himselfe his good Friend his Lord and Master the King of Saints and King of Kings the mighty Potentate the sole and only head and Lawgiver and Governour of his Church I say if he had not been in very great haste indeed and giddy withall in his brain or in some distraction He would have taken notice of Christ and have thought him and his blessed Apostles and seventy Disciples and those likewise that were baptized by John with Christs Mother Brethren and Sisters worthy to be esteemed a formed Church or Churches yet he and his brethren passe by them all saying we take no notice of them as formed into a Church or churches so that it is no wonder they at this day take no notice of our Churches and that they absolutely deny them to be formed into a church or churches after the New Testament forme when they do the same to all the beleevers in Christs time Surely that Subject that should passe by his King and Soveraign and all his retinue and Courtiers and take no notice of him and them and should yeild him no reverence would be thought crased in his brain especially if he should in a slighting manner say He tooke no notice of them And all men that should hear such an expression from him would not onely judge such an one a very unbred man and an uncivill fellow but that deservedly he ought to be taught better manners And without doubt a King that should understand of such a Subject if he at any time had need of his favour would reply unto him Sir you woud take no notice of me and my servants go now to those for help that you think worthy to be taken notice of As the Lord said unto the Israelites who when they were oppressed by their cruell enemies and came then flying unto him for his assistance Go saith he to your gods that in your prosperity yee served and seek help from them And truly if the businesse be seriously considered this my brother Burtons and his associates dealing with Christ and his Disciples and Followers is not altogether unlike the dealing of the Israelites with the Lord at least in words For in plain termes they say we take no notice of them as formed into a church or churches so that Christ and his Disciples are very little beholding to those of the congregationall way Certainly the man was in very great haste when he uttered these words or exceedingly distemperd in his brain for otherwise Christ had been worthy to have been taken notice of if his followers had not Our Saviour speaks of some that at the last day shall say unto him Lord Lord have we not preached in thy Name and in thy Name have we not done wondrous works Mat. 7. ver 22 23. To whom Christ saith he will reply Depart from me I know you not And doubtlesse if my brother Burton and his complices deeply repent not of these their words and of all their evill dealing in seducing and mis-leading of the poor people and of making rents and schismes in Church and State but shall still persevere in the errour of their wayes and will not yet take notice of those multitudes baptized by John the Baptist and Christs Disciples and of Christ himselfe and his Followers nor of their brethren at this day through all the Reformed churches as formed into a Church or Churches it is to be feared that whatsoever both he and those of his party shall pretend As that they have preached in his name and done wondrous works in gathering of new churches and preaching up the congregationall way and publishing of new truths and setting up of new lights and placing Christ upon his Throne I say whatsoever they shall in this kinde pretend Except they all repent of this their wickednesse and uncharitable dealing towards all their Christian Brethren it is to be feared that Christ will say to them as he professeth he will say to the others I know ye not depart from me ye that worke iniquity and they all likewise perish For what can any man that hath not resigned his understanding think lesse of this so weighty a businesse but that Christ may say unto them at that day You have taught it in your congregations and printed in your bookes set forth by authority by all your consents and that upon deliberation that you take no notice of all those multitudes that were baptized by John and my Disciples to be formed into a Church or Churches These will he say are your owne words and that in capitall letters nay you deny them to be Christians for so J. S. speaketh page 8 and 9. in the name of all the brethren giving many reasons there to the contrary asserting that by the baptisme of John they were not made Christians much lesse cast into a church mould according to the New Testament forme and least of all that they were all Members of one Christian church at Jerusalem These are his expressions For which he hath been much applauded by all of that fraternity who usually say of him when he rideth through the streets there goeth he that beat up Doctor Bastwicks quarters approving of this good worke of his in unchristianing all those that beleeved in mee and were baptized by the Ministry of my servant John the greatest Prophet that ever was borne of woman and sent by me and my father to baptize them And of Mr. Burton they never speak but in high praises blessing God that he hath answered Bastwicks Book which he writ in defence and maintenace of my honour and for the reputation of all that beleeved in me and were baptized in my name So that all those books that were set forth by those of the congregationall way to my dishonour and the disrepute of my followers are approved of by you all and in them you say you take no notice of those multitudes that were baptized by John as formed into a church or churches Now amongst those that were baptized by John I was one and my Disciples and my Mother and my Brethren c. So that you slight us all and take no notice of us as formed into a Church or churches that is in plain words you are ashamed of us and deny us Now those that are ashamed of me and deny me before men and take no notice of me and my Disciples and of my Brethren and Sisters and Mother and of those that beleeved in me and followed me whiles I was upon the earth to be formed into a church or churches I will be ashamed of them and deny them and take no notice of them before my Father in Heaven to be formed into a church or churches For he that despiseth my Disciples and my Followers despiseth me and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me Yea whosoever shall despise one of these little ones that beleeve in me it were better that a milstone were hanged about his neck and that he were cast into
of beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem and they were inhabitants there For the place where these Scribes and high Priests were and where Christ then was and where all those people were was in Ierusalem and all the people well known to the Rulers and Pharisees to be Inhabitants there So that all men now may see the futility and vanity of Mr Knollys his denyall of my arguments and may also behold the force and power of truth which asserteth That there were more beleevers in Jerusalem then could all meet in any one place and that in Christs time unlesse a world of beleevers and those inhabitants can meet together in any one place or congregation to injoy all acts of worship to edification which is a grollery yea madnesse to suppose or think And this shal serve for answer to what Mr Knollys out of his impious ignorance had to reply against my arguments for the enervating of them And now I come to I. S. his answer to all my foregoing arguments by which he would perswade the poor ignorant people That there was not such a number of Beleevers in Ierusalem but that they might all meet in one place For this must necessarily be the scope of his discourse or else it is nothing to the purpose or against my arguments which were to prove There were more beleevers in Jerusalem and that in Christs time then could possibly meet together in any one Congregation to partake in all Ordinances The reader may remember that in his former reply he seemed not to doubt concerning the number of those that were baptized onely he denyed that those that were baptized by Iohn were Christians and that they were cast into a Church mould after the New Testament forme much lesse that they were members of one Christian Church at Jerusalem these are his own words and by this hee thought to overthrow that argument Now here he useth another method tacitly denying the Minor of all my Syllogismes and the reason of his denyall is because as he speaketh I made false musters he thinks me it seemes like the Independents who would perswade the simple that all are Independent and amongst other things he saith that I gave the Independents occasion shrewdly to suspect my ignorance But I will set down his whole babble at larg and in his owne termes and words and his full answer to all my last arguments as it is page 9 10. of his Pamphlet His words are these But note saith he an absurdity in the sequell of the discourse where the Doctor having got a multiplying glasse in his hand goes on to make strange discoveryes of the increase of Christian believers pag. 36. he tells us that Christ made many more Disciples and Beleevers then John and added dayly unto the Church that was then in Ierusalem such as should be saved Here 's two Paradoxes First that Christ made more Disciples then John Out of whom should hee make them when as Iohn had swept all along with him as you affirme before page 32. and not taking it Synecdochically what ever you determine of it here Secondly that Christ should adde dayly to the Church that was in Ierusalem is not this a marvellous anticipation and mistake to apply that which was done by the Disciples after Christs ascension Acts 2. last unto the ministry of Christ himselfe and yet in the sequell you reckon this to the Apostles also expresly page 56. Judge if here be not false musters And let me tell you you give us occasion shrewdly to suspect your ignorance to say no worse to talke of a Church in Jerusalem besides the nationall church of the Jewes in the life time of our Saviour Thus hee If I should discover all the errors that are in this reply I might make a very large volume but in regard that all learned men will easily perceive the vanity childishnesse and horrid impiety of the man in the very reading of it I shall not be so larg in my answer as otherwise I had thought to have been and yet before I come to it I cannot but complain of the dishonesty of the man that thus curtaileth my arguments every where not plainly setting them down that the people may see my reasons but this is the ordinary way of his disputing who conceales the truth from the ignorant and simple that he may the better poyson them with his errors and noveltyes After the very same manner dealeth my brother Burton with me as we shall see in its due place who passing by all my arguments not so much as mentioning any one of them makes a rombobombo Syllogisme of his own which as I suppose he fetcht out of the howling wildernesse of America and then with Phocions hatchet that carnall weapon he fights with his own shaddow and vapors like a conquerour as I. S. doth here But now for answer briefly I affirme that I. S. in confuting of my arguments by which I proved that there were more converted by Christ and his Disciples and the Apostles Ministry in Jerusalem then by Iohn the Baptist and therefore that they could not all meete in one place or Congregation to injoy all Acts of worship I say in his confuting of my arguments he doth not so much dispute against me as he doth against Saint Iohn the Evangelist and the very Scripture for the discoveries I made by my multiplying glasse as he ridiculously speaketh of the increase of Christian believers were no false musters as he childishly scibleth for I discovered only and declare unto all men that increase of Christian believers in Ierusalem that the holy Word of God asserteth Iohn the 4. where it is recorded vers 1. 2. That Christ made more Disciples and believers then Iohn and therefore added daily to the Church that was then in Jesusalem such as should be saved for Christ came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel Now the making of more Disciples is the adding of more to the church and this the Scripture holdeth out not only to me but to all intelligible Christians and therefore it was no error in me to affirme the same So that whiles I. S. laboureth to confute my Arguments he fights indeede against the Evangelist that affirmeth that Christ made mo Disciples then Iohn But sayeth he here are two Paradoxes First that Christ made mo Disciples then Iohn The second that Christ should adde dayly to the Church that was then in Ierusalem These in I. S. his opinion are paradoxes that is matters of Ludibry in his dialect Yet both these truthes I spake of are cleere out of the Word of God and therefore whiles he wounds me he vulnerateth Saint Iohn and blasphemeth for he giveth the Spirit of God the lye and denyeth the Scripture that asserts that Christ made mo Disciples then John and therefore added more unto the church for of unbelievers and of enemies they were made Disciples Christians and friends and therefore taken out of the world and
and all men and no women and another consisting of three thousand more of which he makes a scruple saying that amongst them there might be some women So that if the five thousand were all men and there was yet another company of three thousand more besides amongst which there might be some women as Master Knollys saith then this three thousand was a distinct company from the former now three thousand amongst the which there might be some women and five thousand all men makes up full eight thousand so that Master Knollys by his whibling againe and againe Volens nolens confirmes my assertion that the full number of those converts by these two miracles Sermons was eight thousand and for ought any thing can be said to the contrary they were all men besides women and children and this is all he gaines by his fond caviling and contention to prove himselfe a very jangler and one like that wicked servant that condemns himself by his own mouth And this shall suffice to have spake for proofe of the number viz that there were eight thousand besides women and children And now I come to his second reason by which he labours to evince and prove they were not converts beleevers which I hope to make appeare to be not only groundlesse but to be most impious and wicked as giving the Spirit of God the lye and indeede destructive to their own tenents and principles His words are these These five thousand saith he are onely called men and not converts not believers for howbeit many of them hearing the word believed yet it is not said the five thousand men beleeved And the truth is the text well considered only holds forth that the number of men was made up five thousand Thus Master Knollys For my owne particular I stand astonished at the vanity senslesnes and wickednesse of the man for his words are not only against the light of reason and the judgement of all the learned and the very opinion of the Independents themselves who hold that they were all converts and beleeves but they are contradictory to the Spirit of God giving the holy Ghost the lye as I said before for the Scripture saith notwithstanding all the resistance and opposition made by the enemies of the Gospell to hinder the work of the Ministry and notwithstanding all the persecution that was raysed against them for this very end I say notwithstanding all their indeavour the holy Ghhst saith that many of them which heard the word believed and the number of men was five thousand Here are two truths evidently laid downe contrary to Master Knollys his errors The first is that they are not only called men but beleevers for saith the Scripture they that heard the word believed Secondly the number of those that believed is there in terminis set downe to be five thousand and the number of the men viz. that believed saith the text was five thousand So that from this testimony of Scripture and from all my arguments deduced from thence these two conclusions do follow evidently The first that Master Knollys is a very wicked man that thus at pleasure can give the Spirit of God the lye and oppose the truth it selfe upon all occasions The second that there were more believers in the Church of Ierusalem then could possibly all meete in any one place and congregation to partake in all acts of worship and that in its very infancy for here we read of eight thousand more cnoverts besids women and children for the Scripture maketh mention of no women nor children newly added to all those that were converted by Iohn the Baptist and by the ministry of Christ and his Disciples in Christs life time and all they were innumerable for all Jerusalem went out unto them and were baptised besides the many other thousands that the Scripture recordeth were daily added to these all which I say could not possibly meete in one congregation to edification And the truth of these conclusions I am most assured will appeare so cleare in the judgement of all the learned as they wil gather that Mr. Knollys his complices that thus sottishly oppose it ought severely to be punished for these their wicked practices who for the upholding of their own errors and for their base lucre and gain for worldly ends care not what they say or do to the disturbance of church State for the seducing of the poor people and hindring of the work of reformation so much to be desired But before I passe on to Master Knoylls his other Cavills I shall desire the reader a little to consider what I have yet in this place to say to him These five thousand saith he are called men and not converts not believers for howbeit many of them hearing the Word believed yet it is not said the five thousand men believed And the truth is the text well considered only holds forth that the number of men was made up 5. thousand From hence I gather if these words of his may be credited that it may be a very well formed Church after the new testament forme for this Church at Ierusalem was such an one by the confession of all the Independents although they be not all visible Saints but many of them unbeleevers Iewes and Infidels and be not true converts and that for the moulding up of a true Church after the new testament forme it is not absolutely necessary that they should be all visible Saints for here Master Knollys says they were mixt good and bad together it is not said saith he the five thousand men believed and yet they were all members so that by his doctrine some of them were unbelievers and notwithstanding they were all moulded up into a Church body so that they were not all visible Saints and yet the true Saints and believers made no separation from the other but they all continued together in Church fellowship both Saints and infidels and communicated in all Ordinances Now whether or no Master Knollys by this doctrine of his doth not fight against the opinion of all his brethren and utterly overthrow all the new fabricke of Independency I leave it not onely to the judgement of the learned of the congregationall way if there be any such but to the censure of the seven new churches of which he is one of the pastours and an other Saint Diotrephes who if they do not punish him for this his Grollery I will say they deserve censure and punishment themselves But this is not all I have here to say to Mr Knollys I have this also to adde that if any credit may be given to his words there will then be no certainty in any thing the Scripture relateth unto us For he saith That those five thousand that were added to the Church are called men and not Converts and Beleevers and howbeit many of them believed yet it is not said the five thousand believed So that if he may
for we see what a tumult a few zealots of the Law by stirring up the people against Paul made in the Temple Now if all the Beleevers in Jerusalem besides women and children had met together and some of Pauls enemies had beene there also and suggested to the people that hee was an enemy of the Law of Moses what a confusion may all men conceive would there then have beene Besides there was no one place could have contained them all and therefore Master Knollis his prattle is not only against all reason and the very opinion of all orthodox Interpreters but indeed against the judgement of the learnedst of his owne party who by multitude in this as in many other places understand the more eminent and chiefest of beleevers and men of gravity and wisedome to manage a busines and not a confused company as this man saith so that what I have replyed in way of answer I perswade my selfe it sufficiently satisfieth all well grounded Christians of the truth of my first Position to wit that ther were more beleevers in Ierusalem then could all meet in any one place or a few to communicate in all acts of worship Yet before I passe on to shew the confusednesse and senselessenesse of this Master Knollys his following discourse I thinke it fit out of his owne Interpretation of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to frame an Argument for the corroborating of the truth His words are these Although the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doe sometime signifie ten thousand yet not alwayes but for some great number which cannot suddainly be told I will not quarrell his English and the manner of his expression though it is none of the best as in many other places lest I should seeme to be like him and his abbertors to trifle about words But thus I argue out of his words Where there was not only some great number of beleevers that could not suddainly be told but many such great somes there they could not all meet together in one place or Congregation to communicate in all acts of worship But in the Church of Jerusalem there was not onely some great number of beleevers which could not suddainly be told but many such great somes Ergo they could not all meet together in any one place or Congregation to partake in all the acts of worship for the Major it is evident yea so apparent by the very light of reason that no judicious Christian can deny it for all men know that ten thousand may suddainly be told if five thousand may suddainly be sed and they likewise know that ten thousand cannot meet together in any one place or roome or in any one Congregation to communicate in all the Ordinances this I say all men know by the very light of naturall understanding and as by daily experience they are taught much more by the same reason they will be convinced that many such great numbers cannot meet together in one Congregation to communicate in all Ordinances all this the very light of reason suggests to any man and therefore cannot be denyed so that the Major of my Syllogisme is undeniable and for the Minor besides the holy Scripture that asserts there were many ten thousands wee have Master Knollys his concession that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometime signifieth ten thousand but alwayes is taken for some great number that cannot suddainly be told and the word of God saith there were many Myriads that is many such great numbers therefore by Master Knollys his owne interpretation of the word it followeth that there were more Beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem then could all meet in any one place or a few to partake in all acts of worship And now I will briefly examine his following discourse though it be little to the purpose the vanity of the which having been so often againe and againe discovered in the forgoing treatice And then I will come to my brother Burtons answer Master Knollys his words are these Neither can the Doctor make good from those Scriptures he produceth pag. 62. to wit Acts the 1. vers 21. 22. Chapter 6. ver 2. 4. and chapter the 8. 1. that there were almost an hundred Preachers and Ministes besides the twelve Apostles in the Church of Ierusalem c. for answer in a few words I boldly affirme what the Scripture teacheth me viz that before the persecution we read of in the 8. chap. v. 1. and before the dispersion and scattering of the believers besides the Apostles there were in the Church of Ierusalem almost an hundred Preachers and Ministers And for this the Word of God is cleare and evident as in Acts the 1. verse 21. 22. Wherefore saith Saint Peter of these men which have companyed with us all the time the Lord Iesus went in and out amongst us beginning from the baptisme of Iohn unto that same day that he was taken up from us must one be ordayned to be a witnesse with us of the resurrection and they appointed two Ioseph called Barsabas and Matthias Out of the which words these insuing truths doe necessarily follow first that they that were assembled here with Peter and the other Apostles were ancient Disciples for saith the text they were such as had companyed with the Apostles all the time the Lord Iesus went in and out amongst them beginning from the Baptisme of Iohn c. and therefore must needs be such as had been diligent Schollers all that time in Christs Schoole and such as were well instructed in all Christian principles as is easily gathered out of the very words for any one of them were thought fit in the Apostles judgement to succeede Iudas in his place and to be an Apostle in regard that they had heard and seene all things Christ both spake and did till his death and ascension for otherwise they could not have been witnesses of all things to his resurrection All this I say in the first place doth necessarily follow Secondly this truth also doth insue out of the forgoing words that either all those men were Ministers or the most of them for in expresse termes it is related that they had accompanied the Apostles the time the Lord Iesus went in and out amongst them beginning from the Baptisme of Iohn untill Christs ascension Now amongst those that conversed with the Apostles besids Iohn schollers Christ had seventy Disciples all Ministers which he sent out two by two into all Cities to preach and to worke wonders who came back again to him rejoycing that the Divells were subject unto them and they stil wayted upon Christs Ministry we reade also of many of Iohns Disciples that came unto Christ all which were Ministers likewise and such as preached and baptized and all these were with Peter and the rest of the Apostles at this time continued with them till the persecution for we reade of no departure of them or separation till then and all these were men