verie likelie Secondlie that you ment not to defend M. Chalfonts opinion will hardlie be beleeued except you can perswade the audieÌ„ce that you ment one thing and did an other Thirdlie that you gaue vp your sermon to M. Wisedome in wriring M. Wisedome can tel that it is not true Hee had nothing of you but a few scribled disordered notes The last is cunninger that I answered not the whole but some part of your sermon That which escaped without answere was so small a part that the rest might well haue bene called the whole if you had not bene disposed to abuse the simplicitie of your reader That the matter then in controversie was staied before in Sarum by the Bishop was true but in such sort that if you had not bene more busie then your commission it might haue stand more with your credite to haue let Chippenham alone For you were there injoined by the Bish two Iustices of the peace to confesse that M. Connam his opinion who was then your adversary was pia vera senteÌ„tia Whether you came to make peace amongst your brethren and not to warre against M. Wisedome I referre it to the audience peace-makers vse not to take parts Your peace did so little please M. Wisdome for as much as you honor him that beeing denied the pulpit at Chippenham by Chalfont contrarie to the order he was driuen to take Cosham church not far distant to defend the truth against you and your mate which thing he performed with great meekenesse and humilitie after his maner to the comforte of all that heard him the aedifying of them that were desirous to know the trueth These things if I were disposed to go to Tennis with you would sound more lie like then all the lies you haue flung at me But you are a Doctor and that were vn-manerlie Yet saving your worship you keepe not so good a watche through this worke as it becums such a lie-catcher Wherefore to conclude where you say that I accuse you of wit eloquence onelie denie the action and I will let fall my suâ—e But as for your promise I will neuer let goe my holde because I hope you will proue a man of your word HVME his 2. Sect. Nowe to come to the matter I see no cause why you should thinke better of Augnstine and Ierome then of Caluin and Beza for they were all but men and they which now are olde were sometimes new They had no better warrant of Gods spirit then these and errors in those dayes were so thicke sowen that there grewe darnell in the best fieldes euen of them whome now we most admire I speake not this to descredit the Fathers but to proue that they were no Gods They were no dout his good instruments to maintaine his truth against his enemies but they wer but meÌ„ you can not denie but the best of them had his steynes This no doubt was the forepurposed worke of gods infinite wisdom that seeing these infirmities our fond age might not set their writings in the place of his eternall word wherof one iote shal not passe though heauen and earth perish HILL his reply TWo argumentes you make against Augustine and Ierome The one is they had errors and therfore their interpretation not to be admitted The other is the time wherein they liued was corrupt and for that cause they are not to be alledged in a controuersy of Diuinitie The same argument I make against all new writers All new writers haue errors and they liue in a most corrupt time wherein as Christ saith shall bee many fals prophets many fals Christs to deceiue the very elect if it were posible Math. 24. 24. Therfore because men are vaine the time corrupt wee must beleue no man You argue ab accidente ad subiectuÌ„ For Augustine Ierome to erre it is an accident but the substance of all Fathers is to beget men in the word of truth 1. Cor. 4. 15. And for this cause Augustine himselfe willeth vs not to beleeue him vnlesse hee bring the word of God Truly sayth Augustine I do desire not onlie a godlie reader but a free corrector in all my writings especially in those things where there is great doubt but as I will not haue him to be giuen vnto mee so I will not haue him to be giuen to himself let him not loue mee more then the Catholike faith As I say to him beleue not my sayings as Canonical scriptures but beleue stedfastly wheÌ„ thou hast found that which thou beleuedst not but beleue not firmly that which thou hast not seene out of Gods worde So I say to him do not correct my writings by thine owne opinion or of contention but by the word of God by the reason therof vncontrouleable And against Cresconius the Grammarian hee thus writeth lib. 2. cap. 32. I am not moued with the authority of this Epistle but I consider theÌ„ out of the Canonical books and if they agree with the worde of God I receiue them with prayse if they disagre I refuse them with peace The like he hath Epist 3. Epist 112. And Ierome ad Theoph. is of the same iudgment I know that I esteeme otherwise the Apostles and otherwise other interpreters these men speak truth alwayes these men in some things do erre somtime These Fathers themselues confes themselues to be but meÌ„ wil vs to beleeue theÌ„ no farther theÌ„ they agree with Gods word Therfore they building vpoÌ„ Christ aswell as your newe ought to be beleeued rather in this point then they For what they wrote in this controuersy the same did all other godly Interpreters both Greek and Latin hauing a good warrant from Gods word But those of your side write contrary to Gods word to the auncient Fathers yea and contrarie to the new Fathers namly Luther Selueccer Chytraeus Pomeran Aepinus Lucas Lossius Alesius Aretius Peter Martyr M. Fox and M. Nowel Therefore because Augustine and Ierome agree both with the old and new writers especially with the worde of God I like better of them teaching the affirmatiue then of any other labouring to proue the negatiue To end therefore you must note this that all sayings of the Fathers either they are demonstratiue out of the scriptures then they are the voyce of God or else probable and these are the voyce of man or else false and then they are the voice of the Serpent HVME his reioynder to the 2. sect YOu make my argâ—ments as pleaseth you If wee had no better then you would affoorde vs wee were vnworthie of credite and worthie of your reproches First you alter the conclusion I neuer thoght said or wrote that their interpretations are not to bee admitted nor their sayings alledged in a controversie of Divinity Neither write I against theÌ„ except
people that hee had taught false doctrine and promised that if they would come that day seuen night they should heare him confuted by a learned man That day seuen-night commes The people flockes to the Church in great multituds exspecting some famous man with some new matter At length in came this M. Chalfont himself Hee climbes into the pulpit and pyles vp a heap of books as high as his head Then after a psalme and a formall prayer hee beginnes like an Oratour at his own person and his adversaries that he was M. Wisedomes senior that he was a Bachelor when M. Wisedome was a Scholler and a Maister of Arte. before he was a Bachelour That hee had read more and knew more then he That he had learned arithmetick and could reckon the articles of the creed better then hee That there was 12. of them made by the 12. Apostles That his memorie serued him to remember which Apostle made which article That M. Wisedome did reckon them wrong and made but 11. of them That al learned Fathers were on his conspiracie That M. Wisedome did falsefie Calvine and other learned writers That Christ might bee the day when he suâ—â—ered as well both in Paradice and Hell as M. Wisedome was that morning at Gritleton that is the place where he dwelleth then there vnder the pulpit That he did contradict the convocation and therefore had depriued himselfe of the Ministrie ipso facto And so was no more Parson of Gâ—â—tleton then hee was Bishop of London He lookes downe manie times on M. Wisdome where he sat vnder the pulpite amazed at his impudencie like a meeke sheep as hee is indeede and calles him by his name This saieth Augustine this saieth Ierome this saieth Cyprian and you say that Where was your learning Where was your reading Where was your simplicitie and plain dealing which you make show of And turning to the people he warned them to be ware of false Prophets that going in sheepes clothing were inwardlie rauening wolues meaning M. Wisedome because of his plainnesse and simplicitie This exclamation for sermon I cannot call it being ended the people departed some saying this and some saying that and all sauing such as loue or malice did carrie more then truth or matter condemning Chalfonts impudencie That day seuen-night the people meets againe hoping to heare M. Wisdome reply for that was his day by the Bishops order But M. Hil beeing then at a towne called Leycocke within 2. myles of this Chippenhame by accident or of set purpose I know not came thither that morning and tooke the place The same man not manie yeares before had dipped in the same controuersy almost after the same manner at Sarum against one M. Connam a man both learned and Chaplane to my L. of Pembroke But to let that passe at this sermon 28. Feb. Anno 1589. I was my selfe vpon the occasions expressed in the beginning of my letter to M. Hill for as yet he was not Doctor which he hath printed In it with painted words and great names of Doctors he so varnished the matter that at the first hearing it seemed not improbable Towards his aduersaries hee behaued himselfe modestlie geuing them the praise both of learning and godlinesse namely Calvine and Beza To blaze their error in this point he rubbed the Hebrew words Sheol and nepheshe and the greeke hades psyche pneuma as white as a whetstone Then after a solempne challenge to all the learned men in the world that did dissent from him he offered his notes to anie that would haue them he promised faire play if anie man would answere him he protested loue to him that coulde confute him and vowed a recantation in the same place if his forces could not bide the battle I hearing this braue challenge and mistrusting his cardes for all his facing wrought a freend that had acquaintance with him to help mee to his notes After two moneths or there-abouts hee sent them to mee vnder his owne hand Perusing them I found them out of their coullours nothing answerable to the shewe that they made in the pulpite Wherefore hearing of no man that did reply saving M. Wisdome in a sermon that M. Hill was not at and hoping that his protestations had beene as farre in his heart as they were faire in his mouth I resolued to answere him for the truthes sake though my leasure was not much promising my self as much thank for my labour as his great offers led mee to beleeue To keep it secrete I wrote in latine I seasoned my wordes with all moderation that might bee in a contrarie style I offered to confesse if it could be shewed that my answeres turned not the edge of his argumentes To be short I promised to yeelde to anie truth that he could proue I was in hope that this conference should haue beene priuate amongest vs and such freends onelie as hee or I might haue acquainted with it Indeed he offered mee to haue talked of the matter at a freends house But I considering that in such disputations stormes of wordes rysing out of hearts heated with contradiction doth hinder reason and stop judgement refused any conference but with the pen. This reply I finished within few daies But mistrusting mine own infirmities and knowing that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I kept it in my hand till the next May following Then going home to visite my naturall freendes I left it with a freend or two to be deliuered him They beeing doubtfull of my returne though it not best to sturre a coale that they knew no man in my absence to put out At my returne vnderstanding that they had not deliuered it I tooke it into my handes againe I added and altered diuerse things I wrote it new and sent it him inclosed in a letter In time of my absence which was half a yeare and more he had receaued by some secret meanes an englishe copie of the first draught which I my selfe had translated at the request of a freend not aboue fiue daies before my journey It I deliuered him with condition to bring it mee againe He brought it not and I forgot it In time of my absence he lent it to another the other gaue a coppie of it to one that put it in M. Hills hands To that before my returne he had fumbled vp this answere that now he hath printed I not knowing it sent him as I haue said the latine Vpon receit whereof hee sent the other amongst his freends It went amongst them from one to another from November for in Nouember I sent mine till the September following and then he sent it mee In this meane time speaches were giuen out that I had answered his sermoÌ„ that he had replied and I recanted These speeches grew dailie and lifted his heart as high as his name Whereon hee resolued to dispute in Oxenford for a scarlet hood He promised his freends to make that one of his questions
it be a discredite to them that other men bee thought off aswell as they My conclusion was that their names broght no more credite to your cause then Calvine Beza did bring ours My arguments were twise so manie as you make them 1. That they were all but men 2. That they who now are old were sometimes new 3. That they had no better warrant of Gods Spirit 4. That errors grew as thicke in their times as in ours Seeing then all men are fraile and old errours are as bad as newe and newe truthes as good as olde seeing the spirit of truth was then no stronger nor the spirit of error weaker all things in this comparison you see are aequall and my argumeÌ„t holdes for anie thing that you haue said You take the bit in your teeth and runne out of the way with an argument ab accidente Therefore fare-you-well that is not my way You cite Augustine and Ierome onelie to make vp nomber Their confession of their owne frailtie is against you If my arguments had not beene so true before that no witnesses can make them truer this would haue helpt mee well Men may see that you haue either a meruelous ill cause or great stoare of small judgement that can take so much paines to bring witnes into the courte to condemne your selfe And heere nowe seeing your owne men do counsell mee to trust no man without the worde I conjure you to trouble mee no more with your great musters of Luther Selneccer Chytreus Pomeranus c. If I would run that course we should set al the learned of the world together by the eares You will beare mee down I confesse with nomber For all the Monkes Friars Iesuites Abbotts Bishops Cardinals and Popes woulde swaie to your side If I were not sure of God and his truth I would neuer draw sword nor giue stroake in the cause HVME sect 3. THeir weaknes is no where more apparant then in this mater that we haue now in hand for â—erom ioineth his opinioÌ„ herein with a palpable error that Christ descended to deliuer the Fathers which to that day had bin in prison Augustine is not far behinde him who though hee confesseth that the Fathers were in ioy with Abraham Lazarus yet after some long disputation whether he did deliver all or some why these more then those at length he concludeth that hee did deliuer whome hee him selfe thought good For after that they had once conceaved that his soule descended into a locall hell There followed which could not choose many inconueniences There was non of them dreamed that which you avouch that hee descended into hell there to triumph or bind the divels or to augment their sorrows by shewing them from what grace they had fallen HILL his reply You write that Ierome and Augustine did hold a palpable error that is that Christ descended to deliuer the Fathers I hope you will not deny but the fathers haue their deliuerance by Christ from hell Therfore by the merits and works of Christ who I am sure conquered both deth and hell Therefore where you proue that Augustine and Ierome do erre I will leaue them as I saide before but where in they spake the truth I will prayse God for them But let vs see howe many wayes the scripture may be corrupted that is by adding altering diminishing Eue in the third Chap. of Genesis taught all her children so to doe for in the 3. verse thus shee saith But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden God hath said ye shal not eat of it neither shall ye touch it least ye dye First she changeth the word of God for God fayth Gen. 2. 17. of the tre of knowledge of good and euill thou shalt not eate Those words of the tree of knowledge of good and euill she changeth putteth in for them in the miust of the garden Farther God said they shuld not eat of it shee added that they might not touch it God said they should surely dye Eue said least wee dye heere she diminished the scriptures If then the Fathers haue added to the scriptures that the Fathers were fet out of hell there I leaue them and if you change hell in to graue as you do in the 16. psal and Act. 2. I wil leaue you also for I stand not vpon mens sayings but vpon the word of God But where you boldly affirme that not one of the Fathers haue deemed that which I say you shewe your self either to bee malicious in hiding the truth or else so ignorant that you haue not read the Fathers for diuers both old new are of my iudgement Ambrose on the fourth Chapter of the Ephesians thus writeth Christ therefore comming downe from heauen into the earth was borne a man afterward he died and descended into Hell from whence rising the third day he shewed death vanquished to every creature Augustine de tempore In his 137. sermon and in his thrid sermon of the resurrection thus sayeth Hell did restore him as a conquerour and the heauens did receaue him as a triumpher And in his second sermon hee saieth thus Behold you haue hard what our defender the God of vengeance is saide to haue done freely For after he was exalted that is was hanged of the Iewes on the crosse that I may touche these thinges brieflie assoone as hee had giuen vp the ghost the soule vnited to the Diuinitie descended into the bottom of hel and when he had touched the band of darkenesse as a fearefull glorious spoyler the wicked hellish Legions were affrayde trembling began to enquire saying Who is this dreadful glorious man Eusebius writing of the resurrection of our sauiour hath the like We must know that in the selfe same houre wherein our Sauiour bowing his head gaue vp the ghost his body being left in the graue his foul with the Diuinitie went downe to triumph ouer Hell Fulgentius writing to King Thtasymund in his third booke and eight Chapter not dreaming but wel aduised thus writeth The true humanitie of the sonne of God neyther was wholye in the graue nor wholie in hell but in the Sepulcher hee lay dead according to his true fleshe but in his Soule descended into Hell In his soule hee returned to the flesh which lay in the Sepulcher but in respect of the Diuinitie which neither is holden in place nor limited by bond he was wholy in the graue with his flesh and wholy with his Soule in Hel and by this meanes was fully enery where Christ because God was not seperated from the humanitie which he had assumpted which was both with his Soule in Hell that from Hel his Soule might returne a Conqueresse and was with his fleshe that by reason of his speedie resurrection it might not be corrupted I haue heere alleaged the
that spoake breake Now heere beholding the maior and the minor two brasen vnbreakable walles you set all your teeth on the poore conclusion to pull it from them To take this place of this Psalme quite from vs you alledge the holie Ghost and Peter two sufficient witnesses because they referre this place to the resurrection and we to the passion Allace good Doctor vbiacumen tuum Doe not you see man that though the negatiue Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell pertaineth to the resurrection yet the affirmatiue that his soule was in hell may pertaine to his passion Peter alledgeth the negatiue in the Psal to proue his resurrection and our question is not whether hee rose againe or not but whether the thing wherein he was is to bee taken for the place or the panges of hell And heere I muste needes confesse that this consideration hath driuen mee quite from Calvine whome in this place I first followed As for the place of the beleefe I am perswaded that his sense is moste agreable beeing godlie consonant to the Scriptures necessarie for the perfection of the creede not repugnant to the circumstances thereof and moste comfortable to a Christian conscience But in this place of this Psal now I see that Olevians opinion is truer more consonant to the rest of the text and more plaine against your drousie dreame Wherfore now I am perswaded that SHEOL is heer set for the state of the dead and my soule for mee as it is Psal 3. 2. Manie say to my soule that is to mee And Psal 7. 2. Least hee devoure my sonle lyke a Lyon that is mee And Psal 6. 3. My soule is sore troubled that is I am sore troubled So the sense must bee Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell that is mee amongest the deade That this must needes bee the true sense heereof I haue two reasons First that this was the SHEOL wherein Christes soule was not left whence hee rose againe as may appeare by this allegation of Peter But hee rose again from the graue and condition of the deade not from hell and condition of the damned Ergo the SHEOL wherein Christs soule was not left is the condition of the dead and not the place of the damned The answere here that he rose in soule and body the one from hell and the other from the graue will not holde for the name of resurrection belongeth onelie to the bodie because nothing ryseth againe but that which death laide downe So hath our beleefe the resurrection of the bodie not the resurrection of the soule This was M. Fieldes argument which did choake you in the act at Oxonford and hang so fast in your teeth that hee coulde not get it out of your mouth much lesse an answere to it The other is builded vpon the wordes of Peter Act. 2. 19. Men and brethren I may boldlie speake to you of the patriarch Dauid that hee is dead and buried and his sepulchre is amongest vs to this day In which wordes expounding this place of the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption hee laboureth to proue that Dauid spake not this of himselfe but of the Messias that was to come of his loines His reason is because Dauid is deade and buried and his sepulchre remained amongest them as if he had said because Dauids soule was left in Hell and saw corruption For where the negatiue is not true there the affirmatiue muste bee true by the rule of contradiction Wherevpon thus I reason Dauids soule that is Dauid himself as I haue said before was left in the SHEOL wherin Christs soule should not be left But Dauids soule was left in the state and condition of death Ergo it was the state and condition of death wherein Christes soule was not left by this place The same argument may bee formed negatiuelie to take away your exposition of this place Dauids soule was left in the SHEOL wherof it is said in the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption But Dauids soule was not left in the place of the damned Ergo it is not the place of the damned whereof it is said in the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption Wheras some alledge against this interpretation that it doeth violate the text taking the soule first for the whole man the whole againe for the bodie Let them consider that the condition of the dead expressed heere in the name of SHEOL pertaineth not to the body only but to the whole man Neither were it injurie to the text if it be so taken For the cup is set for wine and wine for the blood of Christ by Paull himself who vseth not to violate wordes These reasons therefore haue led mee from Calvine whome though I reuerence as he is well worthie as much as anie man yet I am not so maried to him howsoeuer M. Doct. is perswaded otherwise to folloâ—e him the bredth of a haire beyond truth and reason Hee may bee deceaued aswell as others though he hath plunged through manie deepes that haue devoured manie Nowe to returne againe and to followe vpon your walke you charge mee heere as euerie where with an vntruth To fasten it vpon mee you turne my wordes out of their figured coate into their bare skinne For whereas I say that Christ suffered the whole tormentes of hell vpon the crosse taking the drosse by a Synecdoche for the whole passion as he did before mee which said God forbid that I delight in any thing but in the crosse of Christ The preaching of the crosse is to manie foolishnes Christ reconciled vs to God by his Crosse You tell mee that it is most vntrue because he did not suffer his whole torments on the wodden Crosse which Symon the Cyrenian did beare on his backe And to make my wordes more odious you do them more injurie For whereas I say hee suffered the whole tormentes of Hell on the Crosse a thing defend-able you charge mee as saying he suffered all his torments vpon the Crosse meaning the Crosse of wood a thing without shewe of truth In the ende to fasten another little faulte on me it is but blasphemie you wring my last wordes in the fame presse For whereas I say that a word of double signification standeth at the courtesie of the reader to be taken as shall seeme most probable meaning that there is nothing in the word it self to lead the mynde to one signification more then another but depends vpon the probable circumstances and drift of the text you charge mee as making the Scriptures like a nose of waxe to bee set which way mens fantasie will bend it a thing as farre out of my penne as out of my heart and as far out of my heart as it is out of your heart to take my
words as I speak them HVMâ— his 5. Sect. BVt that hee neuer was there hee is too curious that will not stand content with Christes owne testimonies Father into thy handes I commend my spirit And in another place This day shalt thou bee with mee in Paradice And heere it is a world to see how men on your side labour to put out this candel First you say that this place Father into thy hands I commend my spirit is borrowed of Dauid and must bee taken in the same sense as Dauid vsed it before But you must consider when we vse other mens wordes either we cite them as testimonies or vsurpe them by imitation If we bring them in as witnesses wee may not alter their testimonie but if wee imitate them wee may without impeachmeÌ„t apply them to what sense best may beseeme our purpose In this place Christ citeth not Dauids wordes to testifie of his passion but imitateth Dauid in commending his soule into the handes of God Where you see that no necessity inforceth the same sense But be it so and I thinke it is so and that it maketh much against you For seing Dauids soule commeÌ„ded into the hands of God was neuer in Hell it will follow that Christes soule commended to the same protector was lykewise neuer there except you will ascribe lesse vertue to Christs prayers then to Dauids But Dauids soule say you went not streight way into heaven because he lived manie yeares after That he liued anie long time after if it were denied you will hardlie proue it But that maketh not to the question when Davids soule came into heauen But whether hee that commendeth his soule into the hands of God doth purpose that it shall descend into hell prooue that and you shall haue the goall As for Dauid he hauing deuoured heauen in hope doubted not if he liued anie long time after to speake that in the praesent time which he was well assured would come to pas And seeing Dauid was a figure of Christ and spake manie things in his owne person which aggree better with the person figured then with the figure these wordes may bee vnderstood as the casting of lottes on his garment and the digging of his hands and feet Wherefore if you will answere this place to the satisfaction of them that dissent from you you must bring proof that hee that meaneth to goe to Hell doth commend his soule into the handes of God or els you shall neuer bee able to darken the light of this Sunne with anie cloude of Sophistrie HILL his reply INdeed if these woords were spoken in the present time some shew of truth were in your words but in the Greeke they are in the future-tence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Father into thy hands I wil coÌ„mit my spirit Now your argument is this Christ commended his soule vnto his Father ergo immediatly he went not downe to hell Heere is more in your conclusion then is in your premises You may coâ—clud his soule went to heauen But not immediatly for it went to hell as I haue proued before for hell in the 16 Psalme doth not signifie the sorrowes of hell but the place as I haue confirmed already Therefore it is better to translate I wil commend then I do commend as Stephanus oâ— this place noteth Paule sayth Eph. 4. and 10. verse Now in that he ascended what is it but that he first descended into the lowest parts of the earth He that descended is euen the same that ascended farte aboue all heauens to fulfill all things Now if the same Christ did first desceÌ„d which did ascend then he descended in soule and body as he ascended in soule and body For both these must be effected in a wonderfull maner for they are reckoned by Salomon amongst the most stupendious works of the Sonne of God Proâ— 30. 4. Who hath ascended vp to heauen and descended who hath gathered the winde together in his fyst who hath established all the ends of the world By this scripture I iuferre that to ascend and descend are as miraculous works as to create and gouerne the world But if the soule of Christ did got to heaueÌ„ immediatly as you affirms contrary to this text then the descending of Christ had not bene so maruelous as his ascending Besides as you after alleage there is but one ascending but if Christs soule first went to heauen then his body then were there two ascensions But euen as Christ was but once borne and once dyed and once buried and once rose from the dead and but once commeth into iudgment so as Cyprian saith in his Sermon of the ascending of Christ Christ did once descend into hell they shall see God no more on the crosse nor they that are damned in hel Wherefore may it please you to accept the iudgement of Athanasius a Greke Father a man persecuted for the truthes sake by the Arrians he in his Creede saith thus who suffred for our saluation and descended into hell And interpreting the 1. Cor. 3. writeth Satan was enuious against our sauior for he killed him not knowing that it wold make against himself for Christ after his cros going down into hel hath vaÌ„quished death And becaus he knew no sin be could not be holde of deth Thus you see that not only Hill Augustine and Ierome doe say that Christ after hee had vttered these words into thy hands I will commend my spirit but Athanasius a Greek father who better then you vnderstood the meaning of these words Therefore it is a woÌ„der to see how those of your side labour to extinguish this everlasting light of Gods truth set vp a cousuming candle of your owne making Where you teach that Christs Soule did no more descend into hell then Dauids did therin you are deceaued For Christ was to deliuer vs from hell Dauid also wherefore if Christs soule had not gone to hell Dauids must and mine and yours And for this cause as you say they are true in Christ figured but not in Dauid the figure and herevpon Peter thus reasoneth that they could not be true in Dauid For Christ soule was in hel and yet not tormented his body in the graue but not corrupted wheras Dauids body saw corruption and if his soule had gone to hell it had found no redemption Therefore to be in graue and returne without corruption and to be in hell and returne with conquest of the diuell were two peculiar things to the Sonne of God not to any other of the sons of men And heere you vtter an other blasphemy that Christs soule had no other prerogatiue then Dauids soule for by the same reasone you may argue that Christs body had no greater prerogatiue then Dauids body for as this is false so
the Scriptures that he was like vs in all things sinne onelie excepted HVME his reioynder INdeede say you if these wordes were spoken in the present time some shew of trueth were in our assertion Then if I can proue these words to be spoken in the praeseâ—â— time you will grant vs some shew of trueth which is more then commonly you vse to yeelde First you know that by a Hebraisme the future time may bee set for the present especiallye when continuance is signified Now that it must be so heere I hope this Syllogisme will perswade you That verb which signifieth an action presentlie done when it is spoken is of the present time But this verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doeth signifie an action then presentlie done when Christ vsed these wordes Ergo this verbe is of the present time The maior is a rule of Grammer from the definition of the present time of a verbe The minor is cleer of it self because Christ did then commend his soule into the hands of God when he vsed these wordes But if this will not satisfie you take this to proue that it cannot be the future time That action which can bee referred to no time to come cannot be the future time But this action cannot be referred to anie time to come because he presentlie gaue vp the ghost and men after death commend not their soules into the handes of God Ergo this action cannot be of the future time And now hauing taken all this paines to gaine nothing in your eies but a shewe of trueth I must put you in minde that though this verbe did pertaine to the future time yet your knot is in the wrong rushe For it is not the time when hee did commend but when his soule came into the handes of his Father that must helpe you if you could bee holpen And therefore you may whissel presentlie for anie future help that the future time of this verb can yeeld you to shew my judgement of this place all things both in heauen earth and hell be in the hands of God that is in his power to dispose of them as it seemeth meetest to his owne glorie But that cannot bee the sense heere because his soule was in that sense in the hands of God euen then when he did commend it The hand is the instrument of receauing in which we rake those things that we bring into our own peculiaritie and proper possession In that sort Anthropopathetcially those soules and spirits which stande in the presence of God are said to be in his hand Of which it is said in the Psalme In thy presence is the fulnesse of ioy and at thy right hand pleasures for euermore And so Christ being in the agonies of death and hel doth commend his soule into the handes of God to possesse a fulnesse of joy and aeternitie of pleasures Like to this is Stephans prayer Act. 7. Lord Iesus receiue my spirit Heere after your wonted guise you forme my argument as pleaseth you and then you tell mee it is false If it be false you made it such If the fault had not beene more in your skill or your will or both then in the matter you might haue made it inferiâ— No man that commendeth his soule into the hands of God meaneth to go to hell But Christ as man did commend his soule into the hands of God Ergo he ment not to go to Hel. And if he meant not I am perswaded hee went not If you had framed it thus there had beene no neede of Procustes with his racke nor of anie patche to make it fit our waste To the maior of this argument for lack of better mater you crie out blasphemie And then finding no blasphemy in the words themselues you tel me that they insinuate that Christ is but a meere man and that others haue part in the worke of our redemption Your insinuations are verie deepe But heere M. Doctor I will offer you a good bargaine Hooke me this insinuation on my propositioÌ„ in mood figure and I will neuer write more against you on this question And now I must needes note an especiall grace in your writing When the argument pincheth you you wring it with a crooked wrest and straining out some filthie licour that you your self had powred vpon it you call witnesses to shewe the worlde what filthie geare it is And so with manie testimonies in thinges that no man that hath one dramme of sense will denie you make vp a shamfull and importable booke Heere to proue that Christ is our onelie Saviour a thing not denied you bring in Luther Ambrose and Theophilact Neither apply you them to the purpose though the purpose be easier to proue then the things you apply them to But your wandering hand cannot beate on one Anvil And wheras I taking the vantage of your constructioÌ„ of these words whereon we stand Father into thy handes I commend my spirite thus proue that Christs soule went no more to Hell then Dauids If these wordes haue the same sense in Christs mouth as they had in Dauids Christ soule went no more to Hel then Dauids did But you say they haue the same sense Ergo. you let goe the maior and the minor and take vp your vsuall hubub against the conclusion exclayming and crying out blasphemie Then running about and seeking Athanasius in euerie corner to chide mee because I giue Christs soule and body no greater prerogatiue then Dauids you bring him in not saying one word to the purpose For he good-man knew right well that Christ was like to Dauid and vs all in all things sinne onlie excepted and therefore would not speak against his conscience As for the praerogatiue that you woulde haue him to haue to goe to hell it is so base a one if it was anie that if Bishoppricks were no better Doctors woulde not shoulder for them like beggers at a doall Whereas you argue that if Christs soule had not gone to Hel Dauids must and yours and mine if you meane the hel of the damned as you must if you speak to the purpose it is absurd For Christ redeemed vs on the Crosse where hee did beare the hellishe burden of our sâ—â—nes and not in hell where hee paied not one dram of our debt To set a wrong sense on this place you bring foorth a heap of handes inough almoste to remoue Cheviot hill to Charing Crosse Whereupon you conclude that the sense must needes be Into thy consolation mercie protection and gouernement I will commend my soule If that was his meaning why did he not commend his bodie also in the hands of his Father And why delaied he this praier till the storme of his miseries was blowne ouer If this conclusion did follow vpon the premisses it were a fault to confute it But nowe I hope vpon a pardon though I wipe it away with a Syllogisme Consolation pertayneth to the distressed mercie to the guiltie protection to the
it is no more capable of more particularitie if it bee translated this day then Adame Hill Vicar of Westburie and Parson of Goosage can be made more particular by saying this Adame Hill Vicar c. This Logick reacheth far beyond the praecepts that you learned in the Vniversitie and yet I see that it commeth much short of that which is in you For you will not onelie affirme it but confirme it also that hodie eris mecum is asmuch as eris mecum in aeternum If you wil make that good you may goe whether you will no hedge can holde you The Scripture hath by way of comparison that 1000. yeares are as one day in the sight of the Lord. If all aeternitie bee in your sight but as one day you must be some magnus Apollo so much greater then God as aeternitie is more then 1000. yeares But what can you make of 1000. yeares that can make so much of one day One day I am sure is not the proper name of aeternitie And therefore I would faine know of a man of your skill seeing when one word vsurpeth the place of another except it be like the Popes statuimus for abrogamus it must be either effectum pro causa subiectum pro adiunctâ— simile pro simile pars pro toto aut contra to which of these heades you will referre hodie pro aeterno If you thinke it pars pro toto then in your conceit the partes of a thing infinite must be finite contrarie to an axiome esteemed for truth amongst other men that an infinite thing is not deuide-able Heereof commeth the maxime that you after alledge out of Aristotle that in things aeternall there is no time You by it entiteling it the Philosophicall reason of Aristotle vndertake to proue that one day doth signifie aeternitie but streight way by nimble convoiance of legerdemaine you slip the thing you promise turne your hand to proue Aristotles philosophicall reason For if there be time say you in aeternitie then is there motion Thus like a merchaunt that fraughting his ships with corne to go to Deep when shee is lanched forth into the sea turneth his saill and pointeth to Spaine You pretending to proue that one day must needes heere signifie aeternitie fall to proue that in aeternitie there is no time a thing neuer denied But reason woulde haue hewed an other peece of worke out of Aristotles block In aeternitie there is no time In one day there is time Ergo one day is not aeternitie But to proue this you alledge four texts of scripture which are all but the repetitions of one out of the 2. Psalme wherein you are deceiued your self labour to deceaue others For to day in that place doth not signifie â—eternity as Iunius proueth finelie in his Parallels The words be Thou art my sonne this day haue I begotten thee Wherein saith hee is noted first the aeternall begetting of his Deitie in these wordes Thou art my sonne and the temporall begetting of his humanitie in these wordes to day haue I begotten thee His reason is drawne from the place of Paule which heere you quote Act. 13. For he alledging this place to the Iewes in their Synagogue as a plaine argumeÌ„t of Christs Divinitie could neuer haue hoped to effect that amongst such a froward companie if he had put such a violent face on the text as to take one day for all aeternitie To this most excellent reason I add another out of the same text This place of the psalm doth proue that God raised vp Iesus to fulfill that promise to the Children which he before had made to their Fathers But that promise was then performed when Iesus was given to them in the flesh Ergo this place of the Psalme must haue relation to that day when the sonne of God which was before all aeternitie was giuen to the Iewes in the flesh Notwithstanding these reasons if it were granted you which you can neuer proue that to day in this place of the Psalme doth signifie aeternitie yet it will not follow that it must needes haue the same signification in these words of Christ likewise Wherefore to fill this ditch you fal to worke vpon the text In it you make along haruest of little corne telling in manie wordes that grace glorie aeternall life the things giuen are aeternall But what makes the aeternitie of the gift or of the giuer to proue that the time wherin it was giuen is aeternall Of things aeternall onlie God who is aeternitie it selfe is without beginning and ending Grace glorie and aeternall life imparted to his creatures of the fulnesse of his aeternitie haue a beginning then when they are giuen though their continuance be aeternall Now in these words This day thou shalt bee with mee this day noteth the time when this aeternall gift should begin and not the continuance and durance thereof This may suffise to crush all the small bones of your shrimpish arguments As for your Fathers Doctors whom you alledge not directlie but by such consequentes as you pinne to the tailes of their gownes I will passe them ouer for breuities sake and because you haue promised in the 3. sect not to relie on men in this question HVME Sect. 7. BVt now to come to your reasons First you muster all your forces about the Hebrew and Greeke against the most learned of this age It will coast you a great deale of eloquence to perswade the worlde that Tremelius and Iunius Calvine and Beza and the translaters of the Geneva Bible with manie more excellent men that spent their age in that studie did not know these words as well as you had as great care to sift out the truth For my part neither is my skill so great neither am I now minded to stand with you vpon that point I see no inconvenience to hurt vs nor vantage giuen you if I grant that SHEOL must be englished Hell in the place of the Psalme which you cite Onelie this I stand vpon which I haue said that this word is manie times vsed in the Scriptures for the torments of hell and must needes be so taken heere The verie order of the wordes will ouerthrow your conceit Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption For seing the Hell that his soule should not bee left in commeth before the graue wherein his bodie should not see corruption what hell went before his burial but onelie that of hiâ— passion wherin he paied the whole ransom of our redemption and nailed the handwrite that was against vs to his Crosse HIL his reply Two vntruthes are in these fewe wordes First you make much adoe about SHEOL against almost all the learned men of this age There ar on my side Luther Aepinus Felinus Pomeranus Lucas Lossius Selueccer Vrbanus Rhegius The authors of the Centuries Erasmus Chytreus Molerus Peter
Martyr Lauaterus Prouerb 27. In England Lambert Robert Samuel Latimer Becon Hutchinson Fox and Nowell Heere are 20. most learned men of these latter times as I can shew you in my poore Library besides that most learned and reuerend Father M. Allen and besides the aduised iudgement of the learned Conuocations of England not only in King Edwards raigne Anno Domini 1552. but also since the raigne of her Maiestie 1571. In the which Canuocations I am perswaded were as learned men as any were either in England or Europe Therfore the learned reader must either thinke you a man of little reading and that you neuer sawe these learned mens workes or else of greate malice that you will disable al these for learning who left a better testimonie behinde them then euer you wil vnlesse you haue mor then you haue shewed in this answer The other vntruth is that SHEOL in the 16. Psalme doth signyfie the torments of hell which Christ suffered in his passioÌ„ on y â— crosse That this is vntrue it is manifest not by conceit but by Pet. Sermon Act. 2. 31. Hee knowing this before spake of the resurrection that his soule was not left in hell nor his flesh saw corruption You say it is spoken of the passion Peter saith it is spoken of the resurrection and good cause hath he so to say for the words going before and coÌ„ming after do prooue it The words going before are these Psalm 16 9. Wherefore my hart was glad my glory reioyseth my fleshe also shall rest in hope The words following in the 11. verse are these Thou shalt shewe me the path of life in thy presence is the fulnes of ioy and at thy right are pleasures for euer more Where can you finde your torments in the word glad or in the word reioiseth or in the word rest or in these words fulnesse of ioy or in these pleasures for evermore Was Christ glad of his torments Did he reioise or wepe in them Who would deliuer this doctrine but hee that wanteth either science or conscience or both To lye once is a fault but affirme it twice is a greater fault To speake a lye is hurtful but to write a lye aduisedly is more hurtfull To lye in a matter politicall is dangerous but to lye in deuine matters without speedie repentance is damnable You say noe vantage is giuen to me nor inconuenience to you if you grant SHEOL to be Hel Let your frinds iudge what vantage you haue geuen to the truth and shame to your self by gainsaying Saint Peter and by affiâ—ming that in the resurrection are torments where Dauid and Peter say are fulnes of ioy and pleasures for enermore Therefore it is the saying of Peter that Christs soule was not left in hell and not my conceit and it is deceit in you to affirm the contrary Further where you say that Tremelius and Iunius are better learned in the Hebrew language then my selfe I confesse it so are the Iewes them selues then Tremelius and Iunius shall I therefore beleue the Iewes no more will I beleue the Translation of any other learned man if he disagree with Dauid and Sauite Peter Finially to answer your curious question you aske me in what hell was Christ soule before his buriall To this I answer in that hell whither all Infidels goe for their vnbelefe I reade but of one Hell if you knowe any more let mee see your proofe and theÌ„ wil I tel you into what hel Christ desceÌ„ded But who but you doth thinke it an vnpossible thing for a soule to desceÌ„d into hel before the body be buried The soule in an instaÌ„t passeth to heaueÌ„ or hel but the body I am sure must haue time to be buried for bodies are in places circumscriptiuely Angels and soules definitiuely and God is in all places vniuersally And the soule came out of hell into the body before the body could come out of the graue therfore most aptly it is said Acts 12. 31. Thou shalt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer my flesh to see corruption For as August saith in his 57. epistile ad Dardanum That was spoken of his soul which cam from hel so quickly this of his body which could not corrupt by reason of his speedy resurrection and writing on the 85. Psalme he saith wherfore this is his voice in the psalme not by any mans coniecturs but by the exposition of the Apost Thou shalt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption HVME his Reioynder IN this section I followed Calvine from whose judgement I am nowe departed on this place of the Psalme as said is before sect 4. Yet that the reader may see how neare the trueth Calvine creepes I will defend him from all this wyde shot and cleare my self of these hainous accusations First you begin with vntruthes there is nothing so much in your mouth It should seeme that the moulde is not vnfit for such matter that casteth so much shot of that sise But if you had not beleeued your secretarie better then my owne copie the first of these vntruthes had neuer founde the waye from your owne lippes My wordes are Tu multa de nominibus inferni contra doctissimos huius atatis disputas As for your favorits in the end of my Epistle I graunted that you wanted not the countenance of sundrie great writers who rather said as you say then confirme their saying by Scripture or reason My wordes were multos habet fateor magnâ—s patronos causa vestra qui ita potius censuerunt quam ratione sententiam suam confirmarunt NotwithstaÌ„ding all this you runne such a treble on mee with vntruthes that if I would runne the counter-tenor you would blushe to heare the discorde of your owne descant As for your 20. authours first they were not all Hebricians nor vnderstood the word wherin you say they tooke your parte Secondlie though some of them drewe neere your opinion yet they neuer wrote of SHEOL to bee taken as you will haue it Thridlie Peter Martyr held that the soule of Christ did present it self to all the dead aswel the blessed as the damned Fourthlie Luther and Latimer holde that Christ suffered in Hell Fiftlie Lossius and Hemingsus holde that the whole Christ as he was borne of the Virgine Marie descended into Hel. Sixtlie Mollerus affirmeth that your opinion cannot be proved by this place of this Psalme Seuinthly M. Nowell holdeth that Christ by the vertue of his death did pearse to the dead and the damned Hell Eightlie Lambert saith nothing for you but onelie quoteth a place out of Augustine to another purpose wherein August seemeth to say as you say But Lambert neither lyketh nor dislyketh it Nynthlie Robert Samuell saith no more for
bee in Latine Thus much for the aunswere that you deale with You left another answere which I will heere set against your argument in his best liuery If the man is said to be say you wher the soule is then where the man is not the soule is not But the man is saide to bee where the soule is Ergo where the man is not the soule is not First say I the maior is not true For though the man may bee said to bee where the soule is by a Synecdoche yet it will not follow that where the man is not the soule is not Because this speach is simple and that is figuratiue In a good argument the wordes must carie one face not heere one and there another To examplifie this with your owne examples out of Math 8. Manie shall rest with Abraham Isaac and Iacob in the kingdome of heauen Abraham Isaac and Iacob are said to be in heauen by a figure becaus their soules are there But if you will take the words simplie and conclude because Abraham that is the whole man is not in heauen therefore his soule is not there euerie carter will finde the absurditie of your fallacie This for my first reply Now I add that you flee from the wordes of the text For Christ said not to Marie I haue not beene with my Father but I am not yet ascended to my Father which wordes will admit no forme to carie your conclusion turne them and winde them as you list For the Scripture denieth in plaine words that the name of ascension can be giuen to the soule I hope you will grant that Dauids soule is in heauen and yet of him it is saide Act. 2. 34. David is not ascended This wypeth also away your other objection of two ascensions For that name was neuer yet giuen to a man in respect of the soule And therefore I will haue the goale though you stand in it You wring out of my examples of the whole race of mankind Campions bodie two absurdities The one that I hold no greater vnion betweene Christs soule and his bodie then al the men in the world The other that I holde the soule of Christ to bee mortall because I compare it to an integral part of Campions body Why M. Doctor haue you now you are Doctored forgot the olde speach of the Schooles when you were a generall Quae comparantur in vno non comparantur in omnibus Things cōpared in one thing are not like in all things You may bee like your Father and yet perhappes your Father coulde not wrangle in this matter like your selfe And the Cuckow singeth onelie in the spring like the Nightingall though in melodie and variety of notes there bee no likelie-hood at all An argument taken indefinitly from the manhood of Christ to his soule and his bodie parts thereof is no better then from the race of mankinde to euerie particular man or from the bodie of the traitour Campion to the parts thereof And yet if you regarde the vnion of the soule body or the immortality of the soule there is no more comparison then betweene your spirit and your Fathers if it was righter or the Cuckowes song and the Nightingals beeing far sweeter Lastlie you tel mee that I vtter a great error in these wordes the whole man Christ Indeede if I had said man the whole Christ I had perchance opened my head to this venew But now I am faster locked then that you can fasten anie blowes vpon mee with the best weapons in your armorie For seeing the worde of truth doeth call Christ a man so manie times I am perswaded it wil not proue so foule an errour to cal the whole man Christ except you can proue that some part of him was Christ and not the whole The testimonie of Athanasius to confute this errour toucheth not mee The conclusion out of Irenaeus though it might haue a favourable construction I leaue it amongst the judgements of men which you haue promised not to trust sect 3. HVME Sect. 12. NOwe let vs come to the great bulwark of your defense which you made choise of to raze the whole worke vpon I meane to bee the text of your sermon It is written in the first of Pet 3. That Christ was put to death in the flesh and was quickened in the spirit By the which spirit he went and preached to the spirites that are in prison and were disobedients in the dayes of Noah c Heere Beza whome we follow because he commeth nearest to the true sense of the Apostle by this word Spirit doth giue vs to vnderstand the Deity of Christ following Iohn who called God a Spirit and by this word flesh his māhood containing both his body and soule as hee findeth it vsed of Paule God was made manifest in the fleshe Which Antithesis of the divine and humane nature Paule doeth also expresse in the same wordes which was made of the seede of Dauid according to the fleshe and declared mightelie to bee the sonne of God according to the Spirit Where you see that he vseth the words no otherwise then he findeth them vsed in the Scriptures Now that this cānot be the sense of them you reason thus First say you this Participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doeth signifie some motion from some place can by no meanes agree with the diuine essence which beeing at one time in all places cānot at anie time leaue any place To this I answere that it is spoken of the same spirit in the 18. of Gen. I will go downe and see whether the Sodomites haue done according to the crie that is come vnto mee And in Exod. 3. I am come to deliuer them out of the hands of the Aegyptians You can not bee ignorant M. Hill that the spirit of God speketh so manie times of the Deity by a figure called Anthropopatheia when God doth declare his presence in one place more thē in another by some notable effect Which in this place was most necessary to note vnto vs the cōtinual presence of Christ in his church departing as it were from all other places which indeede hee cannot and sitting in it as it were a continual ruler and moderator therof Next you alledge the other participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is quickened that because it is a passiue it can not stand with the Deitie which cannot suffer at al. This we denie not For we attribute not this participle to the Deitie but to the whole Christ God and man Neither doth the text say that the spirit was quickned but that Christ was quickened in the Spirit Thirdlie you tel mee that mortified and quickened are contraries both attributed to Christ at once to note vnto vs that he was both dead and aliue at one instant Heere we confesse that they be attributed to one Christ but why they shold be referred to one time wee see no reason to induce vs to think it To this
preach beeing destitute of a tongue mouth and other organes of necessitie required in that action Eightlie to what end shuld Christ preach to those damned soules who were past the frute of his preaching that which you say that he went to reproue them is not liklie For meÌ„ are reproued either for amendement or to take away excuses which to these was needlesse beeing past all remedie and excuse Ninthlie this preaching was then when their dis-obedience was reform-able which was in the dayes of Noah and neuer since Add to these if it please you that moste infallible reason of Bezaes taken from the drift and scope of the text to whose notes I referre you being not able to handle it so well as hee hath done it himself HIL his Reply HEere you play the Captaine and will beate down bulwarks and therefore you should haue these 4. properties in you vertue knowledge authority and felicity for the first two they are in you God grant you vse theÌ„ to his glory but what authority you haue to interpret the word I know not therefore in this case I hope you shall haue no felicitie Where you say that this word spirit doth signifie the deity and this word flesh the humanity of Christ and that there is an antithesis betwene the diuine humane nature I confesse y â— spirit some time doeth signifie the Godhead and fleshe the humanity of Christ But they doo not so signifie in this place as I proue by the circumstances of the text and the woords them selues For where you say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 killed or put to death doth signifie the whole passion of Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth the resurrection of Christ that can note be for of the passion of Christ is mention made before in the same 18. verse Christ suffered for vs the just for the vnjust to bring vs to God Now after his sufferings ended as Peter saith he was both killed and made aliue Now of his resurrection is mention made in the 21. verse as of his ascention in the 22. verse Therfore seeing the sufferings of Christ are mentioned before and his resurrection is namelye set downe after whereof can these words he vnderstood but of the seperation of the body and the soule and of the state of them during their seperation for an antithesis as you know is of contrary or diuers things as in this place you see in killed and quickned now how both these were true at on time S. Peter doth shew for at the same time he was dead as concerning his body he was aliue in spirit that is in soule for the soule seperate from the body is aptly called a spirite Eccle. 12. 7. And dust returne to earth as it was and the spirite returne to God that gaue it So is it taken Heb. 12. 23. Act. 7. 49. and so doth this woord signifie in this place for Christ was not killed both in body and soule but only in body and in flesh for if the soule of Christ had bene killed then had it bene mortall Therefore Athanasius Epiphanius and all the Fathers which did confute the Heretiques called Damoerite and Appolinaris which denyed Christ to haue a soule do coÌ„fute them by this place prouing that his spirite was among the spirits that his soule seperate from his body was among the soules seperate from their bodies This interpretation you see is gathered out of Gods woord is made more manifest by the wordes following 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we translate In which sprite he went and preached to the spirits in prison First you translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the which But in the 1. pet 16 you do not so translate it nor in the 2. Chap. and 12. ver the same woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are Eph. 1. 13. 2. 22. 5. 18. and so could I cite at the least an hundreth texts in the new Testament where if you translat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the which or by whome you shall ouerthrow the meaning of the holy ghost The next word construing is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wâ—ich as I haue saide before so I auouche still is spoken noâ— of the deity neuer in all the Scriptures and therefore must needes be spoken of the soul of Christ To conâ—ute this you alleadg Gen. 18. 21. Exod. 3. 8. First I must tell you these bookes were written in the Hebrewe tong and not in the Ereâ—ke I craued an instant out of the new Testament Secondly in those places that you haue named y â— interpreters do traÌ„slate Iarad by y â— greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And this I proue Iohn 16. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For if I shall not depart the comforter wil not come vnto you but if I shal depart I will send him vnto you Heere you see when he speketh of the descending of the deity he vseth y â— word 368 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but when he speaketh of the humanitie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And in the same chapter verse the 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I came out from the Father and cam into the world againe I leaue the world and goe to my father And this proprietie of speach which the holy ghost vseth ought to be obserued I confesse the scriptures vseth the figure Anthropopatheia but when God is said to come downe there is vsed the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or some one of the forenamed and when mention is made of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is alwaies spoken of the humanitie as it is to be seen Luk. 4. 30. 9. 51. 52. 56. 57. Luk. 13. 22. Ioh. 8. 1. And in this place of Peter the last verse is vsed the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He went vp into heauen Therfore if you can quote but one text in the new Testament that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is figuratiuely applied to the deitie your interpretation may seeme tolerable but if yon can not as I knowe it is impossible then can you neuer proue your interpretation to be agreaeble to faith because it is not agreable to y â— word Out of the next word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this I note he that was killed and quickned did preach but Christ was killed and quickned ergo Christ not the deitie preched He preched not vocally for he was killed ergo he preached really in soule for here is noted First who preached Christ To whom to the spirits Where in hell When after his death and before his resurrection This is the order of Peter and of our Creede which cannot bee by man ouerthrowen The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
suffered a violent death For thanatotheis being deriued of thanateo must needs signifie put to death Now I hope you wil not say Christ was put to deth in soul body but in body only And wher you say that Christ suffered in soule aswell as in body that is true that is gathered not of thanatotheis y â— is killed but out of these words antecedent for Christ suffered the iust for the vniust No reasonable man but hee will say that the sufferings of Christ are comprised rather in the word suffered then in y â— word killed To your fourth reason I reply that Christ was raysed from the dead but it is specially signified in the word resurrection ver 21. therfore I do not confound those things that are distinguished but your selfe for you make suffered and killed all one and quickned and the resurrection all one and so mak not only a confusion but a tautology and needelesse repetition which neuer was read in the word of God To your fift argument where you say zoopoiâ—isthai is to receaue life I confesâ—e it is to be made aliue Then you vrge it can not be spoken of y â— soule which neuer lost life Then by y â— same reason more strongly it can not be spoken of the Godhead which hath doth shal liue for euer for God caÌ„ not receaue life but y â— soule is said to liue when he is out of the body not because he liued not before but because y â— body doth hinder y â— actions of the soule Iohn 11. 25. He that beleeueth in mee though he were dead yet shall he liue Sap. 9 15. The corruptible body is heavie vnto the soule the earthie mansion keepeth downe the minde that is full of cares 2. Cor. 4 16. Therfore we faint not but though our outward man perish yet our inward man is dayly renewed Heere Paul sayth the weaker the body is y â— stronger is his soule therefore the death of the body is the life of the soule To drawe to ane ende your Antithesis of the Deuinitie humanitie is answered before For your Antithesis must be of things contrary or at the least diuers and seperate but as you affirme truly the Godhead was never seperated from the humanitie therefore this antithesis is of the body and soule which at this time were deuided and not betweene the deity and humanitie which were alwaies vnited wherfore this bulwarke I can assure you will stand and you haue ouershot both it your self in attempting to ouerthrow it For the very scope of the Apostle is this all Christians must suffer afflictions for well doing for Christ did not only suffer both in body and soule but also was put to a shamefull death in his body and in his soule went downe to the soules in hell which were vnbeleeuers in the dayes of Noah but Christ did arise againe from hel and the graue and ascended both in body soule to heauen therfore shal you that suffer for wel doing be deliuered from death and hel by his merits and goe vp into heauen and be partakers of his glory as you haue ben partakers of his affliction Moreouer as you referre mee to reade Bezas greate notes one this text so I pray you to reade Aretius handling this place whose words ar these Generally sayth Aretius Pet. repeateth three effectes of Christs death if you marke it wel The first pertaineth to the damned The second to the elect The third the person of Christ The first was declared in his descending in to hell The second in his resurrection The third in his ascention into heauen This is the true and naturall meaning of this place which wee will follow leauing the intrications of other interpretations I willinglye confesse this place is very hard for Augustine doubteth of it Luther douteth of it how it is to bee vnderstoode but this obscurity aryseth not of the place but of the varietie of interpretations If thou marke the plainnesse of the place the matter will be easye but that pleaseth not all men therefore that euery on may establish his owne sence they apply the words of the Apostle Peter to their owne conceit But leauing these let vs imbrace that which the words do teach vs in the which if we attaine to the truth it is well if not yet they shall bee probable because they haue warrant out of the scriptures and leane to the very letter to reto otherwise it is certain the knowledge of man to be vnperfect in many questions of holie scripture of the which the Apostle doth warne vs 1. Corin. 15. For now wee knowe vnperfectlie I haue sayd here is declared three effects of Christs death which differ in time are set in order in the Creede The first effect is that Christ being dead denounced eternal paines to the wicked in hell The words of the Apostle are these In which spirite he went and preached to the spirits detained in prison I take the place simply of the descence into hell for so the words do plainly sound and I see al the Fathers so to interpret them Augustine Epist 99. and Ciprian doth manifestly interpret this place of the descending into Hel. Neither doth the word prison hinder this Interpretation which in the Apocal. 20. 5. is taken for hel When a thousand yeers shal be fulfilled Satan shall be losed out of his prison Therefore the prison that Peter heere speaketh of is the place deputed to the damned Hyther came Christ as we confes in the Creede He went downe into Hell where Hell is it is a foolish curious question to enquire sith no man coÌ„ming to that place euer returned but only Christ Furthermore what Christ did there Peter expresseth he preached to the spirits that is he declared that he shewd himselfe manifestly to the world and made that dire and mornefull sermon namely to y â— wicked that the mirit of his death did nothing pertaine vnto them but by his presence were confirmed those punishments of the which Noah and other prophets had forwarned them And the tyme of this Preaching I referre not to the tymes of Noah but to the tyme of hys descending into Hell Wherevnto agreeth the worde pneumasi that is spirits for hee preached to the spirits that is to dead and not to liuing men Thus sarre Aretius I could heere alleage many other newe Writers whiche are of my iudgement but because you yeelde them no credite therefore of purpose I will omit them HVME his Reioynder to the 12. sect THis berrie is so confused that I can not finde where to enter my firret First I prooued that Beza whome we follow in this place doth no violence to the wordes but vseth them as hee findeth them vsed by Iohn Paull and Peter Which foundation beeing laide I answere your
It was the improbabilitie of your opinion that droue a man of so much judgement as Erasmus was to make that doubt But Carlill and Servetus you say do denie it In your printed sermon as you call it you lay your malice more open There you alledge for this antiquitie joined with veritie so there you call your owne opinion all the learned of all ages old and new all the Prophetes and Apostles and sybilles of the heathen all the creatures in heauen earth liuing and dead and lastlie all the Divels thēselues Onelie some possessed you say with Divels as the Iewes Seruetus and Carlill denie it Heere you vtter your choller more plainelie challenging to your owne side all the learned of all ages olde and newe and leauing nothing to your aduersaries but block-isme dol-tisme and diuelish giddinesse But God bee thanked you haue not the disposing of gifts and spirits There be men that denyes your opinion to haue anie ground in the word as farre excelling you in all kindes of learning as you count your self before Sir Thomas your Curat at Goosage and of such zeale and constancy in Gods cause with out regard of wordlie preferments as I pray God a man that can holde two benefices and would haue seauen if he could get them might mend that fault and shew himself as farre from Diuelish giddinesse as they As for Servetus I neuer saw his book which Calvine in his Epistles doth say was printed at Vienna But this I know that he held many grosse errors concerning the Trinitie Humanitie and Deitie of Christ as it is apparent in an Epistle written by the Ministers of Basil to the Syndicks and senate of Geneva As for this question I know not what he held but it is not likelie that euer he touched it And this I am sure of that he was burned by the greatest favorites of our opinion I meane the Genevites Carlill excepting his fault was a man for judgement and learning manie degrees before your self He made a slip indeede as who hath not Though you throwe the first stone at him you are not cleare your self Besides the mani-slips made in this book and other pulpits also you taught on S. Iames his day in Trubridge Anno 1591. If I do wel remember the yeare that weomen did beare children without pain in time of innocencie And because you would be sure not to be mistaken you did repeate it in the after noone in the same tearmes that you spake it in the fore-noone a fault of lesse judgement and learning then Carlils was The Iewes bee enemies to our faith and therefore doe not meete with vs nor acknowledge the truth that we do holde in this article As for the place that they take from you in the Hebrew Psalme and wherupon your choller doth rise I see no cause why they are not to bee beleeued in their owne tougue before all others that haue learned that tongue of them Their opinion of those words if they be taken right doth impeach Christs passion not so much as your own what euer it pleaseth you and Aepinus to dreame and suspect without cause and matter But vpon the Iewes the enemies of our faith Servetus an Hereticke with Carlill whome for his fault not so foule as your owne you boldlie and peremptorlie tearme possessed with a Diuell in this place you would faine lay the firste broaching of our opinion to deceaue the simple I hope you will leaue this craft one day Howsoeuer you may purchesse a plause amongest the ignorant the wise and learned will hisse you out of the schooles if you runne this course as you haue begunne HVME his 17. Sect. THey say that you preached the same at Leycock condemning all men that dissent from you of furie and madnesse as men fighting against the holie Ghost and spurning at a doctrine so profitable so godlie so wholesome and so full of all comfort and solace Heere M. Hill I appeale to your owne conscience what profite what commoditie what health safetie or solace is in your opinion that ours compriseth not Seeing our whole solace and safetie comfort and commoditie consisteth in this that we vnderstand that Christ God and man hath takē vpon him our curse and paying a full ransome for our sinnes vpon the Crosse hath reconciled vs to the loue of his Farher which we had loste by our Father Adam that nowe wee assure our selues of heauen without all feare of Hell What either comfort or commoditie can the sending of Christ into a place where ther was left no comfort nor commoditye adde to this so perfite and full a joy All good men are sorie that you carrying the commendation of zeale and learning haue joined your selfe with M. Chalfont who enterprised this matter so vnaduisedly to say no worse and hath almost shaken the foundation of the Church which God forbid with a dangerous division Your side I confesse hath manie great defendants which doe rather speake for you then confirme your opinion either with scripture or reason I was my self of your opinion till the sway of truth which I haue alwaies rather followed then mine owne fantasies did carie mee to the contrarie I am perswaded that manie of your authors if they had heard the reasons that you heare would neuer haue said as you doe But because the ignorant may not think that you haue all the world on your side Whether you regarde the nomber or the excellencie of the men our cause is nothing inferiour to yours As for M. Wisedome if he had erred it had beene more Christian-like to haue confuted him by priuate conference But seeing his doctrine hath the consent of most of the learned of our times and is so fortressed with Scripture and reason as heere you see it wanteth all excuse of modestie to handle him in open audience before such a multitude in such sort as M. Chalfont did and you confirmed in action though not in words For my part I am and will be on his side till I heere better reason from you Which when it commeth it shal carie me to anie truth that you can proue Further I wil not wagge the bredth of a naile If you can plainelie without cloak and colour confute my reasons and confirm your owne I promise you to turne my song If otherwaies I hope you will bee as good as that word which you past in the pulpite before so manie witnesses If you will satisfie mee you must answere me by writing For spoken words passe faster away then my dull senses can digest the reasons I wrote this in Latine because I wold not haue it vnderstood of the common sort I translated it into Englishe at the sute of a Gentleman that lay heer the last spring That copie by some negligence went farther abroad then I was willing I left it with a freend or two to deliuer it to you when I went in Scotland They conferring together delayed it till my returne least I
haue taught the trueth let not Hume nor Hill iudge but the learned of the â—niversiâ—ies For as Paule saith 1. Cor. 14. 32. The spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophetes That is the labors of the learned men are to be iudged of the learned The God of patience and consolation giue vs grace that we may be like minded one towards another according to Christ Iesus that we may with one minde one mouth glorifie God the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ Rom. 14. 5. 6. To whome bee all honour glorie world without end Amen An answere to the conclusion IF you had been the man that you protested in the pulpite and I promised my selfe when I wrote there was good hope that my answere might haue pleased you as wel as mee But now I see it impossible to please you except I could sing your song And truelie M. D. I could sing your song as soone as anie mans if it did tune as wel with the concent of scriptures as other mens doe But now you must pardon me I am too old to learn your discords The things in my answere which I hoped might haue wrought it favour with you was truth and reason But nowe I see the one is a stranger with you and the other a guest at will If they had beene of that account in your studie and so familiar with you as I hoped my poore answere had not found such hard handling nor vnreasonable railing there as it did You sent it home so ragged rent and torne that it coste mee a moneths work in the cold winter to mend his coat Now I haue quilted it better sent it to you once againe to challenge your promise and to tell you that your plaine reasons heere set downe why you could not recant are nullified and made of none effect like an obligation that is paied at the day appointed Wherefore seeing your argument drawne from the Act. 2. is answered sect 4. and sect 7. And seeing your place out of Syrach is 7. waies defaced sect 11. And seeing I haue proued my consent with the Scriptures in euerie place where I met with that accusation And seeing our sense of the 16. Psalm agreeth with Peter as wel as yours sect 7. And seeing in my answere to Psal 63. I dissent neither from David nor Calvine sect 8. And seeing in my answere to the place of Ezechiel I dissent neither from him nor Esay sect 9. And seeing I haue proued by the worde spirit that men living in the fleshe are not signified sect 12. And seeing now I haue set down your words according to your owne request and seeing your sermon at Chippenhame and this anwsere also hath confirmed mee and seeing mine own answere doth noâ— offer me nor anie of my freends sufficient cause to recant I hope now you are satisfied and that you will satisfie me and the populous congregation to whome you made your solemne promise of recantation in the pulpite at Chippenhame It was not a place to dissemble in and therefore let vs see that you meant as you spake The Lord giue you a hart pliable to his truth ANd heere to end as if M. D. had set the bent of his wit to shewe the vanitie of his worke he maketh the vainest bragge that euer grewe in a vaine heade There was good Reader if thou knowe it not one Ovid of all vaine poets the vainest Amongest manie filthie and vaine workes he wrote a book entituled Metamorphosis In it he sets the edge of all his wits which he had as sharp as euer had anie Poet to the painting of lies in all coloures wherein he shot so neare the marke that in comparison of it the lying legend commes not neere the whetstone by as manie myles as there be wordes in them both The conclusion of this worthie worke M. D. hath pasted to his hel as most agreable to that argument Iamque opus exegi quod nec Iouis ira nec ignis Nec potâ—rit ferrum nec edax abolere vetustas In which Ovid looking back into the worke of his owne wit grew into such loue with the finenesse of his owne conceits that he doubted not to deâ—ie his owne imagined God Iuppiter Now that thou mightest see gentle reader that M. Doctor did thinke of his owne worke as well as Ovid coulde of his hee brusteth out in the same brag In which if he meane Ovids Idole by this Iuppiter it is heathnishe if the true God it is Hellishe That they that vnderstand not the latine may vnderstand it I haue thought not amisse to englishe it as neere the words as I can keeping the english meeter I haue at length made vp this work Which Iuppiter in raging fume With me with fire with edged sworde And cankering age cannot consume To it I may well answere out of another Poet. Quid dignum tanto fert hic promissor hiatis Parturiunt montes nascetur ridiculus mus That is What hath this vaunting bragger done Worth gaping mouth and lips so wide The groning Hill is brought a bed And out a sillie mous doth slide Huic latino carmine sic respondero Nondum est exactum ludit tua gloria ventos Ad sat a licta redi I am renovatur opus In cineres fumosque tui rediere labores Quod louis ignis agit quod Iovis irae facit Aliud Dicere sibellum mireris tartara coelo Foedera Dis stygius cum Ioue nulla colit Aliud Christum post stygios in tristi morte dolores Contendit stygias Hillus adisse domos Complexus vano nugas tricasque libello Provocat insanus tela manumque Iovis Errat fi tutum Iovis ira acheronta putarit Non coquit aeternis iguibus ille stygem FINIS CERTAINE PLACES QVOted out of Master Doctors owne Authours vpon the three principal places where-upon he buildeth this his opinion wherein thou maist see gentle Reader how small cause hee hath to bragge of so many old and new writers I leaning altogether on the word of trueth haue not qâ—â—ted them in the treatise it selfe counting them vnsufficient witnesses in such a cause wherein they haue neither reveilâ—d nor experimented knowledg yet because I would not defraud theâ— of their judgments I haue thought good to set them downe heere The first place is thou vvouldest not leaue my soule in 〈◊〉 nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption vvhere M. Dâ—ctâ—r takes 〈◊〉 to be hell vve the generall condition of them vvhich are departed this life MOLERVS caeterum movent hic questionemâ—â— descensu Christi ad inferos quaÌ„ prudens omitto cum ex hoc lâ—co id satis certo evinci non possit Felinu non deseres ammam meâ—Ì„sepuâ—â—hro id est non destitues me vt anima mea morti concedat Per sheâ—l enim quod sepulchrum significat vt in Psal 6. vers 6. d. xâ— statum conâ—â—tionem mortuorum hoc est inferos scriptâ—ra transnominare
That must bee one whosoeuer be the other 328 A degree is an ascense from one step to another His conversing on the earth was no ascense and therfore no degree at all 329 This degree in the aire was not a step of his glorie for he neither fastned his seete nor made any abode there 330 You say much and prooue little 331 One ascension hath but one beginning calaed terminus a quo 332 That pertaineth to his burial not the descending that Paule speaketh of in this place 333 Not but such eies as yours 334 Patitio principij that is the place we stand vpon It maketh nothing for you except we will grant you your will without reason One motion hath but one beginning one ending Of contrarie motions if the mouer be one the beginning of the one is the end of the other and contrariwise the end of the one is the beginning of the other The paralogisâ—nes of this sect 335 That note is against your self read and see 336 That note sheweth this place to be spoken of them that giueth bread to the hungrie drinke to the thirstie c. 337 The verse you referre vs to in Math. speaketh of the mercifull not of the wicked 338 You are much deceaued 339 What synode is that I was neuer of anie synode nor worthie to rule a synode 340 Vntruth see the aunswere 341 Wordes 342 It is trew of all parts y â— can consiste after separatioÌ„ 343 But if you will proue the thing you vndertake to proue you must proue that wher the soule is not the maÌ„ is not 344 That followes not 345 Heer M. D. will correct magnificat It is in the English Bibles I am not yet ascended and that he thinks not to be of the praeter-perfect tense and therefore he mends it I haue not c. This had ben well found of a boy in his accidents but a D. shuld haue knowne that amatus sum is the preter-perfect time as well as amatus fui 346 I know no man saith so 347 Nor that and therfore these two are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 348 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 349 You had need of a cable to binde this therefore to the premisâ—es 350 It will not follow see the answere 351 I brought examples of my own general maximes I dallied not with your argumeÌ„t 352 I neuer thought it see the answere 353 It will neuer follow by this reason 354 That is a foule name 355 As good Logicians as D. Hill Ramus and al his followers thinke the soule to be an integrall parte Partes integrisunt partes integrales anima corpus sunt partes integri scili cet hominis Er go anima corpus sunt par â—es integrales hominis 356 I know nor what you mean by a divisible part If a part that may consist being deuided from the whole I hope you will confesse the soule to be such 357 This is a new terme of arte 358 Not so see the answere 359 No errour at all see the aunswere 360 The man alone you would say 361 This proof needed not 362 If you could follow the question all the proofes in this section should bend to make your assertion good that this saying of Christ to Marie Ioh. 20. doth proue that his soule had not beene in heauen when he was risen againe 363 Parergon 364 By this it appeareth that Irenaeus speakerh not of the hell of the damned but of the state of the dead Heer I follow Ramus 365 Such a word out of your mouth might haue lifted vp my hart if you had not said section the 7. that I wanted either science or conscience or both Howsoeuer your wordes agree I hope I was the same wheÌ„ you wrot that when you wrote this 366 Then I will tell you the same that all Christians haue to know God defend his truth The Paralogismes in the D. reply 367 If my coÌ„mission be warrantable this hope may hoppe 368 Heere you promise to proue 369 And heere you fall to confute so soone you haue forgot your self 370 You alter the conclusion I said that the Scriptures neuer giueth death to Christ but for his whole passion which thing you should confute if you could answere mee 371 Still you change the question though quickned went necessarilie before his resurrection I neuer said that it signifieth it 372 I brought reason for the things I said and you answere al with that cannot be 373 See the answere in the rejoynder 374 If you can proue that Peter said so I will proue that he was like an Irish man that comming out of a battell boasted that hee had killed fiue men in the feet that wanted the heads before he came at them 375 What then 376 Is there no thing els to apply these things to or is no repetition tollerable 377 How doth this for proue anie of these things that you haue said 378 Betwene these two * markes ther is a most disâ—rdeâ—ed hyperbalon of manie wordes not two lines together directed to one purpose 379 Peter sheweth not 380 This is foisted in the text 381 That proâ—veth not that spirit is the soule heere 382 You beg the question 383 He suffered the death of both You leaue the word of the text mortified and choses a word that taketh away the duble death which he suffered this is pelting with the text 384 True but who saith so 385 And wer all the soules separated from their bodies in the hell of the damned that he could not bee amongst such soules but in hell 386 Truelie I see it not 387 I see not that neither 388 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 implyerh the Participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cannot stand without it Wherfore if you had cast an eie that way you would haue translated it that nowe are in prison 389 You dream we translat it not by the which 390 And you did you wold lose your labour 391 You said thâ—t no verb of motion could be giveÌ„ to the Deitie fol. 11 pag. 2. That I hope you are gone from Now you haue no reason why this word caÌ„not pertaine to the Deitie but because it cannot pertaine to the Deitie which is as if a man would fay D. H. could not get a Bishoprick because D. H. coulde not get a Bishopricke 392 That is not of necessitie neither 393 Are they the fitter for that to speak improperlie of God 394 Why maÌ„ is the old testament Apocrypha with you you are a nice man 395 Katabaino and erchomaâ— be verbs of moâ—ioÌ„ as well as poreuomai 396 Eltho I neuer red nor you neither in the present tense 397 How can this place proue that Iohn translateth not IARAD heere 398. Eleutho is out of vse You shame your self 399 This place proueth your translating of IARAD as the other doth And heere you may mark that erchesâ—ai is spoken of the manhoodas well as poreuesthai and so by your reason erchesthai