they fell on sleepe or rose vp and tooke it But to let this goe I wonder you or any other should be so fond to thinke that the blessed Virgin enioying the true light is honoured with lights of mans making she requireth no such honour The Angell bad Iohn worship God and our Sauiour sayth not that he is worshipped with setting vp of Candles but in spirit and trueth that is with a true Spirituall worship In a word we are not bid to make lights for God or the Virgin but while we haue light to beleeue in the light But I pray you tell me do you know how this carrying of Candles on that day came vp first Ro. No not I it may be my Cozen Tractable doth If you doe Couzen I pray let vs heare it Trac I am wearie now with sitting here so long If this company will come againe to morrow you shall heare what I haue read of it Guid. If it please you Madam let vs returne to morrow Mad. If it please God I will not so much to heare this as some other talke that you may fall into Mad. Howe where be you Rom. Who is there Mad. Here is a Fryer Rom. You are welcome Mad. Why because I come in the name of a Fryer I thinke the answere here is a Fryer so much vsed of those that knock at mens dores did rise of this that of all other men Fryers were most welcome in times past Guid. I thinke they were as welcome then as those which call themselues Iesuits haue of late been welcom to Recusants but I see no reason why they should be so welcome now seeing it is very likely they haue had a strong hand in this monstrous intended murder whereby some of their Schollers are fallen into the pit they made for others Their plot was by powder and powder to put them in minde of their sinne and to forewarne them of their fall as it is said scarred some of them in drying of it And as Senacherib was slaine by his owne sonnes so these by their owne plots wrought their owne woe When there is some speciall matter to bee noted the holy Ghost to the end of certaine verses addeth this word Selah the which word some Hebrew readers say is as much as O rem notatu dignam eleuetur hic vox O matter worthy to bee noted let the voyce be lifted vp here This word is vsed thrise in the 140 Psalm They haue sharpened their tongues like a Serpent Adders poyson is vnder their lippes Selah The proud haue laid a snare for mee and spred a not with cords in my path way and set grins for me Selah Let not the wicked haue his desire ô Lord performe not his wicked thought least hee be proud Selah Blessed bee God which hath deliuered our King and many others out of cruell Faux his bloudy iaw not suffering him to performe that wicked thought but marred all his mischeuous matches Mad. Amen Amen Truly mistresse Romana me thinkes if there were nothing else to draw you from your Popish superstition that same inherent cruelty which is in those that fauour it against such as will not play with puppets as they themselues do might driue you out of that bloudy Babylon and cause you to ioyne with such as embrace the glorious Gospell of Iesus Christ sincerely Tract You would haue my cozen and me to go from the Catholicks Was not S. Austin a Catholicke and were not all those against whom he wrote Heretickes Guid. What if it were so can you proue that we hold any opinions that S. Austin sodainly confuted by the Scriptures do you not know that the summe of the auncient Catholicke faith so much as is needfull to saluation is contained in that Creed Quicunque vult c. Whosoeuer will bee saued c. and that this Creed is read oft-times in our parish Churches yearely Rom. Come cozen come let vs sit down I pray you and tell vs how Candlemasse day came vp for that was your promise yesternight Tract Iacobus Passanantius in his additions to the Commentaries of Thomas Valois and Nicholas Treuet on the sixth booke of S Austin de Ciuitate Dei cap. 7. Guid. Stay a little Tell mee the first word and the last of that Chapter that I may know whether you haue read it your selfe or had it at the second hand Tract Doth euery one that readeth a Chapter remember at all times the first and last word of it I promise you I doe not yet I remember the first word of that Chapter is Reuocatur and the last Obscoenitas Rom. On Cozen this is but to trouble your tale This Iacobus sheweth out of Ouid that after Pluto the God of Hell beeing wounded with that dart which had the golden point had by violence taken away Proserpina the daughter of the Goddesse Ceres and placing her with him in his blacke Chariot had brought her to Hell and made her Queene of the same Her mother Ceres who could not stay Pluto with her out-cryes and piteous moane sought her Daughter euery where day and night with lights and fire-brandes which shee had in Mount Etna By occasion of this Fable faith he there sprang vp superstition in Rome For the women there representing this taking away of Proserpina by force and Ceres seeking her with lights in the Kalends of February which moneth was said to bee consecrated to the God of Hell Pluto which by another name was called Februus from whom the moneth was called February went about with lights ouer Hilles and Vallyes with Ceres seeking Proserpina Now to take away this superstition obserued in the Honour of the Queene of Hell the Church appoynted that in honour of the Queene of Heauen the second day of February to wit on the feast of the Purification the Faithfull people should carry in their handes lighted Candles And hence it is saith hee that that day is called Candelaria We call it Candlemas Guid. And so one superstition gaue place to another Cath. I perceiue this custome or tradition or whatsoeuer you call it is nobly descended and of a very auncient House Her Grand-mother was the Lady Fable her mother was a great Lady in Rome called Madame Superstition who was very fruitfull She hath brought forth many Sonnes and many Daughters many Nephews and many Neeces which yeerely after sheep-shearing giue her many golden fleeces Rom. Alacke for you are you come in with your néeces and fléeces all is but fables with you Tract I thinke in a while they will say as one sayd O quantum nobis profuit illa Fabula dech See the defence of the Apol pag. 273. printed 1570 Guid. Stay betimes Maister Tractable least you marre all for that is no speech of ours but a lesson that one of your late Popes as it is reported taught his Cardinalls Tract Whosoeuer taught it it was a wicked lesson for it was a naughty speech and sauoured of impietie Guid. You cannot for shame
Christmas and at our Wakes If that which Doctor Fulke Bishoppe Iuel Maister Nowell Doctor Reynolds and others haue written at large of the Popes either touching their supremacie their erring or their liues will not satisfie your Couzen and you I know not what to say to you yet because you refuse not to conferre with me I will tell you my mind plainely and that in fewe words First for Christs Vicar generall I know none worthie to be so called as the Holy Ghost whom Saint Austin calleth the Porter yea I cannot see how it can belong to any besides I prooue it thus He whome the Sonne Christ promised to send from his Father Nondedignater spirit as sanctus esse osâ—oarius in Io tract 4. not only to Peter but to the rest to comfort them and to abide with them for euer is only Christs Vicar generall Io. 14.16 But this was the Holy Ghost only 1. Argument Therefore he only is that Vicar For to be thus sent doth nothing diminish his deitie He which is the Spirit of trueth whom the world receiueth not 2 Argu. though he dwelleth with the faithfull is alone worthie to be called Vicar to him which is the trueth But such a one is the Holy Ghost 3. Argu. Ergo he whome the Father sent in Christs name to teach all thinges and to bring all thinges to remembrance that Christ told is Chrsts Vicar generall but such a one is the holy Ghost alone therefore he only is Christ his vniuersall Vicar Tell vs plainly Maister Tractable can you or any man apply these things to any Pope or to Peter himselfe if any of you would say yes then it should follow that Peter should not néed to haue béene comforted and confirmed himselfe ere hee went about to confirme others Tract But is it not some supremacy to be a strengthner of others after he himselfe was confirmed Guid. It is a good worke and a good fruit of repentance when a man hath shewed his weaknesse in denying his maister and that with cursing and swearing after his conuersion to exhort them to take héed they confesse Christ constantly lest with him they féele that which made him wéep bitterly This Apostle was forward in answering when our Sauiour asked any question forward in louing and no doubt forward in feeding Christs shéepe where he came as the rest did where they came But that hee had more authority to censure the other two Pillers Iames and Iohn then they him I cannot finde in the Holy Scriptures I bring not this as misliking degrées in gouernment thought fit for the better preseruing of the safety and peace of any land but as wishing you to remember to shew that Peter called himselfe and his fellowes witnesses of the resurrection of Christ Act 10 39.4â— but no Pastor of Pastors or head of the vniuersall Church Tract Christ bade him feede his sheepe Ergo that belongeth to him and his successors more then to others Guid. Christ bad Peter to pay that for tribute for them two as he should find in the Fish he said not so to the rest ergo if your argument halt not Christ and Peter with his successors to auoyd offences are more bound to pay tribute to Caesar then any others I thinke you will not grant this willingly Our Sauiour knowing that Peter had denyed him thrise Aug. in Io tract 1 2 3 though he promised to sticke to him though all the rest should forsake him bad him if hee loued him more then the rest did to shew it by his diligence in feeding his sheepe and his Lambes yet ye know these words Mat. 28.16 19 Mat. 27.5 Acts 1.11.22.26 Goe and teach all Nations were spoken to ten others besides Peter I say ten others because at that time there were but eleuen for Iudas had hanged himselfe before and Matthias was not chosen to bee a witnesse of the Resurrection of Christ with the rest till after Christ was taken vp from his Disciples into Heauen Tract Well let vs leaue this and returne from whence we digressed If you will haue the holy Ghost the Guide and Teacher of the whole Church militant for of that we spake where shall we finde the holy Ghost which is inuisible guiding and teaching that we might hearken vnto him Guid. In the holy Scriptures He shall testifie of me you shall beare witnesse also Io. 15.26.27 which are in the mind in the mouth of euery godly faithfull sound discréete zealous teacher that teacheth according to the same scriptures not séeking their owne glory but the glory of God and the edifying of his people S. Peter saith speaking of prophesie in the Scripture 2 Eph. 2. Peâ— 1.20.21 See the 2. of Tim. 3.16 that holy men of God spake as they were moued by the holy Ghost The Apostle to the Hebrews citing these words of the 95. Psalme To day if you will heare his voyce saith the holy Ghost spake them S. Peter saith Heb 3.7 2. Pet. 3 16. 1. Cor. 7.40 Ioh. 14 17. that S. Paul wrote according to the wisedome giuen vnto him S. Paul himselfe saith I thinke that I haue also the Spirit of God Our Sauiour told his Disciples that the Spirit of truth should dwell with theÌ„ be in them Wicked men by the help of some Spirituall gifts prophesie 1 Cor 6.19 oâ— and yet profit no more themselues then the bell that calleth others to hearing heareth nothing it selfe But if the body of each faithfull Christian bee the Temple of the Holy Ghost which they haue of God then no doubt he is also in that teacher which hath a care of these things following First not only to leade into some truth but into all truth I meane that is reuealed in the word S Paul saith Act. 20. that he kept nothing back For in fit time place euery thing reuealed in the holy scripture as occasioÌ„ serueth is to be laid open in a discréet maner Secondly as the holy Ghost extolleth not the wisdome power and merits of man but glorifieth Christ so doth euery good teacher according to that is measured vnto him endeuour to glorify the son of God Ioh. 16.13.14 yea the blessed Trinity whose loue is made manifest in Christ not only by his doctrine but also by his déeds Thirdly as the holy Ghost sheweth things to come so doth the true teacher tell what the holy Ghost saith shal be in the later daies 2. Thes 2 for this is part of the truth as to tell that the man of sin shall be disclosed 1. Tim. 4. Some shall speake lies through hypocrisie 2 Tim. 3. forbidding to marry Some creeping into houses shall leade captiue simple women â—ou 18.21 The great Cittie Babylon shall bee Cast downe Reu. 21 2. The new Ierusalem shal be prepared as a Bride for her husband c. These and the like things such as bee guided by
those Posts in the the land of Ephraim Manasseth and Zabulom Salt Some laughed them to scorne and mocked them and some submitted themselues and came to Ierusalem Chap. And what did they of Iudea Salt The hand of God was in Iudah so that he gaue them one heart to do the commandement of the King and of the Ruler according to the word of the Lord and when it shall please the same God that gaue them one heart to giue vs in this land one heart also wee shall doe the Commandement of our King and Rulers according to the word of the Lord for if wee had all that heart if there were vnity then as they in Iudea came into the house of the Lord to serue him and to kéepe the Passouer vnto him so should all wee in this land go to the Church serue God and in communicating shew forth the death of our Sauiour with thankes-giuing vntill hee come 1. Cor. 11.26 Wee should not be some in the Church and some in the chamber Some doing that which Christ commanded to bee done in remembrance of him some knéeling before some worke of Mans hand Luke 22 1◠Some hearkening to the preaching of Christ crucified some contenting themselues with hearing a Masse and looking on a Crucifixe Some through faith féeding in Christ which is aboue sitting as Paul saith at the right hand of God Col. 3.1 Heb. 1.3.8 Ca. 8.5.1 which to the Hebrues is called the right hand of Maiesty in the highest places and other some after certaine words spoken and grossely vnderstood séeking for him in forme of bread as if our Sauiour when hee said This is my body had either two bodies or else one and the same body at one and the same time seene and heard at the Table and hid and silent in the bread Chap. I wonder that they holding a bodily presence will themselues bee bodily absent Salt They absent themselues from our Church not only in body but also in Spirit they haue no minde to vs nor to our congregations Chap. It may be they thinke there be as many things that need clensing as needed clensing in Ierusalem when Hezechiah began to reigne at which time as I haue heard there were many things amisse Salt Indéed that godly King found high places images and groues all which hee tooke away and when hee had brought the Priests and Leuites into the east stréet hee said vnto them Heare me you Leuits sanctifie your selues 2 King 18 4 3. Cro. 29.5 and sanctifie the house of the Lord God of your Fathers and carry forth the filthinesse out of the Sanctuary For our Fathers haue trespassed and done euill in the eyes of the Lord our God and haue forsaken him and turned away their faces from the Tabernacle of the Lord and turned their backes 7 The haue also shut the doores of the porch and quenched the Lampes and haue neither burnt Incense nor offered burnt offerings in the Sanctuary vnto the God of Israel Chap. I thinke our Recusants haue Lamps and Incense still Salt They haue or would haue and Images too but they forget that those lamps and those offerings were signes of our Sauiour Christ which is called the light of the world and was once offered to take away the sinnes of many Heb. 9.28 as they may reade in the Epistle to the Hebrues where also they shall finde that the Priests Heb. 8.4 according to the Law offered guifts which serue vnto the Patterne of heauenly things Reu. 8.3 And in the Reuelation they may reade of an Angel that had a golden Censer much odours were giuen vnto him that hee should offer with the praiers of all Saints vpon the golden Altar c. Whereby wee are giuen to vnderstand that euen the prayers of the faithfull are no other waies accepted then through the sweete smelling merits of our Sauiour Christ who hauing brought the light of the Gospell giuen himselfe to death for vs and finished whatsoeuer in the Law was figured Lamps incense and burnt offerings and such like must now cease Chap. May not the Preachers of the truth be called Lamps and Lights Salt Yes so long as they leade vs to Christ which is the true light of the world and many such Lampes were put out not quenched with water but consumed with fire in the Bonerian daies God grant all Princes to take héed how they put out such lamps as shew the way to life eternall The same Spirit that said Touch not mine annoynted said also Do my Prophets no harme Psa 105.5 the learned know who are meant by annoynted in that place Chap. Doe not you thinke that many of the superstitious Catholickes for by that word I distinguish them from such Catholickes as are sincere did not murmure in the daies of our late Soueraigne when they saw the pictures of Lions Dragōs painted where they were wont to see such pictures as bare the names of Christ Mary and Iohn Salt I know not whether they did or no but if they did they had no reason for it sith the Armes of Princes which professe the Gospell with the supporters whether they be Lyons Dragons or Vnicornes being painted in Churches do signifie that the Prince whose Armes those are is a defender of the faith and of the pure worship of the liuing God and that hee is supreme Gouernour in all causes and ouer all persons not onely Ciuill but also Ecclesiasticall next and immediately vnder Christ in his owne Dominions who knowes not the simple people are more easily drawne to make Idols of the pictures of Saints then of beasts and therefore the remouing of their pictures and the placing of Arms in their roome is no sufficient cause to kéepe them from Church as if Christian Princes were to be reckoned amongst those that set vp their banners for tokens Psal 74.4 Chap. Sure I thinke some of them could frame themselues to come to Church notwithstanding the want of Images but that they haue beene away so long Salt This is no good excuse for a man to say I cannot doe this or that because I haue not done it in a great time for then Israel and Iudah might haue made that excuse for not comming to Ierusalem to keepe the Passeouer in the second Moneth for that it is said they had not done it in a great time as it was written 2 Chro. 30 Chap. I will trouble you no more about this matter Salt My good friend talke not of troubling mee it is the King and those that gouerne vnder his Maiesty that are troubled they see there be sundry opinions and that the fauourers of each would bee tollerated to haue their owne way which if it should be granted then the land though it haue a godly King should appeare as if it had none But wise and godly Kings which make much of them that are knowne to feare the Lord suffer not euery man especially
your old Latine Edition and in other places of the New Testament so in the psalmes And comming at last to the nintie psalme hee saith Sunt huius Psalmi versus septemdecim c. There bee seauenteene verses in this psalme and I dare bee bolde to say there bee more faults in the Translation of this psalme then there bee verses in the psalme And in the same Chapter he saith Itaque vere dici potest non esse hos Dauidicos Psalmos quos illi in suis sacris lectitant atque cantitant sed Graci Latinique interpretis errores Therefore it may truely bee said that the psalmes which they vsually reade and sing in their Seruice are not Dauids psalms but the errours of the Greeke and Latine Interpreter It were heere too long to recite all the faults he setteth downe in the twelfth chapter of that second question where hee noteth many places of the New Testament corrupted in the Latine Edition Towardes the end of the Chapter hee saith hee hath chosen a fewe out of manny if hee should set downe all hee should make a Volume If you list to buy the Booke it is Intituled Disputatio de sacra scriptura c. Tract Did not he which wrote that booke finde fault with them Pag. 118. which put ipsa for ipsum in the third of Genesis verse 15 Guid. Yes for finding Hu in the Hebrew and Autos in the Greeke He saw there was no reason why it should bee translated ipsae she as if not Christ but the blessed Virgin had broken the Serpents head Speake your minde M Tract did she or our blessed Sauiour dash the Diuels power Tract She brought forth him that did it Guid. We all agree in that and therefore she may be wel called blessed being preferred through the fauour of God to such an excellent office Mad. Me thinkes learned men that agree in this that the holy Scriptures are penned by the holy Ghost and contain such things as are true should leaue publishing one anothers ouersights or whatsoeuer you list to call it and ioyne together in Christian and louing sort to set forth a sound translation It is an easie matter to espy here and theee a broken quarrell in the windowes of a great building yea and of a little house too But to builde the whole house and so to build it as it may please euery mans eye that hath skill in building is another maner of matter Guid Yea Madame if charity had once so possest our hearts as to moue vs in a brotherly sort to seeke for the truth and to worship the fountaine of our life light as he might bee pleased with vs we might sing Ecee quam bonum c. Behold how good Psal 133. c. Rom. Before wee come to singing let mee heare what men of your side say of Baptisme Guid. A reuerend Father of this Land in one of his bookes saith thus Since Children be defiled by Adam B. B. if they may not be washed by Christ the disobedience of man shall be mightier to condemnation then the grace of God and the obedience of Christ to iustification which the Scriptures reiect as a wicked absurdity Wherefore the Church absolutely and flatly may not assure saluation vnto children vnbaptized lest they seeme naturally innocent or generally sanctified without baptisme albeit their parents desiring and seeking it Note if they be preuented by naturall necessity we must leaue them to the goodnesse and secret election of God not without hope because in their parents there wanted not will but an extremity disappointed them And in the Children the let was weakenesse of Age not wickednesse of heart And so the Sacrament omitted not for any contempt of Religion but by strictnesse of time In which cases Saint Augustine saith the want of baptisme may bee supplyed if it please God c. Tract Doth not your allowed Catechisme hold Sacraments generally necessary to Saluation Guid. Yes for that which is ordained by Christ to confirme our faith c. may well bee counted needfull to Saluation generally Tract What saith your Caluin is he of no request with you now Guid. I know in what request hee is Iust cap 15. But thus hee writeth touching the matter wee haue in hand No small wrong is done to the Couenant of God if wee doe not rest in it as though it were weake in it selfe whereas the effect thereof hangeth neither vpon Bapstime nor vpon any other Additions There is afterward added to it a Sacrament like a seale not that it bringeth effectualnesse to the promise of God as to a thing weake of it selfe but onely confirmeth it to vs. Whereupon it followeth the Children of the faithfull are not therefore baptized that they may then first bee made the Children of God which before were strangers from the Church Note Not by â—aâ—ure but by promise but rather that they bee therefore receiued by a solemne signe into the Church because by the benefite of the promise they did already belong to the body of our Sauâ—our Iesus Christ c. And in the sixteenth Chapter hee saith Baptisme besides this that it is a signe to testifie religion before men sheweth first the cleansing of sinne which we obtaine of the bloud of Christ then the mortifying the flesh which standeth vpon the partaking of his death by which the faithfull are regenerate to newnesse of lifâ— receiued into the fellowship of Christ Further he saith whatsoeuer agreeth with Circumcision agreeth also with Baptisme 1. The foundation in both is one to wit Christ 2. The promises whereupon the power of the signes consist are one namely of the fatherly fauour of God of the forgiuenesse of sinnes of life euerlasting 3. The thing figured is all one in both to wit regeneration Tract What else haue you of his Guid. Fateor oblatam scandali occasionem Epist resp si infans c. I confesse there is an occasion of scandall or offence offered to all the godly if by thy slackenesse or negligence the infant depart without Baptisme Wherefore not onely are they not to be borne withall which neglect baptisme but they also are not to be allowed which through a certaine boasting and for ostentations sake do long protract the administratioÌ„ of an holy thing But the infant by that meanes is depriued of the signe of health to with Baptisme yet I deny that his state is any thing the worse before God for albeit Baptisme be a seale of our adoption yet we are writteÌ„ in the book of life both by the grace of God and also by his promise For tell mee for what cause our children are saued but by that word Ego sum Deus seminis tui Gen 17.7 I am the God of thy seed and except that word did appertalne vnto them they were not to bee admitted vnto Baptisme Now if their saluation stayeth it selfe on the promise of God and that foundation bee fit of