THE PAPISTS STRENGTH Principles and Doctrines which they are sworn to Preach from the Councel of TRENT by the Popes Authority and after confirmed by the last General Assembly at ROVEN 1571. All which they have sworn to perform Answered and confuted Furthermore their Principles and Doctrines Answered and Confuted as they were laid down in two or three severall Papers by R. W. Papist lately sent from HOLLAND Also a challenge to the Pope and all his Adherents to choose out of all his Dominions some Cardinals Fryers or Jesuits to try their Bread and Wine after Consecration by watching on their side and on our side to prove that if afterward they have consecrated it whether the Bread and Wine doth not loose its taste and savour and so not the Body and Blood of CHRIST Also a paper to all them that fast and afflict themselves who are in the will-worship and voluntary humility Also some Quaeries to all the Papists upon Earth to be answered in writing and sent to them which all Sects upon the Earth call QUAKERS By GEORGE FOX LONDON Printed for Thomas Simmons at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate 1658. The Papists Principles as followeth whose name subscribed thereunto is R. W. Priest HE saith He cannot but admire to see what a power Satan hath over the sons of Adam and especially â—ver Schismaticks and Apostates from the union of the Roman Catholique Church Answ. Theâ— that be in the true Light Chrâ—â—â— Jesus that fathoms the world 〈◊〉 not admire to see the great power of Satan over the sons of Adam in the fall and over all the Schismaticks and Apostates for Schismaticks and Apostates and the sons of Adam in the transgression be all â—n the Devils power where he is in the transgression out of the truth in one power murderers for the Devil a murtheâ—er sons of Adam mâ—râ—herers in the fall out of the truth Schismaticks and Apostates out of the truth murtherers and will all murther and noâ—â—dmired at with the children of Light who has tryed their spirits So Devil sons of Adam in the fall and Papists and Protestants that will all murther for Religion and worship be all in the Devils power Murtherers out of the truth that Christ and the Apostles was in so the Roman Catholique Church which will murther is Satans synagogue for he is the murtherer and there he hath his seat And all the Protestants that be murtherers about Religion and worship are Satans synagogue are Apostates and Schismatâ—cks as well as you they were the first great synagogue of Satan and the first Apostates and Schismaticks from the life of the Apostles and Christ though since the dayes of the Apostles you have apostatized from the life others has professed against you and so are broken into heaps and names Satan has got up many synagogues in many parts of the world and gotten the sheeps cloathing and cryed up himself to be the name of Châ—â—stian which is meer Antichrist quite against him compelling all by sword or faggot or prison or stocks or whips or houses of Correction or Gaols or Inquisitions to worship him This is quite against Christ the Apostles spirit in the apostasie from them apostatized So you may strange to see the Devils power over the sons of Adam Apostates and Schismaticks and not see your selves swallowed up in the Devils power doing his work Thus judging others not seeing your selves for the Devill sons of Adam in the fall from the truth and you who are apostatized from Christ and the Apostles Doctrine and the Schismaticks that be from you in words and sects and names that be called Protestants that will murther for Religion and Worship they be all in the same power which the Devil is in for the Devil is out of the truth the sons of Adam out of the truth and the church of Rome out of the truth apostatized Protestants and all others that be out of the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures be out of the truth such are murthering one another about words and are Satans synagogues wreâ—â—ling against flesh and blood Striking at creatures in stead of striking at the power that captivates creatures to the intent that creatures might come into the liberty of the Sons of God which was the work of the Apostles and Christ Pr. No man can discern head or foot of the Quakers method or order yet there is some shew of reason in their Quaeries Answ. Thus he confounds himself Babylon And we do believe that neither the Papists Apostates Protestants nor sons of Adam nor Dâ—vill out of the truth can know either head or foot of the Quakers principles with all their thinkings for the Quakers is come into that which the Devil is out of sons of Adam is out of the Papists are out of and the Protestants that which overwhelmes them all Devill sons of Adam Papists Protestants out of the life of God with it are they all judged which Life the Quakers are in Pr. He saith not one Papist that he knows doth call himselfe a defender of the Faith yet he saith in a sense in writing against our principles he might call himself a Defender of the Catholique Church and Faith and yet notwithstanding he could not defend himselfe from the Devill Answ. In this thou hast shewed thy faith and the faith of the Catholique Church which will not defend you from the Dâ—vill so ye are the reprobates from the faith of the Elect that quenches the fiery darts of the Devill and gives victory over the world and the Devill and is their shield and with that faith is his Kingdom subdued And we do believe that the faith will not defend you from the Devill and if thou knowest never a Papist that is a Defender of the Catholique Faith what have you done with all the fires and faggots and inquisitions and killings and slayings and writing of your great Volumns against them that have protested against you all this time but now your faith fails and your wheel is gone off and the confusion of Babylon is confounded and the faith of Gods Elect contended for witnessed amongst them called Quakers whose weapons are not carnall but spirituall And your wicked Priests and such as be in the reprobate sence like Judas betraying the just have been the Preachers and Teachers which has gotten the form of godlinesse but are out of the power and the life and these are them that have risen against the Saints and overcome them which are now warring against the Lamb and the Saints but the Lamb and the Saints shall have the victory Pr. And whereas you say you give the title of holinesse to the Pope after the same manner as was given to the high Priest in the Old Testament and wicked Magistrates was called gods and the Priests wear their titles upon their breasts and Jacob called his wicked brother Esau Lord and there is Scriptures enough to give honourable titles to wicked men Answ. These are
hath reigned since the days of the Apostles and whether or no the spirits of people hath not separated from since the dayes of the Apostles which they were in and is not that the cause that all Nations are brought into Sects and heaps and lost their unity with God and the Scriptures with which spirit they learned of God the Father of spirits that gave forth Scripture are you come unto the spirits of just men made perfect to the Church in God the Father the Judge of all What Scripture have you for taking Tythes and where did the Apostles take tythes so that denyed the first Priest-hood and witnessed Christ the sum the change of the Law by which the Priesthood was made And the disannulling of the commandement that gave tythes and are not you transgressors and made your selves transgressors that have set up these things the Apostles threw down And where did the Apostle take tythes and what is the first principle of pure Religion and what is the soul of man And have you not lost the Crosse of Christ which the Scripture saith is the power of God and hath set up Crosseâ— of wood and stone on the end of your Steeple-houses and do take bread and wine on the day-time which Christ took at night What is the light what is the word what is the Gospel what Scripture have you for sprinkling Infants Are you them that have heard and learned of God which Christ saith them that have heard and learned of God comes to the Son Have you seen the shape of God are you them that God speaks to by his Son who is heir of all things upholding all things by his word and power Is your Church the Church that is in God have you heard of the Father seeing it is written ye shall all be taught of God Are you not them that looks at things that are seen for things that are seen are temporall the things that are not seen are eternall Are not Images Idols Pictures Reliques Bones pieces of Cloath things that are â—een and temporall Answer these Queries in writing and send them to the people who are scornfully called Quakers in England by all the sects of the earth Shall a man whiles he is upon the earth be made free from sin and be made perfect and the body of sin put off And what Scripture have you for consecrating bread and wine and where did the Apostles so Will you try your Church by the Scripture of truth and measure your selves by the Apostles Declaration and venture your selves to be tryed and judged by them that the spirit of truth led them to speak forth And what is the Wine-presse that was troden without the City and whether you bid every man examine himselfe whether Christ be in him except he be a reprobate And whether or no you are as the Apostles who preached Christ in them the hope of glory warning every man that you may present every man perfect in him in Christ Jesus To prove the Papists Church to be a false Church contrary to the Apostles and that they are wolves which Christ said should come which are inwardly ravening Ye have the sheeps cloathing and are the false Prophets that should arise according to Christs words that should shew lying signes wonders which if it were possible should deceive the very elect and should say Loe Christ is here and loe Christ is there Do not you tell people that he is in the bread and that he is in the wine and tell them that he is in the chamber and that he is in the desert where you put the bread and the wine is not there Christ cannot you put him in the cup-board and in the chamber and in the desert cannot you put and tell people he is there And have you not the sheeps cloathing but are you not ravening wolves inwardly ravening from the spirit of God So doth not your fruits appear contrary to the Church of God For have not you fulfilled the Scriptures having the sheeps cloathing but inwardly are the ravening wolves Have not you ravened wearied and destroyed and killed many hundreds and have you not your holes and Gaols which you call Inquisitions which you put them in are you like the Church in this Did ever Lambs and the sheep weary and tear them to pieces and then carry them into dens and make wracks and tortures for poor creatures or for the wolves either Did ever the sheep destroy the wolves Now which doth your fruits make you appear to be the sheep or the wolves judge your selves by the Scriptures Now let all people judge you all that be in the wolvish nature that are not sheep no more then you So Christ calls them wolves inwardly ravening from the spirit of God these Christ said should come and they have come up since the dayes that Christ said they should come And the Apostle saith in Acts 20. That after his departure grievous wolves should enter in among them not sparing the flocke which should arise from among themselves speaking perverse things drawing many Disciples after them Now have not you Papists risen since the dayes of the Apostles and you know the Apostles did not prison persecute devour any but the wolves should do it Now these rise among the Saints that should not spare the flock mark make havock of the flock to devour and destroy the flock Now we remember that Christ told of you and of these things and the Apostle tells of these things 1 John 2. said it was the last time then Whereas they had heard that Antichrist should come even now there are many Antichrists and false prophets come into the world 2 Cor. 11.13 14 15. Paul speaking there of cutting off occasion For as much as false prophets deceitful workers transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ no marvel for Satan himself transformed himselfe and his Ministers transforming as the Ministers of righteousness Now this the Apostle saw come up among the Corinthians before his decease So now again you may see Satans Ministers they are murtherers and his Angels they are murtherers Now the Apostle said he out off the occasion he did not cut off the outward bodies of people as you do and the Apostles were persecuted whipped and beat now you see that you are whippers persecutors and beaters and though you persecute one another which have the name of Christians yet are not the sheep nor the Ministers or true Apostles nor the true Church And when the true Ministers and Apostles saw that these false Apostles should come and Ministers of Satan should tranâ—form themselves into Angels of light he brings them to the light that shined in their hearts them that would give them the knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor. 4. And are not you as bad as the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus Christ and their own Prophets who kill the Prophets that are sent among you 2 Thes. 2. And
Reader to that which is written in answer to the former papâ—r Again Thou saith that the Apostles and their successors had power to remit sins according to John 20.23 The Apostles who believed in the Son of God unto whom all power is committed and had received power from God could do nothing against the power which was their life and what they said and did from that power stâ—ndeth for the same power that Christ received of the Father the same he gave unto them and the same that they did remit was remitted But what is this to the Pope who is out of the power of God who follows his Successors the Antichrists Deceivers Apostates and vagabond Jewes and Exorsists who would have cast out Devils in the name that Paul preached but could not When did Christ or any of his Apostles say to the Pope or any of the Cardinals Fryars Monks Jesuites whose sins ever you remit are remitted Or when did he give the Pope or any of his Cardinals Fryars Jesuites Monks power to sell Pardons for money Is not this a doctrine of the Devill which Peter whose successors you say you are who declared against you and such as you who said concerning you that you taught those things for filthy lucre which you ought not to teach And further thou saiest thou confâ—sses that there are other points of Popish Doctrine which you teach that there is not such evident Scripture for as for those before mentioned if thou hadst said there had bin none at all thou had spoke truth this is the Popish doctrine which thou sayest you have not clear Scriptures for for Purgatory praying to Saints and baptizing of Infants c. I say there is no Scripture at all except it be your own devised Fables For the blood of Christ cleanseth from all sinne them that do believe and there is no need of any other thing to cleanse and so your Purgatory is a feigned fiction and a lying invented thing invented by the Pope to get money by And as for praying to the Saints there is no Scripture for but against it For it is written thâ—u shalt worship the Lord thy God and him ONLY shalt thou serve and cal upon me in the day of trouble It doth not say call upon the Saints And farthermore Christ said Whatsoever â—e aske in my name it shall be given you And farthermore Christ said to his Disciples Whatsoever you aske my father in my name it shall be granted unto you He exhorteth them not as the Pope doth to ask in the name of St. Mary and St. Peter and St. Dominick And as for baptizing of Infants that is an invention of your own framed and formed since the dayes of the Apostles For the Apostles were commanded to teach and preach before they baptized any but you baptize those that are untâ—ught and unlearned and these they call members of youâ— visible Church and so all this fâ—igned doctrine before mentioned is denyed and and condemned by the spirit oâ— the Lord which you are erred from 5 Prin. That the Scripture doth no where clearly teach that we must do nothing nor believe noâ—hing whiâ—h is not written in the Scripture so thou saith even by our own rule the whole foundation of all our nâ—w faith falls to pieces For if I am bound to believe nothing but what stands in Scripture then thou sayest thou art not bound to believe this maxime of Heretickes because it stands not in Scripture Answ. Paul was no Heretick and he said If I or an Angell from heaven preach any other Gospel let him be accurst And Moses he was no Hâ—retick and he said to the Church of the Jewes concerning the book of the Law given unto them Thou shall not adde thereto nor take therefrom And John he was no Hâ—retick and he said If any man shall add unto these things written in the book God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in the book And yet all these were Hâ—reticks in thy account their faith stood in the power of God and this the Scripture bears witness of and those things were written in the Scripture that they might be believed and from the spirit of truth they were written And so if thou professe thou have the spirit of truth thou art bound not to believe any thing contrary to the Scripture and here your foundation and doctrine is dashed to pieces by the spirit of God who spoke for the Scripture And farther thou goes on in thy blindness and ignorance and sayes thou art not bound to believe that the Bible is the word of God because it stands not in Scripture is not the Scripture that which is written in the Bible And dost thou not call the Scriptures the Word of God and yet foolishly saith the Bible stands not in the Scripture Thou goes on and says it is most clear that we are bound to believe and receive some things that are not written in the Scripture they who know the bond of the spirit are not bound by iâ— to beliâ—ve any thing which is contrary to the spirit which speak forth the Scripture Further thou brings 2 Thes. 2. and 15. 21 John 25. to prove that we are bound to believe something that is not â—ritten in the Scripture because the Apostle exhorts the Thessâ—lonians to stand fast and to hold the traditions which they had been taught whether by word or writing Now if thou can produce thou may the words that he taught to the Thessalonians which was spoken by the same spirit which he wrote the Epistleâ— by and that which he spake doubtlesse is not contrary to that which he wrote and so this proves nothing that every one is to believe your vain traditions which you have invented in your carnal minds being erred from the faith and having lost the spirit And although John say that there were many other things that Christ did which are not written Yet what doth this prove that your innovated stories and devised fables ought to be believed And I say unto thee and unto all you it is meer madnesse to aver or to believe that which is contrary to that which is written And then thou says if any man ask thee what those things be which Christ and the Apostles taught and have not written thou gives an answer thy selfe that they taught to baptize Infants and that we must sanctifie the Sundays and other holy days and to fast in Lent and acknowledge Sr. Peters successors for the governours of Christ-Church and to say Masse and with all other points of Catholique doctrine all which pack of lyes and foolish fopperies and invented imaginations which is all contrary to that which Christ spake and the Apostles wrote of him For these are all invented stuffe some from the Heathens you have by traditions and the rest has been invented both the words and the things themselves since the Apostles dayes wherein there hath been a great Apostacy and
be poured upon him and his seat So the Author of all these sects and names hath been from you that first ravened from the spirit of God all Sects upon the earth would kill one another about their worship which shews the spirit of the Devil and not the spirit of the Apostles So when the Beast had overcome the Saints and killed them and got power over all Kindreds Tongues and Nations And the woman fled into the wildernesse and the man-childe caught up to God And the Dragon made war with the â—emnant of her seed that kept the commands of God and here by this you may see where the Church hath been And the great Whore which went forth from the Apostles and ravened from the spirit of God yet hath had the sheeps cloathing which all Nations hath drank her cup She hath corrupted the earth and made the Inhabitants of the earth drunk and the Kings of the earth hath committed fornication with her and all nations have drunk her cup of fornication She sits upon the waters and the waters are peoples not a people and the waters are nations where the Whore sits and multitudes and tongues Now mark if Nations be waters and Peoples be waters and Multitude waters and Tongues waters And the earth is corrupted and the Inhabitants of the earth drunke and all nations have drunk the cup of fornication and the Kings of the earth hath committed fornication with her Now where is the Church and the Rock all this time when nations peoples multitudes and tongues are waters and the Inhabitants of the earth drunk and the earth corrupted and all nations have drunk the whores cup And the whore cannot be said to be the heathen for the Whore goes from something and there is the ancient visible Church And the Kings of the earth have committed fornication with her and all nations have drank the cup of fornication and fornication is before you be married And these are them that have drank the blood of the Prophets Saints and Martyrs that have kept the testimony of Jesus But now again the Lamb is brought forth to rule the Nations with a rod of Iron though the Beast and false Prophet and Kings of the earth and the old Dragon make war against the Lamb and the Saints yet the Lamb and the Saints shall get the victory and the everlasting Gospel shall be preached to all nations kindreds tongues and people and life and immortality shall come to light through the Gospel which your old great Grand-father went from in the dayes of the Apostles and so to that that they went from is people now come and coming and the Lambs wife is making her selfe ready and the Saints do sing the Lord God omnipotent reigns and you are all too immoderate spirits you and all other Sects then to be like the Apostles and Christ or to be like the Church of Christ your fallibility and your Idols Inquisitions and Cruelties makes it appear Two Queries being propounded to thee In thy answer to the first Query thou saist That all Churches or meetings of all sorts of men which have not the spirit of God they may erre In thy answer to the second Query thou saist That the Church of Christ or the meetings of those Christians that follow the rule and law of Christ and are always guided by them cannot erre in any truth Reply Your Church the Church of Rome have erred from the spirit of truth and the truth in which there is no errour As instance you have set up Idols and the spirit of truth in the true Church said Keep your selves from Idols as in Johns Epistle And you have made Ministers by men and by the will of man and so gone into your own wills which the Scripture came not by nor which Christs Ministers were not made by and you and all Apostates since are of men and made by men and so you are erred â—rom the spirit of truth that leads into all truth You are erred from the Crosse of Christ the power of God and have set up outward Crosses and falls down to that instead of falling down to the power of God You have erred from the true Image of God the Saints were in and have set up outward Images of wood and stone You have erred from the Saints life and spirit and from the spirits of just men and so from the true Church and so set up the Reliques as pieces of Cloath and old bones So you know after the flesh which the Apostles did not And you are erred from the Rock and falln into the waters as in Revelations And your Idols Pictures and Images have corrupted the earth so you are erred from the true Church and the true Spirit which cryed against Idols in all ages as Moses said in his command to the people and the Apostles Your Church is commanded to make Images and Idols and the Church in Moses time and the Apostles Churches were commanded to keep from them So no true Church you are but apostates but fallible and erred in matter of faith and doctrine and praised be the Lord who hath brought you to the Light And multitudes of instances may be shewed who compares the Church with what the Churches of Christians were in the dayes of the Apostles And thou saist the difficulty is where the Church of Christ is to be found for Papists Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists Arminians and all schismatical meetings they do claim the title of Christs Church to themselves c. Answ. All these the Roman Church being the mother of the Apostates and all these before-mentioned are started from her her sturdy sons and severall names still in the forme for the light within they are all against and Christ within to reigne and teach and the Law within in the heart and in the mind whereby all comes to know the Lord and the word in the heart and in the mouth to obey and do and the spirit of truth to lead into all truth whereby the Saints have unity one with another and with the Scriptures and with God This the Papâ—sts are run from into Images and Idols and this the Baptists Lutherans and all other Sects are run from into other Images within but with the spirit of truth which leads the Saints into all truth are these comprehended and out of all these sects and sorts are people coming I 'le break your names and marr your Images with the spirit of truth fence your selves never so wisely And so none of these nor you neither are of the true Church but the beast and his names but some of these you calâ— Sâ—cts are neerer the true Church then you for the world who lives in Images and Idols wonder after you who lives in Images and Idols who are apostatized from them keep your selves from Idols As for the Quakers who are risen in the Ancient of dayes in the end of the night of apostacy among whom that's appeared that cannot be shaken
Is this the love of Christ Is this the love of God Is this the love that was in the Apostles Did the Apostles do so did Christ do so that had all power c. to all that were not of their minde yea or nay answer 6 What differs your works from the works of the Pharisees for that which they did they did to be seen of men And the young man boasted of his works yet when it came that he should have sold all and followed Jesus the beloved of God there was the hard thing whereby he might have had treasure in heaven And how differs your giving almes from the Pharisees seeing the Pharisees were in your state to murther and murthered the just and you give almes and are found in the same nature that will and do murther them that be contrary minded to you wherein do you here differ from the Pharisees And Châ—ist saith love enemies and you have your Inquisitions and Fagots here his love differed from the Pharisees and yours And saith John Let us love in deed not in word not as Cain the wicked one who slew his brother because his works were righteous the others were evill And saith John He that killeth with the sword must perish with the sword here is the faith and patience of the Saints Now where is your patience that are killing and prisoninâ— And we wrestle not against flesh and blood saith the Apostle but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickednesses in high places How do you wrestle against principalities and powers and spiritual wickednesses in high places Does it not shew that your weapons are carnall and not spiritual while you are prisoning burning making inquisitions for the bodies of people that are contrary to your minde Do not you wrestle against flesh and blood Is not this to wrestle against flesh and blood to prison to burn to kill creatures are not you apostatized from the true Apostles and true Church which is the pillar and ground of truth who said We wrestle not against flesh and blood answer these things by Scripture 7 Do you own the Law and Prophets which is to do as you would be done by would you have all that be contrary to your minde do unto you as you do unto others to make Inquisitionâ— and to burn and to kill them that be contrary to their minde as you have your Inquisitions Fagots Fires for such that be contrary to your minde not observing your customes would you have others do so unto you and serve you so that will not observe your customes Is not to do as you would be done by the Law and the Prophets 8 Did ever Christ or the Apostles give any command that any should be put to death touching worship touching Religion shew me a command in Scripture from Christs or the Apostles mouths Are not they that murther slay and make war the Beast and the false Prophets under the dominion of the mother of Harlots and in the steps of Cain and Jezebel out of the steps of Christ and the Apostles 9 What is will-worship Does any worship God in the spirit truth but who be in that which the Devil is out of Can any being in the spirit and in the truth which the Devil is out of the Murtherer slay any concerning Religion or worship but on the coÌ„trary if they be in the evil overcome it with good Now if you kill murther slay make Inquisitions burn where is patience where is long suffering where is stopping the mouths of gain-sayers concerning gain saying if you cannot you have a fagot for them or a prison or an Inquisition are you not here like unto them that rose against Stephen that were not able to resist his spirit but stoned him to death wherein differs your nature and spirits from these did Stephen do so to others the Apostles were stoned did they do so to others Now this is Christs command he sent them forth as sheep amongst Wolves he sent out Prophets and Wisemen and said some they should kill and some they should thrust out of their Synagogues some they should persecute from City to City and said they should be hated of all men for his names sake and they should speak all manner of evil of them and were these to do so again to others kill hate hale out of Synagogues persecute Nay did not Christ say love enemies blesse them that curse now are not they that are contrary to this out of this Anti-christs and false Apostles 10. Has not the true Ministery true Spirit true Power true Church the true crosse been lost since the dayes of the Apostles and the false Ministery false Prophets false Apostles Antichrists Synagogues of Satan has appeared since which all your Crosses your names your pictures your Images your praying by beads has come up have not you lost the true spirit the Image of the Father and his name by which men are saved and so since run into other names run into Images lost the true Image run into Crosses lost the true Cross the power of God run into praying by beads and lost the true praying in the spirit and is not the Candle put out within and so ye have set up your lights burning without you defiled the Temple of God within and so set up Temples without are they not set up by that which defiles the inward Temple and is not that it which will murther slay prison and bring before Inquisitions which defiles the Temple of God seeing they that witnessed the Temple of God said love enemies and does not it shew that the love of God was there if love enemies which was a command of Christ who are them that are to be persecuted and hated and who are they that you are to slay and kill answer 11 Have you heard the voyce of God immediately from heaven as the Prophets Apostles did have you the same spirit wch Christ and the Apostles had which gave forth the Scriptures which was before they were given forth yea or nay 12. Is that the blood of Christ that is your wine which was shed upon the Cross when Christ was crucified alter you have consecrated it 13. Is that the body of Christ that is your bread after you have consecrated that said Lo a body hast thou prepared me to do the will of God and will not your bread corrupt and let it lye after you have consecrated it and does the body the flesh of Christ see corruption answer 14. What is the ground and cause of all the destractions amongst the called Christians is it not because they have the words of Christ the Prophets and Apostles but be cut of the life of them 15. What is that thing wch four men do carry on staves that all men must bow before it when you carry it in the streets and what do you do it for and where did Christ or the Apostels do any such thing 16. Why do
Is that the body of Christ the Church for the Apostle saith the body of Christ which is the Church 69 Is God worshipped in truth but in the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures and in that which the Devil is out of Now can any of you worship God in the truth unlesse you be in the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures then being in the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures how can you say that the Scripture is hard to be understood or any that be in the Church seeing the true Church is made up of living stones and the Scripture was given forth from the spirit 70 And whereas it is a generall word to say you believe as the Church believes and the Scriptures are hard to be understood Doth not this shew that you be all afraid of your standing and shew that your Church is in the state of apostacy from the Apostles and Disciples of the Lord Jesus that there is a cry amongst you the Scripture is hard to be understood And we must believe as the Church believes and the Church is the Pope and his Councel Now if he or his Councel dare not venture to try their standing to meet the spirit of God and to answer these Qâ—eries or all his train that be under him then shall we know and then shall it be seen who is the true Church and who are the apostates and set up a likenesse an Image And if you do shelter your selves in the darkness and not come forth to the light and dare not venture your Principles and is afraid of the heat and for fear that your heads should be cut or slashed and your principles dasht to pieces and see that your weapons will not carry you out and that your righteousnesse is but as rags and you have been but wolves covered with the sheeps cloathing and have been devourers of the Lambs and can do nothing without your swords and carnall weapons and your Inquisitions then may the whole world see you Therefore come out I challenge you all and give an answer either in print or in writing and bring your deeds to light that they may be manifested to the whole earth and declared on the house-top our weapons are not carnall with which we shall handle you neither need you fear your persons neither need you be afraid that we will wrestle with flesh and blood for that which was amongst the Apostles is come to that which hath been since the Apostles is seen The arm of flesh is not our weapons but the Lord of hosts Come thou Pope with all thy Jesuites and Cardinals and see if thou can stand this day before the truth for these queries be to the whole body and thee scattered up and down the face of the whole earth and the power of the Lord God of life of heaven and earth is gone over you and hath fathomed you 71 Was it the work of the Christians to be beating Dâ—ums up and down fighting destroying one another where has been loving enemies where has been overcoming evill with good and rendring to no man evill for evill 72 Doth not Christ say It hath been said of old time thou shalt perform thy oath unto the Lord But doth not he say swear not at all Now ye swearers have not you bâ—oken Christs command and have apostatized from his doctrine but if ye say the Prophets swore or Abraham swore or David swore or Solomon swore or Moses swore or the Priests swore Christ is the end of the Prophets and Priesthood a greater then Solomon then Joseph or Jacob Before Abraham was I am who saith swear not at all Now if you say did not the Apostles say an oath was an end of controversie and strife amongst men that men swore by the greater which the Apostle brings as an example shewing how God could not finde a greater and therefore swore by himselfe concerning his covenant that doth not change betwixt God and man in which covenant man comes to have peace with God Now if ye say did not the Angel swear in the Revelations I bring forth my first begotten into the world and let all the Angels worship him and this is the beloved Son heare ye him saith God And above all things my brethren saith the Apostle swear not at all neither by heaven nor by earth lest ye fall into condemnation So are not all you swearers fallen under condemnation and out of the Apostles doctrine and apostatized from it Nay is not the power which you call your supream under the condemnation and Magistrates that are swearers and giving oaths no Christian Magistrates but they and their power is all under condemnation all swearers upon the earth for saith the Apostle Above all things my brethren swear not at all left ye fall into condemnation So are not ye swearers who calls your selves a Church Pope Magistrates all upon the earth under condemnation and out of the doctrine of the Apostles false brethren and out of the power of Christ who has all power in heaven and eâ—rth given unto him who saith let your yea be yea and your nay nay in all your communications who is the end of oaths whose doctrine the Apostles preached and abode in Now are not all Churches Teachers powers Magistrates under condemnation that be the swearers and not the help-government to Christ out of the higher power all Magistrates from under the higher power that be swearers and out of Christs power and help Magistracy and government for him who has all power in heaven earth given unto him and out of the Apostles Doctrine and Christs Doctrine who saith Let all your communication be yea yea and nay nay for whatsoever is more is evill And so how can a company of swearers be a Church or the supream power which are the Beasts and false Prophets apostatized from the Apostles and Christs Doctrine and them that inwardly ravened from it and has had the shâ—eps cloathing that tear and rend all in pieces that will not come into the wolves way and bow down to that which he has set up and so therefore is the cry amongst you the Scripture is hard to be understood and you are tyed to believe as yoâ—â— Church believes so by that means you have held the out-side the sheeps cloathing and pretend to be saved by your works and meritâ— when the wolfe has been in your hearts tearing to pieces and rend and devour them that will not believe as you believe I cannot gainsay you in this as for your saying the Scriptures are hard to be understood when you are all ravened from the spirit that gave them forth 73 Where did ever any of the Saints change their names unlesse they had a command for it as ye do when ye are made Popes Did Peter change his name 74 Where was it amongst the Apostles that some might not marry and they might not at some times of the yeare marry but at those times they might
the same bread and the same wine of the which you have consecrated part and set them both together and let us have a watch over them seven of our side and seven of your side and see if that bread and wine do not corrupt and perish which ye have consecrated as well as the other which is not consecrated and prove not divine and prove not immortall but mortall as the other and if the bread and wine change not its taste then we will say it 's the body of Christ if it do not and ye will not prove deceivers But if it prove bread and wine and loose its taste and alter its property then acknowledg your selves to be deceivers but if it corrupt not but prove the body of Christ then the Protestants may acknowledge they have wronged you and be of your religion but if that prove to be bread and prove to be wine and mortall and not divine then shall you deny all your religion and acknowledge that you have wronged the Protestants and turn to the Truth So if you dare adventure to try your Christ openly and bring him out to the Light and see whether he will stand and whether he will not corrupt for the flesh of Christ which the Scripture speaks of saw no corruption So now if you will take a publique consideration and give a publique meeting after send to any of them in England called Quakers and let there be a publique tryall and his word that comes to passe shall be the true Prophet and his word that doth not shall be the false Prophet which ye are if the bread and wine corrupt and prove not divine and immortall These things have been taught for Doctrines about which there hath been fightings slaying and killing and much blood spilt so that your weapons are but carnall and not spiâ—ituall and there hath beene a great deale of profession of these things and a great denyall Now if you will try them publiquely if they stand you will come off with honour and give over fighting and killing one another about Religion but in patience and meeknesse let it be tryed and this will bring truth to light and honour to God If you dare not come to the light to a publique tryall and ye being so many Nations and Dominions acknowledge your selves to be Apostates and Deceivers and so fall under the truth and let the white horse go over you 13 Prin. I hold most constantly that there is one Purgatory and that the souls that are therein retained are helped by the supplications of the faithful 14 Prin. Likewise that one ought to honour and invoke or pray to the Saints which reigne with Jesus Christ and that they offer to God their supplication for us and that one ought to honour their Reliques Answ. The Scripture speaks of no purgatory and he that believes hath passed from death unto life and shall never dye nor come into condemnation And the wicked shall be turned into hell and all that forget God and death and hell must go into the lake of fire and God who breathed the breath of life into man by which man became a living soul he hath all souls in his hand and the honour which the Scripture speaks of it is owned but the honour which is given to the Saints from that are you apostatized and so your praying to Saints and for the dead is in the purgatory already your souls in the death so your soules are lean who feeds your fleshly minds with similitudes images Crosses Crucifixes old Reliques pieces of cloath or old bones which you call reliques of Saints so are full of dead mens bones a generation of murderers whose souls stands lean and bound and captivated and wants the vertue of the immortall food 15 Prin. I assure most firmely that one ought to have and to hold the Image of Jesus Christ and of the Mother of God alwayes Virgin and of the other Saints and render to them the honour and the veneration which appertains to them 16 Prin. I affirm yet that Jesus Christ hath left in the Church the power of Indulgences and that the use thereof is extreamly healing unto the people christian Answ. The power which ye have set up in your Church which gives the honour to the Image of Mary the Image of Christ and the other Saints that I do believe you that which you should give to Christ you give to Images but this doth but shew and make you manifest to be apostatizâ—d from the Apostles who had the minde of Christ and the image of the Son of God in them so this Church and its power is apostatized from the true Church and its power who are giving honour to the image of Christ Mary and the Saints which was not the work of the Apostles and Mary their saying ever a Virgin had not she children after to Joseph and when they said behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without desiring to speak with thee c. Is this the rise and ground of this word God-father and God-mother when your children are sprinkled Papists and Protestants 17 Prin. I know the holy Church Catholique Apostolique and Romane to be the Mother and Mistris of all the Churches and promise and swear true obedience to the Bishop of Rome successor of St. Peter Prince of the Apostles and Vicar of Jesus Christ Answ. I do believe you your Church as you call it Catholique is the Mistress and hath been the Mother of all Churches false of Babylon and the mother of the harlots from the true Church the Apostles and Saints was in in the Apostacy which hath been held up by the Sword Fires Faggots Inquisitions of the Popes and quite out of the faith of Peter who said render to no man evill for evill but if any man offend you ye will render evill again And for saying Peter was the Prince will ye give Paul the lye who said he came behinde none of the Apostles And Christ said He that would be greatest should be least and that there should be no Lordship exercised amongst them one over another And every man should have but his penny that went into the Vineyard 18 Prin. I receive also and professe without any doubt all other things which have been taught defined and declared by the sacred Canons and Councels universall and principally by the sacred holy Councel of Trent together all things contrary and all the heresies condemned rejected and anathematized by the Church I them condemn reject and anathematize likewise Answ. I do believe you who are bound up in the Apostacy from the true Church of the Apostles to that which your Councell hath set up without doubt but your tryall is not yet come and your selves you do not know as for that because your Councell Pope and Bishop their traditions of their own inventions and profession and Church and all things belonging to it hath been held up by an outward Sword Fires Faggots
lives unto the death And sometimes they have been more visible and sometimes lesse yet two or three that know the name of Christ and live in the power of Christ Christ is in the midst of them and they may be truly said to be a Church of Christ and these God hath promised to be with who believeth in Christ the power of God to the end of the world and against these the gates of hell shall never prevail And whereas thou saist He gave some Apostles and some Evangelists Pastors and Teachers for the worke of the Ministry for the perfecting of the Saints This is granted and it did and doth effect the same end for which he gave it But when ordained he the Popes the Cardinals the Fryars the Monks the Jesuites the Nunâ— for the work of the Ministry or whether have any of all these effected the same things which the Apostles did by their gifts But rather on the contrary They have perverted the straight way of the Lord and have made the word of God of none effect by their traditions and hath introduced and brought in those things to be observed amongst people which God hath neither commanded nor commended but on the contrary forbidden and condemned 3 Prin. That all those people or Congregations or meetings or Churches which have not been constantly visible from Christs time till now are not nor cannot be the Church of Christ and then thou makes this conclusion that the Roman Church can shew its constant and successive visibility from Christs time till now therefore the Roman Church must needs be the Church of Christ Answ. By thy own words thou hast proved your Church to be no Church of Christ neither your officers and Ministers to be Ministers of Christ for Matthew Mark Luke and John Peter Paul and the rest of the Apostles makes no mention of any such officers as Poâ—es Cardinals Fryars Monks nor Jesuites neither of any such doctrine did they allow of as you preach to wit the doctâ—ine of Devils in forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats wch God hath created and also teacâ—ing to make Images and set up Images and Idols and also teaching to burn and kill and destroy them whom you call Hereticks which Christ nor none of the Apostles ever did So that it is manifest from the Scripture of truth that your visible Church was not always since Christs day for Peter Paul and many of the Apostles lived after Christs day and they make no mention of any such ministry doctrine or practice as is found amongst you onely foretels of you and prophesies of you that Antichrist should come Deceivers should come and false prophets should come and Peter whose successors you say you are he foretold of you and hath left his testimony against you against them who preach for filthy lucre those things the Apostles taught not Amongst many things this is one in teaching and making people believe a purgatory after they be dead and this was invented by you to get filthy lucre and to get dishonest gain Another thing to give pardons that you may get money and filthy lucre so that it is manifest you are none of Peters successors but are apostatized from the faith from the doctrine from the practice of Christ of the Churches of Christ in the dayes of the Apostles and were not visible then nor counted the Church of Christ by any in many years aâ—ter the decease of the Apostles But the false Prophets that Christ spake should come which John and Paul and Peter saw creeping in then who erred from the faith and apostatized from the truth who subverted whole housholds from the faith there 's your originall they that did subvert and they that were subverted and held part of the form of godlinesse denyed the power there is the beginning of your visible Church Antichrists false Prophets Seducers and seduced you are their successors and from thence your visibility came to be seen in the world So in that which I have said doth clearly evidence that you have not constantly visibly had the name of a Church since Christs time although you call your selves the ancient Church And I say unto thee in thine owne words Except thou be bewitched and possessed with a spirit of blindnesse here is enough to convince thee and all thy visible members that your Roman Church is not so ancient as Christ nor the Apostles But you are quite another thing which hath sprung up since and are apostatized from the Doctrine and from the Faith which the Churches which were before you were in as the Church at Jerusalem at Antioch and the rest of the Churches which had received the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ without respect of persons from which faith you are now reprobated 4 Principle Thou saist that Luther Calvin Memno Beza and others were first popish Priests and those that followed them was first of the Church of Rome and these thou saist fell from the Faith and were accounted by you Hereticks and sayes they ought to produce more evidence for their faith which they professed being separated from you then you need to do from whom they separated Answ. They are Hereticks who denies the true foundation and who erre from the true faith which the Saints possessed and and lived in But your visible Church have left the true foundation and have erred from the faith which Christ and the Apostles declared and lived in therefore you are the Hereticks Therefore Luther Calvin Memno and Beza and the rest seeing your Doctrine Principles and Faith to be contrary to the Doctrine of Christ and the Primitive Churches God opening their eyes and let them see that you had innovated and brought in another Doctrine and other practices then had been taught or practised amongst the Apostles therefore they denyed yoâ— in many things although they were not clearly come off your principles nor did not see clearly thorow your deceit yet so far as they saw by the light of the Lord they bore testimony against you and gave a clearer demonstration that you were out of the faith then you ever did or can do that you were in the Faith But that is made manifest in this the day of the Lords power which sees over you and beyond you and comprehends your ground and all the body of your Religion which stands in imitations imaginations inventions and traditions And further thou saith that you can bring more Scripture for your Catholique doctrin then they that are separated from you and thou brings two Scriptures to prove some of your doctrine and sayest that the Church of Rome teaches that Christs body is reall in the Sacrament for which thou brings the 11 Cor. 23 24. verses which proves nothing to the purpose for the body of Christ is incorruptible and saw no corruption But bread corruptâ— and will corrupt notwithstandâ—ng all your consecration but as concerning this I shall refer the
against whom you and all the sects upon eaâ—th appears that are come up since the dayes of the Apostles whom they comprehend and will tread to dust and to powder The seed of God is risen and the top-stone is laid glory to God in tâ—e highest Come out all Sects and Sâ—ctaries to the battel and you are all in the vanity contenders and pretendeders got up since the days of the Apostles the marks are appeared not to be the marks oâ— the Sâ—ints who hath the Fathers name written in their foreheads but you have the mark of the Beast upon you and without the true ground and the true reason of the Apostlâ—s â—re you out of For instâ—nce the true Church taught not to persecute and the true reasonable men that was in the faith for faith gives victory over that nature in particular that would persecute and so doth not lead to kill the Creature for the sake of the nature in it in general And fafth teaches not this Dâ—ctâ—ine but denies it and brings to suffer all things through which mountains are subdued Thou further saist They that are of a wicked life may have a right faith and reproves others that cannot believe it Answ. A wicked man he hath not faith of the elâ—ct of God for faith gives victory over wickednesse and faith purifies and faith makes reasonable and who are of the faith are of Abraham and come out of all these adulterous generations the mystery of Faiâ—h is hâ—ld in a pure conscience Now here you are in the errour you Papists and all Apostates from the Apostles like the Jewes and the Devil that hath a belief but is out of the truth yet may get a belief in the Letter as the Jewes held a belief long in the Letter but kill'd the Son And you have had the Letter and form of godlinesse long but killed the Saints and Martyrs who are reprobated Devils Jewes Apostates Papists from the elect of God for who are of faith â—re of Abraham and who are of Abraham are of the elect of Christ which doth not pertain to Idols And here is the mystery of the Church known the body of Christ which is a top of your flesh and Idols both which is not of the flâ—sh of Abraham nor of the Church All you are but the pretenders of the Spirit of Christ in the apostacy from it since the dayes of the Apostles as your fruits declare your names and Images So I confesse to you it is the ancientest form that hath been since the dayes of the Apostles but had I never known the Papists nor none of these Sectaries we had knowâ— truth We came not through the Popes channels but are come to that which all Apostates ravened from and so you your selves must be put to silence and your mouths stopped which are the evill beasts that tears one another worse then the common beasts which the Apostles speak of which was coming up before his decease How are you learning one another about your meat and husks and worships and images and helps and Teachers and Scriptures which was not the work of them that gave it forth with your horns And how many Images have you upon you and names and marks and what are all these Images and marks but the marks and Images of the beast which is risen since the days of the Apostles Whereas thou Queriest what be all these but sect as Independents Anabaptists and other Sectaries which sayest thou was first of the Church of Rome and thou sâ—yest the Church of Rome cannot be said to be sectaries because it hath been constant since the dayes of the Apostles and all Sectaries springed from it and not you from them Answ. The Roman Church was the first made up of Hereticks Schismaticks and Apostates and Reprobates and Antichrists and false Prophets which Christ said should come Matth. 7. and John said was come and as you may read in Timothy and Titus Reprobate from the faith and erred from the faith and had the form of godlinesse and denyed the power and kept the form and as John said was come and they went after Idols before his decease and he writ to the little children to keep themselves from Idols And Jude saw them crept up before they were aware which went in Corah's Balaams and Cains way that were Murtherers And are not you Murtherers that murther one another as Cain about his sacrifice And Jude saw they turned the grace of God into wantonnesse which should be their teacher and salvation So all these self-separations Apostates Reprobates which went after the doctrine of Devils and forbid meats and marriages and the spirit spoke expresly should depart from the faith and â—ll these have made up the Church of Rome and there 's your visible Church held up by Cains weapons Then as for all these Sectaries springed from you you were like to beget no other children but bastards which is but a false conception brought forth by the will of man which is applyed that God got it and fathers it upon God And as for all these Sects which are sprung of you are like no other wayes but like to a Sea and burst into names which went from the spirit of God you are not like to be kept in unity who ravened from the spirit of God the life of Christ and the Apostles was in and to that which you ravened from are people come and coming which stands a-top of you all They that worship God must worship him in spirit which mortifies all sin and corruptions and they that worship God must worship him in truth in that the Devill abode not in To all the Papists upon the Earth TO come out and try their faith and strength without Cains weapons for there was two that did sacrifice and the one killed the other about the sacrifice and whether of these two was excepted can you read your selves and which was the vagabond It 's said that the Pope and the Church of Rome hath the Key and it 's left to them and ye are the keepers of the Key Now if you be keepers of the Key ye are to open to Nations about you and to render a reason of the hope that is in you if the Lord be sanctified in your hearts you will Are you according to the Scriptures Is the practice of your Church according to the Scriptures Is the spirit of the Lord powred upon you and all flesh Doth your sons and your daughters prophesie And if any thing be revealed to another that sits by you and bids another hold his peace that is speaking for you may all prophesie one by one Or are you not like others and the rest of the Sects that will put them in prison and say they have disturbed you and so shew your selves both Reprobates and Hereticks from the Church and the Spirit that the Apostles were in And can you say Christ is in you male and female Or are you not reprobates and say you
like they that have a horn to call their hounds together or the Swine-heard for people to put forth Swine or hower-glasses to preach by the hower prove it by scripture else acknowledge your are in the Apostacy and have set up â—hese things by your own inventions and are them that limit the spirit 62. Where did ever the Apostles consecrate any thing or the scripture speak of Sacraments or where did the Apostles use that which you call holy Water to sprinkle people withal if you cannot shew it by scripture where the Apostles or Christ diâ— practise any such thing acknowledge your selves that you be in the Apostacy that have set up such things since the dayes of the Apostles and erred from the true Church in your inventions 63. Where did the Apostles when they went to preach or to pray put on white Hoods Copes Tippets white Surplisses and cornered Caps are not all these things got up since the dayes of the Apostles amongst such as are apostatâ—zâ—d from them 64. Who are the inwardly Raveners that Christ said should come which was the false Prophets which should have the Sheeps clothing but inwardly ravening Wolves an inwardly ravening Wolf worse then a dog which got the sheeps clothing is not this it that has made war against the Saints that kept the testimony of Jesus the Spirit of prophesy and has not the wolf been covered with the sheeps clothing long such as ravined from the spirit such as has inwardly ravened and would ravine and destroy all that be contrary minded 65. Have not men fallen into the flesh since the dayes of the Apostacy and ravined from the spirit that went forth from the Apostles are not they them that has set up all these outward things as Temples Tythes Priests crosses crucifixes Schooles Colledges to make them Ministers Images Idols Abbies Nunneries Candels Altars Holy waters Praying by Beads sprinkling children with the sign of the crosse and have not you gone back who are ravened from the spirit and so lost the substance and so imitating Aaron and his Sons and imitating Altars and outward things that stood in Moses which the Apostle sayes while Moses was read the veil was over their hearts 66. Was not the first Priest-hood a true tipe and the Temple a true tipe of the inward and the Sanctuary and Altar a tipe and the outward things in the Law shadowing forth the good things that were to come which were but to have their times and seasons and did not the Apostle witnesse the substance of all tipes figures and shadows and signs and similitudes and likenesses and witnessed that which gave him to see where there was no shadow nor changing Now are not all your tythes Temples Priests Altars Crosses Crucifixes Images Similitudes Beads Cloysters Abbies Nunneries set up by your own inventions which men and people has been compelled to worship are not all these lying signs and wonders and the worship of the beast that which they that inwardly ravened set up and is not this to give worship to them that inwardly ravined from the spirit of God who are the Wolves that â—an make a profession of Christs and the Apostles words the Beast and false Prophets which the world has wondred after and should deceive them with their lying signes and wonders Did not the Apostles give hints of such things before their decease did not John see such come as the whole world went after and all that dwelt upon the earth worshipped the Beast Now answer me these things and clear me them by Scripture where the Apostles did practise or act any such things before mentioned and if ye be not such that John and the Apostles speaks of and Christ that should be the inward ravening wolves and go forth from the Apostles which John saw all that dwelt upon the earth worshipped and went after and all that dwelt upon the earth drunk the cup of fornication and should deceive them that dwell upon the earth with their lying signes and wonders and miracles and if you be not them tell me who they are 67 What is the Beast and the number of his names and what are his names and what is his marke that they that would not receive should be persecuted And what is his image and what are his heads and what are his crowns and what is the mother of the harlots and what is the great whore which hath corrupted the earth and what is the cup of fornication that all Nations has drunk of and who are the Beast and false Prophets what are they that are come up since the dayes of the Apostles How to say you believe as the Church believes and you will not trouble your selves about the Scriptures because they are hard to â—e understood you are to see that you be of the Church that the Apostles were of which was the pillar and ground of truth which was without spot or wrinkle or blemish and so their belief stood in Christ and God And when any did wrong yea Peter Peter was withstood and not believed as he believed And as for saying the Scriptures are hard to be understood that is to shew you want the spiâ—it as was in them that gave them forth in which is the unity and the bond of peace And none comes to be a member of the Church in God the pillar and ground of truth without spot or wrinkle or blemish but who comes into the spirit that they were in that gave forth the Scriptures with which spirit every one in particular hath his particular satisfaction in the Scripture it opens it to them with which spirit he hath unity with God unity with the Scriptures of whom they learned that gave them forth and there is the bond of peace Now to tye up men to believe as others believe and to compell them by a law or a prison or an inquisition this was not in the true Church but this is a marke of the apostacy from it and is a marke that they that do so are the wresters of the Scriptures and err'd ravened from the spirit that they were in that gave them forth For it was not their worke to compell people by a Law by a prison by an Inquisition to obey their faith and to bring them into their worship and doctrine that was not the worke of them that had the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures but this shews and signifies and declares it selfe forth that you would have power over mens faith which saith the Apostles we have not but bade them look at Jesus the author of the faith And again to believe as others believe which do call themselves a Church Is not this different from the Apostles doctrine who saith he that believes hath the witnesse in himself and hast thou faith have it to thy self 68 Is your Church the body of Christ and is your bread the body of Christ after consecration and is that bread after you have consecrated it the Church