Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	scripture_n	spirit_n	try_v	2,382	5	8.8588	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14614	The copies of certaine letters vvhich haue passed betweene Spaine and England in matter of religion Concerning the generall motiues to the Romane obedience. Betweene Master Iames Wadesworth, a late pensioner of the holy Inquisition in Siuill, and W. Bedell a minister of the Gospell of Iesus Christ in Suffolke.	Wadsworth, James, 1572?-1623.; Bedell, William, 1571-1642. aut; Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656.	1624 (1624)	STC 24925; ESTC S119341	112,807	174

passage of holy Scripture For your conceit or desire that such a Iudge there should be to whom you might in conscience obey and yeeld your selfe because he could not err● doth not proue it You would know the Truth onely by the authoritie and sole pronouncing of the Iudges mouth A short and easie way which to most men is plausible because it spares the paines of studie and discourse To such especially as either out of weaknesse dare not trust their owne iudgement or account it shall haue the merit of humilitie to bee led by their Teachers But what now if God will haue you call no man your Father vpon earth If he will send you to his Word and after you haue receiued the Faith by the Churches testimonie out of the easie and plaine places thereof bid you search the Scriptures to finde the Truth in the remnant and pick it out by your owne industrie The rich man being in hell torments in whose wordes I doubt not but our Sauiour doth impersonate and represent the conceits of many men liuing in this world presumes that if one were sent from the dead his Kinsmen would hearken to him but he is remitted to Moses and the Prophets The Iewes as I perceiued by speech with some of them at Venice make it one of their motiues that our Lord Iesus is not the Christ. He should not say they haue come in such a fashion to leaue his owne Nation in doubt and suspence and scandalize so many thousands but so as all men might know him to be what he was Miserable men that will giue lawes to God Of which fault be you a ware also good Master Waddesworth and be content to take not to prescribe the meanes by which you will be brought vnto the knowledge of the Truth to vse what hee hath giuen not to coniecture and diuine what he must giue But God failes not his Church in such meanes as be necessarie Let vs therefore consider the necessitie of this Iudge Where I beseech you consider for I am sure you cannot but know it that all things necessary to saluation are euidently set downe in holy Scripture This both the Sciptures themselues doe teach and the Fathers auouch namely Saint Augustine and Saint Chrysostome and others I forbeare to set downe their words or further to confirme this Lemma which I proued at large against another aduersarie and shall at all times make good if it be questioned Besides these points there are a great manie other though not of such necessitie yet euidently laid downe also in the same Scriptures by occasion of them Manie by iust discourse may be cleared from these and the former If any thing yet remaine in suspence and vnknowne yea or if you will erred in so it be not wilfully and obstinately yet shall it be euer without perill of damnation to him that receiueth what the holy Ghost hath plainely deliuered What necessitie then of your imaginarie Iudge Yes for Vnitie is a goodly thing not onely in matters necessarie but vniuersally in all Controuersies must not bee endlesse But how comes it to passe then that your Iudge whosoeuer hee be doth not all this while decide the question touching the Conception of the Blessed Virgin that is betweene the Dominicans and Franciscans nor that betweene the Dominicans and Iesuites touching Grace and Free-will and all other the points that are controuerted in the Schooles to spare contention and time a precious commoditie among wise men and giue this honour to Diuinitie alone that in ●t all doubts should be reduced to certainties Or if it seeme no wisedome to bee hastie in deciding such questions wherein wittie and learned men are engaged least in stead of changing their opinions they should fall to challenge not onely the infallibilitie but which were more dangerous the authoritie of their Iudge If it be thought better to leaue scope to opinions opposition it selfe profitably seruing to the boulting out of the truth If vnitie in all things bee as it seemes despaired of by this your Gellius himselfe why are wee not content with vnitie in things necessary to saluation expresly set downe in holy Scripture and anciently thought to suffice reseruing infallibilitie as an honour proper to God speaking there Why should it not be thought to suffice that euery man hauing imbraced that necessarie truth which is the rule of our faith thereby trie the spirits whether they be of God or no. If hee meete with any that hath not that doctrine receiue him not to house nor salute him If consenting to that but otherwise infirme or erring yet charitably beare with him This for euery priuate man As for the publike order peace of the Church God hath giuen Pastors and Teachers that we should not bee carried about with euery winde of doctrine and amongst them appointed Bishops to command that men teach no other or forraine doctrine which was the end of Timothy his leauing at Ephesus 1. Tim. 1. 3. Then the Apostles themselues by their example haue commended to the Church the wholsome vse of Synodes to determine of such controuersies as cannot by the former meanes be composed but still by the holy Scriptures the Law or Rule as you say well by which all these Iudges must proceede Which if they doe not then may they be deceiued themselues and deceiue others as experience hath shewed yet neuer bee able to extinguish the truth To come to Antiquitie There is not any one thing belonging to Christian Religion if wee consider well of more importance then how the puritie of the whole may bee maintayned The Ancients that write of the rest of Christian Doctrine is it not a miracle had they knowne any such infall●ble Iudge in whose Oracle the securitie of all with the perpetuall tranquillitie of the Church is contayned they should say nothing of him There was neuer any Age wherein there haue not beene heresies and sects to which of them was it euer obiected that they had no infallible Iudge How soone would they haue fought to amend that defect if it had beene a currant doctrine in those times that the true Church cannot bee without such an Officer The Fathers that dealt with them why did they not lay aside all disputing and appeale them only to this Barre Vnlesse perhaps that were the let which Cardinall Bellarmine tells the Venetians hindered Saint Paul from appealing to Saint Peter l●st they should haue made their Aduersaries to laugh at them for their labour Well howsoeuer the Cardinall hath found out a merrie reason for Saint Paules appealing to Caesars iudgement not Peters lest hee should expose himselfe to the laughter of Pagans what shall wee say when the Fathers write professedly to instruct Catholike men of the forepleadings and aduantages to bee vsed against Heretikes euen without descending to triall by Scriptures or of some certaine generall and ordinarie way to discerne the Truth of the Catholike Faith from the

prophane nouelties of heresies Had they knowne of this infallible Iudge should wee not haue heard of him in this so proper a place and as it were in a cause belonging to his owne Court Nay doth not the writing it selfe of such bookes shew that this mattter was wholly vnknowne to Antiquitie For had the Church beene in possession of so easie and sure a Court to discouer and discard heresies they should not haue needed to taske themselues to finde out any other But the truth is infallibilitie is and euer hath beene accounted proper to Christs iudgement And as hath beene said all necessarie Truth to saluation hee hath deliuered vs in his Word That Word himselfe tells vs shall iudge at the last day Yea in all true decisions of Faith that Word euen now iudgeth Christ iudgeth the Apostle sits Iudge Christ speakes in the Apostle Thus Antiquitie Neither are they moued a whit with that obiection That the Scriptures are often the matter of Controuersies For in that case the remedie was easie which Saint Augustine shewes to haue recourse to the plaine places and manifest such as should need no interpreter for such there bee by which the other may bee cleered The same may be said if sometimes it be questioned which bee Scriptures which not I thinke it was neuer heard of in the Church that there was an externall infallible Iudge who could determine that question Arguments may be brought from the consent or dissent with other Scriptures from the attestation of Antiquitie and inherent signes of diuine authoritie or humane infirmitie but if the Auditor or Aduersarie yeeld not to these such parts of necessitie must needes be laid aside If all Scripture be denied which is as it were exceptio in iudicem ante litis contestationem Faith hath no place onely Reason remaines To which I thinke it will scarce seeme reasonable if you should say though all men are liers yet this Iudge is infallible and to him thou oughtest in conscience to obey and yeeld thy vnderstanding in all his det●rminations for hee cannot erre No not if all men in the world should say it Vnlesse you first set downe there is a God and stablish the authoritie of the bookes of holy Scripture as his voyce and thence shew if you can the warrant of this priuiledge Where you offi●me the Scriptures to be the law and the rule but alone of themselues cannot bee Iudges if you meane without being produced applied and heard yee say truth Yet Nicodemus spake not a●isse when hee demanded Doth our law iudge any man vnlesse it heare him first hee meant the same which Saint Paul when hee said of the high Priest thou sittest to iudge me according to the law and so doe we when wee say the same Neither doe wee send you to Angels or God himselfe immediately but speaking by his spirit in the Scriptures and as I haue right now said alledged and by discourse applied to the matters in question As for Princes since it pleased you to make an excursion to them if wee should make them infallible Iudge or giue them authoritie to decree in religion as they list as Gardiner did to King Henry the eight it might well bee condemned for monstrous as it was by Caluin As for the purpose Licere Regi interdicere populo vsum calicis in Coena Quarè Potestas 〈◊〉 summa est penes Regem quoth Gardiner This was to make the King as absolute a Tyrant in the Church as the Pope claimed to bee But that Princes which obey the truth haue commandement from God to command good things and forbid euill not onely in matters pertaining to humane societie but also the religion of God this is no new strange doctrine but Calums and ours and S. Augustines is so many words And this is all the Head-ship of the Church wee giue to Kings Whereof a Queene is as well capable as a King since it is an Act of authoritie not Ecclesiasticall Ministery proceeding from eminencie of power not of knowledge or holinesse Wherein not onely a learned King as ours is but a good old woman as Queene Elizabeth besides her Princely dignitie was may excell as your selues confesse your infallible Iudge himselfe But in power hee saith hee is aboue all which not to examine for the present in this power Princes are aboue all their subiects I trow and Saint Augustine saith plainly to command and forbid euen in the religion of God still according to Gods Word which is the touchstone of good and euill Neither was King Henry the eight the first Prince that exercised this power witnesse Dauid and Salomon and the rest of the Kings of Iudah before Christ And since that Kings were Christians the affaires of the Church haue depended vpon them and the greatest Synodes haue beene by their Decree as Socrates expresly saith Nor did King Henry claime any new thing in this Land but restored to the Crowne the ancient right thereof which sundry his predecessors had exercised as our Historians and Lawyers with one consent affirme The rest of your induction of Archbishops Bishops and whole Clergie in their Conuocation house and a Councell of all Lutherans Caluinists Protestants c. is but a needlesse pompe of words striuing to win by a forme of discourse that which gladly shall bee yeelded at the first demand They might all erre if they were as many as the sand on the sea shoare if they did not rightly apply the rule of holy Scriptures by which as you acknowledge the externall Iudge which you seeke must proceed As to your demand therefore how you should be sure when and wherein they did and did not erre where you should haue fixed your foot to forbeare to skirmish with your confirmation That though à posse ad esse non valet semper consequentia yet aliquando valet frustra dicitur potentia quae nunquam dueitur in actum To the former whereof I might tell you that without question nunquam valet and to the second that I can verie well allow that errandi potentia among Protestants be euer frustra This I say freely that if you come with this resolution to learne nothing by discourse or euidence of Scripture but only by the meere pronouncing of a humane externall Iudges mouth to whom you would yeeld your vnderstanding in all his determinations if as the Iesuites teach their Schollers you will wholly deny your owne iudgement and resolue that if this Iudge shall say that is blacke which appeares to your eyes white you will say it is blacke too you haue posed all the Protestants they cannot tell how to teach you infallibly Withall I must tell you thus much that this preparation of minde in a Scholler as you are in a Minister yea in a Christian that had but learned his Creed much more that had from a childe knowne the holy Scriptures that are able to make vs wise to saluation

die neuer so wickedly shall be saued and punished with a long but not eternall fire he thinkes them to be deceiued out of a certaine humane pit● for this opinion is flatly contrarie to other Sc●rptures II. He interprets the place of Saint Paul touching the trying of euery mans worke by fire of the fire of tribulation through which as well he that builds gold and siluer that is mindes the things of God as he that builds hay and stubble that is too much mindes the things of this life must passe III. He saith that it is not incredible that some such thing is done after this life also and whether it be so or not may be enquired of IIII. But whether it be found or no that some faithfull people according as they haue more or lesse loued these perishing things are later or sooner saued yet not such as of whom it is said that they shall not possesse the Kingdome of God vnlesse repenting as they ought they obtaine forgiuenesse as for the purpose be fruitfull in almes which yet will not serue to purchase a licence to commit sinne V. That the daily and lighter sinnes without which we are neuer in this life are blotted out by the Lords Prayer And so the greater also if a man leaue them and forgiue others his enemies which is a worthy kinde of almes but the best of all is a sinners amending of his life Loe how plainly Saint Augustine auo●cheth Purgatorie Of which he doubts whether any such thing can be found or no. Expounds that Scripture that seemes most strong for it all otherwise and so as it cannot agree thereunto If it be found is sure it will not serue for greater sinnes And for lesser defects yea the greatest shewes another a surer remedy which intruth makes Purgatory superfluous In this doctrine Danaeus is so farre from controuling Saint Augustine that he applauds him and saith that declaring his owne opinion of Purgatorie he pronounceth plainely that the whole defining of this matter is vncertaine doubtfull and rash which since that Augustine wrote being now an old man certainely it cannot be doubted but that hee did altogether reiect Purgatorie yea and he shewes this fire it selfe to be vnprofitable Thus Danaeus there But the censure that was in your minde I beleeue is that vpon another passage of Saint Augustine in the same Booke where hee treates whether the soules of the dead are eased by the pietie of their friends that are liuing And thus he determines it That when the Sacrifices either of the Altar or of whatsoeuer almes are offered for all such as are deceased after Baptisme for such as are very good folke they are thankesgiuings for such as are not very euill they are propitiations for those that are very euill though they be no helpes to the dead yet they are consolations such as they be to the liuing And to such as they are profitable vnto it is either that they may haue full remission or that their very damnation may be more tollerable Vpon this Chapter thus saith Dan●us Hoc totum caput continet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Augustini and after hee addes Itaque hic foenum stipulam aedificat vir pius magnus But you yee say had rather follow Saint Augustines opinion then his censure Perhaps as one saith rather erre with Plato then hold the truth with others If that be your resolution what should we vse any more words Beleeue then if you please that the commemoration of Christs sacrifice in the Lords Supper or the oblations of the faithfull are to be made for all that decease after Baptisme in the attempting of whatsoeuer sinne they die yea suppose in finall impenitence of any deadly crime That such as be damned may thereby haue their damnation made more tollerable Beleeue that without any improprietie of speech the same forme of words may be a thanksgiuing for one and an appeasing of Gods wrath for another Beleeue also if you can beleeue what you will that Saint Tecla deliuered the soule of Falconilla out of hell and Saint Gregorie the soule of Traian and that as may seeme saying Masse for him sith he was forbidden thence forth to offer any hoste for any wicked man Bele●●e that Macarius continually praying for the dead and very desirous to know whether his prayers did them any good had answere by miracle from the scull of a dead man an Idolater that by chance was tumbled in the way O Macarius when tho● offerest prayer's for the dead we feele some ease for the time Beleeue that on Easter euen all the damned spirits in hell keep holy day and are free from their torments Saint Augustine such is his modestie will giue you leaue to beleeue 〈◊〉 as well as Purgatorie if you please as hee is not vnwilling to giue as large scope to other mens opinions as may be so they reuerse not the plaine and certaine grounds of holy Scripture In all these you may if you please follow authors also as Saint Damasce●● Paladius Prudentius Sigebert and others But giue the same libertie to others that yee take Compell no man to follow your opinion if he had rather follow Danaeus reasons For my selfe I would sooner with Saint Augustine himselfe whose words touching Saint Cyprian Danaeus here borrowed confesse this to be 〈…〉 coopertum 〈…〉 then be bound to iustif●e his conceit touching the commemoration of the dead in the Lords Supper And as hee saith of Saint Cyprian so would I adde Ego h●ius libri authoritate non teneor 〈…〉 Augustini non vt Canonicas habeo sed eas ex Canonic●s considero quod in ijs 〈◊〉 scriptur 〈…〉 cum 〈…〉 quod non congruit cum pace eius resp●● Which words I doe the rather set downe that they may be Luthers iustification also against F. Parsons who thinkes he hath laid sore to his charge when hee cites very solemnely his Epistle ad Equitem Germ. Anno Domini 1521. where he saith he was tyed by the authority of no Father though neuer so holy if hee were not approued by the iudgement of holy Scripture Surely this is not to denie and contemne as he cals it or as you to controll the Fathers to account them subiect to humane infirmities which themselues acknowledge But the contrary is to boast against the truth to seeke to fore iudge it with their mistakings which needes not so much as require their testimonies I will forbeare to multiply words about that whether the testimonies of Antiquitie which fauour the Protestants be many or few whether they doe indeede so or onely seeme prima facie whether they be wrested or to the purpose whether all this may not by iust or reason be affirmed of the passages cited by 〈◊〉 Romanists out of Antiquitie setting aside matters of ceremony and gouernment which your selfe confesse by and by may be diuers without empeaching vnitie in Faith and opinions euer to be subiected to the triall of