estate of Saints only Mr Doctor methinks this should clear your eies of your confused Antichristian way teaching if you teach the Gospel estate of an Evangelized Saint your unregenerate Church-members are never the better ipse dixit how shall they believe them Here as in a glasse ye may see the ground of your unprofitable teaching yet let Christ say what he will you will teach so P. 29. 2 Tim. 4.5 Doe the work of an Evangelist Dr. The place of Timothy is perverted and rack'd beyond the Apostles puâ—â—â—se for the Apostles meaning is not to signifie anâ— such thing as is here inserted but only that Timothy by being sober and watchfull and painful in the work of the Gospel should give unto all a ful assurance of the truth of the Gospel whereof he was a minister 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is here required is the same whereof the Apostle speakes after vers 17. where he saiâ—h that Gods assistance of him in his suffeâ—ings made the preaching fully known and gave to all an assurance of the truth thereof so then to make a ful proof of the miâ—istry is nothing else but to approve ones self to the conscience of all by a true and faithful carriage of oneâ— selâ— in the charge You do here as in all other places almâ—st you take hold of a word and run away with it to apply it to your fancy and draw consequences from it and never look to the Apostles scope Resp 1. Your beginnings and endings oft times are like you cry out of racking Scriptures let the Reader judge of whom the Scripture cry out of racking most you or me and who perverts them most all that you say is meant in the Scripture every word but not any such thing as I affirme ideots that cannot try you must trust you but men of judgement and understanding wil the sooner mistrust you Sir you are as errour wrapt up in truth's Cloak let that be once taken from you and you will cozen no man more 2. The maine thing in the text is that Paul bids him do the worke of an Evangelist which before he had not done in his former Ministry if he had why doth Paul give him a charge to do it now and then backs it with this of make full proof of the ministry or bear the ful ministry now you leave out and say not a word of that which contained the mattter it self and run to a story very impertinent to the thing in hand 3. But that the Reader may understand you the better the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 relates to the Evangelical office here in this verse and that in verse 17. hath respect to verse 6 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which shewes with that ver 17. that he had done by his Ministry what God had ordained in this world for him to do and no otherwaies applying to Numb 8.24 this is that belongs to the Levites from 25 years old and upward It is they shall enter into the Militia quasi bellatores in service c. Sir I have heard it reported that you had that honour to be chosen the man to reconcile Lutherans and Protestants If so sure you will never have the honour to bring the Presbytery to the Gospel Government which would be greater honour by far unto you P. 30. Heb. 6.1 The Evangelists office is higest and distinct from the Doctors Dr. The Apostle doth indeed distinguish between the fundamental doctrine and the doctrine of perfection shewing that he would speak of matters which did require more higher capacity and greater attention then these first principles did stand inâ—eed of he speaks of the difference of things to be taught Resp Thus far Mr. Doctor is forced to confesse and assigne to truth there is a necessity it s so plaine every eye may see it Dr. But now of different offices and officers of Teachers Resp What not Pastors and Teachers if no Evangelists Mr Doctor you will thus overthrow your Presbyterian building Dr. For he speakes of himself as Teacher of both only that in respect of time and different capacities the fundamentals were to be taught first and the superstructures afterward Resp If you observe Mr Doctor well he is almost come home the Apostle as an extraordinary officer may do all the parts of the Ministry but in doing them he did observe time and the Capacities of the peoâ—le that is in the infancy of Christians he taught as a Docâ—â—r giving milke and when to be of stronger capacitie to give them stronger meat tâ—e fundâ—mentals â—n order being to be taught first and the superstructures afte ward O that M. Doctor would or could shew us this Gospel way in practise amongst the Prâ—sbyâ—eâ—â— oâ—â—ut us in hope when it will be Dr. But from hence nothing câ—n be â—â—â—â—â—ted â—hich here you would serue out of it viz. That here should be a dividing â—f the Ministry to these severaâ— works as â—f one and the same man here is Mr Doctâ—â—â—â—â—aven all is like to be lost why pray let it go for Christ and the Gospel Mr Doctor should not intend both in resâ—ect of several hearers the same Ministerial work in the Paâ—toral and Doctoral charge is to apply it selfe to the young and old in catechetical exercâ—â—es to â—he 〈◊〉 and Prophetical exercises to the other Râ—â—p 1. What Mr Doctor nothing your self have inserted much â—ut hath Goâ— set up in the Church differing Ministries Eph. 4.11 and to these are there appointed several administrations 1 Cor. 12.5 and then several capacities accordâ—nâ—ly and yet I need to shew you away to screw them hence if they be clear in other Scriptures elsewhere againe these administrations are for severall works or operations 1 Cor. 12.6 and thus Mr Doctor your scruples about this all-along moved are satisfied if you are by clear Gospel truth satisfiable if not I must leave you to God 2. See how Mr Doctors Bels hang together here is the Pastoral and the Doctoral charge here are several hearers and these hearers of several capacities yet for to uphold a single Ministry one man must do it all 3. Mr Doctor had forgot the Hebrews were a Church society that were here wrot unto Heb 3. partakers of the heavenly calling brethren and holy brethâ—eâ— Heb. 12.22 and 5.12 and doâ—h Mr Doctor read that in the first 200 years of Ch ist the Catechist did at all Catechize men within the Church and baptized as these were who would thinke Mr Doctor were so deluded P. 30. Must not repentance c. Dr. This Quest and Resp to it and all the following discourse upon it it is to me so confused intricate that I can make no sence of it nor hath it any coherence with â—hat which the Apostle doth aime at in the place nor is it worth the consideration it is so silly and so weake Resp I wil not open these things but refer them to the Reader to judge where
Gospel order for as in Nature a man is first a child before a man though in honour a man is mentioned before a child so in the spirituall estate of Christians likewisâ— 3. As for that the Evangelist is said to be double I have already answered it to an objection already made there-against P. 16. Dr. All these following conjectures are so silly and so little worth the consideration that no wise man will spend time to refute them Resp Sir I did not spend the hundreth part of time to refute your prudential Presbyterian Government which hath but little of the Gospel patern in it at all Sir I tooke it a broad call your brethren to put it together againe if you can I provoke you to it and do not blind the eyes of the world and say They are silly things I will charge you with it your Wit and Learning cannot do it and therefore to save your credit you slight it but this will not serve you alway there is a day comming God will call you to an accompt for your Stewardship Luke 16.2 P. 16. on Colos 3.10.12.15 Dr. What he meanes by this example and to what purpose it is alledged I know not but I am sure he makes inferences from the Apostles words which are meer fancies and no wayes consistant with the Apostles mind in this place alledged for the Apostle doth not speak of the estate of the Church as it was a society but of the duty of every beleever as he is a member in Christ Resp 1. For the alledging it I did it to that purpose before I ever read Dionysius that he doth who shall tell you for me why I alledged it Dionysius chap. 6. Eccl. Hierar prioris autem vestis posiâ—io alteriusque assumptio migrationem illam à media vita licet sacra ad perfectionem significat sicut in divina regeneratione promotionem judicabat a purgata vita ad contemplautem illuminanâ—emque habitum illa vestis caudentis immutatio This was a received truth when Presbyterian Government as now it is was hid in the bottome of that bottomlesse pit 2. That the Church here is spoken of as to a Society I will maintaine according to my brief Analisis and exposition made on the whole Epistle in my Treatise of The Resurrection of fallen Churches as is made to appear which I provoke you to object against if you can P. 17. Dr. Suppose all these in the Paragraphs to be true how will the inference be made good that an Evangelist is a perpetual and ordinary ministry in the Church Resp 1. Methinks you should deal honestly with the truth and say they are true or shew wherein they are false to what purpose is your arguing in this kind else 2. How the inference will be made good that the Evangelist is a perpetual ordinary officer lieth at the Assembly door proved in my Letters waiting when you wil be at leisure to give them an Answer anâ— especially in that particular we have a proverb no man is so blind as he that will not see you need not enquire how Mr Doctor P. 17. 1 Thes 2.1 Our entrance Dr. From the particle our to infer were ministers joyned with him is no true ground the Apostle speaks of himself alone in the plurall number in many places 2 Cor. 10.1 2 3 4. and chap. 1. v. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 and elsewhere Resp 1. That the Apostle in this place had others joyned with him is clear Eph. 2.19 Paul Silvanus Timothy are those he calleth us and our in the whole Epistle 2. The Apostle speakes indeed himself but for Timothy and himself Timothy is joyned with him 3. By that chap. 1. with that whole leâ—ie of verses in our is the Church mentioned 〈◊〉 as in we Timothy and Paul in verse 1. Which proves he had others joyned with him and reason and sence will tell wherein ministers are one in the Scripture sence P. 18 Apply hence we may c. Dr. From the premises you may as wel conclude that there is a four-fold or five-fold administration in the ministry for if the number of Pauls co-adjutors be the medium of the argument then so many helpers as he had so many administrations there are hence it is clear you are an exâ—reamly weake man Resp Sir would it not be a wonderful shame that such a stronge man like that Philistime should be overcome by weak means nay weaknesse it self Sir if you wil not boggle with the truth I wil mainetaine that the Apostles helpers are the medium of the argument so that you understand it of such as at one and the same time and in one Church only did help him in the Ministry but who would think you would take all 〈◊〉 his helpers in several Churches to be accounted of as in one Church doe you 〈◊〉 the word in simplicity and Godly sincerity now I appeal to God and your conscience in these things P. 18. Comming to shew how the Extraordinary and Ordinary Administrations differ Dr. Haec omnia gratis dicta and doe not conâ—â—â—â— with that which hath been said formerly Resp Et tibi gratis concessa for before I only spake of the ordinary Church Ministry now of ordinary and extraordinary also and so you are never the wiser At first Christ administred to Apostles Apostles and Prophets to Evangelist Pastors and Teachers Evangelists to men Pastors to youth Teachers to infants Object You inserted not the Pastor and his administration Resp As the Apostle 2 Tim. 1.12 putting downe the two extreams of the Church Ministry comprehends the rest so in the first and last of the ordinary Church ministry is comprehended the middle P. 19. Dr. These allusions are no ground for a divine institution which at all hath not been shewed Ergo Resp Allusions nor nothing besides are any thing with you that serve you not Rom. 2.20 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where the Babe is under the Teachers ministry or administration the Pastor helps on to perfect us as youth that under the administration of the Evangelists ministry we may be men in Christ Eph. 4.11.12.13 applied to the whole Church ministry P. 21. John 21.15 16 17. Dr. This is like the rest of your arguments to find Misteries where there are none and to build arguments upon them is all along your way it may be granted and is a truth that there is a distinction between Lambs and Sheep and between theâ— feeding and feeding of Sheep 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differunt modo the first is properly to feed them with meat the other rule and guide them but all these duties are recommended to one and the same man and this instalement of Peter in his office by sufficient grounds to infer that which you would gather from thence in the same Pastoral and Doctrinal charge and this is to be done without the coyning of a new office Resp Mr. Doctor you must
be more and it was aproperty of the Evangelists office as distinct from the rest and extraordinary to be fixed to no place but to be fellow helpers to the Apostles 2 Cor. 8.23 Resp 1. Reader see how willing the Doctor is to catch at flies and observe the thing he quarrels at is no saying of mine but Chrysostomes on Eph. 4.11 qui occupabantur circa unum duntaxat locum ut Timotheus ac Titus he speaking before of Evangelists 2. For his Scripture being more to be looked after then his arguments 2 Cor. 8.23 Titus is Pauls fâ—llow-helper here he is not called an Evangelist nor was he but Pastor or Teacher in the Church with him onely 2 Tim. 4.5 Paul being to die bid him do the worke of an evangelist and before that time with Paul he never did it Paul in fellowship did that worke P. 7. Dr. Rule of the Schools is true quod Theologia Symbolica est argumenâ—â—tiva Resp Sir I despise not Learning nor the Schooles but the too much tying of men to the Rules of Schooles took away all knowledge and made men fooles heretofore I thinke no Scripture but is argumentive unlesse by the Scripture you overthrow my argument this is a fine way of Answering objections approved in the Schools but not in the Church P. 8. Dr. John's Ministry was medium quid inter legem Evangelium and made both one in that which was substanciall unto both Resp I approve of your learned distinction well which was in my Book made thus to your hand in English that he was not of Moses Ministry Mat. 11.13 nor of Kingdome Ministry ver 11. 2. But that he made both 〈◊〉 that is the Ministry of both one is a thing found out by long study in the Assembly who have found a way to make one two and two one as the Doctor in the Church and the Doctâ—r in the University to be meant in Epb. 4.11 as in your Propositions or for what end is it set there but to blind the world Dr. This is a silly weak Criticisme and there is more inferred upon it then it wil bear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ only in modâ— the same word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is publiquely declared in the name of God it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and as it is declared to men that are ignorant thereof it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is therefore no ground for a different administration for he that in respect of God is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in respect of men is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Resp 1. Sir If I did criticie it was not wilfully and so it may well be weakly but you do it over and over I do not tell you it is sillily done sure I am you have overdone it I am loath to shew you least you should be ashamed at it 2 Tim. 1.11 Paul is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here lest you criticks of the Assembly should make the ministry without the Church and that within the Church one he puts the Apostle between to keep them asunder and prove them too 2. Here in respect of God he is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is false Doctrine Mr Doctor the Apostle saith as Preacher and Teacher he was both in respect of his ministry to men onely and that in differing wayes of ministry the one before the Church ministry which began in the Apostles and ended in the Teachers so that my silly weak Criticism hath the strength of a Gospel truth in it and seemes to beat down your Antichristian Church administration Dr. The arguments which are taken from the order of words and names are of no force except the Scripture adde some Characteristicall note thereunto to expresse that it doth intend the order should be observed as in Eph. 4.11 it doth adde onely a note of distinction but in the 1 Cor. 12.28 it adds a note of order first second third and now Pastors and Teachers are not expressely distingished and from the other as the Apostles Prophets and the Evangelists are and whereas Eph. 4.11 Pastors are named before Teachers 1 Cor. 12.28 only Teachers are named and Evangelists and Pastors are not at all so that in the order of words there can be no great matter to ground such an inference upon Resp Mr Doctor you know my means is short so that I cannot be as large to satisfie the world or you as I would but thus briefly thus before you perverted the Scripture now you seek to take away the glory of it Sir the word is divine not only materialiter but 〈◊〉 formaliter and yet you dare say arguments are not to be taken from the order of words and then come to set Ephesians and Corinths one to oppose the other when indeed they both oppose you shewing you none but Apostles are of the first ranke and so are distinct from Prophets of the second for the third they are all Teachers among which the Evangelist is one with the Pastor and Teacher of which one is not more extraordinary then the other Sir pray see my Letters to the Assembly these are both at large and satisfactorily laid down in them 2. You observe the Pastors and Teachers are not distinguished by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Evangelists and Pastors yet you and the grossest Papists allow of Pastors and Teachers not distinguished but confound Evangelists that are is this of God in your Assembly P. 9. Now for an insertion laid downe in my Book that the Ministry without the Church is to be continued stil to prepare for the Church ministry Mr Doctor saith this consequence is so very weake that it deserveth no answer and the ground of it is taken away by what hath been said before Resp Mr Doctor hath quickly done with the businesse but I cannot but wonder that wise men should dally with the truth and deceive the world That Scripture 2 Tim. 1.11 will one day rise in judgement against some men of these dayes I pray look unto it well you that are concerned in it Dr. If a calling of men fitly qualified and setting them apart according to the word maketh men ministers then we have a ministry but the antecedent is true Ergo the Conseâ—ence Resp I denie your major first that your calling is not according to the word nor are you set a part according to the word nor are you members of a true visible constituted Church and so cannot be in that kind fitly qualified but of this pray see my book called The mistery of the Ministry Dr. Also the office of a Pastor and Teacher is undoubtedly ordinary and by his owne confâ—ssion it presupposeth a Church in which it is exercised hath not the Church continued ever since the Apostles Resp I would you would learn to confesse the truth also as I do but Sir though I confesse they are ordinary Teachers yet I confesse not
that they are so ordinary as to be any where but in a true visible Constituted Church only which hath or ought to have the Evangelist also in ordinary As to the Question I Answer there hath not been this 1240 year a visible Church in which rightly have been the true Church ministry and right Church constitution though there hath been an invisible Church through all the time in the world 1 Cor. 12.28 God hath placâ—d in the Church these but not out of the Church Dr. The warrant we have is a lawful call to the ministry the Apostle James doth forbid a masterly elusorious way of teaching as is clear by the whole sequel of his discourse Resp Sir The smoke of the Temple offends your eyes yet ye cannot see clearly your Church is no true Church nor that it is as you found the Antichrist of Rome leave it and is no better for its constitution then Rome's Church is Now such as your Church is your call is and such your ministry It is true Indeed James forbids a masterly Teaching and such is yours Sir for you Teach in the Church so by your single Ministry as you have no example in the Scripture for it As for James his Church Church ministry there spoke of was the same with yours not a company of Saints but adulteresses and adulterers Jam. 4.4 persecutors and blasphemers James 2.6 7. their tongues set one fire of hel ful of cursing and bitterness Chap. 3.6 9 and no where called a Church in his Epistle Sir it seemes the more I rub your eyes the worse the smoke troubles youâ— John's first Epistle was written to another manner of Society Dr. It is true Paul did all because every officer of a superiour degree hath authority to do the actions of the inferiour but where are we forbidden to teach must not a minister be chosen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 Tim. 3.12 Resp 1. He did them all until the Church was constituted where he was but when he had others to Teach and labour with him he took not their worke out of their hands 1 Cor. 1.14 thus Peter Acts 10.48 2. That ye are forbidden to Teach without a lawfull call that is Anticristian 〈…〉 yeâ— you are forbid to Teach as you doe 2 Cor. 10.13 we that is Paul Silvanus Timothy 2 Cor. 1.19 in the name of the full Church ministry Paul saith we wil not boast of things without our measure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mr Doctor pray observe in one Church every minister hath a measure allowed him to Teach by which is laid out as by a rule of which in ministry every man is not to take what he wil as you do but God hath parted to each ministry his doctrine in the Church yea to the Apostles when they taught as ordinary Teachers and to those that taught with them to which Paul alludes 1 Thes 2.4 as we were allowed of God there is a Gospel allowance to Teachers what they should Teach and yet Bishops chosen by teaching that doctrine he was to be called to teach in the Church and not by others P. 10. Dr. Here is no mention of an Evangelist at all how then is it proved hence that he is a perpetual and assistant minister in the Church and if as he saith The Apostle doth speak here of publique Church Ministry and doth not name an Evangelist in it then the argument is strong against him that an Evangelist is not an ordinary publique minister Resp Mr Doctor seems profoundly to argue in this place against nothing pray consider it 1. That in this Scripture Rom. 12.6 7 8. is not mentioned the name of Prophet Pastor or Teacher which he cannot deny but yet are implyed here but because the Evangelist is not set down therfore he hath no place at all though the other may have having the Doctor 's leave 2. The Prophet in prophesy which was before him is implyed and the Pastour in his work of exhortation that comes after him and the Doctor in teaching is implyed And there is Ministry for one in the Evangelist's place but he must not be there unlesse he be set down an Evangelist though all teaching and his emmenter may be called Ministry Sir here cannot be understood any other Church-Teacher whatever nor your Church-Deacon or supposed Elder these follow in vers 8. in giving and ruling Sir I pray take heed of your taking too much liberty in making the Scripture speak against themselves if you forbear that I am sure they will not speak for you at all here Dr. This is a silly and irregular thought for how can a Church be constituted before God give gifts Shall we make Evangelists before God makes them All Pastors and Teachers are in a generall sent Evangelists that is publishers of the Gospel but not in a peculiar sent as he would have the Evangelist to be Resp Reader the cause of the Doctor breaking out into this silly cry is for that in my Book pag. 10. is written whereas the Apostle saith there be divers gifts from this Rom. 12. I think if ever a Church were rightly constituted greater gifts would be bestowed on men then since the Apostles 1. The Doctor understands not that God hath distinguished the Church gift from the Heavenly gift the Church gifts are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which are given to men by the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the divine gift God had given them to minister the Church gift by which is the severall cals of the Church ministry Evangelists Pastors Teachers and thus indeed the Church is not to make before God hath made them but after 2. For what cause the Doctor troubles himself about Pastors and Teachers being Evangelists having before written of it and so few unworthy observations of a Doctor and up with it so often shews he wanted matter to object and that the man is mightily troubled about the Evangelist in his mind Dr. This Paragraph is to me a piece of nonsense for I knew not what he would say in it or how it is coherent with this former discourse Resp If the Doctor be silly as he makes himself I wonder he would take upon him in so unworthy a way to send down his notions in so secret a way to disgrace me and my writings privately amongst the ignorant multitude it had been more honour having been provoked to the presse or print to have published some worthy work in defence of their Presbyterian Government set out in the Propositions which I printed against or against that form of Church Government I added to it or prove their Government by the practice of the Primitive Church and disprove that in my Treatise of the resurrection of faln Churches and not in seeking to correct truth for errour in a Book make ten errours when he proves none but the not understood nonsense he talks of is in this The Church ministry is set out oft times by one word in
the Doctor could not understand it or rather would not as being a fine way of evasion it had been his wisest way to have done thus with all that he could not obâ—ect against which is materially against him as the rest P. 32. 1 Tim. 3.14 Dr. This place is neither rightly alledged nor applied rightly to the Apostles scope Resp The former part of the words were not truely Printed the latter which hath that which was intended are rightly obtained to themselves a good degree in the house of God which was to shew that any office in the house of God was of great honour and men should be content with any therein though the lowest P. 34. Heb. 14.17 Dr. The Apostle writes to all the Hebrews in the world Resp Mr Doctor how doth this appear I wil not take your word for it was Heb. 5.12 said to the Jewes of all the world or chap. 12.22 Dr. These had many leaders in several Congregations and he desires them respectively to be subject to them that is that each Congregation should submit to â—â—â— r â—wn Resp Mr Doctor Doth Paul write as John to the seven Churches or Peter to the dispersed in Galatia Capadocia c. that you dare affirm this you doe on these tearms and at last for your parochiall liberty or all were lost Doctor From hence you will infer because the word Leaders is in the plurall number that every congregation hath many leaders which is very weak Resp From whence shall I inferre but from the Scriptures James 5.14 and I provoke you to shew in all the Scripture where the whole Church Ministry are spoken of of any Church and are not set down in the plurall number and M. Dr. to say they should be in every Congregation is a conclusion of your own and none of mine I say in every Church as for the weaknesse of it I know it is not the weaker for your blowing on it But M. Doctor What think you of Acts 14.23 they ordained them Elders in every Church 1. these not Nationall Churches 2. Nor were they Elders ordained Doct. Then you say that these leaders are to be meant by the ministring officers and not ruling Elders by verse 7. but that verse doth speak of those that guide and rule _____ and no ruling Elders should be no others then such as are able to speak the word on occasion nor should those that speak the word be without a guiding and ruling authority for the leading is to be according to the word and by it which makes the Doctor and the Pastor to be the same Resp Mr Dr. the _____ are all here spoken of either ruling Elders or teaching Elders I speak according to your own distinstion but that they are teaching and not ruling Elders verse 7. They have spoken to you the word and for that conceit that the ruling Elder should be such 1. I require you to sâ—ew me the constitution of ruling Elders 2. The command or practice that any was to or did do such a thing if not Sir you doe but undervalue your selfe to write such things at all 3. You come with your old device and find away out of this text and every text to make the Doctor and Pastor â—nâ— but let me mind you if by divine institution they are two you wrong the truth and your self and the Church also to make them one and here spoke of as of diverse persons Sir I shall ingeniously confesse that of all the books I ever read of my little reading I never read any man that endeavoured to make Pastor and Teacher one as you have all along done and altogether opposite to the truth yea the Assembly propositions Adeo dat Eph. 4.11 the two last ordinary and perpetuall that is the Pastor and Doctor Wollebius Pastores Ecclesiis Doctores Scholis Praefecti Eph. 4.11 Arminius disp Theol. Corrol 59. mâ—diate vocati Pastores Doctores Episcopi Praesbyteri qui certis Ecclesiis sunt praefecti Calvini Just lib. 4. cap. 4. ex ordine Praesbyterorum partim eligebantur Pastores Doctores Bilson Vide Zanch praecep 4. cap. 19. and the Churches practice in New-England Pag. 35. People Ministers and ordinary ministry Doct. O these allusions and applications are no proofs of the point Resp which Dionysius they are as I have since the writing of my book read to good satisfaction and many more of the Antients though the Doctor saith it is nought P. 35. That the man of God may be perfect 2. Tim. 3.16 17. Doctor This perfection is the end and effect of the foregoing usefulnesse of the Scripture and from thence is to be inferred that by the Doctors and Pastors office rightly used the man of God will become perfect Resp M. Doctor Why do ye not adde the Evangelists offici you may as well for the Doctor nor Pastors office is not rightly used in your Presbytery but these rightly used with the Evangelist through the effect and usefulnesse of the Scripture make the man of God perfect Doctor And therefore none other distinct office in ordinary is requisite to infer because the word perfection is here used that therefore an Evangelists office is intimated as a meer fancy Resp 〈◊〉 Doctor 〈◊〉 Pastor is not mentioned yet they are allowed but there is no allowance for an Evangelist an ordinary Church-minister no less of God intended then the rest but is still cast off by Mr Doctor for and with the reproach of fancy notion whimsy P. 36. Evangelized Christian man Doctor What this Evangelized Christian man is distinct from him that is taught and governed I know not neither do I believe you can shew Resp M. Dr. As in Adam so in Christ there are differing statures you may being a rationall man understand the one by the other now as he differs in stature from children so should the administrations differ that are administred in the Church to him accordingly 2. That this Evangelized Christian should differ from one taught and governed by the Gospel is a conceite of your own and none of mine P. 26. 1. Doctrine is not for all but babes only 2. Exhortation for young men only Evangelical ministry for perfect men only Doctor Is not the teacher and the exhorter a Gospel minister this is a fancy indeed which hath no ground Resp Mr Dr. See Rom. 12.6 7. Prophesie is for the Prophet ministry for the Evangelist Teaching for the Teacher exhortation for the exhorter and is not the exhorter or teacher a minister in this place and is not this a fancy the Apostle speaks in this place or what saith the other then said before P. 36. 1 Cor. 4.1 Of that men are Ministers they are stewards onely the Dr. of doctrinall part the Pastor of the pastorall c. Doctor Is not the doctrinall of the Evangelicall part of ministry Resp The Gospel ministry is Evangelicall all but is divided into three parts by God in the Gospel one being not more Evangelicall then the other Doctor Why do you leave out the practicall which is the Pastorall charge Resp It s well you are so sensible as to misse one in my writing you doe not miss two in your Church one is enough you know not what to doe with any more but see Mr Dr. 2 Tim. 1.12 puts down Apostle the first of the Church ministry and Dr. of the last and under these comprehends the rest and will you not allow me this if not I will take it Dr. There is no more requisite but faith and obedience which two are wrought out by the doctorall and pastorall administrations what use is there of this Imaginary part of the Exangelist distinct from both Resp Mr Dr. Faith and obedience are ministred under Teacher Pastor Evangelist one as well as the other according to the capacity of those are taught each one by degrees perfecting Faith and Obedience in the Saints the Doctors Teachers faith and obedience to Saints as children the Pastor as young men the Evangelist as strong men and not as the Doctor dreams one teacheth faith onely the oâ—her obedience Thus the Dr. having done with my book I have done with him untill he please to rejoyn and begin again only this I commend to thee Reader that that which followeth in my Book did more particularly strike at presbytery which the Doctleft to some other to do or to some other time to do or afraid it may be it would trouble his mind to study it or what ever it was he thought he had done enougâ— in this for once and so have I at this time Vale. If thou hast any knowledge of thâ— truth of the Gospel hereby at all FINIS