have them follow him no further then he followed Christ 1. Cor. 11.1 But your Ministers in their actions and practise do declare and say unto the people that they will not owne Jesus Christ for the only Prophet or his Church and therefore they teach the people to worship the Lord with Ceremonies and Wil-worship as Capping Cringing and Duking clean contrary to the seccond Commandement and also with Holy Gâ—â—ments as they call them and with booke prayer translated out of the Popes cursed Masse-booke as worthy Dr. Eustaricke doeth in the third part of hâ—s Letany declare and prove by which they teach the people to leave the naked simplicity of that worship which Jesus Christ hath instituted in his New Testament John 4.23.25 saying to the woman of Samaria the hower cometh and now is when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth for the Father seeketh such to worship him for God is a spirit and they that worship rim must worship him in spirit and in truth and tie and bring the people to worship God with a worship which is meerly and altogether sinfull mens inventions and foolish devises which worship is odious detestable hatefull abominable to God Esa 1.11.12.13 66.3.4 Jer. 6.19.20 25.6.44.21.22.23 Amos 5.21.22 Mat. 15.8.9 Marke 7.7.8 Col. 2. So that I may truly say of the Church of England and the worshippers therein as the spirit of God said of Judah in the second of Esa 8.9 their Land also is full of Idols they worship the workes of their owne hands that which their owne fingers have made and the meane man boweth downe and the great man humbleth himselfe therefore forgive them not 3. Againe in the third place as Jesus Christ is the only Preist and Porphet of his Church so he is the only King and Lawgiver of it and to it and none else Psal 2. 149.19 Esa 9.6.7 83.20 for the Lord is our Judge the Lord is our Lawgiver saith the Church of God the Lord is our King he will save us now the Apostles by their ministery taught this to the Saints and Churches of God That Jesus Christ is the only King and Lawgiver of and to his Church vnto whose Lawes and Septer alone and to none other they must stoope submit and yeild unto Ephes 1.21.22 2.22.23 Col. 2.2.3.6.7 Heb. 3. begin 20.28.29 12.25 But your Ministers by their Ministrery teach the people to rebell and bid defiance against the Septer Lawes and Commands of Christ as though he had not had wisedome and power enough to have erected and governed his owne spirituall Kingdome and to have instituted sufficient Offices as voyd places for his people by virtue of his Lawes to elect and chuse Officers to administer therin for the building of them up till they come to perfect then in the knowledge of God and unto the measure of the fulnes of Christ contrary to what the Apostle affirmes by the spirit of God Ephes 4.11.12.13 and therefore they teach the people to run to Antichrist and seeke for more Officers Away with such horrible wickednes as this which your Bishops Preists and Deacens those litle toes of Antichrist dayly and howerly perpetrate and commit as if so be Jesus Christ had not been so faithfull in his House as Moses was in his and as though he had not had so sufficient a care of his Church under the Gospell as Moses had under the Law and therefore they goe unto Antichrist Christs professed enemie and there would teach the people to seeke for Lawes for the governing of the Church of God under the Gospell rakeing them out of his cursed counsels Bookes of Articles and diabolicall Traditions and in their doing of this which is their constant practises they teach flat Rebellion and High Treason againg the Septer and Kingdome of the everlasting Son of God who will have his church governed by his owne Lawes which he instituted and left recorded in his last Will and Testament which he hath bequeathed to his church commanding them as they will answer it before his dreadfull appearing to observe and keep them strictly without violation in the least and also by his owne Officers therein expressed who are only five who are to be permanent officiating in personall presence and Being for the freedome of his church namely Pastor Teocher Elder Deacon and Widdow Rom. 12.7.8 Phil. 1.1 1 Tim. 3. 5. chap. But they teach the people to goe to the Lawes and Officers of Antichrist which are a great multitude in number as Patriarkes Primates Metrapolitanes Arch-Bishops Lord Bishops Deanes Chancellours Vicar generall Prebends Doctours of the Civill Law Doctours of Divinity Proctours Registers Arch-Deacons Sub-Deacons Preists Jesuites Parish-preists Parsons Vicars Curates Cannons Petty Cannons Chanters Vestrey men Church wardens Sworne men Side men Parish clarkes damnable and divelish Pursevants Summers Apparritours with a great many more And therefore in this respect doe not by their Ministery accomplish the same ends that the Ministery of the Apostles did and so by your owne grounds are no true Ministers And aâ— for those two things of conversion and confirmation or building up in the wayes of God which you speake of if you meane by conversion an opening of the eyes to turne them from drunkenes to light and from the power of Satan unto God Or if you meane by conversion a deliverance from the power of darkenes and a translation into the Kingdome of the Son of God both of which the Apostles Ministery did accomplish in the hearts and lives of Gods people Asts 26.18 Col. 1.13 I absolutely deny it that your Ministery in England doth this And therefore I desire you to declare what you meane by conversion and prove your definition by the holy Scripture and also prove that you in England are so converted which when you have done I shall further answer you by Gods assistance And as for their building them up in the wayes of God as all true Sheepheards ought to build up their sheepe as Acts 20. 1 Pet. 5. yet I deny it that your ministers doe it for how can they build them vp in that which they themselves are ignorant of and enemies unto for as Jannes and Jambres which withstood Moses so doe these men also resist the truth being men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth 2 Tim. 3.8 and doe feed you with huskes and chaffe being neither willing to embrace it themselves nor to let those that would as their constant preaching and speaking against the truth of God and the Kingdome of his Son doth witnesse And in the conclusion of this your Argument you say when the Separation can prove conversion in an Antichristian Church you will say more to them this belongs to you to prove for we doe not plead for Antichrist but against him and all his And therefore have I taken the paines by the Word of God and demonstrable Argument grounded therevpon to prove the Church
AN ANSWER TO NINE ARGUMENTS Written by T. B. WHEREIN IS PLAINLY FROM THE SCRIPTURES shewed the weakenesse of his Arguments whereby he undertakes to prove both the Church and Ministery of England true as likewise describing the nature and properties of a true Church and Ministery Written long since by that faithfull Servant of God and his Countrey John Lilburne Leiftenant Collonell And now published for further good by a well willer to Him and the Truth Gal. 4.17 They zealously affect you but not well they would exclude you that you might affect them 1 John 4.1 Beloved beleive not every Spirit but try the Spirits whether they be of God because many false Prophets are gon out into the world LONDON Printed in the Yeare of our Lord 1645. IOHN LILBURNE AETAT SVAE 23. An o 1641. G Glo fecit Gaze not vpon this shaddow that is vaine But rather raise thy thoughts a higher straine To GOD I meane who set this young-man free And in like straits can eke deliuer thee To the Reader Christian Reader THe providence of God bringing to my hands this ensuing Matter the Author of which thou well knowest if thou beest not a stranger in Israel is famous in Sufferings both for the cause of Christ in holding him forth to be the only King and Lawgiver of his Church against that Prelaticall faction which stood in opposition to the same as likewise in standing to defend the priviledges of the Kingdom whereof he is a member with his liberty estate and life as counting nothing dear to himselfe that he might render himselfe faithfull to Christ in giving to him that which was his due and unblameable to Caesar to give unto him that which is his resolving by the strength of Christ that although others that have seemed to suffer for Christ should deny him and plead for Baal yet to stand in his integrity my selfe knowing him to be the same that he was standing a member of such a Church which he maintaines to be the only spouse of Jesus Christ I thought good to publish to thy vow that which long since was written by him to that end when he was in the depth of his sorrowes or rather sufferings close prisoner in Irons in the Fleet is being an Answer to some Arguments which by an Opposite to the truth were then written wherein is unmasked those unsound grounds by which a false church and ministery is pleaded for as likewise describing from the Authority of the Scriptures the nature and properties both of true church and ministery And if it should be Objected by any that what is here published is not usefull to us the Prelats being now thrown down and a Reformation like to be established agreable to the Word of God To which Answer may be made that if it were so surely it would put an end to all contest of this nature For what is that Reformation the Word holds out but only the men should not Lord it over each others consciences but to serve each other in love and labour in the use of those meanes God hath appoynted to informe one an other as knowing it is the worke of the Lord Jesus alone as to bring Soules to himselfe so also to enlighten Soules in the knowledge of the truth as it pleaseth him and not men by banishments Chaines or imprisonments to doe it as the Prelates have done and the Presbyters in Scotland at this day doe But such a Reformation except God by a mighty hand interpose is like to be no other then a scourge to the States and as contrary to truth in the pure nature of it as the other although it have wore appearance of truth which will he plainly manifested to those whose eyes the Lord shall open to helpe to see and ezamine what in this ensuing Discourse is said there be two great evils which frequently are apt to beare-sway in the hearts of those that professe Religion which is spirituall sluggishnes which is manifested in living vpon other mens light takeing all for Gospell which Learned men say without tryall witnesse Mr. Enoch Gray who hath forsaken the truth to embace this present world and that great God of the World selfe love that cup of gold in the hand of the whore is so sutable to selfe that rather then that shall be for gon all the glory of Jesus Christ shall be trampled under feet by them And in my observaâ—ion I have perceived three sorts of men glued to those evils The first is carnall Professours that can content themselves with a forme of godlines and therefore takes all for gould that glisters The other two are Clergie men and Lawyers who are filled with selfe love that like Herod and Pilate they both joyne together against Christ and his pure wayes and what should be the reason that those two should cleave so fast together to goe hand in hand to fight against Christ truly I know not unlesse they feare that if the truth of Christ take place alone that it will bring such a luster with it as to appeare so perspicuous and cleare upon the faces of all men as thereby to roote the one out of their Calling and the other out of their Tythes and thereby spoyle all their glory and greatnes at one blow and I hope the wisedome of this present Parliament will see that such as that which now goeth by oppression into their purses may be turned to make vp the Kingdomes losses which may with much ease be done if they consult with God and their neighbour Countrey the Sates of Holland but I shall leave that to their wisedomes and thee in thee perusall of this to the blessing of the most High and if there be any thing in it that savours of harshnes to thee let it be looked at by thee as expressions of Resolution rather knowing that such a spirit hath been still manifest by him both in the cause of God and his Countrey And therefore I shall say no more but rest Thine in all services of love to his power M. N. AN ANSWEARE TO NINE ARGUMENTS of T. B. LOVING FRIEND TO satisfie your earnest desire to me I have put pen to paper to answeare the ungrounded Arguments of your Friend which you communicated unto me but to tell you my Judgment of them in few words They are of such Insufficiency and so ungroundedly compiled without all Authority of holy Scripture that I doe assure you if it had not been my promise to you to reply unto them I should not once more have spent my precious Time and Paines in a second view of them For in the laying downe of nine Arguments he hath not one Portion of Gods word to prove them all but only one and that is nothing pertinent to his purpose but runnes on most deceitfully to prove Logicke by Logicke Truly I am affraid he is too neer of kinne to the Prelate of Canterbury and Pope of Lambeth and the rest of his brother Bishops
would have her so confidently to beleive your Arguments without any proofe unto them from the Authority of the Word of God which is the only binder of the Conscience Indeed she hath but a blind Guide of you an ignorant Leader if she follow your guiding leading you will lead her into more Rebellion against Jesus Christ his Scepter and Kingdome and so bring misery inough upon her for Christ hath threatned to slay all those his enemies which will not have him to rule over them Luke 12.21 and if he dyed without mercy under two or three witnesses that rejected Moses Law of how much sorer punishment thinke you shall they be worthy of that reject the commandements of Jesus Christ as both shee and you do for the present therefore let her looke to it and take heed of giving to much credit to your Hereticall and Erronious sayings for are the things that you say of more authority then the sayings of Christ himselfe or his Apostles or the Angells of heaven that she must believe them before by the divine Scripture you have proved them truly you take more Authority upon you then Christ would doe for he would not have the Jews to beleeve him upon his bare sayings but the Scripture that did beare witnes of him Joh. 8.17.18 It is written in your Law saith he that the Testimony of two men is true non saith Christ I am one that beare witnesse of my selfe and my Father that sent me beares witnesse of me So that you see Christ would not have the Jews to beleeve him upon his bare sayings only but he brings his Father and the holy Scripture to beare witnesse what he is and then commands them to beleeve him Also Paull would not have the Galathians to beleeve either him or an Angell from Heaven but to hold them accursed if they bring any thing contrary to the Scripture Chap 1.19 but you would have your Friend to beleeve your Arguments and yet doth not bring two Portions of Scripture to prove them all therefore I againe advise her neither to beleeve you nor your sayings because there is no light of trueth in you seing that you goe not to the Law and the Testimony to prove that you say as you ought and should do Esay 8.20 therefore she is bound to reject your Arguments as Vngrounded Antichristian and Erronious and to Search the Scripture her selfe for that is it that truly testifies of Christ and of his waies Joh. 5.39 4 You would have her to remember the danger that will follow upon the neglect of them Your saying were very good if it were grounded upon the word of God but seing as I have already and will more fully make it appeare they are not I would have her remember the danger that will follow the observation of them which will be very great and terrible for the things that you would have her to give Eare unto will teach her to rebell against the voyce of God himselfe who hath commanded all his faithfull people and servants to give Eare to Christ only and alone in all things that pertaine to life and Salvation and his Worship and Service Act. 3.22.23 For Moses truly said unto the Fathers a Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your Brethren like unto me him shall yee hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you and it shall come to passe that every Soull that will not heare that Prophet shall be destroyed from among the People So you see what Doome the Scripture saith will befall all those that will not give Eare nor stoope unto all the Lawes of Christ as well for the governing of his Church as the Salvation of their Soules for Jesus Christ hath been as faithfull yea more faithfull in his House then Moses was in his under the Law Hebr. 3. who was strictly tied to make all things according to the patterne shewed him in the Mount yea even to the very Pinnes of the Tabernacle Exod. 25.9.40 and 26.30 and 27.9 Which Moses caused accordingly exactly to be made and accomplished Ex. 30.43 this Moses did but as a servant but Jesus Christ was faithfull in all things that pertains to the welfare of his Churrch under the Gospell as a sonne and none may adde or defract from that which he hath done and left in his last Will and Testament but now if she should give Fare to your Grounds she should declare and say in her actions that Jesus Christ hath not been so faithfull in his house or Church as Moses was in his which were to tell the Spirit of God he lyes therefore let her looke to the danger that will follow her keeping those things which you would have her to observe 5 In the fift and last place You would have her to goe to God by Prayer to make them Effectuall to her for her good but if she should doe so she should put up an unacceptable and sinfull prayer for the prayer that any puts up to him for the keeping and confirming them in their Errours is detestable and Odious to him but those things that you would have her to goe to God for that they might be Effectuall for her good are grosse Errours and therefore I affirme it is her sin if either she pray to be kept in them or doe not forthwith reject them Well but now to come to grapple with your strong Arguments and the first of them is thus framed Arg. 1 That People or Nation that is dayly within the voyce and call of God calling them to Repentance that so they may be saved that same is a true visible Church But the People generally of England are within the voyce of God calling upon them to repent and beleeve that so they may be saved Therefore the Church of England is a true visible Church Answ 1 This is the Frontispiece of your worke and in the laying of it downe you declare that you doe not in the least understand what the matter of a true Church is which is to consist of beleevers Acts. 2.41.47 and not of people uncalled to God and the knowledge of his trueth Act. 2.30.5.13 And this I will by the strenght of God fully prove by and by and therefore if the rest of your Arguments be no stronger then this they will prove no stronger to bind your opposers then the Philistims flaxen Cords were to bind Sampson who when he had a mind to be loosed from them they became as flax burnt with fire and just such are your Arguments no more able to hold off and keepe backe the trueth from being set at Liberty then Dellilahs greene Withes with which she tyed Sampson were able to keepe him bound that his Enemies might cease uppon him for he broke them as a Threed of Tow is broken when it toucheth the fire Judg. 16. 9. But now to the matter I absolutely deny your Argument And first for your Major I cannot but expresse
to those guifts and qualifications which the Apostle layes downe in the first of Timothy the 3. 5. chapters and the first or Titus then the Church hath authority to chuse them for her Officers Num. 8.9.10 Ezeck 33.2 Acts 1.23.6.3.5 14.24 but though they be never so fitted guifted and qualified yet they are not to take upon them to officiate in the Church of God by virtue of an Office before they have a true and lawfull Call from the Church who only and alone hath power from Christ her only King and Head to instate them into that Office and whereas before they were but members or private men as you in the Church of England call them and could not lawfully doe those actions that belong to a true Minister or Officer in the Church of God to doe yet now they may doe them upon grounded grounds for it is only their lawfull Call into their Office that puts a distinction betwixt them and the other members or Brethren of the Church as is plaine out of the first of the Acts where Joseph and Matthias were by the Apostles and Brethren set a part for the Apostleship and Joseph for any thing I know was as well fitted for the Office as Matthias was for the Church was not able to put a difference betwixt them which was the more fit but yet for all this they were not both Apostles but only Matthias who was lawfully chosen and immediatly called by God into the Office and then those actions that he did and Adminstrations that he administred was the execution of his Office so that it any should have questioned him whether he was an Apostle or no he would not runne to the Administration or Execution of his Office to prove himselfe a true Apostle but he would goe to his Call into his Office which was from God and which gave him a being in his Office and power to Officiate and doe those actions that he did and though he had nevâ—â— lived to have executed any of those actions that belonged to his Office yet he had been a true Apostle for all thae by virtue of his Call into his Apostleship So that I say to you of your Ministers it is not sufficient for them when they tre questioned about their Calling and put upon it to prove it whether it be from God or the Diuell the one of which it must needs be to runne to the Execution and Administration of their Office to prove the lawfullnesse of their standings in their Office but they should goe to the power and Authority that instituted them into their Office of Priesthood and prove it whether it be true or no which if they cannot doe I say they are all false and Antichristain Officers and Ministers which all Gods people are bound in Conscience to detest as the Divell and oppose to the utmost of their power and strength and therefore I put you upon it to prove if you can the lawfulnes of their standing for doe you thinke that they which are Antichrists Ministers have a greater priveledge of exempion from proving the lawfulnes of their Calling and Office when they are questioned then either that great Prophet Jihn the Baptist or Josus Christ the sonne of God and his Apostles had truly I see no Ground nor Reason for it unlesse you will say their bare word is of greater Authority then the words of the Eternall Sonne of God and his Apostles For first of all John the Baptist when he was questioned by the Scribes and Pharisees what he was he doeth not say It is sufficient that I doe the worke of a Prophet and therefore you need not nor have noe ground to question me any further about my Authority no he knew such an Answer would not serve their turne and therefore when they aske him what he was he confessed that he was not the Christ what then art thou say they to him art thou Elias and he saith I am not who then art thou he said I am the voyce of one caying in the Wildernesse make straight the way of the Lord as saith the Prophet Esay as Joh. 1.19.20 and so forward So you see John brings Authority from the Scripture to prove his Office doeth not runne as your Priests doe to the Administration or Execution of his Office to prove his Office or the lawfulnesse of his standing in it Also Christ himselfe when he was questioned by the Jewes about his miracles and those great workes which he wrought by virtue of what authority he did them he answers and saith If I beare witnesse of my selfe my witnesse is not true and therefore he brings his Father and John the Baptist and the holy Scripture to beare witnes of him that he did not take up his authority that he exercised of himselfe neither did he come unto them of his owne head and in his owne name but brings the voyce of his Father and the authority of the Word to bear witnes that he was sent of God prophesied of old to be the Messias John 5.31.32.37.46 8.17.18 Also the Apostle Paul when he was questioned by his enemies about his authority or the lawfulnes of his office he goes unto his Call into his office and that authority that placed him in it and by that proves that he tooke not that authority that he exercised upon him without good grounds but had it placed upon him by Jesus Christ himselfe Acts 22.10.11 so forward Also when he was questioned by the false Apostles at Corinth and Galatia about his authority he answers for himselfe that he was an Apostle and was free for I have saith he seen Jesus Christ who placed me in my office and by his authority gave me my Apostleship and called me by his voyce thereunto so that my authority and calling is not from men as you false Apostles are nor by men as the Ordinary Officers of the Church are who are called by the Church who hath authority from God so to doe but immediately from Jesus Christ our Lord as all his true Apostels are 1 Cor. 9.1 Gal. 1.1 So that you see Paul proved he was an Apostle and a true officer of Jesus Christ before ever he preached his Gospell and before ever he was an instrument to bring any to the knowledge and obedience of the truth and before ever the Corinthes became being begot by his Ministery the Seale of his Apostleship And doth John Baptist Christ and his Apostles whensoever they are questioned about their authority by their opposers prove their calling into their office by virtue of which they doe officiate and administer those administrations they administer and thinke your Ministers those Preists and Deacons of Antichrist to have more exemption then Christ or his Apostles had and therefore if they be ministers of Christ as they say they are I put you and them upon it to prove their calling and office from him that they were instated into their Ministry by
the King as Head thereof and have placed it upon the Bishops of Canterbury as you may read at large in the 10. and 11. p. of his Answer to sir John Bankes if Canterbury be her Head as Mason and others affirme then sure I am that Christ is none of her head for his body is no monster to have two heads Therefore the Church of England is a whorish and Antichristian Church and none of Christs having nothing to doe with Jesus Christ nor any of his Lawes Worship Offices Ordinances or Administrations but in the next place you bring an Argument to prove the Religion in the Church of England to be true and you thus lay it downe That Religion which will lead men on into the true way of salvation that must needs be the true Religion But the Religion which we professe leads into the true way of salvation for men to looke for salvation in Gods free mercy in Jesus Christ Therefore say you your Argument must needs be true I answer that if it were granted which in the least I doe not that your Religion is true yet this alone were not sufficient to prove your Church true But I absolutely deny your Argument and affirme that your Religion neither is the true Religion nor that it leads men the true way to salvation for I have already proved it to be a false Religion and that it leads men the true way to Rebellion against God and his Son Jesus Christ But you will say how comes it to passe that some are saved which professe our Religion which you affirme to be false I answer in Moses words hidden things belongs to God but revealed things to us and our Children Devt 29.29 but yet when I seriously consider of it and with a deliberate eye looke into the holy Scripture the revealed will of God it makes me thinke say and cry out with Paul Rom. 11.33 O the depthes of the riches both of the wisedome and knowledge of God how unspeakeable are his judgments and his wayes past finding out who can save his People those elect ones even in the bosome of Antichrist his cursed Kingdome of darknesse contrary to all grounded reason that the wit of man is able to give or render from his revealed will but only must say it is alone his meer mercy and gratious and omnipotent pleasure so to doe who is tyed to no meanes place or person but can worke and bring to passe his owne ends and purposes without meanes yea and beyond all outward meanes 1 Kin. 19.10.17 Ezec. 57. for the holy one of Israel is not limited But to prove this Argument you lay downe an other after this manner If men professing the same way to salvation that we doe have lived and dyed in the profession of it and been saved then is the Religion and way to salvation that we professe a true Religion and way to salvation But men that professe our Religion have been saved Ergo it is true what childish reasoning is here to beg things after this manner and to judge the cause by the effect contrary to the whole currant of the Scripture for it doth largly shew that a bad and wicked cause or action may produce and bring forth a good and glorious effect and this is just as they said in Pauls time let us doe evill that good may come of it but saith he such mens damnation is just Rom. 3.8 and if you have read the Scripture which it appeares you have not very often you may know that the Midwives and Harlot Rahabs lying saved the Israelites children and the Spies lives Exod. 1. Josh 2. for which act of mercy they are commended in the Word of God and also it produced good effects to them for the Lord caused the Midwives to prosper and saved Rahab alive yet for all this they sinned in lying and doe you not know that the Word of God saith wee must not doe the least evill that the greatest good may come of it but yet by your reasoning a man may which to affirme is the height of wickednes and impiety and also by your reasoning a man may defend and justifie all the sinnes and sayings of Gods people and others recorded in the Booke of God out of which that God that is able to bring light out of darkenes and good out of evill hath brought much glory to himselfe as out of Pharaohs hard heartednesse and blood thirsty cruelty that he exercised upon Gods people it produced good to them by working their deliverance and glory to God by manifesting his power and goodnes yet for all this Pharaohs sin was never the lesse And also according to your reasoning Judas his treason might be excused for that sin of his brought a world of glory unto God and salvation and eternall glory to his elect and chosen ones yet though his betraying of Christ did produce such a good and glorious effect it did nothing at all excuse his sin Againe your Arg. is nothing to the purpose to prove that which you have undertaken for we are not reasoning of the way and meanes of salvation which is only and alone by faith in the Lord Christ which is possible may be had in a false Ch. yea also in no Ch. but the thing we are about is to prove see whether the Ch. of Eng. be a true Ch. of Christ or a false Ch. of Antichr But yet more fully to Answer your Argument what though it be confessed that many of God Elect have been saved that have professed your false and Antichr Rel. it will not therefore follow that your Religion is a true Religion nor your church a true church because some have been saved that have professed it I hope you will not so conclude which if you doe then I say by your owne grounds that the chruch of Rome is a true church the Religion there a true Religion for many therein have lost their lives for the maintaining of some truths which have yet adheared to the Church of Rome of many of their eternall happines as good grounds may be given as the most of the martyrs of the ch of Eng. yea and I verily beleive that God hath had and still hath a people there which belongs to his Election of grace which both hath and will save and so by your owne grounds their church and Religion are both true because it is possible that some that professe have been and still may be saved But if you will maintaine this then you contradict your owne writers which have plentifully proved the Religion in Rome and the church thereof to be false and yet have granted that some have been saved there therefore for you to goe about to prove rhe church of Engl. true and the worship therein true because some of the members thereof that have professed the Religion therin have been saved is an erronious unsound ground for by this ground it will follow that the Crosse upon
Cup which shee hath filled to us let us fill to her dâ—uble for she hath beene exceeding proud against the Lord of Hoasts even against the Holy One of Israel Jer. 50.8.14.29 51.6.9.10 Rev. 18.4.5.6 And also I will maintaine that the Church of Rome as it is called and as at this day it stands and hath done for above a Thousand years neither is nor never was a true visible Church of Christ It is true there was a true Church in Rome and at Rome but never of Rome the members of which were Saints and Beleevers but the Church of Rome now consists of all sorts and kinds of wicked and ungodly persons which they force by spirituall Tyranny if they refuse to submit unto them Rev. 13.15.16 Yea the common Strumpets Whores that pay so many thowsands in the year to the Popes Gracelesse Impiety for keeping publique and open Stew-houses even in Rome it selfe for all eommers and goers are as good members of the Church thereof and as well accepted of as the best they have And thus I have punctually answered the second thing that you desire your friend to take notice of which is that Corruptions may be in a true Church which I have granted but yet have proued that it is their sinne the continuance in their corruptions will overthrow their Essence being make Christ to begon from them and so unchurch them Also I have shewed that it serves nothing to the benefit of your Church seing you are not able to prove that ever it was true Now to that which I have said and by the Authority of the sacred word of God proved I chalenge your particular and punctuall Answer in writing wishing you to goe to W. B. and G. W. who hoth have been main sticklers enemies of late to the truth of God professed by the totall Seperation and desire their best and ablest asistance for I beleeve that some of your nine flexible Erronious Antichristian Argumenss were digged out of their Leaden Mines wherefore with importunity without any deniall desire them to helpe you to reply in writing to this my publique answer otherwise I will say and proclaime it that you all three are fearefull cowards and but the ignorant darke night bragging and screeching Owles of Antichrist Now out of that you have largely proved you say but I affirme you have proved nothing at all to the purpose you infer those four Conclusions 1. That all the Descriptions Definitions of a visible Church given by the Separation are all false because they will have none but Saints in their Church to be the matter of it 2. That all their buildings are false 3. That the ground of their Separation is not sound seing that in a true visible Church there have beene knowne wicked men 4. From hence you infer that it is lawfull and warrantable to have spirituall Communion mith known wicked men in a religious worship seing they are the greatest part of a visible Ch. then to conclude all you say many more things you might have set downe if time had permitted but these you say are sufficient To which I answer that these four Conclusions are all of them wicked Antichristian and damnable without all warrant in the least from the Scripture as as I have already largly proved therefore they are not in the least sufficient to satisfie the Conseicnce of any man or woman I trvly desire to walk-in Gods ways therefore if you would still keepe your Freind a subjected servant to Antichrist as you your selfe are then publiquely in writing aunswer that which here I have writ otherwise I beleeve and hope that you will loose her with many moe besides ere long so leving you unto Baall for whom you plead and stand vp salyng with the spirit of God in Rev. 22.11 he that is unjust let him be unjust still and he that is filthy let him be filthy still and he that is righteous let him be righteous still he that is holy let him be holy still yet for all that if you belong to Gods Election of Grace I desire for you as it is my duty that God would reveale his truthe counsels and secrets unto you which he doth lesse or more to all those that truly feore him Ps 25.12.14 Pro. 3.32 Mar. 4.34 and that you may give true declaration of your unfained repentance for your great sin for standing for Antichrists Kingdome with all your might and for so bitter and malitious opposing and reviling the truth of God and the true professours thereof which if God give you not grace to doe assuredly know that seeing you have fallen upon the cheife corner stone Jesus Christ he will destroy and breake you but if he fall upon as you may justly feare he will grind you all to dust and powder Mat. 21.44 Therefore as you love your soule looke to it seeing you are now admonished by me your Opposite And so I rest your opposing Oppugner in the truthes behalfe against all Antichrist are â—…ours and maintainers thereof though in most cruell and close imprisonment in Irons with my bloody Prelaticall enemies desire and hope will shortly put a period to my dayes John Lilburne Anno. 1638. which to me is the second yeare of Remembrance and the 21 yeere of my age From the Fleet the Prelats fiery Furnace yet to me God â—hat made it a delightsome and rejoycing Pallace and Castle in which I stand Sentinell night and day to defend Sion the City of the living God from her enemies and to oppose all her opposers desiring all my fellow brethren that professe the same truth with me as valiant and worthy Soldiers of Jesus Christ to lend me their best and corragious assistance with the choysest of their spirituall weapons that sowe may haue in hand with violence â—…ble downe in the ground the tottering confused Tower of Babel These Verses were my meditations one night in my close Imprisnment after the reading of a pamphlet sung in the streets of London in which I was joyned as a Traytour with the Scots at their first comeing into England The Lord our God is both firme and stable And all his Councels and Decrees unalterable Which when they surly shall accomplish'd be The downfall of his enemies we shall see Which I by faith doe apprehend to be at hand Which fils my soule with zeale full fast to stand To that renowned cause for which in bonds I lye Seeing his prayse and truth doth spread thereby O happy be the day that he me brought Unto my sorrowes for they unto my thought doe serve to be the choysest safety can be found Upon this vaine and empty earthly ground For in them my soule such large experience hath got Of that celestiall tresure that ne're shall rot But will for ay and ay endure As long as God's both stable firme and sure The like whereof I apprehend can not be had As liberty though my estate esteem'd be had Therefore for ever praysed be my God That no my house of clay hath laid his rod In loving kindnes mercy and in favour That so my soule from him might never waver Wherefore before I will his Truth deny Resolv d I am at Stake to dye John Lilburne Errata p. 2. l.r. Deut. 16.16 p.l. 12. r to you my l. 18. that her l. 16. r. so knit l. 29. r. ordination of p 6. l 11. r. best p. 9. l. 41. r. one of p. 10. l. 16. dele 54. 7. l. 91. r. yet for all p. 12. r. of faith l. 29. and unlesse l 31. dele without a lawfull authority given and received from him p 14. l. 13 they are p. 19. l 3. r. to observe l. 19. r. I challenge l. 20. r. your people p. 20. l. 28. r. bind p. 21. l. 21. r. feeding p. 25. l.r. therefore p. 26. l. 28. r. Gal. 5. p. 30. l. 25. r. failings p. 31. r. only p. 36. r. vnder l. r. of l. in Syon p. 39. l.r. never can be p. 40. l. 13. dele though FINIS