of Christ we own them so but to raile at any we deny unlesse you will call such Language as Peter spoke to Simon Magus spoken by the same spirit to be railing and with them have we unity but against thee and such as thou art do we bear testimony for severall reasons they were redeemed from all Iniquity but ye are drawing iniquity with cords of vanity The grace of God had taught them to deny ungodlinesse c. Your abhominations reigne they were saved by the vvashing of Regeneration but your sin hath eaten out all the Divine svveetnesse of regenerating and sanctifying grace and so by their fruits of holinesse were known to be what they profest but your works of wickednesse deny God though in words you confesse him witnesse Tiverton writing and Paul bids Timothy stir up the gift that was in him Query 10. Why is it not lawfull for Saints now to be raised on in the way of holinesse by imitation or example and as a meanes or a help as well as in the Primitive times according to these Scriptures Mat. 11.29 John 13.14,15 Phil. 3.17 2 Thes 3 9. Answ Christ is given for an example and is a perfect pattern for his to follow and the Saints are to be followed while they walk so as they have him for example but the word Imitation we finde not in the Scripture nor the practice as we take it unlesse the Magicians of Aegypt the sons of Sceva and such like and the Scriptures beforementioned we own Query 11. Whether it be not a cunning device of Satan to judge and condemn all the Saints to be formall and without the spirit of Christ that walke in the Ordinances of Christ on purpose to cause contempt and reproach upon both Christ and his Ordinances Answ Yea it is and as cunning a device likewise of Satan to perswade persons in a form that they are Saints walk in the Ordinances of Christ are set for the defence of the Gospel and yet abhominations reign in them iniquities apparently written in their fore-heads and are drawing iniquity with cords of vanity while they confesse to wait for the counsell of the Lord. Now such as come to the Light of the world and follow it are led out of both into the practice of the true Ordinance and worship whch is in Spirit and Truth Query 12. Whether as the Ministry of the legall Ministration was to open the law of that Ministration Nehem. 8.4.8 So the Ministers of the Gospel are not to have respect to the written rule of the Gospel and to open and apply the same rightly dividing the word of truth according to 2 Tim. 3.15,16,17 Answ The true Ministers of the Gospel are not Ministers of the Letter but of the Spirit and they know the Law written in the heart and have the anointing dwelling in them whose teaching they are to follow and speak as the spirit gives them utterance and then they rightly divide the word of truth Query 13. Whether if any speak not according to the Law and the Testimony it is not because there is no light in them Isa 8.20 Answ They that speak not according to the Law and the Testimony are turned from the light for the Law is light and the Testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy 14. Qu. If all have the true light in them which leads to God why doth the Apostle say Ephes 5.8 Ye were sometimes darknesse but now are ye light in the Lord Answ The true light lighteth every man that cometh into the world He was in the world and the world knew him not but unto as many as received him unto them he gave power to become the sons of God and the light shined in the darknesse when the darkness comprehends it not but a time is witnessed that God commands the light to shine out of darknesse Qu. 15. Whether Christs ascending into heaven when he was taken up in a clond Acts 1.10 be meant that he ascended into the hearts of men Answ It is meant as it is spoken and the Saints have their conversation in heaven and are in Christ and Christ in them John 17. 16 Qu Whether his sitting at the right hand of God making intercession for the Saints be in the hearts of Saints or in heaven Answ The glorious God at whose right hand Christ sits fils heaven and earth and dwells in the Saints whose conversation is in heaven as the Scriptures witnesse 17 Query Whether the Scriptures do not make a reall distinction between Jesus Christ and the Spâ—…t John 16.13,14 Chap. 14.26 Chap. 5.39 Answ The Scriptures testifie that Christ is the Word and that the Father Word and Spirit are one 18 Query Whether God or the Spirit be at all called man or the Son of man the seed of David as Christ is and whether you own Christ to be indeed truly a man of flesh and blood as we are according to Heb. 2.14 Answ Christ is called the Son of Man and he saith I and the Father are one And unto us a Son is borne his name is the mighty God c. And unto the Son he saith Thy throne O God c. And the man Christ Jesus do we own and his flesh and blood do we witnesse which is meat indeed and drink indeed Yea him we own according to Heb. 2.14 but not as you are for he was perfect without spot without sin but ye are wicked your abhominations reigne are drawing Iniquity with cords of vanity Iniquity apparently written in your foreheads as by your own confession appears in Tiverton writing but in his mouth was found no guile Now the wicked think that God is like unto them but he will reprove them and set their sins in order before them 19 Qu. Why the Saints if perfest as you pretend were so much in the sense of sin and confession of it as we finde they were Ps 32.5 Isa 6.5 Rom. 7.24 25. Answ The Saints as they declared a sense of sin so also a purging healing and deliverance from sin as Isa David Paul and others whom the Scriptures witnesse and as they confessed so they forsook and found mercy 20 Qu. Whether a lowly self denying frame of the spirit sensible of finne and corruption and warring against it be not the frame of spirit that most of all becomes the Saints and is most approved of God in Scripture as Isa 57.15 Mat. 5.3 Rom 7.24,25 Answ We know that the Lord dwells with him that is of a contrite spirit and an humble heart and the poor in spirit are blessed and are approved of God even they and onely they that deny selfe daily but there is no peace to the wicked and they do not war against sin whose abhominations reign but they war against Christ who are drawing iniquity with cords of vanity 21 Query Whether this temper of spirit be found in you yea or nay Answ Yea lowly self-denying and truly poor For we suffer the losse of our
blood of Christ and they that discern not this body eat and drink their own damnation he that hath an eare to hear let him hear and under his Banner we fight against the Beast false Prophet Deceivers and all the Nations of the world now united together against him Our weapons being not carnall but spirituall mighty through God to the casting down of strong holds and high imaginations whose daily Crosse we witness to be the great power of God to salvation who lives and dwels in us and whose peace none can ever take from us and who shall dash his enemies in pieces and grinde them to powder before whom Nobles doth bow and Kings cast down their Crowns whose scepter is a scepter of righteousnesse and of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end unto whom be glory for ever and ever And this is the truth spoken from our hearts the Lord bearing us witnesse and this is the true way decreed by God for attaining of justification which we have seen and heard and are witnesses of and is no principle of delusion but held by us truly as it is in Jesus according to the Scriptures of truth and so Thomas Collier hath wronged the innocent for which he must account Another of the particulars falsly charged on us is that we have set up another way for the attaining of Justification that is by Quaking c. This is onely affirmed in his Dialogue but no proof mentioned and in his Glasse he endeavours thus to prove it that this is true is evident and apparent in that they have affirmed that their Quaking is the spirit of burning through which all must passe to enter into Righteousnesse and Justification c. Let the Reader minde this proof he saith it is evident and apparent by what evidence If persons will take an impudent false affirmation for proof then it is evident and apparent but not otherwise by what is produced he saith they have affirmed it who is it what particular person we and many others deny it and own no other way but what we have already declared and it 's very likely if he had heard such a thing from any particular person he would have mentioned it in his Dialogue or his Glasse and so he appeals to the understanding for judgment but we say he that judges this a proof to say they have affirmed it is void of understanding And if T. C. had not been blinded with envy arrogancy and impudency he would rather have confest his lye then have persisted in his obstinacy but at last he calls I. N. to justifie this in his answer to the Dialogue Now this must be granted that the Dialogue was published before there could be an answer to it and the charge was laid in the Dialogue and so laid without proof or cause And can any one in reason take J. Naylers Book for a witnesse when in that Book he returns this to be one of the Lyes charged by T. C. on the people called Quakers and no such words in his Book as to say that the Quakers have set up another way to attain Justification by that is by quaking c. He alledges the 15 page but there is no such thing affirmed This he saith that all that do declare the way they came to God witnesse quaking or trembling and all that knew the word of God trembled at it Do he here say that the Quakers have set up quaking as a way to attain Justification T. C. might blush at such impudency if he had not got a forehead that could not Another lye by T. C charged on us is that we have outed Christ in the great work of justification and no lesse then trample under foot the blood of the covenant counting it an unholy thing or at least too unholy to look to it or expect justification by it this he affirms in his Dialogue Now in his Glasse to prove it he saith if the preaching of it be Stories and Blasphemy this is a trampling of it under foot c. And if Sanctification and Mortification be the fulfilling of the Law and the creatures justification then the blood of Christ is laid aside For answer we say that T. C. and such as he makes the preaching of it a story If any in taking upon them to preach Justification by the blood of Christ to other while abominations reign in their own souls and are drawing iniquity with cords of vanity as is exprest in Tiverton writing before mentioned and as for Sanctification and Mortification to be the fulfilling of the Law and the Creatures justification is not proved by T. C. that the people called Quakers own any such thing but we say such as imagine to themselves a Justification without Sanctification and Mortification shall be scattered in their imaginations being no other but filthy Dreamers deceivers and being deceived and are blinde leaders of the blinde and shall all fall into the pit together Now consider what greater Agents can the Devil have for his Kingdome then such who preach to others or expect to themselves Justification without Sanctification and Mortification taking and what in them lies giving liberty to themselves and others to live in lust but the grace we own and witnesse teacheth us to deny ungodlinesse and worldly lusts and so Justification Sanctification and Mortification is all the work of God by Christ and none may conclude they have one without all Faith without works being dead As for our owning the blood of Christ we refer it to what we have said in our answ to the first particular But T.C. goes on in his wickedness adding sin to sin lye to lye and saith pa. 3. it further appears in that all that will own them must deny all their faith and justification in Christ crucified Verily except thou repent God will smite thee thou lying tongue he will destroy thee for ever he will take thee away and pluck thee from thy dwelling place and root thee out of the land of the living and give thee thy portion with lyars who hast herein out-stript all that have gone before thee that have come to our view If thou canst produce one example that ever any were invited to own or refused to be owned by us on any such termes or let shame and confusion cover thee for ever But he is still running on in his lying false accusing like the horse into the battel saying hence it is they judg and condemn all but themselves because they have found out another righteousness So that indeed and in truth they account the blood of the Covenant too unholy for them to look at for justification neither do they ever teach remission of sins by faith in the blood of Jesus Very many people can in this bear testimony against thee and surely we say didst thou know that blood and faith in it thou wouldst witnesse victory over and cleansing from those abominable lies Now let any rational
to such a purpose because I. N. saith Iudgement passeth upon all that is in the creature contrary to the life of God and his judgement must passe upon all that is unrighteous and they live in that which is for fire and condemnation Doth therefore he or the people called Quakers deny the Salvation or Damnation of persons If in this T. C. had been faithfull to I. N. he might have found in the same Book concerning Judgement speaking of the wicked with that which you hate shall you be condemned with other vvords to that purpose And in the same Book concerning the Resurrection he thus saith Think of this you wicked workers who live and dye in your sins and yet please your selves with talking of the Resurrection c. A wofull day will it be unto you who are found in your sins and in love of the world you prophane Esaus and cursed Nimrods c You hypocrites who professe God in words but in works deny him c. A terrible day will this be to you who dye in your sins And speaking of the children of Light he saith That in him we might be found at that day in whom we looke for a better resurrection which did we not see to be an unmeasurable reward we have an opportunity to return c. And if our hope were onely in this life we were of all men most miserable and many other words to the same purpose And now that T. C. or any other should be so impudent as to charge the people called Quakers for owning neither Salvation nor Damnation of any person and be so blinde to produce J. N. for a witnesse who so evidently declares that he owns both And this further we say A day we own wherein every man shall receive a due reward according to their works done in the body whether good or evill Even in that day which God hath appointed to judge the world in righteousness when the wicked shall not be able to stand in judgement nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous Yea a day when all that are in the graves shall hear the voyce of the Son of God and shall come forth they that have done good to the resurrection of life and they that have done evill unto the resurrection of condemnation when a finall separation shall be witnessed and each receive his sentence Come ye blessed go ye cursed from which sentence there shall be no appeal nor flying from the execution thereof Oh consider this ye who are drawing iniquity with cords of vanity having abominations reigning in you and iniquity apparently written in your forheads Ye who now make it a light thing even to lead the innocent with lies slanders reproaches verily in that day shall your hands grow weak which now are strengthened one by another and your faces gather palenesse which now cannot blush Then shall all false coverings be ript off and all appear as they are In vain shall it then be for such to say Lord Lord we have preacht and baptized in thy name c. Nay hear your sentence Depart you workers of iniquity into everlasting fire c. Another lye by him charged upon us is That our principles are but the pinciples of the old Ranters vvhich are out of date revived and brought into credit again by a new dresse c. This he affirms in his Dialogue vvithout mentioning any proof And in his Glasse for a proof he saith That this is true I need not prove in this place Any that know the principles of the Ranters may easily discern it The Ranters would have no Christ but within no Scripture to be a rule no Ordinances no Law but their Lust no heaven nor glory but here no sin but what men fancied to be so no condemnation but in the consciences of ignorant ones c. And what the Quakers is more or lesse let their own consciences judge onely they smooth it over with an outward austere carriage before men but within are full of pride filthinesse abhominations which by degrees break forth witness Naylers Exaltation in the West Here is the charge and the proof of it but we are confident he that is svvayed by the least spark of honesty vvill not finde us guilty on this evidence He saith That this is true I need not prove had he said I cannot prove he had spoken the truth although to confesse himself a lyar and false accuser for envy and subtelty it selfe can never prove it and it 's very like if he had any evidence he would produce it but at last he saith Witness Naylers Exaltation in the West Let the Reader a little consider when this time was that he speaks of it was not untill about the ninth moneth in the yeare 1656. And I. N. had answered the Dialogue wherein this Charge vvas layd in the fifth moneth before and yet novv no evidence produced for proof of this particular but that vvhich he calls Naylors Exaltation in the West So it 's clear the charge vvas laid and continued about four moneths vvithout any evidence and as its likely if this Exaltation as he calls it had not been he had yet remained vvithout proof We further ansvver as to the particular vvhich he calls J. Naylers Exaltation in the West it 's sufficiently known to many that that action vvas not at all ovvned by those vvho profest and lived in the Truth and vvere called Quakers vvhich may more at large appear by George Bishops Book published in ansvver to Ralph Farmer But mark these Principles of the Ranters vvhich he saith are the principles of the Quakers One is The Ranters would have no Christ but within which we utterly deny and what we own and witnesse concerning Christ vve have already demonstrated Even he it is that vve bear testimony unto who fills all things and preached himselfe the light of the world which lighteth every man that cometh into the world vvho is the savation of all those vvho believe in obey and follovv him and the condemnation of all such vvho reject and disobey him Another of the Ranters Principles as he saith is No Scripture to be a rule We say that vvhich the Scriptures declares vvas the guide and rule of Saints vve ovvn and vvitnesse and the Scriptures of truth to be given forth by that Spirit vvhich could not erre Another No Ordinances The Ordinances of Christ we ovvn One Lord one Faith one Baptisme and his Crosse ordained by him vve daily witnesse which crucifies us to the world and the world unto us and its the great power of God to salvation Another is No Law but their Lust Thomas Colliers own principles as manifested by his practice and confession appears more like the Ranters then ours For the grace of God which hath appeared to all men hath taught us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live godlily soberly in this present world Now T. C. besides those many lyes and false accusations
Truth Vindicated AND The Lyars Refuge swept away Being an Answer to a Book set forth by THOMAS COLLIER called A Looking-glasse for QVAKERS and also to some particulars in a Book of his called A Dialogue c. Wherein the truth is cleared from those Slanders and Reproaches by him cast upon it and the Refuge of Lies swept away and upon tryal himself found guilty of many of those Evils which he hath falsely charged upon the INNOCENT Also an Answer to his Queries in the end of the Book called A Looking-glasse c. with some Queries returned to him to be answered Together with an Epistle to the people called Baptists with whom we sometimes fed on Husks But now are brought to the Fathers house where there is BREAD enough Published by us who love truth in the inward parts and are now called forth by the Lord to bear testimony against Deceit Unrighteousnesse and deeds of Darkness who have long wandered upon the barren mountains running from mountain to hill but now have heard the voyce of the good Shepherd and are brought to the true fold and known to this generation by the names of John Pitman Jasper Batt The lip of truth shall be established for ever But a lying tongue is but for a moment LONDON Printed for Thomas Simmons at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate 1658. Truth vindicated and the Lyars Refuge swept away THomas Collier a man long well known unto us who hath for some time profest himselfe a Minister of the Gospel or a Teacher of others saying that he is set for the defence thereof having published a Book which he calls A Dialogue between a Minister of the Gospel and an Inquiring Christian where in truth there was neither in which he undertakes to discuss the principles of the people called Quakers therein setting down several particulars as by them held and guilty of which they deny Neither hath he made any proof thereof but only said it which Book being answered by I. N. and Thomas Collier charged for uttering many Lies against the foresaid people and above fifty of them returned to him for a proof or to rest on his head untill the dreadfull day of account unlesse he timely repent Thereupon he hath published another Book which he calls A Looking-glass for Quakers in which he saith the truths asserted in that Dialogue are clearly proved and James Naylor and the Quakers are proved to be lyers and deceivers Now it is not the truths in that Dialogue if any there which he was called upon for a proof but the lies by him therein invented which yet remain unproved notwithstanding what is by him alleadged Now these Books coming to our view and by us examined and weighed and finding our selves concerned therein we being reputed by him under that name were pressed in spirit to publish this vindication on the Truths behalf which is by us owned and lies and lyars denyed But before we proceed further this is to be observed that we sent him a Letter dated the 19th day of the first moneth 1657. thereby acquainting him that such books we had seen published in his name expressing such particulars which we did declare in the name and fear of the Lord were not owned by us but denyed and the Author to be neither Minister of the Gospel nor Christian but a Lyar slanderer and false accuser And that if he did not disown the said books or confess that he had wronged the truth and us who own it or otherwise reasonably satisfie us in some short time either by word or writing we should as the Lord should direct and order publish our Innocency and some of the Authors wickednesse that so his Sheeps cloathing might no longer hide his wolvish nature Now there being a time and place agreed on and appointed by him and one of us for him to vindicate himself and prove the particulars before mentioned where was a meeting accordingly and where only four of those particulars debated Thomas Collier went away not mentioning any further or other time for debating the rest though it was then and still is by us denyed that what was then by him offered for proof of his Assertions to be any way valued for his purpose And now his Looking-glasse being his only Refuge that we know of which consists much of Lyes must be swept away unto the particulars whereof we are now come 1 That all our principles are delusions 2 That we hold not any principle of truth truly as it is in Jesus Now for proof of these particulars he saith that if that which follows be true then this is true and we may safely conclude that if that which follows be false then so must this That which follows is this that we forsake the true way decreed and ordered of God for the attaining of justification which is by faith in Christ crucified this is charged on the people called Quakers not one or some of them but the people called Quakers Now for proof hereof in his Dialogue he only says it but offers none In his Glasse he alledges James Nayler in his love to the Lost concerning justification where he uses these words That persons are so justified as they are sanctified and mortified and no farther And at other places he severall times expresses Mortification and Sanctification before Justification And at another place That by which the just lives is that by which the creature is justified And so T. C. sayes that it is James Naylers great work to make Sanctification Mortification and Justification to be one and Justification to depend on Sanctification and Mortification The work that we have in hand is not to vindicate persons but truth and if any one should forsake the true way decreed and ordered of God for the attaining of justification Is that a sufficient ground to say the people called Quakers do so Is there any one or more that hath set out any writing by appointment and signed in the name of the people called Quakers as T. C. and others did a writing in the name and by appointment of the Messengers of the Churches at Tiverton the 18th day of the 7th moneth wherein such a thing is declared as to forsake Christ the way to Justification then there might be some ground for such a charge but further the truth declared by James Nayler in this particular we own and he that with an impartial eye views his writing will never finde any such thing by him declared as T. C. falsly charges for J. N. saith that the wisdome of men in the fall finding these severall words in the Scripture hath in their imaginations run them into division and separated that which is in one and cannot be divided in the possession for it is one that worketh all these and that which sanctifies that mortifies and the same justifies and so his drift is not to make Justification to depend on Sanctification and Mortification but all on the just one and so
to discover the vanity of such a people who would conceit a possession of justification without sanctification or mortification like the Authors of that Writing from Tiverton who say they are joyned to the Lord and yet confesses abominations reigning in their souls drawing iniquity with cords of vanity A light spirit slavish fear mockers of God living short of the true sight and sense of Gods Majesty a wretched worldly spirit coldnesse and deadnesse on their souls formality in holy duties indifferency Laodicean spirit without the sense of the work and true travail of soul as in that writing with more such fruits is exprest Now J. N. clearly lays the work of justification sanctification and mortification on Gods righteousnesse saying it is the work of God wrought by Christ and they who had received the Spirit were called to all these by faith in his blood And in what he writes concerning Redemption in the same Book he saith All who knows the redemption of Christ by his precious blood c. And in another place Who hath redeemed us to God by his blood and so it 's clear by his words as he expresseth them without T. Colliers Expositions that he lays the work on Gods righteousness wrought by Christ and why should T. C. conclude a meaning from some of his words contrary to his own expressions but the thing is very probable that he had laid this charge from his own imagination before he had ever seen J. Naylers Love to the Lost Another testimony he offers for proof of this particular is what himself heard as he saith at a meeting of ours at a place called Himmington but it 's like it was intended Limmington where he and another as he saith taking occasion to hold forth Christ amongst them they heard with patience untill they came to hold forth justification through his blood Then their Teacher cryed out blasphemy and said that they spake stories to the people and denyed the spirit by which they spake There coming to the meeting and speaking there of justification by the blood of Christ is confest and their preaching of that which they knew not might well be called stories but that our friend Christopher Holder called Justification through the blood of Christ Stories or Blasphemy is utterly denyed as severall do witness who were then present and do affirm that our friend said he owned the words but their spirit he denyed for them to talk of that which they were ignorant of might well be called Stories the Prophet saith Jer. 5.2 Though they say the Lord liveth surely they swear falsly Dare any say the Prophet denyed the Lord lived Now for such whose abominations reign are drawing iniquity with cords of vanity c. as T. C. confest of himself since that time witnesse Tiverton writing We say for such to take upon them to preach Justification through the blood of Christ Their testimony is by the truth in us denyed and may well be called stories they blasphemers and the Lord will say to such what have you to do to take my words into your mouths And further we know that Christopher Holder at that time and believe yet doth if living own no other way for justification but Christ crucified by faith in his blood as the Scriptures declare and so both those which T. C. produces as witnesses for him are found bearing testimony against him and so the two first particulars and this which follows are found false We also say that if both those before produced by T. C. for evidence had declared the thing asserted which is utterly denyed yet could no rational unprejudiced man take them for sufficient evidence to prove the people called Quakers hold such principles And further we do declare for our selves and that which is also assented unto by the people called Quakers that this we own and witnesse Jesus Christ is come a light into the world that all men through him might believe and is the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world And whosoever follows him shall not abide in darknesse but shall have the light of life This is he who is the way to the Father and none can come to the Father but by him even he who was in the beginning before all things and by whom all things were made even he that was dead but is now alive and lives for evermore who is made unto the Saints sanctification and righteousness as well as justification and redemption and saves his people from their sins And they who are made witnesses of him know him dwelling in them and for that end made manifest to destroy the works of the Devill And all those who make a profession of his name and say he is their Redeemer Saviour or Justifier and have abominations reigning in their souls Iniquities written in their fore-heads and are drawing it with cords of vanity are Lyars and Deceivers for none can know him a Justifier but they who know him a Sanctifier and a Mortifier and whosoever knows his salvation from condemnation must know his salvation from sin This is that Christ we bear record unto the seed of the woman that bruises the Serpent head whose day Abraham saw and was the Rock that followed Israel of whom they drank The same the Prophets prophecyed of who was born of the Virgin in the City of David preached himselfe the light of the world the way to the Father was hated persecuted mocked reviled and delivered to be crucified by those who profest they were in expectation of his coming yet chose a Murtherer before him This is he who is the living bread that came down from heaven whose flesh is meat indeed and whose blood is drinke indeed and whereof whosoever doth not eat and drink have no life in them He that can receive it let him who was a man of sorrows acquainted with griefs his visage more marred then any mans of whom many were and are astonished was crowned with thorns crucified between Theeves was buried rose again and ascended far above all heavens and fills all things being glorified with the Father with the glory which he had with him before the world was the same to day as yesterday and for evermore who makes intercession for the Saints and is the Mediator of the New Testament even the man Christ Jesus and he that hath seen him hath seen the father also through whose blood we are justified and are redeemed from our former vain conversation and witnesse remission of sins who hath baptized us with the holy Spirit and is our righteousnesse with whom we have fellowship and with the Saints in light And they that walk in the light as he is in the light have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all sin who though we are many are one bread for the bread that we break is the Communion of the body of Christ and the cup that we drink is the Communion of the
man judge what proof here is more then the reiterating of a company of lies and therefore need no further answer Another of his Lies charged on us is That we have found another way to go to God by then Christ the Mediator this he affirms in his Dialogue and for proof says it over again in his Glasse and to it adds another lye That we disown Christ to be a man he adds further and sayes Naylor in his Love to the Lost where all their principles are stated such as they are yet there is never a one of Christs Ascention and Mediatorship Doth J. N. or any other except thy selfe say that all the Quakers Principles are there stated Thou hast said before they have set up another way to Justification then by Christ that is by quaking Dost thou find such a principle in that Book It 's like thou wilt not deny but the way to Justification is a principle And if we have set up quaking to be the way and all our principles be there stated then that must be one or thou must be a Lyar It were well if thou knew a bridle for thy tongue but because his Ascention and Mediatorship are not stated there as thou sayest doth it follow that they are denyed by the people called Quakers and then thou draws thy conclusion sutable to thy premises saying by all which it appears that they have indeed another way such a one as themselves have invented to go to God by and not by Christ page 4. By what doth it appear because thou hast said it here is nothing else remaining to prove it but who can believe thy testimony that art thus given over to lying except such as are as blinde or impudent as thy self He still goes on charging that they own not Christ in his Authority will not submit to him in his word In stead of hearkning to the voyce of Christ in Scripture they hearken to and follow after either the voyce of Satan or suggestings of their own deceitfull hearts within them and call this Christ and his voyce which they must and do obey though contrary to all rules of God in Scripture And instead of proving this with an audacious impudent face he asks the question saying Oh all you Quakers is this a lye too do you not witnesse it to the world that you hearken not to the voyce of Christ in Scripture nor obey him on the account of faith but to the voyce of Satan or at best your own deceitfull hearts though contrary to all rules of Scripture Will any rationall man account this a proof was ever such impudency heard of First to slander and accuse falsely and when called upon for a proof then aske whether this be a lye too What is it but as much as to say who dare deny what he affirms though never so false Can any of thy own followers be so blinde as to owne thee here And thou goest on page 4. filling up thy measure of lies saying you call it the light within the voyce of Christ the true Word c. when it is but your own lying fancies at the best witnesse your turning aside from all the glorious truths of Christ in Scripture And then for proof of all this beside thy own false affirmation thou bringest J. Naylers words in his Salutation to the seed of God Nor can your litterall promises sure your condition nor save you from Satans power Doth this any way tend to the proof of what is asserted that wee owne not Christ in his authority c But thou goest on as if thy main work were to invent lyes and saist by which he would give to understand that all the Scripture must be laid aside onely looking to and following the Lights within Didst thou ever hear of such a thing from any of those called Quakers as to presse any to follow Lights within Or is there any thing in those words of J. N. tending to the laying aside of Scripture but thy Master sets thee forth to manifest thy self We further answer the truth of the Scriptures do we own and witnesse the voyce of Christ have we heard to his authority are we subject and have his word abiding in us which is a light to our steps by which we come to see the deceit of our own hearts and are delivered from it by which also we see where all those are who are imitating the Saints recorded in Scripture without the life and power which they had and so are no better then those vagabond Jews who would cast out Devils because Paul others did but were void of that power and authority by which they did it For this we say in the name of the Lord there is many have and read the Scriptures but few know the commands of Christ of which sort are all those that know not Christ made manifest in them for those whom the Lord sent spake as the spirit gave them utterance and had the word abiding in them Acts 2.4 And the Saints knew the anointing in them which taught them all things and needed not mans teaching 1 Cor. 2.12,13,14 and so they did not steal the words every man from his neighbour but as they had received the gift so they ministred and if they had not received a word from the Lord they dare not speak a divination of their own brains but in the name of the Lord did bear their testimony against all such to be deceivers and such as run and the Lord never sent them for by their fruits they are known And by the same rule do we walk as they did even the spirit of Truth and not by another mans line And so as all are kept to this rule every one is kept in his place and so are serviceable to one head one Lord and Master Of the Apostles some were sent to preach and baptize another was sent to preach the Gospell and not to baptize Some were sent to the Circumcision and others to the Gentiles Now as they all were obedient to the commands they had received they discharged their duties and not like a generation of men in these dayes who are crying up the Scriptures but being ignorant of the commands of Christ intrude themselves into things they know not and runs on in a vain imitation of the Saints recorded in Scripture in outward observations and bodily worships but comes not to the life power and authority which they witnessed and are ignorant of the true guide and Leader And so many seeing in the Scripture what Paul or others of the Lords faithfull Ministers wrote unto particular persons or Churches according to their severall conditions or occasions take a part or parcell of it and read to their hearers or followers and then add a Divination of their own brains but the voyce of Christ or Word of the Lord they never knew and so they go contrary to the rules of Scripture unlesse it be in following the false Teachers
unless in contempt now if we never used it but in contempt can any one think that this would let in our principles and keep people from flying from us one time he saith they often use his name and another time they never used his name and then he drawes his conclusion from his own confusion saying by all which it appears that they use the name of Christ but as a juggle a cheat to deceive Souls by and indeed stab the true Christ and justification by him c. Such as is the foundation such is the building the foundation confusion and contradiction and the building a heap of abominable lyes and falsehoods he saith by all which it appears c. what by saying in the Dialogue they often use the name of Christ to let in their principles and then in the pretended proof of the same particular in his Glasse saith they never useth his name but in contempt what Babylonish work is here but still he goes on to fill up his measure saying all that believe in him you endeavour to crucifie and murther by your murtherous words and writings witnesse your setting up of Naylor to be the true Christ this we utterly deny and what Christ we own we have from the truth in our hearts declared and farther touching J. N. we refer the Reader to Georg Bishops Book before mentioned he farther produceth the words of E. B. in answ to John Bunnion Christ is within us slain in the great City c. he is now risen and ascended c. Now observe what doth this at all serve to prove the charge and yet again he concludes his proof thus they slay the true Christ if ever any people in the world have done it and so we shall conclude our answer to this particular and leave it to the understanding unprejudiced Reader to consider how vain and light the things offered by him are to prove what he asserts and whether we might not safely say that if ever one were given over to lying slandering and false accusing T. C. is The next lye by him charged on us is that we deny the birth from above by the Spirit Joh. 3.5 c. thus turning from the light of Christ shining in the scriptures they hearken to and follow the light of their own hearts Imaginations of their own minds instead of Christ this is his charge in his Dialogue but no proof at all mentioned there nor in his Glasse that we find by which it appears he cannot find any thing to say for himself and so passes this particular in silence it had been better he had done so by others then what he hath done instead of clearing himself of one lye added severall to it How ever farther to manifest the falsenesse of it we declare that the birth from above by the spirit of God we own and witnesse according to the scripture John 3.3,5 without which birth none can enter into the Kingdome of God and we speak that we know and testify that we have seen and now enjoy even that birth wch is brought forth through great travil many bitter pangs which the red Dragon seeks to devour this is the heir whom the Husbandmen seeks to kill the man-child who shall rule the Nations with a rod of Iron the King whose Throne is established in righteousness and of the increase of his Government and peace there shall be no end glory to his name for ever Another of his lyes charged in his Dialogue is that we are enemies to the true light but seeing he leaves this without proof both in the Dialogue and Glasse we shall leave it without answer upon his head to remain untill he prove it repent or be judged for it Another lye charged on us by him is that under the notion of perfection we are guilty of the great and damning sin of unbelief in his Glasse for proof he saith that this is truth what hath been already said is sufficient to manifest for if the Doctrine of Christ be stories then we may easily conclude what faith you own in him beside all your writings hold forth no other faith but a faith in Christ within you not on Christ without you and this is his proof He now begins to hang his work together towards the beginning he saith when he should bring his proof that which followes shall prove this and now saith that this is truth what hath been already said is sufficient to manifest the first particulars were to look for evidence from what followed and now this which followes must rest on that which went before and so one looking for help from the other are both helpless and fall together for how shall that which goes before prove this which followes when it hath no proof for its self what shifting is here some time bring the answer to the Assertions to prove them some time that which followes shall prove that which goes before and now that which goes before must prove that which followes bad shifts indeed but he concludes this sin you are guilty of and what hath been said is sufficient to make it manifest we say what hath been answered hath fully declared T. C. in what he said a Lyer and so his first particulars and this also remains without proof farther he saith all your writings hold forth no other faith but a faith in Christ within you not on Christ without you Can any reasonable man conclude otherwise but that T. C. hath uttered too lyes in this sentence first his words imply that he hath seen all the writings of the people called Quakers else how dare he say all their writings now if he hath not seen them all as who can believe he hath then he is a Lyer to say all their writings and yet here he mentions the writings of no one particular person and secondly holds forth no other faith but a faith in Christ within you not on Christ vvithout you and George Bishop in his Book intituled Jesus Christ the same to day as yesterday and for ever beares testimony to that Christ vvhich vvas born of the Virgin vvitnessed a good Confession before Pilate c and several other vvritings testifie the same c. And farther vve say that unto the same Christ do vve bear vvitness as vve have firmly declared but this vve also say that they that rest on talking of that Christ vvhich suffered at Jerusalem and come not to knovv him manifest vvithin them are but Reprobates Page 9. Other lies charged on us by him are That we set up another way of Salvation sacrificing to our owne nets proclaim that all that own justification in the blood of the Covenant are deceived trampling under foot the Laws and Ordinances of Christ judging all that walke therein to be enemies proclaiming their own rigteousnesse And then sayes all these have been sufficiently proved and are daily witnessed This we say some of them have been already falsely charged and sufficiently made appear
under sin and all that come truly to know Christ Jesus and faith in his blood know salvation and cleansing from sin who is made manifest to destroy the works of the Devill and to save his people from their sins And we know that God is true and is the avenger and punisher of lyes and Lyers Another of his lyes charged on us is that we destroy civil courtely as God hath commanded it and for proof saith that is proved in the Dialogue and their ovvn practice vvitness it levelling all conditions vvitnesse likevvise Magistrate people Husband Wife Parents Children Master Servant all alike no difference in the Quakers Religion witnesse George for in the latter end of his pretended word to the Gentiles c. he saith all to the light within c. Now mark his proof first he saith its proved in the Dialogue we say it s falsly charged in the Dialogue but no proof offered that we are guilty of it he there mentions several Scriptures which we own neither can he prove us guilty of the breach of one of them he saith also their own practices witnesse it Now if he means the vain practise of this Generation which is usually called Complements many vain wicked words used to no good purpose but in much deceit in pretending service and friendship when the contrary is intended and respect of persons such civil courtesy and vain customes we do deny and bear testimony against and so did the Saints recorded in Scripture The customs of the Heathen are vain and Christs flock were chosen out of the World and bore testimony that their deeds were evil And farther we declare that it is our duty and practise to do good unto all and the several conditions and relations of Magistrates and people Husbands and Wives Parents and Children Masters and Servants we own and practise according to the Scriptures and deny the contrary But he saith witnesse George all to the light within c. as if to direct to the light within were to destroy civil courtesy and level all conditions a wicked conclusion it being so far from destroying conditions and relations before exprest that it preserves them and such as are guided by it know and practise their several duties therein He farther saith a learned piece full of Divinity in Foxes account observe his light and scoffing Spirit the false Leaders mark and this scripture fulfilled in the last dayes shall come scoffers c. But T. C. goes on and concludes his evidence with an addition of many lyes saying that under pretence of perfection they have brought in a Religion made up of infidelity pride disobedience hypocrisy trampling of the blood of Christ under foot c. The truth of this hath been largly manifest in what hath been said and testified before from their own writings words and practises we say what word writing or practise hast thou produced of any of the people who professe and live in the truth that are called Quakers the falseness of what hath been by thee said hath been sufficiently declared by what hath been answered and thou found guilty of that hell-born sin of lying Which is the next particular by him charged on us and for proof saith witnessed that notwithstanding their infidelity pride disobedience c. yet pretend themselves perfect free from sin c. what evidence is this but three lyes produced to prove one for he saith their infidelity pride disobidience c. which is by us denyed and never yet by him proved and so both charge and evidence is sound false and how grosly guilty hereof himself is what hath been before proved against him is sufficient to manifest yet farther he goes on saying the truth of all is made manifest in that light that hath discovered them c. Now how contrary to truth this affirmation is we may leave to the impartial unprejudiced Reader to judge for there is several particulars returned to him by J. N. to rest on his head as lyes for which he offers no proof at all but layes them down in his Dialogue and not mention them in his Glass and how vain and insufficient the evidence by him offered for the rest is found we have sufficiently made manifest and yet he comes with even height of impudency and says the truth of all is made manifest c. And then he leaves it to the Reader saying be impartial and thou wilt be warned of the most dangerous and pernitious Principles that hath appeared c. The truth and true professors of it in former ages met with no better account from the enemies of it a sect every were spoken against Christ himselfe in whom was no guile found yet crucified as a Blasphemer and his Ministers and Servants accounted pestilent fellowes movers of sedition not fit to live such as turned the world up side down and we are not better then they but herein find the Scriptures fulfilled the Disciple is not above his Master c. And we also farther say let the Reader be impertial and we are confident he as many lyes affirmed in that Glasse as ever he saw in so small a volume beside the scoffing light absurd arrogant contradictory confused expressions therein contained And then in the 13. page he saith Naylor in his pretended answer runs over and sets down many particulars but answers none Let his Book herein bear testimony against thee that thou speakest false hath he not answered thee touching perfection the light other particulars as for that catalogue of lyes by thee charged on us and by him returned to thee what answer should be given more then to deny them while thou hast only charged and for the most part not so much as offered any proof for them T. C. farther saith only page 8. he forms something of his own invention c. That is that I did affirm the Scripture was Christ judge if Naylor be not a grevious Lyer to assert such a thing for answer We say there is no such thing asserted by J. N. in that page of his Book nor any other that we find nor any words tending to such a purpose and so still T.C. is found a grievous Lyer to affirm things so notoriously false Pag. 13. He farther saith Christ prayeth for none but such as believe through their word John 17.20 c. If Naylor or any of the Quakers do know of any converted to Christ since that time without a Bible or Ministry from the Bible Let them manifest it if they can c. I say God hath limitted us to a Bible We answer was Paul converted by a Bible or a Ministry from it Was it a Bible or Christ that Peter preached Act. 2.36 when three thousand souls were added to the Church Is it not the same way which he declares that the Prophets prophecyed of and were saved by even him whose day Abraham saw unto whom the Gospel was preached and was the Rock that followed Israel And so the
Apostles Was it a Bible or Christ that they preached to bring people to repentance by And so how art thou found here bearing testimony against the Scriptures and thy self setting up another way to conversion then what the Ministers and Apostles of Christ yea Christ himself preached who said I am the way to the Father and no man can come to the Father but by me And he was the same yesterday as to day and for ever Art not thou one of those who art searching the Scriptures and thinks therein to have eternall life but will not come unto Christ that thou mayest have life But thou sayest that Naylor reproacheth Christ in accounting the way of converting souls by the Ministry of Christ in the use of the Bible to be new Now J. N. doth not say that the Ministry of Christ is new but advances it above all other and is charging thee for setting up another way to Conversion then what is declared in the Scriptures of Truth who declared Christ the way and no other who was the foundation of the Prophets as well as of the Apostles And this we say there is many now in those dayes such as thou art which take a Ministry from the Bible and steale the Prophets Christs and the Apostles words which testifies of Christ yet never knew the Ministry of Christ But they run yet I sent them not saith the Lord therefore they profit not the people Out of thine own mouth be thou judged to be one of them witnesse Tiverton Writing where thou with others confessest that all your weapons are wrested out of your hands and the true Ministers of Christ had their Ministry from that which was before the Scriptures even from the word which was in the beginning and this the Scriptures witnesse But thou sayst The Scripture is the absolute rule of Saints the written Law as in the Old Testament so it is in the New and good it were for the Quakers if they could yet so own it We say that that law written is the present ministration and absolute rule of Saints For thus saith the Lord It shall come to passe in the latter days that I will write it in their hearts c. The fulfilling of which promises we are witnesses of even the Law of God written in our hearts which is to us an absolute rule For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision availeth any thing but a new creature and as many as walke according to this rule peace be on them c. And here we have the Scriptures bearing testimony with us but we do not know that T. C. hath any Scripture to bear testimony with him in saying That the Scripture is the absolute Rule of Saints and so the testimony of the Scriptures do we own but deny Tho Colliers He saith page 14. the denying his Book false Doctrine Lyes Antichristian another Gospel c. he can comfortably bear for his Lords sake His servant thou art to whom thou art obedient And while thy abhominations reigne and art drawing iniquity with cords of vanity for whom dost thou work He that commits sin is of the Devill And this know that according to thy work so shall thy reward be Therefore beware of dreaming on in a vain profession For though thou mayest say at the last day Lord Lord in thy name have I preached baptized c. yet workers of Iniquity must depart And then he saith page 14. That the light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world is the light of nature which all men have by Christ as in his Book is largely manifest and proved by Scripture For answer we say the thing is not manifest neither hath he proved it by the Scripture Indeed in his Book there is some of his own inventions and imaginations touching a light of Nature and Additions and meanings of his own put on the Scriptures but so far from being proved by Scriptures that there is no mention of a Light of Nature in the Scriptures produced by him nor in any other Scripture we know of but that which John a man sent from God saith is the true light which was in the beginning by whom all things were made he saith is the light of nature but whose testimony is to be received Johns or his let the spirituall man judge we adhere to John's and deny his He further saith page 14. Let Naylor prove that Christ lighteth all men with the saving light c. and rages at his blindness c. because he hath seen so far into the life of our Religion as to discover it which makes them startle and will prove their fall in perswading people that there is no other way then the light of the world to bring souls to God he instances John 8.12 We answer Oh wicked blasphemy will this prove our fall to perswade people that there is no other way then the light of the world to bring souls unto God verily this will be the fall of all that oppose it But whosoever builds here the gates of hell shall never prevail against him Christ saith I am the light of the world I am the way to the Father and none can come to the Father but by me But who said He is a saving light to all we say he is the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world according to John 19 And the same light which leads all those out of darknesse who follow him will be the condemnation of all those who reject and disobey him The same Christ who is set for the rising is also for the fall of many in Israel and not one light one Christ for the saving of some and another light another Christ for the condemnation of others but one and the same light Christ for both As for thy seeing into the life of our Religion c. verily the desire of our souls is that all might come to the knowledge of it but thou art yet ignorant of it for it is the mystery hid from the wise and prudent even Christ in us the hope of glory whose being in thee thou hast denyed and so art smitten with blindnesse and weariest thy selfe to finde the door Thou art thinking that we endeavour to hide our Principles and would not have them manifest when as that which we have received in the eare we declare on the house-top but the ground of blindnesse is in thy selfe who hast eyes and see not eares and hears not a heart but canst not understand for that wisdome wherein thou standest cannot perceive the things of God because they are spiritually discerned And until thou own him the light of the world as the Scriptures testifie of him thou canst never know the way to the Father nor see into the life of our Religion for our life is hid with Christ in God But thou sayest thou wilt admit him to be the Light of the world as in thy book is manifest verily thou must own him the light of
you eate my flesh and drinke my Blood you have no life in you if they eate and drinke it it was within them and for the Scriptures by thee alleadged the words without is not at all in them Quer. 2. Whether Christ by his Spirit in the Gospel Ministration do not lead Soules to the beholding of what Christ hath done without them for them yea or nay according to 1 Cor. 15.3 Acts 13.39 2. Answ The Mistery to be Manifested to the Gentiles was Christ in them and Paul travelled that Christ might be formed in the Galathians and the anointing dwelt in the Saints and Christs righteousnesse was to be fullfilled in them and know you not that Jesus Christ is in you except yee be reprobates and the Word without is not mentioned in the Scriptures by thee alleadged Quer. 3. Whether it be fair dealing for your teachers who pretend they own the Scriptures to call it litterall and deny it to be the word of God as Naylor in his love to the lost Concerning the word pag. 14.15 how often doth hee call the Scriptures the Letter as distinct from the word men say the Letter is it c. yet are not ashamed to call their false and nonsensicall sayings the word of the Lord wittness Fox in his word to the Jewes and another to the Gentiles concludes in both that this is the Word of the Lord to you c. and Burrough in his Trumpet his word must be the Word of God believe it those that list Answ If the Scriptures be written with Letters is it not Litteral and the scripture declareth that Christ is the Word of God and hee was in the beginning all things were made by him now where doth the Scripture say so of it selfe and if the word was in the beginning and all things made by it then it must of necessity bee distinct from the Letter now that we call our false and nonsensicall sayings the word of the Lord is false for hee hath not proved the sayings of George Fox or Edward Burrough alleadged by him either false or nonsensicall but if G. Fox Edward Burrough or any other did receive a Message from the Lord to Jewe or Gentile they might say thus saith the Lord and if they write it the writing is a Declaration of it Q 4. Whether there be not a difference between the Word God and the Word of God the Word Christ and the Word of Christ Answ In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and God was the word he was cloathed with a vesture dipt in blood and his name is the Word of God and Paul saith Ephe. 3.17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts c. and Coll. 3.16 let the word of Christ dwell in you c. wee make no more difference between them then Paul or John doth Q. 5. Whether God hath not ever since hee hath been minstering to men by a word or law written Required his people to walke according to the word or Law of the Ministration under which they lived Answ These are the last Dayes wherein the Lord hath according to his promise written his Law in the hearts of his people and this is the Ministration which the Saints live under the anointing dwelling in them and therefore to be obeyed the Mistery made manifest Christ in us the hope of glory Q 6. Whether God hath not broken to pieces and brought to shame all that have turned aside from the written word as a Rule And whether the Quakers be not now going down by the righteous hand of God as the Ranters have done before them Answ That Prophet is now witnessed of whom Moses testified and whosoever will not heare this Prophet shall be cut off yea and broken to pieces all those who will not have him to reigne shall be ssaine before him and although those who now heare witnesse unto him to be the Light the way the truth the word their King Prince Leader and Lawgiver whom this generation calls Quakers may be persecuted scorned reproached slandered scourged imprisoned and slain yet wee are not forsaken by the Lord but the truth prospers and many faithful witnesses are raised up to beare testimony against deceit and Deceivers and the hand of the Lord is with us and against all our Enemies but our Kingdome is not of this world for the Disciple is not above his Lord but the wicked may say there is no help for him in his God and that the Lord hath forsaken him Query 7. Whether seeing that Christ hath foretold that in the last days deceivers should come it might not be your wisdome yet once more to bring your Principles to the tryall of the sanctuary and not to be so over-hold and confident in your way especially there having been so many before you as confident as you whose confidence came to folly it 's never too late to repent if the Lord give grace Answ Deceivers we know are in the world and by their fruits we know them in that Writing from Tiverton thou hast markt out thy self to be one of them as that 's an infallible mark to cry peace to the wicked and art not ashamed to bid those rejoyce whose Iniquities are apparently written in their fore-heads abhominations reign are drawing iniquity with cords of vanity and tell them their King comes in righteousness and in peace More marks thre are of a Deceiver in that Writing which we refer the Reader unto there to minde And as for our Principles they are tryed and weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary yea tryed in the fire and for the Truth we are bold as Lyons and this confidence we shall never cast away The hope of the wicked shall perish but they that trust in the Lord shall never be ashamed and that repentance do we witness never to be repented of Query 8. Whether the 2 of Tim. 3.15 16 17. be not Scripture where the Apostle saith that the Scripture is able to make wise unto salvation through faith in Christ Jesus and is profitable for reproof for correction c. and is able to make the man of God perfect and thoroughly to furnish him to every good worke And if so why do you so much plead against the rules of Scripture and the Ministry that is according to the Scripture Answ Yea we own it to be Scripture and profitable and with it we correct thee who art found contrary to the Ministry that is according to it And seeing that it 's profitable for the man of God why dost thou plead so much against the Rules of Scripture who sayest perfection is not attainable here but it seems thou excludest thy selfe from being a man oâ— God Quer. 9. Whether Timothy and Titus were Ministers of Christ And if so why do you not rayl at them as well as at us who received their rule without them from the Apostle Paul and not from the Light within as you pretend Answ They were Ministers