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A12793 The sale of salt. Or The seasoning of soules Namely such, as for whom the chapmen here doe come, and whom the author, which taketh the name of a salter, is willing, what in him lieth, to season with the salt of the Word, leauing the successe to the Lord, without whose blessing in such works we can do nothing. Written by Iohn Spicer, minister of the word of God at Leckhamsteed in the county of Buckingham. Spicer, John. 1611 (1611) STC 23101; ESTC S117790 175,913 412

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they fell on sleepe or rose vp and tooke it But to let this goe I wonder you or any other should be so fond to thinke that the blessed Virgin enioying the true light is honoured with lights of mans making she requireth no such honour The Angell bad Iohn worship God and our Sauiour sayth not that he is worshipped with setting vp of Candles but in spirit and trueth that is with a true Spirituall worship In a word we are not bid to make lights for God or the Virgin but while we haue light to beleeue in the light But I pray you tell me do you know how this carrying of Candles on that day came vp first Ro. No not I it may be my Cozen Tractable doth If you doe Couzen I pray let vs heare it Trac I am wearie now with sitting here so long If this company will come againe to morrow you shall heare what I haue read of it Guid. If it please you Madam let vs returne to morrow Mad. If it please God I will not so much to heare this as some other talke that you may fall into Mad. Howe where be you Rom. Who is there Mad. Here is a Fryer Rom. You are welcome Mad. Why because I come in the name of a Fryer I thinke the answere here is a Fryer so much vsed of those that knock at mens dores did rise of this that of all other men Fryers were most welcome in times past Guid. I thinke they were as welcome then as those which call themselues Iesuits haue of late been welcom to Recusants but I see no reason why they should be so welcome now seeing it is very likely they haue had a strong hand in this monstrous intended murder whereby some of their Schollers are fallen into the pit they made for others Their plot was by powder and powder to put them in minde of their sinne and to forewarne them of their fall as it is said scarred some of them in drying of it And as Senacherib was slaine by his owne sonnes so these by their owne plots wrought their owne woe When there is some speciall matter to bee noted the holy Ghost to the end of certaine verses addeth this word Selah the which word some Hebrew readers say is as much as O rem notatu dignam eleuetur hic vox O matter worthy to bee noted let the voyce be lifted vp here This word is vsed thrise in the 140 Psalm They haue sharpened their tongues like a Serpent Adders poyson is vnder their lippes Selah The proud haue laid a snare for mee and spred a not with cords in my path way and set grins for me Selah Let not the wicked haue his desire ô Lord performe not his wicked thought least hee be proud Selah Blessed bee God which hath deliuered our King and many others out of cruell Faux his bloudy iaw not suffering him to performe that wicked thought but marred all his mischeuous matches Mad. Amen Amen Truly mistresse Romana me thinkes if there were nothing else to draw you from your Popish superstition that same inherent cruelty which is in those that fauour it against such as will not play with puppets as they themselues do might driue you out of that bloudy Babylon and cause you to ioyne with such as embrace the glorious Gospell of Iesus Christ sincerely Tract You would haue my cozen and me to go from the Catholicks Was not S. Austin a Catholicke and were not all those against whom he wrote Heretickes Guid. What if it were so can you proue that we hold any opinions that S. Austin sodainly confuted by the Scriptures do you not know that the summe of the auncient Catholicke faith so much as is needfull to saluation is contained in that Creed Quicunque vult c. Whosoeuer will bee saued c. and that this Creed is read oft-times in our parish Churches yearely Rom. Come cozen come let vs sit down I pray you and tell vs how Candlemasse day came vp for that was your promise yesternight Tract Iacobus Passanantius in his additions to the Commentaries of Thomas Valois and Nicholas Treuet on the sixth booke of S Austin de Ciuitate Dei cap. 7. Guid. Stay a little Tell mee the first word and the last of that Chapter that I may know whether you haue read it your selfe or had it at the second hand Tract Doth euery one that readeth a Chapter remember at all times the first and last word of it I promise you I doe not yet I remember the first word of that Chapter is Reuocatur and the last Obscoenitas Rom. On Cozen this is but to trouble your tale This Iacobus sheweth out of Ouid that after Pluto the God of Hell beeing wounded with that dart which had the golden point had by violence taken away Proserpina the daughter of the Goddesse Ceres and placing her with him in his blacke Chariot had brought her to Hell and made her Queene of the same Her mother Ceres who could not stay Pluto with her out-cryes and piteous moane sought her Daughter euery where day and night with lights and fire-brandes which shee had in Mount Etna By occasion of this Fable faith he there sprang vp superstition in Rome For the women there representing this taking away of Proserpina by force and Ceres seeking her with lights in the Kalends of February which moneth was said to bee consecrated to the God of Hell Pluto which by another name was called Februus from whom the moneth was called February went about with lights ouer Hilles and Vallyes with Ceres seeking Proserpina Now to take away this superstition obserued in the Honour of the Queene of Hell the Church appoynted that in honour of the Queene of Heauen the second day of February to wit on the feast of the Purification the Faithfull people should carry in their handes lighted Candles And hence it is saith hee that that day is called Candelaria We call it Candlemas Guid. And so one superstition gaue place to another Cath. I perceiue this custome or tradition or whatsoeuer you call it is nobly descended and of a very auncient House Her Grand-mother was the Lady Fable her mother was a great Lady in Rome called Madame Superstition who was very fruitfull She hath brought forth many Sonnes and many Daughters many Nephews and many Neeces which yeerely after sheep-shearing giue her many golden fleeces Rom. Alacke for you are you come in with your néeces and fléeces all is but fables with you Tract I thinke in a while they will say as one sayd O quantum nobis profuit illa Fabula dech See the defence of the Apol pag. 273. printed 1570 Guid. Stay betimes Maister Tractable least you marre all for that is no speech of ours but a lesson that one of your late Popes as it is reported taught his Cardinalls Tract Whosoeuer taught it it was a wicked lesson for it was a naughty speech and sauoured of impietie Guid. You cannot for shame
and this sanctified commendation moued a learned Shepeheard ●●il● con ●es ●a pa● 365. yet liuing in this land to say a figure of Christ erected by Gods owne commandement and seruing to put all Israels posterity in minde of the wonders which their fathers saw in the wildernesse when it was abused defaced and the fact allowed by Gods owne mouth And herein hee agréeth with another famous Shepeheard more ancient then hee by more then twelue hundred yeares who speaking of the same Serpent amongst other miracles saith Aug. de ●iu●e Dei l. 10. ● 8 Quem sane serpentem propter facti memoriam reseruatum cum ●upulus postea errans tanquam idolum colere caepisset Ezekias Rex religiosa potestate Deo seruiens cum magna pietatis laude contriuit which Serpent surely being reserued for a remembrance of that which was done when afterward the people erring beganne to worship it as an idoll King Ezekiah seruing God with a religious power brake it in peeces with great commendation of piety But sith you haue put mée in minde of some spéeches of that learned Shepeheard which yet liueth in the land giue me leaue to call to minde what the same man in the same booke vnder the name of Theophilus saith to Philander touching such as would subdue mens consciences to that which was flat against the expresse word of the eternall God we must not rebell saith hee and take armes against the Prince as you affirme wee may but with reuerence and humility serue God before the Prince and that is nothing against our oath And againe hee saith if you can excuse vs before God when you mis-leade vs we will serue him as you shall appoint otherwise if euery man shal answere for himselfe good reason he be maister of his owne conscience in that which toucheth him so néere and no man shall excuse him for and a little after hee hath these words The poorest wretch may bee supreme gouernour of his owne heart Princes rule the publique and externall actions of their Countries but not the consciences of men Chap. But the words of that reuerend learned Pastor are not so be taken as if hee thought it not lawfull for Christian Princes by lawes to vrge such as haue beene mis-led in superstition and Idolatrie to be hearers of Gods word which ought to guide our consciences and by which they may bee better instructed brought to a more sound and pure worshipping c. Salt No he is rather to bee thought in this case to agrée with another learned pastor Meet Mo●●y 〈…〉 1. who speaking of such men saith Whē they are well instructed and taught the Magistrats must compel them to sound and pure worshippings which are prescribed in holy Scriptures for the Magistrate may not suffer his Citizens to liue without exercises of godlinesse for the end of ciuill rule is that the Citizens should liue both vertuously and happely and who séeth not but that godlinesse and the worshipping of God is the cheife of all vertues But peraduenture some will say if a Prince should compel those to the right vse of the Sacraments which are not perswaded of the truth he should driue them head-long into sinne so farre is it off from setting forward their saluation wherefore I thinke it good to make a distinction betweene that which is off or by it selfe and that which is at aduenture by hap or as they are wont to speake in schooles that which commeth per accident that is by chance the Magistrate in this thing which we haue now in hand setteth forth to his subiects that thing which is of it selfe right good and iust but that sinne thereby commeth that happeneth nothing at all by his default but rather by those mens incredulity or mis-beléefe whereof hée is not to be accused when as hee hath diligently laboured to haue his Citizens well instructed neither the Papists which at this day are suffered of Christian Magistrates are ignorant that wee ought to haue in vse the Sacraments instituted by the Lord wherefore they cannot iustly complaine of their Magistrates if they will haue them vprightly and in due honour ministred vnto them moreouer they which obiect these things vnto vs must diligently marke this that by the same way we may cauill against God for hee hath set forth vnto men his law which is most perfect to be kept of them shall we say vnto him we are weake and of a corrupt and vitious nature neither can we performe thy commandements as thou cōmandest whether we do against that which thou hast commanded or whether we endeauour our selues to performe that which thou hast bidden we shall euer sinne because we shall faint neither can we obey as wee should do wherefore whatsoeuer wee dee wee shal not auoide sinne If a-any br●●●lingly should speake these things against God might not he by good right answere they be iust and right which I haue set forth vnto you to her obserued but in that you are séeble and we●ke it ought not to by counted a fault in mee for I haue excellently holp●● your weakenesse which for your sakes haue giuen my Sonne vnto the death if you shall beléeue onely in him whatsoeuer you shall not accomplish in performing my precepts it shall not bee imputed to you to euerlasting death So also may a good Prince answere I require of you those things which are written in the word of God and which are decent and 〈◊〉 edifie wherefore if your opinion or conscience be against it that is not to bee ascribed vnto me which haue diligently laboured that you might not be ignorant of the truth and miserably perish for I haue diligently séene vnto that you should be taught and instructed in the truth and so will I still goe forward in exhorting admonishing and commanding you but reade you the holy Scriptures heare your teachers and pray vnto God to open the eyes of your mindes these things if the Prince shall say vnto those men which do so cauill against him I do not sée by what right or by what meanes he can be reprehended But it returne to the Shepeheards that refuse or at least bee loath to vse the white cloake which hath another name vsurped by car-men and carters when they put on their sauecoates I pray thée tel me are they married Chap. Yes neither is it to bee thought marriage beeing honourable among all men and the forbidding of it a point of diuelish doctrine that the Shepeheard doth mislike that onely he would haue them to make choyce of such as be modest and vertuous without greedy scraping or taking any mans house ouer his head or bestowing more vpon them then is decent and necessary that by their good carrying they may do what in them lyeth to stop the mouthes of such as swell against them as misliking their marriages more then any other Not any families of Beare-wards Tinkers Pedlers and Hog-heards so trouble the common-wealth
your old Latine Edition and in other places of the New Testament so in the psalmes And comming at last to the nintie psalme hee saith Sunt huius Psalmi versus septemdecim c. There bee seauenteene verses in this psalme and I dare bee bolde to say there bee more faults in the Translation of this psalme then there bee verses in the psalme And in the same Chapter he saith Itaque vere dici potest non esse hos Dauidicos Psalmos quos illi in suis sacris lectitant atque cantitant sed Graci Latinique interpretis errores Therefore it may truely bee said that the psalmes which they vsually reade and sing in their Seruice are not Dauids psalms but the errours of the Greeke and Latine Interpreter It were heere too long to recite all the faults he setteth downe in the twelfth chapter of that second question where hee noteth many places of the New Testament corrupted in the Latine Edition Towardes the end of the Chapter hee saith hee hath chosen a fewe out of manny if hee should set downe all hee should make a Volume If you list to buy the Booke it is Intituled Disputatio de sacra scriptura c. Tract Did not he which wrote that booke finde fault with them Pag. 118. which put ipsa for ipsum in the third of Genesis verse 15 Guid. Yes for finding Hu in the Hebrew and Autos in the Greeke He saw there was no reason why it should bee translated ipsae she as if not Christ but the blessed Virgin had broken the Serpents head Speake your minde M Tract did she or our blessed Sauiour dash the Diuels power Tract She brought forth him that did it Guid. We all agree in that and therefore she may be wel called blessed being preferred through the fauour of God to such an excellent office Mad. Me thinkes learned men that agree in this that the holy Scriptures are penned by the holy Ghost and contain such things as are true should leaue publishing one anothers ouersights or whatsoeuer you list to call it and ioyne together in Christian and louing sort to set forth a sound translation It is an easie matter to espy here and theee a broken quarrell in the windowes of a great building yea and of a little house too But to builde the whole house and so to build it as it may please euery mans eye that hath skill in building is another maner of matter Guid Yea Madame if charity had once so possest our hearts as to moue vs in a brotherly sort to seeke for the truth and to worship the fountaine of our life light as he might bee pleased with vs we might sing Ecee quam bonum c. Behold how good Psal 133. c. Rom. Before wee come to singing let mee heare what men of your side say of Baptisme Guid. A reuerend Father of this Land in one of his bookes saith thus Since Children be defiled by Adam B. B. if they may not be washed by Christ the disobedience of man shall be mightier to condemnation then the grace of God and the obedience of Christ to iustification which the Scriptures reiect as a wicked absurdity Wherefore the Church absolutely and flatly may not assure saluation vnto children vnbaptized lest they seeme naturally innocent or generally sanctified without baptisme albeit their parents desiring and seeking it Note if they be preuented by naturall necessity we must leaue them to the goodnesse and secret election of God not without hope because in their parents there wanted not will but an extremity disappointed them And in the Children the let was weakenesse of Age not wickednesse of heart And so the Sacrament omitted not for any contempt of Religion but by strictnesse of time In which cases Saint Augustine saith the want of baptisme may bee supplyed if it please God c. Tract Doth not your allowed Catechisme hold Sacraments generally necessary to Saluation Guid. Yes for that which is ordained by Christ to confirme our faith c. may well bee counted needfull to Saluation generally Tract What saith your Caluin is he of no request with you now Guid. I know in what request hee is Iust cap 15. But thus hee writeth touching the matter wee haue in hand No small wrong is done to the Couenant of God if wee doe not rest in it as though it were weake in it selfe whereas the effect thereof hangeth neither vpon Bapstime nor vpon any other Additions There is afterward added to it a Sacrament like a seale not that it bringeth effectualnesse to the promise of God as to a thing weake of it selfe but onely confirmeth it to vs. Whereupon it followeth the Children of the faithfull are not therefore baptized that they may then first bee made the Children of God which before were strangers from the Church Note Not by ●a●ure but by promise but rather that they bee therefore receiued by a solemne signe into the Church because by the benefite of the promise they did already belong to the body of our Sau●our Iesus Christ c. And in the sixteenth Chapter hee saith Baptisme besides this that it is a signe to testifie religion before men sheweth first the cleansing of sinne which we obtaine of the bloud of Christ then the mortifying the flesh which standeth vpon the partaking of his death by which the faithfull are regenerate to newnesse of lif● receiued into the fellowship of Christ Further he saith whatsoeuer agreeth with Circumcision agreeth also with Baptisme 1. The foundation in both is one to wit Christ 2. The promises whereupon the power of the signes consist are one namely of the fatherly fauour of God of the forgiuenesse of sinnes of life euerlasting 3. The thing figured is all one in both to wit regeneration Tract What else haue you of his Guid. Fateor oblatam scandali occasionem Epist resp si infans c. I confesse there is an occasion of scandall or offence offered to all the godly if by thy slackenesse or negligence the infant depart without Baptisme Wherefore not onely are they not to be borne withall which neglect baptisme but they also are not to be allowed which through a certaine boasting and for ostentations sake do long protract the administratiō of an holy thing But the infant by that meanes is depriued of the signe of health to with Baptisme yet I deny that his state is any thing the worse before God for albeit Baptisme be a seale of our adoption yet we are writtē in the book of life both by the grace of God and also by his promise For tell mee for what cause our children are saued but by that word Ego sum Deus seminis tui Gen 17.7 I am the God of thy seed and except that word did appertalne vnto them they were not to bee admitted vnto Baptisme Now if their saluation stayeth it selfe on the promise of God and that foundation bee fit of