and good workes shew their coÌ„uersion not only by wordes but in deed and in trueth c. With them the Byshop maie deale more gently whereas those that thinke it is sufficient onely to enter into the Church are charged in any wise to keepe the ordinary time c. Wherefore he that gathereth that paines are due to sinnes after remission of them by example of them that remitted no sinnes but after sufficient paines suffered for them or amendes made for them I holde him not onely malitious blinde but beastly vnreasonable 4 And if any man yet doubt why or to what end the Church of Christ thus greuousely tormenteth her owne children by so many meanes of heuy correction whome she might by good authoritie freely release of their sinnes let him assuredly know that she coulde not so satisfie Gods iustice alwayes by whome she holdeth her authoritie to edifie and not to destroye to bynd as well as to loose Although such dolour for offensies committed and so earnest zele may she sometimes finde in the offender that her chiefe and principall pastors may by their soueraigne authoritie wholy discharge him of all paines to come But els in the commoÌ„ case of Christian men this penaunce is for no other cause enioyned but to saue them from the more greuous torment in the worlde following In the which sense S. Augustine both speaketh him selfe and proueth his meaning by the Apostles wordes as followeth Propterea de quibusdam temporalibus poenis quae in hac vita peccantibus irrogantur eis quorum peccata delentur ne reseruentur in finem ait Apostolus si enim nosmetipsos iudicaremus a domino noÌ„ iudicaremur Cum iudicamur autem a domino corripimur ne cum hoc mundo dâ—mnemur Therefore sayth he it is of certaine temporall afflictions which be laid vpon their neckes that being sinners haue their trespasses pardoned lest they be called to an accompt for them at the latter ende that the Apostle meaneth by when he sayth If we woulde iudge our selues we shoulde not then be iudged of our lord And when we be iudged of our Lord then are we chastened that we be not damned with the worlde This onely carefull kindnesse of our mother therefore that neuer remitted sinne that was notorious in any age but after sharp punishment or earnest charge with some proportionall penaunce for the same doth not onely geue vs a louing warning to beware and preuent that heuie correction of the worlde to come which S. Paule calleth the iudgement of God because it is a sentence of iustice but also in her owne practise here in earth of mercy in pardoning of iustice in punishment she geueth vs a very cleare example of both the same to be vndoubtedly looked for at the handes of God him selfe by whome in the kingdome of the Church these both in his behalfe be profitably practised For if there were no respect of the dredfull day in the ende of our life nor any paine further due for sinnes remitted in the next world then were it cruell arrogancy in the ministers to charge men with penaunce needlesse to the offender and foly to the sufferer But God forbid any shoulde be so malipert or misbeleuing as to miscredit the doinges and doctrine of the Catholike Church which by the authoritie she hath to binde sinnes and the protection of the holy Ghost hath vsed this rodde of correction to the profit of so many and hurte of none euer sence our maisters death and departure 4 Marke here gentle reader what an absolute power of remissioÌ„ of sinns this Papist doth ascribe to the Church that she might he sayth by good authority freely release men of their sinnes with out satisfying of Gods iustice but that she will not except in some case where she findeth such dolour and zeale in the offender that her chiefe and principall Pastors may by there soueraine authoritie wholy discharge him of all paines to come Marke here the soueraigne authoritie of the Pope not subiect no not to the iustice of god For els how should the Popes pardons stand or Christes merites be excluded if the Pope had not power to doe by his soueraigne authority that Christ coulde not doe by his bitter passion to discharge penitent sinners of all paines to come you see therefore that the Popish church is not as a wife subiect to Christ her spouse to exercise on earth the authoritie of Christ in heauen according to his will but a presumptuous harlot to claime soueraigne authoritie in earth wherevnto he is bounde which is in heauen For otherwise though the olde fathers that were most earnest in maintaining the Churches authoritie as Cyprian Sermo de lapsis speaking against theÌ„ which thought it was sufficient if they were receiued by the ordinary authoritie of the Church although they were not truely penitent writeth thus Nemo se fallat nemo decipiat Solus dominus misereri potest veniam peccatis quae in ipsum commissa sunt solus potest ille largiri qui peccata nostra portauit qui pro nobis doluit quem Deus tradidit pro peccatis nostris Homo Deo esse non potest maior nec remittere aut donare indulgentia sua seruus potest quod in dominum delicto grauiore commissum est ne adhuc lapso hoc accedat ad crimen si nesciat esse praedictum Maledictus homo qui spem habet in homine Dominus orandus est dominus nostra satisfactione placandus est qui negantem negare se dixit Let no man sayth he deceiue him selfe let no man begile him selfe It is onely the Lorde that can shew mercy Onely he can graunt pardon to offenses that are coÌ„mitted against him who hath borne our sinnes Who hath suffered sorrow for vs whome God hath geuen for our sinnes A man can not be greater then God neither can the seruaunt by his indulgence remit or forgeue that which by so great offence is committed against the Lorde lest this offence also be added to him that is fallen away if he know not that it is fore shewed Cursed is that man that putteth his trust in man The Lorde must be intreated the Lorde must be pacified with our satisfaction which sayth he doth deny that man that denieth him In these wordes Cyprian not onely plainely denieth that absolute soueraigne authoritie of men which M. Allen affirmeth but also declareth what he meaneth by satisfactioÌ„ of god Namely that those which counterfected repentaunce and though by some outwarde obseruations to satisfie the Church might know they had to doe with God who was not pleased but with inwarde and harty conuersion whose knowledge they must satisfie with true repentaunce in deede as they seeke to satisfie iudgement of the Church by externall signes and tokens thereof But to returne to the common case of Christian men for the Popes cases be out of the common case of christen men M. Allen sayth penaunce and by penaunce he
you must repeat that which is nothing like to your matter Paula was penitent for her sinnes with prayers almes and fasting and all for feare of purgatory So sayth M. Allen. But Ieronyme sayth not so M. Allen is here all the credit of the matter beleue him as you list But if any man had rather beleue Chrysostome speaking of such kind of workes as M. Allen and his fellowes count to be the chiefe workes of penaunce whether they serue for satisfaction for our sinnes vnto God let him consider what he writeth in his treatise de compunctione cordis lib. 2. Non requirit Deus ciliciorum pondus neque concludi inter angustias cellulae neque in obscuris antris tencbrosis sedere iubet hoc solum est quod exposcatur à nobis vt semper recordemur mala nostra c. God requireth not the burden of heauy garments not to be shut vp with the streights of a litle cell neither doth he commaund vs to sit in obscure and darke dungeons or dennes this onely is that which is required of vs that we should alwayes remember our euill life c. you see therefore by Chrysostoms iudgement that neither the satisfaction of Gods righteousnes nor any obedience of Gods commaundement hath banished the Heremites closed vp the Anachorets and cloyed the world with cloysterers but the superstitious and slauish feare of purgatory the blasphemous presumptuous pride of mens merites I passe ouer as not proper to your matter that for the honour of Christ you except his mother from confessing her selfe to be indebted to God and not to be in the numbre of those by whome the Lordes prayer is to be sayd Such honor neither doth God allowe her nor she arrogate vnto her selfe but acknowledgeth her owne basenesse and ioyfully accepteth Gods saluation It is greater honor to Christ to be sauiour of his mother then to haue such a mother as had no neede of his saluation He him selfe more then once is reade to haue reproued her wherein he had done her wrong if she had committed no trespasse Luke 2. Iohn 2. 6 But list you see how this doctrine of penaunce liked Caluine The shrew saw that by graunting of this satisfaction for sinne and the profitable vsage thereof in this life that it might argue of necessitie the residue of some paines in the next if it were here omitted or not ended And therefore I pray you see how substantially he aunswereth and how like him selfe Parumme mouent sayth he quae in veterum scriptis de satisfactione passim occurrunt video enim eorum nonnullos dicam simpliciter omnes fere quorum libri extant aut in hac parte lapsos esse aut nimis aspere dure loquutos I make small accompt of that which I often finde concerning Satisfaction in the auncient writers for I perceiue diuers of them shall I be plaine with you in a maner euery one that euer wrote till this daye in this point to haue bene fouly deceiued or spoken more roughly then they shoulde haue done Is not this a fellow a lone whether thinke you now our English bragger craking all the doctors to be on his parte or this man confessing plainely that they be all against him and yet setting not a butten by them all whether thinke you is more arrogant I am sure Caluine dealeth here more sincerely and the other more deceitfully If craking had bene a maisterie in sommer games as lying is our man might haue wone of all the worlde two games at a clappe But there is no remedy he must yelde to the learned that haue opened his impudencie Therefore I leaue him and take the benefit of this his maisters confession for further confirmatiō of my cause doubting nothing but that most wise men seeing by the aduersaries graunt all learned fathers to be on our side will accept it either as a full proofe or no small presumption of that trueth which we defend 6 But list you heare how this presumptuousse pratler can not conclude his chapter which he began with lying vpon Melancthon but by slaundering of Caluine He faineth that Caluine in the wordes by him rehersed confesseth all the doctors to be against him and yet setteth not a butten for them all The best reproofe of this calumniation shal be to sende them that be desirous to know the trueth vnto the whole discourse of Caluine vpon satisfaction Insti lib. 3. cap. 4 which who so list to doe shall plainely see whether Allen doth him not here open wrong But because euery man either can not for the lacke of the booke or will not for want of good affections towardes Caluine take so much paines as to peruse his owne writing I will aunswere in a worde or two After that Caluine hath most substantially proued both by authority of holy Scripture and also by consent of auncient doctors that their is no satisfaction vnto God for our sinnes but onely the death of Christ he cōmeth at length to speake of the worde of satisfaction which sayth he as it is often vsed in the olde writers so sometime hardely as improperly that M. Allen calleth roughly or if any of them haue erred about satisfaction it were not reason that their error shoulde preuaile against the open trueth And cleerely to conuicte M. Allen of a loude lye where he sayth that Caluine confesseth all the doctors to be against him his wordes follow immediatly after those rehersed by M. Allen Sed non credam eos ipsos adeo fuisse rudes imperitos vt eo sensu illa scripserint quo à nouis istis satisfactionariis legūtur That is how soeuer they haue either erred or spoken vnproprely of satisfaction yet I will not graunt that the same men were so rude and ignoraunt that they did wright those thinges in that sense in which they are read by these new satisfactionaries Then doth he bring forth diuers testimonies both out of Chrysostome and Augustine to shew what their iudgement was of satisfaction agreable to the Scriptures by which must be expounded what so euer they haue vttered that seemeth either erroneus or at the lest vnproprely spoken As for that reuerend father M. Iewell whome this arrogant Louanist calleth the English bragger how well he hath answered his challendge his owne learned labors do more cleerely testifie vnto the worlde then that it can be blemished by this sycophants braynlesse babling A briefe ioyning in reason and argument vpon the proued groundes vvith the aduersaries for the declaration of Purgatory CAP. V. 1 HAving vndoubtedly wonne thus much both by euidēt testimony of holy writ by the warraunt of all the learned fathers by good reason and by the aduersaries owne confession I will be bolde to bare the very iointes of the argument that both the simple may acknowledge my plaine dealing and the Protestant haue his vauntage if the reason stand not vpright VVith out colour or glose then thus I make my proofe
white as snowe beholding the purity that is requisite for a citizen of the celestiall Hierusalem And I note this the rather of the soule because I see that the body also before it can shake of the stroke and plague of sinne must be driuen by the common course to dust and elementes that being at the ende raised vp againe in the same substance may yet wholy in condicion and quality be so straungely altered that in honour and immortalitie it may euerlastingly ioyne with the soule againe To the newnesse whereof the very elements that before aunswered it in qualities of corruption shal be perfectly by fire reformed and serue in beauty and incorruption eternall If sinne then be so reuenged and throughly tryed out of mans body and all corruption out of these elements for the glory of that new and eternall kingdome shall we doubte of Gods iustice in the perfect reuenge of sinne in the soule or purifying that nature which as it was most corrupted was the very feate of sinne so namely apperteineth to the company of Angels and glory euerlasting It were not otherwise agreable to Gods iustice surely nor conuenient for the glorious estate to come it were neither right nor reason He will then where man neglecteth the day of mercy sharply viset with torment him selfe and both purge and purifie the drosse of our impure natures defiled and stained by sinne with iudgement and rightuousnesse Abluet Dominus sordes filiarum Syon sanguinem Hierusalem lauabit de medio eius in spiritu iudicij spiritu ardoris Our Lorde shall washe out the filthe of the daughters of Syon and will cleanse bloude from the middest of Hierusalem in the spirite of iudgement and the spirite of burning But because we will not stande vpon coniectures in so necessary a point you shall see by what Scriptures the graue and learned fathers haue to my hand confirmed this beleued trueth And first I will recite those places which do set forth both the quality and condition of that punishment which God taketh vpon man for sinne in the other worlde and also did giue iust occasion to our forefathers of the name of Purgatory 2 Consider what wholsome doctrine this student in Diuinitie gathereth out of the Scriptures of god Dauid not content with remission of his sinnes seeketh to be better clensed to haue them wholy blotted out and to be made as white as snowe â–ª but by what meanes M. Allen or at whose handes Dare you say that he prayeth God to clense him better by his owne suffering then he was by Gods mercifull pardon What was figured by the bunch of Isope dypped in the lambes bloud with which he desireth to be sprinckled assuring him selfe that therby he shall be washed whiter then snowe Was it purgatory or the aspertion of the bloud of Christ O horrible blasphemer wilt thou neuer acknowledge the omnisufficiency of the benefite of mans redemption by the sonne of God shal thy vayne gangling and iumbling of thy deuises with Gods decrees obscure the glory of our Lord and Sauiour Christ his passion who hath loued vs and washed vs from our sinnes by his bloud and made vs Kings and Priestes in the sight of God who hath geuen him selfe for his beloued Church that he might sanctifie it and clense it by the washing of water through the word that he might make it vnto him self a glorious church not hauing spot or wrinkle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blame What similitude hath this with Allens pratling of purenesse and patching in of purgatory As for the place alleged out of Esay the 4. Because he dare not abide by it him selfe but confesse that it is but a coniecture of his own to draw it to purgatory which in deede is playnly spoken of the reformation of the Church in this life I neede spend no more tyme in aunswering it 3 There be two textes of Scriptures to this purpose so like that many of the doctors for better conference in so weighty a case haue ioyned them together to make their proofe full and so will I do by their example The first is in the thirde chapter of the prophet Malachie in these wordes Ecce venit dicit Dominus exercituum quis poterit cogitare diem aduentus eius Et quis stabit ad videnduÌ„ eum Ipse enim quasi ignis conâ—â—ans quasi herba fullonum sedebit conâ—tans emuÌ„dans argeÌ„tum purgabit filios Leui colabit eos quasi aurum argentum erunt Domino offerentes sacrificia in iustitia Et placebit Domino sacrificium Iuda Hierusalem c. Beholde he commeth sayth the Lorde of Hostes. And who may abide the day of his coÌ„ming VVho can stand endure his sight â–ª For he is like melting and casting fier and as the washers herbe And he shall sit casting and trying out siluer and shall purge the children of Leui clense them as golde or siluer And theÌ„ shal they offer sacrifice in righteousnesse the offerings of Iuda Hierusalem shall be acceptable vnto our Lorde And thus farre spake the prophet The second is this taken out of the first Epistle to the Corinthians Secundum gratiam Dei quae data est mihi vt sapiens architectus fundameÌ„tum posui alius auteÌ„ superaedificat Vnusquisque auteÌ„ videat quomodo superaedificet FundameÌ„tuÌ„ enim aliud nemo potest ponere praeter id quod est posituÌ„ quod est Christus Iesus Si quis auteÌ„ superaedificat super fundameÌ„tum hoc aurum argeÌ„tum lapides preciosos ligna foenuÌ„ stipulam vniuscuiusque opus manifestuÌ„ erit dies enim Domini declarabit quia in igne reuelabitur vniuscuiusque opus quale sit ignis probabit Si cuius opus maÌ„serit quod superaedificauit mercedeÌ„ accipiet si cuius opus arserit detrimentuÌ„ patietur ipse auteÌ„ saluus erit sic tameÌ„ quasi per igneÌ„ Thus in English According to the grace of God geuen vnto me as a discriete builder I haue laid the groundewarke but an other buildeth theron Let euery man be circumspect how he buildeth on it For no fundatión can be laide but Christ Iesus which is already laide If any man builde vpon this groundewarke golde siluer preciouse stones wodde hay or stooble euery mans worke shall be laide open For the day of our Lorde will declare it because it shall appeare in fire And that fire shall trie euery mans worke what it is if any mans worke erected vpon that foundation do abide he shall receiue rewarde but if his worke burne he shall susteine losse or it shall susteine â—osse meaning by the worke it selfe as the texte well serueth also but him selfe shall be saued notwithstanding and that yet as through fire These be S. Pauls wordes Now as men studious of the trueth carefull of our faith and saluation and fully free from contention and partaking let
and them selues nurtered to holde vp their handes and knocke their breastes must yet needes meruail how these outward formes came to so holy an vse further whether the Christian people were not sclaundered for worshipping and doing sacrifice to Ceres and Bacchus when the wicked infidells sawe their behauiour towardes the holy Hoste whether it was not vsed in working of miracles in driuing away deuills in daungerous times of tempests of trauelling of sickenesse and in other necessities VVell these be plaine practises no heretike can denie but they haue bene so vsed of the whole Church of God with many such other like in that holy action which can not in any case stande with bare breade or any other way of presence but onely the proper true and bodily presence of Christes owne person A doctors wordes may be misconstrued may be picked out of place may be writhen and wastred by false teachers but a mans example can not lightly be misconstrued And therefore heretikes whose purpose is alwayes by sutteltie to deceiue the simple will neuer make discours by the practise of the Church or exercise and example of the auncient learned men through out the Church of Christ hauing enough for their meaning to racke a place or two out of the fathers whole workes that may seeme to the ignoraunt to set forth their errour So if thou woulde knowe whether that place that our aduersaries impudently doe alleage out of Gregory the great against the soueraignty of the see of Rome was in deede written for their seditious purpose beholde the practise of the same father and thou shal s finde him selfe exercise iurisdiction at the very same time when he wrote it in all prouincies Christianed through out the worlde both by excommunication of byshoppes that gouerned not well by often citation of persons in extreme prouincies by many appeales made vnto him by continuall legacies to other nations sent either to conuert them to the faith or to gouerne in their doubtfull affaires and by all other exercise of spirituall iurisdiction Is it not now a very false suggestion to the poore people that this blessed man in so plaine vtteraunce of his meaning by workes and not by wordes shoulde yet be brought as a witnesse to condemne him selfe though the wordes being well vnderstande make for no suche meaning in deede as by others it hath bene sufficiently declared The like impudencie it is to alleage S. Bernarde against the Masse or the presence of Christ in the blessed Sacrament Good man I dare say for him he sayde Masse euery daye if he were well at ease For other busines did not commonly let them in those dayes from that worke of all other most necessarie So the reciting out of S. Ambrose for the improuing of inuocation of holy Sainctes is no more but an abuse of the simples ignorance knowing well that he and all other of that time did practise prayers both often to all holy martyrs and sometimes peculiarly to such whome for patronage they did especially chuese of deuotion amongest the rest I speake not this that any might hereby iudge the doctors wordes to stande against their owne deedes but that euery man maye perceiue that where the workes and practise of all men be so plaine their words in some one place founde darke can not by any meanes be preiudiciall to that trueth which in all other placies they plainely set forth by wordes and by the euident testimonie of their owne practise to the worlde proteste the same Therefore I woulde exhorte all men in Christes name for their owne saluations sake to take heede how they giue credit to these libelles conteining certaine wrasted places out of the doctours workes against any trueth which by the further discourse of vsage and practise they are not hable before the learned to iustifie And therefore that all mistrust of vntrue dealing maye be farre from vs I will as I saide let them haue the feeling and handling of our cause throughly They shall behold in examples of most noble personagies both for their name vertu and learning the peculiar practises in praying and Masse saying for the deade both in the auncient Greeke and Latine Churchies CAP. IX 1 NOwe shall we haue the practise and examples of the olde fathers concerning sacrifice and prayer for the dead And here M. Allen before he commeth to the matter maketh much a do to shew how much more certayne the practise is then the wordes of any doctor because the wordes may be mistrusted or wrested the practise can not be altered As though he could shew vs any practise but that which is vttered in their wordes in which if there be any obscuritie or improprietie there shall be as great cōtrouersie of their workes as of their doctrine as they vsed the name of sacrifice in their teaching so they vse it in declaring what they did practise according to their teaching And therefore it is not worth a straw that M. Allen thinketh we may knowe their meaning rather by their practise then by their wordes except he could either in picture or in vision describe vnto vs euery thing that they did But let vs consider the examples of those thinges which he bringeth in to proue that practise is more certeyne then wordes First he can not deny but the wordes of Augustine and Theodoretus stand with vs that the sacramēt of Christes supper is a figure of his body and bloode and not the same naturally But the practise must expound the words not to stand with vs For they did so carefully keepe it adore it shew it to be worshipped prayed to it yea they taught children to call it God and Lorde which they would not haue done if they had not beleued it to be the very body of christ For this is cited 1. Theodoret. Dial. 2. in the margent His wordes be not set downe because they be directly against transubstantiation and nothing fauouring the grosse imagined presence of Christes body in the sacrament for he calleth the sacrament signa mystica the mysticall signes and the diuine mysteries which represent the body of Christ that is a true body and not fantasticall or absorpt of the diuinitie as the Eutichians dreamed wherefore it is playne that the adoration he speaketh of is nothing else but the reuerent estimation of the sacrament to be that which by Christ it is ordeyned to be and not any knocking or kneeling as M. Allen would haue vs beleue Augustine also vppon the 98. Psalme is cited belike to proue the adoration who in deede alloweth the adoration of the body of Christ whereof that is a sacrament but neither can you proue out of that place that he would haue the sacrament honored nor that the sacrament is the very body of Christ but euen in the same place speaking of the sacrament he sayth in the person of Christ non hoc corpus quod videtis manducaturi estis bibituri illum sanguinem quem fusuri sunt
r. praeponeÌ„da 22. in a. r. in the. 24. vvhen r. vvheÌ„ the. 71.20 vvhere rea vvere and the 22. to reade in 78.26 that you â—avv a bastard church r. that you being a bastard church haue 87.34 Commentualls rea Conuentualles 91.32 that he rea then he 92.30 cultiued r. coÌ„tinued 97.1 your reade youres 99.13 there rea therefore 14. vinci reade vincè In the aunswere of a true Christian c. pag. 14. li. 6 for that r. theÌ„ 22.21 conseites r. conserues 23.19 they made a cushioÌ„ reade they made mariage a chushion 25.37 fast reade facte 26.37 canche rea couche 30.35 greatest rea great 31.1 reade instrumentes for the defence 46.33 for reade farre 47.30 sinnes reade sinner â—9 19 praedicate rea praeiudicate 64.37 fauteles r. fruictles 87.6 heauie reade hearie 89.2 as reade or 92.6 bitter reade better 95.31 paltinge r. peltinge 102.15 r. liklihodes nuÌ„bred 121.29 conuenientes reade conuenienter 127.13 r. to death a sinne not c. li. 28.10 rea to 139.34 vnrecoÌ„cyled reade that are reconciled 143.2 you reade her 151.27 hath rea hauing 156.5 can not reade can stande c. 205.29 to his brother rea to his brethren 210.14 faste reade facte â—24 31 reade forsakers 232.38 sorovving r. saying 238.10 clame r. exclame 248.1 an reade any 249.23 praie reade praied 255.19 Tecta reade Tecla 259.37 toti reade hi. 262.7 after vvritinges make a ful poinct l. 10. Troianus reade Traianus 14. BarlauÌ„ r. Barlaam 16. Ephraim r. Ephreem 265.27 and 29. Rhenamus reade Rhenanus 268.36 knavv rea knaue 277.17 shoulde seme reade as it shoulde seme 283.2 Capth r. Chapter 284.30 after decree reade concerning that vvhich vvas not c. 286.31 put out he 299.19 had reade hath 295.11 xemia rea xenia 307.8 mistrusted reade misconstrued 316.2 you vvil r. you vvil not 23. then rea thou 334.19 criall reade triall 335.31 put out in 347.1 same reade sunne right reade light 350.6 r. deceiueth c. 361.16 vnto reade in 361.29 profatam rea profoctam 364.31 vve before reade before vve 378.17 vindicemus reade iudicemus and line 37. either reade other 373.11 stringe r. springe 374.10 Consilio Meleuitano r. CoÌ„cilio Mileuitano 382.19 CommoÌ„ r. Cannon 386.31 degree r. pedigree 391.25 thou reade there 396.1 God reade man. 397.24 hidden r. sudden 399.15 as for vvitnesse reade for vvitnesses 406.6 the matter reade thy matter 409.32 make a full poincte after in deed and line 22. put out the full poincte after describeth 435.16 sparte r. sponte and line 29. superstition reade supposition 441.34 parleis rea paruis 443.2 vvhen rea vvhere 31. li. aliquid r. aliquod 447.2 strife reade stripe 455.33 named r. varied li. 34. shall rea should AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO A COVNTERFAIT CATHOLIKE The proposition of the Aduersarie CHrist did commit at his departure hence the testimony of that truth for which he died and the conuersion of the Nations to the beleefe in him to the true church of God which then stoode principally and almost onely in the persons of the Apostles and a fewe more that by their preachings and those afterward of their calling the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations beginning at Ierusalem and so proceeding to the coastes and corners of the earth AN ANSVVERE TO THE PROPOSITION I Graunt that our Sauiour Christ at his departure hence commaunded his Apostles as principal members of his Church though not the greatest part of it to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death vnto all nations beginning at Ierusalem and so forth according to his saying Goe therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Teaching them to obserue all thinges what so euer I haue commaunded you Matth. 28. Whereuppon I chalenge the Papist that if he be able to proue that the doctrine of poperie is all that trueth and nothing but that trueth for which Christ dyed and which he commaunded the Apostles to teach I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ. The first article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 First I aske of the protestant what Church that was which conuerted all these cuntries that be now Christian to the faith of Christ IF you meane by Christians true Christians and by the faith of Christ the true faith of Christ I answere only the true Church of Christ hath had the worde of God and sacraments as meanes which God vseth to subdue al nations vnto the obedience of the faith as was the primitiue Church of the Apostles which hath continued vnto this daye by succession not of personnes and places but of faith and truth wherefore if the Papist can proue that we holde not the same faith and trueth vnto which the Apostles conuerted the nations we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ. But if by Christians and Christian faith you meane all them that professe the name of Christ in the whole worlde I aunswere that the true Church of Christ did not conuert them all for in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the false apostles which taught circumcision and obseruation of the lawe in which heresie they continue vnto this day and it is manifest by all histories that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians 2 And let him shew vnto me that euer his Church conuerted any people or lande in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentility or Iudaisme to the true Religion of Christ or that this his fayth was taught to any Nation in steede of true Christianity WE are members of that Church which conuerted all landes in the earth that are conuerted from Idolatry Gentility Iudaisme or heresie to the true Religion of Christ and we affirme that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians
doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ. 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue you not saying this is the meaning of it that is because we knowe by the word of God that it is false 5 Last of all Shew me why you beleued the olde known church affirming this to be the word of God and will not beleue her affirming Luther to be an heretike shew me good reason or Scripture for these thinges and I recant IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church whose testimony of the word of God we allow beleue I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike or the doctrine that he taught which we hold to be heresie but I am able to proue that the primitiue Church from which you haue receiued the Scripture affirmeth your doctrine to be heresie your Church the Church of Antichrist But if by the old knowne Church you meane the Church of old knowne to be the Church of Antichrist which is the popish church we beleue the deuill if he speake the trueth and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen if he bring any other Gospel than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians Therefore when your
church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately and malitiously erre in any article of faith concerning the substance of religion we doe not beleue her and specially because she is a partiall witnesse against him whome God vsed to discouer so much of her wickednesse to her great hindrance there is no credit to be geuen vnto her when she goeth about to deface him by sclaunderous names and false accusations Thus I haue shewed these thinges that you require both by good reason and also by scripture Therefore if I may beleue you you recant The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 I demand what Church hath mightely gonne through borne downe and fully vanquished all heresies in times past aswell against the blessed Trinitie as other Articles of our religion I Aunswere the true Catholike Church hath alwayes resisted all false opinions contrary to the worde of God as her duty was and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite which is the worde of God and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie and triumphed ouer them So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church from time to time confute heresies by the scriptures and declare in their writinges that by them they are to be confuted for examples sake of a great number I will alleage a few Hylarius writing of the blessed Trinitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones neque se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem humanae iudicia extendant Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas impias de Deo institutiones ipsas illas diuinoruÌ„m dictorum authoritates vnumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution Therefore against these vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings and handle euery one of them by the aide of him about whome the question is Thus Hylarius woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie to be confuted not by mens iudgement but by God his word Basilius magnus very often testifieth that he woulde haue all good thinges proued by the scripture and all euill thinges confuted by the same In his moralles Dist. 26. Euery worde or deede must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scripture for the perswasion of good men and the confusion of wicked men And in his treatise of Faith we know that we must now and alwayes auoide euery voice or opinion that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde And in his short definitions to the first interrogation whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe to do or say any thinge which he thinketh to be good without the testimonie of the holy Scripture he aunswereth forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe what madnes is it that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing without the authoritie of God his worde By these and many other places it is manifest that Basilius woulde haue heresies and false opinions confuted by the holy Scriptures Chrysostome vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth that the ignorance of the scriptures hath bred heresies and brought in corrupt life yea it hath turned all things vpsidown by which it appeareth by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away namely by knowledge of the scriptures It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine by which his minde appeareth that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures and heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures to whose onely authoritie in many places he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde as Epist. 19. ad Hieronymum Epist. 48. Vincentio Epist. 111. Fortunatiano Epist. 112. to Paulina contra Faustum lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis remissione peccatorum contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scripture before all writinges of Catholike Doctors of Byshops of Councells before all customes and traditions But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures it is manifest by these places first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius Nos autem ideo certi sumus neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse quia non quis quam nostrum in iustitia sua sed in scripturis Diuines quaerit Ecclesiam speaking of the Donatistes he sayeth We are suer that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse but in the holy Scriptures So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2. he hath these wordes Inter nos autem Donatistas quaestio est vbi sit Ecclesa Quid ergo facturi sumus in verbis nostris â—am quaesituri an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christiâ— puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum The question is betwene vs and the Donatistes where the Church shoulde be what shall we doe then shall we seeke her in our owne wordes or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke we ought rather to seeke her in his words which is the Truth and best knoweth his owne body So the question is at this daye betwen the Papistes and vs where the church is let vs seeke in God his worde there we shall easily finde her To the same intent he speaketh in the third fiueth and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise Furthermore that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes for writing against Maximinus the Arian lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited he sayeth but nowe neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice nor then the Councell of Arimine for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one nor you of the other but let matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason contend by authoritie of the scriptures not proper to any but indâ—fferent witnesses to both partes If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell which was the first and the best generall Councell that euer was but only by the scriptures how much lesse woulde he
into two Lutherans and Zuinglians As for Illyrians if you call them of Flaccius Illyricus they be Lutherans in opinion of the Sacrament and differ onely in ceremonies which can not diuide them from the faith Caluine and they that be of his iudgement agree plainly with Zuinglius so that of fiue names there remaine but two sortes differing in opinion whereunto you ioyne the Swenkefeldians and Anabaptistes Now to your question these be not all of one Church for the Swenkefeldians Anabaptists be detestable heretiks but the Lutherans Zuingliās as it pleaseth you to cal thē are of one true church although they differ in one opinion cōcerning the Sacramēt for although the one affirme a real presence the other deny it yet they both cōsent in this that the body of Christ is receiued spiritually not corporally with the hart and not with the mouth Wherfore this dissention is not so great though there be error on the one side but that they may be both of the Church of Christ as well as S. Cyprian the Martyr and all the Bishops of Africa and a great many of Asia differing with Stephanus bishop of Rome and the rest of his opinion in rebaptizing such as were baptized by heretiks 2 And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one Church WE haue alwaies abhorred the heresies of the Anabaptistes Libertines Swenkefeldians Dauidians Seruitians and all such But that Luther Zuinglius may be both of one Church differing onely in one opinion of the Sacrament is declared before 3 Or that each of their sects may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with an other in high points of our Religion SAluation is the gift of God and not in the power of any company or sect of men but this we affirme that out of that Church whereof we count Luther and Zuinglius notwithstanding their diuerse opinions which is but in one matter of the Sacrament to be members there is no saluation 4 Or that I should beleue all these rather then the Catholike Church or one of these more then another all making such a bold chalenge of the truth and Gospell NO man requireth you to beleue all these but the true Catholike Church onely Neither doe we requite you to beleue any one company of men more then an other but to beleue the trueth before falshood Now which of them hath the truth that they all brag of you must search in the word of truth desiring the spirite of truth that you may vnderstand and beleue the truth and so without doubt you shall come to the knowledge of the truth and of the Church of God which is the piller and stay of truth 5 Let the Protestants of all these kindes put their heades together and shew me a reason of these thinges and with all let them among them selues agree to what sorte of these sectes they woulde haue me and I will recant SVch is your impudencie in this matter as in all other that you woulde make men beleue that the Anabaptistes Swenkefeldians Libertins and other abhominable heretikes be Protestantes But it is well that you can make none but fooles thinke so as for the Protestantes they neede take no great deliberation to aunswere your demandes but you had more neede to laye your heades together to reconcile the Thomistes Albertistes Ockamistes Scotistes Reales and Nominalls which be all sectes of Papistes and especially your Canonistes and diuines about the articles of your religion that is whether the Pope be aboue the Councell or the Councel aboue the Pope Whether the Pope may erre and not the Councell or whether the Councell maye erre and not the Pope These two the Popes determination and the Councells determination being the rules of trueth in your religion and not agreed vpon how can any trueth be certeine in your Church As for Luther and Zuinglius they agree vpon one rule of trueth that is the worde of God and differ onely for the applying or laying of this rule yet but in one matter that not the greatest But you Papists some holding of the Pope and some of the Councell as rules of truth can haue no ground nor certainty thereof Therefore if you woulde haue me or any man to be of your belefe First determine how I shal know when I am in a right beleefe one sayeth if the councell alloweth it an other sayeth if the Pope alloweth what shall I doe when one of these is against an other yea when one Pope is against an other and one councell against an other shall I thinke that trueth changeth so often as they change Moreouer when one Pope graunteth that the councell is aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre Likewise one councell graunteth that the Pope is aboue the councell and that the councell may erre as it hath bene within the 200. yeares the councells of Constance and Basill determined that the councell was aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre Contrariwise the councell of Ferraria and Florence determined that the Pope was aboue the councell and that the councell might erre Martinus 5. the Pope chosen by the councell of Constance was of the same iudgement that the councell But Eugenius 4. that gathered the councell of Ferraria and Florence against the councell of Basill was of the contrarie iudgement Nowe I woulde saye he were a wittie fellow that coulde reconcile this geare together For if he be a Canonist that holdeth this opinion that the Pope can not erre whē the Pope him self graunteth that he may erre which waye shall he turne him selfe For if this proposition be true the Pope can not erre then this is true also that the Pope may erre for if he can not erre he can not erre in saying so And if the Pope erred in saying he coulde erre where he can not erre then this proposition is false the Pope can not erre so one proposition shal be both true and false which is impossible Likewise if he holde that hilde that the councell can not erre and the councell it selfe confesseth it that it may erre Gentle maister N. reconcile me these together which concerne a case that hath bene in practise and still is in the Papistrie and maye here trouble a mans conscience that woulde beleue your church and if he haue any wit restraine him for euer comming into your church If you can not vntie this knot nor winde your selfe out of this maze vnlesse you will be still obstinate it were wisedome for you to recant The 18. article hath but one demande I demande whether they were euer of the true Catholike church which either tooke to them selues newe names of religion according to the calling of any secte maister or liked not so well the name of Catholike or Christian as of their seuerall teachers as to be called of Arius Arians or of Caluine Caluinistes or of Luther Lutheranes
of the Arrians and being brought vp by them had learned that article to beleue the Catholike church which the Arrians would expound to be them selues if afterward by God his helpe this man vnderstood that the church of the Arrians was not the catholike church as he was taught it was but that Athanasius and a few other that were banished and persecuted were the true Catholike church he was bounde to leaue the Arrians commonly called the church and to ioyne him selfe with the secret banished hidde and persecuted church of Christ. But as for your Popish church in that time of blindenesse and error taught not the people that article nor any other but kept them backe from the knowledge as well of that article as of all other thinges that were necessary to their saluation for you taught them nothing els but to pronounce and that full il fauoredly like popingeys certeine latine wordes which they vnderstoode no more than stockes or stones So that the people had no instruction of you no not of the name of God in many places but that they receiued by vncertaine talke of their parentes as it were from hande to hande for how many thousand parishes are there in Englande that within these 60. yeares woulde declare that they neuer hearde sermon in their life As for that they hearde of their seruice they learned as much of it as of the ringing of their belles which was a sounde without vnderstanding Therefore you may be ashamed to speake of teaching the people their belefe and all thinges necessary for saluation when you haue counted it heresie to learne their creede in English or to reade the scripture in English in which is conteined all thing necessary to be knowen for euerlasting saluation Finally because you requier me to shew you that the Christian people of those dayes were bounde to beleue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptised them I trow I will so shew it you that for both your eares you dare not deny it how saye you The Christian people of the Greeke church which were taught by the Greeke church that article of the church and by the same Greeke church were baptised whether ought they to beleue any other church but the Greeke church If you say no then you acknowledge the Greeke church to be the true church which denieth the Popes authoritie if you saye yea Then you are welcome home you recant The 22. article although it be very confuse yet it conteyneth in effect 3. demandes 1 I aske also whether any man for the space of that 1000. yeres of blindenes could be saued out of that secrete and small Church which they say was the true Church if they aunswer me there might be some saued with our Sacraments and in the Communion or fellowship of the Papistes out of the Protestants Church then there was a way to heauen out of Gods Church if they say that none could be saued by our Sacraments out of their close Church then all men yong and old perished for those yeares without any hope of mercy because they could not vnite them selues and be incorporate to that company and Congregation whereof they neuer neither hearde nor coulde by any meanes surmise Therefore let any man aliue proue vnto me that either any man could out of the true Church be saued NO man aliue that knoweth what the true Church meaneth will say that any man can be saued out of the true Church for he that is not a member of the body of Christ caÌ„ by no meanes receiue any benefit of Christ to his saluation Therefore how long so euer the true Church were hidden whether it were a thousand yeres as you beare men in hand that we should say or two thousand yeares it is not materiall this is certeyne that out of this Church none could be saued and though you count it smal as in deede in respect of the world it is but a small flocke and fewe are elected and fewe finde the streit gate of life Luke 12. Matth. 7. 20. yet is the number of it greater then mans eye commonly can discerne As when Elias thought that he only had bene left alone of the true Church God answered that he had yet reserued 7000. that neuer bowed their knee to Baal 1. Reg. 19. And as Esay declareth when the people shoulde be almost all destroyed yet a remnant should be saued which though it seemed to be small yet it should ouerflow and fill all the world with righteousnes Esa. 10. and though it shal be like a gathering of grapes when vintage is ended or the shaking of an oliue tree when men thinke they haue left noâ—hing vppon it yet there be two or three in the toppe amonge the boughes foure or fiue vnder the leaues in the highest braÌ„ches Esay 17. 24. 2 Or that any other company could be knowne for the true and onely Church but our common Catholike societie THe true Catholike Church was neuer so secrete or hidden but it might be knowne of all those that had eyes to see it whose hartes were lightened with the spirite of God and were enstructed by the worde of God that they might vnderstande the trueth and knowe the spouse of Christ from the common strompet of Antichrist 3 Or that all men were damned for a thousand yeares togither because they coulde not finde nor surmise of any other Church then that which practiseth all holy functions which Christ left for our saluation in the world and I recant WE take not vpon vs to medle with God his iudgments whom he condemneth for what causes further then the word of God teacheth vs namely that as many as haue not beleued in the onely sonne of God are condemned for their vnbeliefe other secret causes we remit to his secrete counsell and knowledge And wheras you say that the popish church practiseth all holy functions that Christ left for the saluation of his Church it is most false for first you doe not preach remission of sinnes in the bloode of Christ onely for either you preach not all or else you preach remission of sinnes in any thing rather then the onely merites of Christ as in mens owne merites workes of supererogation pardons masses beggarly ceremonies as holy water auriculer confession c. Secondly you minister not the Sacraments purely according to Christ his institution but either corrupt and defile them with mans traditioÌ„s as you do Baptisme or else cleane chauÌ„ge the vse of them as in the Lordes Supper which you make a Sacrifice an idoll a Priestes breakfast and defraude the people of the one halfe of the sacrament as though you were wiser then he that instituted it in both kindes Thirdly discipline you haue conuerted into tyranny and couetousnes reteyning nothing but the name of it alone Wherefore seeing you exercise no holy function after Christ his institution but cleane contrary to the same and doe
obstinately defend the filthy whore of babylon against the cleare light of the Gospell the true spouse of Christ ye shall be damned except you recant The 23. article conteyneth 2. demandes 1 Againe shew me any Church or imagin if you can by good reason a church of Christ in which there is no gathering together for preaching no spirite of prophesying no rodde of correction no order of ministring nor any spirituall functioÌ„ that can be named proue me that there should be a true Church for a thousand yeares together and lacked all these thinges YOu would faine haue a great nombre of Articles and therefore you bring in one matter often times in diuers phrase of words that it might seeme a new matter when it hath bene vttered twise or thrise before as this Article is conteined before in the 5.8 and 9. Articles where you shall finde it more largely aunswered But let vs see what this strange demande requireth we must shew him a church or els imagine by good reason a church of Christ without preaching ministring and discipline for a thousand yeares together Although we will not graunt that it hath so longe continued without these exercises yet because you geue vs leaue to imagine we can imagine that it may as well continue without publike preaching ministring and discipline for a thousand yeares as it did for three hundred yeares before Constantine But you will say there was preaching ministring and correcting though it were not knowen to the tyrantes and persecutors so say I vnto you for that thousand yeres there was gathering together for preaching ministring and correcting though the Pope and his persecuting Prelates coulde not alwayes see it nor come to the knowledge of it for if they had once intelligence of it they smarted for it as is knowen by the stories of the Waldenses Bohemians c. Furthermore continuall exercise of preaching ministring of sacramentes and executing of discipline are notes of a quiet and peaceable Congregation not of a dispersed persecuted and disquieted Church How often doth S. Cyprian coÌ„plaine that the brethren could not be gathered togither for executing of discipline whereby it is certeyne that likewise they coulde not be gathered togither for other exercises Therefore the intermission of these exercises in a persecuted Church doth not proue the same to be no true Church But where so euer there be two or three gathered togither in the name of Christ there is he in the middest of them But whereas you require the spirite of prophesie except you meane the gift of interpreting the Scriptures the Church in the most quiet and flourishing state may want the spirite of shewing things to come as well as the giftes of tongues healing c. 2 And withall that there was an other vntrue Church which for those many dayes onely practised to the saluation of many all these offices and geue me a good reason why this Church that alwayes hath had these thinges should be a false Church and the other that wanted them to be a true Church and I recant WE vtterly denye that beside the true Church there was an vntrue church that practised those offices to the saluation of any man for once againe I tell you you haue neither the preaching of the word nor ministring of Sacraments nor execution of discipline according to the truth of God his institution but either altogither changed or else greatly corrupted And whereas you say that the popish church onely hath practised these offices I aske you againe whether the Greeke Church be a parte of your Church and whether the Papistes in England be a part of your Church The Grecians you will say are not but the English Papistes are Then haue I founde out by your owne iudgement the Church of the Grecians practising these offices being an vntrue church the church of the English Papistes not practising the same yet graunted of you to be a true Church Therfore you are bound to recant The 24. article conteyneth 10. demandes 1 Moreouer let any man shew how that Church can be the piller of truth which durst not for a thousand yeares clayme either preaching of Gods word or ministring of SacrameÌ„ts or shew her selfe against falshood or superstition AS the number of your articles doth draw to an ende so your matter is farre spent and therefore to make vppe your number you must repete one thing twise This demaund is conteined before in the 11. and 12. articles where also it is fully aunswered Notwithstanding seeing it commeth againe it shal be briefly aunswered in this place The Church is not called the piller of truth because it should stand alwayes in the sight of the world for then the defection which S. Paule speaketh of could not haue come neither should the Church flie into the wildernes as was declared to S. Iohn But it is called the piller of truth because that where so euer the Church is either visible or inuisible there is the truth So though the Church were hidde a certeyne time in the wildernes yet there was trueth with the Church You seeme to be a good Arithmetrician for no number soundeth in your mouth but a thousand Neuerthelesse how long so euer it was the piller of truth decayed not And as God gaue his spirite diuers times was bold to chalenge preaching and ministring of the Sacraments yea and so boldly that it cost many of the chalengers their liues As Berengarius Bruno Marsilus de Pandua Ioannes de Gaudano Ioannes VVickleffe VValdo Ioannes Hus Ieronymus de Praga c. Thus it is manifest that the Church hath diuers tymes chalenged her right and withstood falshood 2 Let any man shew that all giftes of the spirite and functions of the holy Ghost haue bene taken from her a thousand yeares togither and onely practised to the peoples vse by an aduouterous Church THere is no man can shew this for it is a false lye that all giftes of the spirite function of the holy Ghost were either taken from the true Church or giuen to the adulterous church And this hath bene shewed more then once or twise before 3 Let it be declared how the gates of hell haue not preuailed or Christes promise and warrant for her not bene voyd frustrate if a bastard Church exercising idolatry as they say hath spoyled the true Church of all holy actions and the whole gouernment and the whole name of Christianitie almost euer since Christes tyme. THe Deuill hath bent all his force and ordinance he hath armed all the power of darkenesse he stirred vp â—yrantes heretikes Popes Saracenes and Turkes to destroye the Church the dragon that olde serpent Satanas the Deuill stoode before the woman to deuoure her childe he persecuted her into the wildernesse he cast out of his mouthe a great riuer to cary her awaie he made warre with the rest of her seede that keepe the commaundementes of god Apoc. 12. but yet in despight of the deuill the
for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande fower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was bidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching â—xhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. Thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commoÌ„ consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preachâ—ng the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall dishes but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutioÌ„ she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers
like a foxe than a doue 5 Domus Dei. THe true Church in which we are is the house or familie of God which he gouerneth by his stewardes the sincere preachers of his word The popish church is the Synagoge of Satan where the preaching of God his word is despised and the word it selfe made subiect to mens determinations and authorities 6 Columna veritatis SAinct Paule by this title doth admonish Pastors and Preachers how great a burthen and charge they susteyne that the truth of the Gospell can not be continued in the world but by their ministerie in the church of God which is the piller and stay of truth this their duety true preachers considering are diligent in their calling to set forth the Gospell and to preach the truth But the popish church which is not the vpholder and mainteyner but the ouerthrower oppressor of the truth compelling it to giue place to falshood and error can by no equitie chalenge this name to be called the piller and stay of truth but rather of falshood and lyes 7 Ciuitas Dei. OVr Church is the citie of God builded vpon the foundations of the Patriarkes Prophets and Apostles Iesus Christ being the head corner stone ruled by the lawes of God onely reteyning that forme of regiment and common wealth that Christ him selfe hath prescribed The Church of Antichrist is founded vppon seuen hilles Apoc. 17. vpon the traditions dreames phantasies and deuises of men refuseth to be ruled onely by the lawes of God hath cleane altered and changed the forme of regiment prescribed by God set vp an other full of Antichristian pride crueltie and tyrannie Therefore in no wise may be called the citie of God But Babylon the mother of fornication Sodoma and Egypt where our Lord is daily crucified in his members 8 Ciuitas supra montem posita THis saying of our Sauiour Christ in the 5. of Mathew is not properly meant of the Church but of the Apostles their successors the ministers of the Church euen as these sayinges You are the salte of the earth you are the light of the worlde A citie builded vppon an hill can not be hidden neither is a candle lighted to be set vnder a bushell By which wordes he teacheth them aboue all other men to looke diligently to their life and conuersation for as they excell in place and dignitie so the eyes of all men are set vppon them As a citie builded vppon an hill must needes be seene of all them that come neare it so they being placed in so high an office and dignitie shall be noted and marked aboue all other men As a candle is not lighted but to be set on a candlesticke to giue light vnto all them that come into the house euen so a Minister and Preacher of God his word is not ordeyned for any other ende but that he should shine before men in true doctrine and good maners Hereby it appeareth how fondly some Papists would seeme to proue out of this place that the Church must alwayes be visible when the wordes are not applyed to the Church but to the ministers thereof I know some of the doctors expound this place otherwise but the context of the wordes doth plainely confute their error 9 Hortus conclusus AS a gardē or orchard walled in or inclosed with hedges is more estemed of the owner thē great broad fieldes and the trees and flowers that growe therein are preserued and kept more safely then such as are wilde and grow abroad right so the Church of Christ seuered from the rest of the world though it be small in compasse yet is it more estemed of him then all the world beside But the Church of Rome which will not be enclosed with the walls or hedges of God his word but wandreth at large after her owne inuentions can not be called the inclosed garden of Christ. 10 Fons signatus THe true Church of Christ is also compared to a spring or founteine which is shutte in or sealed vppe from the prophane waters of worldly vanities ministring the water of life to all the children of god But as for the popish church which ishueth out of the bottomles lake is a stincking puddle of all false doctrine and heresie whereof the whore beareth a cupp full Apoc. 17. out of which all nations haue dronk Apoc. 18. So farre is it that she should be a well sealed vp by Christ. 11 Sponsa Agni THe description of the Spouse of the Lambe set forth in S. Iohns Reuelation doth in all pointes most aptly agree vnto our holy Church and congregation But the popish church which is not content to be clothed in that white shining silke which is the Iustificatiō of Saincts made white in the blood of the Lambe but with the filthy ragges of mans righteousnes Esay 64. is no Spouse of Christ but the darling of the deuill 12 Mulier amicta Sole NO place in all the scripture doth more plainely set forth the estate of our Church than this 12. of the Apocalyps She is clothed with the sunne of righteousnesse Iesus Christ which is her bewtie She treadeth vnder her feete the Moone of mutabilitie changeablenesse and inconstancie she is crowned with 12. starres which is the doctrine of the 12. Apostles the worde of god She is alwaies fruitefull and persecuted by the deuill and his members but yet by Christ defended protected and prouided for in all daungers and aduersities But the church of Rome is that whore of Babylon clothed in purple and scarlet golde precious stones and perles described Apoc. 17. sitting vpon the beast with seuen heades which are the seuen hilles and is the great cytie that had dominion ouer the kinges of the earth 13 Habitatio fratrum in vnum ALthough this saying be not proper nor peculiar vnto the Church onely but common to euery societie and fellowship of men that continue in godly vnity yet doth it most aptly agree vnto our Church which holdeth one vnity of doctrine faith and religion of christ But the Popish church how so euer it bragge of vnity because their agreement is not in verity can not be that cohabitation of brethren which the Psalmist doth so highely commende 14 Mons Dei mons pinguis THe hill which Dauid so extolleth Psal. 68. is the mount Zyon which though it be small yet it excelleth the high and frutefull hill of Basan because God had chosen it to place his tabernacle therupon euen so the church of Christ though it surmount not ouer kingdomes in worldly dignities and commodities yet to such as Dauid was the litle hill of Zyon is more worth than all the seuen hilles of Rome 15 Sacra anchora IN all the Scripture the Church is not compared to an holy Anchore but in the sixt to the Hebrues Fayth in God his promises is compared vnto a sure stedfast Anchore of our soules vpon which Faith seeing our Church is builded we may truely say that in our
Church only is this sure anchore which the popish church doth so much despise that she counted it heresie for vs to flie vnto Fayth tanquam ad sacram anchoram that is As to our only sure refuge 16 Vinea Domini THe Vineyard of the Lorde is of his owne plantinge dressed tilled by such husbandmen as he hath placed in it which will yeelde him frute in time conuenient This agreeth aptly vnto our Church which alloweth no plant but such as is planted by our heauenly Father This Vineyarde caÌ„ not the popish church be compted which plucketh vppe the vines planted by God and in the steede of them setteth thornes and thistles after the deuises of men 17 Terra viuentium THe land of the lyuing in scripture signifieth this present life as I trusted to see the goodnesse of the Lorde in the lande of the lyuing that is Although I was neare death yet I beleued that God woulde preserue me in this life Psal. 27. And vnto Doeg he sayeth Psal. 52. God shall destroy thy roote out of the lande of the lyuing that is Out of this life Also Ezechias in his psalme Esay 38. I shall not see the Lorde euen the Lorde in the lande of the lyuing that is I shall no more praise God in his temple here in this life And when you shall bring forth a place of scripture where it is proprely applied vnto the church it shal be an easie matter to proue that we onely are the liuely members of Christ which abide in his body receuing all benefites of life from him which is our heade And easie it wil be to proue that you are the lande of the deade men which are strangers from the life of God Ephes. 4. which are aliue in this worlde and not deade vnto Christ. 18 Regina in vestitu de aurato circundata varietatibus ALthough this saying alleaged out of the 45. Psalme be figuratiuely ment of the church as it is literaly spoken of Pharaos doughter whom Solomon maried yet being alleaged not after the trueth of the Hebrue but after the error of the olde translation I will not interprete it contrarie to my conscience as S. Ieronym â—ayeth according to that corrupt version but according to the trueth of the text which is The Queene in a garment of golde of Ophir As for compassing with varieties it is not in the text By this figure the spirituall magnificence of the church of Christ gathered of the Gentiles is set forth vnto vs and therefore let not the Papistes dreame that material golde is the ornament of Christ his spouse but as it is before sayed of the whore of Babylon 19 Ecclesia magna 20 Populus grauis DAuid in the 35. Psalme promiseth that he will geue thankes vnto God after his deliuerance in a great companie and solemne assemblie of people such as was wont to come together at the holy meetings in the Sanctuarie This is the true and the simple meaning of this text And it were to violent an interpretation to inforce it to be a prophesie of the church of Christ although it be true that the church is a great congregation and a mighty people yet remembring therewith that in comparizon of all the worlde it is as Christ him selfe calleth it A litle Flocke 21 Archa Noe. IN the Arch of Noe as S. Peter testifieth 1. Pet. 3. but a fewe namely 8. soules were saued in the water euen as many as were obedient vnto the voice of God the whole worlde beside were drowned Wherefore how fewe soeuer we be As the Papistes say we are not many so long as we obey the voice of God we doubt not but we shal be saued in the Arch. And the Papistes with all their vniuersality and multitude despising the lawe of God shall perishe with the wicked worlde 22 Tabernaculum altissimi THe old Tabernaecle was a figure of the true Church and we know that none shall dwell therein but such as be described in the Psal. 15. Therefore let the Papistes bragge as long as they list of the Tabernacle of the highest yet shall they not dwell there neither shall they rest in his holy hill because they be not indued with such vertues springing of true and a liuely faith As in that Psalme be set forth 23 Ager area Dei. THe church is the feelde and flower of God in his feelde he soweth none but good seede the chaffe shal be purged from his flower The Papistes are some of these tares whome the enuious man hath sowed while men were a sleepe and the chaffe which after it be purged from the corne together with the tares shal be burned in the vnquencheable fire 24 Mater fidelium IErusalem that is from aboue is free which is the mother of vs all which embrace Iesus Christ as our onely Redemer from the bondage and curse of the lawe As for that steppe mother of Rome which bringeth men into captiuitie through ceremonies and traditions of men Begetteth vnto bondage as Agar did and is become the mother not of the faithfull but of abhominable fornication Apocalip 17. 25 Nutrix Christianorum THe church of Christ is the Nurse of ChristiaÌ„s which bringeth them vp and feedeth them first with milke and afterwarde with stronger meates according as they are able to receue it 1. Cor. 3. Heb. 6. But Rome which feedeth her babes with poyson of mans traditions in steede of the milke of God his word will rather see them famish than they shoulde taste of God his worde maye well be a nurse of Antichristians but neuer did good vnto Christians 26 Ecclesia orthodoxa TRue opinions are confirmed out of the worde of trueth wherefore our church which holdeth no doctrine but such as is tried by the worde of truth most truly may be called the true beleuing church Contrarywise the Popish church which so manifestly dissenteth from the worde of trueth that she dare not be iudged thereby but most blasphemously submitteth the same to her corrupt and false iudgement maye iustly be called a false beleeuing church 27 Vna Sancta Catholica 28 Apostolica THis hath bene often proued before And namely in the first second third and fourth demandes of this last Article 29 Vxor de latere Christi sicut Eua de latere Adam AS S. Augustine sayeth The church of Christ is taken out of his side as Eue was out of Adams side which so long as she obeyeth the voice of her â—usbande is not deceiued by the serpeÌ„t But if she be absent from him that she be not instructed by him she is deceiued by heretikes Augusti De Genes contra Manichaeos libro 2. cap. 24. 26. by which place of Augustine it is proued that the Church may erre if she be not ruled by the worde of God. 30 Domus Pacis THe church may be called the house of Peace because there is in it Peace and agreement in the cheefest Articles of the Faith or because in it is taught vs the
Peace and reconciliation wrought by Christ whereby we knowing that we are iustified by faith haue peace with god Rom. 5. But neither of these Peaces are in the church of Rome for there is dissention in doctrine and their doctrine dissenteth from the truth as for the peace of conscience is altogether vnknowen vnto Papistes euen as the iustification of Faith by which onely it is obteined 31 Domus Refugij THe house of Refuge or defence may also be applied to the Church out of which is no saluation And in whose bosome it becoÌ„meth euery man to rest which shall looke for the refuge and defence of god But God forbidde that any man should seeke for refuge or helpe at your church which must be ouerthrowen with such violence as a great mylstone that is cast into the Sea and shal be founde no more Apoc. 18. 32 Domus Veritatis AS our church is the piller and staie of trueth so is she also the house of Trueth which knoweth nothing but him that is the Trueth it selfe Iesus Christ and his most holy Scripture In which this trueth is signed and testified But your Synagoge is the house of lyes where beside mens doctrines and traditions which are nothing but lyes there be also leaden legendes of lyes Promptuaries of lyes Festiuals of lyes and other infinite bookes of lyes 33 Societas Sanctorum HOw shoulde not our Church be the societie and fellowship of Sainctes which is sanctified and purged by the bloode of Christ which hath receiued the spirite of sanctification by which we crie Abba Father which is guided and gouerned by the most sacred and holy worde of god And how can the Popish church be the fellowship of Sainctes when she refuseth the sanctification of Christ his one oblation and sacrifice as sufficient to make them perfect which scorneth at the spirite of sanctification which can abide any thing rather than to be directed onely by God his holy worde Finally which acknowledgeth no sainctes but such as the most vnholy Pope for money doth canonize and make sainctes Proue vnto me therefore that these excellent and propre callinges can agree to any disordered companie or Congregation or to any vnknowen society of men but onely to the true Church of Christ spred throughout the whole worlde by Christes his promise and by vertue of his spirit continued in truth and grace from falshood sence Christes time and I recant AS many of these excellent names as in the worde of God or the doctors agreeing with the worde of God are propre or perteyning to the true Church of Christ so many haue I proued to be propre and perteyning to our most holy and well ordered CongregatioÌ„ And moreouer that they can in no wise be rightly applied to that most abhominable Idolatrous and disordered Synagoge of Rome which is vtterly departed from the faith geuing heede to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills being so liuely painted forth and euen pointed forth by the scripture to be that Antichristian church whereof the holy Ghost prophesieth that no man except he will wilfully be blinde can be ignorant thereof so that if you be not starke blinde and geuen vp into a reprobate sence when you consider these thinges you will recant Let any man therefore aliue answer directly and plainly without colour or fraude of wordes and vnprofitable digressions to the foresayd or any of the foresayd demandes and I shall willingly leaue the knowne Church playne way of Saluation and wander in the woodes to seeke after them and their congregation IF you had not added this conclusion we might haue conceaued some hope that vpon further instruction in such matters as troubled your conscience you would haue ben contented to be reformed after God his worde and good counsell But now you declare that you are so obstinatly bent that what so euer be proued against you you will not receiue it as truth but yeld vnto it perforce As for me Although I know there are very many which with more learning and eloquence coulde haue aunswered your demandes yet being such as they are I submitte my selfe to the iudgement of all them that be learned and godly minded whether I haue not directly and plainely without colour or fraude of wordes without all digression aunswered the same so that I doubt not but as many as are tractable and stayed vpon these doubtes onely may be fully perswaded by these not very long and yet sufficient Answers THE ENDE 1 A DEFENSE AND DECLARATION OF THE CATHOLIKE Churches doctrine touching Purgatory and prayers for the soules departed By VVILLIAM ALLEN Maister of Arte and student in Diuinitie 1 AN OVERTHROW AND CONFVTATION OF THE POPISH Churches doctrine touching Purgatory and prayers for the deade By W. FVLKE Doctor in Diuinitie 2 Mortuo ne prohibeas gratiam Eccle. 7. Hinder not the departed of grace and fauour 2 Such liberalitie as by any meanes may extende vnto them in burying their bodies honoring there memorie helping there posteritie TO THE READER 3 A Friend of mine very studious of the truth and zelous of Gods house one that learned to beleue first and then sought to vnderstand afterward which I take to be the naturall order of a christian schoole where faith must in most matters direct reason and leade the way to vnderstanding asked of me as of one whome he hartely loued and knew to be studious in such matters by my trade of life vpon what groundes the Churches doctrine and the Christian peoples faith of Purgatory and prayers for the departed stoode I aunswered him then presently as I could and shortly after as his further request was in writing somewhat more at large The which my doing though it was both rude and short yet he so measured it either by loue as it commonly happeth or else by a singular facilitie whereby he misliketh nothing that is meant well that he made it common to many moe then I would my selfe For though I was well contented that the simple people or any other should take profite or pleasure by my paine yet â—onsidering the matter to be full of difficultie and to reaâ—h to Gods iudgements in the world to come I called to my minde the saying of Nebridius who as S. Augustine reporteth of him with whom he was very familiar being much studious and inquisitiue of the secret poâ—ntes of our faith would be excedingly offended to heare a man aske of a matter of importaunce a briefe declaration his saying was that he loued not a short answere to a long question VVhereby I was me thought in a maner admonished that my treatise though it satisfied my friend and displeased not other yet could not written both hastely and briefly serue so long and large a matter I did feare with all to enter in this my lacke of yeares iudgement and knowledge into the search of such secretes as I knâ—w by that light vowe that I made of the matter before the orderly proceeding in
the cause would driue me vnto I did learne of auncient Irenaeus that such doctrine â—nd mysteries may be safely had and without all feare of errour taught by holy Priestes and Bishops Qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum sâ—cundum placitum patâ—is accepeâ—unt VVho haue receaued with thâ—ir ordinary succession in their pastorall seat the gracious gift of vnderstanding the truth And these are they sayth he in the same place which may without all daunger to them selues and their hearers expound vnto vs the holy Scriptures Other men doubtles which this miserable age of ours seeth not that measureth all thinges by a fond flourish of learning whereof â—et there was neuer lesse store can not nor must not be so bold though their giftes were many moe study muâ—h longer then mine And to confesse the truth in deede I was somwhat loth such was my foolish feare then to fall in hand with that matter which being well and to the bottom ripped I perceaued of all other causes in the world most to touch the very sore of heresie and therefore might to me procure the hatred of such whose loue otherwise I could be content either to keepe or winne Besides that I saw the contention of the contrary part seking to make some answere to such thinges as might in this cause most greeue their mindes or marre their matter shoulde driue me from that course of study which otherwise in quietnesse I would most gladly keepe to serue truth and defende my cause which once of freedom and good will taken in hand must afterward of duety and necessitie be vpholden Notwithstanding all these thinges good reader which might most iustly hold me back yet now my friendes request the case and condition of this present time and my duety towards my mother the Church may of good reason and must of necessitie chaunge my former intent remoue my priuate study to the benefite of the common cause Therfore being at length by iust occasion wholy minded to serue as well as I could that way I thought good these late months to make a more full declaration of that thing which at my sayde friendes request I had so briefly touched before That as then when he first had it of me it onely serued him for his owne contentation the pleasuring of his singular and secret friendes and the helpe of some simple whome he knew deceyued by ouer light looking on so graue matters so nowe good Christian reader I trust it may helpe in common not onely such as haue been caried a way by the guile of heresie but other that are much subiect to the daungerous flattery of this present time with whome pleasure euer ioyned to the protestantes doctrine often more preuaileth then the preachers persuasion Be bolde to charge any of our aduersaries make he neuer so great accompt of him selfe with the force of trueth heere expresly proued both by argument and authoritie if it holde him not he shall I am sure brast out with impudencie and not lose him selfe by reason iust dealing or honestie And if it be proued to touch with safetie the poison it selfe let no man doubt to vse it for a preseruatiue in this common infection of our time and countrie For it were no reason any man shoulde practise with the poore people priuyly in such thinges as he were not hable to mainteine before their pilloures and preachers openly And for that hatered which I may procure to my selfe by mine owne trauell it shall not much moue me for I shall either be partaker thereof as a common praise in these euill dayes to most good men or els if I be not worthy so much I will learne to beare it as some parte of punishment satisfaction for my sinnes I may not bye frendship with flatterie nor mannes loue with forsaking Gods trueth Of such thinges then I will not make much reckening but my principall care is that in writing or wading in so deepe matters I keepe the streight line of the Churches truth which in the exceding rashnesse of these darke dayes a man may quickely lose And therefore to make sure I humbly submit my selfe to the iudgement of such our maisters in faith and religion as by Gods calling are made the lawefull Pastors of our soules Of whome I had rather learne my selfe then teach other if either they had occasion and opportunitie to speake or I might of reason and duetie in these miserable times holde my peace Farewell gentle Reader and if I pleasure thee by my paines let me for Christes sake be partaker of thy prayers At Antwerp the Second of May. 1565. 3 WHether this occasion of your writing were true or only pretendid it is all one to our purpose But where you commende your freinde for that he learned to beleeue first and sought to vnderstand afterwarde which you take to be the natural order of a Christian schoole if you had shewed where you learned that methode his coÌ„mendation should haue been the greater and your iudgement the weightier For we learne by Saint Paule a contrary order namely first to heare the worde of God preached and expounded and then to beleeue it Rom. 10. For God by the riches of his grace hath abounded towardes vs in all wisedome and vnderstanding and hath opened vnto vs the mysterie of his will according to his good pleasure so that after we hearde the worde of trueth the Gospell of our saluation we haue thereby beleeued and so are sealed with the holy Spirite of promise laboring and praying that those which haue receaued the first grace of knowledge and vnderstanding may daily more and more increase in the same that they may be full filled with knowledge of Gods will in all wisedom spirituall vnderstanding Col. 1. And as for that blinde faith which must be thrust vppon mens consciences to be accepted before they see what grounde it hath we leaue it as meete for sect masters and heretikes and in no wise to be admitted by the Disciples of Christ who calleth all men to heare him and vnderstand him Matt. 15. Mar. 7. But faith say you in most matters must direct reason But I say reason in all matters must be subiect to faith For the naturall man with all his reason neither doth nor can perceaue the things of the spirite of God for the eye hath not seene nor the eare hath hearde neither haue entred into the heart of man the thinges that God hath prepared for them that loue him but God hath reueiled them to vs by his spirite 1. Corinth 2. And this is the thing that deceiueth you Maister Allen which more like a maister of prophane artes then a good student of holy Diuinitie can put no difference betwene carnall reason and spirituall vnderstanding For that knowledge and vnderstanding of Gods holy mysteries conteined in his word whereuppon our faith is grounded we haue not by light of naturall reason but by reuelation and
opening of Gods spirite But omitting this matter as touched by the way with two other pages following as containing nothing materiall to be aunswered I will come to the third leafe and second face where you promise an orderly proceeding in the matter you take in hand Which order of yours if you had not professed your selfe to obserue men might haue taken your hochpot to be such as your matter would bring forth that the treaty of Purgatory should be like the troublesome state therof but when you are not content to haue your methode counted to be of the nature of your matter but you will needes make boast of an orderly proceeding in so disordered a cause you must not be offended if your confusion in steade of order be sometime discouered Howbeit the want of order were a small fault if the matter were pregnant and certaine But what assurance shall other men haue of your doctrine when you your selfe affirme and haue learned as you say out of Irenaeus that such doctrine and mysteries may not be safely had at such a mans hand as you are but onely of holy Priestes and Byshops which with the succession of their office haue receiued a sure and certaine gift of truth according to the pleasure of their father It is the duety not onely of a good teacher but euen of a good Christian to say with the Psalmist I haue beleued and therefore I haue spoken If you beleue not these matters why haue you vttered them â–ª â—f you beleue them then be bold to shew vs your grounds out of the word of god For other perswasion then â—uch as is grounded vppon the hearing of Gods worde will neuer of Christians be counted for true beliefe so long as the 10. chapter to the Romanes remaineth in the Canon of the Bible But I knowe your meaning you affect the prayse of humilitie and modestie For wauering and vncertaintie in faith among Papistes is counted modâ—stie but this modesty is soone forgotten and this boldnesse nowe vtterly refused in the next leafe â—ollowing is not onely resumed by your selfe but also enioyned to others Be bolde blush not you might say though you should for shame to charge any of our aduersaâ—â—es c. A sodaine chaunge he that euen now neither can nor must be bolde although he hâ—d many more giftes then he hath and studied much longer then he hath done to expounde the holy Scripture without daunger to him selfe and his hearers because he hath not the certaine gifte of truth with ordinary succession by and by is growne to such a full perswasion of truth expressely proued by argument and authoâ—itie that men must be bold vppon his warrant to charge all his aduersaries either to be helde thereby or else with no honesty to escape his handes A man would maruaile to beholde this speedy alteration if he did not vnderstand the true difference betwene the certaine faith of a Christian and the obstinate blindenesse of an hereticke For when he compareth his opinion with the authority of Gods word where vpon true faith is builded he will not he can not he must not be bolde to vnderstand the scriptures he wanteth that certaine gifte of truth but when he remembreth that he can not deceiue others nor retaine the glory of constancy him selfe by doubtfulnesse and vncertainty then he â—aunteth braggeth of the force of his feeble arguments and vnsufficient auâ—horitie But concerning the place of Irenaeus by him alleged I must admonish the reader that his meaning was not that euery one that succedeth in a Byshoppes seate hath as necessarily annexed to his see that certaine gifte of veritie wherby he may expound the Scripture without error as maister Allen perhaps woulde insinuate But that some in the first age of the Church as they succeded the holy Byshoppes and elders that were ordained by the Apostles in place and office so also it pleased God their father that they shoulde succede in the like gifts and namely in that excellent gifte of interpretation of the Scriptures which was but extraordinarie and for a season For if it had been an ordinarie thing that euery Byshop by succession shoulde receiue that gifte there shoulde neuer haue been any heretike Byshops as there haue been many and againe that prerogatiue which Maister Allen him selfe will affirme to be peculiar to the Byshop of Rome shoulde be made common to euery other blinde Byshop where so eâ—er he sat which were a great absurditie in popery it selfe And as for the gift of the interpretation of scriptures God gâ—ueth it still though not in such full measure nor coÌ„monly without ordinary meanes allowed in the Scripture as reading comparing praying neuer the lesse with as full persuasion in matters concerning Gods honour our saluation by his holy Spirite as euer he did bestowe the same in any age And as for the helpes of learning requisite for the same as knowledge of the tongues and rationall sciences there was neuer greater stoâ—e in the church of Christ son Christ his time ye if we shall iudge by the writings and stories of all ages vnlesse we will be as impudent as maister Allen we must say there was neuer so great store of learning in any age as Gods holy name be praised there is now in these our dayes in menne professing Christian religion with what conscience can maister Allen affirme that there was neuer lesse store of learning then in this age when euen in remembraunce of men that are aliue there was a great deale lesse store then is nowe but in their fathers and grandfathers time there was almost nothing but rudenesse and barbarousnesse euen with the same conscience that soone after he affirmeth that pleasure is euer ioyned to the Protestants doctrine which more preuaileth then the preachers perswasion If you had meant Master Allen that peace of God which passeth all vnderstanding which they tast of that by the Protestants doctrine haue learned that they are iustified by faith Phil. 4. Rom. 5. and to that perpetual ioy in the holy Ghost whereunto we are exhorted by the Apostle Phil. 4. wherein the kingdom of God consisteth Rom. 14. we willingly would haue consented that such pleasure is alwayes ioyned to the Protestants doctrine but seeing it is more like you speake of carnall pleasures I must say thus much to confound your blasphemous tongue and to dashe out your slaunderous writing let the worlde witnesse that heareth our doctrine and God iudge that seeth our hearts whether carnall pleasures be ioyned to our teaching which daily preach with all vehemency and earnestnes vnfained repentaunce mortification deniall of our selues bearing of the crosse hatred of this world amendment of life holines and righteousnes and that vnder paine of euerlasting damnation And whether pleasure more then the godly perswasion of the preachers preuaileth to winne professors of our doctrine if it be not so clearly seene in this Church of England by the meanes of the great peace
and tranquilitie we haue through Gods singular goodnes vnder the happy gouernment of our Soueraigne Lady enioyed these many yeares looke to those Churches of God in Fraunce and the lowe countryes of Germany which within these twenty yeares haue bene for the most part planted growne vp flourished altogither vnder the heauy crosse and most sharp persecution what carnall pleasure hath allured them what worldly voluptuousnes hath and doth still intise them in so great multitudes to embrace this doctrine whereof if they tast neuer so smal they see present daunger of death or losse of all their goods with banishment Surely this is the Lords doing and it is marueilous in our eyes But to conclude this man if he can not haue loue and praise for his valiant enterprise yet by patient bearing of hatred and reproch he maketh full account of satisfaction for his sinnes O miserable conscience of the Papistes which haue no peace with god through faith in his infinite mercy but seeke to satisfie the streightnes of his eternall iustice by such beggerly shiftes as these which also he is so vncertaine whether they wil serue his turne that he feareth lest he lose al his labour if he happen to lose the streight line of the Churches truth which in these darke daies a man may quickly lose What say you M. Allen is it so hard a matter to keepe the streight line of the Churches truth in these darke dayes Why Where is the citie builded vpon an hill that can not be hidden Where is that visible and knowne Church which can not erre If that which was wont to be the only rule of truth among Papists faile you try an other rule of the Protestants and as Augustine exhorteth you search the word of God in the holy Scriptures and then vndoubtedly you shall finde the truth and the Church also that is the piller of truth though the dayes be neuer so darke or your eyes neuer so dymme if with like humilitie you would submit your self to the iudgment therof as you pretend to doe to the ministers and pastors of your faith and religion The Lorde if it be his will open your eyes that you may see the truth and geue you grace when you see it that you striue not against it to your owne destruction THE PREFACE VVHEREIN BE NOTED TWO SORTES OF HEretikes th one pretending vertue thother openly professing vice And that our time is more troubled by this second sort With a briefe note of the Authors principall intent in this Treatise 1 ALthough heresie and all willfull blindnesse of mannes minde be vndoubtedly a iust plage of God for sinne and therefore is commonly ioyned with euill life both in the people and preachers thereof as the historie of all ages and sondry examples of the Scriptures may plainely proue yet by the gyle and crafty conueiaunce of our common enimie the deuil falsehod is often so cloked in shadow and shape of trueth and the maisters thereof make such show of vertue and godly life that you would thinke it had no affinitie with vice nor origine of mannes misbehauiour at all So did he couer the wicked heresies of Manicheus Marcion Tatianus and the like with a fained flourish of continency and chastity so did he ouercast thenimie of Gods grace Pelagius with thapparance of all grauity constancy and humility and so hath he alwayes where craft was requisite to his intent made shew of a simple sheepe in the cruell carkase of a wily woulfe This good condition S. Paule noted in him in these wordes Ipse enim Satanas â—ransfigurat se in Angelum lucis For Satanas his owne person shapeth him selfe into an Angell of light And that his scholars play the like part our master Christ of singular loue gaue his flocke this wachword for a speciall prouiso Attendite à falsis prophetis qui veniunt ad vos in vestimentis ouium intrinsecùs autem sunt lupi rapaces Take heede of false prophetes that come in sheepes vesture but within be rauening wolues He sawe that seeth all things that the outward face of fained holinesse might easily cary away the simple he detected the serpentes subteltie that none might iustly pleade ignorance in a case so common and withall for thenstruction of the faithfull he gaue falsehoode and her fortherers this marke for euer that conuey they neuer so cleane or close yet their vnseemely workes should euer detect their fained faith But all this notwithstanding if we deeply weye the whole course of thinges we shal finde that this counterfaiting of vertue and show of pietie is not the perpetuall intent of the deuils deuise but rather a needefull shift in forthering his practise there onely where faith and vertue be not vtterly extinguished then the full ende of any one of all his endeuoures For this may we assuredly finde to be the scope pricke of al his cursed trauel to set sinne and her followers in such freedome that they neade not as often els for their protection the cloke of vertue nor habite of honestie but that they may boldly encounter with the good and godly and in open ostentation of their mischiefe ouer runne all trueth and religion VVherefore as he often cloketh subtell heresies in honest life and vertues weede so when he by likelihoodes conceyueth hope of better successe and forther aduentures he theÌ„ openeth a common schoole of sinne and wickednesse where mischiefe may with out colour or crafte be boldely mainteined This open schoole of iniquity and doctrine of sinne he once busely erected in the gentilitie by the infamous philosopher Epicurus and his adherents teaching to the singular offense of honestie pleasure and voluptuousnesse to be thonely ende of all our life and endeuours The which pleasaunt sect though it euer sence hath had some promotours yet the very shade of fained vertue and worldely wisedome of those dayes with ease bare downe that enterprise This broade practise was yet further attempted euen in Christes church first by Eunomius who doubted not in the face of the world to auouch that none could perish were his workes neuer so wicked that would be of his faith And then by Iouinianus who taught the contempt of Christian fastes matched mariage with holy maidenhood and afterward to the great wonder of all the Church perswaded certaine religious women in Rome to forsake their first faith mary to their damnation For which plaine supporting of vndoubted wickednesse S. Hierome calleth them often Christian Epicures boulsterers of sinne doctors of â—ust and lecherie Neuerthelesse the force of Gods grace which was great in the spring of our religion the sinne of the worlde not yet ripe for such open show of liceÌ„tious life speedely repressed that wicked attempt For as S. Augustine declareth it was so cleare a falshoode that it neuer grew to deceiue any one of all the Cleargy But not long after with much morâ— aduantage
Gods iustice howe can the same suffering be mitigated by masses pardons merites c. or cleane taken away by a pardon of Iubely à poena culpa Againe howe can the merites of an other abate his punishment which must suffer him selfe to aunswere Gods iustice If the iustice of God be not aunswered by the offering of Christ how is it aunswered when any mans suffering is by any of your meanes mollified or taken away But it sufficeth you that your forefathers more then a thousand yeares agoe called that place of sufferance purgatory But I pray you what is it called in the Scripture either of the olde testament or the newe or in the first and second hundreth yeares after Christ Diuerse errours be older then a thousand yeares but age can neuer make falshoode to be truth and therefore I waye not your proude bragges worth a strawe I am one of the least of Gods ministers and not worthy in respect of my greatest infirmities of the lowest place in his Church yet by his grace and the authoritie of his holy word I shall be able to ouerthrowe both this and all other babylonicall bulwarkes that are cast vp by Sathan and all his instruments For the defence of popish heresie against the tâ—uth of god And neither the myst of mens inuentions which you call the light of apostolike tradition shall be able to darken the truth of the Gospell nor the errours of mortall men which you terme the force of Gods trueth shall beare downe thauthoritie of Gods holy spirite And as for the torment of conscience by inward acknowedlging of the truth openly withstanded it is not like you could so liuely describe it if you had not experience of it in your selfe Our consciences most humble and harty thankes we yeald to the infinite mercy of God are washed white and purged from all blacknes by the precious bloud of Christ which is the propitiation for our sinnes that cleaue vnto him by true liuely faith and open iudgement shall one day shew that all obstinate Papistes which seeke to establish their owne iustice shal be voyde of the iustice of God while they wrastle to come out of purgatory they take the high way to fall headlong into hell God lighten the eyes of them that are blinde of simplicitie and confound all such as sinne of malicious wickednes The excuse of your sharpe speach perhaps might seeme probable if you did not vse intollerable sclaundering and rayling which neither by zeale of trueth nor example of godly fathers can well be shadowed much lesse warranted THAT OFTEN AFTER OVR SINNES BEFOR GIVEN BY THE sacrament of penaunce there remaineth some due of temporall punishment for the satisfying of Gods iustice some recompence of the offences past CAP. I. 1 AS it is most true and the very grounde of all Christian comfort that Christes death hath payed duely and sufficiently for the sinnes of all the world by that aboundant price of redemption payed vppon the Crosse So it is of like credit to all faithfull that no man was euer partaker of this singular benefite but in the knotte and vnitie of his body misticall which is the Church To the members whereof the streames of his holy bloud and beames of his grace for the remission of sinne sanctification be orderly through the blessed Sacraments as condethes of Gods mercy conueyde All which Sacraments though they be instituted and vsed as meanes to deriue Christes benefites and bestow his grace of redemption vppon the worthy receiuers yet like effect or force is not by the meaning of their first author and institutor emploied vpon all receiuers nor giuen to all the Sacraments That may well appeare if we marke the exceding aboundant mercy that is powred vpon al men at their first incorporation and entraunce into the houshold of the faithfull by Baptisme In which Sacrament the merites of our masters death be so fully and largely caried downe for the remission of sinne that were the life before neuer so loden with most horrible offences that in this misery man may commit yet the offender is not onely pardoned of the same but also perfectly acquieted for euer of all paine or punishment other then the common miseries of mankind which his proper offences before committed by any meanes might deserue And no lesse free nowe then the childe after baptisme which onely originall sinne brought thither So sayth S. Ambrose by these wordes Gratia Dei in Baptismate non quaerit gemitum aut planctum aut opus aliquod nisi solum ex corde professionem The grace of God in Baptisme requireth neither sorow nor mourning nor any other worke but onely an hearty profession of thy faith VVhereby he meaneth that after our sinnes be once thus freely wiped away in our first regeneration there is no charge of punishment or penaunce for farther reliefe of the same But now a man that is so freely discharged of all euill life and sinne committed before he came into the family if he fall into relapse defile the temple of God then as Gods mercy alwaies passeth manns malice euen in this case also he hath ordayned meanes to repaire mans fall againe That is by the Sacrament of penaunce which therefore S. Hierome termeth the second table or refuge after shipwracke as a meanes that may bring man to the porte of saluation though lightly not without present dammage and daunger In which blessed Sacrament though Gods grace haue mighty force for mans recouery and worketh aboundantly both remission of sinnes and the discharge of eternall punishment due by iust iudgement to the offender yet Christ him selfe the author of this Sacrament as the rest meant not to communicate such efficacie or force to this as to baptisme for the vtter acquieting of all paine by sinnefull life deserued For as in Baptisme where man is perfectly renewed it was semely to set thoffender at his first entraunce on cleare ground and make him free for all thinges done abrode so it excedingly setteth forth Gods iustice and nothing impareth his mercy to vse as in all common welthes by nature and Gods prescription is practised with grace discipline with iustice clemency with fauour correction and with loue due chastisement of such sinnes as haue by the houshold children bene committed Nowe therefore if after thy free admission to this family of Christ thou doe greeuously offend remission may then be had againe but not commonly without sharpe discipline seeing the father of this our holy houshold punisheth where he loueth and chastiseth euery childe whom he receiueth VVhose iustice in punishment of sinne not onely the wicked but also the good must much feare VVhereof S. Augustine warneth vs thus Deus sayth he nec iusto parcit nec iniusto illum flagellando vt filium istum puniendo vt impium God spareth neither the iust nor vniust chastising th one as his childe punishing the other as a wicked
After the sinnes of man be pardoned God oftentimes punisheth the offender the church punisheth him and man punisheth him selfe ergo there is some payne due after sinne be remitted Secondly this payne can not alwayes be discharged in this world eyther for lacke of space after the remission as it happeth in repentaunce at the houre of death or else when the party liueth in perpetuall welth without care or cogitation of any satisfaction therefore it must be aunswered in an other place Thirdly the common infirmities and the dayly trespasses which abase and defile the workes euen of the vertuous of their proper condition doe deserue payne for a tyme as the mortall offence deserueth perpetuall Therefore as the mortall sinne being not here pardoned must of iustice haue the reward of euerlasting punishment so it must needes followe that the veniall fault not here forgeuen should haue the reward which of nature it requireth that is to say temporall payne And therefore not onely the wicked but the very iust also must trauell to haue their daily infirmities and frailty of their corrupt natures forgiuen crying without ceasing forgeue vs our debts Quia non iustificabitur in conspectu tuo omnis viuens For no man aliue shal be able to stand before the face of God in his owne iustice or righteousnes and if these light sinnes should neuer be imputed then it were needelesse to cry for mercy or confesse debt as euery man doth be he neuer so passing holy To be briefe this debt of paine for sinne by any way remayning at the departure hence must of iustice be aunswered VVhich can not be without punishmēt in the next life then there must be a place of iudgement for temporall and transitory paynes in the other world The whole discourse made before hath geuen force enough to euery part of the argument the Scriptures doe proue it the practise of the Church confirmeth it all the doctors by our aduersaries graunt agree vpon it If they haue any thing to say here I make them fayre play the ground is open the reasons laide naked before their face remoue them as they can Lette them deale simply if they meane truely and not flourish as they vse vppon a false ground that in flowe of wordes they may couer errour or in rase of their smoth talke ouerrunne truth And that euery man may perceiue that we haue not raised this doctrine vpon reason only or curiositie although the graue authoritie of Gods Church might here in satisfie sober wittes we will now by Gods helpe go nearer the matter and directly make proofe of Purgatory by holy Scriptures reciting such places of the olde and new Testament as shall proue our cause euen in that sense which the learnedst and godlyest fathers of all ages by conference of places or other likelyhood shall fynde and determine to be most true Alleaging none els but such as they haue in the flour of Christian faith noted and peculiarely construed for that purpose which now is in question That the aduersaries of that doctrine may rather striue with the said saincts and doctours then with me that will as they shall well perceiue do nothing but truely reporte their wordes or meaninge Or rather that such as haue erred in that case by giuing ouer light credit to the troblesome teachers of these vnhappy dayes maye when they shall vnderstand the true meaning of the Scriptures the constant doctrine of the Catholike Church the wordes of all auncient writers the determination of so many holy Councels the olde vsage of all nations by humble prayers obteine of God the light of vnderstanding the trueth and the gifte of obedience to his will and worde Or if there be any so sattled in this vnlickely sect that he purposeth not to beleue the graue writers of olde times nor receiue their expositions vpon such places as we shall recite for that preiudice which he hath of this owne witte and vnderstanding yet let him not maruell at my simplicity that had rather geue credit to others then my selfe Or that in this hote time of contention and partaking in religion I do repose my selfe vnder the shadow of so many worthy writers as anone shall giue euidence in my cause CAP. V. 1 TRiumphing before the victorie and that is more before the encontry of hāde strokes for we come to ioyning but now you will now win your spurs or els it shal be a blacke daye with all Protestantes I will be as shorte in mine aunswere as you are in your arguments And that I may put on an armour of proofe to beare of your terrible haileshot your first argumēt hath neither good forme nor matter no more hath your second no more hath your third If you or any for you will prepare your selfe to geue a bitter charge either I or some other shal be redy to shape you an other aunswere But because here is nothing in this briefe ioyning but which hath bene largly discharged before in aunswere to your longe excursions it were nedelesse to make such vaine repetition as you doe especially in your last shorte argument in which space all the substaunce of your large booke might easily haue bene placed only to fil vp a competent length of the fift chapter and with such a tedious inlarging of a superfluous matter as a yong practiser of Rhetoricke would be ashamed to vse in a fayned declamation much worse becomming an auncient master of arte professing to trusse vp his arguments by Logicke to make a perfect perswasion As for the promisse of further proofe both out of the Scriptures and out of the doctors that followeth after this gallant ioyning and lusty challenge shall haue no preiudice of my disabling of the meane to perform it vntill it appeare by playne conference of his arguments and myne aunswers that his words are but winde and his promisse but pratling That Purgatory paines doth not onely serue Gods iustice for the punishement of sinne but also cleanse and qualifie the soule of man defiled for the more seemely entraunce into the holy places vvith conferēce of certaine places of Scripture for that purpose CAP. VI. 1 IF we well cōsider the wonderfull base condition and state of mans nature corrupted by our first fathers disobedience and more and more abased by continuall misery that sinne hath brought into our mortall life we shall finde the worke of Gods wisedome in the excellent repaire of this his creature to be full of mercy and full of maruell But proceding somewhat further and weying not onely his restoring but also the passing great anauncement to the vnspeakable glory of the elect there shall reason and all our cogitations vtterly faint and faile vs. The kingdome prepared is honored with the maiestie of the glorious Trinitie with the humanitie of Christ our Sauiour with the blessed Mary the vessell of his Incarnation with the bewtifull creatures and wholy vndefiled of all the ordres of Angels There can nothing doubtlesse
which Christ sweareth shall be made vnto the vttermost farthing For he that refuseth reconciliation or repentance in this life must not looke for a pardon after this life Therefore if M. Allen will needes vnderstand this pryson for purgatory I will be so bold vppon Christes oth and earnest asseueration to affirme that he which is so imprisoned shall neither looke for mercy nor satisfaction by other mens payment but by his owne suffering But let vs see how he proueth that this place is to be vnderstood of purgatory First by likelihood that he should not haue sayd he shall not escape vntill he hath payd the vttermost farthing but rather cast him into the darke dungeon of euerlasting damnation M. Allen either can not or will not see that Christ here continueth an allegory of a temporall iudgement as Matt. 18. where he hath the same Donec as the same in like sense is often vsed else where Secondly the name of imprisonment will not well admitt he sayth any other meaning but of a temporall torment as though hell is not called a prison 1. Peter 3. And Apoc. 20. which is a place of euerlasting torments Therefore here is no shew of matter but bigge wordes onely 2 And these notes well and diligently considered may geue greate light to the alleaged wordes otherwise somewhat obscure and therewith proue our matter too They be not of my scanning onely as for some parte thou shalt perceiue by these wordes of Rupert an excellent good author Aduersarius eorum qui erant eiusmodi sermo fuit euangelij omnis praedicator euangelicae veritatis potestatem habens non consentientem sibi tradere iudici non solum iudici verum etiam malo ministro quemadmodum vnus eorum tradidâ—t hominem satanae The aduersary of such men was the worde of the Gospell and ech preacher of the trueth who had poure to deliuer him that would not agree vnto him to the iudge yea further then that he had authority to commit him to an euill minister as one of them gaue vp a man to Satan Here we see what that aduersary is to whome we must consent in this life and withall we haue an example in this iudgement of Gods ministers how man may be committed in the next life to a tormenter that may vexe him then at Gods prescription as he doth now at the charge onely of his minister then in fauour and mercy of the iudge as it is now in loue and charity of the vicegerent then for the atteining of heauens blesse as it is nowe for the saluation of the person punished For the executioÌ„ of Gods sentence may be either by a good spirite or our aduersary Angell or by his will and worde onely to whome all creatures serue and obey In this sense Paulinus who was S. Augustines peare writeth that the holy Ghost and Gods worde be mans aduersaries in earth to whome if we applie our selues obediently in this world our sorowe can not be long in the next life But these be his owne wordes Neque septem dies luctus noster excedat si consentiamus in huius vitae via aduersario nostro id est spiritui ac vei bo dei quod nobis peccaÌ„tibus aduersatur c. Our griefe can not be much longer then seuen dayes he meaneth it shall be a temporall paine and not very long if we consent in the way of this life to our aduersary that is to witte the spirite and worde of god For they be our aduersaries when we sinne because the holy Ghost chargeth the world with sinne and the worde of God if we obey not will be our accuser and promotour vp vnto the Iudge who will haue an accompt of his talent to the vttermost farthinge Thus farre spake this Author and in like sense many moe whome I neede not nowe name Because there is such store of testimonies that not onely in some part make for the opening of this scripture but altogether for Purgatory And one or two of them I will briefly recite because I determined with my selfe and bounde my selfe for my discharge and the readers more safe warraunt to bring no texte of scripture for the proofe of my purpose except I might finde some holy writers of the antiquity that vsed the same directly in that sense that if any maÌ„ would repreheÌ„d my meaning yet he should not be so bold with such as I caÌ„ name proue to be my authors therin 2 In this part are two testimonies alleged one of Rupertus an other of Paulinus of which Rupertus affirmeth his exposition of the aduersary but touching purgatory he sayth nothing Paulinus interpreteth the aduersary somewhat otherwise but he speaketh of them that doe agree with him in the way of this life whose sorrow he sayth shal not exceede seuen dayes but what sorrow they shall abide that contemne this agrement he sayth nothing but generally of the accompt of the vttermost farthing I maruell whether M. Allen was awake when he alleged these two testimonies for purgatory or whether he thought that all men should be asleep that should reade them 3 But whome may I more safely alleage for the contentatioÌ„ of sober wittes and repressing the aduersaries boldenesse then the blessed martyr S. Cyprian VVho in the forth booke of his Epistles for the declaration that euery one which here is pardoned of his sinnes shall not straight be exalted to the glory of sainctes and martyrs after their death vseth very fitly as he doth all other placies of scripture the forsaide text by these wordes Aliud est ad veniam stare aliud ad gloriam peruenire aliud missum in carcerem non exire donec soluat nouissimum quadrantem aliud statim fidei virtutis accipere mercedem aliud pro peccato longo dolore cruciari purgari diu igne aliud peccata omnia passione purgari aliud denique pendere in die iudicij ad sententiam domini aliud statim a domino coronari In English it is an other thing to stande at a pardon then out of hande to atteine to glory it is an other maner of matter to be coÌ„mitted to prison thense not to depart till the last farthing be discharged to receiue out of hand the rewarde of faith and vertue It is one thing by greate sorow to be tormented for our sinnes and by long fire amended purged of the same and an other to haue sufficiently purged them by martyrdom in fine it is not all one to hange on Gods sentence in the day of iudgement and out of hande to be crowned of our Lorde These wordes as you see expressely proue our matter open the meaning of the scripture whereon we nowe stoode and do clearely set forth the ordre of Gods iustice in the next life And they shall content the reader better if he marke vpon what occasion this blessed man spake these wordes There were many in the persecutioÌ„ of that time
out till they haue payed the vttermost farthing Those must passe the fiery floode by horrible fordes of skawlding waues VVhereof the Prophet maketh mention thus And a firy streame ranne before his face The space of passage shall be measured by the matter of sinne according to the encrease of our offensies the discreite discipline of that flame shall reuenge againe and looke how farre in wickednesse our foly did reach so farre this punishment shall wisely waste And like as Gods worde compareth mans soule to a brasen potte saying Set the potte empty ouer the coles till the brasse thereof of waxe hote So there thou shalt see periury angre malice vnfructefull desires sweate out which did infect the purity of mans noble nature there the pewter and leade of diverse passions which did abase the pure golde of Gods image shall be consumed away All which thinges might in our life time haue easely bene wiped away by almes and teares Such a strait accompt loe will he kepe with man that for mans sake gaue him selfe to death and being throust through with nailes hath fastened the dominion of death also So farre hath Emissenus spoken and his wordes be so weighty that they haue bene counted worthy rehersall in solemne Sermâ—ns and Homilies of the Antiquity to stirre vp their hearers to the necessary awe of Gods iudgements with much prouocation of vertuous life S. Augustine hath the selfe same discourse almost no word thereof chaunged VVith this addition Ideo fratres charissimi conuertamus nos ad meliora dum in nostra potestate sunt remedia Therfore deare brethern let vs turne and amende by time whilest the remedies be yet in our owne dealinge And in an other place thus he toucheth the scripture alleaged Apparebit Deus Deorum in Syon sed quando post peregrinationem finita via si tamen post finitam viam non iudici tradamur vt iudex mittat in carcerem The God of Gods in Syon shall appeare but when mary after our pilgramage be past and the iourney ended Excepte it sâ— fall out that after our iourney here we be deliuered vp to the iudge so the iudge send vs to prison To this place also S. Bernarde doth sâ—eetely but yet fearefully allude in this exhortation Volat sayth he irreuocabile verbum dum creditis vos cauere poenam istam minimam incurritis multo ampliorem Illud enim scitote quia post hanc vitam in locis purgabilibus centupliciter quae fuerunt hic neglecta reddentur vsque ad nouissimum quadrantem Our worde not possible to be called backe flyeth farre and whilest you seeke to auoyde a litle griefe here you incurre much greater For assure your selfe of this that after this life in places of purgation all negligencies past must be repaide a hundreth foulde home againe till the discharge of the last farthinge 4 As for this authority of Eusebius which hath serued for a patch to peece vp so many homilies of so many diuerse men as a Cuckowes song vttered in diuerse places semeth neither to haue Eusebius nor Augustine nor any other good author to be the father of it but euen some cowled cuckowe that hath left this egge in so many birdes nestes to be hatched vnder their winges and to be counted for one of their chickens but that your voyce doth soone bewray it And here a man may note a great peece of cunning in them that had the writing out of bookes about those times when errours began to take strength that not onely whole workes were falsly intitled to diuers good authours but also patches inserted to their owne workes And if any thing by them were once spoken that sounded to the confirmation of those errors that was thrust into diuers places of their writings lest it should scarse be espied in one And hereof it commeth that such sayings in Augustine Chrysostome and other as seeme to allow prayer for the dead be so often repeated in their writings and especially in homilies that were taken of their mouthes by Scribes and Notaries But who so euer was the father of this sentence as he speaketh friendely for the paynes of purgatory so he sheweth him self an vtter enemy to the release of the same So doth that Augustine which addeth his exhortation to these wordes by him repeated But the other Augustine which writeth vpon the 103. Psalme sayth that God shall appeare to them onely which are not cast into prison when they be departed out of this life therfore I muse wherefore those wordes are here brought in For Augustine as I will shew afterward vnderstandeth that prison for hell and eternal tormeÌ„ts Bernard although he be too yong to depose in this cause yet he speaketh not so much to auouch the paynes of purgatory as to deny the remedy or remission of them wherefore his testimony helpeth not purgatory so much one way as it hindreth the Papistes gayne an other way 5 Here now let our aduersaries in this bright shining trueth blinde them selues let them boldely bost of their accustomed impudency that the Catholickes haue no scriptures nor apparence of scriptures or if they stande with vs for the meaning let them shape with all their conueyaunce any one shifte to aunswere these doctors words Or if the vniforme consent of so many of the best learning and greatest wisedom in the whole Church may haue no roome with them let them shew whereupon their owne credits be growne so great that without reason likelihood or authority men must needes beleue them It is a straunge case that what soeuer they auouch it must be Gods word what meaning so euer they make for maintenance of their wicked foly it must be termed the true sense of Scripture And the truth it selfe shewing all force in the conference of diuers places of holy writte in weight of reason in the workes and writings of all antiquitie shall be so lightly regarded I would to God the people pitifully deceiued by such vayne flying talke could beholde the vpright wayes of truth or could learne by the playne dealing of our side to require some grounded proofe of these newe doctors deuises They may well perceiue if they haue any necessary care of those weighty matters touching our saluation so neare that the Catholike neuer aduentureth to bring any Scripture for his purpose but he will be sure for his warrant to haue the same so expounded by the auncient fathers of our faith lest by his rashnesse he deceiue other and father some falshood vpon the holy writers of Gods will which were horrible sacrilege But on the other side if a man might pose M. Caluin or Flaccius or such other of that light family what doctor or Scripture they followed in the exposition of S. Iames his place for the anoynting with holy oyle when they were not ashamed to giue this sense of that Scripture that it were good to call the elders of the people that had
breaketh her faith of Baptisme shal be damned for mariage is not worth a rush For S. Paule sayth not she shal be damned for mariage but because she hath reiected the first faith that is such wanton young houswifes procede so farre that at length they forsake widowhood christianity and all But if M. Allen were posed where he findeth this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Scripture vsed for a vowe or promise made to God perhaps he would aunswere he is no Graecian then let him pose D. Hardinge or some other with the same question and with all let them shew how the first faith can be expounded for the last vowe that a body hath made if he haue made more then one For the Papists holde that these women made one vowe in baptisme an other of there widowhood What so euer M. Iewell hath affirmed against the Papistes he hath so substantially and learnedly defended that he neede not to haue any other man to aunswere for him Therefore if it were not to choke M. Allen in his owne coller I woulde trauaile no farther in this question The Church you say can not erre and that company is the Church which hath the Pope for their head if therefore it can be proued that the Pope and all they that take his part haue erred it is sufficiently shewed that the Church may erre S. Augustine was in this error as you will not deny that the Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ was to be ministred vnto infants but of the same opinion he affirmeth that Innocentius Bishop of Rome and all the Church in his tyme was therefore the Pope and all the Church did erre reade Augustine contra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. where he sayth of Innocentius Qui denique paruulos definiuit nisi manducauerint carnem filij hominis vitam prorsus habere non posse which hath defined that infantes except they eate the flesh of the sonne of man can haue no life at all in them And by eating the flesh of the sonne of mā he meaneth eating the Sacramēt of his flesh and bloud as it is euident to them that wil bestow the reading of Augustines discourse in that place An aunsvvere to certayne obiections of the aduersaries moued vpon the diuersitie of meanings vvhich they see geuen in the fathers vvritings of the Scriptures before alleaged for purgatory and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiencie of Christes passion CAP. XI 1 BVt nowe the other side seeketh for some shiftes and draweth backe in this extremity thus That the places of the olde and new Testament now rather alleaged for my purpose and the proofe of purgatory though they be thus expounded of the doctours yet they may haue some other meaninge and sometimes be construed otherwise by the fathers them selues To which I aunswere and freely confesse that they so may haue in deede but the aduersary must take this with all that the pillars of Christes Church woulde neuer haue geuen this sense amongest other or rather before all other meaninges that probability or conferēce of scriptures did driue them vnto had it conteined a plaine faulsehood as the heretike supposeth it doth Yea had not the doctrine of Purgatory bene a knowne trueth in all ages it should neuer by the graue iudgemēt of so many wise men haue atteyned any colour of scripture For though many meaninges be founde of most harde places in all the Bible yet there is no sense geuen by any approued doctour that in it selfe is false And thinke you diuerse textes of the holy Scripture coulde haue caryed a false perswasion of Purgatory downe from the Apostles dayes to our time for true doctrine Marke well and you shall perceiue that the Church of Christ hath euer geuen roome to the diuersitie of mens wittes the diuision of graces and sondry giftes in exposition of most places of the whole testament with this prouiso alwayes that no man of singularity should father any falsehood or vntrueth vpon any texte but otherwise that euery man might abounde in his meaning Mary falsehood she neuer suffered one moment to take holde or bearing of any scripture vnreprehended Ecclesia multa tolerat sayth S. Augustine tamen quae sunt contra fidem vel bonam vitam non probat nectacet nec facit the Church beareth many thinges yet such thinges as be hourtfull to faith or good life she neuer approueth nor doth them her selfe nor holdeth her peace when she seeth them done by others Thereof we haue a goodly example in our owne matter So long as any conuenient meaning might be found out by the holy writers of that place alleaged out of S. Paule for such as shoulde be saued through fire she liked and allowed the same Some proued that the elect must be saued by long sufferance some said the tribulation of this life and world must trie mens faith workes some saide the greefe of minde in loosing that which they ouer much loued was the burning fire of mans affections some woulde haue the greuous vexation of departure out of this life to be a purgatory paines some construed the texte of the fire of conflagration that shall purge the workes of many in the latter day finally they all agreed that the temporall torment of the worlde to come is litterally noted and especially meant by the fire which the Apostle speaketh of All these so litle do disagree amongest them selues that not onely by diuerse men but of one man they might well all be geuen And being all in them selfe very true the holy Church so liketh and alloweth them eche one that yet by the common iudgement of all learned men that meaning for Purgatory paines she approueth as the most agreeable sense to the texte and whole circumstance of the letter But as soone as Origen went about to proue by the same scripture that all wicked men shoulde at length be saued after due purgation by fire then this pillar of trueth seeing an open falsehood gathered by the scripture of Gods worde coulde susteine no longer She set vp against this errour her pastors the graue fathers of our faith who ceased not as occasion serued to geue men warning of the deceite intended not onely still mainteining the doctrine of Purgatory but also expressely condemning all the reprehenders thereof as hereafter it shall be better declared and so misliking no sense that in it selfe was true the meaning of Purgatory yet hath bene of all the learned counted so certaine that in geuing any other likely exposition that was euer added with all as most consonant to the will and wordes of the writers So doth Theodoretus so doth S. Augustine and so in a maner did they all And as the saide holy doctour saith with whose wordes I am much delited by cause he of all other maketh trueth stand most plainely vpon it selfe One texte of scripture may well haue so many vnderstandings as may
stand with trueth and be not repugnaunt to good life and maners And he hedgeth the diuersity of mens wittes in the exposition of scripture with in the double knot of loue which is towards God and our brother Who so euer sayth he taketh him selfe to vnderstand scripture or any parte thereof and in that meaning edifieth nothing at all the double loue of God and our neighbour he misseth the true meaning thereof But who so euer can finde out such a sense that may be commodious to the increase of charitie although it were not directly intended by the writer yet he is not harmefully deceiued nor founde a lyar therein so sayth he Now as for our matter I am well assured there dare no man though he were destitute of Gods grace yet not for shame of him selfe affirme that the doctrine of purgatory is hourtfull to vertuous life the only miscredit whereof hath vtterly banished all good Christian condicions or iniurious to the faith of Gods Church which is not only agreable but principally intended by the plaine letter of Gods worde and consonant to all other meanings that may be gathered by any such scripture as we haue alleaged there for and to be short receiued of so many fathers so wise and so well learned as we haue named for that purpose as a trueth most reasonable most naturall and most agreable to Gods iustice VVell then the misbeleuers can haue no shifte nor escape by the chalenge of Gods word or doctures or diuersity of sensies here is no holde for errour all I trust be safe and sure on euery side CAP. XI 1 YOu shoulde breake your olde wonte if you did not in this chapter ouerthrow something that you haue builded in that which went next going before He hath labored all this while to proue that purgatory hath grounde in the Scriptures now he cōfesseth franckely that there hath bene no text of scripture by him alleaged to proue it but it may haue an other meaninge and is sometime other wise construed of the fathers them selues I will aske no more to proue that purgatory hath no grounde in the worde of God which is not an ambiguous oracle that may be drawen euery way like a leaden rule hath but one true sence or meaning which is the right meaning of the holy Ghost For although diuerse men may geue diuerse interpretations of some obscure and harde place which all conteine no impiety or falshode yet the spirite of God meaneth but one thing and not what euery mans wit and iudgement will take it to be True it is that so longe as the proportion of faith is kept the Church beareth with them that geue wronge interpretations but the spirite of God which is in his Church alloweth not wronge interpretations for right And where as M. Allen alloweth all the interpretatiōs that the fathers haue made of the text by him alleaged as true so long as they affirmed no error he may by the same reason affirme that contradictories are true as in that saying of him that shall not come out vntill he haue payed the vttermost farthing some haue expounded that he shal be alwayes punished some that he shall not be alwayes punished One sayth he shal neuer be released an other saith he shall be released at length how is it possible that both these interpretations can be true and yet both these interpretations are founde in some writers But his suerest shifte is that the doctrine of purgatory was a knowen trueth in all ages But this is the whole matter in controuersie For how can it be taken for a knowen trueth in all ages which hath none so suer grounde in any text of scripture that cā be wrested for it but the same text may haue an other and that a true interpretation But of the antiquity of that error we shall haue better occasion hereafter to discusse in the second booke where this matter is of purpose intreated of In the meane time we wil take that which is here graunted so liberaly that there is no text of scripture alleaged for purgatory but it may be otherwise truely interpreted and not of purgatory and that the fathers haue so done by M. Allens owne confession 2 Their extreme and onely refuge is that the paine of Christes passion and his sufficient payment for our sinnes standeth not with our satisfaction or penaunce in this life nor with paine or purgatory in the next O Lorde how farre may mans malice reach that not contented to abuse their reason and the word of God in persuasion of errour but are bolde to referre Christes blessed death also to cloke together with falsehood wanton and licentious liuing Many vertuous persons haue bene prouoked by the meditation of our Sauiours sorowes to leaue the stattering welth of this worlde and to charge them selues with perpetuall vexation of body but that any did euer so rest vpon Christes passion that in respect thereof they might passe their dayes in idle welth of lust and liberty that was I trow vnhearde of before this sinnefull sect These fellowes argue thus Christ hath paide the full price of our sinnes ergo we must do no penaunce nor suffer any paine for them But S. Paule thus Christ by paine and passiō is entred into the glory of his kingdome ergo if we looke to be his fellow heires or partakers of his glory we must suffer affliction with him and ioyne with him in paines and passion S. Peter also thus Christ hath suffered leauing you an example that ye should follow his steppes therefore all his blessed life passed in paine must be a perpetuall sturring vp of toleration gladde suffering for his name againe Iohn our maisters messenger prepared the way of Christes death and doctrine by worthy fructes of penaunce and that was the beginning of Christes owne preaching therfore I dare be bolde to say these thinges are not abrogated by the teaching of the Gospel nor voide by Christs passion which onely maketh our workes and merites to be of that value and acceptation that all Catholike men counte them of which els to the satisfying for sinne shoulde be nothing auaileable nor to the atteining of heauen any thing profitable But it is foly to make ouer many wordes in a case so plaine seeing the example of both God and good mens dealing abundantly proueth mans punishment either temporall or eternall to stande well with the excellent value of our Sauiours death For if paine for sinne were iniurious to Christes death then the holy prophet Dauid that liued long in greuous penaunce were iniurious to his Lordes death then the Church were iniurious to her owne spouse his death that chargeth all offenders with penaunce then God him selfe were iniurious to his owne sonnes death that sharply punisheth sinne forgeuen then Christ him selfe were iniurious to his owne death that both by his example and holy preaching did euer commend sharpe penaunce and paine These
but they had it out of Gods holy worde and tradition of the holy Apostles and by the very suggestion of the spirite of trueth All which if it can not moue the misbeleuer and stay the rashenesse of the simple deceiued sort it shall be but lost labour to bring in any more for the confirmation of that trueth which all the holy doctours haue so fully both proued and declared to my hande 5 The tales that you tell out of Gregory and Bede may be hearde as they are tolde and beleeued as they deserue but that you make the opinion of purgatory such an article of faith that no article with more force of the spirite nor with more graue authority was set forth sence the beginning of Christian religion and yet neuer taught in the scripture that is by no meanes to be borne with all If Sathan hath labored to plante that error which is most blasphemous against Christ and occasion of most licentious wickednesse in all them that professe Christ and beleue it if Sathan I saye hath bent all his force to plante such an error by which his kingdome is so much aduaunsed no wise man can maruell Of like leuen it is that you affirme That neuer nation was conuerted to the fayth but it had purgatory taught by worde and confirmed by miracle O impudent affirmer Of so many nations as S. Luke recordeth in the Actes of the Apostles to haue bene conuerted to the fayth name one vnto which you can proue that purgatory was taught eyther by worde or miracle But to be sure you name all euen of the primitiue Church when that aboundant floude of faith was spred ouer all countries But when the proofe commeth you leape but 600. yeares from Christ to Gregories dialogues from which time I will not deny but you may haue great store of such stuffe as you haue miracles now in Flaunders of the honest woman of the olde Baylye in London and such like 6 But nowe for vs that through Gods greate mercy be Catholikes let vs for Christes sake so vse the benefit of this our approued faith to the amendement of our owne liues that where no argument will serue nor authority of Scripture or doctour can conuerte the deceiued yet the fructe of this doctrine shewed by good life and vertuous conuersatioÌ„ may by Christes mercy moue them Let the priest consider that this heuy iudgement must beginne at the house of God as S. Peter affirmeth and so doth S. Ambrose proue it must do In whome for the dignity of his honorable ministery as much more holynesse is requisite so a more straite reckening must be required Let the Lay man learne for the auoyding of greater daunger in the presence of the highe Iudge willingly to submit him selfe to Gods holy ministers VVho haue in most ample maner a commission of executing Christes office in earth both for pardoning and punishment of sinne that suffering here in his Church sentence and iuste iudgement for his offensies he may the rather escape our fathers greuous chastisement in the life to come Therefore I woulde exhorte earnestly the minister of God that in geuing penaunce he would measure the medecine by the maladie aptly discerning the limitation of the punishment by the quantity of the faulte not vsing like lenity in closing vp of euery wounde For they shall not be blamelesse surely that do the worke of Gods iudgement committed to their discretion negligently nor the simple soule that lookes to be set free from further paine can by the acceptation of such vnâ—quall remedies auoide the scourge of iudgement prepared except he him selfe voluntaryly receiue as I woulde wishe all men shoulde some further satisfaction by the fructes of penaunce that of his owne accorde he may helpe the enioyned penalty and so by Gods grace turne away the great greefe to come Excellently well and to our purpose saide S. Cyprian in the fourth booke of his epistles talking of such offenders as were not charged with penaunce sufficiently or otherwise negligently fulfilled the same by these wordes We shall not herein any thing be preiudiciall to Gods iudgement that is to come that he may not allow and ratifie our sentence if he finde the perfect penaunce of the party so require But if the offender haue deluded vs by fayned accomplishing of his penaunce then God who will not be deluded because he beholdeth the hearte of man shall geue iudgement of such thinges as were hidde from vs And so our Lorde will amende the sentence of his seruauntes VVhere this doctour seemeth to allude to the accustomed name of Purgatory which S. Augustine and other do often call the amending fire Though it may well be that he here calleth the contrary sentence of iudgement to eternall damnation vpon the impenitent sinner whome the priest because he coulde not discerne the fayned hypocrasy of his externall dealing from the inward sorow of hearte pronounced to be absolued of his sinnes it may stande I say that he termeth that contrary sentence of God the correction or the amendement of the priestes iudgement How so euer that be it is a worke of singular grace and discretion so to deale with the spirituall patient that he haue no nede of the amending fire 6 Here is an exhortation vnto Papistes first to the priestes that they will shew the fructe of this doctrine in their conuersation For my parte â— am perswaded if feare of eternall torments in Hell that God threatneth by his scriptures will not terrify them the fayned paines of purgatory which they can by their owne Masses and other like merits auoide will not restraine them The laye men are exhorted to submitte them selues to the priestes who haue such an ample commission that they may both pardon and punish sinne euen as Christ him selfe did vpon earth But what auayleth this submission when the ignorant or negligent priest that weigheth not the penaunce in euen ballance with the offence doth not by his absolution or pardonning take awaye one houres torments of purgatory as both M. Allen him selfe in effect confesseth and the Maister of the sentence also teacheth vnto whome M. Allen hath bene so good a scholler that he hath borowed of him not onely his iudgement but in diuerse places his very wordes also he hath translated Of the nature and condicion of Purgatory fire the difference of their state that be in it from the damned in Hell vvith the conclusion of this booke CAP. XIII 1 IF any curious heade list of me demaunde where or in what parte of the worlde this place of punishment is or what nature that fire is of that worketh by such vehement force vppon a spirituall substance I will not by longe declaration thereof feede his curiosity because he may haue both the example and the like doubt of Hell it selfe and many other workes of God moe The learned may see that question at large debated in the bookes of the City of God and in
children for a moment yet doth he not exact paines according to the measure of his iustice As for that Prosopopaeia of the mother opposing her to the father in worde is more rethoricall then Christian in deede and because it is vnfitte for the matter it is more of garrulity then of eloquence The rest of the exhortations are such as we haue hearde before to accept penaunce humbly to adde to the penaunce zeleously to merite while time serueth diligently c. 4 And for the other sorte which haue bene deceiued by the Maremaides song I shall humbly in our Sauiours blessed bloude beseeke them to consider with zele and indifferency what hath bene saide and whereon it standeth And if God him selfe hath in all ages chastised his best beloued people and dearest children both here and in the next life if the Church hath practised discipline by his authority vpon all obedient persons if all vertuous haue charged them selues with paine if all learned fathers haue both preached and done penaunce for the auoiding of paines hereafter prepared if the worde of God expressely make for this if all learned men with out exception beleued it and feared it if it agree with good reason if it setforth Gods iustice if it duely aunswere to the hatered of sinne if it raise the feare of God in mans hearte if it be the bane of prowde presumption if it be the mother of meekenesse of obedience of deuotion and of all good Christian condicions let it for Gods loue I pray thee once againe take place in thy harte and driue out that rest and quietnesse of sinne which these delicate doctors for thy present pleasure vnder the colour of some honest name haue deceitfully induced thee vnto 4 The conclusion hath an exhortation to those whome he termeth deceiued with the Maremaides songe to consider the weight of his arguments whereof he maketh a short recapitulation First if God haue punished his dearest children not onely in this life but also after this life then let purgatory haue place againe we are content but vntill it may be proued out of the worde of God that he hath punished his children after this life we are not bounde by this argument Secondly if the discipline of the Church the exercise of the godly the doctrine of all learned fathers that haue preached or done penaunce hath bene for the auoiding of purgatory then receiue purgatory againe But if the ende of godly discipline be either to heale the curable by repentaunce in this life or to separat the vncurable from infecting the sounde if the fructes of repentauÌ„ce and good workes of the godly are to be referred to the testifying of their repentaunce and their faith and to the glorifying of God if the doctrine of all the godly that haue preached and done penaunce according to the worde of God haue bene to the same endes we may not yet geue place to admit purgatory Thirdly if the word of God make expressely for purgatory we would not for our liues deny it nor doubt of it but if the word of God doe neither expressely nor by any probable collection allow but manifestly condemne it as blasphemous against the passion of Christ then must we still not onely exclude it from our beliefe but also abhorre it from our heart Forthly if all learned men without exception beleued and feared purgatory we will also beleue it and feare it but vntill that may be proued or that any godly learned euer knew of it for 200. yeares after Christ we must craue pardon of M. Allen at the least wise to suspend our iudgement Fifthly if it agree with good reason which agreeth with the word of God it were reason we should receiue it but we accoÌ„pt no reason good that is not consonant to the truth and therefore if it can not be wonne by Scripture we wil not yeld for any reason Sixâ—ly if it set forth the iustice of God to aunswere the hatred of sinne as God hath appoynted we refuse it not but if it be blasphemous both against the righteousnes of God and satisfaction for our sinnes aunswered in the sufferings of Christ and against his vnspeakeable mercies in prouiding such a wonderful meane of so perfect redemption we defie it and the maintainers of it Seuenthly if it rayse the feare of God in mans heart such as God alloweth we must needes accept it but if it rayse none but a slauish and that a vayne feare of torment and diminisheth the loue of Gods goodnes and mercy excludeth the peace of conscience there is no remedy but we must still reiect it If it be the bane of proud presumption we haue cause to thinke well of it but if it be the prouocation of deuilish presumption to ascribe more to our merits then to the mercy of God we acknowledge that it procedeth from the prince of pride and presumption against god If it were the mother of meekenes obedience deuotion and of all Christian conditions we were to blame if we would not entertaine it But if it be the father of fables and false worship of God the instrument of infidelitie and sleepe of securitie which are sworne enemies of all Christian religion we leaue it to Papistes deluded with the errours of Antichrist and nothing conuenient for the disciples and members of Christ whose payne is their purgatory whose suffering is their satisfaction whose merittes are their rewarde which are vessels of Gods mercy ordeyned to the praise of his glory 5 Aske once of thyne owne maisters if they be able to answere to any parte of this which I haue proued but by vnseemely wrasting of the Scripture shamefull deniall of the doctours or deceitfull colouring of nothing in vayne words without ground matter or meaning thou maist better beleue them and miscredit me But if thou finde they shall neuer be able to satisfie a reasonable man in this case then cast not thy self away willingly with them but betime turne home to vs againe I my selfe seeke no further credit at thy handes but as a reporter of the antiquity But the Scripture requireth thy obedience the Church which can not be deceiued clameth thy consent all the olde fathers would haue thee ioyne with them in their constant beliefe If thou did once feele what grace and giftes were In populo graui Ecclesia magna in the graue people and great Church as the prophet termeth Gods house or could conceiue the comfort that we poore wretchies receiue daily by discipline and perfect remission of our sinnes which can no where but in this house be profitably healed thou wouldest forsake I am sure al worldly welth wantons abrode to ioyne with our Church againe And that the name of the Church deceiue thee not this is the true Church sayth Lactantius In qua est religio confessio poenitentia quae peccata vulncra quibus est subiecta imbecillitas carnis salubriter curat In which deuotion confession and
flambes of purgatory But as I haue noted before that you haue hetherto kept this order for the most parte to plante one thinge in one chapter and then to pull it vp by the rootes in the next so you haue not forgotten your selfe in the diuision of your bookes But that the latter shoulde be a sufficient confutation of the former or else the former a manifest excluding of the latter For if the iustice of God doth so necessarily require a punishment for sinnes remitted that the same coulde not be satisfied no not by that only sacrifice which the sonne of God offered once for all on the aulter of the crosse it is a colde comforte that a carefull conscience can receiue that the same shoulde be done by his merites or your Masses which was not done by the bloude of Christ Yet now you will talke how the fiery sword maye be turned away surely if the fiery and shaking sworde that was set to exclude man from Paradise was not taken away by the death of Christ when he opened Paradise yea the kingdome of heauen whereof Paradise was but a sacrament vnto all beleuers I meruaill how either the penitent these had passage into Paradise or what engins you Papistes haue to turne it awaye which he had not The wordes of Damascene if they were not applied as you saye they are to purgatory paines and remedies of the same were true of Gods iustice and his mercy but as his age is to young so his authoritie is to light to controll the trueth of the worde of God or the practise of the first purest Church which knew no purgatory nor prayers for the deade But if our sinnes forgeuen were neuer so greuous c. what mad man woulde euer write thus Euen such a one as might be allowed to speake thus if blacke were neuer so blacke before it were cleane taken away and perfect white placed in the steede yet when white is white it is white But M. Allen wil not allowe that the coullor of our sinnes is cleane taken away and a contrary coullor of righteousnesse set vppon vs but that sinnes forgeuen be but halfe forgeuen the gilte taken awaye the punishment due for the gilte still remayning And this one halfe of forgeuenesse is but graunted in wordes and denied in deede For if the gilte of our sinnes be cleane taken away from vs and layed vpon the person of Christ and the righteousnesse of Christ is communicated vnto vs what is there lefte in vs that God of his goodnesse can hate or of his iustice can punish So it is but for a fashion that the papistes graunt any parte of our sinnes forgeuen when they will haue vs make satisfaction for them our selues But where as M. Allen is out of measure prodigall in promising releiffe and release of purgatory paines to them whose sinnes were neuer so greuous their vicious life wasted in idle wealth the space of penaunce and opportunity of working neglected in time preuented by sodaine death c rehersing so many meanes of mitigation as sometime the bloude of Christ the residew of his merites the crye of the mother Church the memory of the Masse the merites of all Sainctes the prayers of the faithfull and workes of the charitable All this notwithstanding take heede you poore Papistes that you geue no credit to these flattering wordes For it is the opinion of all the olde writers that doe allowe any of these thinges to profit men after their death and concluded by the Maister of the Sentence and aduouched by Allen him selfe afterwarde chapt 7. that no man can receiue benefit after his departure by any worke or will of the liuing but he that in his life deserued the same neither shal any thing worke vpon him more or lesse but according to his owne deseruing in this life Trust not therefore in these sophisticall vanities which are contrary one to an other but imbrace the vniforme vndoubted doctrine of Gods word which teacheth repentaunce faith iustification and saluation not with curious questions to troble your braynes but with perfect conclusions to quyet your conscience not suffering you to sleepe in securitie vpon hope of helpe after your death but charging you to shew the force of mortification and fruictes of fayth while you are aliue Not puffing vp your phantasie with pride of your owne merites but teaching you to ascribe all prayse to Gods glorious grace and infinite mercy 2 The cruell aduersary of man kinde as before he wrought his worst against Purgatory so here he busely pricketh forwarde the schoole of Protestantes to improue to their owne vtter damnation and the notable hinderaunce of our louing bretherns saluation all such meanes as God by scripture or other testimony of his worde hath reueled to be profitable for the abating of paine or the release of the apointed punishment in that place of temporall torment to come Against which deceiuers I meane by Gods helpe in this ordre to trauell 2 The cruell aduersary of mankinde and enuyor of Gods glory inuented Purgatory to deface the merites of Christes death and to blemish the onely meanes of mans eternall life which when he coulde not with any seemely coullor establish by the authority of the holy Scriptures the onely testimony of his worde and will reueiled and confirmed by his holy Spirite he hath inuented fayned fables and deuilish illusions to deceiue the mindes of them whome he had enclined vnto superstition and not bene ashamed to match them in credit and estimation with the very worde of God it selfe As appereth by this scribe of Sathan which nameth the scriptures for a simple shew but by and by addeth other testimonies of Gods worde beside the scriptures inspired by God whereby he maketh equiualent those false reuelations raised vp from Hell with the inspiratiō of the holy Ghost which hath brought the truth from heauen But now commeth in the order of this deuillyshe horror 3 First I will proue that sinnes may be pardoned or the debt and bonde thereof released in the next worlde 3 You shall neuer proue by authoritie of Gods word that sinnes not repented in this life shal be pardoned after this life where there is no repentaunce profitable nor yet any debt payed but by them that paye it eternally in perpetuall torments 4 Then I shall shewe what meanes the holy Scripture approueth or the example thereof awarraunteth to be proffitable for the soules departed 4 When you can proue either by doctrine or example agreable to doctrine of the canonicall Scriptures that any thing profiteth the soules departed that be not in happy state we will beleue it 5 I will open what the principall pillars and in a maner the flowre of all the faithfull sorte in sundry agies and almost in all Christian contryes haue lefte in writinge for this pointe 5 You are not able to bring one authenticall writer that within one 100 yeares and more after Christ hath allowed prayer for
the dead or any point of purgatory 6 I will declare what they practised for their dearest frends priuately and what the Churches of most notable Nations vsed for all deceased in Christes faith in their publike seruice openly I shall proue vnto you that the practise of suffrages and Sacrifice for the deade isshued downe to vs from the Apostles dayes 6 You shall not proue that either in publicke or priuate prayers the deade were commended otherwise then by waye of thankes geuing for their departure or that any suffrages or sacrifice was offered for them by the Apostles or their lawefull successors or many yeares after the Apostles times 7 I shall pointe you to the first father of the contrary doctrine and his principall abettours in such troublesome times at such marchants were to be founde Ye shall see them knowen amongest all the holy of their time by the name of heretikes 7 You shall shew no heretike that denied your doctrine but I will shew you other heretikes before him that allowed it 8 You shall see their doctrine improued and them selues condemned by the graue iudgement of Councells both Generall prouinciall for heretikes If any of them all can say any thing to the contrary of that which we vpon so good groundes mainteine he shall be aunswered with no worse then the very wordes of the holy auncient writers Finally if any other thinges be necessary beside for the declaration of this matter to the simple or for proofe against our aduersaries they shall not be omitted as occasioÌ„ by course and fall of the matter may be geuen All which pointes being auouched and not proued shall condemne me of arrogancy But both auouched and fully proued they shall deserue any reasonable mans consent and beare testimony of the aduersaries impudency here and witnesse of their contempte of Gods approued trueth in the worlde to come 8 How vayne your bragge is of generall counsels it appeareth by this that with in fouretene hundreth yeares after Christ you can finde none to serue your turne vntill you come to the councells Florens and Trent whereof the one was held in our grandfathers dayes the other within these 20. yeares your prouinciall councells shal be aunswered by as good prouinciall councells as they are And that which I haue to say in confutation of your heresie shall be no worse then the very word of God it selfe which is better then the consent of all the world against it And although the custome of praying for the dead be an auncient errour so that fewe of the latter writers there are but they shewe them selues to be infected therewith yet hath it not such an vniuersall consent of all writers but that I shall be able by Gods grace to shew that the most auncient and nearest to the Apostles tyme receiued it not and that they which of later time admitted it had neither any ground out of the Scriptures to warrant their doing nor any certainty of faith to assure their conscience which when it is found in the ende as it is now sayd in the beginning your arrogant boasting and impudent lying togither with the falshoode of your opinions shall be manifest to all men That there be certaine sinnes vvhich may be forgeuen in the next life and that the deserued punishement for the same may be eased or vtterly released before the extreme sentence be to the vtmost executed CAP. I. 1 ANd first that sinnes may be pardoned in the next worlde that were not in this life forgeuen our Sauiours owne wordes do teach vs written in the Gospell of S. Matthew thus Ideò dico vobis omne peccatum blasphemia remittetur hominibus spiritus autem blasphemia non remittetur Et quicuÌ„que dixerit verbum contra filium hominis remittetur ei qui autem dixerit contra spiritum sanctum non remittetur ei neque in hoc saeculo neque in fuâ—uro I tell you that all maner of sinne and blasphemy shall be forgeuen vnto men but the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be forgeueÌ„ And who so euer shall speake against the sonne of man it shall be forgeuen him But if he speake against the holy Ghost it shall neither be pardoned in this worlde nor in the worlde to come The same thing in sense hath Marke and Luke affirming that such offense shall neuer be forgeuen The which worde Neuer S. Marke expresseth thus in aeternuÌ„ non habet remissionem he shall not haue pardoÌ„ as you would say in all eternity by which he may plainely seeme to reache further then the limites and borders of this worlde for the remission of sinne And this speach hath as much pith and proper force in it as S. Matthewes who expressely distinctly and belike as Christ spake it vttereth that sense of the eternity which passeth the measure of worldely time by these words Neither in this world nor yet in the world to come And for that cause S. Marke sayth Reus erit aeterni delicti he shall be gilty of an eternall faulte signifying that in some case a man might perhaps not speede of a pardon in this life yet may obteine it in the next But for that horrible blasphemy he in a maner dischargeth the offender of all hope of remission either in this life or in the next that is to come VVhich forme of wordes can neither be founde in scripture nor in mans common talke to haue any place in such thinges as extend no further but to the transitory time of our life for in those matters it had bene vsually and truely spoken it shall neuer happen in this world And therfore instructing vs that sinnes or the paine due vnto sinnes may either be released in this worlde or in the worlde to come he followeth that phrase and forme of wordes in which man might well conceiue the reache of remission and pardoning of sinnes farre to passe the compasse of our time and life CAP. I. 1 YOu were as good to kindle a fire out of yâ—e and snow as to goe about to frame your fiery forge of purgatory out of this place The meaning of our Sauiour Christ is so playne his wordes so expresse that no reasonable man can gather any errour out of them For vndoubtedly the errour of purgatory was first inuented before this place was drawne vnto it So is there no heresie so absurd which Satan putteth into the head of wicked men but it may finde some sound of wordes in so many bookes of the holy Scriptures that by peruerse wit may be wrested vnto it But the doctrine of Gods truth and all articles of our beliefe are plainly taught in the Scripture either by manifest words or by necessary conclusion and argument which by no subtilty of SataÌ„ or his instrumeÌ„ts may be auoided or deluded And this is the difference betwene heresie and truth when they both apeale to the authorities of the Scripture Truth as she hath her foundation in the Scriptures and
ante iudicium purgatorius ignis credendus est pro eo quod veritas dicit Si quis in sancto Spiritu blasphemiam dixerit neque in hoc saeculo remittetur ei neque in futuro In qua sententia datur intelligi quasdam culpas in hoc saeculo quasdam in futuro posse relaxari quod enim de vno negatur consequens intellectus patet quia de quibusdam conceditur sed tamen vt praedixi hoc de paruis minimisque peccatis fieri posse credendum est For certaine small sinnes that there is a purgatory fire before the daye of iudgement we must needes beleue because the trueth it selfe vttered so much in these wordes If any sinne against the holy Ghost it shall not be remitted neither in this worlde nor in the worlde to come By which sentence it is geuen vs to vnderstande that as some offensies be released in this worlde so there may some other be remitted in the life following For that which is denyed in one sorte the meaning is plaine that of some other kinde it must needes be graunted But as is saide before this is onely to be taken of lighter offensies thus farre spake S. Gregory and proueth learnedly beside by examples and sondry Scriptures through out the whole worke our matter If our aduersaries woulde with desire to learne as they commonly do to reprehend reade but his discourse onely they might quickely see their owne foly and amende their misbelefe They call him the last good Pope as he was in deede a blessed man and by his authority the perfect conuersion of our nation to Christes faith was wrought I woulde his holy workes deserued but as much credit now with certaine forsakers as his Legates then did with all the vnfaithfull people of our countrie But to go forwarde in our matter we shall finde in S. Bernarde the same wordes of our Sauiour alleaged for our purpose thus Non credunt ignem Purgatorium restare post mortem sed statim animam solutam a corpore vel ad requiem transire vel ad damnationem quaerant ergo ab eo qui dixit quod dam peccatum esse quod neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro remittetur cur hoc dixerit si nulla maner in futuro remissio purgatione peccati They beleue not sayth he by some heretiques of his owne time that there is any purgatory paines remaining after death but they suppose that the soule straight vpon departure hense goeth either to rest or damnation let such fellowes aske therefore of him that saide a certaine greuous crime coulde neither be forgeuen in this worlde nor in the worlde to come why he so saide if there were no remission nor purgation of sinnes in the life following thus said Bernarde opening his graue iudgement both vpon the text and our matter whose authority if any esteme lesse because of his late writing let him know that the aduersaries haue none for their side so auncient by C C C. yeare except they name the heretike Aërius or such like whose antiquitye maketh not so much for them as his auncient condemnation for heresie in this poynt maketh against them 2 M. Allen in his conscience knoweth that he hath no grounde in the authority of Gods word and therefore he flyeth to the authority of man But that he might seeme to be driuen perforce to that where vnto he doth come most willingly he pretendeth a fonde excuse because he hath to doe with such fickle marchaunts as wil not sticke to breake boldly the bands of euident Scriptures But he knoweth in his conscience that he hath no authoritye of Scripture to charge vs for if he thought we would breake the bonds of Gods word he might well thinke we would not be holden by the authoritie of mens writing and those of the latter sort six hundreth yeares after Christ the eldest For Augustine makeâ—h as litle for them as he doth against vs Gregory and Bernarde whereunto he addeth Bede are of opinion that sinnes not remitted in this world may be remitted in the world â—o come but how hapneth it that Chrysâ—stome and Ieronym which both interpreted that place could gather no such matter although they otherwise allowed prayer for the dead The reason must needes be because the errour of purgatory growing so much the stronger as it was nerer to the full reuelation of Antichrist Gregory and Bede sought not the true meaning of Christ in this Scripture but the confirmation of their pausible error M. Allen thinketh we must be sore pressed with the authoritie of Gregory because we mâ—slike not his authority where he inueigheth against the supremacy of one Bishop aboue all other or where so euer he agreeth with the truth But he must be once againe admonished that we are bound to no mannes authoritie no longer then he followeth the authoritie of Gods word And therefore though Gregory were the last of all the Romish Bishops in whom was any sparke of goodnes because Boniface his successor and so all the rest by Gregoryes owne iudgement prophecy were all Antichristes yet is not all that Gregory writte of equall authoritie with the word of God without authoritie whereof we beleue not an Angell from heauen as I haue often shewed much lesse a Bishop of Rome 3 But that in the mouth of two or three witnesses all trueth may appeare and contrary falsehood vanish away S. Augustine him selfe gathered by this place now alleaged euen then when he had no occasion geuen him by the wrangling of any misbeleuer to wreast any scripture otherwise then the very wordes imported the trueth of remission of certaine faultes in the next life in these wordes Facta resurrectione mortuoruÌ„ non deerunt quibus post poenas quas patiuntur spiritus mortuorum impertiatur misericordia vt in ignem non mittantur aeternuÌ„ neque enim de quibusdam veraciter diceretur quod non eis remittetur neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro nisi essent quibus etsi non in isto tamen remittetur in futuro There shall be certaine at the time of resurrection also who shal obteine mercy after they haue suffered such paines as deade mens ghostes do abide that they be not cast into the euerlasting fire for els it coulde not in any true sense be spoken that certaine shoulde neither haue pardon in this worlde nor in the worlde to come except there were some that speeding not of pardon in this life might yet haue remission in the next so sayth he Being I warraunt you so sadde witted and so farre from phantasies that he would not grounde any assured doctrine vpon euery light occasion offered or motion made had not the very words and forme of phrase approued it and Gods Church liked it Hauing then these graue fathers with others for our warraunt in the exposition of this place we do take it for a sure grounde that the paine of purgation in the next worlde
woulde haue robbed the Church of the actes of the Apostles A sect called Alogiani do refuse the Gospell of S. Iohn with the Apocalypse Martine illiricus Caluine and their companions that no man being but an heretique shoulde euer out pricke them will shoulder with the proudest and lifte out of our Bibles the bookes of Machabees with S. Iames Epistle and more when more nede requireth The which Epistle as also the Epistles of Iohn and Iudas were once doubted of not as conteining any matter wherof the trueth was vncertaine but as bookes not knowen to be of like force as canonicall scripture in the impugning of heresies or confirming articles of belefe as all workes be till Gods Church haue published their authority and declared all thinges in them conteined to be of the same credit that the spirite of God is and of Gospell like trueth And by that authority of the Church what booke so euer be allowed though it was not so taken before yet now we must needes accept it sicut vere est verbum Dei as the very word of god And so be these canonicall Epistles and bookes of Machabees as before is declared Here nowe euery man may learne that it is a very daungerous matter to geue lesse credit to any of these bookes or wauer in any point of faith written in them for such fellowes iudgements that nowe amongest them haue lefte vs neither olde nor newe Testament Such stubborne boldenesse had these willfull men in mainteinaunce of mischeuous doctrine VVhose open impudencie was counted handsome conueiaunce of their scholers and adherents which were very many notwithstanding the Catholike Christian men in all ages both meruailed and lamented their blindnesse And yet doubtlesse it is not much to be wondered at to see that man flatly forsake the scripture of God who is not abashed to refuse and condemne that sense and vnderstanding of the Scripture which the whole Church with all her learned men haue euer allowed and counted most holy VVell by the strength of this piller we haue chalenged and saued hitherto for all the barking of bandogges the Scripture of God with the knowne meaning thereof And so I trust we shall doe still from the new aduersaries by the assured promise of thassistance of Gods holy spirite which shall leade vs not onely to the true canonicall Scriptures with the sense of the same but also guide vs in all truth necessary for our saluation Let euery man therefore here take heede how he doubteth of the knowne and certayne sense that the Church of Christ by decree of councell or consent of doctors applyeth to any Scripture least by mistrusting the sayd sense he goe forward vnaduisedly from open deniall of the common to found a priuate meaning of his owne in the stubborne defense whereof when he shall against the truth malipertly stand he goeth vnluckely forward at the end blasphemously reiecteth the blessed word sacred Scripture of God as we haue proued the auncient enemies of truth to haue done and as in these new sect maisters we may to our great dolour see Yet loe euen these are they that in all ages as Vincentius sayth flye in their talke and teaching ouer the law the prophets the Psalmes the Gospell That cry out of pottes pulpits nothing but Gods word the booke of the Lorde the testament of Iesus Christ Paule scripture as it may be supposed and as in th ende it is proued to driue out of doores Paule Scripture Testament and Christ too and not to bring into the peoples heades or heartes the feare and loue of God the holsom precepts of Paules heauenly preaching nor the true meaning of any Scripture VVho being vrged will rather credit a minstrells ballat then the Machabeis or best booke in the Bible But now you may see that whiles these men thought to saue their credits by miscrediting the Scripture they haue wrought so wisely that they haue lost their owne credits both in this poynt and in all other for euer And as they hoped by deniall of Scripture to cloke their errour they haue wonne to them selues the property of an heretike by open shew of their owne folly 3 And euen as vaine friuolous is this discourse that followeth to shew what bookes of scripture were in olde time refused by what heretikes But you thinke to match vs with them for denying the Machabees where vnto you adde the Epistle of S. Iames. If Martine and Illyricus haue some times doubted of that Epistle they are not the first that doubted of it Eusebius sayth plainely it is a counterfect Epistle lib. 2. cap. 23. And yet he was not accompted an heretike I saye not this to excuse them that doubt of it for I am perswaded they are more curious then wise in so doing but whereas you ioine Caluine with them it is because you can not leaue to lye with out shame while you are an instrument to defend diuelish errors with out shewe of trueth For Caluine receiueth it defendeth it expoundeth it and in all his writings allegeth it as canonical scripture Therefore if he were as ill as you compt him yet it were shame to lye on the deuill But we shall not nede to â—ake among the olde heresies to finde what bookes of holy Scripture you Papistes refuse when it is an easy matter to take your owne confessions and bolde assertions by which it is manifest that you doe not as those heretikes which you name reiect some one or two bookes but the whole authority of all the canonicall scriptures For when you affiâ—me that no booke of holy Scripture is canonicall but so farre forth as your Church will allow it who seeth not that you doe abrogate all maiestie and authoritie from the word of God submitting it to the iudgements of men Moreouer when you will not admit any sence of the scripture but such as your Church wil allow although the same be contrary to the plaine wordes thereof what authority doe you leaue to the worde of God which you make to be but a dead lettre vntil you geue it such a sence as it pleaseth you Finally where you make decrees of men either priuate or common customes traditions vnwritten verities in which is no certainety at all not onely equiualent but also oftentimes superior to the auctority of holy scriptures what certainety credit or estimation doe you leaue to the scriptures of God aboue other writinges nay all other writinges are in better case then the scriptures are with you For other writings may be compted the workes of their authors with out your censure the holy Scripture may not be compted the worde of God except you list so to allow it which may as well refuse that which is Gods worde in deede as you receiue and obtrude that which is not the worde of God at all Other writings haue such sence as the authors haue expressed them selues in their workes and maye be gathered by their wordes The
mounthes or twelue mounthes mindes to haue ishued downe from S. Ambrose time to ours from the lawe of nature by the Patriarches prescription to his dayes not by mourning and mumchaunse as the buriall of Geneuas booke appointeth but at the holy altares these obites were kepte as with deuoute prayers and sacrifice VVhereof in better place I shall speake more anone He alludeth there also to our dilexi and other Psalmes which we yet singe in Gods Church ouer the departed CAP. IIII. 1 WHen you haue perforce as you phantysie made a breatch in that strong walle that enuironed the canonicall scriptures and made a great seperation between them and all other writing by thrusting in the abridgmēt of Iasons storie among them now as though you had taken the citye you make spoile and hauoke with out all order or honesty of all that liketh you within the compasse of holy writ and with out Nowe burialls mournings almes fasting festing building times and seasons all are youres But he that longeth to haue his splene or his gaule moued let him reade these discourses following if he list to laugh at foolish arguments let him come hether if he wil be angry with frowarde applications of the scripture here can he not wante occasion And first he hopeth that all they that loue the trueth will fauor his cause when they heare out of the scriptures that sacrifice for the deade was offered at Ierusalem by order of the lawe By order of the lawe M. Allen shew me one iote or title of the lawe to approue sacrifice for the deade Et eris mihi magnus Apollo Phyllida solus habebis and I will worshippe your wordes as an oracle and confesse that you onely haue the trueth I know your aunswere you haue no writing but you haue good reasons for so good a knight so many priestes so good a bishop such an author woulde neuer haue allowed it if it had not bene according to the lawe of god Touching your authour we haue saide enough already As for the good knight Iudas was not so suer of falling but Dauid a better knight then he transgressed the lawe of God to carry the arke vpon a new chariotte which shoulde haue bene borne vpon mens shoulders 1. Chron. 13. wherein not onely Dauid but so many Priestes and Leuites so good a bishop and the whole generall councell of Israell did erre Here was neither Zadocke nor Abiather nor Abinadab nor Gad nor Nathan or any other that made contradiction vntill God him selfe shewed his displeasure by killing of Vzza But because M. Allen thinketh the bishop being so good a man woulde neuer haue consented to it if it had bene euill I woulde aske of him who was bishop or high priest then that he was so good a bishop and so worthy of his commendation Suerly if he were a good man he was much to blame to suffer any such thing to be done in the temple of God which was not appointed by the lawe of god But if he were a wicked and an vngodly man by M. Allens owne reason it is not vnlike but that he woulde for the gaine of 2000 drachmes of siluer suffer such a superstitious newe vsage contrary to the lawe Now because M. Allen sayeth he was so good a bishop let him chose which it was of these 3. that satte on the seate of the high priest all the time that Iudas had any dignity amonge the people namely Iason Menclaus and Alcinus let him take the beste of them although it appeareth by the story that Menaelaus the worst of them all three was Byshop in that tyme and he shall see that no man euer except he were willfully disposed to lye would bestow such commendation vppon him as M. Allen doth to call him so good a Bishop and to defend the gouernment of so good a Bishop from suffering any superstitious vsage contrary to the law when they were all three open transgressors forsakers of the law And what the Priestes of that time were let his owne author declare 2. Mach. 4. The priestes were now no more diligēt about the seruice of the aultar but despised the temple and regarded not the sacrifices but made hast to be partakers of the wicked expenses at the play after the casting of the stone These were those reuerend Priestes of those dayes not vnlike your hedge Priestes of popery And although Iudas did afterward make a peece of reformation after the horrible prophaning of the temple and the lawes through cruell persecution yet these Priestes were not therby sodenly chaunged into godly men carefull for the sinceritie of Gods law but were redy like the reformed popish Priestes that we haue seene in our tyme to doe what so euer the Prince hath commaunded to be as ready againe to doe the contrary at an other Princes commaundement In such a time vnder so wicked a Priest no maruell if such corruption did enter Moreouer the fact of Iudas fauoureth not the popish purgatory where none but veniall and light sinnes are expiable but those that were slayne for whom the same offering was made dyed in deadly sinne as appeareth by the story they had vnder their coates Iewels consecrated to Idolls which was so heynous an offence that Iudas feared that they should haue bene all vtterly destroyed for their fault and therefore it might seeme that he caused the sacrifice to be offered not so much to pacifie God for them that were killed as to purge them selues of that pollution and prophanation sauing that the author of the booke expoundeth that fact otherwise And whereas M. Allen sayth that prayer for the dead is yet vsed of the Iewes They that haue as good cause to know their custome as he affirmeth contrary He citeth Antonius Margarita turned from a Iewe to a Papiste which auoucheth the same The rabbins in their writings when they speake of any that is dead they onely blesse his memory and in the booke of their common praiers and ceremonies printed in the hebrew tongue there is no such forme of prayer to be found for the deade But if any of them as they doe in many ceremonies papizare haue learned the superstition of the Papistes it is not this alone that they haue contrary to the word of god But lette vs come to the matter of this chapter M. Allen asketh what other thing doth all the mourning fasting and other ceremonies of burying meane but a practise for the rest of their soules I aunswere with distinction because his question is with confusion partly they meane that those which did such thinges lamēted for the departure of so excellent men partly they ment to shew their hope of their resurrection mourning fasting were to expresse their sorrow the other ceremonies were to declare that mens bodies should rise againe As for almes I find not that it was vsed at burialls But what meane you M. Allen if you be not out of your wittes to imagine prayer for the
they gaue almes But next followeth a worthy authoritie of Clement the Apostles owne scholer and he forsooth in his Epistle to Iames the brother of our Lord commendeth obites prayer and almes for the dead But why doe ye not M. Allen rehearse his owne wordes as they are written in his Epistle belike you are ashamed of his lousie latine and thinke that all wise men would say you are madde if you beleue that Clemens which liued in the Apostles time could write no better stile thē the cobling counterfecter of those epistles For shame away with such a durty doctor as writeth to S. Iames to see there be no mise tordes murium stercora among the fragments of the Lordes portion c. Epist. 2. He was a beastly asse that writ such nasty stuffe and thought to make the world beleue that such a godly and learned father as Clemens was would write so foolishly so barbarously so filthily so malapertly of such bables as were not inuented 600 yeares after to so holy and excellent an Apostle as S. Iames was but the olde prouerbe must alwayes be true Draffe is good enough for swine But to put all out of doubt the example of Iobes sacrifice and almes which were auailable for his children and friendes sheweth that the almes of men aliue profite them that be deade In deede I reade in the booke of Iobes sacrifice and prayer but I reade not of almes giuen to merite for those that were liuing much lesse for those that were deade I doubt not but Iob gaue almes liberally when tyme occasion serued But I say those places are vnfitly of M. Allen alleged to shew the force of almes where no worde of almes is spoken Howebeit he sheweth his reason afterward why he allegeth this example of Iob because Chrysostome applyeth it to the same purpose I deny not but that Chrysostome doth as substantially alleage this example for prayers to profitte the deade as he doth the saying of God that he will protect the cittie for Dauid his seruaunts sake what shall we say Those good men in that declining state of the Church to superstition being destitute of the cleere testimonies of scripture to maintaine these plausible errors are driuen to such simple shiftes to vpholde them as it is great pitty to see It seemed to Chrysostome the best waye to staye the people from immoderate mourning but he might haue vsed a better way if he had comforted them as the Apostle teacheth 1. Thess. 4. 1. Cor. 5. Otherwise when he iudged vprightly and according to the scripture his wordes sounde cleane contrary to the opinion of purgatory and workes of other men to be meritorious for the deade as in the very next Homilie being the 42. 1. Cor. Quapropter oro obsecro vos adeoque ad genua supplex procumbo c. The wordes are long therefore I will rehearse them in English and let M. Allen finde fault with my translation if he can wherefore I praye and besech you yea and I fall downe as an humble suter to your knees while neuer so small a portion of your life remaineth be ruled by my sayinges be ye conuerted be ye amended into better lest like vnto that richman when we are gone hense we pouer forth teares which shall nothing profit there and lament in vaine for whether thou hast a father or a sonne or a freind or any other whome so euer that putteth his trust in the Lorde none of these shall deliuer thee being accused of thine owne workes For such iudgement is exercised there euery man is iudged of his owne deedes neither is any man otherwise saued there And these thinges I warne you of not as he that woulde make you sadde or bring you into desperation but that being fedde with vaine and vnprofitable hopes trusting in this man or that man we shoulde not neglect our owne vertue for if we be slothfull and doe slacke the matter neither any iust man nor Prophet nor Apostle shall helpe vs but if we be diligent hauing helpe enough of our owne workes we shall departe hense with great confidence and enioye those good thinges that are layed vp for them that loue the Lord which that we may all enioye let it be so through the grace and mercy of our Lorde Iesus Christ. Compare these wordes with the former and marke here not onely the sounde of his wordes but the weight of his reasons where as in all other places that he holdeth the contrary the wordes only fauoreth your cause his reasons are either feeble or none at all 4 But that I may serue not onely the turne of trueth but with plainnesse also instruct the vnlearned and with store satisfie the godly greedinesse of some that list see more for the comforte of their conscience I will report one notable place for the declaration of charities force euen towardes the deceased out of Gregory Nissen of the Greeke church and an other out of Athanasius the greate both directly touching the practise of good Tobie in compassion of the deade Thus sayth Gregory Dicitur bene quòd si qui hinc non praemissis bonis migrauerint postea à familiaribus neglecta oblatis reliquijs sarciantur imputari opus perinde ac ab eis factum fuerit est enim haec volūtas benignissimi Domini vt creaturae quae ad salutem petuntur sic petantur distribuantur vt exoretur non solum quando quis pro salute propria est anxius sed quando pro proximo aliquid operatur in english It is very well saide that if any depart this life his goods by alme◠being not sent to God before him and yet afterwarde the matter by his freindes in the offering vp the residue be amended that his freindes fact shall stande and be reputed as his owne worke For so hath God of his mercy ordeined that his creatures by vse whereof life and saluation may be obteined shoulde so be procured and in this ordre disposed that man shoulde not onely obteine his request in the carefull study of his owne saluation but also when he wellworketh for his frende or neighbour Here may we well perceiue that all the wayes of our Lorde be mercy and trueth And that he in a maner releeueth of his owne accorde our miseries both here and in the next life that there may be no damnation to such as be in Christ Iesus for whose sakes he turneth these base creatures of mans seruice in this life to the vse of his pardon and saluation in the life to come he accepteth the good will and trauell of other for the helpe of them which can not relieue them selues And which is the property of a most mercyfull father where he loueth he will raise the hearte of some good intercessor that by patronage and prayers of some lust Iob his fury may cease by his owne procurement But howe this mutuall worke of mercye is currant through the
full of posing M. Protestant as though you were Iohannes ad oppositum I wil pose you M. Allen an other while or any M. Papiste of you all that hath a forheade to mainteine this trumperie for Clemenâ— the auncient Bishoppes writing Alas Syr what if this be proued counterfect that you saye is so olde and you with out peraduenture lye that of late haue founde it so auncient what grounde haue your schollers then Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already how will you proue it then to be a tradition of the Apostles your aunswere wil be still Clenens sayth it But alacke Sir whether is it more licke that Eusebius and Hieronym that lyued neerer to the time of S. Clement by twelue hundreth yeares then you shoulde know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you But Eusebius and Hieronym neuer hearde of such writinges as were neuer seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundreth yeares after Clemens his death Where shoulde you haue them then but of some counterfecting knawe that coulde not otherwise maintaine his heresie to be old but by falsyfying and counterfecting a newe that which neuer was in the olde writers heades But to shew that your shamelesse Clement daunceth bare and breechelesse with out all honesty I will yet pose you further and bidde you call your wittes together to aunswere me Whether had you rather graunt that so holy a Pope as Clemens was did erre or â—hat he was a false knaw that woulde father an error vppon so holy a mans name and credit your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be obserued for the departed according to the olde forme because the people did so obserue the bewayling of Moses But if the scripture affirme that the people bewayled Moses but 30. dayes Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of Gods worde and his foolish decree builded vppon his false grounde How saye you now M. Allen is this Apostolike or apostotaticall is this plaine dealing or Popish counterfecting was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture or was he an ignorant hypocrite that fayned this vnder the name of Clemens Trueth seaketh not to be mainteined which lyes fayth looketh not to be defended by falsehoode The Church of Christ craueth no counterfected authoritie to establish her doctrine Therefore it is neither trueth nor fayth nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ that you mainteine defend and establish by lying falsyfying and counterfecting but error infidelity and heresie he therefore that will forsake the certainetie of Gods worde to builde vpon the traditions of men for leuing the only pathe of trueth hath a iust rewarde to fall into the pitte of error 5 VVell I will close vp this parte of our talke for Tobies almes borde in the obittes of Christian men with S. Augustines graue iudgement who as he is plaine for the benefite of oblations in the memorialls of mens departures in all placies so here in a maner he ordereth the action thereof for abusies that might thereon arise in his epistle to Aurelius The offeringes sayth he obserued for the soules departed whereof there is no question but profet ariseth to them let them not be ouer sumptuous vpon the mindes of the deceased nor soulde away but geuen with out grudge or disdaine to such as be present and woulde be partaker thereof but if mony be offered it may be distributed out of hande to the poore and then shall not those dayes of their freindes memorialles be to their great griefe forsaken or destitute of companie And the ordre with honeste comelinesse shall be kept continually in the Church So S. Clement him selfe teacheth all them that be called to such dayes of prayers for the departed and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieues which were by some honest sober refreshing euen in the Church in those dayes obserued whether they be of the laity or of the priestes he geueth them this lesson Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini cum modestia cum dei timore comedite veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis cum sitis presbyteri diaconi Christi sobrij esse debetis priuatim cum alijs vt possitis intemperantes coercere All you that are called to the funeralles of the departed refresh your selues in measure and feare of God that you may be worthy to be as it were in commission of intreatie for the deade and being priestes or deacons of Christ you are bounde to be sobre euen at home but abrode for others example and discipline 5 You had bene as good to haue left out the comparing of Augustines oblations with Tobies almes borde for that custome which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies almes borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profit some what Sed quoniaÌ„ istae in caemiterijs ebrietates luxuriosa conuiuia non solùm honores martyrum in carnali imperita plebe credi solent sed etiam solatia mortuorum mihi videtur facilius illic dissuadeâ—i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem si de scripturis prohibeatur oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae c. But because this dronkennesses and riotous festes vsed in the Church yeardes of the carnall and vnskillfull people are wonte to be beleued not onely to be the honour of the martyrs but also the comforte of the deade my thinke it were more easy that this filthynesse and beastlynesse may be there diswaded if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures and that the oblations for the spirites of the deade which truely we must beleue doth helpe somewhat vpon the memories them selues be not sumptuous c. But if Augustine had knowen the horrible abuses which grew afterwarde by permission of these oblations he woulde as well haue prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs as for comforte of deade mens soules As for Clement that teacheth the preistes and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating where they were bidden to buriall feastes euen here also he sheweth him selfe in his owne colours As though in the dayes of Clemens when the Church was in great persecution they had nothing els to doe but to keepe sumptuous feastes at their burialls where at the priestes and deacons were in daunger of glouttony dronkennesse as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride seldome temperate or sober and lest of all at burialls and monthes mindes c. That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth CAP. VII 1 THus farre we now are broght I trust with proofe and euidence enough with
aultar And therefore seeing Victor contrary to the forme giuen by the Priestes in councell was so bold to make Geminus Faustinus an elder his executor there is no cause that oblation should be made among you for his falling a sleepe or that any prayer in his name should be frequented in the Church c. By these wordes it appeareth first that Cyprian in these termes sacrifice Priest aultar alludeth to the sacrifices of thankesgiuing in the lawe because he vseth also that name of Leuites by which he calleth Gods ministers For as for the sacrifice propitiatory was offered in the law only by the high Priest once in the yeare So that he meaneth no other oblation or sacrifice for the dead but the sacrifice of thankesgiuing which was for their godly departure And therefore he calleth it not a sacrifice for their sinnes but for their falling a sleepe And by prayer he meaneth nor prayer for deliuery of the deade out of purgatory but as Origen sayth for the faithfull liuing to haue the like godly departure as he had that was fallen a sleepe And therfore he sayth not that such a one is not worthy to be praied for but he is not worthy to be named in the prayer which was made for them that remayned to ende their dayes happily as such a one or such a one whose names were recited in those memories had already fulfilled their course For otherwise what so euer M. Allen iangleth of the seueritie of the churches discipline if they had thought the soules of the departed to be in so great torments and that prayer and sacrifices had bene such a necessary helpe for them it had bene â—o much crueltie for one offence that not so great either to condemne a man to so horrible punishment or to deny him vtterly all maner of helpe and comfort The discipline of the Church when it is most seuere is to bring to repentaunce them that are in life not to rage against them that are deade which can not repent Nor to reiect any man vtterly but him that is certainly knowne to be vtterly forsaken of god But this Geminius Victor of whom Cyprian thus writeth was a good Christian in somuch that Cyprian him selfe calleth him his brother Geminius Victor frater noster de saeculo excedens Our brother Geminius Victor departing out of this world c. Wherfore if the punishment had extended to the torment of his soule or the hinderance of reliefe vnto his soule being in tormentes the Churche would not haue bene so rigorous against a faithful brother for mayntenance of their owne decree which was not expresly forbidden by the word of god Wherefore it may appeare that this punishment was only a note of ignominy to Victor him selfe for his transgression at his departure especially an example for the rest of the brethren as Cyprian sayth that they cal not away the ministers of God from his seruice to worldly affayres lest they be likewise noted of infamy when they are deade 5 And here nowe our aduersaries must be called vpon and asked howe they can away with this geare whether this light of trueth be not ouer vehement for their bleared eyes owle light or moneshine I trow or mirke midnight were more fit for their darke workes and doctrine our waye is ouer much trodden for theeues All this course of our cause so agreeth with it selfe so standeth with reason so vpholden by scripture so ordered in all pointes that Momus him selfe coulde practise no art nor picke no quarelles here For such we must praye for those we must not praye in this case the sacrifice of Gods Church relieueth the departed in that case it is comfortable onely to the liuinge some men neede helpe after their death others helpe we neede and not they ours for open infidelles and heretikes prayers are not vsed for all secret offendres because their case is not knowen to the Church of charity towardes her children she openly prayeth some she punisheth some she pardoneth for all she merueillous tenderly careth This doctrine of trueth is purposely ordered by our elders euery point is touched and tried to our handes VVhat time of the day was it in Gods Church saye trueth and shame the deuill when holy Cyprian wrote these thinges when the Councell of Aphricke decreed these thinges when Victor was punished by lacke of sacrifice and prayers at his departure doeth your time of ignoraunce which you haue limited for your walke reach vp so high in Gods house but I will spare you to anone your aunswere is not ready 5 And here now our aduersary must occupy his goose quill like the gooses trumpet to awake vs to aunswere him as though we were a sleepe or he so well appoynted to fight against vs we must be asked howe we can away with this geare Surely as the sunne is not obscured with the dust that a cocke casteth vp wheÌ„ he scrapeth on the dunghill no more is the sonne of righteousnes our onely ful redemption or the light of his holy word darkned by all the myste of mennes deuises which Allen or his complices can rayse out of the whole heape of superstition and errour to deface the glory of his truth The Lord is our light and saluation therefore we will not be a feard of purgatory The word of the Lorde is a light vnto our steppes and a lanterne vnto our feete therefore we will not walke in the darkenes of mens traditions Our workes and doctrine shall one daye be tryed before God and therfore we make no accompt how we be iudged by mans daye and lest of all by such a mans dome as hath his tongue more ready to rayle and sclaunder then his hearte instructed to discerne and iudge your way is your owne way and not the way of the Lorde and because you take an other way vnto saluation then the onely right way Iesus Christ therefore by his owne sentence you are all theeues and murderers But because you gather your forces together to shew the strength of your cause I will also generally shew your feeblenesse to the ouerthrow of your purpose The course of your cause you say so agreeth with it selfe What els To proue that there is purgatory you vrge the satisfying of Gods iustice so extremely that beside the suffering of Christ and forgeuenes of sinnes yet there must needes be a suffering of the party that offended But when you will shew by what meanes this suffering maye be either mitigated or cleane taken away you cleane take away the extremitie of Gods iustice which before you so earnestly maintained O worthy agreemeÌ„t of your cause with it selfe Beside the agreement with it selfe it so standeth with reason Suerly howe reasonable so euer it seemeth to you that the merites of men shoulde winne that which the merites of Christ coulde not winne that the suffering of men shoulde satisfie for that which the suffering of Christ coulde not satisfie with the
in that honorable action prayeth and Christ him selfe is both the sacrifice and the priest both the asker and the geuer of pardon when the maiesty of God the blessed trinitie is passingly pleaced by the merites of Christes death so liuely set out in these honorable but vnspeakable misteries what maye we not here procure for the soule of the Churchies childe what shall be denied to so humble askers in the presence of Gods owne sonne and begging mercy for his deathes sake And so doth S. Chrysostome assure the faithfull in these golden wordes Non frustra ab apostolis sancitum est vt in celebratione venerandorum mysteriorum memoria fiat eorum qui hinc discesserunt nouerunt quippe illis multum hinc emolumeÌ„ti fieri multum vtilitatis stante siquidem vniuerso populo manus in coelos extendente coetu item sacerdotali verendoque proposito sacrificio quomodo deum non placaremus pro istis orantes It was not for nought that the Apostles decreed and ordeined that in the celebration of the honorable mysteries there shoulde be an especiall memoriall of the departed for they right wâ—ll knewe greate commodity and benefite to arise there vpon For the whole multitude holding vp their handes towardes heauen together with the company and quiere of priests and the dreadfull sacrifice set forth before all men how is it possible but we shoulde appeace Gods wrath praying for them looke ye what this mans iudgement was and see from whense he had it euen of the holy Apostles â–ª I warraunt you and no worse nor later founders But of that pointe for the full deriuing of our Christian vsage from the first fathers of our faith more conuenient place shall be geuen herafter Nowe I will serue the cause and the readers desire first with certaine peculiar examples of most learned and godly fathers worthy of all credit in the godly prouision for certeine of their dearest friendes by sacrifice and prayer both made by them selues procured by others That we may haue here not onely whome to beleeue teaching the trueth but whome to followe practising the same with deuotion which they preached with constancie before 5 Not altogether out of hope yet to find some foolish merchantes that will paye dearly for vnprofitable wares you comforte your selfe after your complainte exhorting men to procure the holy sacrifice for their freindes and fellowes why M. Allen if there be either such necessity or such profit of that sacrifice wherefore doe not your priests with out procurement offer it vp to the vttermost aduauntage that maye be had by it But you must haue procurers yea you must haue good paye maisters or els the olde prouerbe must be true No peny no pater noster As touching the place of Chrysostome I haue shewed already by his owne interpretation that although he allow prayers for the dead vsed in time of the celebration which he calleth sacrifice yet he alloweth no sacrifice in deede but onely a thankes geuing in remembraunce of the sacrifice of Christ. But where he sayeth it was decreed by the Apostles that in the celebration of the holy misteries a remembraunce should be made of them that are departed he must pardon vs of crediting because he can not shewe it out of the actes and writinges of the Apostles And we will be bolde to charge him with his owne saying Hom. De Adam Heua Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secundum predictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus non opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit prefixis sententijs contrarium we thinke it sufficeth enough what so euer the writinges of the Apostles haue taught vs according to the fore sayed rules in so much that we compt it not at all Catholike what so euer shall appeare contrary to the rules appointed And againe In Genes Hom. 58. Vides in quantam absurditatem incidunt qui diuinae scripturae canonem sequi nolunt sed suis cogitationibus permittunt omnia Thou seest into how greate absurdity they fall which will not follow the canon of holy Scripture but permitt all thinges to their owne cogitations but if we be further vrged we will alledge that which he sayth In Euan. Ioan. Hom. 58. Qui sacra non vtitur Scriptura sed ascendit aliunde id est non concessa via fur est He that vseth not the holy Scripture but clymeth an other way that is by a way not allowed is a theefe We may be as bold with Chrysostome as he sayd he would be with Paule him selfe in 2. ad Tim. ho. 2. Plus aliquid dica ne Paulo quidem obedire oportet si quid dixerit proprium si quid humanum sed Apostolo Christum in se loquentem circumferenti I will say somewhat more we must not be ruled by Paule him selfe if he speake any thing that is his owne and any thing that is humane but we must obey the Apostle wheÌ„ he carieth Christ speaking in him Wherfore seeing it is certayne by testimony of Iustinus Martyr that there was no mention of the deade in the celebration of the Lords supper for more then an hundreth yeares after Christ we must not beleue Chrysostome without Scripture affirming that it was ordeyned so by the Apostles That the practise of any pointe in religion maketh the most open shevve of the fathers faith And that all holy men haue in plaine vvordes and most godly prayers vttered their beliefe in our matter CAP. IX 1 ANd I take the open practise of any point to be a more pithy protestation of a mans faith then by wordes can be made Therefore if a man were doubtfull either of the trueth of any article or of the meaning of some doctors wordes looke the same mans practise and it shall put him out of doubt thereof straight wayes as for an example seeme some wordes of S. Augustine to make for the sacramentaries heresie that Christ is in the honorable sacrament but by figure or Theodoretus or any other auncient fathers declaration are their wordes doubtfull to the reader leaue the wordes then if thou sincerely seeke for trueth with out contention seeke out if thou can some practise of those same men and that Church where they liued for the same point But what waye of worke in this matter consisting in doctrine may assure vs of their belefe of whose wordes we doubted before Mary sir this looke how they behaued them selues in the receiuing of it in the ministering of it in the carefull keping of it whether they did adore it with godly honour whether they solemnely shewed it to the people to be worshipped whether they praide by solemne and formall wordes vnto it whether they taught their children to call it God and Christ yea so farre that Augustine affirmeth that the children in his dayes till they were after instructed thought that God appeared in the shape of breade as all these yongers seeing the honour reuerence of their elders
that was the worst and cursed was he that was counted the best then is our case most carefull then are we worse then all other nations that neuer receiued the name of Christ then are we worse then we were before our conuersion then to be shorte there is no religion no Christ no God no hope of saluation 2 I am content to staye with you and ponder as much as is meete the conuersion of the Saxones vnto the faith of christ And first I saye that you reason both falsely and foolishly to proue that either all opinions were true or else all false that the Saxones receiued at there first conuersion For though prayer for the deade and other superstitious opinions then receiued were false yet doth it not follow that all that then was taught them for Christianity was false For although Augustine had bene voyde of all true articles of the faith yet the byshoppes and christian teachers of the Brytish nation in whose ayde they required and at last obtayned to the conuerting of the Saxones reteyned the foundation of fayth Iesus Christ and the onely sacrifice of his death And this was the fayth that was receiued euen of the Saxones as appeareth by those homylies that yet remaine in the Saxon tongue appointed to be reade vnto the people for their instruction and namely in that printed Saxone homylie which was appointed to be reade at Easter where in is declared not onely the faith of the Church at that time concerning the sacrifice of Christ his death but also that heresie of popish transubstantiation and the reall presence of Christes body in the sacrament is pithily confuted And therefore it is altogither vntrue that you say M. Allen that they did institute a sacrifice to the defacing of our redemption as you do that they did adore the sacrament as the natural body of Christ as you doe or counted it a â—â—opitiatory sacrifice for the quicke and the deade as you doe although they vsed vnprofitable prayers for the deade and many other superstitions Neither doth it follow that all that taught or beleued those errours so long as they builded vpon Christ the only foundation haue perished or that all they taught was false because some thing was vntrue or that God hath deceaued vs with fayned miracles which Satan hath shewed to set vp the kingdom of Antichrist euen in the temple of God with all lying signes and wonders 2. Thes. 2. To conclude no truth is false no vertue is vice no good thing is euill because all was not true all was not vertue all was not good that was receiued and practised among them 3 All which things if they repugne to common sense and reason and to the comfortable hope of our saluation which we haue receiued from God by Christ Iesus and the assured testimony of the spirite of God that we be a part of his chosen Church sanctified in his holy name by the word of truth and life which we by the ordinary ministery of man haue receiued signes and wonders confirming their calling and doctrine then this religion which they planted first in our country must nedes be in all points both holy true and accepâ—able vnto god Then as by that religion our fathers were ingraffed first into Christes body misticall which is the Church in which till this day they haue kept the high way to saluation so who so euer forsaketh this or any principall article or braunch thereof and so leaueth that Church into which we first entered at our conuersion he leaueth assuredly life and saluation and without all doubt euerlastingly perisheth Amongest which pointes of doctrine our aduersaries can not deny but the saying masse and offering for the deade the almes and prayers for the departed was taught with the first and proued by miracles with the rest The which either to deny were ouer much discredit of the antiquitie and plaine impudencie or else to attribute them to the deuills working were open vntollerable blasphemy 3 There is nothing that you saye in this parte or that you can say in this respect to proue that the religion here receiued was in all pointes holy true and acceptable to God because it was in some and those the chiefe but it may be sayed by the nations of the Gothes and Vandalles which were first conuerted from hethenish idolatry to the profession of the name of Christ by the Arrian heretikes to defend that there religion was in all pointes holy true and acceptable to God or by them that were conuerted by the Donatistes Nouations or any other heretikes For although the Arrians were blasphemous heretikes yet they tought many thinges truely and soundly concerning the faith of christianitie And therefore no more then the religion of the Arrians who first turned those nations was true in all pointes though it were in many no more I saye was euery article that was tought vnto the Saxons which were conuerted by superstitious Romanistes in all pointes true notwithstanding that many things and the principall were true So much therefore as may be iustified by the worde of God of that doctrine is holy true and acceptable to God but that which is contâ—ary to the doctrine of the holy Scriptures is neither receiued from God nor Christ neither hath it any testimony of his spirite by what presumptuous words oâ— apperance of signes and wounders so euer it be vttered Neither is it any greater offence for the English men to renounce the error of praying for the deade or abusing the communion to the similitude of a sacrifice or any other superstition then or at any time after receiued then it was for the Gothes or Vandalles to forsake the hereticall and blasphemous opinions of the Arrians by whome they were first perswaded to reuerence the name of Christ or for any other that were turned by any heretikes to forsake their first errors and geue place to the trueth after reueiled vnto them And whereas you affirme that we can not deny but that Masse offering almes and prayer for the deade were taught with the first and proued by miracle with the rest we may be bolde to deny that they were at the first taught so grossely as they be now maintained impudently And as for miracles I meane such as were prophecied to be the efficacy of error in the kingdome of Antichrist we will confesse that these and like errors had alwayes great plenty to establish them as they which had no authoritie out of the holy Scriptures to approue them 4 Yea this doctrine hath brought the Church to this bewtifull order in all degrees as we haue seene All the noble monuments not onely in our common wealth but through Christes Church doe beare sufficient testimony of our first faith herein This doctrine as the whole world knoweth founded all Bishoprikes builded all Churches raised all Oratories instituted all Collegies indued all Schooles mainteyned all hospitalles set forward all workes of charity and religion of what
benedicta agni videlicet immaculati qui tollis peccatum mundi potare de fonte pietatis tuae qui per lanceam militis de latere emanauit crucifixi Christi domini nostri vt consolati exultent in laude gloria tua sancta This in English we besech the most holy father for the soules of all faithfull departed that this high and greate sacrament of piety may be vnto them helth and salfty for euer ioye release and perpetuall refreshing O my Lorde God geue them this daye greate and perfect comfort of thee which art the bread that came downe from heauen and geuest life to the worlde Let them take ioye of thy holy and blessed flesh that is to saye of the lambe that taketh awaye the sinnes of the worlde Geue them to drinke of the springe of thy piety which by the pricke of the souldiers speare did aboundantly ishue out of the side of our Sauiour Christ and Lorde crucified that they being so comforted may reioyse in thy laude and glory euerlastingly To be brieefe all the Christian worlde agreeing as Isiodorus saith vpon one waye for the celebration of diuine mysteries maketh intercession for the faithfull departed that by the blessed sacrifice they maye obteine pardon and remission of their sinnes 7 It is a world to see that you haue nothing in a manner but forged euidence to proue the antiquitie of prayer for the deade in publicke seruice of the Church Who is so ignoraunt in antiquitie but he that will needes be obstinate that knoweth not those preparatories to that masse to be none of S. Ambrose his doings Otherwise it were not harde to proue that by the name of sacrifice he meaneth thankes geuing for the sacrifice of Christ as the maner of that vnpropre speach was to terme the holy sacrament which is but the seale of our saluation and not the matter thereof it selfe To be briefe what so euer Isidorus sayth if all the worlde agreed that intercession and sacrifice should be offered for the deade seeing it disagreeth from the worde of God and the practise of the primitiue Church so long as it followed the rule of Gods worde it is no whit to be regarded 8 For I assure the good reader that all realmes which nowe by Gods grace are in true faith and their Christianitie continuing or else before haue bene and now by schisme doe forsake the same that all those nations as they receiued one faith so in substance they haue euer agreed vniformely in order of seruice which they receiued at their first conuersion from the way of gentilitie by the good prouision of such as wrought vnder God in their happy turne to the Christian faith and religion The same men that brought in the faith of Iesus with all brought in this way of worshipping Christ in the same faith take away then this order of worship and solemne supplication which they planted thou must needes ouerthrowe the faith which they taught also This I say was euer found in the celebration of the fearefull mysterie of Christes body and blood besides the oblation of that holy host for the quicke and dead both namely for certaine and generally for all departed in Christ a solemne prayer and supplicatiō VVhich no doubt Christ instituted at his last supper which the holy Ghost afterward secretly suggested to the Apostles which they againe faithfully deliuered to the nations conuerted by their preaching and to diuerse of their owne disciples by whom the same was deriued downe to our dayes taught in all nations and carefully practised of all people VVhereof we haue worthy witnesses for all countries almost For so the godly doctors Tertullian Cyprian Augustine both taught and worshipped in Africke the same doth Hierom and Damascene in Syria Origen and Athanasius in Egypte Denyse the auncient and Bernarde in Fraunce Chrysostome in Thrase Basill and his brethern in Cappadocia Ambrose and Gregory the greate in Italy Augustine our apostle and Bede in our countrie of England with the rest of all nations baptized whome I named before and might doe yet a number what shoulde I say a numbre all that euer were counted Catholikes since the beginning were of the same sense in that cause And to name the residue where these do not serue it were lost labour For whome they can not moue I can not tell what maye perswade him in any matter Or if he dare not bestow his credit on these mens doinges whome maye he salfely trust If the communion and faithfull fellowship of so many godly and gracious men so vniformely consenting both in the teaching and practising of this matter can not sattell and quiet a mans conscience who can appeace his disquieted vnsteadfast minde and cogitation If in the construing of Gods word and scriptures so many of such graue iudgement of so approued wisedome of so passing learning of such earnest studie in tryall of the trueth of so vertuous a life of so heauenly a gifte and grace in the expounding of Gods worde maye not be salfely followed in this our search whome shoulde we follow or to whome shoulde the simple addicte them selues in so greate a turmoyle of learned men one sorte craking so fast of scripture and the other sorte when the matter commes to triall alleaging so many with so auncient and graue testimony for the true meaning of the same to which I saye is it wisedome to geue consent and credit if not to such as faithfully both followe and recite the scripture with the agreement of the worlde for the true sense thereof S. Augustine writing against Parmenianus the Donatiste much woundereth in that cleere light of trueth and the Churches doctrine the heretikes coulde be blinde or not see the euidence of that which all the worlde but them selues sawe And in many places he reckeneth the most horrible punishment in the worlde to be the cecity and blindenesse which God striketh the stubborne mans hearte with all in forsaking the fellowship of the Churches children But he that considereth the processe of our cause maye a thousand times more maruaill and feare Gods heuy iudgement in the blinding of the disobedient mens heartes and senses for sinne If they them selues were of their consciences examined what els they would wishe for the triall of any doubt I am sure they coulde name no one point nor any meanes in the worlde which our cause woulde not suffer and admitte For by what waye so euer any trueth in Gods Church was seuerally in the auncient times auouched against the aduersary heretike I am sure we haue the same with the aduauntage And for this last point of prayers in the Masses of all nations it is so euident that no man can gaine saye it and so generally practised that the vsage of praying coulde in no matter euer so cleerely set out the certaintie of our belefe as in this 8 If you will take M. Allens assurance in so weighty a matter that vseth so commonly to
they might in heate of contention and heresie casely drie vp the whole ishue therof And this earnest consideration causeth many at this daye to forsake their heresies and to be a greate deale mo at this time which know the trueth of this matter then when they beganne first to preach thereof 4 Bring this mans faith to Gregory then the streame shall driue him to Peter and Paule Nay M. Allen bring you your faith from Peter and Paule by good testimony of their holy writings and then you shall not neede to rowe in Cockelaurels bote neither with streame nor against it But you offer vs fayre play we must bring you one Bishop of Rome that did set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteyne and you will seeke a newe mother Church If I should bring you Sabinianus which controlled the decrees of Gregory or Stephanus that condemned the decrees of Formosus from which time the story testifieth that it grewe vnto a custome that euery Bishop would coÌ„demne his predecessors decrees you woulde aunswere that all this was without your compasse So will you say if I name Honorius who was an heretike of the sect of the Monothelites condemned both by his successor and by a generall councell I bring no small proofes M. Allen but such as you can not with for greater Looke in the sixt generall councell holden at Constantinople Acti 13. there shall you reade that the decretall epistle of Honorius whereby he confirmed Sergius in his heresie was redde and burned Honorius him selfe anathematized as an heretike Loke a litle further vnto the 18. action there shall you find the decretall epistle of Pope Leo the second written to the councell wherein he condemneth Honorius his predecessor for an heretike and his doctrine for heresie But what say you to Liberius Felix whereof eyther one or as Ieronym affirmeth both were Arians how were their decrees liked of their successors how did they allowe the decrees of their predecessors Finally where as you say that our earnest often preaching against the Pope hath wonne you so many Catholikes we will by Gods grace continue to gratifie you still by that meanes and geue you good leaue when you haue counted your cardes to boast of your winnings 5 But I will not presse them ouer sore suppose I graunt them that which they would so gladly winne that we had not our faith first from Rome though it be as false as God is true But suppose it were not so and I geue you leaue to father your faith where you will. If it be not vpon Latimer whome a foolish fellowe in the booke of conference betwixt Latimer and Ridley termeth the English Apostle as one more worthy of that name as he sayth then Augustine but else where you will and when you haue done proue me that your mother Church prayeth not for the departed in her Masse and solemne seruice and you shall be exalted vp for euer And at your next chaunge frame your newe communion after that olde vsage on Gods blessinge If you can finde any forme of celebration farre enough from ours followe it and spare not But I am sure you shall neuer be hable to finde any olde seruice in the worlde fit for your newe diet They be all to much like our Masse for your purpose as in deede alone in euery pointe of importance with ours As the Churches to whome they belonged perfectly before their decay in faith and vnity agreed with ours 5 Although we account Latimer for a worthy teacher and more worthy of the name of an Apostle for his apostolike doctrine then Augustine the Monke yet builde we our faith as you know neither vpon him nor any other but onely vpon the word of god And as for our mother Church is no certayne place or company of men in any one place vpon earth but Ierusalem which is aboue is mother of vs all Galat. 4. And who so euer were children of this Church would neuer find fault with our communion which can not be condemned by the worde of God and therefore careth not for the comparison of the custome of other men which whether they vsed the like or not in forme of wordes which is not materiall so they vsed not other substance of matter except they did it beside the word of god How like your Masse is to other couÌ„try masses when there was neuer any masse but yours I leaue it to consider and compare to all them that had rather see the truth them selues then to be deceiued by you 6 I am sure when you can not like your owne communion ye woulde not be pleaced with one of an others making But an other you must needes haue and further you must go from vs walke forwarde you will to the extreme ende of heresie and vtter denying of Christianity All the world can not stoppe your falling from the hill of Gods Church till you come in the bottomlesse pit of Hell. I woulde be loth to sclaunder them with the brute of the worlde which though it be in euery mans mouth that they like not this communion yes vpon that rumour I would not haue sayd so farre but that they haue vttered their owne meaning in a treatise of their owne making in these wordes In mariage as in all other thingeâ— beside we are but to much like vnto them that is our â—ault generally that we differ not more from them in all our ministerie These wordes vtter their griefe that they can got no further from vs in their seruice and that you be not deceiued the author of this booke where this complainte is made knoweth well the meaning of his fellowes herein and how gladde they woulde be shiftinge forwarde They sit on thornes till they be doing with a newe gise It is no worse man then the B. of Duresme that taketh colde in so longe a stand of their communion My simple head coulde not deuise how they might possibly go forwarde and kepe them with in any bonde of Christianity VVhat they caste in their braine for their further proceding I can not tell the serpent is suttel and our sinnes be greate 6 If any man mislike the forme of our seruice as not differing sufficiently from yours he sheweth his greater zeale in detestation of your idolatry and blasphemy In the meane time what neede this great wondring for once or twise alteration in the forme where the matter is still reteyned when if we shall beleue your owne stories your seruice hath not had much lesse then an hundreth innouations so often as one peece or other was added or patched to it And yet in this one cuntry of England howe many diuerse formes of seruice had you so that you could neuer grow to vniformitie Yorke Salesbury Bangor Hereford c. 7 I much maruaill not nowe to see the temporall Magistrates of their wisedomes to hedge these mens
Scriptures nor in the most auncient writers that lyued with in an hundreth yeares and more after the time of christ And to the particuler practise of the later times we aunswere that it is not sufficient to controll the auncient doctrine and primer practise If we be required to shew some place of any auncient writer which denyeth purgatory or prayers for the deade we haue already shewed that Augustine some time doth doubt whether there be purgatory some time affirmeth there is no meane or thirde place but heauen for the elect and hell for the reprobate likewise for praying or satisfying for the deade we haue alleaged Cyprian and others your owne common law out of Hieronym sayth that the prayers of the liuing profit not the deade 13. quaest 2. In praesenti saeculo c. In this present worlde we knowe that one of vs may be helped of an other either by prayers or by counsells but when we shoulde come before the iudgement seate of Christ neither Iob nor Daniel nor Noe can intreate for any man but euery man must beare his owne burthen Yea Gelasius the Pope sayth that no man can be absolued of the Pope after his death 24. q. 2. C. legatur Wherefore serue the Popes pardons then To that which is required of the expresse word of God forbidding prayers for the deade we aunswere that all places of scripture that forbidde prayers without fayth forbidde prayer for the deade for faith is not euery mans vaine perswasion but an assurance out of the worde of God which because we can not haue in praying for the dead therefore we are forbidden to praye for them If it be against the hope of Christians to morne for the deade much more it is against the fayth and hope of Christians to praye for them For by our prayer we suppose them to be in misery whome the worde of God doth testifie to be in happines to be at rest to be with Christ Iohn 17. Apoc. 14. And as for a place so expounded by an auncient writer I will seeke no farther then the place of Hieronym euen now alleaged out of your owne canon lawe vppon 2. Cor. 5. referring the reader to many other places alleaged in this aunswere as out of Cyprian Origene and others by which the intollerable lying bragging and rayling of this miscreant shal be better confuted then by any contradiction of wordes And where as he sayeth we chalenge the olde doctors before the simple for our partakers whether they be simple or wise before whom we speake as we speake not alwayes before the simple onely but often times and commonly before as wise and well learned men as M. Allen we neuer make any such challenge of them as the Papistes doe which offer to stand to their iudgement in all thinges and yet in most thinges yea in the cheefest pointes of religion that be so in deede or be so compted of them they are contrary to the doctors and olde councells for which cause and not for confirmation of trueth we alleage the authoritie of men for we haue learned as Augustine sayth to geue this honor only to the canonicall scriptures that we must beleue them with out controuersie and all other writings we receiue so farre as they agree with the scriptures and not other wise wherefore we doe not onely saye that the doctors haue erred like men but we haue proued it so that the Papistes them selues can not saye naye for shame But to that he sayth we doe boldely condemne the holy Scriptures that it out of all measure impudent and sclaunderous And that which he citeth out of Irenaeus belike as he had it of some foolish priest that fedde him with notes of doctors or as he is impudent enough to peruerte the fathers meaning him selfe so if he had alleged the whole sentence he might well haue taken him selfe and the rest of his fellowes by the noses for heretikes by the iudgemeÌ„t of Irenaeus whose wordes be these Cum enim ex scripturis arguantur in accusationem conuertuntur ipsarum scripturarum quasi non rectè habâ—ant neque sit ex authoritate quia variè sunt dictae quia non possit inueniri veritas ab his qui nesciant traditionem non enim per literas traditam illam sed per viuam vocem When they be confuted by the scriptures they are turned into the accusation of the scriptures them selues as though they were not well nor of sufficient authority both because the trueth can not be founde of them which knowe not the tradition for that was not deliuered by writing but by worde of mouth How saye you M Allen who is an heretike by Irenaeus iudgement who accuseth the scriptures as though they were not of sufficient authority who sayth the scriptures are like a nose of waxe who saye the trueth can not be founde in scriptures without tradition of vnwritten verities In good sooth M. Allen you haue the worst grace of any that euer I knew in alleaging the sentences of the doctors for you alleage fewe or none but either in whole or in parte they make against you 9 But if you thinke that I feane of them you shall see what shamefull shiftes the maisters and captaines of the contrary assertion haue deuised for the defense of them selues I dare say if the studious be but any whit indiffereÌ„t he will leaue their sâ—hoole for euer The chiefe Captaine of all these contentious heades like an vnshamefast childe affiâ—meth that the doctors praysed and followed the common errors of the ignorant people in almes and prayers for the departed Brentius aunswereth that Tertullian making mention of yearly oblations for the deceased tooke his error of the hethen vsage of the gentility And Augustine he saith affirmed purgatory prayers and almes for them for the affiance that he had in mens merites towardes the remission of sinnes Melancthon as though he were no man that might orre him selfe sayth the doctors were men and discented amongest them selues As for the vsage of any celebration in the worlde what roume can it haue with these champians when Câ—luin confesseth in plaine termes that the celebration of the Sacrament hath bene contaminated euen in a maner sith the Apostles time and first planting of our religion and to reduce it to the puritie againe the man frames a newe one of his owne so farre from superstition that it hath no steppe of religion or true worship of god But well the worde of God is yet safe with them there a man may holde them No surely they are as â—alsie with the very scripture it selfe when so euer it maketh against them Brentius before named is not ashamed to saye that he pardoneth the author of the Machabeis of his error and ignorance And that thou may see the perfect image of a prowde heretike Caluin sayth thus as for the booke of the Machabeis I will not vouâ—hsalfe to make aunswere to it Mercifull God what faithfull
obscuro non ad propheticas voces non ad apostolicas literas nec ad euangelicas auctoritates sed ad semetipsos recurrunt Sed ideò erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt They fall into this folly which when they be hindered by any obscuritie to knowe the truth haue not recourse to the words of the Prophets nor to the writings of the Apostles nor to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues But therefore are they maisters of error because they haue not ben schollers of truth In these words Leo as great as you would haue him maketh the Scriptures not customes or traditioÌ„s the rule of truth But I will come to your demonstration which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine yet vnder correction of your demonstratiue Logike I may be bold to say it is not the proper way nor the way by which all doctrine may be tryed and so you breake 2. of those principal rules that Aristotle giueth for demonstration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by coÌ„ferring it with the word of God Againe the first author of euery heresie can not be named There was one heresie of them that were called Acephali because there was no head knowne of them It is harde to name the first authour of the Manichees whom the heretikes them selues call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes the Ophâ—tes the Caineanes the Sethoites the Adamianes the Melchezedâ—chianes the Apostolike the Hemerobaptistes and an hundred more heresies shall they be thought to haue their heresie from tradition of the Apostles if the first author of them can not be named yet I weene it will be hard for him to proue out of any authenticall writer that any before Tertullian either named or allowed prayer for the deade who was almost 2. hundreth yeares after the incarnation of Christ. 2 If they answere me that this vsage is crept into the church sith the Apostles time though the first author can not be knowen I will also prouide that there no shift shall serue them Therefore I aske them whether that man which first preached it was resisted by the rest of Gods Church which before his preaching beleued the contrarie or no That is it say this doctrine of praying for the deade when it first came into the church did any of the true pastors free from the same error barke like a good shepheard against the beginner of that which they count so great a corruption of trueth Or all the Church was corrupted with it on one daye say what you thinke likest in this case aunswere with any probability or reason if you can saye plainely was our doctrine euer preaâ—hed against or neuer if it neuer were preached against then it neuer beganne as any noueltie or newe doctrine For it coulde not be that the Church being free from that doctrine shoulde straight without contradiction allowe that which they liked not before Howe can any man arise in the common welth and bring the vtter decay of all the olde ordres which he findeth and erect vp a new deuise of his owne and neuer man speake a word against him but all in one moment allow and like the same and that without all recorde by memory or monument of any chaunge But this thinge is most farre from the Churches and Gods pastors diligeÌ„ce that neuer receiued false doctrine without open contradiction and plaine noting the party that first began it as we shal plucke our gentlemen by the slieue a none All those that haue any skill in the antiquitie will beare me recorde that the pastors did neuer holde their peace when any wolfe did but once open his mouth against the sheepe They can tell that she did neuer beare the preaching or practise of any false and erroneous doctrine for one day together then it must needes consequently followe that the doctrine of purgatory and oblation for the departed with still consent of all nations receiued in the Catholike Church had no beginning after the first institution of our faith and worship of God but hath ioyned from the first grounde of our Christian institution in Christes faith with that sacrifice and due honour of God which the Apostles by the suggestion of the holy Ghost planted in all nations with the same faith Thus I make my argument euery falsehood was preached against and withstanded when it is first entered but this doctrine of purgatory and praying for the deade being alwayes vsed was neuer controwled nor gainsaide in Gods Church therfore it is no falsehood nor euer had any later institution then the Apostles owne prescription 2 Supposing that this errour crept into the Church though the first author thereof can not be knowne he demaundeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be receiued I aunswere if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the vttermost it could not so easily haue preuayled And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that tyme opposed them selues against it although the history of the Church in that time whâ—n it began to be spreade is to briefe vnperfect that we should be able to name who they were that preached against it Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time it were hard to require and vnpossible to shew who preached against euery one of them at their first entrance yet they be damnable heresies In S. Augustines dayes of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth vnto vs who preached or writte against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome al the church as he confessed did hold that infants must receiue the holy communion or else they should be damned Who preached against this error except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretikes Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day If euery heresie had bene beaten down as fast as it sprang Antichrist should neuer haue set vp his throne in the temple of god If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error that they which refused to beleue the truth should be iustly condemned to beleue lyes the man of sinne and sonne of perdition had neuer aduauÌ„ced him selfe aboue all that is called God. 2. Thessal 2. And therefore M. Allen plucke not vs by the sleue but your self by the nose you are the heretikes that refuse to beleue the truth you are they that turne away your eares from truth to fables you are they that attend to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills forbidding to marry and abstayning from meates which God hath created to be receiued with thankes giuing There is the brande marke of Romish religion that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea shal not be able to wash out Must we finde out the authors of your heresies Nay iustifie
arme our selues against the like aduersaires of trueth with his minde in such other points of weight as in his dayes were not doubted of which yet might fall in question by the contentious wittes of many that can not quiet them selues in the holsome doctrine of Christes Church Amongest other things what this holy mans minde was concerning the vtility vsage of prayers and sacrifice for the deade and who were the institutors thereof thou shall now heare I will recite but a parte of his heauenly talke though the whole make wholy for our purpose Although sayth this holy doctour he that Christianly is hense in faith departed be hanged in the ayer and his body vnburied yet after thy prayers made to God sticke not to light lampe and taper at his sepulchre for these thinges be not onely acceptable to God but are rewarded For the oyle and waxe be to him as an holocaust or a sacrifice to be consumed by fire but that vnbloudy hoste is a propitiation and remission to the partie It may seeme by his wordes that when by occasion of punishment or otherwise any person was vnburied yet there was made some hearse or monumēt where his freinds lighted tapers as they doe at this daye and procured the holy Masse which Athanasius calleth the Vnbloudy hoste or sacrifice to be celebrated in his behalfe for so I take that when he sayth that a man being hong in the ayer may haue tapers and Masse at his sepulchre though some seeke an other meaninge which may well stande too and it skilleth not for our purpose for so much is plaine that in Athanasius his dayes the sacrifice was called and counted propitiatory euen for the deade But nowe a litle afterwarde in the same oration he instruteth vs for the first authors and institutors of this vsage in the vnbloudy sacrifice and in the burialls of Christian men All these holy thinges sayth he the Apostles of Christ those heauenly preachers and scholars of our Lorde the first orderers of our sacrifice charged to be obserued in the memories and anniuersaires of the departed c. he calleth the Apostles Curatores Sacrificiorum as you woulde saye men appointed to take ordre for all thinges perteyning to the solemne ministerie of the greate and high misterie As in the Psalme the spirituall gouernours are named Ordinatores testamenti Dei super sacrificia The prouisours of Gods testament touching the sacrifices The residue of his holy wordes thou may finde in Damascens oration of the departed where he recyteth both the Gregories of the Greeke church S. Denyse and S. Chrysostom too which writers doe rather serue my turne nowe then the Latines because they may put vs out of doubt for the vsage of the Greeke and other Churches which afterwarde by schisme fell together from the true worshippe of God into diuers errors That we may knowe those same countries vnder the gouernment of these excellent blessed men to haue obserued the same things which to their owne eternall miserie and decaye of their Church and countries they afterwarde contemned For their dissension and diuision both in this point others of no lesse importaunce hath procured Gods vengeaunce so much that nowe they haue almost no Church at all as we may haue right good cause to feare what will become of vs that followe their steppes in such pointes as in them haue duely deserued Gods greuous plaques 4 When you name Athanasius and thinke we shoulde be so sore afrayd of his name you haue good reason for you allege nothing else of him but his name I haue often tolde you Damascens report eyther for his corrupt iudgement or his cracked credit is nothing regarded of vs And euen the authoritie of Athanasius without the worde of God is the authoritie of god And as Augustine sayth of Cyprian we count not all his writing for canonicall Scriptures but we iudge them by the canonicall Scriptures The creede commonly called Athanasius creede although it be very godly and agreeable to the holy Scriptures yet by the iudgement of the best learned was complyed by some later writer then Athanasius As for the plague of the Greeke Church which M. Allen iudgeth to haue fallen vpon them for their departing from the Church of Rome he iudgeth both falsely and vnreasonably For what schisme was the Church of Africa first plaged by the Vandales that were Arians and afterward vtterly subuerted by the Saracens I doubt not but iustly for their sinnes but not for leauing the Romish Church 5 Amongest other for that Chrysostoms authority is exceding graue I will let you see his opinion for the institution of these beneficiall relieuinges of the departeds paine These be his wordes Let vs sieke out all meanes whereby we may best helpe our brethern departed let vs for their sakes bestowe the most present remedie that is to saye almes and oblation for thereby to them ensueth great commoditie gaine and profit for it was not rashly nor without greate cause prouided and to Gods Church by his disciples full of wisedome deliuered and decried that in the dreadfull misteries there shoulde be especiall prayers made by the priest for all those that sleepe in faith For it is a singular benefit to them These were Chrysostoms wordes whereby not onely the trueth of the cause and first authors of the practise be opened but that there is wounderfull benefite to the parties for whome prayers be so made in the holy sacrifice The which thing our forefathers well knewe when they were so earnest after their departure to haue a memory at the holy altar Now adayes heresie hath cankered euen the very deuotion of Catholikes who although they thinke it to be true that Gods Church teacheth herein yet the zele of procuring these meanes is nothing so great as the importaunce of the cause requireth But if they note well those carefull admonitions of all these blessed fathers they shall perceiue that euery time that Christes holy bloude is represented vnto God in the Masse for the departed they feele a present benefite and release of their paines they doe reioyse sayth holy Athanasius when the vnbloudy hoste is offered for them The old fathers to put a difference betwixt the sacrificing of Christes owne body vpon the crosse and the same vpon the altar in the Church doe lightly terme this way of offering the vnbloudy sacrifice and the thinge offered which is Christes owne blessed body they call likewise the host vnbloudy And Chrysostome neuer putting any doubt of the first authors of offering for the deade proueth that it is exceding beneficiall to the deceased because the Apostles full of Gods spirite and wisedome woulde else neuer with such care haue commaunded this holy action to be done for them A lasse a lasse fo◠our deare freindes departed that they must lacke this comforte But wo euerlasting to them that are the cause of so much miserie 5 Chrysostome can no more proue that
of Christes institution the Apostles tradition the vniuersall practise of the primitiue Church And what so euer great wordes beside you haue streyned your lunges to pronounce you haue sayd nothing for oblation or prayer for the deade to be the institution of Christ and all this geere but I may say the same for the drinking of milke and hony after baptisme for not fasting on Sonday ▪ or prayer on knees c by like vniuersalitie antiquitie consent authoritie 8 If the authors be past hope yet their followers shall take goodly occasion to forsake such wicked maisters and be ashamed of all their vndecent dealyng if they note and consider with me that the first preachers of this peruerse opinion were such that none of all their scholars durst euer for shame for the proofe of their assertion name their owne doctors And truely a man might well maruel why heretikes hauing some that did plainely professe their opinions had yet rather picke out some darke sentence of any one of our holy fathers whome they knowe to be directly against them then out of those same doctors of their owne which in expresse wordes make for them You shall not lightly heare an heretike that denieth praying to sainctes or holdeth with open breache of holy vowes alleage Iouinianus or Vigilantius Nor a Sacramentarie seeke for the authoritye of Berengarius or Wicleffe though they be of some antiquitie and without colour plainely doe mainteine the doctrine that so well lyketh them But they will trauell to writh with plaine iniurie to the author some sentence out of Augustine or Ambrose or some other that by their whole life and practise open them selues to the worlde to beleue the contrary and all this by some shewe of wordes for the bearing of their false assertions Marke it well I saye in heretikes that they can not for shame of them selues euer name any of the plaine auouchers of their owne opinions The cause is that the only vpholding of their opinions made them infamous to the whole posterity And if any honour grewe vnto them amongest the simple because they lacked not the wayes to procure the peoples consent with admiration of their eloquence or other plausible and populare qualities in their dayes yet trueth following time their same raised vpon so light causes easely decayd and the grounde of perpetuall infamie sattled in wise mens heartes by the wickednesse of their attemptes remained for a testimony to all posteritie of their shame and ignominie And this I speake not onely of the authors of our common sectes for they neuer atteined to any shade of famous report in their dayes because they coulde deceiue none but simple wemen but I meane by Arius him selfe and Pelagius with the like who in their owne time being of great esteeme amongest many whome they deceiued yet after their death more more they grew to shame and infamie so farre that who so euer were of their opinions afterward durste not yet for shame vse their name or authority for proofe of their owne doctrine See you not in our dayes howe freshe the name of Luther Caluin Bucer with that rable was amongest the rude people whome they had wonne either with speach or pleasure of licentious doctrine and loe nowe it decayeth in a maner or their bones be coulde The peoples sensies raueshed with the present pleasure of such as they hearde last like them so longe as they heare them afterwarde their memory remaineth onely to malediction Vidi impium superexaltatum eleuatum sicut Cedros Libani transiui ecce non est quaesiui non est inuentus locus eius I haue seene the wicked exalted and set vp as the Cedre trees of Libanus I passed by and loe out of hande he is no body I sought him and his abiding can not be founde VVho so euer shall seeke for our glorious preachers with in this C. yeare he shall finde them in such estimation then as their forefathers be nowe that is to say to be vnworthy the naming of their owne adherents if any of that secte liue and last so longe For let them neuer looke to come to the infamous fame of Arrius the best of all these secte maisters not worthy to be scholar to a hundreth of his followers Thus loe is the case of heretikes liked of fooles when they be alieue contemned of all men when they are deade 8 M. Allen marueileth and giueth a speciall note that we name not Iouinian Vigilantius Berengarius or VVickleffe to be the authors of our doctrine but rather hang vppon some sentence of Augustine or Ambrose and thinketh we are ashamed of the other In deede if we depended vpon any mens authoritie or that any man or men were the authors of our faith as it fareth with the popish faith we should be iniurious vnto them if we did not acknowledge our foūders as they doe some of theirs But seeing God him selfe is the father of that doctrine which we haue receiued by his holy word we neither boast vpon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Beringarius when they agree therewith We refuse not the truth that Tertullian Origin haue taught because they taught heresies also neither do we receiue the errors of Cypriā Augustin because they taught many points of true faith Onely the canonicall Scriptures are the rule by which we iudge of all men and their writings of all doctrine and the teachers therof It is a ridiculous thing that M. Allen like a cold Prophet taketh vpon him to tell what shall be thought of our preachers names within these hundred yeares But what so euer he prateth the memory of the righteous shall remayne for euer neither shall they be afrayde of any euill reporte their names are written in the booke of life which are ordeyned vnto eternall glory howso euer they be accounted of by the wicked of this worlde And yet there is no cause why we should not thinke that the names and writings of Luther Caluine and Bucer shal remayne in good account with Gods Church euen vntil they them selues shall come with Christ to iudge the worlde when in the meane time Eccius Pighius Cocleus and such other shall not be remembred but as obstinate withstanders of the truth and enemies of the Gospell 9 Now in the doctors of Gods Church it is cleane contrarie and no lesse worthy to be noted for our purpose for their honour and estimation rising vpon the sure vnfallible grounde of Gods trueth by yeares and time gathereth such force that not onely their memorie is in perpetuall benediction before God but their workes follow them in the mindes of their posteritie to their owne eternall praise and benefite of all their followers And which is much more to be woundered at they haue so passed enuy and malice of man that euen those which deadly hate them dare not but praise them And such as mislike their doctrine
and knowe of their owne conscience that they be directly against them yet dare not openly charge them with falshood as they doe vs their scholars but rather as I sayd seeke some sentence out of them to helpe their owne cause then with their plaine condemnation of falshood to refuse their authoritie S. Augustine busyed much with the Pelagians and charged by them in disputation that he defended the Manicheis doctrine concerning originall sinne for his defense and warraunt proueth vnto them that S. Ambrose taught the same doctrine that he did and yet they durst not be so bolde to call him a Manichie Dic huic Ambrosio si audes quae mihi tam petulanter obiectas Thou heretike sayeth he say the same by S. Ambrose if thou dare for shame which thou so sausely and wantonly obiectes to me Looke I pray you Ambrose was but newe deade when his onely name did feare the heretike wheÌ„ other aliue of as good learning was contemned of him and by wordes of reproche charged with the Manicheis secte who was a wicked man of horrible sectes not long before those dayes Pelagius out of doubte thought no better of Ambrose and Cyprian deade then he did of Augustine and Innocentius a liue because their doctrine was all one but yet the men departed were of more authority in Gods Church then the liuing of whose continuance to the ende men were vncertaine before the proofe thereof and their wordes being deade might easely be wrasted to some shew of their purpose when the authority of the liuing coulde not admit any such false dealinge them selues bearing witnesse of the meaning of their own words VVell then our doctors of Gods Church being all of holy estimation and blessed memory doe so dase the eyes euen of their owne aduersaries that being of the very same doctrine that we who by Gods grace be membres of the Catholike Church be of yet they are past the malice of those which like not their doing and doctrine For the heretikes well knowing them to be the authors or at the least especiall mainteiners of this our assertion of the valew of prayers and the holy sacrifice for the departed yet they dare not but clokedly reprehende them when they flowe against the poore Catholikes nowe aliue with wordes of infinite blasphemie and sclaunderous reproche Therefore I nowe will call vppon them with S. Augustines wordes Come on all the packe of you who so euer is the prowdest Protestant vpon the earth call if he dare S. Denyse S. Clement Athanas. Chrysostom Ambrose Gregory Bede we are not ashamed of their names as you be of your Maisters Call these Papistes for praying for their freindes call them Idolaters call them superstitious call them enimies of Christes passion say they be iniurious to his death by prouiding a newe sacrifice for sinne tell them they inuented Anniuersaries monthes mindes and yearly offeringes for their owne gayne call them masse mungers call them blinde gydes No you dare not for your eares you dare not disprayse our heauenly gydes you dare not once name your owne 9 M. Allen staâ—â—our wisedome there is no man will graunt you that the doctors of Gods Church Augustine Ambrose Chrysostom Basill c. are al togither yours because they haue allowed some one or two thinges that you doe and haue condemned the whole substance and principall groundes of your religion Nay rather count vpon the Popes to be the pillers of your Church doctors of your learning and fathers of your faith that haue bene within these seuen or eight hundreth yeares and see whether we might not with more honesty bragge of Iouinian and Vigilantius then you in your conscience can glory in a whole huÌ„dreth of them almost And whereas you bable of Augustine and the Pelagians if you were posed to answere vppon your conscience doe you defend Gods eternall predestination with Augustine rather then free will with Pelagius the only grace of God to be the whole cause of mans saluation as Augustine doth or the merites of workes as the Pelagians doe And whereas you allege that saying of Augustine dic huic Ambrosio c. to proue that Ambrose may not be gaine sayde what so euer he writ you shall heare what Augustine him selfe sayth of the same Ambrose when he was pressed with his authority by the Pelagians as though he defended freewill in his booke de gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. Beatus inquit Ambrosius Episcopus in cuius praecipuè libris Romana elucet fides qui scriptorum inter Latinos flos quidem enituit cuius fidem purissimum in Scripturis sensum ne inimicus quidem ausus est reprehendere Ecce qualibus quantis praedicat laudibus quamlibet sanctum doctum nequaquam tamen authoritati Scripturae canonicae comparandum Blessed Ambrose sayth the Pelagian that Bishop in whose bookes specially the Romane faith doth shine which glistered as a certeyne flower among the Latine writers whose fayth and most pure sense in the Scriptures no not his enemy durst reprehend c. Behold sayth Augustine with what howe great prayses he extolleth him which though he be neuer so holy and well learned yet is he not to be compared with the authoritie of the canonicall Scriptures Loe here the authoritie of Ambrose or any man And by the way note here the hereticall bragge of the Romane faith Finally where you stand forth like a peeuish quarrell picker to dare vs with S. Augustines wordes we may well say vnto you as to such a busy body good fellow thou makest more a doe then thou needest here is no man disposed to striue with Clemens Dionysius Athanasius Chrysostome nor Augustine if they haue spoken any thing that helpeth the matter bring it forth where due triall may be had in the meane time bragge of them as much as thou wilt thou shalt neuer be able to proue that of 20. errors which thou defendest they did hold one If they haue spoken otherwise then truth in any matter they must be told of it as well as other men But thou must not thinke that for one error common with them thou must hold an 100. coÌ„trary to them Thou doest them wrong to make them thy partakers as thou shalt well know when the triall commeth therefore quiet thy selfe and talke of thyne owne mates as for those men thou hast litle to doe with them nor they with thee but for sclaundering of them to be altogither on thy side 10 Such force hath the trueth and such feare there is in falshood and yet these doctors must needes be in a thousand times worse case then we be if the doctrine of purgatory and prayers be not true VVe may be saued or at least reasonably excused by following they in leading vs in falshood can haue no excuse of their impietie But howe glad may all we Catholikes be in our heartes that haue the full consent of all them in the proofe of our beleue out of
whose workes the aduersaries woulde be glad of one likely sentence And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in Gods Church that their owne aduersaries raling at vs aliue yet dare not but with great feare once blemish their names departed Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their owne miscredit So beutifull is the light of trueth And on the other side howe miserable is their carefull case that followe and defende that doctrine the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name whome all good men with open mouth boldely doe reprehend and their owne scholars dare not defende Such a glorious maiesty this doctrine of theires beareth that pricketh vp with pryde those that be alyue and blotteth out of honest memorie her doctors that be deade 10 Nay M. Allen though those doctors build some hay or stuble vpon the onely foundation Christ their case is ten thousand times better then yours which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble vpon no foundation at all except it be the sande and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our fayth Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name and woe may be to such Catholikes as can finde nothing but hay and stuble where such store of precious matter is and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency And happy be those which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth but seeking to the onely fountayne of heauenly truth conteyned in the holy scriptures haue certeyne comfort of saluation while they are aliue and sure possession of felicitie with Christ as soone as they are dead yea which dye not at all because they beleue in Christ which is life nor enter into iudgement but passe from death of this body which is temporall vnto life of body and soule which is eternall The first Author of that secte vvhich denieth prayers for the departed is noted his good condicions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kinde of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that secte And that this heresy is euer ioyned as a fit companion to other horrible sectes CAP. XIIII 1 BVt yet because they haue diffamed our practise in praying and offering for the deade by referring it to a later origine then the Apostolike authority and tradition seeing we haue fathered our vsage vpon such as the aduersaries dare not blame we will helpe them to seeke out the fathers of their faithles perswasion lest by the feare and bashfullnesse of their owne scholars they be vnkindly forgotten Mary to finde out these obscure loyterers it will be somewhat painefull because as theeues doe they kepe by wayes and lightly treade not in honest mens pathes For the finding out of recordes for the testimony of our trueth we kepte the day light the high waye of Gods Church All the knowen notable personages in the holy Citye of God offered them selues both to witnesse and proue with vs VVe droue this trueth from our dayes through the middest of that holy communitie which S. Augustine calleth the Citye of God and our aduersaries will not saye otherwise but they were the liuely membres of that happy and heauenly fellowship VVe brought the practise of it to the holy Apostles by plaine accompte we went with the trueth of our cause to the lawe of Moyses from thense by like light to the lawe of nature But nowe for the other sorte we must leaue the cytie of God and the fellowship of these noble personages of doctors Apostles Prophets and Patriarches and seeke on the lifte hande in the other citye which is of Augustine named the citye or common welth as a man might call it of the deuill in which body all practise of mischiefe and origin of error ishuing from that vnhappy heade to the corrupt and deadly limmes thereof is to be founde VVe shall heare of the aduersary perswasion then in the company of Anabaptistes of Arrians of Saduceis of Epicures where so euer the weedes of the common enemies corrupte seede groweth there shall we find amongest breares and brembles this choking weede with all For as the true preachers the Apostles of Christ Iesu did sowe in the beginning of the Christian church which was the springe of the worde of lyfe and trueth amongest other heauenly seedes of true doctrine that profitable practise for the reliefe of such as were hense departed in the sleepe of peace with the decent ordre which euer fithens the Catholicke Church hath obediently followed euen so Inimicus homo superseminauit zizania the common enemy came afterwarde and ouersewe darnell and cockle either for the vtter choking or else for the especiall let of that good seede which the Maister of this fielde by his houshold seruauntes had plentifully sowen before This common aduersarie as our maister him selfe expoundeth it is the Deuill who as he in all other thinges beneficiall to mankinde is a great staye so Christian mens commoditie in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and deuilish deuise whereby he prouoketh many vnder the shewe of Gods word or bare name therof for that is the lambes cote which this wyely wolfe boroweth to maske in to be vnkind vnnaturall and with out all godly affection towards their departed frendes The which contrary corrupt seede of false doctrine we right well know came of the sayd aduersary because it was long after ouersowen learning further of Tertullian Id verum esse quodcunque primum id adulterinum quod posterius That to be true that was first taught and that to be false and forged which came latter CAP. XIIII 1 WHen the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So did the Valentinians although their heresie were newe when they were confuted by the Scriptures shrowed them selues vnder the name of traditions as we haue shewed before out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therfore it is but vayne bragging that you promise to seeke out any other fathers of our perswasion then the Apostles of Christ by whose holy writings we neuer refuse to be iudged what if any heretike haue affirmed some thing that is true is truth worse in an heretikes mouth The deuills them selues confessed christ Their confession was true their testimony was refused So if any heretike haue confessed the truth we may receiue the truth and yet reiect his testimony For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denyed by the deuill it is all one The high way that you prate of is a bye way for the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth with the guidance of Gods spirite And yet that way which you haue taken hath so many hills and holes woods and thickets that you haue rather flyen ouer it in a dreame and imagination
may by the example of Christ aunswere one question with an other why was it first reueiled to the Arians in councell holden against Christ that the article of his descent into hell was meete to be added to the creede and confession of faith which was not reueiled to so many godly meÌ„ as set forth the Symbole nor to the holy Nicene Councell Aunswere me if you can or any Robin good fellowe of your sect â–ª learned or vnlearned is it any preiudice to the trueth of that article or to the right that it hath to be placed in the creede that it was first added by the Arrians why was the trueth reueiled to heretikes concerning rebaptisation rather then to Cyprian and so many catholicke byshoppes why was it reueiled to the Pelagians that infantes might be saued without the participation of the sacrament of Christes body and bloude rather then vnto S. Augustine Innocentius byshoppe of Rome and as Augustine sayeth all the catholicke fathers of that time which thought it was as necessary for them to receiue the communion as to be baptised If heretikes shoulde not affirme somethinge that were true they shoulde neuer deceiue any man And sometime Satan affirmeth the trueth not because he will haue it beleeued but rather that proceding out of his lying mouth it might the sooner be discredited And therefore sometymes Arrians Pelagians Anabaptistes and such like by the subtilty of Satan haue affirmed somethinge that is true either to winne credit to their manifolde lyes or else to drowen the credit of that trueth among so many errors 7 Nay I will pose you further is not your preaching the very ready waye to all such extreeme blasphemies as they boldely mainteine did euer man fall from the Catholicke Church to those further heresies then you yet openly professe but he tooke yours by the waye as a plaine passage to extreme infidelitie yea your opinions doe so well stande with the other that they neede not afterwarde to refuse any one pointe of all your doctrine to mainteine their owne There is no article of Catholicke doctrine but it is as much hated of them as of your selues Helpe your selues here my maisters or else all the worlde will take you to be in your heartes of the same sectes wherevnto your faith is alwayes so dearely ioyned Put your heades together and tell vs whie your doctrine is so deare to the AriaÌ„s all wicked men so hated of the holy fathers of Christes Church If you frame not your aunswere well you liese your credites your scholars and your honesties VVell thus haue I pointed out your author his name was Aërius you must be called Aërians you maye kepe the name of Protestaunts or Euangelistes beside For a holy newe calling is lightly ioyned to such men VVhereby though some simple be deceyued yet wâ—se men be warned Or if the olde authors of this secte be not so glorious as these new reuiuers if they list and like so they may call them selues Lutherans or Caluinistes or what they will but Catholickes Although Martyn Luther graunted purgatory and prayers with this error that such as were there might yet by their diuers deseruinges winne or loose life euerlasting as men of doubtefull state as they were before in the worlde plaine against our Sauiours admonition and carefull warning veniet nox quando iam nullus operari potest VVorke whiele the day lasteth for the night shall come wheÌ„ no man can labour But I neede not to stande vpon this point which of neither parte is much regarded Neither will I spende any more time in getting them an author of their secte seeing they haue choise of diuers Let them goe out of the Citye of God from amongest the holy company and turne on the lifte hande and looke amongest the outcastes of all agies and they shall haue freindes and fellowes enowe 7 That you saye of our preaching to be the waye to so many heresies might haue bene sayed of the Gentiles and Iewes to the whole Church of Christians The Gentiles continued constant so did the Iewes without schisme in their errors when the professors of Christianity were rent and torne into an hundreth sectes and heresies There were no heretikes but they hated Iewes and Gentiles as much as the true Christians was therefore the religion of the Iewes and Gentiles better then the religion of the Christians Yea there neuer was since Christ any heresie or heretike but they agreed in many more thinges with the Christians then with the Gentiles and Iewes was therefore the Christian religion false or the Paganes and Iewes superstition true It is therefore no dâ—sâ—redit of our doctrine that Arrians or Anabaptistes of our time either haue any thing of yours or prayse any thing of ours Neither our credit schollers nor honestie are in daunger for their errors which they learned not of vs neither are your wit learning or heresie the greater for vttering this foolish conceipte which no more toucheth vs or defendeth you then it carpeth the religion of Christ and mainteineth the Idolatrie of the heathen The worlde seeth what vaine reasons you leane vnto being destitute of the worde of god An heretike helde this opinion therefore it is false The deuill beleueth there is one God therefore shall not Christian men beleue so why woulde God reueile any trueth to heretikes why did the Pharizees which otherwise were heretikes defende the resurrection of the deade This vaine frothe of wordes and smoke of foolish and vnlearned questions will euen fall downe and vanish awaye of it selfe though it be not blowen away by vs The latter end of this chapter hath one croppe of his olde custome to charge Luther with defending of Purgatory which either was while he remained in ignorance or else it is but a fained fable as many other of him and others are deuised by the Papists who as they erre from the trueth of God so they delight in sclaundering of good men but they shall not preuaile their madnes is made knowen to all men That their falsehood is condemned and the Catholicke trueth approued by the authority of holy Councells Their pride in contemning and the Catholickes humilitie in obedient receyuing the same And a sleight vvhereby the heretikes deceiue the people is detected CAP. XV. 1 ANd for our parte it is sufficient good reader that we knowe the first founder thereof and that we be nowe right well assured that he in his time and his scholars in theirs haue bene noted called and condemned for heretikes in this as in other fonde peruerse opinions beside not onely by the singular iudgements of diuers learned men but by the common sense and consent of the worlde and by auncient Councells both generall and particular as we maye reade in the Councells of Carthage the iiij of Bracharense and Vase the Decrees of which by occasion we rehearsed once before They are both auncient and of greate authority and honored with the presence of
not nowe that they renounce all that helpe of Councells Doctors which with vauntes they clamed before whiles they impudently make a diuision or contrarietie betwixt them and the holy scripture And we take it at their hand as an open acknowledging of their lacke there where they pretended greatest store The which thinge if they likewise would confesse openly in pulpit and in plaine words as they meane nothing lesse when they shew the people that they were but men that they might erre that they followed the custome of the common people in their time that they are not to be receiued but where they agree with scripture that them selues must try whether they be consonant to the word of God or no if they would I say without such cloked wordes bouldly pronounce as Luther their maister did that they cared not for a hundreth Augustines or Hieroms that they esteemed not the consent of all nations that they would be tryed by the iudgement of no coūcell that they would purposely runne contrary to the Councells decree in all causes that they would take that for thonely truth which is conteined in the holy Scriptures and that for Scripture which them selues thought good and last of all that for the true meaning which agreed best to the vpholding of error and heresie then would the people leaue these lewde masters on the plaine field which now they keepe with them one while by the praises of the doctors and antiquitie and somewhiles by thabasing of them againe and deceitfull referring all to the onely Scriptures to which they say credit may safely be giuen where the doctors without daunger can not be further followed then as they be not found to disagree with Gods word So that the cause seemeth now to be driuen to this ishue in the eyes of thignorant whether men should rather beleue the Scipture or the doctors the word of God that can not be false or the fathers that were but men and therfore might erre deceiue and be deceiued 3 But that you loue to spende many wordes about a thinge of naught you might haue spoken as much in three wordes as you haue done in three leaues But that I maye breefely cut of your lauesh lippe labor whereas you vse in deede as greate impudencie as you charge vs withall in wordes first you would make our chalenge contrary to it self as though one while we boast of the doctors and then being driuen from them we flie to the Scriptures They that dayly heare our preaching with any diligence peruse our writing can beare vs witnes that you doe falsely shamefully belie vs For we stand for authoritie onely to the iudgement of the holy Scriptures and whatsoeuer we say of fathers councells or the most auncient primitiue Church it is either for testimony of our truth or for conuiction of your lying For it is you M. Allen the Papists that boast of all antiquitie all fathers all doctors all councells all Churches to be all togither on your side among whom as we will not deny but you haue some Patrones of some of your errors so will we affirme that you haue more enemies in the greatest of your heresies And therefore this ishue is rightly ioyned and without any Ieofayle vpon this point that the Scripture is to be credited rather then the doctors the word of God rather then the writings of men 4 But this is not the state of our controuersie nor of any question betwixt the Catholikes and them And that they knowe full well though they craftely cloke it with chaunge of wordes for we acknowledge most gladly that if any Doctor Prophet Apostle or Angell if it were possible preach vnto vs any thing against the word and truth of Gods Scripture that he is accursed of God and to be reiected of men But here is the stand and the point of all our doubtes in generall note it well Maister Protestaunt whether the auncient fathers some of them being in Christes time diuers of them scholars to his Apostles many within one hundreth or two of yeares afterward most of them more thē a thousand yeares since I speake of such as we haue named in our cause all wonderfully learned as well in the knowledge of the secretes of Gods mysteries as the tongues all mercifully endued with great giftes and graces all exceeding studious in the Scriptures all hauing the same testament and written worde of God that we now haue all vsing meruelous diligence in the conference of diuers places for the true meaning and vnderstanding of the same all hauing feruent zeale in teaching the Christian people all at times appoynted resorting togither from diuers partes of the world to some one general search in which by humble conference togither and prayer they doubted not to obteyne the spirite of truth as it was by our Maister promised the question is now then I say whether those holy men thus holpen by nature diligence time and grace be not more like to vnderstand the Scripture then these men which either lacke all these helpes or most of them Secondly it followeth thereupon whether we should rather giue credit to them affirming purgatory and prayers for the deade to be not onely consonant but plainely proued by the Scriptures or else to our new aduersaries auouching these thinges to be against the Scripture VVhereby you see we must not nowe reason whether we ought to beleue the doctors or the Scriptures better but whether for the true sense we must not beleue the olde fathers better then these newe fooles 4 In wordes you graunt our ishue because you knowe that all the cuntry of christians would otherwise go against you but in deede you deny it For the ishue which you would ioyne vpon is both captious and doubtfull Captious because it disioyneth those thinges which are not to be separated namely the Scripture and the true meaning thereof Doubtfull because it standeth vpon a likelyhoode and not vpon a certeinty For thus you ioyne whether the olde doctors be more like to vnderstand the Scriptures then the Protestants I haue aunswered before we wil make no comparison with them Neither will we challenge the likelyhood to vs neither will we leaue it to them for whether so euer we doe we shall be neuer the more certeine of the truth But this will we set downe as a most certeine principle that no man can vnderstand the Scriptures but by the same spirite by which they were written What then shall we arrogate the spirite as proper to vs and deny it to them God forbid They had their measure of Gods spirite we humbly thanke his maiestie so haue we How then is the spirite of God contrary to it selfe because they and we agree not in all thinges God forbid Cyprian and Cornelius were both endued with Gods spirite and both Martyres yet they agreed not both in one interpretation nor iudgement of the scripture what then there remaineth but this second
fitly stande with the happy case of all those that dye in the fauour of God and assurance of their saluation though they abide sharpe but sweete paine of fatherly discipline for their better qualifying to the ioyes prepared for them and all other the elect So that nowe the mouing of these doubtes hath so litle aduantaged our aduersaries that it hath somewhat geuen occasion of further declaration of our matter then otherwise perchaunce we shoulde haue had 6 The last obiection that you list to trouble your head with all is that voyce which was heard from heauen Apoc. 14. of the blessed state of them that dye in the Lord in the meaning of which you wrest and wrigle like a snake that is smitten on the head but you can not auoyd the strife First you vnderstand it onely of Martyres that dye in the Lord and call Augustine to witnesse thereof As I will not deny but Martyrs are specially comforted by that voyce so I wil affirme that it is to the common comfort and rewarde of all the faythfull in Christ who as they liue in Christ so they dye in christ And witnesse hereof I will not take of flesh and blood but of the holy Ghost Rom 14. None of vs liueth vnto him selfe neither doth any dye vnto him selfe for whether we liue we liue vnto the Lorde and whether we dye we dye vnto the Lorde And the Apostle 1. Cor. 15. nameth the faithfull that are a sleepe in Christ and 1. Thes. 4. them that are deade in christ Wherefore in despite of the deuill and the Pope this blessing apperteyneth to all them that dye in the Lord Iesus Christ as true members of his body and not to them onely that shedde their bloud for christ True it is that all they that would liue godly in Christ Iesus suffer persecution but not all to the death else who are those innumerable Saincts that no man can number of all nations and tongues which S. Iohn sawe Apoc. 7. who are likewise in happy and blessed rest without all maner lacke or hurt hunger thirst or heate but when you are weary of that interpretation you wring out an other that they in purgatory also be happy because they be sure of saluation at last and the rest from labours is either the rest from sinne or else no more but ioy of conscience witnesse of this exposition is the canon of the Masse The witnesse the matter and he that vseth it are all of like credit But if I might pose your conscience M. Allen can you call that a happy rest which is ioyned with such torment misery as you beare men in hand is in purgatory Haue you forgotten that you sayd yere while of Tabitha and Lazarus that it was a benefite for them to be deliuered out of purgatory into this life and is it now a blessing to be dispatched out of this life into purgatory And as for that which you allege out of the canon of your masse declareth that your masse was patched togither of many peeces of diuers colours For you pray for the rest of them whome you confesse to be at rest in Christ you wish easement for them whom you affirme to sleepe in peace As though in Christ were not perfect rest as though in peace there were torment and this exposition you your selfe are weary of also and turne agayne to your former and then backe againe to the latter An vnconstaâ—t man is vncerteyne in all his wayes yet all were litle worth if this place helped not to proue purgatory also For the payne of purgatory is a sweete payne a happy rest a fatherly discipline And yet as Augustine sayth it is but for small faultes or as you say for great faultes that by penance are made small And is God such a mercifull father to punish small faultes so extremely in his children whom he pardoneth of all their great and heynous sinnes O blasphemous helhoundes An aunsvvere to their negatiue argument vvith the Conclusion of the booke CAP. XVII 1 BVt yet one common engine they haue as well for the impugnation of the trueth in this point as for the sore shaking of the weake walles of the simples faith allmost in all their fight that they kepe against the Catholikes VVhich though it be not stronge yet it is a marueillous fit reasoning for so fonde a faith For if thou caste an earnest eye vpon their whole doctrine thou shalt finde that it principally and in a maner wholy consistithe in taking awaye or wasting an other faith that it founde before so that the preachers thereof must euer be destroyers pluckers downe and rooters vp of the trueth grounded before VVill you see then what a Protestants faith and doctrine is deny onely and make a negation of some one article of our belefe and that is a forme of his faith which is lightely negatiue There is no free will there is no workes needefull to saluation there is no Church knowen there is no chiefe gouernour therof there be not seuen sacraments they doe not conferre gratiam geue grace Baptisme is not necessary to saluation Christ is not present on the aultar there is no sacrifice there is no priesthood there is no aultar there is no profit in prayers to sainctes or for the deade there is no purgatory Christ went not downe to hell there is no limbus finally if you liste goe forwarde in your negatiue faith there is no hell there is no heauen there is no god Doe you not see here a trimme faith and a substantiall looke in Caluins Institutions and you shall finde the whole frame of this wasting faith There is nothing in that blasphemous booke nor in their Apologies but a gathered bodie of this no faith For so it must needes be that teacheth no trueth but plucketh vp that trueth which before was planted Is it not a prety doctrine that Caluine makes of the sacraments when he telleth not the force of any of them all but onely standeth like a fearce monstruous swhine rooting vp our fathers faith therein CAP. XVII 1 IT vexeth you at the very hart that we require the authority of the holy Scriptures to confirme your doctrine hauing a playne commaundement out of the word of God that if any man teach otherwise then the word of God alloweth he is to be accursed And therfore you runne to a childish kinde of Sophistry to say that our argument is negatiue A perlous point that almost all the Papistes thinke them selues more then Chrisippus or Aristoteles when they tell vs that our argument is ab auctoritate negatiuè Alacke poore logicke All knowledge that christian men haue of heauenly thinges is grounded vpon the authority of Gods word therefore as it is no good logicke to conclude negatiuely of one place or booke of Scripture this is not conteined in it therefore it is not true so of the whole doctrine of God wherein all truth necessary to saluation is
conteyned the argument is most inuincible that concludeth negatiuely thus All true doctrine is taught in the Scripture purgatory is not taught in the Scripture therefore purgatory is no true doctrine And this conclusion M. Allen him selfe made of mans authoritie cap. 13. purgatory and prayers for the dead were not preached against at their first entry ergo they are true But of all mens authoritie it is false wheras he sayth we are ouerthrowers destroyers we confesse we are so of all false doctrine and heresie For the word of God is appoynted not only to teach truth but also to ouerthrow error not onely to build faith but to destroy falshood But it is a proper cōceit wherin he pleaseth him self as other of his sect do to tel vs that all our faith standeth vpon negatiues I could frame the Papists as holsome a creede all vpō affirmatiues if they wil receiue it This is more then boyish babling All trueth is to be affirmed all falshood to be denyed Therefore it is not to be loked what is affirmatiue and what negatiue but what is true or false that is affirmed or denyed But to runne through the articles of that creede which he hath framed for vs we truely beleue that man after his fall hath not free will no not aptnes of will to thinke any thing that is good 2. Cor. 3. we beleue truely that a man is not iustified by workes but by faith onely Rom. 3. And yet we beleue that good workes are necessary to be in euery man that is iustified Iac. 2. we beleue that the Church is not alwayes knowne to the wicked vpon earth neither the vniuersall Church seene at all of men because it is in heauen Gal. 4. we beleue that the catholicke Church hath no chiefe gouerner vppon earth but Christ vnto whom all power is giuen in heauen earth Matth. 28. we beleue there are but 2. Sacraments of the new testament baptisme and the Lordes supper instituted by Christ 1. Cor. 10. we beleue that they geue not grace of the worke wrought but after the faith of the receiuer and according to the election of God. 1. Cor. 10. Baptisme is necessary for all Christians to receiue that are not by necessitie excluded from it 1. Pet. 3. Christ is present at his Supper but not after a grosse and caparnaiticall maner but as he was present in Manna to the fathers 1. Cor. 10. There is no sacrifice propitiatory for our sinnes but onely the sacrifice of Christes death once offered for all Heb. 10. There is no priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatory but only the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedech Heb. 7. The spirituall priesthood is common to all Christian men and women 1. Pet. 1. we haue an altar of which it is not lawfull for them to eate which serue the tabernacle and other beside we haue none Heb. 13. we call not vpon Sainctes because we beleue not in them for how shoulde we call vpon them in whome we beleue not Rom. 10. There is no prayer for the deade nor purgatory after this life because they that liue vnto Christ dye vnto him and being dissolued are with him Ioan. 17. Christ descended into hell to redeeme vs out of hell by suffering the wrath of God for our sinnes Heb. 5. There is no Lymbus for the fathers were at rest with God where they are now whether we call the place Abrahams bosome or paradise or heauen Luke 16. and 23. 2. Cor. 12. The rest which you adde maye be the beginning of the Popish creede which you maye as you list continue negatiuely or affirmatiuely after this maner God a lone knoweth not the heartes of all men God onely is not to be worshipped and serued for Sainctes haue both the one and the other God onely is not true for the Pope can not erre Christ is not our onely mediator and aduocate for Marie and the Sainctes are also Christes death is not a sufficient redemption for vs for we must satisfie for our selues Christes death hath not taken away both our sinnes and the punishment of them but the Popes padon maye Christ is not onely our high priest according to the order of Melchizedech for euery hedge priest is of the same order Christ hath not made them that are sanctified perfect by a sacrifice once offered for all For y greatest part is lefte to the masse Our sinnes are not freely forgeuen vs by Christ for we must satisfie for them A man is not iustified by fayth without the workes of the lawe for euery man must merite for him selfe The scriptures are not sufficient to teach vs all trueth but we must haue vnwritten verities The worde of God is not of soueraine authoritie for the decrees of the Pope and generall councells be equall with it This is the Papistes creede both in the affirmatiue and in the negatiue But in that you exhort the Papistes to reade Caluins institution and there to see whether he teacheth any truth therein I woulde to God that all Papistes in Englande woulde followe your counsell pray vnfaynedly that God would open there eyes that they may see his trueth if it be taught in that booke 2 This negatiue faith hath no grounde nor confidence of thinges to be hoped for nor any certaintie of such thinges as doe not yet appeare but it is an euident ouerthrowe of all our hope and a very canker of the expectation of thinges to come This faith therefore of these pluckers downe must needes vse a conuenient instrument to destroye and not to builde to plucke vp and not to plante to improue and not to make proofe But what way is that mary by way of negatiue proofe they confirme their negatiue and no faith Purgatory say they nor prayers for the deade be not so much as once named in all the scripture ergo there is neither of them to be beleued VVhich forme of argument serued the Arians against the consubstātiall vnitie of God the father his sonne our Sauiour It helped the Anabaptistes against the baptisme of infantes it was profitable to Heluidius against the perpetuall virginitie of Gods mother and it helpeth all pluckers downe but it neuer serueth a buylder The vanity whereof is so well knowen that I will not stande to talke thereof namely seeing it hath no place in our cause for which we haue brought diuers scriptures all construed by most learned fathers for that sense and some so euident that they droue our aduersaries to the open deniall of the holy canonicall scripture 2 What grounde or confidence of thinges not seene and yet hoped for our fayth hath it is not for infidells to iudge no more then for blinde men to iudge of collours And as for our negatiue argument it is stronger then your affirmatiue error can abide there of groweth the spight But when as you saye we frame our argument of the name of purgatory onely or prayers for