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A16161 The Protestants evidence taken out of good records; shewing that for fifteene hundred yeares next after Christ, divers worthy guides of Gods Church, have in sundry weightie poynts of religion, taught as the Church of England now doth: distributed into severall centuries, and opened, by Simon Birckbek ... Birckbek, Simon, 1584-1656. 1635 (1635) STC 3083; ESTC S102067 458,065 496

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affection as the Scriptures are to be reverenced Is not this to mingl● water with wine base mettall with good Bullion and so indeed a corrupting of Scripture Besides you have which is fearefull detracted from Gods Word tha● which was written with his owne finger to wit the second Commandement against the worship of Images and because the words thereof are sharpe and rip up the heart-strings of your Idolatrie you have therefore omitted them in your Catechismes Prayer bookes and in your Office of the blessed Virgin set foorth by commaund of Pius Quintus and to salve up the matter lest thereby wee should have no more then nine Commaundements you have cut the tenth into two You might well have left the words ●here that Gods people might know there was such a Commandement howsoever they had counted it the first or the second Now as you have detracted so you have added to the rule of Faith by thrusting into the Canon the Apocryphall bookes which Hierome the best languaged of all the Father rejected Lastly you doe not only allow but impose on others a corrupt translation of Scripture to wit the vulgar Latine Edition whereas wee referre our selves to the Originals Now surely wee may better trust an originall Record than a Copie extracted thence and it is more wholesome to drinke at the well-head than at a corrupt and muddie streame Now the Latine Edition which you follow and preferre before all others it is but a Translation it selfe but the Hebrew and Greeke which wee follow are the Well-springs and Originalls Is not this now a manifest corrupting of Scripture to bind all men as your Trent Councell doth that none dare presume to reject this Translation which by your owne men is confessed not to be Saint Hier●mes and already showne to be a corrupt one by the learned of our side PA. I looke to have your Professors named PRO. Restore us entire our Evidence which you have marred and made away returne us our Witnesses which you have chained up in your Vatican Library and elsewhere and wee accept your challenge But doe you indeed looke to have our professors named and why so the true Church of God may bee visible though the names of her visible professors from time to time can not be shewed there might be thousands of professors in former ages and yet happily no particular authentick Record of their names now extant or if extant yet so as we cannot come by them Neverthelesse to answere you at your owne weapon I hope to make it cleare that God hath dealt so graciously with his Church as that he hath continually preserved sufficient testimonies of his truth that are ready to be deposed on our side and that successively from age to age so that I may say as Saint Ambrose did in the like case You may well blot out our Letters but our Faith you shall never abolish Papists may conceale our evidence and wipe out the names of our Professors out of the Records but when all is done the Protestants faith is perpetuall Now in that we yeeld thus farre to their importunitie we doe not this as if it were simply necessary for the Demonstration of our Church to produce such a Catalogue of visible Professors in all Ages but onely out of the confidence of the truth of our cause and partly to stop the mouth of our clamorous adve●saries For it is Tertullians Rule that A Church is to bee accounted Apostolike if it hold Consanguinitie of Doctrine with the Apostles Now what though we could no● successively name such as taught as we doe yet because God hath promised there should be alwaies in the world a true Church having either a larger or smaller number of Prosessors it sufficeth that we are able out of Scripture to demonstrate that we maintaine the same Faith and Religion which the holy Apostles taught and Christ would have to be perpetuall this I say sufficeth to manifest our Succession although all Histories were silent of the names of our Professors Now that I am to speake of the Church in her severall and successive Centuries and Ages to give the Reader some Character and touch thereof I will beginne with the fi●st 600. yeares next after Christ wherein ten severall times during the fi●st three Centuries the Church was persecuted by Tyrants and almost continually assaulted by Heretikes yet in the end Truth prevailed against Error and Patience overcame her Pers●cutors This is the time wherein our learned Bishop Iewell challenged the Papists to shew any Orthodoxe Father Councell or Doctor that for the space of those 600 Yeares taught as the present Church of Rome did the like challenge was lately renued by my deare friend that worthy Divine Doctor Featly of Oxford challenging the Iesuits to produce out of good Authors any Citie Parish or Hamlet within 500. yeares next after Christ wherein there was any visible assembly that maintained in generall the Articles of the Trent Councell or such and such points of Popery as at the Conference hee named in particular Now of this period the first 300. yeares thereof were the very flower of the Primitive Church because that in the●e dayes the truth of the Gospell was infallibly taught by Christ and his Apostles and that in their owne persons as also by othe●s that lived to heare see and converse with those blessed Apostles and disciples of Christ Iesus and this haply made Egesippus an ancient Authour call the Church of those dayes an uncorrupt and virgin Church and yet was this virgin Church ill intreated by such a sowed the tares of errour which yet the carefull husbandman in time weeded up neither indeed for the space of these first 300 could those Tenets of Poperie get any footing their Papall Indulgences were yet unhatched their purgatory fire was yet unkindled it made not as afterwards their pot boyle and their kitchin smoake the Masse was yet unmoulded Transubstantiation was yet unbaked the treasury of Merits was yet unminted the Popes transcendent power was uncreated Ecclesiastickes were unexempted and deposing of Kings yet undreamed of the Lay-people were not yet couzned of the cup Communion under one kinde was not yet in kinde it was not then knowne that Liturgies and prayers were usually and publikely made in a tongue unknowne they did not then worship and adore any wooden or breaden god they worshipt that which they knew and that in Spirit and truth and they called on him in whom they beleeved so did they and so doe wee In a word in the former ages of the Church Satan was bound after the thousandth yeare hee was loosed and after the middle of the second Millenary about the yeare 1370 hee was bound anew Concerning the Churches estate in the next five hundred yeares it grew very corrupt so that of these times we may say as Winefridus borne at Kirton in Devonshire after surnamed Boniface was
resiant at Constantinople and part of the countrey that rebelled was Conquered by the King of Lumbardie and Rome and the Romane Dukedome fell unto the Pope now was the Emperour driven out of Italie and every one ca●cht what he could the Lumbards were the strong●st partie and with them the Pope falls at oddes about the dividing of the spoyle and finding them too hard for him as before he had used the strength of the Lumbards to suppresse the Emperour so now he cals in Pipin Marshall of the Palace or Constable of France and ●●a●les his son surnamed the Great and by their power he suppressed the Lumbards this service did Pipin and his sonne to the See of Rome in requitall whereof Chilp●ricke being a weake Prince was deposed Pipin and the Barons and the people of France are absolved from their Oath of Allegeance and by Pope Zacharies favour Pipin sonne to Carolus Martellus is crowned King of the F●a●ks and Charles the Great sonne to Pipin is crowned Emperour of the West by Pope Leo the third who s●cceeded Adrian Then came the Pope and Charlemaigne to the partage of the Empire leaving a poore pit●ance for the Emperour of Greece And this was the issue of the fierce contentions about Images The Popes pulling downe Emperours and setting up Images and indeed these babies and puppits served the Popes to stalke with●ll but other fowle was shot at to wit Iurisdiction and a temporall Monarchie and indeed about this time the Pope grew great so that it was Gods gracious dealing with his Church that he found such opposition as he did the Easterne Emperour not daring and the Westerne in regard of late courtesies received from the Pope being haply not willing openly to affront him And thus much of Images come we now to speake a word or two of Prayer to Saints Concerning Prayer Bede in his Commentarie on the Proverbes rightly ascribed to Bede and not to Saint Hierome saith We ought to invocate that is by prayer to call into us none but God Antonius in his Melissa or mellifluous Sermon saith that Wee are taught to worship and adore that nature onely which is uncreated but the Spanish Inquisitors have clipt off a piece of his tongue Commanding the word Onely to be blotted out of his writings now the word Onely is the onely principall word that shewes us the Authors drift and the word which Gregorie Nyssen from whom he borrwed this speech used in the Originall Of Faith and Merits Bede held that we are justified by the merits of Christ imputed to us Christs condemnation is our Iustification his death is our life Hee disclaimed Iustification by inherent Righteousnesse for speaking of a regenerate man he saith That no man shall bee saved by the righteousnesse of workes but onely by the righteousnesse of Faith and therefore No man should beleeve that either his freedome of will or his merits are sufficient to bring him unto blisse but understand that he can be saved by the grace of God onely And elsewhere he saith That in the life to come we shall be well rewarded and that not by merits but by grace onely and he hath a sweet prayer that the Lord would take compassion of him and that after the worth and condignitie of his mercies and not after the condignitie of wrath which himselfe had deserved His Scholler Alcuinus maintained the same truth as appeares by these passages following I could saith Alcuinus defile my selfe with sinne but I cannot clense my selfe it is my Saviours bloud that must purge me and againe Whiles I looke on my selfe I find nothing in mee but sinne thy righteousnesse must deliver mee it is thy mercy not my merits that saves mee And elsewhere he saith very sweetly He onely can free me from sinne who came without sinne and was made a sacrifice for sinne And thus by Gods prouidence was the weightie point of Iustification preserved found in these latter and declining times THE NINTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 800. to 900. PAPIST WHat say you of this ninth Age PROTESTANT The seeds of Knowledge which our worthy Co●ntrey-men Bede and Al●win planted in Gods Field shewed themselues in their Schollers such as were Claudius Scotus Scholler to Saint Bede Rabbanus Maurus Abbot of Fulden one who as Trithemius saith for his learning had not his match in Italy or Germanie Haymo bishop of Halberstat and our Countrie-man Ioannes Scotus Erigena all three Schollers to Alcuinus Now also lived Christianus Druthmarus the Monke and the Abbot Walafridus Strabo who collected the ordinary Glosse on the Bible Agobardus bishop of Li●ns Claudius bishop of Thurin in Piemont Bertram a P●iest and Monke of Corbey Abbey wher●of Pascha●ius was sometimes Abbot and about the yeare Eight hu●dred and ●inetie according to Bellarmine lived the Monke Ambrosius Ausbertus About the yeare 880● lived Remigius borne at Aux●rre in Fra●ce and sometimes called Rhemensis haply because he taught at Rhemes there was another Remigius Archbishop of Rhemes who liued in the sixth Age and converted King Clovis of France to the Christian Faith but this Saint Remigius for ought wee know wrot nothing Claudius Scotus already mentioned was one of the Irish Nation by birth a famous Divine and accounted one of the Founders of the Vniversitie of Paris this Claudius Clemens Presbiter was of latter standing and inferiour in place to that other Claudius Scotus bishop of Auxer●e a great opposite to Boniface Archbishop of Me●ts This latter Claudius wrote on the Gospels and Epistles and is often alleaged by the Reverend and learned Lord Primate Doctor Vsher. Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon Claudius Scotus saith That men therefore erre because they know not the Scriptures and because they are ignorant thereof they consequently know not Christ who is the power and wisdome of God Hee also bringeth in that knowne Canon of Saint Herome This because it hath not authoritie from the Scriptures is with the same facilitie contemned wherewith it is avowed Nicephorus Patriarke of Constantinople gives us to understand That the Bookes of the old Testament were twenty and two And treating of the Apocriphall Bookes he mentioneth in particular the Bookes of Maccabees Wisdome Ester Iudith Susanna Tobie Of Communion under both kindes and number of Sacraments Paschasius upon our Saviours words Drinke yee all of this saith Drinke yee all of this as well Ministers as the rest of the Faithfull Rabanus saith That the Lord would have the Sacrament of his Body and blo●d to be received by the mouth of the Faithfull Haymo saith The Cup is called the Communion because all communicate of it and doe take part of the bloud of the Lord which it containeth in it Hee saith all did communicate so that the People as well as the Priests were admitted to the Cup. And Rhemigius hath the very same words
lesse moment and danger such as blemished indeed but tooke not away the Churches being and that they held the true foundation of Religion that is Iustification and Salvation by Iesus Christ his merits onely God dealing graciously with our fore-fathers in that this point was ordinarily taught in their bookes of Visitation and Consolation of the sicke In this respect wee hope that divers both formerly and in our dayes who live Papists die Protestants for howsoever in their life time they talke of Workes Merits and Satisfaction to God yet on their death-bed divers of them find little comfort in Crosses and Crucifixes Pictures and Popes pardons in Agnus Dei's blessed G●aines Reliques and the like then they renounce all meere humane satisfaction merit and workes and breath out their last breath in the Protestant language of that holy Martyr Master Lambert who lift up his hands such hands as he had and his fingers ends flaming with fire and cried out to the people in these words None but Christ none but Christ. The example of Stephen Gar●iner Bishop of Winchester is notable to this purpose when the Bishop lay sicke on his death-bed and Doctor Day Bishop of Chichester comming to visit him began to comfort him repeating to him such places of Scripture as did expresse or import the free justification of a repentant sinner in the blood of Christ hereunto Winchester replyed What my Lord quoth he will you open that gap now then farew●ll altogether you may tell this to such as me and others in my case but open once this window to the people and then farewell altogether La●tly we are not simply and in euery thing to follow our Ancestors it was the argument of Simmachus the heathen Our religion which hath continued so long is to bee retained and our Ancestors to be followed by us who happily traced their fore fathers but the Lo●d saith Walke yee not in the ordinances of your fore-fathers neither after their manners nor defile your s●lves with their Idols I am the Lord your God walke yee in my statu●es and keepe them and not after your vaine conversation which yee have received by the tradition of the Fathers as Saint Peter speakes Object If you hope so well of our fore-fathers why hope you not so well of us their children Answer The parties are not alike besides there is great difference of the times then and now the former were times of ignorance these are the dayes wherein light is come into the world in what they erred they erred ignorantly following the conduct of their guides doing as they taught them and so were mislead as Saint Austine saith Errantes ab errantibus by their blind guides but upon better information wee presume they would have reformed their errours Now he is more to bee pitied who stumbleth in the darke than in the day-light men are now admonished of their er●rours offer is made to them to be better instructed so that their censure will bee heavier if either they dote on their owne opinions unwilling to bee instructed in the reveled truth or after sufficient knowl●dge and conviction for some worldly respects they wilfully and obstinatly persist in their old errors and which is farre worse hate and persecute the maintainers of the truth Saint Cyprian saith If any of our Predecessors either of ignorance of simplicity hath no● observed and held that which our Lord hath taught us by his word and example by the Lords mercy pardon might bee granted to his simplicitie but to us that are now admonished and instructed of the Lord pardon cannot bee granted Saint Augustine puts a difference betwixt Heretikes and them that beleeve Heretikes and he saith farther They that defend an opinion false and perverse without pertinacious selfe-mindednesse especially which not the boldn●sse of their owne presumption hath begotten but which from their seduced and erronious Parents they have received and themselves doe seeke the truth with care and diligence ready to amend their errour when they find the truth they are in no wise to bee reckoned among Heretikes this was the case of our Fathers under the Papacie In a word our Fathers they lived in those errours of ignorance not of obstinacie and knew not the dangerous consequence of them such men by particular repen●ance of sinnes knowne and generall repentance of unknowne might by Gods mercie be saved Object If holding the foundation will serve as you seeme to say in the case of our fore-fathers then we may safely obtaine salvation in the Church of Rome Answer This followeth not for the Church of Rome buildeth many things which by consequent destroy the foundation Rome doth both hold the foundation and destroy it she holds it directly destroyes it by consequent As the Galathians held the foundation to wit salvation by Iesus Christ and yet withall held a necessity of joyning Circumcision with Christ which doctrine by consequence destroyed the very foundation for so Saint Paul wrote unto them Galat. 5.2.4 If they were circumcised Christ profited them nothing h●e became of none effect unto them they were fallen from grac● In like sort Poperie opposeth the Faith not directly but obliquely not formally but virtually not in expresse termes but by consequence Poperie overthrowes the foundation by consequence whiles it brings on so many stories of unsound adjections and corrupt super-additions upon the ancient ground-sole of Religion as are like to ●ndanger the whole frame The learned and acute Doctor Doctor Hall now Lord Bishop of Exceter gives severall instances hereof Poperie overthroweth the truth of our Iustification whiles it ascribes it to our owne works the All-sufficiencie of Christs owne Sacrifice whiles they reiterate it daily by the hands of a Priest Of his Satisfaction while th●y hold a payment of our utmost farthings in a devised Purgatorie Of his Mediation while they implore others to ayde them not onely by their Intercession but their Merits suing not onely for their prayers but their gifts the value of the Scriptures whiles they hold them unsufficient obscure in points ess●ntiall to salvation and bind them to an uncertaine d●pendance upon the Church Now for the simpler sort whil●s in truth of heart they hold the maine principles which they know doubtl●sse the mercy of God may passe over their ignorant weakenesse in what they cannot know For the other I feare not to say that many of their errours are wilfull The light of truth hath shined out of heaven to them and they loved darkenesse more than ligh● Thus farre that learned ●ishop PA. The Protestants at ●ast many of them con●●sse there may be salvation in our Church we absolutely deny there●s salv●tion in theirs therefore it is saf●r to come to ours than to s●ay in theirs to be where almost all grant salvation than where the greater part of the world deny it PRO. This point is fully cleered by the judicious Author of the Answer to