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A16163 A friendlie communcication or dialogue betweene Paule and Damas wherein is disputed how we are to vse the pleasures of this life. By Samuel Byrd, Master of Art, and fellow not long since of Benet Colledge. Bird, Samuel, d. 1604. 1580 (1580) STC 3086; ESTC S102321 65,647 186

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wine Pro. 23 31. when it is red and when it sheweth his colour in the cup or goeth downe pleasantlie we must not make a God of our bellie for we read that the Iewes that had such a greedie desire to their meate died with Quailes in their mouthes For though a man haue abundaunce yet his life standeth not in his riches Man liueth not by bread but by the prouidence of God It was said to the rich man that reioiced so much in his riches and said to his soule Soule thou hast Luke 12. 17 much goods laid vp for manie yeres liue at ease eate drinke and take thy pastime O foole this night will I fetch awaie thy soule from thée then whose shal those things be which thou hast prouided The Lord doth sometimes of purpose lessen those meanes wherby he wil saue vs least we shuld staie our selues too much vpon them for this cause the Lord doth strike the Iudg 7 2. earth with barrennesse least our minde should bée too much busied in thinking what great crops we haue had for this cause by sicknes he dot● often take frō vs the vigor of our tast doth mingle all our pleasures with griefe as it were with an vnsauerie tongue as the booke of the preacher teacheth vs. He sometimes taketh from vs our wise counsellers our valiant politicke capitanes He sometimes sēdeth earthquakes He beateth down our strong holdes castels all our munition of war to the end we might see what a vaine thing it is to trust in any earthlie defense An horse saith the Prophet is but a vaine thing to saue a mans life It is but a vaine thing to trust in Princes for except the Lord kéepe the citie the kéeper watcheth in vaine Our trust therefore must be in the name of God that made both heauē Psal 127. earth those that trust in him shal be as mount Sion which cānot be remoued but remaineth for euer Héere alone doth the difference consist betweene the child of God a naturall man the child of God hath his hart knit vnto him that made all things but the natural man is altogether linked to the creature they make it the place where all their affections haue their abode it is their Summū bonum it is their happines it is their onlie ioie The philosophers wer verie diligent markers of the goodlie properties that wer in the creatures of God they spake verie plentifullie of the vertue of hearbs mettals of that nature of euerie liuing thing They knewe by the creatures that there was a God yet did they neuer worship him as God neither were they thankfull but became vain in their imaginatiōs their foolish hart was ful of darknes Euē Tullie their chiefe Orator in his Rom. 1. 21. booke De natura deorū when he had discoursed at large of the great wisdom bountifulnes that was to by séene in the workmanship of the creatures yet as if he had bene halfe a god himself or onlie an idle looker on had no benefit by thē he vseth not one word of thanksgiuing He was a very eloquēt man had tounge at will yet whē he shuld come to sound foorth the praise of God he was altogether speachles but the Prophet Dauid intreting of the same matter breaketh out into thankfull speaches O Lord saith he how manifold are thy workes In wisedome hast thou made them all the earth is full of thy riches And againe I will sing vnto the Lord all my life I will praise my God while I liue And againe O my soule praise thou the Lord Praise ye the Lord. Likewise Psal 104. in the 8. Psalme O Lord our Lord how excellent is thy name in all the world His whole Psalmes are full of such meditations for this thankefulnesse that I speake of was alwaies the foote of his song O that the Papists would but aduisedlie consider this thankfulnesse of the Prophet Dauid our controuersie then about Organes chaunting of songs would soone be at an ende They can readilie alleadge all the kinde of instruments that Dauid vsed but they will neuer remember withall that he praised the Lord in them They maie vnderstand if they will by the 14. of the first to the Corinths that there was made a distinction in the soundes and that the people knew what was piped and what was harped Psa 106. 4● But they think it maketh no matter though English men sing a song in the Latine tongue that they vnderstand not The note is the thing that they take pleasure in so that as we sée they sing not to the Lord but to their owne eares And that makes them speake so baselie of our songs We all with one voice in a plaine and distinct note sing lustelie vnto the Lord with a good courage And that they like not of their hearts are set vpon the melodie of the descant they worship him that made the note they doe not sing to the Lord. Where do they finde that the songs of Dauid vsed in the seruice of God were of fiue or six parts Where doe they finde that they quauered and deuided the note so that the people could not vnderstand what was sung In the 25. of the first booke of the Chronicles the order of musick that the Iewes vsed in the seruice of God is set down but there is no mention made of ●uch babbling musicke The end wherefore their songs were sung is directlie against this chaunting 1. Chro. 16. the. 4. 7. verse The Lord will be worshipped in spirit in truth And if we will sing Dauids Psalmes we must bring Dauids spirit or els the Lord cares not for our melodie Our delight must not rest in anie thing but in the Lord he is the Lord our God we must haue none other Gods but him The Lord himselfe hath commaunded vs to honour those that he hath set ouer vs the Apostle teacheth vs that it is the first commandement with a promise to obay our parents And yet he that loueth father or mother better then Christ is not worthie of him He that taketh more plesure in his parents then in Christ is reiected of him Likewise we must haue in estimation the ministers of the word for their works sake yet we 1. Cor. 3. 21. must not absolutelie rest our selues vpon thē we must not reioice in mē but we must reioice in God that worketh by men Now if the Lord will not haue vs depend too much vpon men that sowe into our hearts that immortall and Psa 014 incorruptible séed of eternal life how greatlie shal we think wil it displease the Lord to delight so much in that dunghil 1. Cor. ● things of this world which perish with the vse We maie reioice as I said before in vsing these corruptible creatures of God for wine maketh glad the heart of man as the Prophet saith but yet we must reioice
as if we reioiced not For if it be too vehement the Lord cannot awaie withall Woe be vnto you saith Christ that Lu. 6. 2. ● are rich for you haue receiued your consolation woe be vnto you that are full for you shall hunger woe be to you that now laugh for you shall waile and wéepe They lie vpon beds of Iuorie saith the prophet Amos stretch themselues vpon their beds eat the Lambes of the flocke the Calues out of the stall they sing to the sound of the violl They inuent to themselues instruments of Musicke like Dauid Dauid was neuer so busie in deuising Instrumentes to serue Gods glorie as they were in deuising of them to serue their wanton lusts It is lawfull no doubt to laugh It King 18. is lawfull to eate a fat Lambe or a fat Calfe It is lawfull to delight our selues with musicke for the earth is the Lords as the Apostle saith Yet vnto that people that bathed themselues in these pleasures that wallowed laid themselues downe in them neuer remembring the Lord that gaue them these terrible woes of the Prophet are thundered against The reason why the rich glutton béeing in torments ●uke 16 ●uke 8. could receiue no comfort was because of the pleasures that he enioied in this world Remember saith Abraham that thou in thy life time receiuedst thy pleasure likewise Lazarus paines now therefore is hée comforted and thou art tormented And we are to consider that one kinde of men that heare the word vnprofitablie and remaine still in their cursed estate are those into whose hearts voluptuous liuing enters in makes the séede vnfruitefull And therefore Christ our Sauiour setting downe vnto vs the suddainnesse of his comming willeth vs in anie case to take héede of surfetting and dronkennesse I would to God we would wiselie consider of this admonition we shuld not then surfet as we doe we should not then haue so manie and so sundry kindes of dishes as we haue Wée vse to saie doe not men knowe when they haue eate inough and maie not a man eate of sundrie dishes without surfetting They alwaies marke what maie be done but they neuer consider what is like to be done and what is commonlie done They think that because no man will be knowne of it when hée hath eaten too much that therefore men seldome or neuer ouer eate themselues But our sauiour Christ would haue vs to suspect our selues He giueth vs a watch word Take héede saith hée If there were no daunger in the matter this warning had bene in vaine How is it possible but that at our feasting as we vse the matter we should offend against this commaundement of Christ First we must haue brawne and muscadine next to that we must haue stewde meate the rest of our meat must not be séene all this while when men haue wel dined with these two seruices then must we haue rost meate and baked meate last of all we must haue a newe dinner with sundrie kinde of fruits I graunt at such méetings we maie haue a more liberal diet then we wer accustomed neither are sundrie kindes of meates to be misliked of if they come roundlie in together so that euerie man maie eate where he thinketh good But if our sundrie dishes come at such sundrie times with such a pause betwéene them it is a thousand to one that we shall breake this commaundement It is not for naught that the godlie man Iob was afraid that his sonnes had offended at their banketting This rioting setteth vs altogether vpon the hoigh it stealeth from our hearts the consideration of our owne vilenesse and so long as we are thus aloft we can haue no thankfull remembraunce of him that gaue these things vnto vs for thankes giuing if it be in truth is done with the beating downe of the heart and with abasing of our selues And therfore the wise man saith It is better to goe to the house of mourning then to the house of feasting this reason that I speake of is added because saith he this is the ende of all men and the liuing shall laie it to his heart And againe Anger is better then laughter for by a sad looke the heart is made better The hart of the wise Preac 7. 4. is in the house of mourning but the heart of fooles is in the house of mirth Demas The proofes that you haue brought are plaine proofes I cannot saie against it And yet I haue a probable reason which maie séeme to make somewhat against that which you haue saide my reason is this I thinke you nor no man els of anie iudgement will denie that he that teacheth that it is not lawfull for anie man at anie time to eate anie kinde of meate so that in the forbidding thereof respect be not had to the common wealth setteth downe the doctrine of diuels although he neither forbid all kinde of meate nor at all times nor to all men How then can you saie that it is not lawfull when one hath comforted himselfe sufficientlie with some kinde of meat to haue the vse of new delicates without béeing in the like fault Paule The Papists I graunt you in forbidding flesh and white meat in Lent and in forbidding Priests as they call them to marrie taught the doctrine of diuels For they forbadde meates they forbadde marriage And although they forbadde not meate at all times nor marriage to all persons yet they forbadde both and as Maister Iewel telleth them Magis minus non mutant speciem For as he that killeth a fewe men is a murtherer so he that forbiddeth meate at some time of the yeare forbideth meate But I doe not forbid anie meate to anie man at anie time For when I see a man that hath eaten inough and yet is readie to eate more if I forbid him and tell him it is gluttonie to do so doe I by so saieng forbid anie kinde of meat Who séeth not that I forbid the stuffing of his bodie with gorge vpon gorge and not anie kinde of meat for if his stomake were emptie the meate were lawfull inough euen at that time for that person Demas Yet I doe not sée how you can call it vnlawfull when a man excéedeth in eating For where is then that difference betwéene lawfull and 1. Co. 10. 29 expedient that the Apostle speaketh of Paule The Apostles meaning was not to tell vs that abusing of anie indifferent thing was onelie not expedient but not vnlawfull His purpose was not to make anie such nice distinction but onelie this that all indifferent things though in themselues they were lawfull yet the circumstaunces might make them vnlawfull The Apostle bestoweth thrée or foure whole Chapters in teaching the Romanes and the Corinthes how to vse indifferent things He telleth Cor. 8. 12. the Corinthes that by vsing their libertie too much they did sinne against Christ so that as we sée they saie no thing which