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A02198 An aunsvver to George Giffords pretended defence of read prayers and devised leitourgies with the vngodly cauils and vvicked sclanders comprised in the first part of his book entituled, A short treatise against the Donatists of England. By Iohn Greenwood Christs poore afflicted prisoner in the Fleete at London, for the trueth of the gospel. Greenwood, John, d. 1593.; Johnson, Francis, 1562-1618. 1603 (1603) STC 12340; ESTC S103420 74,892 78

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the true God through the meditation of Christ in spirit and truth with heart and voyce for our present wantes according to the wil of God was never yet sincearly taught by these time-seruing Priests But as an agreeable service to the humors of earthlie minded men which haue not the spirit of God this ware was thrust vpō al people they well knowing that such a ministerie and such a Church of wordlings could neuer haue stood without such a Samaritan worshipp and Egiptian calf and like earthlie deuised to counterfeyt a Religion al men inclyned to some And long have I heard this pretended worship inveyed against by many sometymes zealous for the errours and confused order therof Yet could I not heare anie to sett downe or teach which was the true prayer that only pleased God manie contriving divers formes of wordes as though they had knowen the heart of man counselled them to reade them day vnto day yeare vnto yeare at evening morning dinner Svpper c. by portion measure and stint as an offering to God what state soever the soule were in not teaching the difference betweene reading vpon a booke and prayer vnto God all this tyme. So that true and only prayer hath not beene taught al this tyme and those that knewe how to pray aright neglect it this reading being most easie as they thinke and they a●test therunto compelled in the publique assemblies thus to mocke with God after the manner of the papists mattins true zeale no where founde but in the persequted remnant These my first writings caryed abroade by such as desired true instruction and willing to make others partakers of such benefites as God imparted vnto them yt fell into Mr. GIFFORDS hand Who as yt seemeth being a marchaunt of such ware fynding the gayne of the priesthood to depend here vpon or as he saith the peace vniformitie of the Church made head vnto yt and that not with purpose as the fruite of his labour sheweth to edifie others but standing himself a minister to this Liturgie having made shipwrack of that conscience he sometimes was thought to haue with all bitternes of spirit and carnal wisdome having no more savour of grace in his writings then there is taste in the white of an egge fleeth vpō me with vncharitable raylings sclanders c And loadeth not only me but al the faithfull that walke by the rule of Gods worde with opprobrious titles of Donatists Brownists Anabaptists Heretiques Schismatiques seditious foolish frantick c. to bring not onely vs but the truth of God into contempt with our Sovereigne Prynce and all that feare God for he ceaseth not with laying al reproches he can devise vpō our persons as one of those Locusts Reu. 9. whose similituds are like vnto horses prepared to battell whose faces like men but theyr teeth as the teeth of Lyons But also perverteth blaspheameth and by al meanes de faceth the truth offered him Wel seyng the natural man perceaveth not the things of the spirit of God I speake not here of the giftes of the spirit but of the grace of God which sanctifieth the same many hauing Charismata that haue not Charin. And seyng I am alreadie thus rent Gods truth delivered by me troden vnder his feete I will followe the councell of Salomon who forewarneth me that he vvhich reproveth a skorner receaueth to himself shame and he that rebuketh the vvicked himself a blot And so tourne me from him leauing him to the consideration of his owne words where hee saieth in his Epistle to the reader He that seemeth most zealous in Religion and refrayneth not his tongue hath but bitternes in his heart in stead of heauenly zeale And though nothing els can be looked for at theyr handes that are Apostate from that light they have sometymes themselves published of which sorte the worlde was never more full yet for the good of Gods chosen scattered abroade and for the defence of Gods trueth I cannot holde my tongue And for the more playnenes I will answeare as to him though I minde not to haue anie more to do with him till God giue him repentance Wishing grace by the direction of Gods holy spirit to him that readeth to weigh both sides vprightly and to follow the truth to his owne saluation IO. GRENWOOD GEORGE GIFFORD To condemne and ouerthrow read prayer ye bring as the ground or foundation of all your matter this Sentence GOD is a Spirit and to be vvorshipped in Spirit Iohn 4. This Scripture in deede is cleare and strong to cut downe al Carnal worship as disgreeing from the nature of GOD. And if any mayntaine that the very bodily action of reading is the worship of God it may fitly be alleadged against them c. IOHN GREENWOODS ANSWER Wisdome is Iustified of her Children IT is agreed vpon and consented vnto on both sides that seeing God is a spirit and onely requireth such to worship him as worship him in spirit and truth all carnall worship is cut downe hereby of what sort soeuer as disagreeing from the nature of God And that all fantastical deuises of men namely whatsoeuer is not warranted in his worde is carnall worship a wearisomnes vnto him and lothsome in his sight So that no man ought to intermedle attempt or practize anie thing in shew of worship whereof they haue not sure grounde of his worde For euen our God is a consuming fire Now to put away all your bodily distinctions and earthly cauils I still affirme as I haue proued the stinting imposing mens writings vpon publique assemblies to haue them read ouer by number and stint or any other way as a worship of God in stead of true inuocation is a meere deuise of man and so carnall worship as also all other reading of mens writinges publiquely or priuatly in this abuse for praying to God Yet say you to apply this Scripture Iohn 4.22.23 in this manner against read prayer is friuolous where I appeale to all mens consciences for the weight therof It is friuolous you say except I can proue that a man cannot pray by the spirit of GOD with sighes and groanes vpon a booke or when prayer is vttered after a prescript forme c. At the first step you go about to alter the question All our prayers ought to be vttered after a prescript forme euen that perfect rule and forme our Sauiour gaue to his Disciples and al poste●ities But this is nothing to the matter For the other which is nothing but a begging of the question I alleaged certayne reasons to this effecet First that those sighes and groanes in reading instead of praying were not of fayth seeing in praying the sighes and groanes that proceede of faith minister matter to praye without a booke Secondly that you did but barely affirme the question in calling it prayer by the spirit when one doth read seing reading is not praying at al for as I then alleadged to inuocate the name of God in