and the Isralites now not of this world Ioh. 15.19 then the king thereof is not of this world as they are not of this world Ioh 17.16 aÌ„d if these spiritual lords coÌ„fesse that Chr king now of the sand aÌ„d people of Israel but yet he hath left our lord the king hâ—s deputy to make such lawes and lords over the church as pleaseth him the word of the lord is against theÌ„ â—ere is but one â—ord 1. Cor. 12.5 one law giver Iam. 4.12 over his Church Nay his Ma himself is against theÌ„ who saith There is no earthly monarch ever the Church whose word must be a law saith further Christ is his Churches monarch the holy ghost his deputy alleging luk 22.25 the kings of the Gentiles beare rule one over another c. but I shal not be so among you saying further Christ then he ascended left not Peter with them to direct theÌ„ in al truth but promissed to send the holy ghost to them for that end c. If any wishe rebellions against the word of the lord herein yet let them not be rebellious against the word of the king Oh that any thinge would prevail with theÌ„ to make them leave of these cruel courses of persecuting poore soules that desire truely to feare God and are most faithful subjects to the king and desire also the salvatioÌ„ of the soules of these their cruel persecutors who do seeke their vtter vndoeing by al the forenamed persecutions onely because they cannot of faith offer vp such worship to God as these spirituall lords comaund and the rather let them leave of persecutinge seeing the kings Ma tie acknowledgeth It is a sure rule in divinitie that God loves not to plant his church by violeÌ„ce bloodshed And if it be a law for al ChristiaÌ„s that in indifferent thinges one must not offeÌ„d another but the stronge but forbeare rather theÌ„ offeÌ„d his weake brother other wyse he wounds the weake conscience sinnes against Christ 1. Cor 8. TheÌ„ how much lesse hath any man power to be lord over the weake conscience forceing it to practice that it hath not faith in bringing it thereby vnto same and vnto condemnation Rom. 14. wee do vnfainedly acknowledg the authority of earthly Magistrats Gods blessed ordinance and that al earthly authority and comaund apperteynes vnto theÌ„ let them comaund what they will wee must obey either to do or suffer vpoÌ„ paine of Gods displeasure besides their punishment But al men must let God alone with his right which is to be lord and law-giver to the soule aÌ„d not comaund obedience for God where he comaundeth none And this is onely that which wee dare not but maintaine vpoÌ„ the peril of our soules which is greater then bodily afflictioÌ„ And onely for the maintenance of Christs right herein do false Prophets and deceivers who by that craft are clothed in fyne apparel and faire deliciously every day labor to make vs odious iÌ„ the ears aÌ„d eyes of Prince and people knoweing wel that if they had not power by persecution to force meÌ„ to dissemble to beleeve as they their kingdome and paine would soone come to nought the wickednes of which course is discovered in this writinge followeing For the manner being Dialogue-wise wee thought it the fittest in two respects First for the vnderstanding of the simple to whome especially Gods misteries apperteyne more then to the wise and prudent of the world Secondly because al the objections that wee have met with might be set downe and the playnelyer answered And because wee have faith and assurance that many wil see and acknowledg the vnlawfulnes of tyraÌ„nyzing over the conscieÌ„ce vn persecuting the bodies of such as cannot be subject wee have also thought it meet to manifest the careful estate of such subjection that they may deliver their soules if they wil be saved and also have set downe the beginning of that old and good way that Iohn Baptist Christ Iesus aÌ„d his Apostles have left vnto al that wil be saved â—nto the end of the world Beseeching that Almighty worker that he would worke in the harts and consciences of men that they may enquire for it and that out of the scriptures and walke therein theÌ„ shal they find rest vnto their soules although afflictions to their bodies Oh 〈…〉 is time for the Lord to worke for they have destroyed his law and have set vp in many Nations such worship for God as best pleaseth theÌ„ that are in authority and have power to persecute the contrary mynded Let all Gods people cry How long Lord when wilt thou come to destroy Antychrists cruel Kingdome and establish Christs meeke and peaceable Kingdome as thou haist begun even come Lord Iesus by the Spirit of thy Moueth and the brighnes of thy coming even come quickely Amen By Christs vnworthy witnesses his Majesties faithful subjects Comonly but most falsly called Annabaptists Antichristian VVhy come you not to Church Christian What should I do there A. VVorship God C. I must worship God as he requireth aÌ„d not as any mortal man requireth A. True but the worship that wee require you to offer vp is the vvorship God requireth C. If it be so I wil withal willingnes asseÌ„t vnto it but my conscience must be satisfied there of by the word of truth that I may have faith in it other wise it is my grevious sai Rom. 14.23 For I may not beleeve it so to be because you affirme it A. VVell you must go to Church othervvise you are disobedient to the law vvil fall vnder punishment C. But still remember that you would have me worship God as you pretend therefore let vs agree what worship God requireth Christ saith Ioh 4.24 God is a spirit they that worship him must worship him in spirit truth Here wee see what worship God requireth viz That wee worship him with our soules and Spirits and also that we worship him according to the truth of his word And therefore for your booke worship If it were according to truth from the which it is as far as light is from darknes yet if I cannot offer it vp with my Spirit it is not acceptable to God but most abhominable A. Well you must come to Church C. I pray let aske you a question do you seeke the glory of God and the salvation of my soule herein or your owne obedience A. I seeke the glory of God and the salvation of your soule not my ovvne obedience C. Then manifest it no by words onely but by deeds and truth which if you do you will not threaten me punishmeÌ„t to cause me to come but with meekenes and patience satisfye my conscience by the word of truth for this is the duety of the Minist of Christ 2. Tim. 2.24 that I may come with a willing mynd so shall I be accepted 2. Cor. 8.12 Psal 110.3 For if by threatning me punishment as imprisonment banishment or death
meanes for the publishinge of his gospell which he that had all power had not nor hath comaunded Magistracie is a power of this world the kingdome power subjects and meanes of publishing the gospell are not of this world A. A Goodly thinge indeed that Men must go about the Countrie to preach C. In your estimation it is base and contemptible your pompe and pride will not beare this it is more ease for you to hunt after promotion till you come to the highest in getting to be cheife Bishop of Bishops within these dominions and then cometh your fall full lowe iff you repent not but the wisedome of God hath appointed the cheifest Officers of Christs Kingdome even the Appostles thus basely to go vp and downe to and fro to preach his Gospel yea that worthy Apostle Paul preached this gospel night day with many teares openly throughout every house Act. 20. I. But if this bee thus as for my owne parte I am fullie perswaded it is then I see the high commission cannot stand for as I take it it is onely for causes Ecclesiasticall C. So far as it is over Church matters it is most vnlawfull for the comission for judging and punishing of the transgressors of the lawes of Christs Church is given to Christ the Monarch thereof a parte whereof he hath left to his Disciples which is no worldly comission or power but onely the power of the Lord Iesus the vttermost of which comission is excomunication 1. Cor. 5. A. The high commission is from the King dare you once call it into question C. If I do take any authority from the kings Ma tie let me be judged worthy my desert but if I defend the authoritie of Christ Iesus over mens soules which apperteyneth to no mortall Man whatsoever then knowe you that whosoever would rob him of that honor which is not of this world he wil tread theÌ„ vnder foote Earthly authoritie belongeth to earthly Kings but spirituall authoritie belongeth to that one spirituall King who is King of Kings A. Well all your pleading vvill not serve your turne either you must come to Church or els go to prison C. I have shewed you by the law of Christ that your course is most wicked to compell any by persecution to performe any service to God as you pretend Now I desire also to shewe you that the Statute law of the land requireth onely civill obedience and his Ma ties writings mainteyning the Oath of alligience Testifieth the same The law of the laÌ„d requireth that whosoever cometh not to Church or receiveth not the Sacraments the Oath of allegeance is to bee tendered to them which that it may be manifest to 〈…〉 that not onely I but al that professe the faith with me are most willing to subscribe vnto it in faithfulnes and truth I have thought good to â—presse it The words of the Oath Anno 3. Iacobi Regis I. A. B. do truely sincerely acknowledg professe testifie declare in my conscience before God the World that our Soveraigne Lord king Iames is lawful King off this Realme of al other his Ma dominions Countries And that the Pope neither of himselfe nor by any other authoritie of the Chu or Sea off Rome or by any other meanes with any other hath any power or authoritie to depose the king or to dispose any off his Majest Kingdomes of Dominions or to authorize any forraigne Prince to invade or annoy him or his Countries or to discharge any off his subjects off their allegiance obedience to his Majest or to give licence or leave to any off theÌ„ to beare armes raise tumults or to offer any violence or hurt to this Ma Royal person State or Goverment or to any off his Ma subjects within his Ma Dominions Also I do sweare from my hart that notwithstanding any declaration or sentence off excommunication or depravation made or granted or to bee made or granted by the Pope or his Successors or by any authority derived or pretended to bee derived froÌ„ him or his Sea against the said king his heires or Successors or any absolution off the said subjects from their obedience I wil beare faith and true allegiance to his Majesty his heires and Successors and him and them wil defend to the vttermost off my power against all conspiraces and attempts whatsoever which shal bee made against his or their persons their Crowne and dignity by reason or cullor off any such sentence or declaration or otherwise and will do my best endeavour to disclose and make knowne vnto his Majesty his Heires and Successors all treasons and traiterous conspiraces which I shal knowe or heare of to be against him or any of them And I do further sweare that I do from my hart abhor detest and abivre as impious and hereticall this damnable doctrine and position that Princes which be excommunicated or deprived by the Pope may be deposed or murthered by their subjects or any other whatsoever And I do beleeve and in conscience am resolved that neither the Pope nor any person whatsoever hath power to absolve me of this Oath or any part thereoff which I acknowledg by good and full authority to be lawfully ministred vnto me do renounce all pardons and dispensations to the contrary And all these thinges I do plainely sincerely acknowledge and sweare according to these expresse words by me spoken according to the plaine comon sense and vnderstanding off the same words without any Aequivocation or mental evasion or secret reservatioÌ„ whatsoever And I do make this recognition acknowledgment hartily willingly truely vpon the true faith of a Christian So helpe me God A. This Oath was intended for the Papists not for you C. It is not so For his Ma tie at the last Session of Parli Anno 1609. saith thus Some doubts have bene conceived anent the vseing off the oath off allegeance that parte off the Act that ordeynes the takeing thereoff is thought so obscure that no man can tell vvho ought to bee pressed therevvith c. And therefore iff there bee any cruple touching the ministering thereof I would wish it now to be cleared c. And therevpon this statute was made Anno 7. Regni Regis Iacobi c. Chap. 6. rowards the latter end And if any person or persons whatsoever of above thage of 18 yeres do now stand or at any time hereafter shal stand be pretented indighted convicted for not coming to church or receiving the lords supper according to the lawes statutes of this realme before the ordinary or any other haveing power to take such presentments or indightmeÌ„ts or iff the Minister pettie Constable or ChurchwardeÌ„s or any two of them shall at any time hereafter complaine to any Iustice of peace reare adioyning to the place where any person complained of shall dwell the said justice shal find cause of suspition that then
power off Rome The Beast or to that Spirituall cruell power off England his Image wheresoever they or eyther of them are exalted such a one and such persons shall drinke off the wine off Gods wrath and bee tormented in fire and brimstone and shall have no rest day nor night for evermore I. Your discription of the Beast the Papists will deny so will the English Lord Bbs and their followers deny your discription of his ymage but thousands will grant both and some will deny both as the Familists who say that ReligioÌ„ standeth not in outward thinges aÌ„d therefore they wil submit to any outward service and they that do not so but suffex persecution say they are iustly persecuted C. Those enimies to the Crosse of Christ are most of them not worth enformation because for the most part they are such as do with an high hand sin after enlightninge haveing forsaken the way wherein they walked because they would not beare Christs Crosse but in that some simple soules may be seduced by them let vs a little in generall compare their opinion with the scriptures True it is that religion standeth not onely in outward thinges for God requireth the hart and truth in the inward parts but that God requireth not our subjection vpon feareful punishments to those outward ordinances which he requireth is a doctrine of devils as I shall prove And first for the outward ordinances off the old TestameÌ„t which were meerly shadowes now are beggerly rudiments Gal. 4.16 what indignation the lord had towards them that transgressed Nadab and Abihu offering straing fire which the Lord hath not comaunded a fire went out from the Lord devoured them Levit. 10.1.2 The men off Bethshâ—mosh lokeing into the outward arke which God had forbidden Num 4.20 The Lord slevve fifty thousand threescore and ten of them 1. Sam. 6.19 Ozza of a good intent leaninge his shoulder to the same outward arke which God forbad the Lord slewe him 1. Chro. 13 7.-10 Ozziah the King offering vp outward incense which God comaunded onely the Preist Num. 18.3.7 The Lord smit him with leprosye vntil his death 2. Chro. 26. Corah and his company what feareful judgments came vpon theÌ„ though he a Levite for presuming to meddle with the Preists office the earth openinge and swallowing them vp Num. 16. King Saule likewise offering vp incense in time off need as he thought the Lord rent his Kingdome from him 1. SaÌ„ 13. as also for his disobedience afterwards touchinge the fat of Amelecks cattle 1. SaÌ„ 15. How often was the wrath of the Lord powred downe vpon the Isralites because off their transgression of his outward ordinances in place person and thinges for it was a Low Levit. 17.3.4 That who so brought not his sacrifice to the place viz to the doore of the tabernacle of the congregation but offered it vp other where blood should be imputed to that man he should be cut off from among his people yea such sacrifices were estemed off God as offered to devils vers 7. the lord caused them to pronounce Dewt. 27.26 cursed be he that confirmeth not al the words of thir law to do them all the people must say so be it was God thus jealous of Moses ordinances aÌ„d is the lesse jelous of Christs must he die that dispiseth Moses law and shal he escape that dispiseth Christs vpon what pretence soever And Christ saith It becometh him all his to fulfill all righteousnes in outward ordinaÌ„ces as washinge with water Mat. 3.15 whosoever saith he knoweth God keepeth not his comaundments which are outward as wel as inward he is a lyar 1. Ioh. 2.4 whosoever breakes the least comaundment and teacheth men so he shal be called the least in the kingdome of heaven Mat. 5.19 whosoever will not heare that Prophet Chr Iesus in al thinges that he shal say vnto theÌ„ shal be destroyed out off his people Act. 3.22.23 the affectioÌ„s of the soule are to be manifested by the actions of the body according to Gods word and al other good inteÌ„ts or affections are abhominable Wee may not neither can wee Worship God with our Spirits and the Devill with our Bodies For VVee are bought VVith a price and therefore must not bee the Servants off Men but must glorifie God with our bodies with out spirits for they are his 1. Cor. 6.20 and. 7.23 And this mai suffice to satisfy any coÌ„cerning the over throwe off this accursed conceit knowing also that Christ and his Apostles and all his Disciples to the end of the world might and may live peaceably enough from persecution if this doctrine might be observed viz submissioÌ„ with our bodies to any outward service The Lord discover such Hipocrites I. I blesse God I have learned of thApostle 2. Cor. 13.8 To say nothing against the truth but for the truth and therefore when I see thinges are evidently manifested by the scriptures disirous to submit aÌ„d not to cavil But you knowe it is pleaded they have the word and Sacraments in the English assemblies C. I confesse they have the scriptures in the which Gods misceries are conteyned which is locked vp from theÌ„ aÌ„d revealed to his Saincts Col. 1.26 which they woefully pervert to their owne destruction They have also imitations of Gods ordinances as water bread and wine aÌ„d other thinges which they use after their owne inveÌ„tions which thinges maketh them boast so much of their Christianity and of their Church and which maketh them reason thus Wee are Gods people for wee have the word and Sacraments The Philistimes might better have reasoned 1. SaÌ„ 5. who had the true arke of God amongst them these have but a shewe Wee are Gods people for wee have Gods Arke and holy Oracles amongst vs. But I thinke they had no great cause to rejoyce there of in the eÌ„d No more shal these have in the end when God recompenceth al that with hold the truth in vnrighteousnes Gods dealing is not now as it was of old he now reserveth punishmeÌ„t to the last day he is patieÌ„t and would have men repent but they despise his bountifulnes and long suffering preaching peace when there is no peace I. It cannot be denyed but that the ministers preach many excellent truths and do bring people to much reformation in many thinges C. True it cannot be denyed For if the devil should come in his owne likenes men would resist him but because he traÌ„sformeth himselfe into an Angel of light therefore he deceiveth So his ministers if they should teach al lyes meÌ„ would not be deceived by them nor plead for them but because they teach many truths people receive them but first for whatsoever they teach they neither could nor should teach publiquely their moueths should be stopped if they received not that their power to teach such truths froÌ„ those the Dragon sends aÌ„d therefore none caÌ„ receive those truths from theÌ„
serveing him their Maister In one respect they shal be saved in another respect they shal be damned but what false doctrine this is Gods holy word doth discover Our Saviour saith No man can serve two maisters ye cannot serve God and Riches Mat. 6.25 And can any serve Christ and the Beast God and the Dragon when Christ shal come at the last day to give to every Man according to his workes wil he say to any one In respect of thy personal graces I will save thee come thou blessed as he wil say to all his Children But in respect of thy being a Member of Antichrists body I will damne thee go thou cursed as he wil to al that worship or obey the Beast wil not Christ Iesus pronounce absolutely either salvation or condemnation to every one And that according to this word Ioh. 12 48. so as God in his righteousnes will either justify or condemne every Man so hath he taught vs to knowe that no Fountaine can make salt water and sweet Iam. 3.12 And therefore that by mens fruits wee should knowe and judg theÌ„ to be not both good and evill trees at one time as this opinion teacheth but either good or evill alwayes takeing heed wee justify not the wicked nor condemne the innocent both which are abhominable to the lord aÌ„d for any comunioÌ„ whatsoever with them what fellowship hath Christ with Antychrist the righteous with the wicked the servant of the lambe with the Servants of the beast but I leave this for further answere to those who although they are nearer to this man that hath published this opinioÌ„ theÌ„ I am yet hath according to truth confessed in writinge That there is nothing to be expected froÌ„ Christ by any member of the Church of England but a powâ—ing out of his eternal wrath vpon them Mr. De-Cluse Advertis Pag. 9. I. Wel I praise God I am much enformed in these thinges yet one thinge more I wil desire your answere vnto The case standeth thus with me In these thinges I am betwixt faith and doubting though the rather I beleeve these thinges you say are true and that I may never go to these assemblies againe without sin but I am not so perswaded thereoff that I dare suffer for it what if I should not haveing faith to suffer for feare of persecution go to their worship againe C. It were your most feareful sin which I prove thus and I pray you observe it wel you must do it either as being verely perswaded you do well and then al this beginning of light in you should bee extinguished aÌ„d so your estate is with the worst if not worse or els you must do it doubting whether you do wel or no For I hope you wil not say you do it knowing you do evil If you do it doubting the Lord saith It is sin Rom. 14.23 Which I hope you will acknowledg and not approve your selfe to do wel in syning and then God is mercifull to forgive your sinne either this or any other 1. Iohn 1.9 But iff you say you sinne not therein doeing it doubtingly you make God a lyar who saith It is sin your sin remaineth I. What iff I should many times go through weaknes C. If you vnfainedly repent being through weaknes there is mercy with God though it should be seaventy times seven times in a day Mat 18.21.22 But wee had need to take heed of our repentance Th-apostle saith where there is Godly sorrowe for sin what care it worketh in you yea what indignation c. 2. Cor. 7. and custome in sin is dangerous wee had need to take heed wee be not hardned through the deceitfulnes of sin heb 3.13 I. Then you how that if any Man approve himselfe in syninge his sin remaineth C. If any man sin and say he hath not sinned there is no truth in him 1. Ioh. 1.8 and God vvill enter into judgment with him Ier. 2.35 I. Then absolutely I see that if any man worship the beast or his ymage etc. as before you have shewed he neither hath faith nor feare of God in him what shewe of Godlines soever he maketh But what say you man not a Man that seperateth from all vncleanenes though he yet see not the way off Christ in his Ordinances may not such a Man bee saved C. Yes vpon this conditioÌ„ that he beleeve in Iesus Christ for his onely righteousnes and be willing and ready to heare and obey his ordinances example hereof wee have in Cornelius Act. 10. But if anie wil not heare that Prophet Chr Iesus in al thinges whatsoever he shal say vnto theÌ„ shal be destroied out of his people Act. 3.22.23 A. What do you meane by wil not heare C. That when any parte of the waies of God is manifest to them they despise and contemne it or carelesly neglect it otherwise men may not receive some of Christs truth aÌ„d yet not be said that they wil not receive it I. Next after forsaking the wayes of wickednes and imbraceing Christ for our righteousnes what must wee do C. Christs whole Testament teacheth this and no other way after repentance from dead workes and faith towards God to be baptized with water Mat. 16.16 Act. 2.41 and 8.12.38 and 9.18 and a clowde of witnesses calling these the beginnings of Christ and foundation Heb. 6.1 etc. I. May none be admitted to the Church to pertake in the ordinances except they be baptized If any teach otherwise he presumeth above that which is write 1. Cor. 4.6 aÌ„d therefore ought to be held accursed Gal. 1.8.9 For there was never true Church since Christs manifesting in the flesh joyned together of vnbaptized persons though some have vainely published the contrary I. True I thinke that cannot be denyed where the persoÌ„s were never baptized but now the members of the Church off Rome from whence the baptisme of the Church of England cometh are baptized therefore why need they againe be baptized C. If they bee baptized with Christs baptisme I wil acknowledg they need not againe be baptized but that the baptisme of the Chur of Rome is Christs baptisme that can never bee proved for Christ requireth that onely his Disciple should baptise his disciple and into his body none of which is in Romes baptisme For Christs adversaries wash with water those that are not Christs Disciples into the body not of Christ but of Antichrist I. I confesse that the Church of Rome and meÌ„bers there of are the Church and members of Antichrist but they vse the water and words in their baptisme that Christ appointed C. What theÌ„ is it therefore Chr baptisme the conjurers vsed the same words that thApostles did Act. 19.13 etc. wee adjure you by the name off Iesus c. yet abhominable was their action also Psal 50. Vnto the wicked said God what haist thou to do with my ordinaÌ„ces or to take my word in thy moueth c. also the Papists vse the same words of their