Superscription or image upon thy counterfeit Coin to make it pass for currant but being used to such Coin from such hands makes me the more jealous and had thou not used the word Truth so much I might not have been so strict in my examination but in the true Ballance are thy words weighed and they are found too light and condemned as nothing sound and so no Plea for Truth nor spoken in Love to Truth but to hide some beloved Image which thou cal's Truth and would have others to take it so to be but though they may be Jacobs words yet they are Esaus hands and the blessing he must not have and so thou hast not named thy Book right Then thou sayest I appeal to all unbyased men and women in the World c. James Pope Thy appeal is too large for a business of no more concernment it may be determined by a lesse company and that in Righteousness too and yet judgement may be given against thee both for thy rash appeal and hasty charge against Thomas White in saying shooting this his first Fiery Dart if it hath wounded it is because the Armour of Light was not put on for it was not shot at a Friend but at an Enemy neither was it a Fiery Dart shot toward the Life but to stick fast in the Liver of the Man of Sin that that which is of God may go free and the exalted and the mighty be thrown from his Seat And whereas thou sayest either he knows those of the Baptists or he knows them not that stumble at and contend against Christ Thomas White doth not charge all the Baptists with stumbling at and contending against that in which alone all worship prayers sacrifices are accepted in the sight of God c. neither doth he call them contenders against Christ in those words but if thou had been indued with patience throughly thou might have read this word therefore or reason of his so speaking to the Baptists which is that except their worship prayers c. do come from a measure of him in you who is the light of the World c. you are but warming your selves at your own sparks but of those words thou takest no notice either as not knowing a measure of him who is the Light of the world to be in thee or else dost not believe that there is a measure of God in man first to be known before God himself in his fulnes come to be known and there is the drawings of the Father first to be known before Christ be come unto and there is the forming of Christ in man before Christ be born and brought forth 1 John 6.44 Gal. 4.19 But thou overlooking of the measure of Christ in thee in thy reading of his Book speaks thee guilty of overlooking the measure of Light given to thee to profit withal and so wouldst be dealing by whole-sale before thou knowest Christ formed in thee and something that is pure in thy own heart to guide thee given thee freely of God to lead thee into Truth which is more then into words that are true And so thy saying that the People Thomas White writes unto do know all sacrifices are onely accepted in Christ seems to be too hasty a confession and to be too much like the People of Israel of old spoken of Deut. 5.28 29. I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have spoken unto thee they have well said all that they have spoken O that there were such an heart in them and like the foolish virgins whose lamps were gone out and yet kept their confidence Lord Lord open to us and like to Nicodemus confession who readily confessed to Christ but knew not the Kingdom in him like a grain of Mustard-seed no more then the Pharisees And therefore James Pope search and try thy self whether thou hast any other proof of all Sacrifices being accepted in Christ then that 1 Peter and that of Ephesians 1. if not what proof hast thou more then all English-men have and yet all English-men do not know Christ in them nor that all is accepted in Christ though they have read it so as well as thou but are offering up both strange flesh and strange fire And therefore be not angry nor call it a reviling slander because Thomas White said many Baptists are professing preaching praying c. and yet stumbling at and contending against that in which all worship is accepted in the sight of God for this is and may be true and therefore no such Fiery Dart as thou wouldest represent it to be nor no reviling slander nor is he to be reproved for speaking evil of things he knows not and therefore thy thoughts that he ought to be deeply humbled before the Lord for this are as vain and unsound as thy mistake was in what moved thee to write thy Book for may not Thomas White know many Baptists that have stumbled at and contended against the light of Christ which every man that cometh into the World is lighted with are not many such known at this day in England nay dost not thou and others know many who are called Baptists that dispute against the light and grace of God given to all men as being sufficient to lead to salvation and deny that which checks and reproves for sin in men and women to be the saving light of Christ now do not such who thus say and thus believe stumble at contend against that in which alone all worship is accepted in Gods sight and besides is T. White any more an offender for not naming those particular Baptists that do so stumble and dispute then Paul was blamable for not naming those amongst the Corinthians that he charged with eating disorderly or those that he charges with being unequally yoked or then those he charges with being sick and weak for the causes mentioned in his Epistle and yet names not the persons no more doth it follow that either Thomas White doth not know such as he charges or else he was bound to name them or otherwise he must be taxed for being no friend to the souls of all the Baptists or for shooting of fiery darts against them or for being a reviling slanderer and ought deeply to be humbled for the same but James Pope thou dost not divide aright thy Exhortations but art an unskilful Preacher for this deep humiliation belongs to thy self both for thy ignorance and for thy hypocrisie in covering over thy unadvised sayings with the painted garment of a plea for truth when truth doth not own thy words for let but the wise in heart judge and they will see that thy hard ignorant and rash charges are as strong against Paul upon the reasons alledged as against Thomas White but they will fall upon thy own pate and upon a serious search of thy heart in Gods fear and light my sayings may be of closer and nearer concernment to thy self and many of
thy brethren then thou art at present sensible of but if repentance prevent not in time thou mayest feel the weight In thy 2. page thou saist That thou dost wish that Thomas White and his friends may also carefully walk by the rule T.W. prescribeth to thee and thy friends then thou saist he will be so far from speaking against his holy appointments that he will love and keep them maist thou not be judged out of thy own mouth Did Thomas White shoot a fiery dart and dost thou not shoot a poisoned arrow and dost not thou charge him with speaking against Gods holy appointments and as if he neither loved them nor kept them nor delighted in those that did How many falsities and untruths are here in two lines was it no better then a reviling slander in Thomas White and didst thou judge it so and therefore saith that thou thinkest that he ought to be deeply humbled before the Lord for the same because he said while many of you are professing praying and yet stumbling at contending against that in which alone all worship c. is accepted in the sight of God Is his offence so great because he did not name them though he knew them and is thy offence mitigated because thou names Thomas White but chargest him falsely with that which thou canst not prove against him and yet calls thy sayings a plea for truth c as if thy Title to thy Book were to priviledge thy calumnies and Authority sufficient to pass thy reproaches without a review or farther examination but thy beautiful Title is but like the Pharisees beautifying the outside of the cup and platter while the inside was foul and like Pilate who wrote a good Title over Christ calling him King of the Jews but delivered him up to be crucified as a blasphemer So thy fair Title doth but aggravate thy offence in that thou slanders the innocent and calls it a plea for truth in love to truth as if light and darkness could unite together and truth and falshood marry each other which neither can be neither shall they go unpunished who go about to reconcile them In the 3. page of thy Book thou askest Thomas White in those words why dost thou upbraid us do we say that the Scriptures direct not to or speak not of a light within we both know and say that the Scripture saith 2 Cor. 4.6 that God hath shined in the hearts of his Saints to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ James Pope when thou saist do we say and we both know and say c. Dost thou onely intend thy self and some one or two more or dost thou intend all the Baptists generally seeing that thy self may not be ignorant how many Baptists have both in Print and disputes publikely disowned the light within that checks and reproves for sin to be sufficient to lead to salvation which thou seems to acknowledge in words to be true and chargest Thomas White for upbraiding of you in that he saith are not many of you strangers to the light whilst you are questioning whether the Scriptures declare of or direct to a light within c. which thing hath often been questioned by many Baptists and such as are none of the least in esteem among you and if thou wilt declare against them that have so questioned and disputed and deny fellowship with them for not being sound in the faith I may help thee to a Catalogue of their names the publike dispute at Dunstable may bring some of them to thy remembrance But are you not better informed then you were some years since and somewhat rectified in your judgements if so let the praise be given to God and your former errours and mistakes be printed and published for others to take heed by especially seeing many who are called Baptists in England are yet in the dark and questioning what thou on the behalf of thy brethren seems to confesse to and let your unity make it appear that you do not onely confesse to the light within that checks and reproves for sin to be that alone which gives the knowledge of God in the face of Christ and that a man cannot have the knowledge of God in Christ until the light give it to him but also that you walk in the light and have fellowship one with another in the light and that in it you witness the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse you from all sin that so none of you may stumble at the Doctrine of perfection but if you say you have fellowship with God and are in the fellowship of the Gospel and walk in darkness and stumble at figures and shadows you lie and do not the truth for in him is no darkness at all And whereas thou sayest Thomas White deals uncharitably with you in putting you in the number of those that are lost in whom the God of this world hath blinded their eyes c. It is no uncharitableness to speak the truth and to say that those who are stumbling at that which is given them to lead out of darkness are such as the God of this world hath blinded their minds and that such are in a lost estate and the Gospel of their salvation they do not know for it is hid from them and he that judges such so to be is not uncharitable but his judgement is just and the uncharitableness doth light upon thy own head And whereas thou sayest in these words thou must give me leave to query how thou darest abuse us c. James thy tongue is too much thy own in speaking leesing for leave I do not give thee to query of that which is not for that is breath spent in vain for it is no abuse to query how they can professe they know God who deny the light of his Son within but leaves out these following words viz. in which the Father is revealed and by which that that may be known of God is made manifest in man is this a plea for truth in love to truth to take half a sentence or so much as may serve to make a cavil and leave out that which is the main and explanatory part of the whole or is it rather in imitation of him who made use of Scripture to tempt Christ withal but left out what might make against his design may he not justly be charged as a transgressor that shall say there is no God though he quote the Scripture for it which saith there is no God but leaves out the foregoing words which makes the saying true which is that the fool hath said in his heart there is no God doth thy crime differ in any thing from his that should so say more then this that he leave out the foregoing words and thou leaves out Thomas Whites following words and to say that such a one is a deceitful worker and for it must come to judgement is but to
another name for he is subject to mistake as his Book plentifully makes it manifest especially hear where he would have those members called living stones or a Church in God who differ in their understandings about Election and reprobation and what and how many Ordinances Christ hath appointed to be used in his Church which first James Pope and his brethren are to agree in and conclude upon before those who are led by the same spirit that Paul was can rejoyce in your order but rather mourns in secret for your disorder and cryes to the Lord to open the eyes of your understandings and to give you the Spirit of wisdom and Revelation for the acknowledgement of him that ye may know what is the hope of his calling and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the Saints and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of the might of his power which he wrought in Christ when he raised him from the dead c. Thou sayest that Baptism by fire was promised and performed in the second of the Acts and some other places but experimentally neither the Quakers nor any other that thou knowest of doth know it if they do let them make it manifest by their speaking in strange tongues miracles c. for so all could do that the Lord Baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire Thomas Doth not the Saints know things now exper mentally as well as they did in former times herein thou hast shewed thy nakedness and of what kind thy knowledge is now which from me thou wouldst not have born if I should have called thy knowledge natural or traditional as it must needs be if it be not experimental and so is knowledge falsely so called for I desire to know nothing but what I know experimentally in the worship and service of God for all other knowledge doth but puff up and to it I desire to be a fool that I may know things not by thinking but certainly and the tongues by which those speak now who are Baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire are as strange to this generation as those were strange to that generation then and maist thou not as well say there is none that thou knows of that are now Baptized with the holy Ghost as to say there is none that thou knows Baptized with fire maist thou not as truly say that there is none that thou knows of now Baptized with the Holy Ghost because none now speaks with those strange tongues nor doth those Miracles thou speaks of for they went together then and they are not parted now except by those who knows neither experimentally and if thou knew any Baptism aright or him that is mightier then John thou mightest know Baptizing with the Holy Ghost and fire or if thou know him whose fan is in his hand but art thou not in truth as ignorant of his fan as of his fire and because of thy ignorance of both the chaff remains unburnt up and the chaff ungathered into the garner and therefore I tell thee plainly James Pope thou and thy brethren must yet know a terrible day of threshing before the Word of the Lord you know that is as a hammer and fire until then your words are but as chaff to the wheat Jer. 23.28 29 and Mat. 3.10 11 12. Be not angry if in love to thee I ask thee a Question viz. Are not many of the Baptists now that are Baptized with water as ignorant of the Holy Ghosts Baptism as those Disciples of John in John 1 35 36 37. who followed Christ and left John were who at the 41. vers saith We have found the Messias which they had not while they were with John but in this you Baptists are short of John for he was not angry when his Disciples left him and went to Christ see that you imitate him in this also as well as his outward washing And for thy answer to what is the flaming sword thou manifests thy ignorance of it as of the Baptism with fire in saying If thou meanest the work of grace c. He meant as he spake and if indeed thou knewest it thou would have returned another answer and not when a question is asked about a particular then to answer if thou mean the work of grace in you and here thou makest good thy former words viz. That thy knowledge is not experimental no more of the flaming sword then of Baptism by fire and if thou art mistaken in this then doth not thy ignorance appear of what follows by thy own confession and it is no uncharitableness so to conclude viz. That you have not felt the quickning power of the Lord raising up a Seed and bringing forth a birth in you which is not of the world but contrary to the world which is leading out of the vanities thereof and causes them to bear the cross Then thou saist The Baptists are for signs and wonders and gazing stocks in the earth and thou saist Some of us have been reproached for the Name of Christ c though we have at this day much rest from the rage of our enemies What confusion is here first to say the Baptists are for signs and wonders c. and then to say with the same breath as it were some of us have been reproached c and though we have at this day rest c. How can these things hang together Is not the rest that you now have in the flesh and in that same nature that the world is in And is not the seed spoken of before unraised up but rather in Babylon then in Canaan And was it not better with you then when you were as gazing stocks to the world then now when you are become their companions in their folly vanity and customs and fashions which thou speaks of in thy next lines c And thy ingenious confession of the reforming work that is yet behind I own but remember it is he that confesseth and forsaketh that finds mercy and take heed of covering your evil customs with good names as thou in thy following words pleads for least thou spoil thy former confession and cavil against what thou seemedst even now to wind up into a penitent confession and so thou thy self and thy brethren be the very men that thou speakest of in the former page that are like Naaman the Assyrian that not onely thinks the customs and fashions of the world which the people called Quakers stand witnesses against on truths behalf too low for you to stoop unto but also in that you are like Naaman the Assyrian in this particular who after he was washed confessed to the true God in the 2 Kings 5.15 17. and 18. ver and said he would not sacrifice to other Gods but to the Lord and yet like thee in the next words begins to plead thy case or rather really to dispence with the light of
Unrighteousness NO PLEA FOR TRUTH Nor Ignorance a Lover of it Being an Answer to a book called A Plea for Truth in love to Truth subscribed by James Pope Wherein is contained his Answer to several Queries sent to him by Thomas White which are tried and found unsatisfactory and James Popes Ten Queries to the people called Quakers fully answered Also the Doctrine and Practise of the People called Baptists examined and weighed in the true ballance and found too light With a full discussion of their Principles and particularly their Ordinances of breaking bread and water-baptism c. With some Queries to all the People called Baptists wheresoever they are to be found for them to answer in Truth and Righteousnesse and in Gods fear By a true Lover of all their souls and eternal welfare JOHN CROOK Try all things and hold fast that which is good For enquire I pray thee of the former age and prepare thy selfe to the search of their fathers Job 8.8 He shall lean upon his house but it shall not stand he shall hold it fast but it shall not endure Job 8.15 Printed for Tho. Simmons at the Bull Mouth near Aldersgate 1659. THE PREFACE THe Lord of Hosts is arisen and arising in his power to shake the earth and not onely the Earth but Heaven also that that which cannot be shaken may remain and this shaking is for the removing of those things which are shaken as of things that are made And for Alaruming of the World and awakening all professions and Professors that so every man may betake himself to his God and he that answers by fire and consumes the chaffe and stubble let him be God and all bow before him that so his Name may be exalted above every name and that to him every knee may bow both of things in Heaven and things in Earth for to him must all bow and bend and the Prophet which he hath raised up must all hear or be cut off from among the people and this Prophet is like unto Moses and must go before Israel to lead the holy Seed out of Aegypt and to divide the Sea for Israel to passe and to stand in the gap to intercede that so the Lords wrath may be appeased but they that refuse him that speaks cannot escape Therefore Reader whosoever thou art take heed that thou neglect not this the day of thy visitation nor that great salvation which is proffered to thee in the light of Christ for if thou harden thy heart against it thou cannot prosper neither canst thou ever hear his voyce nor see his shape but in the light for he will not alwayes strive with thee neither will he accept an offering at thy hand while thou rebels against his light that shines in thy heart to give thee the knowledge of God in Christ for Gods soul is weary of all vain oblations that are offered up in the wills of men and of their humility that is feigned and of al their Assemblies though they multiply them while obedience and hearkening to his voyce in the conscience is not regarded Therefore turn ye turn ye to the true light that with it you may see your selves and from that sight receive the sentence of death upon your selves that you may not trust in your selves but in the living God that so every one of you may know by experience that by grace you are saved not of your selves but by the free gift and this free gift may lead and guide you in all your Worship that so self may have no share in it but every one of you may be justified before the Lord both in your sayings and doings that you may be able to endure sound Doctrine which searches the heart and tryes the reins and keeps low waiting for the fulfilling of the promise viz. That all the people of the Lord shall be taught of the Lord may not heap up teachers to your selves to please the itching ear And what thou meetest with in this discourse that may seem sharp or piercing take it as the smiting of a friend not given to hurt the life but to wound that nature and birth which must not be heir with the free-born but must be cast out or else to the Inheritance of the Saints in light thou canst not come nor into the holy City thou canst not enter which hath been trodden under foot though thou may dwell in the outward courts for that must be given to the Gentiles Therefore hast hast hast and come out least being partaker of the sin thou be partaker of the plague also and meet the Lord while he is nigh and call upon him while he may be found least the door be shut and there be no entrance for thee JAMES POPE HAving seen a Paper with thy name subscribed to it in answer to a Paper of Thomas Whites directed to the People called Baptists which thou calls A Plea for Truth in love to Truth which Title agreeth not with thy Book if thou intendest the writing following thy Title Page and so on to the end of the Book For in the third line of thy Book I finde a saying which is none of Truths Plea which is the cause and inducement that moved thee to write thy following discourse in these words It hath moved me to write this following answer because none else that thou knowest of hath done it What thou meanest by it hath moved thee I do not understand because thou hast given two Reasons of thy writing of thy Book one is because thou sayest thou art one of those people to whom Tho. White directed his Paper and thy second Reason seems to be because thou hadst two of those Papers given to thee and then saith It hath moved thee to write this following Answer c. This savors more of the voice of a stranger then to be Truths Plea If by it thou intendest the Spirit of God why didst thou not name it Or dost thou question its Authority as not being sufficient of it self without some other motive or dost thou not intend that at all as not believing it necessary to such a work or as not being thy rule to walk by or wast thou when thou began to write thy Book as one surprized with fear speaking that which thou understood not thy self and so let it pass as hoping it might meet with the same acceptance from the Reader being cloathed with this beautiful Title of A Plea for truth in love to Truth and then begins thy Book thus Forasmuch as I am one of those people to whom Thomas White hath directed his Paper and having two of those Papers given to me it hath moved me to write this following Answer because none else that I know of hath done it James Pope I may justly suspect to find more of thy Pleas to be none of Truths neither come they from Truth nor tend they to the Honour of Truth onely thou makes use of the Name Truth as a
speak truth plainly and therefore take Thomas Whites words at length as they are in his Book and may it not justly be queried how can those Baptists professe they know God whilst they are denying the light of his Son within in which the Father is revealed and by which that which may be known of God is made manifest in man seeing such hath appeared in opposition to this light both by publike Printing and disputing and if thou James Pope do not own them to be of you declare it publikely that so they may come to repentance and you be clear of their blood And whereas thou sayest the Lord in mercy hath made you to own him to be your life and light who also is leading you in the way to that light which is unapproachable c. I cannot but take notice of thy confusion who speaks like one that hath got a thing by rote but understandest not what thou sayest for is Christ your very light and life who is leading of you in the way to that light which is unapproachable and is not that same Christ that is the light and life also the way and the light which is unapproachable or is there one Christ that is the very life and light and leader in the way and approachable and another Christ that is the way that light which is unapproachable if thou knewest what thou said thou would know that the very life and light is unapproachable but dost thou not in those words manifest thy ignorance of Gods Christ the way to the Father and light of the world and life of men and by thy invention hast found out one Christ to be thy very light and life and is leading of thee in the way to another Christ which is unapproachable so that to one Christ thou art already come who is thy light and life and he is leading of thee in the way to that light which is unapproachable by this thou mayest see where thou art for in the world are Gods many and Lords many but to us there is but one God and one Lord Jesus and we know that an Idol is nothing howbeit there is not in all men this knowledge And whereas thou speaks of holy appointments and Christs Ordinances and who ever denyes them they are they which deny the light c. Thou shouldst speak plainly what those appointments are that thou intendest because you Baptists differ so much among your selves about them one saith Christ hath appointed hands to be laid on and another saith Christ hath appointed the washing of the Disciples feet and another saith anointing with oil is an Ordinance and another saith good chear or love feasts before the supper is an Ordinance and some say sprinkling is enough others say they must be dipped over head and ears and some say the bread must be cut others that it must be broken some say it must be taken and broken by him that eats it others say it must be broken before hand and given them by an officer of the Church and some say singing is an Ordinance and others say no and many other things which Baptists call Ordinances and appointments but which are thine or those that thou calls Christs appointments and Institutions thou hast not yet declared thy self seeing all these are called Christs appointments and ordinances by those who plead for them but I should counsel thee first to be reconciled to thy brethren and agree with them which be Christs appointments and which be mens inventions or mens misunderstanding of Christs words and then I may declare to thee which are to continue and which are at an end the substance being come until then take heed thou deal not with his Ordinances as thou hast dealt with his Name in calling that a plea for truth in love to truth which indeed is but a cover for deceit And you that are called Baptists above some others make it manifest your fellowship is not in the light because you have not fellowship one with another and therefore though you confess to the light yet I may say thou walks not in the light while thou imagines two Christs one to be the very life and light and the other to be a light unapproachable And whereas thou grants that it was the end of the Apostles Ministry to turn people from darkness to light and grants that many at this day tramples under foot the Son of God c. and I doubt not but all in his book that thou hast not answered thou grants and touching the Doctrine of Election and Reprobation thou saist that the people which Tho. White writes to do differ in their understandings of it and therefore shall pass it by c. Truly James thou grants so much and passest by such things that now I do not wonder thou understood not what it was that moved thee to write thy book except to see thy name in Print Art thou ashamed of thy Doctrine of Election and Reprobation how wilt thou avoid the censure of Christ saying Whosoever denies me before men him will I also deny before my Father which is in Heaven Mat. 10.33 And if we deny him he also will deny us 2 Tim. 2.12 And if you that are Baptists do differ in such a fundamental thing as Election and Reprobation how can ye be in the Faith or fellowship of the Gospel seeing it is the Election that obtains and the Reprobation that enters not And if you differ in your understandings about this how can you understand any thing aright seeing no Faith but the Faith of Gods Elect is sound and good nor no Salvation can be witnessed until Calling and Election be not onely known but made sure and yet the Baptists differ in your understandings about it And therefore must ye needs be at a loss and in an uncertain state as to your eternal welfare and happiness and alwayes lyable to be deceived for it is onely the Elect that are impossible to be deceived and therefore no marvel why you are so devided and deceived seeing you differ in your understandings about Election Hast hast hast unto the light of Christ that shines in your dark hearts that that may give you the understanding of Election and Reprobation for now it is evident that while thou and others are differing about Election and know it not your Religion is in vain and Christ the light you do not know and therefore no marvel thou speaks of one Christ that is thy light and life and another light that is unapproachable In thy fourth page thou seems to be displeased with Thomas White for cautioning of thee to take heed of deceit c. Is it not time to caution thee and others to take heed of deceit seeing you differ in your understanding about Election and none are out of a possibility of being deceived but the Elect and you and others differing in your understandings about it is it not time to cry to you Baptists above others
which is drink indeed are nourished up to Eternal life so that while some do eat and drink in that Ordinance unworthily and so eat and drink damnation others by faith feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and so are nourished up to Eternal life Answ Is there any thing in the fore-cited place that directs to the use of that which thou cals an Ordinance surely in this thy zeal out-runs thy understanding seeing those be the words of the fore-cited place viz. for as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup shew ye the Lords death till he come for so it is on the Margent shew ye what is here of direction in these words as to the use of an Ordinance as thou sayest let the wise in heart judge but doth not the Apostles words asmuch if not more signifie to the Corinthians that they might forbear their eating and drinking in that wise as they did eat and drink and their unworthiness was in not discerning of the Lords body and for that cause was many sick and weak c. and for that disorder which was amongst many the Apostle reproves them as for their greediness and drunkenness the like and exhorts them to eat at home in their own houses but he never calls it an Ordinance to be ministred once a Moneth or once a week and that alwayes by some men or man appointed by the rest in their wills and wayes some to buy wine and bread and others to break it and deliver to the rest but Christ did not do so for in the same night in which he was betrayed he took bread and when he had given thanks he brake it and said take eat this is my body this do in remembrance of me after the same manner also he took the cup when he had Supped and did he bid you do so or do you do so after Supper or can you give thanks as he did or do you know what he said when he gave thanks or do you imitate him in saying his very words in one thing viz. this is my body and do you speak your own words in other things as when you give thanks or do you take a piece of bread and a cup of wine and say nothing at all but eat and drink and if you do it not in the same manner which he did it in is it then his Ordinance or your invention seeing Gods Ordinances must be kept as they were delivered and observed as he commanded them otherwise they are none of his and if not his then but a likeness and if a likeness then that which God hath forbidden and so is Idolatry and he an Idolator that so worships and in that state cannot enter into the Kingdom of God And whereas thou sayest some might eat this bread and drink this cup which is also called flesh and blood unworthily Take heed James of calling a lie a plea for truth in love to truth remember the Title of thy book where is that bread and that cup which a man may eat unworthily called flesh and blood as thou positively affirms in thy query it is surely thou discerns not Christs body for if thou did thou wouldst learn to speak truth are not these the words of the Apostle that thou intendst viz. wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord but where is it called flesh and blood surely this is a gross errour of thine not onely to call the outward bread the outward cup which an unworthy and wicked man may eat and drink flesh and blood and if flesh and blood whose flesh and blood is it not Christs flesh and Christs blood and can an unworthy man and woman eat and drink that surely no if Christs words be true and I must believe him before thee James and he saith John 6.54 whosoever eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath Eternal life how sayest thou then in thy query some might eat this bread and drink this cup which thou sayest is also called flesh and blood unworthily but where is the bread the cup which some may eat and drink unworthily called flesh and blood take heed of slandering the Scripture And then thou drawest up thy query into a short conclusion in these words viz. so that while some do eat and drink in that Ordinance unworthily and so eat and drink damnation other by faith feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and so are nourished up to Eternal life and herein thou hast made a good confession that while some in that which thou calls an Ordinance eat and drink damnation others who live by faith and feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and are not that which thou calls an Ordinance and yet are nourished up to Eternal life and so of what thou hast spoken this is the sum that some in that Ordinance eat and drink damnation and others out of it feed upon the living bread that comes down from heaven and have Eternal life abiding in them Q. 7. Whether those that deny Church fellowship do not forsake their own mercies seeing Gods children have found by sweet experience that it is of singular use for their building upon their most holy faith it being the place of Christs promised presence where he hath commanded the blessing and life for evermore Answ Those that deny that Church that is in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Thes 1. and that fellowship that is in the light as he is in the light 1 John â— denyes the true Church-fellowship and forsakes their own mercies and that light in which alone all the Saints ever had all their sweet experiences given them of Gods love and tender mercy to them and in that who ever walked and continued in it built up one another in their most holy faith that being the place of Christs promised presence for there he dwells for ever and out of his light none can meet with him or know him and out of that is the false Church and Church-fellowship and Christian outward and baptism outward that onely washes away the filth of the flesh but knows not the answer of a good conscience by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ for from the true light was and is the false Church and fellowship for they went out from us saith the Apostle who had his fellowship in the light Q. 8. Whether they may not most truely be said to live above Ordinances that faithfully wait upon and live to Christ in the use of them Answ They that wait upon and live to Christ in the use of Ordinances cannot be said to live above them for that which God hath appointed and Ordained as the way to Eternal life and happiness none may live above it for the the way and the life are one and he that is in the way is in the truth and in the life also
and none can be in the truth and most truely live above the way ordained of God to life neither can any live above the way and yet be in the truth and therefore thy query is an unlearned question and manifests thy ignorance of the mysteries of Christ Q. 9. Whether if those who despised Moses Law died without mercy under two or three witnesses ought not those then that either in word practice or writing despise Christs Law to be deeply humbled and truely repent of so grievous a sin especially if they have taught others so do Answ I hope that is not the English of thy query viz. that thou wouldst have them more sorely punished that deny your water washing then those were that despised Moses Law Those who despise Christs Law ought to be deeply humbled and repent of it and turn from it or they cannot be saved and such are all those who despise the true light with which every man that cometh into the world is lighted and call it natural for Christ is a Law-giver and gives Laws to his children as Moses did to the Jews and his Laws and Ordinances are onely known and read in the true light and he which opposes or gain-says either in himself or others the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withall is an unprofitable servant unto God though he be found in all the outward practices of the true Church for God is a Spirit and they which worship him aright must worship in the Spirit and in the truth for such God did seek to worship him in the dayes of the Apostles and such God is seeking again and all others shall be discovered and cast out as dung upon the face of the earth and such despisers shall behold and wonder and by their mocking at the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world shall their bonds become strong and their punishment become sorer then those who despised Moses Law if they speedily repent not 10 Q. Whether it will be a good Plea at the dreadful day of Christ to say Lord we would not have despised thy Laws if thou hadst made them to our minds and we had thought they had been spiritual enough Answ It will be no good Plea at the dreadful day of Christ neither is it now to say Lord we would not have despised thy Laws if thou hadst made them to our minds and we had thought they had been spiritual enough and of this sort are all those who put the day of the Lord afar off and are of the night and know not the day of the Lord as yet to be dawned nor the day-star to be risen in their hearts but though they draw near with their lips their hearts are far from God and their minds are estranged from him by wicked works though in words they confess him yet they are but in their thoughts and think they stand sure but their foundation is rottenness and built upon the sands like all those who say and do not and hear his words but obey them not and cry the Temple of the Lord and Church-fellowship and Ordinances but hate to be Reformed and to have their conversation ordered aright and so cannot see Gods Salvation while they account that too low and carnal or legal and natural which checks and reproves for sin in the Conscience and accuses for evil and excuses when they do well and reject it and slight it as not spiritual enough and such are they thy Query speaks of had they known that the light in their Consciences had been spiritual and that which came from Christ the light of the world and given them to lead out of darkness and that with which they must come to see themselves lost and undone if ever they be saved and in the sight and sence of their miserable estate to wait for a Saviour and in that light to see him revealed to save when none can help or deliver I say this is the man and the woman that in truth thy Query speaks of that shall say Lord we would not have despised thy Laws if thou hadst made them to our minds or if they had been spiritual enough but the light in the Conscience we liked not because it alwayes bore a witness for God against all our evil wayes and now we marvel not that every one that doth evil hates it because it reproves them all but outward Observances and bodily Exercises we like well and in these Observations we look for the Kingdom of Heaven to come but to give up to be guided by the light in our Consciences and shines in our hearts for that to give us the knowledge of God in the face of Christ we like not but accounted it not sufficient to lead to Christ and that which prejudiced us the more against the light which shines in our hearts and hath long shewed us our evil words before we spake them and our thoughts when they first did arise in us before we consented to them to follow them was because we accounted it common to all men and that which every man had and that though it shewed some sins against the Law yet not all sins against the Gospel as unbelief and therefore slighted it as legal and natural and when it troubled us or reproved us when we had been worshipping of thee O Lord as we thought in breaking bread and drinking wine and preaching and praying and the like which we verily believed had been thy ordinances and appointments and when we were troubled in our spirits and minds after such exercises as these we looked upon it as the temptation of the Devil and did not know it to be Gods witness in our Consciences or his Spirit striving with us to bring us to silence that so we might know the dumb to speak and the Spirit of the Lord to move and stir and guide in us and we in all things to be led by it and so in all we did feel Gods acceptance by the Testimony of his Spirit in us even the Spirit it self bearing witnesse with our spirits that we were Gods Children and the Spirit of truth to lead us into all truth that so by it we might witness freedom from the inward troubles of our minds and spirits and the accusings of Gods witness in our Consciences and so be made free and perfect as pertaining to the Conscience by the blood of Christ which is onely known and felt in his light as the Scripture saith 1 John 1.7 If we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin But we looked on that of God in our Consciences to be too low and of the reliques of the old Adam or something of the Law but we looked upon our selves as not being under the Law but under grace and so judged our selves in Christ and when we were at