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A35011 The second part of Babel's-builders unmask't in an answer to a false charge against W.R. and T.C. in a book entituled, John Penington's complaint, &c.; Babel's-builders unmask't. Part 2 Crisp, Thomas, 17th cent. 1683 (1683) Wing C6953; ESTC R10391 17,688 16

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do as they would be done by But these Ruling Foxonians do exceed the Church of Laodicea who were said To have a Name to live but these few have taken to themselves almost all the Living Names and High Titles that can be found in Scripture but the Life would do them more goodl more Life and fewer Titles read what was said to Laodicea Thou sayest thou art Rich and increased with Goods but knewest not that thou wert Blind and Naked Names of Living and saying they be rich are not such good Signs proud boasting swelling words bespeak not so much Christs Life as Is P. says to New-England They have long had a Form and it may be have eaten up the Power and they may not be so Savoury now in their Ease and Authority as under their Trouble and Persecutions and God may in kindness to them send among them a Foolish People to stir them up now their coming is not to scatter corrupt Opinions but by the Power of Truth to scatter that which scattereth from the Lord nor is it to draw to their way but to the Lord and the Living Way which they are exhorted to try before they receive So that all who Endeavour to promote Forms more than Peace and Charity which are the very Life of Christianity gives just Cause to suspect the Lord doth not send them and this as certainly belongs to G. F his Party who assume to themselves the Rule and Government as it did to New-England for you are doing the same Work as they did I do not mean hanging c. but cry out as they did Disturb the Church preach Heretical Opinions deny Christs Gospel and Ministers and Christs Ordinances and what for but not Preaching up or not conforming to some New Laws of these New Spiritual Lords viz. G. F. c. Also in a Postscript to S. C's Babylonish Opposer c. J. P. saith that T.C. hath curtailed a Testimony of his Dear Fathers but if any deserve to be termed Curtailers or Perverters then it belongs to the Writer and Approvers of the Accuser c. who cite Part of the Title to the Third Part of the Christian Quaker but they leave out in the middle of the Sentence some of the Principle words viz. Who alone is Lord of the Conscience and some Other and W. R's next words be For the better illustration of our Meaning an Answer to a Part of a Book of R. B. is cited By which words it is apparent that in Justice no Conclusion ought to be made from that Title without consulting that Answer referred to but yet they do in the Accuser also a Sheet put out in the Name of T. L. Also J. P's Complaint page 5. say of W. R's The whole Drift of that Part is to tye up all to an Inward Government of Christ exclusive of any Outward Government c. Whereby it is evident they would perswade Friends that W. R. c. is against Order c. and yet they do cite in the Accuser by way of Contradiction to W.R. from that Answer in 23d pag of the Third Part that W. R. sayeth Not that I would be understood that it is not necessary to be in the Exercise of Outward Order with respect of Gospel Discipline and from page 83. of the Third Part My Soul should rejoyce to see that Day wherein we might all be so led by the Appearance of Christs Spirit in us that Oneness might thereby be witnessed among all the Families of Gods People Also 38. and 43. pages of the First Part and 47. of the Second and 33.64 and 65. of the Third All these be by themselves cited out of C. Q. which do plainly manifest W. R. is not against Order and Oneness nor Discipline as they falsly charge him but they False Accusers so proved by their own Citations and Curtailers as in the 5th page of the Accuser c. They cite a Place from page 21. of the First Part of the C. Q. W. R. says This Sensence THese Words in different Letters were left out in their Citation as Heirs of the Gospel of Life Salvation take your Possessons hath been of late Years frequently exprest by G. F. when speaking to Friends by way of Incouragement to continue Men and Womens Meetings distinct from the Publick Meeting for VVorship by which it is much doubted that some Ignorant People have concluded that the frequenting such Meetings is an Evidence that they are Heirs of Life and Salvation Where they leave out G.F. his Name and other material words c. and say W. R. reflects on he knows not who when he names G. F. and as they quote his words they seem a general Reflection on Meetings for Worship when W. R. says distinct from them and they have left out and added words in many Places to the manifest Perversion of the Sense and according to their own Measures are Curtailers and Perverters and have so far excelled T. Hicks and I. Ives that if any People pretending to Christs Church c. may be said to have attained to the perfection of that they themselves call Forgery Perverting and Curtailing they viz. G. F's Chief Men of War have as appears in their Accuser also their Hypocrisy Detected put out in the Name of that poor Aged Man T. L. of 81 Years and touse their own Expressions who would have thought they should have the Face to accuse others for that they are so grosly guilty of and have the confidence to say that T. C. hath the face to bring up the Names of Is P. and E. B. again with the same tendency to render their Sense different from their Brethrens present Practice is no less than a manifest Perversion I my self know that my Father hath delivered to the contrary and never saw nor heard any thing contradictory thereto come from him Wherefore I shall mention some more of their present Sense or Judgment also Is P. Testimonys and leave their Inconsistency to the Judgment of the Reader These under are their Present Judgment These following are Is P's E. B's Judgment formerly Is P. EXAM 10. Pag. 2. Epistle Brief Examination Speaking of the Church say Her Members are of one Mind in Church-Matters And P. 4. no fear of want of Vnity where all are left with the One Spirit of Truth they must be of one Mind they cannot be otherwise The true Tryal of Spirits is not by an Assent to Doctrines which a Hypocrite may assent to 11. A man may want some of those Doctrines Men call FUNDAMENTALS and yet be a Citizen of it i. e. Heaven E. B. notwithstanding difference in Judgment in Cases Substantial yet they were to walk together in Love and Unity And I desire Friends to consider these Sayings of Is P. and E. B. now Cited and many more and compare with what is also Cited against them and their Severe Persecution of I.S. I.W. I.A. and others for not Conforming to G. F's Laws but
for shewing Charity to some honest Men that differed from them in some things And I. S. and I. W. said They would not have People over driven And this Christian Charity which Is P's and E. B's antient Testimonies accord with and so ought all in Truth G. F's Party are so Apostatised from rendring them such Evil Facts that they make them Heads of Articles nay for differing about Manner or Form of Marriages shall condemn out of Unity which is out of the Church of Christ with them as by their Principle afore Cited must be all of one Mind cannot be otherwise but the Testimonies cited of I. P's and E. B.'s say contrary And therefore who cannot adore G. F. and his Laws as C. T. c. have done From the Oracle of Divine Breath and S. E. The great and good Ordinancer of Jesus Christ and if not of one Mind with them and will not give up to his Womens Meetings c. Then Rebels against the Lord and Cursed from God from all Eternity to all Eternity as some of G. F's Men of War have said because some will not bow to G. F's Will And he himself hath said those that be of I. S's Party be of the Devils Party then out of the Truth and not safe to be left to their Freedom or as G.F. says to the Barbadoes Church Those that have not Vnity with Mens and Womens Meetings are erred from their Measures but the Vniversal Spirit hath Vnity with the least Measure So that they that are not of one Mind with them have not the least Measure for if they had they should have Unity with them Which Doctrine is also confirmed in their Brief Examination pag. 2. and 3. If thou are such an one that can do nothing against the Truth but for the Truth then mayest thou safely be left to thy Freedom in the things of God which words do imply that it is not for others to expect it or have right to it as confirmed a littel farther where having spoke of some good things then say That if thou plead thy Freedom against such things c. thy Freedom is nought and out of Truth Now with those and many more such good Names and Rich Attire do they dress G. F's Laws with and who cannot as C. T. and S. E. adore him and them as they have then Your Freedom's nought and out of Truth and by the Consequence of the above cited Doctrine It is not fit for you to be left to your Freedom in the things of God unless you be arrived to that heigth of Hypocritical and Pharisaical Righteousness as C.T. c. who in his Epistle of Caution is of the same mind with Exam. He would have it Believed they cannot appoint any thing against but for the Truth whereby it is manifest that their Charity for Freedom in the Things of God i. e. Liberty of Conscience extends to such as can own G. F. for the best of Gods Servants and his Laws from the Oracle of Divine Breath but those who cannot so believe their Freedom is nought and they out of Truth although never so Conscientious to God otherwise But Ad● to Pr●t p. 104 saith Faith in that day was an intire Resignation and Dependence on God and not a Subscription to Verbal Propositions and Articles although never so true P. 105 Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy Heart and thy Neighbour as thy self is the perfection Christian Religion and certain Token of a Disciple These Qualifications may be and yet not of one Mind in some Forms neither are all the Members of Christs Church arrived to that State or not to that height of Presumption as G. T. c. but on the contrary may through unwatchfulness and weakness do some things displeasing to God therefore not for but against the Truth yet ought to be left to their Freedom in the Things of God And that Position That them which be left with the one Spirit of Truth must be of one Mind cannot be otherwise I take to be false For Peter and Paul differed and were not of one Mind in some things yet I hope you will not deny them to be Members of Christs Church and to be left to their Freedom c. seeing you have so much Christian Charity for Moral Men to admit they may be Christians It is said p. 7. of Brief Exam. The difference between Peter and Paul testifies the weakness of Peter and Justifies Pauls Reproof of his too great Complyance with the Jews Which makes against Liberty of various Practices in the ' Church But I take him to mistake for Peter not only complyed to the Jews himself but he Would constrain the Gentils to do like the Jews Gal 2. v. 14. Therefore Paul withstood him and it was not the believing or practising one or'tother for he said Circumcision or Uncircumcision avail not also he caused Timothy to be Circumcised but it was the Preaching of Forms or Ceremonies of necessity to Salvation that he terms Compelling Act. 15. Certain Men taught the Gentiles that except they were Circumcised and kept the Law of Moses they could not be Saved This Paul withstood Also it is said Br. Exam. page 7. That Passage about Eating hath nothing in it for which it is alledged for it related not to Church Order or Communion But I think it did for in the Qu. before it is said The Persons differing were Peter and Paul and Peter eat with the Gentils as Gal. 2.12 also 1. Cor. 8.10 If any see thee which hast Knowledge sit at Table in the Idols Temple shall not the Conscience of him that is weak be imboldned to eat those things sacrificed to Idols Also Rom. 14. The Apostle speaks of observing Days to the Lord as well as eating and about offending one another which could not so properly be in what any eats in private as his Nourishment but related to some Differences about Meats which some would have oblieged the Believing Gentiles to observe the Jews Ceremonies therein on account of Salvation as in Act. 15. which Paul was against and they had Disputes about Rom. 14. Him that is weak receive not to doubtful Disputations and in the next words the Apostle saith One believeth he may eat all things another that is weakeateth Herbs and in Vers 5. Let Every Man be fully perswaded in his own Mind and Vers 12. Every one shall give account of himself to God let us not therefore judge one another These Scriptures and Citations clearly manifest that Christians ought to be left to their Freedom i. e. Liberty of Conscience although not so strong or at least not so confident as C. T. c. But if it be as said in page 7. Br. Exam. It related only to what they would Eat as private Persons in respect to Appetite although they had therein Power yet the Apostle advises to the consideration of others as Rom. 14.14 I know and am perswaded that there is nothing unclean of it self Yet in 1 Cor. 10.13 If Meat offend my Brother I will eat no Flesh while the World standeth Now if Paul would thus deny himself in condescension to a weak Brother surely he was far from compelling him to be of his Mind or saying They cannot be otherwise Therefore if that Instance about Meats related only to private Freedoms that makes much more against a necessity of all being of one Mind but rather according to Is Ps c. Testimonies for leaving them to their Freedom walking in Love and Unity in Diversity of Practices Wherefore that astonishing Affirmation of I. P. That he never saw nor heard any thing contradictory to the present Sense and Practice of Friends i. e. G. F. and his Party from his Father seemed to me so remote from Truth that I wonder to use their own words they have the Face to assert it I recommend you all to the word of Gods Grace nigh in your Hearts which is able to give you an Inheritance among the Sanctified Ones which neither G. F. c. nor conforming to his Orders can do Tho. Crisp
the Grace of God convince the Conscience is now termed a loose Plea and the Root of Ranterism with some of G. F's chief Men of War for they must Establish the Church in the Holy Order of the Gospel as they call it And this their hasty imposing G. F's Laws is the great cause of difference For W. R. c. do not oppose any Outward Oneness that Friends are by the Lords Hand brought into but incourages it And Is P's words allowed their plain and true meaning are not pinshing to W. R. for Is P. saith And the Vnity being thus kept c. which relates to something afore mentioned where he sayth He that hath a Tast of the one Heart and one Way knoweth that no variety of Practices which is of God can make a Breach in the true Vnity c. And every one keeping here there is one Heart kept in the midst of all variety and diversity of Practises Whereby it is clear that the Unity he believed admitted of diversity of Practises Which is the same with W. R. c. and is that J. P. and his Adherents are so against viz. Bearing with and not judging one another as Isaac Pennington says truly is likelier meanes to bring into One Outwardly than compelling And J. P. doth falsly and perversly say in his 5th pag W.R. durst not trust his Reader with those words For if it be so that all arc to be of one Mind or Practice Outwardly yet that doth not prove that all must come to Conformity to G. F. ' s Laws But it may as well be inferred from those words that G. F. c. will come into one with J. P's Father according to his many Testimonies viz. Not to strive to force into one Mind but walk sweetly together in Love although in diversity of Practices which is also according to Scripture and the antient Testimony and Christs Rule Do as you would be done by therefore more properly to be expected and pleaded for from this very pinching Sentence as J. P. calls it than to plead for Impositions And for that J. P. would reflect on W. R. in pag. 7.8 for using the words We and Our only as a flourish it is well known that abler and honester than J. P. have and will own themselves concern'd However W. R. needs no help against such as J. P. but his own work of Falshood is sufficient correction to himself who notwithstanding he hath not proved any wrong done by W. R. but that he hath performed what he said and that J. P. says is fair Dealing yet after all his other foul Language doth in the 9th pag. no less than term W. R a Forger but it appears that the cause of all their rage against him is because he hath endeavoured to prove G. F. but a fallable man unto whom Christopher Taylor and Solomon Eccles c. have given unsitting Titles and Names And forasmuch as J. P. hath not made good his charge of wrong done by W. R. to his Father in his Citations nor disproved any words that W. R. or T. C. cited as his Fathers but that they are really so nor any thing omitted by W. R. that was in the Part he cited Therefore it can be no Injury to Isaac Penington or the Reader that T. C. transcribed that Part of Isaac Peningtons Testimony from W. R's Book which was occasioned as afore And for that J. P. in pag. 8. reflects on T. C. that he did not Berean-like search his Fathers Writings Those Testimonies by T. C. are so agreable to the Truth and Scriptures that if J. P. and a hundred more of G. F's Men of War do deny or oppose them yet T. C. would not be ashamed to own them And they were not published as a Charge or Defamation to Is P. but will stand on Record to his Praise And if any Injury be to Is P. it is by him and his Adherents that would insinuate that his Father intended any other way than his words are and would make him contradict himself and Truth also And for that J. P. saith T. C. added wide Inferences of his own as of a Liberty in paying Tithes as a civil Right Indeed he sayeth true in that he saith wide Inferences for that Passage he is so offended at is about seven pages wide from his Fathers and two other Friends Testimonies between but if J. P. think that I should ask him c. licence to mention his Fathers Name or Writings he is mistaken Also J. P. saith far from his Fathers Sense and Practice I did not say it was his Fathers Sense or Practice but his Father doth say pag 64. Christ is sole Lord and Judge of the Conscience Rom. 14.4 and not either Minister or Church that is many times required to be left upon a further degree of Knowledge given which was not required to be left before c. This proves what T. C. affirms That we ought not to judge one another about Matters that relate to Conscience As for that cited as E. B's Vision It hath been so received and delivered from and to many Eminent Friends T.C. doth not pretend that he saw him write it but if any mistake were in the assigned Author the truth is no less truth And whereas J. P. faith T. C's Title is fallacious had any thing been set in the Title which was not in the Book then he might have so said nor do I understand it is deceit not to express all on the Title that is in the Book But to me there appears greater deceit in the Conclusion of his where he faith Let this be dispersed only where W. R's abusive Book hath gone which Caution pretends privacy Yet this Book was sold to Strangers that had no appearance like Quakers and lay publick on the Booksellers Boards to the view of any and sold to them that never saw W. R's Book And for that ' J. P. in pag. 8. about Tithes sayth It is a denying Christ come in the Flesh it needs his further Explanation especially since we find that many of the Believing Jews were found in the Practice of Circumcision equally abrogated with Tithes and not Judged for such their Practice whil'st through Faith they were not led from under it T. C. doth not plead for Tithes but believes them to be an oppression But that every one that pays them denyes Christ being come in the Flesh I think is too rash when the payment thereof is grounded on a Submission to the Established Laws and not on a Religious Score in pursuance of the Law under the First Covenant abrogated by Christ For the Tribute demanded of Christ was contrary to their Law yet he paid it Also to be smitten or compelled to go a Mile But yet Christ commanded to bear it and do them and for all J. P. c. are so angry I will adventure to add without their licence that I believe they that pay them only out of Christian Submission to
the Magistrate do better than those that deny them only because G. F. c. do so order or will Judge them therefore And for the using of plain Language or any Practice Friends use or refuse as in Conscience to God T. C. condemns not only Imitation And for that J. P. saith is a Lye if he mean saying you to a single Person this I think is too uncharitable a rude word in it self and so accounted by J.P. as in his 14th p. 1. 10. he says W. R. foul-mouthedly gives G. F. the Lye but that was to G. F. I cannot understand that saying You to a single Person is a Lye unless it be spoke to deceive for I take a Lye to be a wilful Vntruth for every Vntruth is not a Lye because one may speak untrue and yet not know but believes it is true also Speech is only to signifie the Intents and if the Party spoken to plainly know the meaning of the Speaker the end is answered and that distinction rather proper for Schooles than Christians And this confident black-mouthed young man hath by those few words marked as Lyers and so for the Lake hundreds of better Christians than himself But I know that with the Lord is more Mercy also with the Christian-Quaker more Charity And I am satisfied J. P. is not the Young Man Ezekiel saw That was to mark those that mourn for all the Abominations that be done in Jerusalem For I believe that among those he hath marked as Lyers there be many such I am sorry his anger against T.C. should so transport him to fall foul of so many Generations past as also many now no ways concerned nor privy to T. C's Provocation of him that he is so offended at For T. C. condemns none that are Conscientious to God although in different Practice neither doth he question but they were and are acceptable But G.F. c. making Laws and Orders how People should speak and act and yet pretend to Believe and Preach the Sufficiency of the New-Covenant and dare not trust them therewith this I take to be a more denial of Christ being come in the Flesh than a peaceable Submission to the Law when nothing from God in the Heart is otherwise required And I do believe that G. F. is not as Moses to receive Orders from but HIM to whom all Judgment is committed And who ever fixes Christ his Offices or Titles on G. F. c. such are Denyers of Christ being come in the Flesh And I am not against Gospel-Order but for it as W. R. in the Third Part and several other places in the Christian-Quaker hath asserted And for that J. P. is offended with T. C. in pag. 9. because he said That may be required of one which may not be required of another T. C. did not say It is so but may be and if that be possible as I am sure it is then what I affirmed is truth and I think the Parable of the Talents c. makes that good and as Is Pennington saith Though the Doings or Thoughts or Words be Divers yet if they proceed from the same Principle and Nature there is a true Vnity felt therein where the Life alone is Judge A small grain of Charity much less than he hath of Enmity would have shewed him how to reconcile such Assertions to Truth but to satisfie the honest hearted and not to gratifie the Chief Priests and Pharisees T.C. doth say That he believes many Christians do out of Conscience scruple Paying of Tithes as believing it sinful and that it is required of such that they be faithful thereto but he also believes that some honest People have not the same scruple or doubt therefore it is not so required of them and in this case it may properly be said That is required of one which may not be of another For that J. P. queries of W. R. whether he will stand by T.C. thereby taking on him to enquire for help for T. C. he need not for T. C. never complained to him for neither would he have any of his help for he likes not his Practice so well and T. C. fears not but he shall have sufficient assistance as he is on Truths part and otherways he doth not desire any but hopes never shall shelter under J. P's Refuge for I am sure that must be swept away And if not to pay Tithes be a fundamental or substantial Doctrine of Christian Religion which is the highest it can be hear what Isaac Pennington in page 11. of Examination speaking of the Kingdom of God faith Another may want divers Doctrines concerning it perhaps some of those which men call FUNDAMENTAL and yet be a Citizen of it and in the Power c. Also see Edward Burrough's Testimony pag. 20. Notwithstanding Difference in Judgment in Cases Substantial yet they were to be in Love and Vnity Whereby it appears from both their Writings that they allowed difference in Practice and Judgment in things esteemed SUBSTANTIALS and G. F's Laws cannot be more And this was the Unity Isaac Pennington saith pag. 88. Being thus kept all will come into One Outwardly I hope this rash Young Man will not term his Father and E. B. as he hath T. C. One that shuns the Cross and seeks Ease in the Flesh and say They oppose Truth to Truth and maketh the Spirit inconsistent with it self And seeing Is P's words are such undeniable Truths as cited by T. C which J. P. cannot deny only saith it is but in part his Fathers Sense T. C. never said it was all but in Preface referred to his Book I hope J.P. will not make one Part contradict the other for that would render himself guilty of what he falsly charges on W. R. and T. C. that they have abused and perverted his Fathers Writings and thereby all those black Characters that J. P. hath bestowed on W. R. and T. C. justly belong to himself And for that he hath been so extravagant beyond his pretended Principle to bestow such a Livery on T.C. and so abundantly belace it I believe he never knew T. C. before the occasion of these Testimonies therefore seeing his knowledge was so little neither hath he proved any great Crimes against him I appeal to any Christian Quaker whether it be not a very unchristian and bold adventure of this black monthed Young Man to say T.C. dayly doth despite to the Spirit of Grace and that he opens a Gap to Libertinism I deny all fleshly Liberty and Ease but the high Hedg or Wall viz. G. F's Orders c. must be destroyed and that City layed wast And every one know his dependence upon the Foundation Christ Jesus the Light And what you have hewed and hammered and made such a noise with your Tools they are not therefore the fitter for the Lords House for His Day is come and coming on all your Fenced Cities and High Towers and those who like the poor Rekabites cannot