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A18004 A discourse Wherein is plainly proued by the order of time and place, that Peter was neuer at Rome. Furthermore, that neither Peter nor the Pope is the head of Christes Church. Also an interpretation vpon the second Epistle of S. Paul to the Thessalonians, the second chapter. Seene and alowed according to the order appointed.; Discourse. Wherein is plainly proved by the order of time and place, that Peter was never at Rome. Carlile, Christopher, d. 1588? 1572 (1572) STC 4655; ESTC S107558 88,721 116

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against the hole land against the Preistes Kinges people and the mighty Princes of Iuda and such Tyrauntes Ieremy intreateth of in the end of his fystenth chapter If euery good man bée a lyuely stone as Peter him self writeth and all the congregation a Spirituall howse and the howse of God the piller and ground of truthe and lykewyse Christes own body and the fulnesse of him that filleth all thinges Than is not the Pope Cardinalles and Clergie the church and pillers in whom dwelleth no vertue Neyther Peter had any other keys than Adam Seth Noe Melchisedeck Abraam Iob Moses and all the faythfull had from the beginning The keys of the Kingdome of heauen are the opening and interpretacion of the Scripture What keye sayeth Tertullian in the .iiii. booke against Mar. had the Doctours of the Lawe saue interpretation Tertullian inuehing ageinst the Eustix affirmeth the keys to bée gyuen generally to all the which euery man whan hée departeth hence carieth with him Wherfore who so euer confesseth his sinnes repenteth and beléeueth in Christ hath these keyes wherwith hée openeth the locke and entereth intoo heauenly felicitie Euery man may bynde and loase him self Augustinus de doctrina lib. 1. cap. 8. sayeth Too binde is too perseuer in errour too procede in vyce too louse too repente him of his sinne beléeue that here in earth his sinnes shall bée forgiuen him And this is too bynd and louse The second Obiection Hée that giueth authoritie too the Church is supreme head But the Pope giueth authoritie to the church ergo hée is supreme head I deny your assumption called otherwyse the Minor. Wée proue it say they by S. Augustine who sayeth I wold not beléeue the Scriptures if the catholique church should not moue mée I answer This church that Augustine speaketh of is not the church of Rome and therfore the Pope giueth no authoritie to the church If Augustine had meaned the church of Rome then their argumēt myght haue semed to haue had a good ground But Augustine meaned the church of Christ as the Crede it self expoundeth it What is the Catholique Church The Crede answereth and interpreteth in these words A communion societie or companie of all Saincts and Godly men Nowe if Rome bée all the world and a communion of Saincts only then is it the only Church but it is neyther all the world neyther a communion of Saincts therfore it is not the Church Are shamefull synners Saincts horrible offenders Holy Augustine meaned by the Catholique Church Christ and his Disciples and the consent of all them which sawe Christ which heard him and his Disciples and therfore is it called in the common Crede of Nice the Apostolique church If Augustine did imagine that the Scriptures should take authoritie of the church it had bin an absurditie considering that there is no congregation so perfect no company so holy no men so pure which do not dayly desire God too forgyue them their offences as they forgyue them that offend against them If wée saye wée sinne not wée are lyers and there is no truth in vs. Let vs proue both by Reason which is the Lawe of Nature infixed in man Naturally and by Scripture that the Church doth take her authoritie of the Woord and not the Woord of the Church If Cleantes and other Philosophers as Tullie testifieth affirme partly by the Naturall motions of their myndes no doubt moued by inspiration that there is a GOD partly by the presciencie and foreknowledge of the thinges to comme partly by the commodities which proceede of the temperature of the ayer the plenty abundance of all thinges necessary for mans vse partly by tempestes thunder inundacions hayle lightening earthquakes stormes wonders miracles blasing starres eclipses of Sonne and Moone of the reuolution of the heauens of the constant and certein course of the fixed Starres and Planettes Than must wée confirme with Dauid and Paule that Gods power nature and diuinitie is knowen by visible thinges subiected to our senses If Dauid and Paule proue by the naturall courses of the heauens that there is a God neyther any people to bée so ignorant any Nati●n so rude any country so Barbarous which haue not heard their voyces for Dauid sayeth Their sound are gone through all the world Or as it is in the Hebrew Their rule course is knowē through all the world By a figure the sound voyce is attributed in the .19 Psal. to the heauens bycause they declare vntoo vs with their constant course mouing and other meruelous dispositions constellations and influences that there is a god And by this meanes Paule proueth the Gentyles to bée without excuse bycause they might haue knowen God by his creatures and dyd knowe but dyd not glorifye him as god By these it is euident that the heauens and Gods woounderous workes are not the causes why there is a God but God is the cause of them and they are as witnesses and testimonies that there must néedes bée a god And bycause al the Scriptures teache nothing else but God to bée the maker defender and gouerner of all wée are assured that they are the true scriptures bycause they agrée with this lawe of Nature wyth this Heauenly description and celestiall disposition wherby there is vnderstand to bée a god If Dauid and Paule prooue the diuinitie power and prouidence of God by his creatures so must wée allowe the scriptures by the same meanes bycause they differ not from the discourse Wherefore the church taketh no authoritie of it selfe but of God nor the scriptures any power of men whiche are full of erroures Wée knowe Moses Danyels Salomons Iobs woorkes and the rest of the scriptures to bée of force bycause they agrée with the rule of nature They are witnesses but no authours If a Lawyer aunswere by the Lawe hée dooth his dutie but if hée aunswere of his own brayne it is nought neyther will any man beléeue him Hée is a wicked Iudge that attributeth more to hys owne witte and will than to the lawe This doth the Pope contrarie to all the auncient Doctours and vertuous writers who affirme no man to bée beléeued onlesse hée alleadge the scriptures If an Ambassadour goe from one Prince to an other and be commaunded neyther to adde to his commission nor diminishe hée is a traytour if hée doo How much more the Pope who by his false embassage dooth not onely adde and diminishe where hee lusteth but also chaungeth peruerteth correcteth depraueth and abolissheth the Scriptures setting vppe hys owne constitutions and braynelesse Decréees The Prince to whome this Embassadour is sent cannot tell whether his commission is true or no but by conferring of the other Princes letters out of the which he must haue the truthe So must wée runne to the scriptures and trye by them whether the Pope and other impure spirits doo well in vsurping such authoritie The Church may bée a
witnesse that these are the Scriptures as the heauenly bodyes that there is a God are the scriptures any better although they bée as testimonialles The church may bée witnesse the faythefull people may testifie that these are the scriptures and yet the scriptures perfect constant and certayne of them selues Augustine lib. 2. cap. 14.32 willeth Cresconius to omitte the authoritie of Cyprian and alledge the scripture the which if hée could hée would gyue place Ageynst Maximinus hée willeth him to let the councelles alone and bring scripture that thereby th● truth myght be tryed The third Obiection The Pope is called in the first chapter of the Gospell of Iohn ver 42. Cephas and Cepha in the Gréeke toung is Caput a head Ergo the Pope is head of the church Your ignorance is intollerable you despise the tunges yée will rather cleaue to your olde errours and gloses then to séeke for the truthe You forsake the fountaynes and digge and drinke of pudles and kennelles You wrest and turne the scriptures from the meaning of Christe too satisfie your own opinions Your reading in the Texte Cephas which is a Syrian woorde thought that it had ben Cephale a gréeke woorde For saye you Cephas is an head in gréeke and commeth of Cephale and therefore you saye that Peter who was called Cephas is the head of the church when as Cepha the Syrian word which signifyeth a stone being turned into Gréeke soundeth Cephas Thus yée turned whyte into blacke y ée choppe ye chaunge ye turne ye peruerte and depraue all for lacke of knowledge For Christ sayeth that wheras Peter was called before Symon his name should be chaunged and called Cephas which is a stone as Iohn himselfe interpreteth it Bycause that not onely Peter but also all they that beléeue in Christ are lyuely stones As out of a stone commeth fyre so dooth burning charitie out of godly men As a stone or Rocke is stronge stedfast and firme so is euery Peter I meane euery Christian ageynst whose fayth no Tyrannie no Hell gates no persecution no affliction can preuayle What doo I saye doo they not preueyle yea they preuayle ageynst the bodye the Soule they cannot kyll The fourth Obiection Is not hée the chief and head that is firste named Is not a King named afore his subiectes The husbande before the wyfe Peter was first named I aunswere Is Priscilla better then hir husbande bycause that shée is first named in the text and Aquila after her But that cannot bée for S. Paule sayth that the man is the woomans head This woord Protos as Theophilacte interpreteth hath hys respect onely to his brother Andrewe who was called before and Peter after for they twoo were protokleti And notwithstanding that Peter is named first in some places yit is Andrewe named before him as in the first of Iohn ver 44. Philip sayeth Iohn was of the same Citie that Andrewe Peter were of And in the 24. ver of the 20. chaptes of Mathew the other 10. were offended with Iames Iohn In the which text Peter was not named the first but only with the rest We are forbidden to giue Supremacie too any Bishop Esoitai oi eschatoi protoi Kai oi protoi eschatoi oi eschatoi The fyfte Obiection The Popes may lawfully depose Emperoures For as the Moone taketh light of the Sunne so dooth the Emperour of the Pope And the Pope maye treade vppon the Emperoures necke as Pope Alexander dyd vppon the necke of Fredericke the seconde Emperour of that name And that was prophecied longe before by Dauid a friend of ours in these woordes Super Aspidem Basyliscum ambulabis conculcabis Draconem Leonem Thou shalt walke vppon the Adder and Basyliske and shalt tread vppon the Dragon and Lyon. O you Tyrauntes O you rebelles Where is your Truthe where is your Obedience Was it not spoken of Christe and so generally to all good men ageynst whome the force of the Deuill should not preuayle Doo you so intreat your Kinge and Prince Howe dare you bée so bolde as to call your Emperoure Aspis Basylick Lyon and Dragon much lesse ought you to tread vppon them too putte them too deathe and too depose them They haue authoritie by Gods woord too rule ouer you too haue you in subiection and not you them You alledge Scripture as though the Dyuell did too Christ and the next verse too that which the Dyuell alledged as though the Dyuell and the Pope were saying Matynes toogether The sixth Obiection Well say what ye will our holy Father may do what hée list What if hee should sell the whole world perhaps ye will say that it were Symonie but I will sweare vppon a booke that it were no Symonie though hée solde the whole world bycause that hée selleth but his owne for so our olde freind Dauid prophecied vppon him Omnia subiecisti sub pedibus eius oues boues pecora campi Thou hast put all thinges vnder his féete all shéepe and oxen yea all the beastes of the field O heauen O earth the Dyuell alledged Scripture more probably Surely Dauid speaketh of man too whom God hath giuen all thinges for his vse commoditie and Allegorically too Christ whom hée hath made Lorde and King ouer all The seuenth Obiection Did not Pope Agatho write in an Epistle to the Emperours in the fourth Action of the Synode at Constantinople that the church of Roome did neuer erre neyther was possible that it should erre Is not this ynough Is it not a goodly saying Is it not woorthy too bée embraced O what a goulden sentence is this Where can you read the lyke I assure you it is not possible too bée answered I answer that I am able too proue that euery Pope hath erred if synne bée errour Moreouer the most iust man sinneth seuen tymes and hée that sayeth that hée hath no sinne is a lyer there is no truth in him The eight Obiection Panormitane an Archebishoppe did affirme and reason in a Councell at Basile in the .xxxix. Session that the Pope ought too bée aboue all Bishoppes I answer that the sayd Panormitane made an Oration too that effect and made the Pope Lorde ouer the Church notwithstanding the Bishoppe of Argens Iohn Segouius and Fraunces de Funx Diuines confuted that errour in the said Councell proued Pope Eugenius the fourth of that name to bée a relapse and an heretique bycause that hée tooke vpon him too dissolue transporte prorogue that Councell Can hée bée Lorde ouer the Church that should bée a minister and as hée wryteth him self Seruus seruorum Peter willeth no man no Bishoppe too rule ouer the Chuch but too bée ruled by the Church The ninth Obiection Oraui pro te Petre ne deficiat fides tua I haue prayed for thée Peter that thy fayth should not fayl thée Hée can not erre whom Christ prayeth for