COVNTERPOYSON CONSIDERATIONS touching the poynts in difference between the godly ministers and people of the Church of England and the seduced brethen of the Separation ARGVMENTS That the best assemblies of the present Church of England are true visible Churches That the Preachers in the best assemblies of Engl. are true ministers of Christ. Mr BERNARDS book intituled The SEPARATISTS SCHISME Mr CRASHAWES Questions propounded in his Sermon preached at the Crosse. Examined and Answered by HENRY AINSWORTH Lord God the strength of my saluation couer thou my head in the Day of battel Psal. 140.7 RIGHT RIGHT Printed in the yeare 1642. A fore-speech to the Christian reader THE truth and church of God by multitude of enemies hath euer been dâ—sgraced and troden down in the world that many which haue seemed to loue and seek after it haue stumbled at the reproch oppotision of the same Yet the godly wise haue vnderstood discerned things that differ It is a great help vnto the weak and simple when the deceits and snares wherewith the adversarie seeketh to destroy the sowl are oâ—enly discouered by the light of Gods word and for this cause haue I endeauoured according to the measure of knowledge and grace giuen vnto me to make answer vnto such reasons cauils and calumniations as are giuen out against that part of the truth which this church witnesseth vnto the world touching our separation from the Church of Engl. the Considerations Arguments first answered were written by Mr Spr a Minister of Glocestershire in them as I suppose the summ and weight of that which may be sayd for that church is comprised Mr Bernards booke hath rather shew then weight of reason as the iudicious reader may perceiue and seemeth to be penned by him rather for disgrace of others then defence of themselues But no better fruit can be exspected from such as rebel against the light which themselues once seemed to regard Mr Crashawes questions are rather to stumble at then to direct the ignorant as hauing neyther weight of argument against vs nor for themselues Yet as by al these meanes the truth is oppugned so by all contrary good meanes it should be defended that wisdome may be iustified of all her children and others left without excuse How weak and insufficient the aduersaries reasons are in partiular the answers vnto them more parâ—icularly will shew Here I will briefly obserue some generall things whereby falshood endeavoureth to vphold it selfe and how it may by the prudente be discried Vntruth hatâ— sought to preuayl 1. By perseâ—uting such as haue spoken against or forsaken her iniquitie iniquitie This the blood of Gods martyrs shed in all ages proclaimeth vnto all men And thus haue the chief Pastors of the Church of England dealt with Christs lambs in these our dayes For hauing gotten into their hands the sword of the Magistrate they there with haue smitten such as with the word the sword of the spirit they could not conuince In which they fulfill the measure of their Fathers for so haue the Papall Prelates vsed to feed their flocks 2. By blaspheming and preaching against the faith witnesses therof For they that hold forth the truth are exposed to the reproch venim of the tongue and many vniust calumniations come forth against their persons especially the principall of them whom evill minded men doe most maligne Also the cause it selfe is often wronged whiles the truth thereof and reasons that vphold it are svâ—pressed arguments feighned and confuted which wer neuer made or otherwise made then the aduersaries pretend and sometimes such articles and errors imputed as from which it is altogether free How others heretofore haue caried themselues this way all records shew how men at this day haue dealt with vs and the truth which we imbrace many pulpits in Engl. can witnesse besides priuate calumnies innumerable and some publicke pamphletes The stinch of their reprochfull mouthes hath caused many to distast the sweet sauour of the Gospell and caused also for a while a dislike in sundry of vs till God in mercy visited and saued vs from the deceitfull tongue 3. Yet is not this yenough but men seek to bear down the truth by writing against and to the defamation of the same with all exquisite cunning and frawd to disgrace it and by plausible reasons to perswade vnto error If any would see this let the generall arguments vsed at this day against vs consonant and agreable to the reasons of Papists other ancient adversaries of the Gospel be obserued 1. The Papists haue continually exclaimed against them for leauing their mother the ch of Rome that bare them crying out the Church the Church the Catholike church and saying that Luther and all the pack of their first fathers were children of their mother the Catholike Church and are gone out from them And when the Protestants obiected her sinns for which they left her it was pleaded againe will ye forsake your mother because shee wanteth perfect bewty or because there is some deformity in her c Moreouer they would allege to proue them schismatiks how in that ch thâ—y had been regenerated and made hâ—r citezens and members by baptisme c that from her they had their first faith and knowledge yea euen the Bible it selfe which treasure their church euer had the custody of and many such like These are the mayn reasons obiected to vs at this day they tel vs the Church of England is the mother of the faithfull that the ministery thereof hath begotten vs if euer we were truely begotten in the spirit asking us where els we were regenerate â—f not in the womb of that their church c. And if we tell them of their transgressions for which we forsake them they answer though there were in our church these wounds you speake of yet doe they not come neare the hart they be not deadly they may blemish the bewty but endanger not the life of our church c. thereforâ— your separation from vs is scismaticall and vniust and many such like pleas they pretend 2 For the châ—rch of Rome it hath by her Mediators been alleged that in her is reteyned the pâ—ofession of Christ authorety of scriptures and Apostolike doctrine as touching all the chief or capitall articles of religion and that the church is to be esteemed by the foundation thereof which is Chrst on which foundation though they that came after builded wood and hay and stubble instead of siluer and gold and precious stones yet haue they not by and by departed from the foundation c. Now who knoweth not that this is the bulwarke of the church of Eng. now against all batteries and one of the chiefest reaâ—ons whereby they reteyn many simple and wel affected people among them and that may be also seen in this book following pag. 43.105 119. 123. and in many other of their writings 3.
of state professors that follow the Emperours religions that they worship not God but the purple robe that is the authority and persons of Prâ—nces Moreouer the church of England hath not Christ for their Mediator because they cannot come vnto God by him nor haue assurance by faith that he maketh intercession for them for that they offer vnto God a worship or seruice which themselues haue made and taken by imâ—tation out of Antâ—christs Massebook which Leitâ—rgie or Diuine seruâ—ce hauing in it also many erroneous superstitious and idolatrous ordiâ—ances rites and ceremonies being not required of God nor warrantable by Christs testament they read out of their book dayly in theâ—r aâ—semblies and offer or obtrude â—t vpon God By meanes whereof they also extinguish the true way of calling vpon God by the help of his spâ—rit as the Apostle teacheth and bring in a fleshly and dead kind of seruice reading other mens words instead of their own praying and calling on the name of the Lord. Which humane devise is contrary to the second commandement that forbiddeth vs to make or submit vnto any similitude or likenes of any thing in heauen earth or vnder the earth in matters concerning the worshâ—p of God And it being against the old couenant or testament which Christ hath confirmed vnto euery â—od and 〈◊〉 against the new testament also which calleth vs vnto a worship of God in spirit and truth hath no promise to be sanctified by Christs Medâ—ation who sanctifieth no idols nor idol seruice or false worshiâ— but contrariweise hath testified their offrings of blood will I not offer nor by make mention of their names with my lipps For asmuch then as the people which worshippeth is not the called iustified sanctâ—fied peâ—ple of Gâ—d but an vnlawfull câ—mmixture 〈◊〉 fall sorts of â—ersâ—ns and forasmuch as the worship it self which they read with and before â—he holy bible and thrust vpon God whither he like it or not is a false dead and vayne inuented worship of their own not commanded of God not iustifiable by his word it cannot be by the doctrine of the scripture or a any promâ—ses therein that Christ should be Mediator for such worship or worshippâ—rs or put any odours vnto such prayers Therâ—fore the church of England is not the true church of God EVery true church of God hath Christ for the Prophet of the same For of 〈◊〉 it is written I will raise them vp a Prophet from among thâ—ir brethren c. and every person which shal not hear that Prophet shal be desered 〈◊〉 the people Dâ—ut 18.18 Act 3 23. But thâ—â—hurch of England hath not Christ for the Prophet of the same Because it hath neyther himself in his own person to teach them for he is now in heaâ—en and there must be vntill the time that all things be restored neyther hath it his appoynted ordinanâ—e of teaching by prophesie or office which if it had Christ were the Prophet of the same as himself sayd if I send any he that receiueth him receiueth me The church of England hâ—th not Christs ordinance of prophesie without office for it is vnknowen vnpractised and vnsufferable among them for priuate men to preach in their aâ—â—emblies they must be ministers allowed by the Ordinary els it is punishable by the law of their church though by the law of Christ all men may prophesie in his church which is to speake to edifying to exhortation and to comfort and all men are exhorted to couet this mâ—re then other spirituall gifts 1. Cor. 14 vers 31.3.1.39 Neyther hath the châ—rch of England Christs appoynted officers to teach which are set down in scripture to be these Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors and Teachers Ephe 4.11 Of which the first three serued for the first publishing of the gâ—spel throughout the world the latter two continue stâ—ll vnto the worlds end but in stead of these it hath the hierarchie and ministery of Antichrist to teach the same namely Metropolitan Archbishops Lord Bishâ—ps Deanes c. Priests and Deacons which is none of Christs Ministery eyther in name office calling administration or mayntenance but the very ministery of the man of sinne as he left it in the land and as is to be seen at this day in Rome and other his dominions and in the lawes and canons of the popish church wher ar all the offices that now be in England Thus hauing not the ministery giuen of Christ but a different ministery giuen of Antichrist it followeth also by proportion from Christs words saying he that receiueth him that I send receiueth me and he that receiueth me receiueth him that sent me that the church of England receiuing such as Antichrist the Pope did send hath receiued Antichrist himselfe and so hath intertayned him for their Prophet and not Christ. Now where it is obiected that there are many excellent truthes publikly taught in this church and by this ministery of England it is answered that is not yenough vnlesse it were taught in and according to the ordinance of God For false Prophets teach much truth as is to be seen among Papists Anabaptists Arians and other like heretiks And as the morall good works which heathens doe in honouring their parents and Magistrates giuing almose absteyning from and punishing murder adultery theft c. are not inded good works according to christian religion because they are not done in obedience to Gods word by persons that are called iustified and sanctified by that word and so not done in faith and consequently cannot please God even so the theologicall works which Antichristians doe in preaching the truth praying ministring the sacraments c. are not indeed works pleasing vnto God because they are not done by persons that please him for alwayes the man must be accepted before his work can be and such persons please him not as without his calling and sending presume to administer his holy things It is not therefore the work but the word of God that sanctifieth the work which we must look vnto for as by this the vertuous heroik and religious acts of the Patrâ—archs and other holy men differ from the like acts of Pagans and infidels so also by this the difference iâ— to be put between the works and administrations of trâ—e and false Christians And seing the ministers of England are not by Christ called and sent as the better sort of themselues heretofore haue confessed so haue not his word to warrant their administration whatsoeuer good doctrine they teach it proues them no more to be true ministers then the excellent doctrines and prophesies of the soothsayer Balaam will proue him to be a true minister of God or that the Moabites or Madianites hauing him to sacrifice prophesie and teach among them had an ordinance or prophet of God See Deut. 18 10.11.14.15 c. Agayn Christ is not the Prophet of this
God who took our nature of the Virgin Mary is our onely and alsufficient Sauiour For proof of this they first allege that thâ—y receiue this truth are the people of God and in the state of saluation they that receiue it not cannot possibly be saued Mat. 16.18 Mark 16.16 1 Iâ—h 4.2 Col 2.7 But first none of these scriptures doe say that this one article which these ministers haue set downe in this forme of words is the onely fundamentall truth in religion Neyther doth any other scripture that I know of so speake for though Christ onely is the foundation of the Christian church and though as they secondly allege no other point of religion is necessary otherwise then as it tendeth necessarily to teach or confirme this one truth yet foloweth it not but other points also are fundamental truthes the denyall of which will abolish from Christ. Secondly they haue altered added to and omitted some of the words of these scriptures for their own aduantage For fearing that we would as indeed we mean to doe presse them with the profession of the Anabaptists Papists and other heretiks they thinke to preuent vs. And first against the Anabaptists which deny that Christ took our flesh these men haue added who took our nature of the Virgin Mary Then against the papists which hold merit of works they adioyne these words our onely and alsufficient Sauiour And this because the church of England mainteyneth the truth in these points against those fore sayd heretiks On the other hand to help themselues in their corrupt Antichristian walking and false constitution they omit and mention not th' Apostles words Col. 2. wher he sayth As ye haue receiued Christ Iesus the Lord so walke in him rooted and built in him and stablished in the faith as ye haue been taught c The discreet reader may soon espy their purpose in this cunning cariage For let the position be set downe in the scripture termes and we shall see how weake their plea will be The onely fundamentall truth in religion is this That Iesus is the Christ the sonne of the liuing God comen in the flesh in whom we must beleeue and h walke being rooted and build in him and stablished in the faith as we are taught in the new testament If now these ministers will insist vpon the three first scriptures onely and generall terms that are in them it is apparant that the Papists Anabaptists and many other miscreants doe hold and professe them absolutely absolutely But if they joyne with them Colos. 2. and compare the walking rooting building and stablishing in the faith taught by th' Apostles with the Popish church or with their own it wil be found that neyther of them hold the foâ—ndation Christ aright Themselues wâ—ll grant it of the Papâ—sts and other heretiks and for their own church it is before in this treatise proued So then to come agayn vnto their reason that they hold â—eâ—ch and mainteyn euery part of Gods holy truth which is fundamâ—ntall whereby they woulâ— conclâ—de themselues to be a true chrâ—ch the arâ—ument is deneyed Fâ—r first if â—t were granted that thâ—y hâ—ld â—aught and maiâ—teynâ—d every part of fundâ—â—ental truth which yet with them is but one article onely as we haue heard it wâ—ll not follow necessaryly that therefore they are a true châ—rch or that they truely professe the Christ an faith There wanâ— two things 1 obedience to the truth professed withoâ—t which men shal be damned whatsoeuer they professe 2 and a right profession of the true faith onely without errâ—urs adioyned that ouerthrow the same faith and obedience thereto For if a people profeâ—sing that onely fundamentall truth which these ministers speake of should withall professe Mahomet the prophet of the Turks or H. N. the God of the Familists or any other like abomination were this misceline profession of Christ and Belial togither a true and sound profeâ—sion I trow not So then these ministers must alter their plea thus that they hold teach mainteyn and obey every part of the fundamentall truth and nothing els with it that ouerthrowes the same If now they say this they doe I haue before in this treatise disproued it and here agayn will briefly disproue it thus They professe to beleeu the Communion of Saincts and that the visible church is a congregation of faithfull people Yet contrariweise they hold teach and mainteyne that their own church is a true church of Christ though it consists as wel of vnholy as holy infidels as beleeuers and innumerable wicked persons openly seen and known That this they hold mainteyn is proâ—ed by their continual clamors and reprochful writings against vs that call vpon them for a separation of light from darknesse It is proued by Dr Wâ—itgifts plea before mentioned that the children of Papists heretiks and other wicked persons are and ought to be baptised amoÌ„g theâ— It is further proued by the visible estate of their church knowne vnto all among them and testâ—fied by her dearest freinds fauourers Mâ— Gifford speaking to his brethren â—f the Communion of Saincts in Engl. sayth Yee would euen powr out your stinâ—ing and râ—tâ—en pâ—yson like blaspemous and venemous beasts ye would speake after this manner you that are so full of the spirit you that are Saincts and suâ—h like What are you Diâ—ils are ye of the flesh No doâ—ut ye are vntill God convert ye But we may se how diuiâ—ishly men ar become wicked when a man cannot make any appearance to be godly and holy but it is reproched as though it were a shamefull thing to be lead by the spirit c. These and the like records with the continuance continuance in this confused estate plainely proue an ouerthrow of that article of the true church which is the body of Christ and the body being disanulled Christ the head cannot soundly be reteyned Agayn they professe in Engl. that the puâ—e word of God is to be preached the sacraments duely administred c. also that in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we haue expresly decleared vnto vs in the word of God Yet withall they professe and practise in that church to read the Apocrypha â—criptures in which are found vntruthes and errors when many parts of the authentik scripture are neuer read among them they haue also written homilies in sted of preaching a written Leâ—tourgâ—e Letany collects c. in sted of praying which Leitoargie with all the popish contents therein must be approued and vsed by all the Priests and people and God serued by it euery day They haue also an antichristian clergie caâ—led and ordeyned according to their pontifical or book of ordination which â—n their beleef hath not any thing that of it selfe is sâ—perstitious and vngodly c. Finally all the Romish reliques yet in England to be seen in the
Vniuersall consent agreement and applause of Churches in al nations of Synodes and Councels of Fathers and learned men haue been the continuall boast of Papists in all their books against the Protestants now they in Enâ—l to beare out their estate vrge agayn and agayn the like against vs that when Gods word will not vphold them yet mans word at least may honour them before the people See after in this treatise pag 9. 22. 44 5. 89 91.92.128 4. Whereas the truth hath brought for her defense the evident scriptures papists haue been wont to carp at the allegations and interpretations of them and chalenge their aduersaries for corrupting them the formall protestants in Engl. haue done the like against the Reformists and they now use the like colour against vs but how truely let the particulars shew after in this book pag. 90.91.97 5. To reuile and calumniate such as forsooke them hath been the coÌ„mon practise of Papists calling them heretiks schismatikes Lutherens Calumists c. and matching them with wicked heretiks heretofore now liuing The same way doe our aduersaries now walke in proclayming vs to be Schismatiks Seduced Brownists Donatists c. and to make vs the more odious vnto the people they enroll vs sometime with the most vile blasphemers that they can mention For he was esteemed a forward â—reacher amâ—ng them who to grace his own cause by disgracing the truth would needs ioyn vs with the blasphemer Hacket sometimes a brother of the reformists and hot mainteyner of their cause to make his malice the more remarkable he puts in the margine of his book The brownest and Hacket of an euill spirit and that which he writeth besides is so fraudulently set down that the simple reader who knowâ—th not our cause may thinke that this Hacket was one of vs. This abuse we suâ—fer because forsooth we were thought to hinder their couÌ„terfeyt reformation which Hacket would haue set vp by force for which they beare their reproch at his hands that wrote English Scottizing for discipline but this man most iniuriously would turn it vpon vs. These and the like arguments doe euill men continually vse against the truth which presseth them and which they seek to suppresse but all in uayne for it will preuayl mangre their opposition and that which they thinke to hinder the Gospell bâ— God will turne to the furtherance of the same and confusion of his aduersaries Against these and all other like colours wherewith false churches aâ— adorned two meanes haue been vsed for to discouer the falshood thâ— one manifesting the fact or estate of a person or people the other the lawfulnesse of the same The commandement of God is a lantern and the law a light to declare what is good or euill and evidences there are of euery publick estate and action For in al ages God hath moued some to obserue and speake against the abuses reigning and some haue recorded things for their glory which turne vnto their shame â—y this meanâ— the skirts of the whore of Rome haue been discouered whiles some that loued and othersome that loathed her haue painted out her filthinesse which being compared with the chastitie of Christs spowse set forth in holy writ hath caused righteous men as was foretold to iudge her children after the manner of harlots and of murtherers and the very hornes of that beast to hate the whore and burne her with fire And we at this day that witnesse the truth against the remainders of that whores cup are driuen to breake silence to plead for Christ in publik because the aduersaries so importune vs by continuall preaching and writing against vs and seeking to bear out all with the cloke â—f the gospel and to hide the iniquities vnder a vaile of professing truthes fundamentall they will hardly be a known of the manifold euils and grosse corruptions that preuayl in their assemblies Therefore also are we forced to produce their own writers for to witnes with vs who both heretofore and to this day complayn of the sinns that reign among them And worthy it is to be obserued how the ministers of England are come to contradict and depart from their own grounds for to mainteyn their corrupt estate For now they vtterly deney the visible church to be a company of faithfull people that truely worship Christ and readily obey him coâ—traâ—y both to all the scriptures and to their own Articles d of religioâ— Aâ—d Mr Bernarde in the name of all the diuines in their church yea if we â—ay beleâ—ue him of all the reformed Churches in Christendome telleth vs with a marginall note also to haue it wel obserued that the true word of God preached and true sacraments of Christ administred are infallible tokeâ—s of a true church I say not saith he the word truely preachâ—d nor the sacrâ—mâ—nts rightly administred but thus the true word preached the true sacrâ—mâ—nâ—â— administred Now lay these things together and see what a holy communion they will make the church of God to be namely if not a roâ—t of miscreants yet at least a mesceline multitude of beleeuers and infidelâ— holy and profane Among whome it the true word be preached though neuer so curruptly falsly peruersly by any Popeling Baalist or Balaamite if the true sacraments be administred though neuer so superstitiausly profanely and disorderly to the open wicked c. yet there must needs be a true church Such heauenly doctrine or rather such hellish error is now taught by the transformed ministers for to make meÌ„ keep communion with Belial Against these and other like impostures haue I endeauoured to bring out the truth though naked and destitute of all wordly ornaments and by it to manifest the present aberations of my country from the primitiue faith of Christ I haue also produced their own testimonies a-against them that the Saincts on eart may say their rock is not as our Rock euen our enemies being iudges And if they will yet resist the world may see they are condemned by themselues But my harts desire and prayer for my brethren is that they may be saued turning from darknes to light and from the power of Satan vnto God that they may receiue forgiuenes of sinns and inheretance among them which are sanctified by faith in Christ. Hâ—nâ—y Ainsworth A Direction to some principall things conteyned in this book Administration of the Ministers of Engl scanned with the effects pag 14. c. 58. c. 60. c. 62. c. 109. c. 110. c. Antichrists kingdome not ouerthrowne by the ministers of Engl. pag. 61. c. Begetting of faith how it is pag. 5 6 It is no essentiall note of a true church p 6. It should be before the planting of a church p. 40 41 146. Building of the church and how it is performed in England p. 33 34 c Christ not the head Mediator Prophet Priest or
the name of the Lord and 2 of faith by hearing his word 1. Whosoeuer call th upon the name of the Lord shal be saued This we are to understand according to Dauids exposition whosoeuer calleth vpon him in truth Psa. 145 18. for God is a spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and trâ—th Ioh. 4.24 but the worship and calling vpon God which your Church vseth in reading the prayers letanie collects and other like things of your Leiturgie translated out of AntiChrâ—st masse-booke is carnall false Idolatrous for such a manner of diuine service you haue no commandement or warrant in the scriptures And this popish worship begetteth not but destroyeth faith and the true caling on Godâ— name and deceiueth mens sowles for in vayn they worship me sayth Christ teaching fâ—r doctrine the precepts of men Mat. 15.9 and they that wayt vpâ—n lyâ—ng vanâ—ties forsake their own mercy Ionah 1 8 2. For the other poynt Faâ—th is by bearing or by report saith the Apostle and proueth it by Isa. 53.1 Lord who hath beleeued our beâ—ring that is our report Now no man can truly and faithfully report â—nlesse God hath first spoken vnto â—â—m neâ—ther can aâ—y man fruâ—tfully hear other report or doctrine then the Lords and so hearing is by the word of God iâ— the mouthes of such as are sent as he sheweth in the 15 verse But youâ— Ministers are not truly and lawfully sent for they cannot shew eyther calling ordination or office according to Chrâ—sts Testament therefore they cannot truly and lawfully preach his word and consequently cannot beget ordinarily a true sauing faith The next scripture also Mat 28 19 20 playnly condemneth the state of your Church and ministerâ—e for 1. There is a lawfull calling authorizing and sending of ministerâ— from him that hath all power in heauen and in earth saying Goe therfore and teach but such a sending your ministers haue not for as your selues haue sayd they enter not in by Chrict but by a Popish and vnlawfull vâ—cation 2. There is a commandement to teach or make disciples before they be receiued into th' Church by baptisme for oâ— them that ar taught such onely as gladly receiue and beleeue the word are to be baptised and admitted into the Church as the practise of th' Apostle sheweth Act. â— 40 41. but your Church was not thuâ— gathered or plaÌ„ted by th' preaching of the Gospell but by the commandement of the Magistrate neither weâ— onely the willing beleevers receiued and others refused but the whole profane multitudes wer admitted or rather compelled into your church wher they and their seed are still retâ—yned 3. There Gods Ministers are willed to teach Chrâ—stians so baptised to obserue all things whatsoeuer Christ commanded his Apostles verse 20 so they haue his gracious promise and blessing to the end of the world but in your church many things are obserued which Christ neuer commaâ—ded Yea the Ministerie and goâ—erment appoynted in his TestameÌ„t are held and confirmed by practise among you not to be perpetual not necessary nor fitting for your state but an other pompous minâ—stery and Lordly ecclesiastical gouerment after the manner of the court of Rome And as for power and liberâ—y to obserue Christ commandements that is farr from your people which al are in bondage to the Bishops and their courts hauing not chrâ—stian freedom to censure sinne or sinners or practise the ordinances of the Gospel as the Apostles did vnlesse Princes and Parliaments will permit or command them The like may be sayd and returned vpon you from the other scriptures by you alleged all which doâ— concerne the true church and ministerie as your selues will not deny and so will helpe you nothing vntill you proue your church and ministerie such Boast not therefore of a true sauing faith and fruites of the spirit when such bitter fruites and works of the flesh doe reign among you for faith without works 〈◊〉 dâ—ad Iam. 2.26 Now then if you will giue us leaue to consider the state of your Church aright we would mind it thus your Church hath the essentiall notes of a false Church namly a confuse prophane worldly people with an Antichrâ—stian Prelacie and preisthood over them able to beget ordinarily but a vayne and dead faith through want of the true ministery of the word in Christs ordinance and by meanes of the false worship and false doctâ—nes that are in your Church to worke the fruits of the flesh as the idolatries and other sinful actions abounding in your Church doe shew to make a man a very Antichristian by resisting persecuting and blaspheming the true way of Christ and practise of his Gospel which alas too many doe and last of all to destroy him if he repent not of his sinneâ—â—nd find mercie with the Lord. which we desire you all may finde for the saluation of your soules The 3. Consideration OVr Church and ministerie are approved of and rejoyced for of all the pure reformed Churches in the world Our confession by them placed in the Harmonie of Confessions giâ—ing vs the right hand of fellowship as also by all the godly learned and most sound and excellent fathers lights of the churâ—h that euer liued in or meddle with our church Bucer Marâ—yr Fagius Alasio Knoxe who liued â—n our church Caluin Beza Bullinger Gualtâ—r â—ymlâ—r Zanchius Iunius Rolocus c. with others verie many who haue giuen their testimony and approbation to our church and ministerie Wherin if our errors were fundamentall damnable and Antichristian as you terme them these churches and persons had vndoubtedly the spirit of discerning and could not be deceiued all at once 1. Cor. 11 16. 14.33 â— 15 10.15 14.32 37 2. Thes. 1.4 Answer THough you come against vs with horsemen and charrets yet we will â—emember the name of the Lord our God by whose word alone all doctrines must be tried all persons must â—udge and be iudged It is incident to the best men and purest churches to erre and be deceiued wherefore their sentences and approbations must be examined by Gods word If you say otherweise you teach corrupt and popish doctrine With such weapons as these haue the Papists long foâ—ght against you and where you can bring one they can bring many to witnesse for them and their Romish superstitions Antiquity vniversality and sâ—ch lâ—ke popular reasons they seek to vphold their kingdome withall 2. The word of God condemning your church and ministerie as we haue often proued and our proofes ly vpon you yet unanswered though all churches in the world should aâ—proue of you your case wer â—o whit the better for all men are vanity 3. The Iewes obieâ—ted as weighty aâ— argâ—mâ—nâ— agaâ—â—â—t Câ—riâ—t him selfe wheâ— they sayd dâ—th any of the rulers or of the Phariseâ—s 〈◊〉 in him but this people which know not the Law are â—ursed Iâ—h 7 1â— 19 4. If the reformed Church's apâ—roue so well of youâ— Church and
you vs of this as a consideratioÌ„ to reduce us to your church when we because such Atheists wicked ar coÌ„trary to Gods wil suffred among you doe separate from your Church 3. Agayn who be those godly ministers and people you mean If such as are called Puritans they haue I suppose moe adversaries theâ— freinds in your church yea the publick state alwes and canons of your church are against them and all that know the truth of God and theâ—r estate aright haue just cause to blame them for theâ—r long halting and dissembling If the Prelates be those godly minâ—sters they haue in regard of their vnlawfull places and proceedings many good people for their aduersaries both within and without the land and your selues also which suffer for sâ—paration in your church By neither of these two contrary factions among you ar men ordinarily conuerted unto Christ both sorts setting your selues against the true way of Chrâ—st for gathering and gouernmenâ— of the Church and worship of God and so do hinder mens saluation and deserâ—e to be not approued but reproued in the name of the Lord. The 5. Consideration 5. GOD hath giuen witnâ—â— for the truth of our ministerie by the vndoubted tâ—stimony of his gracious presence and approbation of the same by his gifts of 1. sanctifiâ—ation 2 knowledge 3 spirit of discerning 4. of vtterance 5 of power and authority in teaching 6 effectuall and ordinarie â—alling and begetting to the faiâ—h of God and bringing them from darknâ—s to light from the old man to the nâ—w from the flâ—sh vnto the spirit which ministery of ours begat you â—lso if ever you were truâ—y bâ—gotten in the spirit by Gods mâ—rcie hath begotten me other hâ—s vnworthy seruants Answer 1. THe Papists will say as much as all this and more too if words will serâ—eâ— for the ministery of their church they boast of theâ—r Friers Iesuâ—ts holines knowledge utterance authority in teaching and their maruelous effects in conuerting to Christianity the Indians other â—eâ—thens all ouer the world Yea what religeon glorieth not in tâ—e sanctitie gifts and effects of their ministerie But Gods word must try all 2. The ministerie of â—our Church being Archbishops L. Bishops Deanes Archdeacons c Priests and Deacons as is to be seen in the books statutes and canons of your church you brâ—ng not here any one word of God or text of scriptures which are his testimonies to witnes for the truth of your ministery and this is indeed worthy to be considered of vs of al that shall read your Considerations 3. Your own brethren heretofore confessed and complayned to the Parliament that you lack in England a right ministery of God that the ministers are neithâ—r proued elected called nor ordeyned according to Gods word This testimonie being true how then doth God giue witnes for the truth of your ministery 4. The witnesâ—es that you bring if they be examined wil say little ar nothing to this purpose For 1. The gift of santification is a common note of Christianity 1. Thes. 4.3 1 Pet. 2.9 and therefore no speciall note of a ministery This was Korahs argument when he would haue vsurped the Priesthood All the congregation is holy euery one of them why may they not therefore be Prâ—ests Num. 16.3.10 But what saith the scripture No man taketh thâ—â— honour to himselfe but he that is called of God as Aaron was Heb. 5.4 2.3 The second and third 2 knowledge 3 of the spirit of discerning are also generall for the whole church and not speciall for the ministerie Rom. 15.14 Phil. 1.10 Yea some in the flock may have a greater measure both of sanctification and of knowledge then the Pastor or teacher or any Officer It cannot be denied but Barsabas had knowledge as wel as Matthias yet was he not therefore an Apostle Act. 1.23.26 and they whose genealogies could not be found had knowledge as wel as the other Prâ—ests yet were they not therâ—fore kept in the Priesthood Ezra 2.62 Boast not you therefore of your knowledge but shew vs yoâ—r genealogies in the scriptâ—res There be a great many in your ministerie called dumb Priestâ— whâ—ch are but bare readers by whose meanes many people perish for want of knowledge these testimonâ—es will be dumb for them yet your â—â—urch proclaymeth them to be â—rue ministers Your best ministerâ— of whose knowledge you boast shew themseluâ—â— ignorant or worse in the 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 â—lanting of a church whâ—les they will haue it as their â—ractise proueth with commixâ—â—re of al form without separation whereaâ— they cannot shew any true church since the beginning of the world but was of a separaâ—ed people Gen. 61.2 12 1. Lâ—v 20.23.24 Ezr. 6 21. Act. 2 40.41 19 9. c. 4. 5. The fowrth and fift 4. vttâ—rance with 5 power authority in teaching are needfull in such as are ministers but no neceâ—sarie proof of a true ministerie For had not the false Apostles and Prophets utterance and power that preached wâ—th eloquence and wisdom of words dâ—sgracing the Apostles and Prophets of the Lord 2 Cor. 10.10 11.13.15 1. Kin. 22. â—4 Ier. 23.31 28.1.2.10 11. 2 Tim. 3.8 Your ministers many preach not at al many preach to mayntain the pompous prelacie laudable ceremonies of your Church and they that prâ—ach best shew little power or authority For how many yeers haue they been preaching for Discipline and against some corruptionâ— of your church yet nothing preuailed but are further now at last then they were at the first Who knoweth not that the prelates haue closed vp the mouthes of many Ministers that the prophesie of Esaias is verified vpon them Isa. 56.10 and yet you boast of theâ—r utterance auâ—hority in teaching But lamentable ministers are they â—ll and the best of them may be seen to be but briers and to haue betrayed the authority of Christ For when they took the Order of Priesthood as they call it they solemnly promised euen before the Lord and by his help that they would giue their faithfull diligence alwayes so to minister the doctrine and sacraments and the discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded as this realm hath receiued the same according to the commandements of God so that they mought teach the people committed to their care and charge wâ—th all diligence to keep obseruâ— the same They promised also reuerently to obey their ordinary other chief ministers is to whom the gouernmeÌ„t charg is commited ouâ—r them following with a glad mind and will their godly admoniâ—ion and submitting theÌ„seluâ—â— to their godly juâ—gement Yet your forward preachers as they are esteemed doe not minister the doctrine sacraments and discipline of Christ as thâ— Lord hath commanded but sue and wait for authority from the Magâ—strate to haue that whâ—ch they count the true discipline of Christ erected in theâ—r parishes which because the ciuill Magistrate doeth not they practise
appoynted them These Elders called generally Bishops or Ouerseers had charge of their particular flocks and might not goe from them as did the Apostles but attend and feed them These now could not properly be sayd to beget their peoâ—le to the faith as the Apostle noteth to the Corinthians but to feed and instruct them and therefore are not called Fathers but Feeders or Pasters and Pedagogues Child-leaders or Instructeurs From which I gather that people must regenerate and borne again before they may be admitted into any particular church or haue officers ouer them and that ordinary ministers which feed their flocks cannot be sayd to beget them as is the common vawnt of you Ministers in England which me thinks even reason it selfe might shew you For you that are now over your parishes how found you your people at first a church or no church If you say a church then you begat them not but entred vpon other mens labours that were before you if you say they were not a church then you condemn the state of your parishes as they were planted before you were their Ministers Now then to come to your â—roposition In whatsâ—ever churches that is assemblies for so I vnderstand you to vse the werd generallie as the Scripture sometime vseth Ecclesia is such an ordinance of God in publick vse and force by which there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth c. they are true visible churches of Christ This I denie for in the assemblies of the heathens in the Apostles daies as before is proued there was such an ordinance of God sometimes in publick vse and force as by it ordinarilie there was made an vndoubted new birth as th' fruit of th' Apostles preaching sheweth· yet were not those assemblies of heathens true visible churches of Christ. but such onelie as were converted to God and separated from the rest that beleeved not and joyned in a holy communion togither were true visible churches Whereas you assume that in the best of your assemblies is such an ordinancâ— of God c this also I denie for your ministers are not Gods ordinance he hath not called or sent them they execute no lawfull office in your assemblies But your assumption you say is manifest because by that ordinance â—f preaching which is in publick vse and force there is ordinarily made an vndoubted new birth I answer first in verie many of your assemblies there is no such ordinance of preaching in publick use as you here bâ—ast of but bare reading onely yet those assemblies are by the Constitutions of your church to be reputed as true visible churches as the other SecoÌ„dly in those other other where preaching is I deny that there is ordinarily madâ— an vndoubed new birth Your proof is because thâ—re do ordinarily appear in many the undoubted fruites and testimonis of Gods spirit c. I answer first if this be so yet what will these many help the moâ—t and greatest â—umber in whom such fruits appear not When many of the hethens beleeued the Apostles word did their beleef bring the other that beleeued not into the church did not the Apostles separate the beleeuers from the rest and teach them to come from among them Yet you for the faith of some will vnite all the assemblie vnto Christ and his church contrary to the Apostles practise and to all the scriptures Secondly I deny that there doth ordinarily appear in many such vndoubted fruits of Gods spirit after your ordinary preaching as for which we may esteem them true visible churches Some fruites I knâ—w there doe appear so doe there among the Papists yea they take occasion for such things to reproch you that there follow not so many good works after your preaching as after their doctrine but among neyther of you are those fruits seen whâ—ch by the testimonie of scriptures will proue you true visible churches So we haue here but your bare affirmation to rest vpon and though I might thus end with as bare a deniall tâ—l you bring further proof yet for to help the reader I wil shew that ordinarily there appeareth not a new birth after your preaching Because of your publick idolatrous estate whereâ—n you stand subiect to Antichristian Prelatâ—s and canons whiles you haue your publick worship after the Romish idolatrous manner and are stil comming led in one bodie with the profane and serâ—ents seed with many other evils among you which plainly shew you want the new birth and are stil in your old mothers womb This the scriptures which you allege in your proposition will confirme for the Apostles shew Iam 1 18 1 Pet 1 23. that Christs church is a people begotten of God with the word of truth that is the Gospell but your church was first begotten gathered constituted ordered and is still continued by the Magistrates word and authority which if it did not inforce the people the estate wherein you now stand would soon be changed your church dissolved and eyther be better or Worse And where you learned so to inforce fâ—â—th and constrein men to be members of your church I can not tel vnlesse you follow Mahomets doctrine who taught that men should be compelled to the faith by warr and sword Againe the Apostle addeth this for a testimony and end of our new birth that we should be as the first fruitâ— of Gods creatures This men are not till they be as was Israel hallowed to the Lord Ier 2 3 which was by separation from the world Levit 20.26 and a willing covenant with the Lord Exod. 19.5 6.8 Dâ—ut 26 17 18 19 And that the like must be of vs Christians an other scrâ—pture confirmeth saying These are they wâ—iâ—h are not defilâ—d with women for thâ—y are virgins this implyeth a seâ—arâ—tâ—on from the world â—hâ—sâ— fâ—llow the Lamb whithâ—rsoeuer he goeth this argueth a couenant and communion with Chriâ—t and in the next words both poynts are repeted these are 1 bought from men being the first fruits 2 â—nto Gâ—d and to the Lamb after this followeth the fruit and in their mouth 〈◊〉 found no guile for they are without spot before the throne of God Whereas therefore you haue stood so long against vs for separation and would mainteyn a meer confusion of all sorts of people in a Câ—â—rch vpon an imaginary separation made in the clowdes of your own fansies whiles outwardly and indeed you are one body with the wicked you are vndoubtedly â—ot yet borne a new your Church hath not strength to bring forth your ministers are vnskilfull midwiues and the saying of the Prophet coÌ„cerning the people of Ephraim is verified also vâ—oÌ„ your people be is an vnwise son els would be not stand still such a time even in the breaking forth of the childâ—en Hos 13 13. The 4. Argument IN what churches soeuer all things needfull to saluation by publick authoryâ—y and gâ—nâ—rall approbation are ordinarily and
their dutie Gods word teacheth uâ— tâ—at â—f a man walke in any one sinne though he doe not all he shal nâ—t liue but die the deâ—th Ezek. 18 11 13. Wâ—en Gibeah was giuen oveâ— to the Sinne of Sodom if the Priests and prophets should haue preached against idolatrie swearing breaking of the Sabbath and such like evils and not against that particular filthynes which the people followed should they haue preached repentance truly When Israel followed Iereboams calues at Dan and Bethel if the ministers then had preached against Sodoâ—ie whordome drunkennes and the like and not cried out aâ—ainst that present idol worship but pleaded rather for it shâ—uld they haue tâ—uâ—ht repenatnce truly Even thus it is with your best minâ—sterâ— they will thâ—â—deâ— out in their pulpits against Popery and idolâ—try in â—eâ—erâ—ll aâ—ainst theft whordome prâ—de coueteousnes and mâ—â—y oâ—her iâ—qâ—â—â—ieâ— but the sinne which cleaueth so fast to the bones of â—oâ—r Church tâ—e heynous enormities in Gods worship amongst you these they meddle not with neither vpon payn of excommunicatiâ—â— draw the people to repentance for them as after I will further shew Perhaps now and then they will glance at the Bps. or some other corruptions but bring the people from vnder these iniquities they doe not nay they plead for them rather and cry oâ—t vpon vs which haue forsaken so grosse abâ—minations Now there being no notice giuen by the ministers or taken by the people of the siâ—ns wherein they liue the other two parts of true reâ—entance doe also fail among you for farr you be from confessing your sins which though you offer the sacrifice of fools yet will you not know that you doe evill and most farr from amending them when with so high a hand you doe maintain them although the testimonie and sâ—ffrings of vs your disâ—ised and persecuted brethren against them haue sounded in your eares now manâ—e a day Thus teach they not repentance aright As for faith it cannot be sound and true where it hath not ground oâ— the couenant and promise of God Gods couenant and â—romise of saluation you haue not without repentance as Christ sayd Except ye repent you shall all likewise pâ—rish for surely God will wound the hairie â—ate of him that walketh in his sinnes To preach faith therefore and aâ—ply iustification by faith to an vnrepentant people is to â—rofane that holy doctrine and turne the grace of God into licentâ—ousnes But to giue the seales of the righteousnes of faith baptisme and the Lords supper to the wicked blasphemers irreligious and to their seed it is a sinne of sinâ— for which your ministers shall giue an heauy account to Christ at his appearing as haue counted the â—recious blood of his testament an vnholiâ— thing and washed and fed therewith eâ—en doggs and swine as the scripture calleth such vngodly â—ersons And thus you haue not truly taught among you eyther repâ—ntance from dead works or faith towards God which are the doctrine of the beginning of Christ and the very foundation as the Apostle saith I will now also compare the practise of the Apostles in the placâ— which you cite with yours that the reader may see how your right eye is blinded to bring scripture so playn against your selues In Act. 2 37 c the manner of gathering and planting that church‘ is thus described There was first the word preached by the Apostles verse 14 c which being heard pricked the harts of the â—eople verse 37. there was repentance taught not for adultery theft worshiping of Idols oâ— the like whereof it may be that people was not knowen to be guilty but for their particular trespasse in refusing of Iesus Christ into whose name they must be baptised if they would be saued verse 38 then followed a playn separation from such as frowardly resisted the truth vers 40 and none were baptised or ioyned to the church but such as gladly receiued the word verse· 41. After this followed a contâ—newing notwithstanding the imminent peril of trouble and persecution for the truth sake in the Apostles doctrâ—ne and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayerâ— verse 42 If you had walked in this primitiue churches steps you should before the constituting of your Church haue preached vnto the poor ignorant and idolatrous Papists which was the generall face of the land at Q Maries death repentance for their sinns in all their idolatries wâ—ll worships and superstitions subiection to Antichrist his prelacie priesthood and gouernment c. To such as had their harts pricked with your doctrine you should haue shewed the true way of the Gospel faith and holy walking therein You should haue taughâ— them a separation from the profane and obstinate and haue gathered into the Church such onely as gladly receiued the word and with them you should haue walked in a holy communion and practise of Christs ordinances thâ—ugh Princes and Parlâ—aments thoâ—gh men and Angels should haue forbidden threatned you for it Thus had your church beeÌ„ the daughter of thâ—t mother church in Ierâ—salem whereas now by neglecting this patterne and reteyning the Popish confuse multitude and a great part of their ministery and worship you haue imitated Bâ—bylon â—e mother of fornications aâ—d â—re as vnlike Sion as you are like your selues The objection which you feared and therefore would prevent with answer is yet of more weight then will be eased by your syllogisme the aâ—sumption whereof I deny For the true constituting of a Church by the word perached callâ—ng men to a willing holy covenant with God sepâ—ratinâ— them from the wayes of Satan Antichrist his false idoatrâ—â—s worship priesthood and government vniting them togither in the comâ—union of the true faith and bond of loue and peace which ar the controuersies between you and vs these poynts are cleerly set down in scriptures to the vnderstandâ—ng of the spirituall as the history of all the Bible and the practâ—se of the Apostles and primitiue churhes already alleged doe plainely shew and I am sure you will not deny but they were spirituall Whereas you would â—roue they are not clearely set downe to the vnderstand of the spirituall because thowsands of ministers and people of the churâ—h of Englâ—nd are of contrary iudgment to vs first we haue many testimonies of your own minâ—sters for the things that we defend against you as in this and other books we haue manifested Secondly if we had no such testimony yet what doe you but make your selues iudges in your own cause that though we bring never so playn evidence against you from the word yet if you see it not or wil not see it must not be needful for saluation More vnsound and popish doctrine hath seldome been taught But I leaue vpoÌ„ you the saying of Christ vnto the Pharisees If you â—ere blinde ye should not haue sinne but now ye say WE SEE therefore your sin remayneth Iohn 9 11. And whereas
you further bring aginst vs forreyn churches and speciall persons the chiefest lights of this age first mind whither this be not â—lso â— ground of Popery so to presse humane authority and whether the Papists cannot for many of theâ—r heresies allege the ancient fathers the chiefests lights of their ages whome your selues I suppose will not deny but to be spirituall seing their testâ—monies are often alleged by your church in pulpits and in print Secondly this your dealing is such as both the better sort of the late Fathers as Augustine for example who was of mâ—nde that counsels Bishops c. ought not to be obiected for triall of controuersies but the holy scriptures onely and the very superstitious Popelings themselues haue condemned saying that we are rather to beleeu â—ne priuatâ— faithfull man then a whol Councel and the Pope himselfe if a man haue better aâ—thorety reason on his side Thirdly your obiection and pleading against vs is much like as if the Iewes should haue obiected against Christianity thus It is not needfull to saluation to beleeu that Iesus who was crucâ—fied is the Christ for then it would be cleerly set down in scripture to the vnderstanding of the spirituall Dan 12 10 Prou 8 9 but that it is not for the thousands of priests and people of Israel Gods own people among whom are the chiefest lights of this age the Rabbines expounders of the law c. which are vndoubtedly spirituâ—ll are of contrary judgment to you his disciples Iob 7 47 48 49.52 Fourthly as I haue before answered forreyn churches and the lights in them haue cleerly seen the things we stand for and doe asseâ—t with vs touching separation from Antichristianisme gathering into and walking in a holy communion of Saincts and other poynts of greatest moment between you and vs. as their Harmony of Confessions besides other particular books many doe testify If you obiect their particular judgment of your churches estate I answer that is not needfull to saluation therefore they may misse in it and yet be spirituall for if men iâ— their own churches profesâ—e and walke in the truth so farr as God giues them to see and thinke better of other churches then they doe deserue such errors even the most spirituall are subiect vnto It was cleerly revealed in scriptures that the Gentiles should be called vnder the Gospell Deut 32.43 Gen. 12 3 Psal. 67. 117 Isa. 11.10 Chrâ—st â—imself plainly confirmed and commanded it Mat 28.19 Iohn 10 16 Act 1 8. Yet the Apostle Peter himselfe and many other spirituall men perceiued it not till in more speciall and particular weise it was to them reuealed Act. 10.14 28 34 3â— 11 2 â— 18. As Peter and many other godly then fayled in esteeming worse of the Gentiles then they should so learned and godly men now may fayl in esteeming better of your estâ—tâ— then it doth deseruâ— The 5. Argument WHatsoeuer church is the mother of the faithfull is a true visible church but the best of our assemblies are c. Ergo true visible churches The preposition is true because that regeneration and new birth is onely ordirarily wrought by the word preached Rom 10.8.17 Iam. 1.18 1 Pet. 1 23. which is onely and ordinarily found in the visible Church Gal 5 26. 1 Iohn â— 5. The assumption is true because many are ordinarily new borne in our best assemblies by the ordinance of preaching in publick vse and force as appeareth by Mr Iohnsons foresayd confession as also by the meanes of the causes and meanes ordeyned by God to beget faith in the hearers and efficacie thereof Esa. 55 11 Rom. 10.17 and lastly â—y the infallible effects of faith and fruits of the spirit appearing in the true members of our best assemblies Gal. 5 6 22. Answer HEre you seem to bring a new argument though it be but the old in a new coat for take away this mantel wherewith your Major is clothed The mother of the faithfull and all the rest wil be but regeneration and new birth wrought as you say by the preaching in your best assemblies Which things we heard in your third argument and there refuted As you here vrge them agayn I further answer first to your proposition Whatsoever church say you is the mother of the faithfull is a true visible church But Israel say I in her idolatrous estate was the mother of the faithfull yet was she not in that estate a true visible church therfore your proposition is not true That Israel then was the mother of the faithfull appeareth by the words of the Lord Plead with your mother Hos 2 2 That they which were willed thus to plead were the faithfull appereth by theâ—r names Ammi Ruhamah that is My people and she that hath obteyned mercy That yet notwithstanding this mother was not a true visible church appeareth by the Plea to be made against her She is not my wife neyther am I her husbaÌ„d her estate being as elsewhere is sayd without the true God and her children that continewed in her idolatrie should obteyn no mercy Thus you see a church may be sayd to be the mother of the faithfull and yet not be a true Church of God You would confirme the proposition to be true because regeneration and new birth is ordinarily wrought by the word preached which is one lie and ordinarily found in the visible church I answer the word preached is to be found also in the false church as among Papists Anabaptists Anabaptists c. as ordinarie if not more ordinarie then â—n many of youâ— assemblies and although there be not such or so many truthes â—aught among them as are among you yet the word that is taught hath effect for sanctâ—fication of life in as great measure as ordinarâ—ly appeareth in your Church of Engl. where so much profannes reigneth as all men see and know The church of Rome is as your selues prâ—feâ—â—e a falâ—e church yet doubt I not neyther doe I thinke you doubt but sundrie children haue been borne vnto God by that harlot The church of Enâ—land it as we professe a false church your Ministery also falâ—e yet God which brought light out of darknesse hath brought forth I doâ—bt not and saued many of his dear châ—ldren among you But let not thiâ— embolden the rest to continew with you in your false estâ—te least they finde no mercy with the Lord because they be children of fornications To your assumption then I answer as you first set it down I graunt it yet will not your conclusion follow for it may be a mother of the faithfull and yet no true visible church for the reason foreshewed But as you afterward explain your selfe saying the assumption is true because many aâ—e ordinarily new borne c. I deny it thus to be true because neyther is a new birth ordinarily to be had among you neither haue you Gods ordinance of preaching in publick vse and
comfort one another in the faith and feare of God whose power and presence they haue with them in all estates and places 44 So to conclude a true church is a sacred communiallty consociate and knit togither into a mistical body whose head is Christ whose members christians of any nation or condition whose soul is the word and whose spirit is the spirit of the liuing God who gathereth togither dry desolate bones layeth synewes on them makes flesh to grow and couereth them with skin and putteth breath in them that they may liue and stand vpon their feet an exceeding great army Vnto him for all his blessings be praise in his churches throughout all generations Amen Amen ARGVMENTS Disprouing the present estate and constitution of the CHVRCH of ENGLAND EVery true Church is the body of Christ and hath him for the head thereof For â—t is wrâ—tten God hath appoynted him ouer all â—hâ—ngs the head of the church which is his body Eph 1 22 23 and agayn to the church of Corinth it is sayd yâ— are the bâ—dy of Christ 1 Cor 12 27. But the church of England is not the body of Christ neyther hath him for the hâ—ad thereof Because it waâ— first constituted as now it standeth of the members of Antichrist namely the idolatrous Papâ—sts which openly professed Antichristian sme in Q. Maries dayes haâ—ing Abadden the Pope for their head and spilled much christian blood that they might mainteyn their Romish abominations Who all except some few that of themselues refused were at the beginning of Q. Elisabeths reign receâ—ued into the body of the church and so haue continued they and their seed euer since Yet did they not then enter in by repentance and faith in Christ which two things are the beginning and foundation of the kingdome of God but by the commandement of the Magistrate were compelled vnto the Church sacraments ministery c. which then were by law establâ—shed and euer since continewed Now the Magistrates law cannot work faith in any seing faith is the gift of God and by his word onely is wrought in mans hart So that the Magistrate though he ouâ—th to abolish idolatrâ—e and set vp Gods true worship to suppresse all errours and cause the truth to be taught yet cannot he constreyn men to ioyne vnto the church but they must doe it williâ—gly and gladly the Lord perswading them herevnto And these of whome we speak not being perswaded by the Lord and his word but â—s the worldly multitude alway is beâ—ng ready to receiue any religion the prince woâ—ld establish rather then they would suffer persecution wherein that their popish estate the body of Antichrist yet then compelled and vnâ—ted vnto this church Agayn not onely those that were popishly 〈◊〉 and superstitious but such also as were profane and irreligâ—ous atheists blasphemers whoremongers theeues drunkards witches and all other vngodly persons of which then were and still are too too many in the land these al though by reason of their wicked and miserable estate â—hey wâ—rlimmes of Satan and as the scripture calleth such children of the Diuill were yet receiued into the Church likeweise they and â—heir seed so continew as the state of that Church plainely sheweth For eâ—en to this day profane people mockers and contemners of religion thaâ— blasphem God and his holy name even in the streets as they walk such as cal themselues the donned crew Familists Atheâ—sts and all other sorts of miscreants and wicked liuers are members of the Church of Enâ—land vnited with the body and partakers of the sacraments and other holy actâ—ons of the same Now these children of wrath this sinnfull generation cannot possibly be members of the body of Christ nor haue him for their head seing they are not partakers of his life and spirit nor called to his faith neither admitteth he any such vnto him vntil they repent he hath no coÌ„cord with Belial therefore not with the children of Belial the members of his glorious body must not be the dead stâ—nking and abominable members of Satan Light and darknes heauen and hel will as soon be vnited togither Neyther will it be yenough to say that some are affected to reliâ—ion are of better life and conuersation c. and that for their sakes the residew are sanctâ—fied and may be ioyned vnto and reputed Christs body and Church for they that professe more sincerity yet are not come to a true â—rofeâ—sion of the Gospell or renoâ—ncing of Idolatrie but after theâ—r false and popish manner worship God with the rest remayning one body one Church with them Now we are taught of God that the religious are so farr from sanctifying the wicked as contrariweise the wicked doe pollute them whatsoeuer the vnclean person toucheth sayth the Lord shal be vnclean and the person which toucheth him shal be vncleane â— wherefore come out from among them and separate your selues and touch no vnclâ—ane thing and I will receiue you and I will be a Father vnto you and ye shal be my sonns and daughters sayth the Lord almighty So then the religious and well affected people must separate from the rest if they would be acknowledged of God for his and not think by their holynes to sanctify the profane Agayn it is as easy to make peace agreement between Christ the Diuil as between Christ and such open obstinate synners the children of the Diuill yea it ouerturneth at once the first promise of saluation made by God and so the uery ground of Christian religion For when God first promised redemption to mankind it was by Christ the seed of the woman that should crush the serpents head who in due time appeared for this purpose that he might loose the works of the Diuill destroy and abolish him And as then the Lord put enmity between Christ and the serpent so did he also between him and the serpents seed that is wâ—cked men which being children of the Diuill would take the Diuâ—ls part to hate and kill Christ and root out his châ—ldren and reliâ—ion accâ—rding to whâ—ch decree and word of his Father oâ—r Lord Iesus set himselfe not onely agaâ—nst the Serpent but against sâ—ch wicked men also as would not be turned from their impietie therefore he sayth by his proâ—hets Dâ—e not I hate them that hate thee ô Lorâ— c I hate thâ—m with an vnfeighned hatred as they were mynâ— vtter enemies I hate the assembly of eâ—il doers and company not with the wicked Betimâ—s wil I destroy all the wicked of thâ— land that I may cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord Three shepheards I cut of in one moneth and my sowl loathed loathed them and their sowl abhorred me with many such like speeches throughout the scriptures whereby Christ shewed how farr he was and would be from being head vnto
church because a great part of his word and scriptures and of the graces of his spirit are here neuer spoken nor heard nor suffred to be vttered and contrariweise much of mans word and writing is brought in as Aprocrypha books made of old the Seruice and homily books made of late in which also there be manifest errourâ— lâ—es contradictions to the holy scriptures idolatrous and and superstâ—tious doctrines rites ceremonses c. taught vnto and obserued by th' priests people an idle soul-murthering ministry maynteyned Chrâ—sts spirituall graces giuen for teaching and building vp his church quenched with other like evils The proof of this may be seen in their communioÌ„ book whose Kalender alotteth what is to be read dayly and yerely in all their Assemblies where many chapters of the Bible are wholly and perpetually excluded many Apocrypha chapters read as holy scriptures And by the written homilies the graces and vtterance of Gods spirit are extinguished that mans erroneus writing may come in place Besides this all preaching Ministers so limitted and restreyned in their doctrine that they may not preach against any sinn by publick authority establâ—shed and if they doe they are silenced excommunicated c. this indignity and dishonour Christ will not suffer at mans hands to haue his word and mans word matched together his spirit spirit truth restreyned he wil be Prophet aloÌ„e or not at al. as they that with the trâ—e God and his true worship had other Gods also other worships are sayd in scripture to forsake the true God and to bâ— without him so they that with the true Prophet and doctor Christ and his doctrine haue other also may rightly be sayd to haue forsaken him and to be wâ—thout him For when men set their thresholds by the Lords and their posts by his they defile his holy name with their abominations and in vayne they worship him that teach such doctrines as be precepts of men Moreover thiâ— Church wanteth part and communion with Christ in that propheticall office which he hath imparted to his peoâ—le namely power and freedom to witnes professe practise and hold forth the word of life and all that Christ hath commanded to admonish reproue one another for sinne and transgression and eyther if they repent to forgiue them or if they repent not to follow them further vnto the church and even to excommunication for their obstinate violating Gods law That they haue not power or freedome to professe and practise the truth of the Gospel in these things appeareth by their seruile subiection to the hierarchie lawes and canons which are amongst them whereby they are restreyned from professing and practising any further truth then is by law establâ—shed among them but must obey follow all that their spirituall Lords the Bishops doe inioyne them and may not speake against or reproue any of the abominatioÌ„s that ar in their church worship Ministery ceremonies c. neyther haue power to deal according to that rule of Christ Mat. 18 15. c for any sinne be it never so horrible and manifest but must leaue it to the censure of the Prelate or hiâ— Commissarie who at his pleasure buyeth and selleth the sins and soules of men This bondage the people should not be in if they had and inioyned the word of God which is the truth for that truth would make them free that they should not in this sort be seruants of men But now not haâ—ing power to professe much lesse to practise the truth nor to reproue the euils that reign among them not hauing the free vse of Gods word in priuate nor the right and lawfull Ministery or vse therof in publick they cannot be sayd to haue Christ for their Prophet and Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true Church of God hath Christ for the Priest and Sacrificer of the sâ—me for he onely is the high Priest of our profession and to him it was sworne thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedek Heb 3 1 5.5 6 10 9 11. c. But the Church of England hath not Christ for the Priest or sacrificer of the sâ—me Because the gifts and sacrifices which it offreth vnto God are not presented and offred vnto him by Christ neyther is this church reconciled reconciled vnto God by him And first the worship and seruice which they performe vnto God their prayers prayses and confeâ—sions which now are Christâ—an mens sacrifices are not offred and sanctified by Christ because they are false and idâ—lâ—trous wherewith Christ hath no communion For â—nstead of true spirâ—tuall prayer and prayses the fruits of Gods spirit in his â—eoâ—le they read a written leiturgie translated out of the Masse book and accordâ—ng as they are stinted in the same they speak obserâ—ing also the many Popish ordinances râ—tes and ceremonies commanded in the same as their holy and festivall dayes holy eues and fasting dâ—yes absolutioÌ„ of sinns by their priests confirmatioÌ„ of Baptisme by theâ—r Prelates profanation of the Sacraments by priâ—ate administration and howsling with them by gossips by idolatrous signes and gestures of croâ—â—e kneeling c. also marying by the Priest with signe of the ring churching of womeÌ„ burial of the dead readâ—ng curses or comminations in stead of discipline besides the sundry errours and vntruthes in that book vayn repetâ—tions in their prayers and the like All which being commanded and vsed dayly by law of their church without ground from Gods word which approueth none of these idolatries but condemneth them are not sanctified by Christ nor presented vnto God hiâ— Father For he will not offer the idol sacrifices neyther will God accept such things as by his law he teacheth all men to abhorr Secondly whereas the bodyes and sowles of men are also spiritual and liâ—ing sacrifices and the persons offred in the Church by the Ministeâ—y of the Gospel should be as the holy flâ—ck as the flock of Ierusalem in their solemne feasts that so the oblation of them might be acceptable being sanctified by the holy Ghost the people offred in this church are a confuse vnsanctified mâ—ltitude not separated from the world as before in the first argument is shewed and many of them so wicked even by the confeâ—sion of their own ministers and in every honest mans conscience as they neyther deseru to be layd on Gods alter nor to be touched of any true Israelite in such respect Yet ar they by the Priests of this church offred dayly vnto God in their administration and blessed in his name Yea the precious sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ remembred and reâ—resented by bread and wine at his supper is prostitutâ—â— as if it were an vnholy thing to the prophane and wicked in this church which being vnworthy receiuers are
mentioneth shew little or none at all wise men will esteem them accordingly But if such a Diuine as Bredwel doe but call our curse a by-path this sentence is authentik yenough for Mr Bern to put in his book The 6. is the Lords iudgement giuing sentence with them of England against vs. These things as they are before more prudently urged both for the good successe of the English ministers and bad ysâ—ue of many of vs so I leaue the reader vnto the answers before made pag 13. c 23. c. Onely I would advise Mr Bern. to look better to his words when he next write and not to set down such positions as may tend to Atheisme or Iudaisme as wherein his brother Boltons case that hanged himself he Sayth which end the Lord letteth not his speciall instruments to come vnto c. A Iew vpon this graunt would trouble Mr Bernard to defend Christianity seeing Iudas hanged himself who was a farr more speciall instrument of the Lord being an Apostle then Bolton that was but a ruling Elder and not the first brocher of this way as Mr Bern. very vntruely vpon Mr Giffords report if he so reported doth allege Besides that Iudas after a sort repented and acknowledged his sinne and was not that we know of excommunicate yet came to that woefull end wheras Bolton for revolting from his faith at Paules crosse was dealt with excommunicated and so died for ought that is knowen without repentance a member of Mr Bernards church See before pag. 23. The 7. is the ill successe it hath had these very many yeares being no more increased The naturall man perceiueth not the things of God but iudging by the outward appearance giues vnrighteous iudgement If M. Bernard had liued in Noahs dayes and seen his 120. yeares labours and preaching spent in vayn how would he haue stumbled at the work of God that gaue his word no other effect in the world And loe it is written as it was in the dayes of Noe so shall it be in the Dayes of the Son of man But had Mr Bern. bene in the dayes following when Israel very few in number walked from nation to nation from one kingdome to an other people and notwithstanding the promise of multiplication yet in 200. yeares and moâ— had increased but vnto 70. sowles and as many moe yeares were in Aegyptian bondage and had he in the mean while seen the Princes of Israel and Dukes of Esau with the Kings that raigned in his land before any King in Israel how would this man may we think haue gathered likelihoods or rather haue concluded out of doubt against the poor afflicted church of God But it is no new thing to hear this pleading from such carnall gospellers Wel not totell him of Gods gracious work in bringing many to this truth and causing moe to listen after it dayly let Mr Bern. look to himselfe and his fellow Reformists and if his right eye be not blent let him acknowledge Gods hand aâ—ainst themselâ—es who heretofore had so many fautors and that not of the meanest in the land yet now are repressed as troublers of the church and their counterfeyt reformation further from all likelihood of effecting then was at the first And this much of his vnlikely likelihoods Of his REASONS HIS reasons now follow of more force as he pretends then his bare probabilities These are three fold taken 1 from the evill of the entraÌ„ce in to this way 2 from our persons so greueously sinning in this way 3 from our opinions which are altogether erroneous and false The first sort of reasons haue this foundation The entrance is very sinful and cursed Because of these 2 great evils 1 That we doe not onely condemn corruptions and the notorius wicked but also forsake all former Christian profession amongst them A man must cast off that word there with them which made them aliue also the faithfull messengers of God the Fathers which begat him yea he must renounce all fellowship of the godly there c. But we may with the Prophet truely complayn of this man that his mouth is full of cursing and deceit and frawd for how often haue we in our publick writings protested our consent in all the holy doctrines that themselues professe onely because we cannot enioy them without Antichristian abominations which the Prelates impose and the Priests and people practise we haue separated from those assemblies where idolatry is publickly set vp and maynteined from those blinde guides that would seem to make concord between light and darknes Christ and Beliall and vnder shew of many truthes seduce mens sowles vnto destruction Did the church of England forsake all former christian profession among the Papists when they left the Pope and some of his Prelates Masse images c. If not then neyther doe we that haue left but the remnants of Popery yet reteyned and doe walke in the truth to our knowledge and utmost power as God inableth vs not casting off any jote of his word nor any faithfull messenger of his or other godly person as this adversary calumniateth His hart knowes better though it sendeth forth such bitter waters 2. Next this he sayth with such a renunciation of truth must be reteyned much vntruth the particulars are 1 that men must beleeu our way to be the truth of God 2 and then condemn their church as a false church Whether our way be not the truth of God let the Godly iudge by his word by it also let them try the estate of the church of England But Mr Bern. begging the question will haue things to be taken for untruthes before triall or due conviction To help himselfe he seekes advantage by that we haue published as he sayth vnder our hand that the differrences between vs and them are onely such corruptions as are by vs set downe Though the word onely be not ours but Mr Bern. own yet to let this passe as ordinary with him what gathers he from it Corruptions saith he doe not makâ— a false church but a corrupt church make the worst of it that can be as corruptions in a man maketh but a corrupt man and not a false man First let the reader obserue that he speaks not a word of those corruptions which we set down neyther indeed is he able with our corruption to plead for them Secondly it is very corrupt and grosse that he would perswade no corruptions can make a church to be false for then rebellious Israel though they corrupted al their works was a true chuch still but Moses foretold that for corrupting themselues they should be none of Gods children but a froward and crooked generation Now let Mr Bern make the best of it he can His simillitude of a man is not fit in this case A man is a substance but a church consisteth in relation
them to be the uery shrines of idols and lyable to the Curse Thus are we come to an end with M Bernard passing by his impertinent discourses which in his rouing he ran into leauing him also for his unchristian reproches and iniurious calumniations to the mercy or iudgment of the Lord who behold commeth with ten thowsâ—nds of his Saincts to giue iudgment against all men and to rebuke all the vngodly among them of all their wicked deeds which they haue wickedly committed and of all their cruâ—l speakings which wicked sinners haue spokeâ— against him THE MINISTERS POSITIONS SHAKEN THere is added to Mr Bernards book an other work intituled CERTAIN POSITIONS held and maynteined by some godly ministers of the gospel against those of the separation and namely against Barrow Greenwood The groundwork whereof is thus layd That the Church of England is a true Church of Christ and such a one as from which whosoeuer wittingly and continually separateth himselfe cutteth himselfe â—ff from Christ I will not stand vpon the consequences that may be made of this position whereby all that abhorrâ—ng the abominations in that church and so separating from it are quite cut off from Christ whatsoeuer truth they profeâ—â—e and walke in or whatsâ—euer other church they ioyne vnto but I will insist in a brieâ— answer to that which these Ministers bring to proue this their peremtory sentence and they be 4. reasons 1 For that they enioy and ioyne togither in the use of those outward meanes which God in his word hath ordâ—yned for the gathering of an inuisible Church that is preaching of the gospel and administration of the sacraments 2. For that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith 3. For that thâ—y hold and teach c. all truthes fundamental 4. For that all known churches in the world acknowledge that church for theâ—r sister and giue vnto her the right hand of fellowship These things haue been before handled in this treatise and the weakneâ—â—e of them discouered yet because it may be thought new men will make new arguments and many heads together bring forth deep counsels let us weigh what these godly ministers haue here sayd For proof of the first poynt they doe allege that the meanes which they vse and enioy haue been effectuall to the vnfained conuersion of many as may appear both by the other fruites of faith that may be found amongst them and by the martyrdome which sundry haue enduâ—ed c yea euen we our selues are able to witnes with them that if there be any true faith and sanctification in us it was begun and bred in thâ—ir assemblies Secondly that if Mat. â—8 18.20 Eph. 4 11.12.14 be well examined it wilâ—e found that the meanes which Christ ordeyned for the gathering of an inuisible church are the very same which they enioy euen the preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments I answer All this that they say will not proue their Position namely that the church of England which consisteth of the whole nation diuided in to many dioceses and parishes vnder one or two Archbishops c. is a true church of Christ. For the Papists boast of all these things as colourable and as truely as these ministers Their priests haue conuerted many from Pagenisme Iudaisme and profanenes of life their church hath had many martyrs Luther and others that first left them had their faith begun in their assemblies c. and whatsoeuer Ministery is in England from the Archprelate to the halfe priest the Papists haue amongst them yea Engl. had it from them And it is to be admired that these godly ministers can allege nothing for their church but such old popish stales How vainely they assume these things vnto themselues hath been shewed befoâ—e fruits of faith appear noâ— in their confuse assemblies whâ—re God is publâ—ckly dishonoured by false worship his enemies profane wicked people fostered and bleâ—sed with his most holy things and Antichristian prelates and Canons obeyed Were it as they say that many haue been conuerted is that â—enough to make all the church We haue testimonies from their own mouthes that there be swarmes and thowsands of profane irreligeous atheists blasphemers and open wicked liuers Mr Gifford a champion of their own hath confessed and printed it that through want and absence of â— sincere ministery there is a flood of ignorance and darknesse ouerflowing the most part of the land the fear of God is banished from the greatest part the wonderfull heaps and piles of sinne which should be washed and clensed away by the word doe undoubtedly with one voyce cry alowd in the eares of the Lord for veâ—geance vpon the whole realm c Shal now a few supposed conuerts makâ— all this rowt a Christian church It is impiety and an ouerthrow of the Gospell Gen. 3.15 2 Cor. 6.14 18 Mat 15.13 Reu. 21..2 3.27 and 28.15 What meane these Ministers to boast so much of their martyrs whose blood cries against them in the eares of the Lord of hosts For did not their church kill them Let one of themselues speake in this case least we be thought partiall Who knoweth not sayth Mr Nichols how much blood of Gods Saincts was spilt in former ages and how many howses were guilty of blood And when did this land serioâ—sly and sincerely humble it selfe by â—pen repentance make reconciliation for the same Nay rather how many thowsands repined at the happy reign of her maiesty for the casting out of the idolatrous and superstitious worship of God and for the establishing of his holy namâ— and the liberty in preaching of the Gâ—spell This testimony is known to bâ— true the greater is their sinne that now plead for such a people to be a true Church of God Shall the Cainites be honoured for Abels martyrdom or the Iewes for crucifying Christ then also may the bloody genâ—tion of Papists be canonized for Saincts and made members without râ—pentance of a christian church And for these ministers let them heart and make vse of Christs words to their predecessors Woe unto you for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets and your fathers killed them Truly yâ— bear witnes and allow the deeds of your fathers for they killed them and yâ— build their sepulchres Fulfil ye also the measure of your Fathers It is a slight and simple kinde of reasoning to tel us if those scriptureâ— Mat. 28. Eph. 4. be well examined it will be found that the meanes which Christ ordeyned for the gathering of an inuisible church ar the uery same which they inioy First what doting Friar will not say this much for his popish Synagogue Then why doe not these ministers bring the meanes they boast of to the examination by these scriptures is it yenough think they to the examination by these scriptures is it yenough thinke they to cite a text or two and then ran away The
hierarchâ—e worship ceremonies ordinances church constitution c. which things can neuer be approued by the word of God are yet held and vpheld taught and mainteyned in the church to the excommunicating and persecuting of all such as speake against them or refuse to communicate with them This sinfull mixture and maintenance of so much antâ—christian error with the christian truthes that they profeâ—â—e is no true Christian profession and practise of our obedience vnto the fundamentall truth of the gospell neyther can the ministers proue that these contraries will stand together when account shal be giuen before the iudgment seat of Christ. Secondly I answer as to their former reason that although some Bishops and Priests haue written Articles Catechismes c. yet are not these approuâ—d much lesse walked in by the church of Engl. neyther are the people rooted bâ—ilded and stablished in the faith according to Colos. 2. but are diâ—â—olute and profane in their conuersation rooted in uices and stablished in iniquitis as lameÌ„table experience teacheth all men as the testâ—monâ—es of their own ministers before alleged proue and many other we might allege and must if these men still continue to vrge that which is knowne to be farr otherweise For how well their people doe walke in the faith of the foundation Christ and approue of all fundamentall truthes in the scriptures let these testimonies of their own freinds shew The most part of your honest men saith Mr Gifford to and of his brethren now a dayes delight so much in the word of God and meditate so much in it that they care not a button though they neuer heare it they loue it and set as much by it as they doe by an old sâ—â—e Euery man sayth an other followeth the pride couetousnes whordome dronkennes of his owne hart and no man remembreth Ioseph The barrs are filled with pleadings the streets are full of cries of the poor fulnes of meat and contempt is among vs and who considereth Yet if this our sinne were onely against men and not against God there â—ight be some hope But when the mouth of the blâ—spemous swearer is not tiâ—d vp and the hands of the idolatrous generation of Atheists and profane persons be not chained when the most holy and precious word of God is manifestly contemned the ioyfull and heauenly tidings of saluation so negligently and vngratefully troden vnder foot the true and faithfull messengers pursued arraygnned and diuers wayes â—fflicted then if the old world for malicious imaginations Sodome and Gomora for pride fulnes of meat and vnmercifulnes if Ierusalem for abusing Gods Prophets and wilfulnesse were woefully destroyed what may we poor carelesse People look for it we doe not repent but as it is almost vniuersally feared spâ—edy ruine and vtter desolation The exceptions which these Godly ministers take against Mr Barrowes writings and yet professe not to answer them need not now to be stood vpon till the particulars whereby he hath discouered their errors and euill dealings be by them taken away They further taxe note it in him as a strange opinion and an error full grosse mainteyned in pag. 156.157 of his Discouery vidz that euery truth conteyned in the scripture is fundamentall But the grossnes or crossnes wil be found in themselus for that which Mr Barrow there inueigheth against was this that though transgressions and errors be obstinately continued in and openly taught after they be reproued and conuinced by the word of God yea and the parties dye in that estate without repentance of these transgressions or errors yet may they hold the foundation and be vadoubtedly saued Of this minde were and still continue sayth he fiue of the very principal and best esteemed ministers of Engl. both for learning and conscience although there were alleged against the same these expresse scriptures Num. 15.30 31. Exod. 23.21 1 Sam. 15.22.23 Ezek. 18.26 Mat. 5 18 19 Iam. 2 10. c. This was the thing that M Bar. there bet down shewing further that if the whole scripture was giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to conuince to correct to instruct in righteousnes if it be the groundwork and foundatioÌ„ of the church of our fayth if it be the law and rule of our life the light of our eyes c. If euery word of God be holy pure perpetuall then is this deep learning of theyrs diuilish and blasphemous that thus to colour and couer their wickedness make some part of gods word fundamentall substantiall necessary other accidentall superficiall needlesse especially where it sheweth reproueth and condemneth their doings c Now what say these ministers against this plea they plainly yeild in effect to th'truth which they could with no coulour gainsay we beleeu say they and teach that there is no Part of holy scripture which euery Christian is not necessarily bound to seek desire knowledge of so far sorth as in him lyeth Very wel sayd had they added also this word obeyed which I suppose they would be thought to intimate there would be no difference between M Barrow and them though thus they would traduce him But least they should seeme to condemne themselues they except yet dare we not cal euery truth fundamentall that is such as if it be not knowne and obeyed the whole religion and fayth of the church must needs fall to the ground and agayne we doubt not that some parts are of more vse and more necessary for men to know then othersome In these things excepting the word fundamentall which seemeth to be but strife about a word We agree with them neyther doth Mr Barrow that I can perceiue disagree for it is one thing not to know and obey euery truth as they speake and another thing to know as hauâ—ng reproofe and conuiction by the word of God and yet to disobey and rebel against the truth and continue obstinately in transgreâ—sion which was the poynt in hand And for the world fundamentall seing all Gods testimonies are true and Dauid sayth that the Lord hath founded them for euer I see no cause why we need be afraid to call euery trâ—th fundamentall that is such as is firme and stable and on which we shovld ground and builde our faith and actions vp on alwayes Yet seing now what these ministers vnderstand by the word I will not striue Also M Barrow himselfe in his Obseruations vpon Mr Giffâ—rds last reply telleth him that he denyeth not in vse of speech such distinction so much as withstand such eronius abuse of that distinction which M. Gifford and other deuines of these tymes would infer thereof And in deed the simple are much beguiled by this subtile distinction For when the sinns and idolatrâ—es of these Priests are blamed answer is made though they be sinns yet are they not fundamentall they cut vs not off from Christ we hold him the foundation and
also command and compell all the world to be ioyned vnto the church And thus the world and the church between whom there hath been perpetuall warr mought soon be reconciled If this be a lawfull and orderly course it is strange that Christ sent forth poor fishermen to conuert sowles by preaching and set not the princes which he could as easily have done seing he had al power in heauen in earth to make disciples by compulsion and penalty Now for the parable they allege it is apparant that the same seruant was sent to compell that was before sent to call the inuited and if this be meant of the Magistrate then kings must leaue gouerning and goe to preaching We finde in the scripture that compulsion is not alwayes by the ciuill sword but sometime by instant and earnest vrging of the word and doctrine as they that compelled the Galatians to be circumcised and he that compelled the Gentiles to Iudaize And from this word compell to vrge or gather a ciuill forced compulsion is with no more reason or colour then as if some factious rebells should take vp armes for to stablish religion and allege how it is written the kingdome of heauen suffreth violence and the violent take it by force For as force and violence here is not ciuill but spiritual so is compulsion to be taken in the parable But a throne sayth Solomon gets vp in a dronkards hand and a parable in the mouth of fools Prou. 26.9 They allege that the first conuersion of our land to the faith of Christ was by preaching of the gospell Whether this were so or not remayneth for them to proue in their next book for in this they doe it not They must I suppose take the preaching of the gospel in a large sense if they will proue it For as it is vncertayn what was the fayth of the ancient Brittaines or how they were converted so for the English Saxons which were conuerred from Paganisme Mr Bale one of their own writers saith that Austen the Roman was sent as an Apostle from Gregory 1. to conuert them to a popish fayth And by an other Chronicler we learne that Pope Gregorie 1. sent this Austen the monk into Engl. with fourty monks moe which entred the ile of Thennet on the east side of Kent with a crosse with banners displayed hauing a crucifix painted vpoÌ„ every one of them singing the Letany with Orate pro nobis to al Angels Archangels Patriarches Prophets Priests Apostles Martyrs Confessors Virgins Monks Nunns Heremites and finally to all hee Saincts and shee Saincts that they might haue good luck and wel to fare in setting forth their Romish religion But howsoeuer the conuersion of English men was then which is not now to be stood vpon till we hear the testimony of the best approued histories which these men say they haue for their assertion it is sure by the scripures that the churches in Rome Corinth and many other places were conuerted by the gospell yet remayn they not true churches still But say these ministers since that time many haue from age to age been called by the same means And so say I hath there been in Rome yet is she a harlot and not Christs spowse Great numbers say they were effuectally called in K. Edwards dayes I answer the whole land was compelled by ciuill force to change their forme of seruice in part and sundry true doctrines were taught in some places which some beleued but many disobeyed and rebelled as before is shewed Neyther was that confuse popish multitude with a few conuers therein a true visible church Mr Fox describeth the estate thereof by a similitude a a new face of things began now sayth he to appear as it were in a stage new players comming in and the old being thrust out Thus vpon that old stage of the popish church came new players to weet new Bishops Priests and the masse was then at first still by law reteyned but the gospel and Epistle read in English yet were not all new players for as is ther noted the preists and clergie that yeilded to the kings lawes were suffred to keep thâ—ir places liuings c. After this the king appoynted the c Archbishop of Cant with other Bishops c. to make one conuenient and meet order rite and fashion of common prayer and administration of Sacraments c. who did so Then in the Parliament following it was agreed that all ministers in the realm should be bound to say and vse the mattins euensong celebrating of the Lords supper c. in such order and form as was mentioned in the sayd book and none other or otherweise But the players it seemeth played not their parts well for after complaint is made how by the cloked contempt wil full winking and stubborne disobedience of Bishops and old Popish curates the book of common prayer was long after the publishing thereof eyther not knowne at all or els very irreverently vsed through many places of the realm Yet was there no great cause why the people should so despise it for as the K. answered to the rebels of Deuonsh if the seruice in the church was good in Latin it remayneth good in English for nothing is altered but to speak with knowledge that which was spoken in ignorance Now let the reader minde what was the estate of the church in those dayes and see if the word of God will approve it But there were say these men great numbers by preaching so effectually called that in Q Maries reign many sealed the truth with their blood I acknowledge it and say also that as there haue many martyrs died heretofore in the Popish church so I doubt not but great numbers at this day are by preaching so effectually called in Rome Spayn c. that if Turks or Pagans should preuayl ouer them they would mainteyn seal Christian religion with their blood rather then submit to Mahomet For as one of your best ministers hath truely sayd God of his infinite goodnesse who câ—lleth thyngs that are not as though they were even in that ministery hath giuen grace vnto his Saincts it was impossible that the man of sinne should so much adulterat the word of God but that it should be to the faithfull a gospel of salvation It is further alleged h there were sundry secret congregations all Q Maries dayes which gladly receiued the gospell offred by Q. Eliz. say thes ministers if it be sayd that they ceased to be the tru churchs of Christ becaus they ioyned became one body with such as were newly come and that not of conscience but for fear onely from idolatrie we answer that they rather that-had fallen from the Gospel in Q. Maries dayes were moued by Q Eliz proclamation to ioyne themselues vnto them that had stood faithfully all that while Here is still building