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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	word_n	work_n	yield_v	136	3	6.7469	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80158	Responsoria ad erratica pastoris, sive, vindiciæ vindiciarum. Id est, the Shepherds wandrings discovered, in a revindication of the great ordinance of god: Gospel-preachers, and preaching. By way of reply and answer to a late booke, called, The peoples priviledges, and duty guarded against the pulpit and preachers encroachment. And their sober justification and defence of their free and open exposition of scriptures. Published by William Sheppard, Esq. Wherein Mr Sheppards pretended guard, consisting of ten propositions and ten arguments, is examined, and found to wear nothing by wooden swords. And all his replyes to Mr Tho. Halls arguments, and Mr Collinges arguments in his Vindiciæ ministerii, brought against not ordained persons ordinary preaching, are found but cavils and too light. And the truth still maintained, ... in that, preaching and expounding scripture publiquely, are proper acts to gospel officers; not common to all. Wherein also the great question, how far the spirit of God ... dothïnable them to understand scripture is opened, ... / By John Collings, M.A. and preacher of the Gospel in Norwich.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.	1652 (1652)	Wing C5331; Thomason E672_1; ESTC R207127	122,201	185

you have quoted none that doth You have indeed brought in many but you have brought them in against their wils so none of them speake to prove what you would have them viz. that it is any where prophecied that the guift of prophecying and understanding the mysteries of Scripture by an extraordinary inspiration of the Spirit should abound under the Gospel as a standing guift to all the Saints Indeed most of them prove an increase of saving knowledge practicall experimentall knowledge of God and of things necessary to salvation and possibly of the knowledge we are speaking of to be acquired by ordinary means and waies but none of them of such an immediate inspiration to make them understand the Scriptures so as to be able to expound them where they are darke and their sense not obvious Nor doth that place quoted by you Mat. 11.11 prove any thing at all it being clearly to be understood of Christ whom the Jews counted least in the Kingdom of Heaven 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theophyl in loc V. Dickson in Matthaeum You bring another reason p. 9. to prove that the people are to abound in the knowledge of the Scriptures as well as the Preachers Because they have many uses to put it to viz. to teach reprove exhort c. But all this they may doe though they have not so full a knowledge of the Scriptures as Preachers are and ought to have I grant you they are to labour for a knowledge in the Scriptures but not that they are tied by duty to seek for such a measure of knowledge as the Preacher is bound by duty to seek after But I hasten to your fift proposition p. 9 CHAP. VII Wherein is examined Mr. Sheppards 9 10 11 12 13 pages and his fifth proposition scann'd and examined YOur fifth proposition is this That the guift of Scripture exposition and explication being a part of the prophecy which doth now remain in the Church is a guift common to all the people of Christ out of Office as well as the preachers of Christ in Office This now well proved were worth something to your purpose Here are two things to be proved 1. That the guift of Scripture exposition and explanation is a part of the prophecie which doth now remain in the Church 2. That it is a common guift I am mistaken if I finde either of these well proved You should have proved the former first but you begin with the latter and I will follow your method Now to prove that this is a common guift you would prove 1. That all Gods people have Gods Spirit Jam. 4.5 1 Thes 4.8 1 John 4.13 Rom. 8.9 2. That this Spirit is a Spirit of illumination and Scripture interpretation Zech. 12.10 Rom. 8.15 26. Eph. 6.18 3. That by this they are or may be enabled to see the sense and meaning of Scripture 1 Cor. 2 12. Eph. 1.17 18. Jer. 31.33 Psal 40.7 8. Jo. 3.27 Jo. 10.26 Jo 6.44 45. Matth. 13.11 12 16. This is the substance of your ninth and tenth pages For the first I grant it that all Gods people have the Spirit But Sir surely you were not guided by this Spirit in the interpreting of Scripture when to prove this you quote Jam. 4.5 The words are these Doe you think that the Scripture speaketh in vain The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy Is that meant of the holy Spirit of God think you But the thing is truth that all Gods people have the Spirit now let us make it into an argument Whoso hath the Spirit of God hath the guift of expounding Scripture But all Gods people have the Spirit of God Ergo they all have the guift of expounding Scripture Nego majorem Prove Sir your first proposition and to this purpose I suppose you bring your next medium and tell us that this Spirit is a spirit of illumination and Scripture interpretation in all that have it Your Logick is this If the Spirit of God in all that have it be a Spirit of Scripture interpretation then whoso hath the Spirit hath that guift But the Spirit in all that have it is a Spirit of Scripture interpretation Ergo. Nego minorem The latter proposition is false I grant you that the Spirit is a Spirit of interpretation that is that the Spirit can teach a man the meaning of Scripture for all Scripture is dictated by the Spirit and ejusdem est interpretari ac condere Yet let me tell you you are beholden to me for granting you this for you have not proved it You indeed bring in against their wils the Prophet Zachariah proving it Zech. 12.10 where are these words I will poure upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and of supplications c. Here is no mention of the Spirit of Scripture interpretation Your other place is Ro. 8.15 26. v. 15. For you have not received the Spirit of bondage again to fear but you have rceeived the spirit of adoption whereby you cry Abba Father v. 16. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities for we know not what we should pray for as we ought but the Spirit maketh intercession for us c. Here is plain mention made of the spirit of bondage and adoption and supplication and intercession But you are a better Logician then I if you can from any of these Texts prove that the Spirit is a Spirit of Scripture interpretation though the thing be a truth Sir yet I say you are beholding to me to yield it you in arguing Nay I will grant you a little further that the Spirit of God in whomsoever it dwels doth so farre enlighten their minds in the knowledge of the Scriptures that they may see all that is necessary for them to know in reference to their own salvation But this the Spirit doth upon their reading and hearing imprinting a perswasion of the truth of what they heare and read upon their hearts But though I yield you easily that the Spirit is a Spirit of Scripture interpretation yet I deny that it is in all so Nay I shall question whether it be in any so as you would have it I grant you in these 1. That the Spirit doth dwell in all 2. That the Spirit can interpret Scriptures 3. That it doth doe as I have said But I conceive that which you would have is this That the Spirit by a secret immediate work doth enlighten men without the use of ordinary means such as are the understanding the tongues weighing consequences considering coherences c in the understanding of the Scriptures That a Saint quà a Saint by vertue of the Spirit dwelling in him is able to interpret any Scriptures so as to expound them to others This is a false and dangerous opinion I shall therefore spend a few words to shew you what assistance the Spirit of God ordinarily gives men in the opening of Scriptures That the Spirit of God hath by

callings I grant it you You say 1. It is given them for this purpose Right 2. God requires it you say 1 Pet. 4.10 11. You are afraid we should say that that Text is onely to be understood of gifts given to men in office only and to prevent it you tell us it is improbable for 1. You say the Epistle was written to the Jewes amongst whom were as you thinke few regular Churches 2. The words are generall and so not to be restrained I know none sayes that the gift there spoken of is to be restrained to gifts given men in office but it may much be questioned whether the gift there meant be not ●ffice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is the same word there used that is used 1 Tim. 4.14 and there office is plainely meant and then it followeth as stewards of the manifold grace of God now stewards is a name of office applyed to Ministers and officers 1 Cor. 4.1 Tit. 1.7 and no where in Scripture applyed to private persons not in office But you thinke there were no regular Churches amongst the Jewes and so no officers what thinke you Sir of the Elders mentioned 1 Pet. 5.1.2 that are commanded to feed the flocke of God amongst them taking the oversight thereof not by constraint c. Was not that flock of God under the oversight of Elders a Church thinke you But the words are generall and therefore to be understood of all Christians and all gifts Truth Sir if there were no other Scriptures to limit them nor are the words generall neither if Christians have not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there spoken of I passe over your other five reasons as proving nothing that I have denied nor any thing to your purpose CHAP. X. Wherein Mr. Sheppards 18 19 20 21 pages are examined and his tenth position and what he hath said to prove it is scann'd I Am come to the last of your Lifeguard your proposition is this That opening and applying Scriptures by private men one to another in a way of teaching reproofe Admonition Exhortation and comfort hath beene frequently blessed of God for the begetting of grace in the hearers and increase of it Now you have done us the favour to tell us what you meant all this while by expounding for your position I onely am troubled you have not told us when and where and how and that you have used the word frequently For the proofe of this you appeale to experience saying Let the Converters and Believers of our dayes be askt by what meanes they were brought into Christ and what it is that doth edifie them in the faith of Christ and doubtlesse they will tell us of other meanes also with Pulpit-preaching and by other men as well as Preachers in ●ffice To all I answer 1. Sir if you meane that God hath pleased to blesse the private labours of his people in their private exhortings and reprovings of one another to encrease Grace in the soules of his servants I doubt it not 2. But if you meane that God hath frequently blessed the publike preachments of persons not called to that office for the conversion of soules I doubt it very much 3. You make a very ill appeale to the Converts of our age Perverts there are many but the Lord knowes few converts and very strange believers and professors appeale Sir to the old puritanes of formes ages aske them by whom God spake to their hearts 4. Gods making use of such meanes as private admonition or reproofes to convert souls doth not prove that this is Gods great ordinance for that end Waldus the father of the Waldenses confesseth his conversion to a sudden death of a friend or companion of his but yet none will say sudden deaths are Gods ordinance for conversion 5. God may sometimes possibly begin a conviction by a private reproof but I believe he usually makes use of his word Preached to beget Faith and to perfect the work Lastly I say the holy one is not limited but I believe you would be posed to bring me one good instance of a soule converted from a loose and profane life to an humble close strict walking with God in truth and uprightnesse that hath sate under no meanes but onely the Preaching of a private person that not being called to the office of the Ministry hath yet set upon that work it were easie to bring you five hundred that have been perverted I appeale to all the Hereticks and Blasphemers in England all the Antinomians Antiscripturists Antitrinitarians Ranters where did any of you learn your principles was it with constant hearing of the Ministers of the Gospell or rather was it not with hearing men that without any call but upon the pretence of their gifts undertooke to expound the mysteries of God And Sir if three have been this way converted and edified and the soules of five hundred perverted and destroyed what becomes of your proposition or to what purpose is it brought us To your proofes That God doth hold forth those duties and ordinances as meanes of Grace 1 Cor. 7.16 Math. 18.15 16 17. Jam. 5.19 20. we grant it and they are so when performed regularly the woman may be an instrument to save her husband 1 Cor. 7.16 But not by Preaching to him but by carrying her selfe as a believing wife before him Math. 18.15 16 17. proves it concerning private admonition but prove Sir by any Scripture That the teaching Brother not called to the office hath a promise made to him You tell us secondly that it is the word that doth regenerate Yea and this very controversiall truth doublesse you prove by a whole line of quotations Fewer would have served the turne you should lay most proofe Sir upon the weakest cause He that dispenseth it is but the conveyance or conduit-pipe by which it is carried 1 Cor. 3.5 Very much truth doubtlesse but to what purpose doth any speak otherwise hence you infer that the word is the same in a private as in a publike officers mouth True Sir it is so materially but not formally the one speaks with authority the former only as a Scribe the one as Christs messenger particularly entrusted the other without any such commission By this time your conscience checks you that the Apostle Ro. 10.14 15 16. and you in this doctrine are not of a minde and p. 19 20 21. you spend to answer that unanswerable place 1. You grant that the Preaching of the word by a Preacher in office is the speciall and common way of gathering in men to Christ and a singular ordinance for increase of men gained and converted yet this is not the onely meanes nor all the Ordinances of Grace for there are many more that men are to attend upon for their edification and growth in Grace as well as this Sir for this concession we thanke you for we are beholding to any one that in this erroneous age will give an assent to any truth

method in his Answer is laid down AS this sober Gentleman hath in his first Chapter set down his method so I shall doe mine that the Reader may not be tyred with an indistinct discourse 1. I shall examine his second Chapter and shew how far we have or have not granted and how we have granted what he there mentions 2. I shall examine his third Chapter in severall Chapters because it is very long there I shall examine whether he hath sufficiently proved his ten Propositions he layes as a foundation or the eleventh which is his main work I shall examine the last more strictly and reply to his severall pretended arguments for the preaching of such as are not in office 3. I shall examine his fourth Chapter where he answers our arguments and try whether he hath done it sufficiently and reply upon his pretended answers 4. Possibly I may adde some short notes to his last Chapter which is not argumentative but onely practicall and therefore I shall not speak much to it CHAP. II. In which part of the Authors Second chapter is examined and the Preachers grants are opened how far and in what sense they have granted the things mentioned THe Author is pleased in the first Chapter to tell us that he grants these things 1. That that there are or ought to be in all the Churches of Christ regularly constituted certain Officers call'd Preachers Pastors Teachers or Elders c. Eph. 4.11 12. 1 Cor. 12.29 c. 2. That no man may take this office upon him but he that is called and set apart to it according to the Gospel way and rule 1 Tim. 5 22. Lay hands suddenly on no man Acts 13.3 When they had fasted and prayed and layd their hands on them they sent them away So that he grants the Gospel rule for Gospel Preachers to be that those that take the Office upon them should be solemnly set a part by fasting and prayer and imposition of hands 3. That these officers are to be heard acknowledged submitted to honoured maintained countenanced and furthered in their office by the people 1 Thes 5 12. Eph. 5.21 c. 4. The opinion denying the Ministery is as bad as that denying Magistracy and both of them hereticall dangerous and damnable 5. He grants that the publique and common preaching the word by such officers in the Church of Christ is the speciall and great standing Ordinance of Christ now under the Gospel for the gathering to and perfecting Saints in the Church there to continue to the worlds end Eph. 4.11 Matth. 28.20 Rom. 10.17 In the close of that Chapter he saies We utterly dislike therefore all opinions and practises that tend to the derogation or prejudice of this Office Ordinance and Ministry which must be kept safe and untouched and we may not endure it to be spoken against Thus much we grant to the Preachers Sir Although we believe that Gods word doth oblige you to believe and grant this and all this yet we have cause to thank you that in this erronious and backsliding age wherein so many have lost their first love you will thus far bear witnesse to the truth of God This is much more then those that usually handle your subject will grant and I suppose enough if well improved to bring you to close with that other piece of truth against which you contend viz. That Publique preaching the Gospel amongst professors is a proper and distinct act of these Officers In this second Chapter you come to tell us what we have granted you and there you confesse we grant you twelve things 1. That such as have not been brought up in the Vniversity or want School-learning may being duely called become publique preachers This indeed I have granted in my Vindiciae p. 14. but in these terms onely that School-learning is not absolutely necessary So that doubtlesse in cases of necessity when the Church of God cannot be supplied enough with men of learning this may be done and I conceive this is our case and part now for truly I judge a godly gifted man duely ordained and set a part to the work though unlearned in part farre fitter for the Ministry then a prophane wretch though the greatest Scholler in Christendom Quoniam non omnibus forte etiam nullis ea donorum ubertas obtingit a spiritu quae Apostolis Nulla fuerit impietas quod donis illius diminutum est supplere disciplinarum adminiculis Erasmus in Ecclesiast edit Froben An. 1554. Hodie quum plusquam necessaria fit linguarum cognitio Deus hoc tempore mirabile beneficio eas ex tenebris in lucem eruerit sunt nunc magni theologi qui fuoiosè adversas eas declamitent quum certum sit spiritum sanctum eterno elogio hic ornasse linguas colligere promptum est quonum spiritu agantur isti censores Calu. in c. 4. 1. ep ad Corin. Thus far now this is granted Yet withall I cannot think that God would have supplied miraculously the first preachers of the Gospel with an extraordinary gift of tongues and an infallible spirit in expounding Scripture if he had not in his wisdome thought that it was most fitting for one that were learned in the Originall Tongues to interpret Scripture publiquely A second thing you say we grant is That the Ceremony of imposition of hands is not necessary to the making of a Minister But who hath granted this I know not I have not for p. 76. I say that I cannot think it can be omitted without sin in an ordinary orderly ordination and I give reasons for it Nor can I finde any place where my reverend brother Mr. Hall hath been so free in granting away Scripture precepts Nor is it much considerable who hath granted it for who ever they are they have granted away a truth was not theirs to dispose of The word of God hath not granted it and we cannot grant you away any piece of that unlesse you can bring us a ticket under Christs hand Nay you your selfe will not grant it for p. 2. you say they must be set apart Non est minimum iota legis à quo non màgni montes pendent according to the Gospel rule Now what that is you tell us 1 Tim. 5.22 Lay hands suddenly on no man And Acts 13.3 To the Law and to the Testimony Sir Is 8.20 Except we could finde some ordinations there without this we cannot make so slight a businesse of it especially when the holy Ghost layeth so much weight upon it as to expresse the whole ordinance of ordination by it 3. A third thing you say was granted is That such as intend the ministry and are to be set apart for it may as probationers preach publikely and that Batchelours of Art may common-place in a Chappell to the end that their Abilities may be tried and judged This indeed is granted you by Mr. Hall Pulpit guarded p. 4. Vindiciae minist 17. V. Mr.

therefore we must not say the people have it committed to them The Scripture warrants no such speech it is not the language of Canaan And so Sir in point of publique trust they are excluded as much as a Commission to his Excellency to be Lord Deputy of Ireland excludes others from being so though it be not said so in the letter in the Commission In point of use indeed the people are every where included but they are no where called Stewards c. And Sir for your distinction between committed and so committed it is Apocryphall The Scripture no where sayes they are at all committed to them You must remember Sir your own marginall note which you give as p. 29. Vbi lex non distinguit non est distinguendum But to justifie what you say you tell us that it is committed to the people for In 1 Tim. 3.15 the Apostle saies That the whole Church not the Preachers onely is the pillar and ground of truth Any one may see a Non sequitur without spectacles in the Argument And the Gentlemans proofes will none of them prove this nor any thing like unto it In the next place he comes to cleare his point from two Objections He frames one from Revel 2. Where the Epistles are directed to the Angels To this he answers 1. The Angels are taken collectively for the whole Churches as Exod. 4.2 Israel my sonne 2. He sayes It is clearly expressed Revel 2.7 He that hath an eare to beare let him beare what the Spirit sayes to the Churches To which I answer Though I should never have made this objection but think there is very little strength in it and the Gentleman onely brought it forth to try his skill about it yet I conceive his answer is too short in it and seeing the argument is weake it is charity for disputation sake to take its part 1. It will hardly be proved that Angel is taken any where collectively that Israel is is plain enough from more places then one The term Angel I take it is scarce found but to signifie an Angel by nature or by office Now it is absurd to say that all the people in a Church are sent and in office which is the appellative signification of the term To his second answer 2. The Spirit spake to the Churches Although the Epistles were not directed immediately to all the members doubtlesse they were directed to their Officers for their use And thus the holy Ghost speaks to us in speaking to the Jews of old and to the Jews and Christians in the new Testament Else neither the Scriptures of the Old nor the New Testament belong to us He frames a second Objection p. 5. Ob. The Scriptures are committed to the trust and care of Preachers in Office 1 Tim. 1.11 6 20. 2 Tim. 2.14.3.14 Tit. 1.3 The bringing of this objection makes me think he understood by as well that the Scriptures did equally belong to people as Preachers and are alike committed to them For if this objection opposeth the doctrine he must mean by belonging a belonging to them as the Lords Trustees and Commissioners in the Gospel And then his position is false and these Scriptures which he here quotes unanswerably prove it so Yet he pretends to answer Sir As to that text 1 Tim. 3.15 it is a very disputable text who the Apostle calls there the pillar and ground of truth is not so well agreed as you presume Some refer it to Timothy Mr. Calvin saith V. Deodate ad loc V. Leigh ad loc Calv. ad loc V. Leigh ib. Engl. Annot. Elogium hoc ad ministerium verbi pertinet That it is to be applied to the ministry of the Word Others understand it of the living God who is indeed the pillar and ground of truth So Cameron and others To bar either of these interpretations you have nothing but the poor credit of a comma or two and those that knew any thing know that the Originall copies generally are both without stops and distinction of verses For my own part I should understand it of the living God and supply 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who is and then your proofe failes But admit it be the Church it is gratis dictum and not proved that by Church he mean all the individuall members The Papists generally contend that the Church is there called the pillar and ground of truth and thence Bellarmine and Estius V. Estium ad loc V. Calv ad loc Beza ad loc and others conclude it cannot erre It is also disputed whether it be meant of the Church Vniversall or particular Protestants maintain it of the Church Vniversall And doubtlesse if it be to be understood of the Church at all it must be of the Church Vniversall and not of every individuall member of that And then it is to be considered in what sence the Church is the pillar and ground of truth and it is concluded that the Church is the pillar of truth because in that truth is to be found As Proclamations hang upon pillars so the Church is the Pillar of truth but Sir you prove nothing if you doe not prove that the Individuall members of the Church are speaking pillars which will be an hard task for you Indeed they should be pillars of truth to beare the Law of the Lord upon their hearts and conversations And they are as you say from Iude 3. to contend for the faith But the question is whether God hath committed the doctrine of faith to them to preach No such thing is proved from that text in Timothy nor that in Iude neither And in earnest Sir if every gifted brother be to be a pillar of truth truth hath lost its uniformity Many of them have been pillars upon which the divell hath hung all the errors and blasphemies of former times not one of many a pillar of truth In short I shall dispatch your first proposition granting you that the Scriptures belong to all to be exercised in them to search and examine them and their own hearts by them to read in them and meditate in them day and night But they doe not belong to all to preach them publikely CHAP. V. Wherein the sixth and seventh pages are examined and the Authours third proposition is scanned and his proofe of it enquired into c. FOr your second proposition viz. That the people as well as the preachers are to read and study the Scriptures I grant it you to be a t●uth and wish it may be practised But it concludes nothing to the businesse in hand unlesse you will conclude thus They that are to read and study the Scriptures are also to expound and preach them That is denied Your third proposition is p. 6. That the exposition of Scripture lying in the opening of the true sense of the words and sayings thereof and the applying of them in that sense to them that heare it and read it as to the right use

God This proposition now is so mollified that I know not how to touch it First it is minced with are or may be who can deny that so long as there is an Almighty God Then it is minced with more or lesse it were hard else if there should be any Saint that should not be able to tell the meaning of one line in Scripture Then I meet with the term Scriptures which I know not whether I should understand it of the Scriptures generally or so much of Scripture as is necessary for them to know in order to salvation If in the latter sense it is true enough if in the former sense the Author will understand it still he will save himselfe in the arms of his are or may be or else of his more or lesse But to prove this he brings 1 Cor. 2.12 onely he feares it will be objected against How he hath warded it we will consider by and by onely by the way I could have told him of a fitter place to prove this proposition which would have put it past disputing it is that Mark 10.27 With men it is impossible but not with God for with God all things are possible This proves his may be But let us heare what he concludes from 1 Cor. 2.12 the words I quoted before if he can argue from hence at all it must be thus Those which have received the Spirit which is of God that they might know the things freely given them of God those have the Spirit given them to interpret Scriptures But the Saints have received the Spirit which is of God that they might know the things which are freely given them of God Ergo. Num igitur ex his concludemus eos qui Spiritum Christi habent omnia noss● fatebimur sed quadantenus ut a deo condita sunt ad ejus honorem faciunt ad nostram salutem conducunt c. P. Martyr ad loc V. Pareum ad loc The Minor is unquestionably true but the Major is false and is sick of that fallacy that Logicians call Fallacia a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter The Spirit doth not teach all Saints all things that are freely given them of God Many Saints doe not know they are justified or sanctified that Christ or Heaven is theirs and yet are reall Saints and the text saith Mr. Leigh is to be understood chiefly of that knowledge All that the text proves is this that the Saints may know by the Spirit the things freely given them of God It doth not prove that they doe know all of them the things given them of God Nor that they doe know all the things given them of God But a word more Sir before you and I part with this text Doth not this text look as if it were to be understood of a reflex knowledge such a knowledge by which a man knows that he knows The originall word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and doth signifie a certain and infallible knowledge so Col. 3.24 Col. 4.1 and if it so signifie here you doe ill to apply it to a direct knowledge The words seem to argue such a knowledge as is infallible and thus surely every Saint doth not know the Scriptures I perceive you were afraid we should tell you that the things here spoken of are those good things which God hath prepared for them tha● love him So Pareus understands it as indeed the coherence tell you v. 9. and the knowledge spoken of an infallible perswasion of our right unto them And to defend your selfe you tell us That these things cannot be revealed to the soule but in and by the Revelation of the G●spel and word of God I am glad to heare you of that mind that God hath grounded you in his truth against Enthusiasmes But sir I must tell you they may be known to us by the hearing of the word of God opened to us and preached to us and usually are so And therefore it will not follow that a Christian in order to his knowledge of them must have in himselfe the spirit of interpretation You further tell us That the promises are the things freely given us of God some of them at least 2 Pet. 1.20 Truth Sir and the Spirit must make us to know that these promises belong to us but doth it therefore follow that every Christian must have an ability to open all the Scriptures Many of the promises those especially of greatest concernment are so plainly written that he that runs may read and understand them Some of the promises indeed are darker Nor doe I think every Christian hath an ability to understand all the promises fully but God is pleased to enable his Saints to understand the promises so many of them and so far as they are necessarily to be understood in order to his salvation But we Sir that are as much versed I believe and something more then those not in the Ministry with the workings of Christians spirits finde it by experience that Gods dearest Saints oft times put strange interpretations upon the promises which is evidence enough that the Spirit doth not enable all Saints to know the true meaning of them But I return again to the 11. and 12. pages Having laid down for a position that all the Saints have a seminall vertue enabling them to expound Scriptures you come to enquire the cause why it doth not appeare and you are pleased to charge it upon us saying The Preachers preach and the people believe there is no such power in them nor to be exercised by them and therefore the peopl● never look after it Upon this you dilate p. 12 13. shewing how gifts are improved by exercise and lost by neglect of it a thing no one ever denied that I know And there you take upon you to give us a fatherly advice Let the Preachers tell the people there is such a seed in them and presse upon them the necessity of improving it To all this impertinent discourse I shall answer briefly That the Preachers are charged falsely we doe desire all that fear God to stir up the guift that is in them to be much in reading and studying of the Scriptures to meditate upon them to instruct their families out of them Indeed we doe not presse them to preach for if you mean by guift 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the office in which sence the Apostle useth it 1 Tim. 4 14 we believe according to that Scripture that that guift is given them by the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery That is that by ordination they are impowred to the exercise of that Office But you tell us That such as have this fire within them cannot well forbeare for it is like new wine or materiall fire within them which cannot be kept in but will break forth Amos 3.8 Acts 4.20 Jer. 20.8 9. Psal 39.2 Joh. 1 41 45. Jo. 4.28 29 Job 32.19 20. Severall Scriptures but strangely applied

ought to expound Scripture to themselves and one to another This you prove by six Reasons which I will examine apart 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith the Proverb We have had this said over and over again it was the substance of the seventh proposition Let us see if it be better proved here 1. Your first reason is because the Se●●●ure by exposition is made more usefull and profitable This doth not prove sir that therefore they ought to expound it to themselves or one to another This proves indeed that it ought to be expounded to them 2. Your second reason because they are to be alwaies teaching reproving comforting one another and this cannot be done without expounding c. How often shall I answer this crambe 1. This may be done by applying to themselves and others plaine and easie Scriptures for which there needs no expounding 2. By applying to themselves and others the sound interpretation of those that God hath call'd to that office to interpret his will 3. Thirdly you say Every private Christian hath in him a guift more or lesse and this is not to be hid To prove that they have a guift of Scripture interpretation you bring again 1 Cor. 12 17. I am sick of this tautologizing this is the third time I have met with this but I must look I see instead of strength of arguments for to be served with a flood of words I answer again you have not proved they have all a guift 2. If they had they must be called to the exercise or else every Souldier that hath the gift of warlike prudence might be a Colonell 4. They should covet more then this you say viz. to prophecy 1 Cor. 14.1 5. and to speak with Tongues too v. 5. They are as much bound to one as the other But Sir it was their duty to covet those gifts because then they were not ceased but not ours alike now the like may be said to that place Num. 11 29. Prophecy was an extraordinary gift of God then in date now ceased Moses did not wish they were all Priests 5. Your fifth reason is the same with the fourth you say All the people of God as well as the Preachers are commanded to labour for the highest degree of this guift and wherfore are they to labour for it if not to use it when attain'd 1 Cor. 14.1 39. 1 C r. 12 31. 1 Cor. 14.20 1. The substance of this was answered before 2. The second as wel as upon which all your strength lieth is not proved but I perceive you take great paines to prove that which none denies You say Io. 4 39. Page 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I suppose you meane Io. 5.39 We are commanded to search the Scripturet and Mr. Loigh te's you it is a metaphor taken from them that dig in mines and if so it noteth foure things 1. The breaking in pieces of the earth 2. The taking out the precious matter 3. The carefull laying of it up 4. The employing it to the use to which it serveth whence you infer p. 17. That it is the duty of all Christians industriously to study the word of God to breake it in pieces in his meditations draw and take out the spirituall sense and truths thereof carefully to lay up these in his soule and then bring them forth upon occasion for the profit of others and so no doubt it is Psal 1.2 Col. 3.16 Acts 17.11 Deut. 6.7 Mat. 13.51 Psal 119.11 Nihil necesse est ut similitudo aut Analogia quadret per omnia Erasmus de rat conc 428. To your foure particulars and your inference I answer shortly 1. I perceive you are good at making similitudes run on foure feet contrary to the knowne maxime I shall minde you of a rule in Divinity Theologia parabolica non est argumentativa and a Latin Proverb Similia ad pompam non ad pugnam 2. You are out in your metaphor for usually those that dig in the Mine are neither they that lay up the oare nor Mint it nor employ it Similitudo legitur proverbiorum 11. Monile aureum in naribus porci est mulier formosa magnum sane disc●imen inter porcū mulierem Hyperius de rat studii Theol. l. 2. c. 19. Ob. 5. 3. The care is to be purified in the furnace too and to receive a stampe before it be currant but Gods word is purified seven times 4. I grant all you say to be a Christians duty but what Christians and when and how this is the Question he that digs in the Mine must have a spade Christians must have gifts to doe it with and doe it by meanes and then imploy it according to the rule as the righteous man Psal 1.2 as the Colossians ch 3.16 and the Bereans Acts 17.11 in their families Deut. 6.7 6. You adde By this meanes especially Christians may as salt season themselves and others keepe them from corruption and destruction and they and their workes made savoury to God and good men and as a candle they will give light to all the family of God about them Math. 5.13 14 15. By this meanes what meanes by unlearned mens expositions of Scripture Saint Peter thought otherwise for he sayes they wil wrest them to their own destruction 1 Pet. 3.16 there is no speaking against experience Sir we have seen this a meanes to corrupt and pervert others to draw men off from Ordinances and duties and to a contempt of the messengers of the Gospell and meanes of grace instead of giving light they have beene like thieves in the candle eclipsing the light of truth and holinesse a little more time will convince you Sir of your mistake in this surely a diligent attendance upon the preaching of the Gospell by Christs commission officers were a better meanes to these ends I am now come to your ninth position That those that have received any speciall gift of prophecy or Scripture exposition are to exercise and use it so as may be of most advantage to the Church Primò termi ni axiomatis explicandisunt Chappell in Meth. conc 133. Your not opening your proposition makes you speak very darkly and puts me to much trouble you should have told us 1. What you meane by gift of prophecy 2. Who are those that have that same speciall gift 1. If you meane by gift office as the Apostle hath it 1 Tim. 4.14 it is granted but then it makes nothing to your purpose 2. For the guift of prophecy none hath it now 3. For the gift of expounding Scripture those that have it are bound to exercise it in their place and calling otherwise it cannot be for Gods glory or the Churches good But I suppose your meaning is That there are some not in office that have an ability to expound Scripture and they are bound to use it as shall be most advantagious to the Church Keeping the rules of Gods word and the bounds of their

of God and to requite you we grant you that Preaching of officers is not the only means of edification which is all you say But you conceive that that place Ro. 10 13 14 15. is mistaken and therefore you have favoured us with a kinde of loose paraphrase p. 19 20. But Sir to keep you close to the businesse what sending is there meant the Apostle plainely sayes how shall they preach except they be sent your paraphrase hath not touched this passage I suppose you were shy of it wittingly for this is the onely passage in the Text that galleth you You tell us negatively p. 20. That it is not to be taken in a literall and restrained sence for then these things would follow 1. That by hearing the Scriptures read by a Preacher in office men may I suppose you would say may not be brought to believe But you think men may be converted by reading or hearing them read by any 2. That men are not brought into or nourished in the faith of the Gospell by reading Scriptures Epistles good bookes conferences c. 3. That it is as impossible for a man to have Faith without hearing a called Preacher as to be saved without Faith or to have Faith without the word of God It is easier to say what is not meant then what is but p. 21. you tell us That the Text is cleare enough that by Preachers sent is meant any one that God by his providence shall send to tell men the glad newes of the Gospell by the subsequent words v. 15. and the two Texts Nahum 1.15 Es 52.7 2. Pag. 20. You tell us that when a gifted brother doth preach the doctrine of the Apostles and prophets the hearers heare the Apostles and prophets who were preachers sent 3. If the Scripture it self without any preacher speak then it may be heard without any other preacher then he that first preacht it If the workes of God have a voyce and speake as they have and doe preach Psal 19.1 2 3. Micah 6 9. If the works of men speake as Heb. 11.4 Abel being dead yet speaketh that is teacheth the world to imitate him how much more then may Gods word be said to speake 4. That the Apostles did preach by their writings as well as by their voyce and speech This is the substance of all you say over and over again it comes to this little pittance of truth that preaching is taken in a proper and in a figurative sense that a man may be sent providentially as well as authoritatively but Sir 1. We will allow that gifted brethren may Preach as the workes of God are said to preach Psal 19.1 2 3. Micah 6.9 And as dead Abel spake but Sir these preachers were not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gods heralds as those spoken of Rom. 10. 2. Gods word Sir doth speake but it doth not preach in Scripture phrase nor is its speaking the ordinary meanes of God to convert soules to Christ Mr. Perkins tels you there is a difference betweene reading and preaching a Sermon Mr. Burroughes in his Gospel-worship saith the latter is under a more speciall appointment for conversion of soules then the other God hath said Heare and your soules shall live Not Read and your soules shall live though we grant reading to be a duty and of singular use 3. For your new Nonneno of second hand hearing the Scripture allowes no such distinction that 's but a cheat put upon the reader will not any one thinke him mad that should interpret Faith comes by hearing that is by reading and how shall they preach that is how shall the Scriptures preach except they be sent 4. By the same foppish fancy I would avoid all places of Scripture that plead either for preaching or hearing Go preach and baptize what is the meaning of that go preach by an holy life and baptize or go write bookes and baptize but having shewed you the folly of your quibles I come to your answer As you cannot avoid the strength of this place by distinguishing of preaching the preaching there meant being the preaching of words not of workes and writings and dead letters but the preaching of them that make reports of God to the soule v. 16. those that have feet and bring glad tidings of peace not the Gospells preaching but the preaching of the Gospell v. 16. such a preaching as hath a sound goe with it v. 18. and correlates to hearing So neither can you avoid it by distinguishing upon sending I demand what sending is meant you tell me a providentiall sending and this is cleare enough by these subsequent words v. 15. Nahum 1.15 Es 52.7 So say the Socinians and Erastians but it is a miserable shift 1. The Originall word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies to send as an embassadour saith A lapide to send with power and authority saith Chamier 2. But secondly I am at a losse to understand this blind notion of a Providentiall sending when may a man be said to be Providentially sent And indeed it hath posed better heads then mine to fadome this Notion how shall one know if he be providentially sent will you say if God hath furnished him with gifts and he meets with an opportunity to exercise them then a Blasphemer may be a sent preacher for he is providentially sent the providence of God permitting him to play his game but surely the Apostle never meant such a sending as might be from the Devill directly and from God onely permissively yet such are providentially sent but I have cleared this Text from this Erastian glosse in my Vindiciae Ministerii p. 42 43 44 45. 3. Thirdly let us see what sense you have made of the Apostles words by your glosse how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard that is either by the writings of good men or by reading of the Scriptures or by considering the workes of God or by making use of the Examples of dead Saints for this four-fold hearing you will have and how shall they heare without a preacher that is how shall they read the Scriptures if they have no Scriptures to reade how shall they consider the workes of God if they have none to consider how shall they read good bookes if none write any how shall they imitate such men as Abel if there be none to imitate And how shall they preach except they be sent that is how shall any man speake to another if he doth not come where he is Sir I am of the minde the spirit never guided you in this interpretation by which you have justled out the two great ordinances of the Gospell Preaching and hearing and have pleaded faire for the Papists who tell us of their pictures preaching and making lay-men sermons But fourthly 4. Sir doe you thinke the Apostles were no more then providentially sent had Isaias no more thinke you nor the 70 any more V A fuller answer in Gillespies

This the Author of the aforesaid Booke proves because it is not said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he notes from Scaliger is determinative But to this third answer Gillespy Miscell Qu. p. 75. Filodexter Transilvanus p. 30. Rutherford due Right p. 302. that women propophetesses might prophecy publikely so it could not be meant of them for they might speake publikly So said the Brownists so saith Chillenden But it is answered by Gillespy Miscell Quest p. 75. by Mr. Rutherford p. 302. of his due right of Presbytery by Filodexter Transylvanus in the Book before named p. 30. that it cannot be proved that women prophetesses prophesied publikely in Gospell Churches nor do any Scriptures prove it see what they say severally to this cavill 4. It is answered by Mr. Rutherford that the Lawes of France forbidding women to fit on the Throne of France doth not therefore prove every Frenchman may To this now this Gentleman replies That the law forbidding women doth tolerate any man that hath right and so our gifted Brother hath This is a begging the question we question whether they have right or no you prove if they have right they may that is if they have right they have right Pretty Logick 5. To what you say that the forbidding certaine persons to enter into the Congregation Deut 23. allowes all other to enter I deny that it allowes indeed that all that are not forbidden there nor any where else may but not that all not there forbidden may for all the heathen and all uncleane persons are not forbidden there yet it is plaine from other places they might not enter 6. Lastly I answer your comparison halts there is no paralell betwixt undertaking the worke of preaching and entring the congregation entring the Congregation was a thing common a priviledge that nothing but a prohibition could debar them from preaching is a publike act of office to which a man must have a call and mission or else he can have no warrant to his worke CHAP. XIV In which Mr. Sheppards fifth Argument is brought to the Touch-stone of truth and found Brasse not concluding what he would have I Am come to your fifth maine argument And that is drawne from an induction of particular examples That it hath been usually so done and never disallowed but rather approved by God and good men To this purpose you bring us the instance of the Elders Num. 11.23 24 25. Saul 1 Sam. 5.10 Noah 2 Pet. 2.5 Jehosaphat 2 Chron. 19.6 7. Stephen Acts 7. the 70. Luke 10.1 Simeon Lu. 2.25 26. Iob and his friends Anna Lu. 2.36 38. Apollos Acts 24.25 the primitive Christians 1 Cor. 14.26 Paul Acts 29.20 22. Scribes Pharises and Lawyers Those Paul speakes of Phil. 1.18 the custome of the Jewes Acts 13.6 Christ himselfe Lu. 2.42 Dr. Seaman in his answer to Chillenden prefixt to his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pulpit guarded p. 46 47 48 c. To this argument and every piece of it is already enough said by learned Doctor Seaman the Author of Lay preaching unmarked p. 11.12 13 14 15 16 c. Mr. Hall in his Pulpit guarded Mr. Ferriby in his lawfull preacher p. 33 34 36 37. c. The Author of Church members set in joynt p. 14.15 16 17 18 19 20 c. Mr. Rutherford in his due right Lay-preaching unmaskt p. 11. 12 13 14. Mr. Ferriby in his lawfull preacher 33. c. p. 281. 282 283. and in his peaceable plea 255. Mr. Gillespy in his Miscell questions p. 66. 67 c. One would thinke here have beene replies enough to stop the scolding tongue of this Argument But to be short your argument lies thus What hath been usually done and never disallowed but approved by God and good men may be lawfully done Granted But gifted men meerely gifted have usually preach'● and expounded Scripture being in no office and that in a constituted Gospell Church publikely and ordinarily Ergo. 1. This proposition is false enough 1. You must prove that these men were meerly gifted as Christians are now gifted and not in office nor extraordinarily inspired Your instances of the Elders Num 11.23 24 25. of Saul 1 Sam. 5.10 of Stephen of Anna of Apollos of Paul of the Scribes and Pharisees of Christ come short here The Elders had the extraordinary gift of prophecy Num 11.23 so had Saul and never after so 1 Sam. 5.10 Stephen was ordained and full of the holy Ghost Anna was a prophetesse Apollos a Minister Paul had received the holy Ghost Acts 9. The Scribes and Pharises sate in Moses chaire saith our Saviour and surely Christ himselfe was some thing more then a gifted Brother 2. Secondly you must prove they expounded and applied Scripture prove this concerning Eldad and Medad or Saul or Noah or Iobs friends or Anna. 3. Thirdly You must prove they did it in a constituted settled Church in which were publike officers prove this of Noah of Saul of the primitive Christians that were scattered Acts 8. 4. Fourthly you must prove they did it ordinarily and constantly prove this of Saul of Eldad and Medad of those scattered Christians Acts 8. Thus you see Sir what your argument comes to not one instance holds to your case you may see fuller answers to them in the Bookes which I before cited when you have disproved them you may expect an answer from them or me For Mr. Simons or Mr. Marston whose Letters you insert their words are no Oracles and they have neither answered what hath been said against it nor yet favoured us with any arguments for it Magisteriall placets or friendly Commendams are worth little to prove a truth unlesse you can assure us that they are in them guided by an infallible Spirit which I believe they will hardly say they are they are Gentlemen I know not they may be learned and holy but as I take it there be ten for one as learned and holy are of another mind you are beholden to them for their Letters but I thinke the truth of God and the Gospell of Christ is not much Page 35. In the close of this argument you would know What is the difference betweene Preaching and Orations and common placings speeches Sermons and exhortations O Sir take heed of paralelling the great ordinance of God to an Oration or a Speech this is a very unsavoury paralell to come from one who seemes to have so much of the feare of God dwelling in him as you have given the world cause to hope you have from some sober passages in your Booke why doe you not as well say what is the difference betweene the word of the living God and a good Sermon-book Betweene Reading the Scriptures and reading a godly booke yet Luther was wont to say he would burne his bookes if he thought any one would make that use of them Suppose there be not a materiall difference but

assemblies by faithfull men who shall be able to teach others and to whom such things shall be committed by Timothies and Pauls those things private persons to whom such things are so committed according to Scripture-warrant Vindiciae ministerii p. 38. ought not in publique so to communicate But the truths of the Gospell are such as according to Scripture-warrant are onely to be communicated to others by such as being faithfull and able to teach others and have those things committed to them by Timothies and private persons are not such to whom these things are so committed Ergo. To prove the Major I instanced in 2 Tim. 2.2 and shewed the force of it p. 40. I alluded to that place Mal. 2.7 but not as a proofe on which I much insisted My brother Hall hath not instanced this Argument in his first Edition of his Pulpit-guard The other Editions I have not Now let us see if you have sufficiently answered this Argument which is chiefly founded on 1 Tim. 2.2 though 1 Tim. 1.11.18.6.20 Titus 1.3 prove a part of it 1. You answer by way of concession telling us that you grant such an officer as a preaching Minister and tell us that they are more eminent preachers And something is undoubtedly committed to and required of them as to the preservation and promulgation of the Word of God over and above what is required of and committed to men out of office 1. They are bound to it ex officio by their office others not 2. They are bound to doe it more lively and vigorously then others Ro. 10.14 Es 40.9 Es 48.1 Ro. 9.27 Mat. 3.3 Jo. 7.37 38. 3. They may preach with authority Titus 2.15 2 Thes 3.6 1 Tim. 5.2 4. They may doe it with continuance they may make it their calling and whole worke 2 Tim. 4.2 1 Tim. 5.17 1 Thes 5.12 1 Tim. 3 4. 5. They are to assume the whole office to administer the seales also But you say secondly that the Texts are not exclusive but private men may doe it too Thirdly you spend a great deale of time and paper to vindicate that text Mal. 2.7 p. 54 55. and those places Mat. 28.19 Mar. 16.15 Having thus analysed your answer in the next place let me come to examine the strength of it 1. From what you have granted us I gather 1. That there are to be some Preachers in office and to these onely it belongs to administer the Sacraments and these are onely to preach authoritatively vigorously ex officio constantly making it their work This is all a great truth then it seems 2. That for guifted brethren they may doe it or they may let it alone it is but an act of liberty in them yet you told us before it was their duty 3. They may doe it coldly and poorly and lazily for the preacher is onely bound to doe it vigorously and lively p. 52. and earnestly 4. They can onely preach precariously for they have no authority and cannot do it authoritatively Titus 2.15 5. They must not make it their whole work 1. Surely our guifted brethren will give you little thanks for your concessions 2. Surely all people that are in their right wits will take heed of hearing these guifted brethren that at the most can but preach coldly and lazily without authority or any vigour without due meditation and study Surely the countenance and blessing of God is most likely to follow those that come in the name of God and with his authority and can command in the Lords name But you say that the Texts are not exclusive though they doe plainly hint that those that preach the Gospell should have it committed to them yet you think that some may preach that have it not committed and so you would make my argument a fallacy à dicto secundum quid ad dictum fimpliciter But sir I reply upon you 1. Neither are any Scriptures exclusive in so many words that you bring to prove that they may not administer the Sacraments and that they may not preach with authority nor make it their work yet this you grant us and upon good grounds 2. What the Scriptures doe not say that none may doe in the worship of God for we must not adde to Scriptures But the Scriptures although they say preachers in office may and ought to preach to others yet no where say that the guifted brethren may doe it Ergo. The Scripture plainely sayes that those that teach others must not onely be able and faithfull but must have the Scriptures committed to them See your own rule p. 45. Generaliter dictum generaliter intelligendum this Sir is exclusive except you can bring another Scripture that proves they may teach others though they have not those things committed to them And besides the Apostle plainely speakes de re of the thing not de modo of the manner of performance the Apostle sayes teach others you put in authoritatively vigorously c. Bring us a Scripture that sayes that gifted brethren may teach others publikely for that is plainly meant there if you cannot this Text is proofe enough against you Your similitudes prove nothing By your answer I would infer that all the Acts of Church officers may be done by private persons because the Scriptures that say they ought to doe them doe not say others ought not The third part of your answer lies in a vindication of that Text Mal. 2.7 The Priests lips should preserve knowledge and the people should require the Law at his mouth To this you answer 1. Critically telling us the words are better read the Priests lips did preserve knowledge c. and so some read them 2. That it is not exclusive 3. That the case of people under the Law and Gospell differ For my own part I was aware of your last answer and therefore did not insist upon that place yet now you have brought it upon the stage let me take its part a little and see if you have done it no wrong Whereas you say that those words Mal. 2.7 which we translate The Priests lips shall preserve knowledge are read by some The Priests lips did preserve knowledge and this reading best agrees with the coherence of the words antecedent and subsequent I answer 1. It is true Piscator doth so translate it and make the sense what you say but he is the onely man I finde doing it Tremellius and Calvin and Gualter and Ribera and Oecolampadius the Septuagint St. Hierom. Our late Annotations c. Translate it shall or should and this is agreeable to Haggai 2.12 which St. Hierome quotes as paralell Thus saith the Lord of hosts aske the Priests concerning the Law c. So that you see for one authority for you we have found seven against you But let us enquire the Hebrew 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The word is there in the future tence and properly to be translated shall or will or should and although it be

a truth that the Hebrewes doe sometimes confound tenses and we often translate their future tense by the preterperfect yet with submission to those more learned and criticall in that language I conceive it should not be so translated except the sense inforceth it the primary and proper signification being otherwise 3. Neither doe I see such a necessity for the coherence sake so to translate it there V. Our Annot. for might not the Prophet as well set out their impiety by their declination from their duty as well as from the piety of the Priests formerly 4. Nay under favour Sir the coherence is both against you and Piscator too the very next words are for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts now let any judicious man judge whether the sense be better as you would have it thus For the Priests lips did keep knowledge and they did seeke the Law at his mouth for he is the Angell of the Lord of hosts or as we read it For the Priests lips should preserve knowledge and they should seeke the Law at his mouth For he is the Angell of the Lord of hosts or the messenger of the Lord of hosts for the same word signifies both this is the reason given why the people should enquire the interpretation of the Law at his mouth because he is the Messenger he is one authorized and sent and appointed by God to open the Law 5. But Fifthly suppose we admit your reading it alters not the case at all for you grant that the Priests lips did keep knowledge and the people did require the Law at his mouth and this in the purer state of the Jewish Church and this was a piece of their sinne that they were deviated from this practise this is as much as we desire surely the Jewish Church order was not altered but by their corruption in Malachies time if we take your sense it amounts to this In the old time The Priests lips did preserve knowledge and they did require the law at his mouth who was the messenger of the Lord of hosts But now the Priests are ignorant and the people profane they care for no Priests but thinke themselves best able to interpret the Law of the Lord for they were deviated as well as the Priests v. 11.12 13 14 15 16. Have not you warded this Text well think you Sir It is as if we should say of England In the Prelates times the Ministers of the Lord Jesus preached plainely and powerfully and constantly they preached Law and Gospell reproofes and exhortations and the people heard the word of God diligently and reverently and were content to teach their families and to repeat Sermons and then the power of godlinesse encreased and Christians kept in the Vnity of the spirit and the bond of peace and walkt humbly with God and hated Arminian and Socinian and familisticall Errors and Blasphemies and were kept under an aw of Ordinances But now many Ministers are come to preach notions and allegories and whimzies to read Sermons instead of preaching to lay aside preaching duty and reproofe and to preach nothing but priviledges and mysteries and nonsensicall notions and to preach once a fortnight And the people they are come to neglect and despise Ordinances to thinke themselves as much preachers as the Ministers and to know as much as they can tell them and hence they are puft up with pride and are taken in the snare of the Devill and are continually rending and dividing one from another and running into error and blasphemies and the whole Nation of professors almost is turn'd Arminian Socinian or Familisticall You have put the interpretation Sir upon the Prophets words I have to strengthen our argument helpt you with a parallell Quam bene conveniunt To your second answer in which you point us to Deodate for a note but you have abused him for he hath never a note upon the words you quote I grant you the words onely held to us Analogically but where is the Analogy if not here as the Priests were the onely ordinary persons that had the knowledge of the Law betrusted to them to communicate it to others and the people were not to go to seeke it at an ordinary Jewes mouth but at the publike officers mouth so the Ministers of the Gospell are the only ordinary persons under the Gospell that have the Gospell committed to them to teach others out of it and Gospell Christians are not to require the opening of those Mysteries at one anothers mouthes but at theirs But you tell us thirdly the Case is otherwise under the Law and Gospell I grant you all you say there onely I do not finde that Is 61.8 the people of God are called Priests nor doe I believe that all people generally come under those promises you mention onely Saints and I turne your argument upon your selfe thus If under the Gospell people be generally more full of knowledge then under the Law then they had need have more eminent able teachers that should give them strong meat And these Sir had need be such as are able to search the deeps of Scripture to dive into the hidden mysteries Besides as knowledge encreaseth so in some wantonnesse will encrease and the Gospell preachers had need be such as shall be able to oppose those that gainesay their doctrine in opposing those that contradict a truth Those that maintaine a dispute either for a truth or for an errour had need have some more abilities then unlearned gifted brethren A late experience of this I could tell you in the gathered company at Bury where were many thought themselves able enough to Preach but being challenged by the Reverend pastor of the Presbyterian Church to dispute a point which they might have beene well versed in for I believe the persons have been studying it and practising it these seven years whether the Ministers of England be true Ministers they were glad to send for some of their Norfolk Brethren for helpe and some of the gifted brethren went and when they returned being miserably bafled by their owne confession they said they wanted a Scholler yet I suppose they thought they had the spirit of God but God will convince men learning is his Ordinance to enable men both to expound Scripture and defend his truth In the last place you come to the Commission Math. 28.19 Mar. 16.15 From which both my Brother Hall and my selfe urged you to say 1. That the word may be read go make disciples Jo. 4.1 2. There is no negative Clause in it 3. In common reason it doth not exclude others and to the last purpose you serve us with our usuall fare Similitudes instead of proofes it is for want of better Arguments sure Sir 4. You tell us the people have a commission to teach 5. That the native sense of the place seems only an enlargement of the former commission Mat. 10.1 2. Lu 10.1 2. 6. That the force of