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A65868 The he-goats horn broken, or, Innocency elevated against insolency & impudent falshood in answer to two books against the people of God called Quakers : the one intituled, A fuller discovery, which is stuffed with such a multitude of lyes, slanders, and perverting the truth, as the like hath not been extant : the authors of which are John Horn, Thomas Moore Senior, and Thomas Moore Junior : and the other book is falsely called truth's triumph by John Horn : which are answered for the information of the people, and the clearing of the servants of God, and the way of truth to the simple hearted from the lyes, delusions and fallacies that have proceeded from the spirit of Antichrist and blasphemy, in these men aforesaid, who profess themselves ministers of Christ but are proved ministers of Satan and unrighteousness / by a witness of Christ and his work against all the works of darkness, G.W. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723. 1660 (1660) Wing W1933; ESTC R38606 53,172 64

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again ascended are no local places but some Conditions or Conceits in men 5. That neither the Souls nor Bodies of the Wicked shall rise again to Judgment This with several other Lies J. Horne and Thomas Moor charge us called Quakers with maintaining or asserting insome Queries I sent to them when as I only queried them to try their belief in these things without asserting them so what unreasonable men these are is easie to see who distinguish not between Questions and Assertions who proceed in their lies thus 6. That we agree with Himneus and Philetus that said the Resurrection is already past 7. That Christ came not to Redeem men from out of the natural bodily Death 8. That such Faith as that of the Elect mentioned Rom. 8. 33 34 35. is by our Doctrines to be rooted up 9. That by our Doctrine Christ is not the Author and procurer of all good to men both natural and spiritual 10. That we deny Justification by a Righteousness imputed to us 11. That to endeavour to detect and make manifest the delusions of any to preserve people from them is a being impatient under and raging against Gods Judgments which they falsely charge us called Quakers with maintaining And with maintaining 12. That these Teachers whose Hearers do sleight and neglect the Truth Preached by them and remain sloathful formal Covetous are false Prophets whenas the words were not so spoken by us but we spoke rather in particular against them and such as being false Prophets and Hypocrites who being neglecters of Christ and abusers of the Truth themselves as they have confessed they have not profited the People Again these abusers of the Truth viz. 13. J. Horne and T. Moor charge us falsely with plainly denying Judgment after the natural Death and with denying and jearing at Christ that Holy and Innocent man that was born of the Virgin Mary as having the form and body of a man 14. That we set up another thing in his stead viz. an imaginary seed within every man 15. That we plead for a Christ without any body of man distinct from others or out of them but a certain seed with an imaginary flesh and blood dying and bearing sin in every man having no other body but what is in some men dying yea in every man in its time 16. That our Christ hath been alwayes dying and rising in men from the beginning of the World and so will be to the end 17. That we make nothing of the coming again of Christ but scoffs at him that dyed 1600. years ago 18. That we account Christ's Death and Resurrection but a shaddow 19. That the seed which we speak of in men is but a conceited Spirit that is within them with a conceited flesh and blood in them too of which they say such an Idol was scarce ever in any Generation of men set up before Wherein J. Horne and these two Moors have both lyed shamefully and blasphemed for the seed which we spake of is Christ whom the Apostles Preached which the promise was to in them and this is not an Idol as they heve blasphemed nor his flesh and blood a conceited and an imagined thing but our meat and drink without the eating and drinking of which a man hath no life in him 20. Again J. H. and T. M. falsely accuse us with maintaining that our Christ in all the reality of his body with his flesh and blood is wholy within us sensibly bearing our sins though not willingly 21. That the coming of Christ to raise the dead bodies of all that sleep in Jesus c. and the Resurrection of the dead and Judgment afterdeath is by us altogether denyed 22. That whatsoever is said of the true Christ or of his Church in the Scripture we apply to a false Christ and to our selves 23. That we come in our own Name and Authority boasting of our selves and witnessing to and of our selves and obtruding things upon men not by and in the Light and evidence of the Spirit 24. That we say our sayings are better than the sayings of the holy Spirit in the Scriptures 25. That George Fox said in Bury at Goal of one Disbrough Brother-in-law to Joseph Hagger being a Tradesman in London that he was Priest and Hireling and took Tyths which with the rest is an odious lie and slander and denyed by George Fox as also are these viz. 26. That we count our selves Lords and disdain to have any over us and revile and likely would destroy if in our power at our pleasure 27. And that our principle leads to it 28. That I wilfully played the Jesuite or Sophister to delude the ignorant with seeming like tearms 29. That Christopher Wade clearly proved a whole dozen of notorious lies against George Fox 30. And that in my Answer I give the goe-by most egregiously and in none of them reproves C. Wade Which also are filthy lies against both G. F. and me as may be seen in my Book intituled Truth defending the Quakers so that these things here mentioned against us called Quakers which John Horn and T. Moor have accused us with which are inserted in their Epistle I return back upon them as wicked lies and slanders proceeding from the envious Spirit of the wicked one in them and yet they are but a few in comparison of many more which they have uttered against us which we are clear of and more of their lies and slanders in their Book are as followeth viz. 31. That some of us say we are Christ 32. That we cast mists and cloudes in our expressions 33. That we turne Scripture sayings into fables perverting the whole Scripture to a corrupt sense 34. That by dead in Christ we mean but the spiritually dead in some some fancyed death sleeping in him the Trumpet and shout and Resurrection all Allegorical 35. 36. That we are denyers of the Resurrection Preached by the Apostles And that all men may see us to be so 37. That we count the Preaching of the Cross foolishness and turn it into a Fable or Allegory 38. That we confess not Christ come in the flesh but make him a figure of a spiritual wickedness or mysterious deceit that works in them that perish 39. 40. That we turn the words of Truth into a lie Not only neglecting but wholly trampleing the true Christ under our feet 41. That we deny the God above In these slanders also with many others against us have they shewed themselves to be frequent and common lyers all which we return back upon them as things never owned by us which if they further assay to make them good we shall know further how to make our defence that our innocency may be clear from them as we are clear in the sight of God But in these they have but done by our words as they use to do by the Scriptures of Truth perverted them and raised lies from them which is the manner of their Preaching And
Righteousness nor have any of his Righteousness in them And this is to make God account sinful men Righteous and so not to padiffere utnce between the holy and prophane which was the false Prophets practise as it is yours also who have also said that maintaining a justification by a Righteousness within is a meer Unrighteousness wherein you do no less than charg the Apostle with maintaining a meer unrighteousness for he tould them of the Righteousness of the Law being fulfilled in them who walked not after the flesh but after the spirit Rom. 8. 4. And the Saints were justified by the Spirit of God in them and had the Righteousness of faith in them so were not justified in sin but from it Acts 13 39. 1 Cor. 6. 11. Phil. 3. 9. but their state are you far from who have been pleading for sin which is your natural heritage which makes you so unwilling to part from it and you would fain be accounted righteous in Christ when you are unrighteous and deceitful being ignorant of the righteousness of God and not having it in you and so would be counted what you are not and therein are Hypocrites deceiving your selves and others And where we asked you what is the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man which cometh into the World which T. Meer said is both natural and spiritual To this you say we vary T. M's saying as you falsely say divers times we did our own Question about the Light at that meeting for you say his Answer was to our Question as thus stated what is the Light which Christ giveth And his Answer to this was that he is the author and giver of both 〈…〉 Light Reply In this have you spoken falsely on both hands for we did not then ask what is the Light which Christ giveth but whetter the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man that comheh into the World be natural or spiritual and T. M. said it is both natural and spiritual as also you have lyed in saying that we vary T. M's saying for he and you have confessed in P. 61. That the Light wherewith Christ Lighteth every man is both natural and spiritual and yet one Light that is both natural Spiritual you could not shew thus are you taken in your self contradictions and deceit And where you say that Christ is the author and giver of all that is truly called Light and good to men this is not to my Question for it was touching the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man and not touching all good that he is the author and giver of for there are many good things that Christ is the author of that are not the Light wherewith he in lighteneth every man so that you discover your weakness about the Light And where you ask where we read that the Gospel is Preached in every Creature Answ. See Col. 1. 23. in the Greek its {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} in every Creature And where you say you have answered in simplicity and p●ainnese and not with hidden things of dishonesty but by a plain manifestation of the Truth in the words of Truth have declared your minds that others when they read may understand ●our knowledge in the mysteries of Christ Herein your boasting Spirits are seen you would make men believe as if what you have written were infallible by a plain ma●ifestation of truth but presently after you say if in any thing they find you speak not according to the word let them refuseit and shew you in love by evidence of Scripture your mistake and you shall thankfully accept it you say To which I say what confusion deceit and doubting is this you are found in And what untempered stuff is this It appears by this you are not assured that your work is all in the Truth for all your boasting of your answering by a plain manifestation of Truth and of your knowledge in the mysteries of Christ and now both your lies slanders and mistakes in many things are made manifest and you may see them if you be not still wilfully hardened and many more aspersions and slanders besides those I have mentioned have you vomited out in your rage and envy against us in these your answers which will be a heavy burthen upon you when you come to be silent in darkness as the wicked shall and to reap the fruit of your doings which will be terrible to you one day And where you desire the Reader if ever he see any Reply to this of yours he would distinctly observe if we pervert not or alter your sayings by taking them in pieces and changing expressions to mar the sense c. and in observance of this caution you say you doubt not but the Reader will be satisfied even from our selves concerning our Antichristian Spirit without your adding any more by way of return to ours which though you will not bind your selves from yet you do not resolve to do though we should give you occasion by such sorry shifts and pretended Answers as hitherto we have returned you say Reply As for your suspecting us to mar the sense of your sayings by perverting them and to lie at the catch to get some matters to snarle about as you say these are your own practises and it s your own evil thoughts against us wherein you muse of us as you use your selves and that arises from the Antichristian spirit that is in you and not in us and you are the snarlers as your many lies and frequent perverting our words doth plainly shew and not we what are you afraid to fall into your own pit 2. And as for your not resolving to add any more by way of return to ours I say to what end should you add any more in return to ours for you thereby would but add more to your former wickedness and slanders and blasphemy against the spirit of the Lord which is in us which sees over your deceits and this would but ad more to your shame for your lying Books many are grown weary of them who before you vomited out your malice thus against us had a better esteem of you than now they have as also you have falsely said that we have been already proved deceivers and Antichrists which if it were so then away with your work there is no more need of it against us but your malignity and falseness herein is largly made manifest to many and you had better never have been born than have vented such wickedness perversness out of your mouths if you repent not A Brief Reply to John Horne's Book Called Truth's Triumph over Deceit c. Wherein his Deceit Insolency and vain boasting and his Triumphing in his wickedness and Lyes is plainly manifested and here reproved and the Truth Vindicated I See that the Diviners and Deceivers strive against the Truth of our God and the more their madness and folly and falshood Appears as it is evidently fulfilled
transgressions are multiplyed before thee c. Would we not have said oh thou Hypocrite hast thou been crying out against us as blind and Brutish and doest thou grope like a blind man you say Answ. You have herein supposed falsely for we should not have had the same ground to call David and Isaiah Hypocrites that we have to call you so for you never came to that Innocency and Righteousness they came to after they had confessed their Sins for they suffered the Terrours of the Lord for them and Iniquity was Davids Burthen In so much that he was bowed down greatly and went mourning all the day long and so he and the Prophets did not onely Confesse their Sins but also forsook them and by the Spirit of Judgement and burning they were purged from their Iniquities But you still continue in your Iniquities and abusing Gods Truth and never suffered the Terrours of the Lord nor sorrowed as David did nor ever became such Righteous men as David was For he was not a contender for Sin not in the hireling Priests steps as you are And as for Isaiahs saying we grope for the Wall like the blinde we grope as If we had no eyes c. This Relates more to the unrighteous Rulers and Jews as an effect of their Iniquities than it doth to any Guilt the Prophet had for he was then a Seer and bad eyes that saw the Light and the straight path for he said of the Jews that their hands were defiled with Blood their Feet ran to Evil the way of Peace they knew not and there was no Judgement in their Goings Therefore said he is Judgement far from us neither doth Justice overtake us we wait for Light but behold obscurity for Brightness but we walk in darkness we grope for the Wall like the blinde See Isai. 59. 2. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. But mark how it was the Prophets Burthen that the peoples Iniquity was thus great for he saith we roar all like bears and mourn sore like Doves we look for Judgement but there is none for Salvation but it is far off from us vers. 11. but it does not appear that ever John Horn or either old Tho. Moore or the younger have ever thus Roared and mourned because of Iniquity as the Prophet Isaiah did for if they did they would not plead for it as they do nor are they come into his Innocency who are Guilty of Sin with the Nation and have a share in the Nations pollutions as they confesse and yet continue in their Iniquity of lying and abusing the Truth which the Prophets and holy men of God did not so that they cannot hide themselves and their Guilt and Deceit though they have taken it upon them to Reprove the Teachers and People of the Nation Since that John Horn and Tho. Moore have confessed us called Quakers a heavy judgement of God which he hath ordered to punish them for their neglect of Christ and their abuse of his Truth and we asked them why they Rage so against Gods Judgement Seeing they have sinned so against him To this they say were not the false Prophets and Deceivers alwayes a Judgement And did not the Prophets and Apostles alwayes Reprove them and warn People of them Answ. Here again their folly appears for neither have they proved us false Prophets and Deceivers as they were the True Prophets and Apostles Reproved nor yet that they themselves are as the true Prophets and Ministers were who owned Gods Judgements in their place and did not abuse the Truth as they do but Mark where does the Scripture ever say that false Prophets and Deceivers were ordered of God as a heavy Judgement to punish his true Prophets for their Neglect of Christ and abuse of his Truth as these mens words Imply seeing they count themselves true Ministers us Deceivers ordered of God as a heavy Judgement to punish them for their abuse of the Truth Again their counting us a Judgement as the Deceivers and false Prophets were whom the true Prophets reproved belongs to themselves not to us for these Deceivers were such as sought for their Gain from their quarters and Preached for Hire and Rewards and stole the words from their Neighbours saying thus saith the Lord when God never spoke to them and strengthened the hands of Evil doers that they might not forsake their Sins and were in their Lyes and Lightness all which John Horn and Thomas Moore Especially the Elder are evidently Guilty for they have much contended for Sin declared their own Conceptions and Devinations and J. H. hath pleaded for their taking Tythes and Hire And further J. H. in his Book called Truth's Triumph hath gone about to clear himself like as they have done here before as where I counted it absurd for him to say that People ought to account the Quakers accursed whom they have said to be an heavy Judgement to them for then they must Count the Judgement of God accursed to this J. H. saith in pag 8. for doth not Judgement begin at the House of God 1 Pet. 4. 17. and doth he not ordain wicked men for Judgement such as the Caldeans and false Teachers Jude 4. and Satan too as to Job Answ. Here J. H. his deceit is seen plainly who would fain be accounted as a sufferer with Job and one in the House of the Lord but did God ever set Deceivers to be a heavy Judgement over his house to punish it for its abuse of the Truth as J. H. hath acknowledged we are to him and such as he is For the House of God is the Pillar and Ground of Truth and was that Judgement Deceivers which began at the House of God Surely J. H. hath under-vallued the House of God neither was Job such an abuser of the Truth nor a Lyar as J. H. is nor did he suffer as such a one when God tryed him for he was a Perfect and an upright Man and one that feared God and Eschewed evil such as J. H. is not to be sure so what was done to Job was to try him Neither can he prove us such as the Caldeans were Job 1. 17. nor are we a Judgement to Gods House but a refreshment and blessing to them that are in it And as for the false Teachers spoken of in Jude they were even such as J. H. is filthy Dreamers that spoke evil of the things they knew not as he doth and went in the way of Cain to Envy and after the Error of Balaam for Reward and spake great swelling words of vanity having mens persons in Admiration because of Advantage as J. H. hath And after that J. Horne hath been pleading for Tythes and Hire he and T. M. in Page 71. Lay down as their Principle That the Priests and Levites even when they were such as blind Watchmen and Ignorant prophane Persons the Lord faults the People for not bringing in and giving them that which he by his Law made
in person with them 1000. years there must be another Resurrection of the bodies of the wicked which they call the last and general Resurrection but in these things they would shew themselves wise above what is written but the Kingdome of Christ wherein he will Reign and Rule over the Nations is Spiritual and Spiritually discerned and known where the Power wherein the Kingdome stands is felt and not according to the carnal imaginations of hireling Priests Deceivers J. H. T. M. In P. 141. They say that Christ hath appointed together with the Preaching the Cross this outward Ordinance speaking of the blessing and breaking Bread and taking and blessing the Cup for the remembring and shewing forth the Lords Death till be come which implies that there is even in believers in their several ages till that his coming again natural d●●ness and proneness to forget it and therefore need of such mementoes c. and that he hath appointed such means to stir us up by putting us in remembranes often they say Reply Herein they undervalue the believers as if they were 〈◊〉 themselves having natural dulness and proneness to forget the Lords Death the before imagin that the belevers ●●ct have need of such outward ●●ings as bread and wine to stir them up by putting them in remembrance often whenas the true believers are come to the substance and to feed upon the flesh of Christ and feel his coming knowing that the bread which they break is the Communion of the body of Christ and the cup of blessing which they bless is the Communion of the blood of Christ which the outward bread and the cup was but a sign or a figure of and the end of the World they are come to see who are in the Communion of the body of Christ for in the World is the strife and the doting about these outward shaddows which are passed away where the glory of the Sun is broken forth and the mysteries of life revealed And what is it that puts you in remembrance to take bread and wine Will not the same stir you up to the remembrance of Christs death But you are so dull and prone to forget it that you must alwayes have need of such shaddows to put you in remembrance often sure if you were come to feel the power of Christs sufferings and were come to feed upon his flesh which giveth life unto the world and to drink his blood you would not be so forgetful of Christ as you are for can a living man who is sound forget his natural food And where you say that we render the Supper of the Lord as well as the passover a figure in this have you spoken falsely for we are come to the Supper of the Lord and to sup with Christ and he with us where the bread of God is received which is not a figure but the substance to which Supper you are not come who live in pride and vanity and pleading for sin as your natural heritage and with such Christ does not Sup nor feed among such a proud company as you are at your bread and wine which blindly you call his Supper when it hath not so much as a true form of the Supper of Christ in it when his Disciples eat with him in the night in which he was betrayed they eat the passeover according to the command Mat. 26. Luke 22. 8. So that his Supper was not without the Passeover which was a figure that Christ fulfilled Again J. H. and T. M. in P. 146. you charg us with corrupt imaginations and with signifying in our former Questions that the blood sufferings and death of Christ that is over and past as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining thereof and was so finished in that body is not the bread of life or the drink indeed and the purger of the conscience but something else figured by that which is now in a present and sensible being nigh to men and in them Reply In which you shew your corruptness and perverting the Truth in that you are striving against what we said of the flesh and blood of Christ viz. That his flesh and blood is so nigh to every believer that his flesh is his meat and his blood is his drink indeed and this flesh and blood continues and is felt in the true believer whereby he hath life in him and his conscience purged when the sufferings and death of Christ as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining thereof is over and past as you confess But alas you are ignorant of this and cannot tell where the blood of Christ is as to the existence of it and yet you have called it the foundation of your faith and Gods own blood P. 89. Acts 20. 28. and yet by your words God is without his own blood in Heaven for you have denyed it to be in Christs body in Heaven so you cavel at us for witnessing the life and substance of that which you are both ignorant of and are confounded about Where we asked J. H. and T. M. What is their ground for sprinkling the Children of them they count believers About this they shuffle and dare not answer directly for fear it appears of displeasing their other Brethren the Priests that differ from them in this and say they reject our Question but yet they say That in Baptizing Repentance and remission of sins is Preached and witnessed as in his name for them and through it unto them as appears by comparing Mat. 28. 19. with Luke 24. 47 48. and Acts 13. To which I say in this have you wrested these Scriptures for they will not serve your ends as you would have them Repentance and remission of sins was not Preached by Christs Ministers to infants through Sprinckling them what do you repent for them Or promise that they shall repent And are you sure that they will prove believers that sprinckle them as the seed of believers in your account and how do you know that other Peoples Children whom you have refused to sprinckle are not as well the seed of believers as those whom you sprinckle and yet for that Popish practise you have no rule in the Scriptures of truth You say in P. 155. That we must needs reject and deride imputed Righteousness viz. mens being the Righteousness of God in him in an answerable sense as he was made sin for us Reply Herein you bely us for we neither reject nor deride the imputed Righteousness we being in the faith wherein it is revealed in us and imputed to us to our sanctification whereby we are become the Righteousness of God in Christ 2. Christ was made sin for us who knew no sin 2 Cor. 5. 21. neither was there any sin in him so that if mens being the righteousness of God in him be in an answerable sense as Christ was made sin as you imagin say then God must account them his Righteousness when they know none of his