Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	scripture_n	spirit_n	try_v	2,382	5	8.8588	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91887	Some few considerations propounded, as so many scruples by Mr. Henry Robinson in a letter to Mr. Iohn Dury upon his epistolary discourse: with Mr. Duryes answer thereunto. VVherein is observable with what overtures of spirit they endeavour to edifie each other, not withstanding their differing judgements and opinions about the Independent and Presbyterian way. Published by a well-willer to peace and truth, in expectation that it may no little conduce, either to the reconciling of such controversies, or to the debating them with lesse noise and bitternesse. Whereunto is annexed another epistolary discourse, written by Mr. John Dury, to a worthy knight, concerning the principles of meditation: from which rules may be gathered to direct men to order their thoughts, so as to finde a resolution of all their doubts.	Robinson, Henry, 1605?-1664?; Dury, John, 1596-1680.; Well-Willer to Peace and Truth.	1646 (1646)	Wing R1679; Thomason E345_1; ESTC R200979	39,103	49

account neither to God nor man but they are the Presbyterians which may be said both properly and actually to strive and that with carnall civill weapons whilest by their doctrine instigation or approbation their poor brethren which cannot with a good conscience comply with them are persecuted by discountenancing turning out of their Ministery and livelihoods imprisoning and banishing through grief and manifold inconveniences even unto death Pag. 24. You say if spirituall relation cannot be setled by the wisdome and loving affections of spirituall office-bearers within the Church amongst themselves then it is just that they should forfeit their spirituall right and liberty c. If this be so I would gladly see it proved from evidence of Scripture or good reason for I conccive that as Christ did only purchase for us our Christian rights and liberties so no State or Government no body but himself may take upon him to abridge us of them Secondly that no civill misdemeanors can be just cause to abridge us of our Christian liberty Thirdly that divisions in opinions about a Church-way do not necessarily conclude divisions in a State And lastly such as do actually disturb the civill State the publike peace both ought and may be punished even unto death without abridging such offenders much lesse the civilly innocent in their spirituall rights and liberties The utmost extent and height of Christians differing in opinion which I ever heard of was this First that they might have leave to search the Scriptures Secondly to try the spirits examine the doctrines which were taught them and so rejecting error hold fast the truth worshpping God in such a manner as he requires with confirming and edifying one another in all piety and godlinesse for discharging of a good conscience both towards God and man If it be objected that men may not worship God after a false manner under pretence of a true one nor publish errors in stead of truth I answer that nothing can be saving truth nor any kind of worshipping God prove acceptable from any man which is not held to be such in his own conscience and understanding I submit my self to heare reade or be informed in whatsoever shall be required of me and it may on strong presumptions be conceived that the sundry disadvantages I lie under in dissenting with the many benefits I might receive by conforming do make me no little willing and desirous that my very judgement and conscience could be brought about to approve and agree in what the State establisheth so it might be with a good conscience towards God and man but if after all this I shall professe in presence of the Lord that I do not finde evidence by all that was alledged for convincing of my conscience I desire to see cleer grounds from Scripture on which any politick ends of State may any wayes proceed to offer violence or any degree of compulsive means to work upon my conscience and understanding on which such spirituall as have hitherto been used were not able to prevail since such only we finde warrantable and sanctified in Scripture to this effect Pag. 25. They should be so tolerated as may be no prejudice to that Church whereof the State it self is professedly a nursing mother I cannot apprehend how the similitude can hold between a private Christian and a publike State in many respects I will urge only in one viz. a publike State may at sometime both have and suffer thwarting crosse or contrary opinions to be believed and yet subsist though if it were granted not so peacebly not so secutely as is objected But a private Christian cannot possibly at one and the same time believe two diametrically opposite opinions to be true in the self same respect I wish you would be pleased to state the course and orderly conference you speak of p. 26. which doubtlesse all Independents will with you approve of I do not find it expressed in Scripture that Christian Magistrates have any thing to do in setting up an outward visible worship under the Gospell or that they can any wayes be furthering of it except by giving good example unto others as being members of the Church or in protecting the Saints whilest they apply themselves to worship God according to the integrity of their own consciences in spirit and in truth for since the Magistrates weapons are coercive teriall camall if they take upon them the vindication of spirituall neglect or defect each State setting up its own a different worship men must from time to time take that to be the truest and subject their consciences to that which hath the sharpest sword to fight for it still changing Religion according to the event of warre with the sundry alterations of States and Kingdomes And though I am not well satisfied with the expression you use concerning the conscience of a State I suppose you will sufficiently apprehend me if I querie whether the conscience of every State can be accountable and at the day of judgement excuse all such as have been cast away through false worships which they set up in relation to their own consciences respectively compelling the people to submit thereto If not I querie again if it be not are argument of greatest indiscretion for reasonable men and women to resigne up their own understandings unto such as cannot bear them harmlesse for so doing and of greatest presumption and tyrannie in those who assume unto themselves a spirituall dominion over others whom they can neither give a spirituall assurance to at present nor provide for them if need be a spirituall deliverance hereafter Pag. 28. You say the Civill Magistrate may not meddle with what is spirituall nor the Spirituall office bearer with what is Civill which I grant and yet p. 29. you say the Civill Magistrate must have the cognizance of the just and orderly behaviour of those which doe administer Spirituall ordinances wherein I beseech you consider whether this be not a direct way of setting the Civill and Spirituall office bearers at odds amongst themselves as put the case the Civill Magistrate tells the Spirituall that he hath not well orderly administred the Ordinances admonishes him to reforme and upon resusall proceeds to punish him on the contrary the Spirituall Magistrate justifies himselfe flyes to his Spirituall weapons in his owne defence and if they prevail not in likelihood endeavours to stir up the people against the Civill Magistrate and how you can avoid this great disturbance upon these grounds I cannot possibly imagine but much desire to be informed thereof if your leasure may permit and that upon further thoughts you continue of the same opinion You make it likewise within the sphere of the Civill Magistrate to keep people from choosing Teachers according to their owne humours their owne understandings and Teachers from drawing people after them how is this I beseech you consistent with the liberty nay the charge which is imposed upon Christians for trying of

the spirits and holding fast that which is good if they may not heare such as they apprehend to be sent from Christ and imbrace such doctrines as they take to be saving truths and necessary to their salvation according to that light of reason and understanding in the Scriptures which God hath given them for this very purpose Pag. 36. If those you call common principles whilst you say the Apologists insisting on generalities cannot be brought to triall were demonstrative as you alleadge the Scriptures may bee demonstratively analized P. 4. I should thinke it the worke of some Angell to have it once effected and as well the Apologists as all others who now differ in opinion would quickly grow together into an unity of faith But till then I shall expect that according to the Scriptures there will be heresies and in the mean time conceive that nothing except this demonstrative analizing sacred truth will sooner vanquish them then the suffering them to bee with all possible freedome examined and debated which must necessarily infer the most acknowledged truths themselves to be subject to the same proceeding in that what one man Church or Nation takes to be truth another perhaps accounts no lesse then heresie And if Paul told the Galathians that if a good Angell an Angell from heaven should preach any other Gospell to them then what the Apostles had done before he should be accursed I conceive we may much more try the spirits of mortall men of like passions and infirmities with our selves consequently holding fast what wee finde sound and rejecting what appeares to bee erronious by the touchstone of holy Writ according to our owne reason understanding and faith since we neither may or can judge truly of them no more then see with the eyes of other men by the reason understanding and faith of others neither can I apprehend a third or any meane betwixt these two conditions To Pag. 30. I consesse a dissolved government may often times prove dangerous and fatail to any State both Civill and Ecclesiasticall and yet not so dangerous not fatall as a dominiering over rigid tyrannicall government especially in the spirituall state and both of them are therefore to be regulated according to their bounds and rules If Church discipline and censures will not prevaile on Church members I finde no warrant to flye to Civill but conceive it highly condemned even by that place of Paul where he blames the Corinthians for going to law with one another and that before unbeleevers besides all Civill states account themselves in a manner perfect for their civill condition and constitution As first they are compleat in Lawes they have as many as they will themselves they pretend to understand them fully even to the least jot and every man is bound to know them exactly and keep them in the letter But for spirituall matters we know but in part and therefore ought to reach forth to what is wanting not refusing to lend an eare unto it though tendered by a stammering illiterate tongue of some otherwise despised soule As all truth for the most part even from the beginning hath been discountenanced and rejected upon the first discovery and so much the rather in that the Primitive Christians however weak and ignorant in faith and knowledge the Apostles found them yet had they such amongst them in both respects as far exceeded all others ever since neither have we such infallible teachers like theirs to confirm unto us what we have for truth or adde unto us what is wanting To pag. 31. I must needs confesse the opinion of a greater light is no little deceitfull but doth not God require that we should walk according to such appearing light whether true or false I must be guided by it as it appears unto my selfe and how can God be angry with me for serving him to my power or how can man condemne me for differing from him when I have used all such rationall common principles which he could prescribe to bring me to be of this opinion without prevailing upon my conscience You say well with the Apostle that if any man thinketh he knoweth any thing he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know 1 Cor. 8. 2. and yet a man must be ruled by that which he thus but thinks to know so much lesse ground hath any man to impose what he knowes not for even his knowledge neither is no better upon another who knowing nothing yet knowes as much as himself Nay a Synod Councel or State have so little preemimence in this respect as that we must not look upon them with respect of persons unlesse we will justifie the Church of Rome in their implicit faith Pag. 32. You approve the casting off subjection and absolute obedience unto Episcopacy but would not have dissolved the brotherly corresponcie in a Presbyterie and certainly it should not be but it must then continue brotherly we must run hand in hand like brothers so long as we can keep a good conscience both towards God and man and if afterwards upon just grounds in our opinions for some respects we are forced to separate from them we shall be yet desirous to rest among them that if possibly they may be won by a godly conversation but if like a curst father or imperious Master they endeavour with rods and staves to drive us from our Father and Master which is in heaven or from our native countrey friends and livelihoods they do not only cease to be brotherly but cast away all hopes or possibility of reclaiming us if we were in an error Pap. 34. You make duties of practice no lesse fundamentall in the profession of Christianity then the knowledge of necessary truths according unto which principle I suppose the Apologists ought to be permitted both to practise such duties as they apprehend requisite and not to joyn with such as they esteem superfluous erroneous since both may be no lesse of faith then for one that eateth and another that eateth not whilest both give thanks to God as Paul sayes of them Rom. 14. 6. To pag. 37. As they will not refuse subjection to their own Pastor that hath the charge of their souls so much lesse when what he requires of them be confirmed by the approbation of a Presbyterie other Churches or Brethren but this must be in such things as they may yeeld unto with a good conscience and in case they finde reason for dissenting they are liable only to be censured by their own Church which hath power over them not by any others who have no jurisdiction much lesse authoritative o● compulsative Synods and Assemblies may well be convocated and take counsel debate and seek to vanquish such difficulties as arise without a Majesteriall jurisdiction which neither our Saviour or his Apostles did ever make use of or give command to others to practise it in after ages Christs kingdome was not of this world his body is mysticall and such