Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	people_n	speak_v	word_n	3,971	5	4.1039	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85049	A true relation of a dispute between Francis Fullwood minister of West-Alrington in the county of Devon, and one Thomas Salt-House, as 'tis said, of the county of Westmerland: before the congregation of them, called, Quakers; with some others that accidentally heard thereof: in the house of Henry Pollexsen, Esq; in the said parish of West-Alrington. On Tuesday the 24th day of October 1656. / Published by some that were present at the dispute; out of a single and sincere desire, that error may be shames, and the truth cleared. Together with an answer to James Godfries queries, by the said F.F.	Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693.	1656 (1656)	Wing F2520; Thomason E892_12; ESTC R206561	22,146	38

into the world and the onely means of enlightening all that are enlightned to salvation in the world Paralell with that known place The grace which hath appeared unto all men teaching them not that all are effectually taught thereby yet it is still teaching them as a means i. e. offering to teach them the way to salvation whereby Christ indeed hath made a way and fixed a means which is sufficient as a means to enlighten every man that cometh into the world and thus he may be said to enlighten every man that cometh into the world Now the text taken in this sense 't is evident that all are not effectually enlightened hereby all do not embrace and possesse this light all do not receive it and see in it or yeeld themselves to be savingly enlightened by it the very text tells us that the light shined in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not to some the Gospel is hid and Christ is not in reprobates Joh. 1. 2 Cor. 4. 2 Cor. 13. Thus take the text in which sense you will yet we must conclude that that light which is in every man is not a saving light or sufficient to salvation Qua. Mark people He saith the Spirit doth not convince of righteousness and judgment Full. Pray speak the truth I said if you take the text in the second sense which I do not yet the Spirit doth not convince all of righteousness whom it doth convince of sin or the same Spirit may be said to convince some of sin onely and others both of sin righteousness and judgment Qua. Then people he would perswade us that the same Spirit doth not convince of sin righteousness and judgment Full. Cannot you speak two words true I say the same operation of the Spirit doth not convince of sin and righteousness and judgment so that he doth sometimes convince of sin onely and sometimes of sin righteousness and judgment Qua. Turn to the Text I will send the Comforter and he shall convince the world of sin and righteousness and judgment Again Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive ye know him and he dwelleth with you c. Full. From these two Texts brought by your self for the contrary I shall undertake to prove above all contradiction that the Spirit in this saving sense is not in every man yea that the Spirit as a Comforter reprover of sin righteousness and judgment and as a Spirit of truth is not in every man which one would think should put an utter end unto this part of the controversie This Text Joh. 14. 16 17. saith expresly that the Comforter the Spirit of truth which is promised to be with and dwell in the Disciples the world cannot receive because it seeth him not neither knoweth him Qua. Canst thou prove that ever any one had so much light as to convince him of sinne and yet that light was not saving Full. Yes that I can Judas was convinced of his great wickedness in betraying of Christ yet Judas had not saving light Qua. But is not that light which convinceth of sin if improved sufficient to salvation Full. Prove that Qua. Nay do thou prove it is not Full. I will There is no meanes sufficient to salvation but what Scripture asserts to be so But now we do not find in Scripture that the light sufficient to convince of sin if improved by us is sufficient to salvation if we do shew it Some of the company did not like the Argument but neither they nor the Quaker himself said any thing at all in answer thereunto Quak. But now answer thou my question Is that a lawfull Ministry that takes Hire for preaching Full. He may be a lawfull Minister which takes Hire prove the contrary if you can Qua. The false Prophets prophesie for reward and preach for Hire Full. Pray observe is there no difference betwixt taking Hire and preaching meerly for Hire or Hires sake The true Priests in the time of the Law had the Hire of Tithes appointed by God himself were they therefore false Prophets Qua. Doest thou take Hire or no Full. If I do I have Scripture for it the Labourer is worthy of his Hire However you are to prove that I preach for Hire or meerly for the sake of Hire Qua. See he hath acknowledged himself to be a Hireling and that he preacheth for Hire therefore he is a false Prophet c. Full. Did you come from God with these slanders I say I am no Hireling I say I do not preach for Hire though I have a maintenance in liew of preaching Good people you see I am enforced unto it pray give me leave to magnifie my Office a little and I shall easily prove that I am no Hireling A Hireling is one that works meerly for his wages and doth no more work than he is hired to do What say you is he not Qua. Yea. Full. Then I shall prove I am no Hireling Qua. Doest thou do more work then thou art hired to do Full. Yes I do Besides my preaching twice every Lords day which is all I am bound by man unto I Catechize I expound upon some part of Scripture I desire particular conference with my people for their instruction in order to the Sacrament I visit the sick I preach my turn at some Lectures And lastly I have begun to go and teach from house to house which I intend through the Lords assistance to go through withall And all this is more than I have Maintenance from man for Yea you are all my witnesses this day that I am here Hun●ing the Wolfe is not flying from him as the Hireling doth Joh. 50. doing more then I am bound to do or can expect any reward from man for Ye all know I might now have been quiet in my study at home and that I could likely expect nothing here but what you see I here find trouble rayling and reviling for this labour of my love to the souls of my poor people that if possible I might save them out of the hands of such deceivers and seducers Qua. Then thou acknowledgest thou preachest twice a day for Hire Behold people then he is so far an Hireling onely he hath said all this that you might think you are beholding to him Full. I am yet no Hireling prove if you can that I preach twice a day meerly for my maintenance though I am indeed thereby oblged thereunto I preach for the glory of God and my peoples salvation You cannot say I preach for Hire unless you could see my heart without uncharitableness and bearing false witness against me Besides I seriously profess in the presence of God and before you all that as I do more work than man can require so had I no reward from man at all yet I would preach I hope so long as I have a tongue to speak Quak. O people pray try him see whether he will preach for nothing my advice to you all

most remarkeably in the discourse Which doth even perswade us when we have thought thereupon since that though M. Fullwood had more charity for him in his discourse yet indeed he was a Papist The Lord awaken us betimes least we say peace peace when sudden destruction cometh Vale. A True Relation OF A DISPUTE between Francis Fullwood c. THe Quaker having ended his long discourse the drift whereof seemed to be onely to call the people to minde the light within them and to cry down the Ministery under the title of false prophets Mr Fullwood turned himself to Mr Pollexfen and said M. Pollexfen I acknowledg my self under your roof and therefore I shall speak nothing here without your leave M. Pollexfen replied you have liberty to speak your mind But before M. Fullwood could begin to speak he was prevented by a woman Quaker who began before him and forced the company to waite with patience till she had ended such another though shorter discourse as her brother before had delivered When she had ended M. Fullwood began to this effect Fullwood I have one word first unto this woman that spake last and that is to charge her with speaking expresly against the Scripture Sh● told us that eternall life was not to be found in the Scriptures whereas the Apostle saith expresly that the holy Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation Woman There is one lie already Didst not thou say thou wouldst speak but one word and hast thou said but one word I call the people to witness Full. I said I had one word to say to you I can easily instance the like expression in Scripture however I hope I have A w●rd of Exh●rtation Acts 1● 15. learned of him who when he was reviled reviled not again The man Quak. Let that pass the Scripture saith the same that she did Full. Doth any Scripture affirm that we cannot finde eternall life in Scripture Quak. Yea That Scripture which she intended as I shall shew thee Full. Pray Good people observe what he undertakes to prove viz. that the Scripture saith we cannot finde etenall life in Scripture Quak. 'T is in Joh. 5. Search the Scriptures for in them ye think to have eternall life Christ doth not say that ye shall have eternall life therein but ye think c. Full. Pray observe is here any such thing as he undertook to prove doth this Scripture say we cannot finde eternall life in Scripture it saith indeed ye think ye have eternall life in Scripture but is that ye cannot finde eternall life in Scripture Quak. But the Scripture saith He that hath the Son hath life not he that hath the Scriptures Ye will not come to me that ye may have life Full. True but this Son in whom eternall life is is alone to be found in Scriptures as the next words affirm they are they which testifie of me therefore eternall life is to be found in Scripture and thus your own text overthrowes you Full. But these had the Scripture and yet they did not come to Christ that they might have life they were without life though they had the Scriptures Quak. But these Scriptures continue and reveal this Christ in whom alone is eternall life and therefore could they but have searched the Scriptures untill they had found Christ therein they would certainly have found eternall life therein Here are in the text two propositions and an exhortation grounded thereupon 1. In the Scripturess ye think ye have eternall life 2. And as if he had said ye do not think amiss for they are they which testifie of me 3. Hereupon our Saviour grounds and strengthens his exhortation Search the Scriptures Why Because ye think ye have eternall life in Scripture and they do indeed testifie of me in whom alone is this eternall life therefore eternall life viz. in Christ may be found in Scripture Woman Can the letter of Scripture alone give life Full. The Scripture is able as a means though Christ alone be able as the principall cause to make wise unto salvation Quak. 'T is the man of God wise unto salvation Full. There are two truths in the words 1. The Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation 2. They are even able to make the man of God wise unto salvation The Company Come leave this here is an end of this Full. I shall now expect satisfaction from you speaking to the man-Quaker for I have many things to charge you with out of your own discourse But for our clearer process I desire to know first what shall be Judg betwixt us whether the Scripture or not Quak. Yea I am contented that the Scriptures as thou callest them be our Rule Full. I would ask but one thing more Quak. Nay Have I not answered thy question now thou shalt answer me one question Full. What is it Quak. Whether is that the Gospel-ministry that preacheth for hire Full. Have but a little patience and this will have its due place my other question is but in order to our clearer proceeding also Quak. Nay but I have answered thee one question already Full. One word will answer this also The Company Let him speak Full. My second demand then is this Whether the Scripture shall be our Rule in the express letter of it or whether we may draw any consequence from it Quak. I 'le have none of thy meanings or conceivings the very letter of the Scripture shall judg betwixt us Full. I am contented then that it should be so Quak. But now answer thou my question Is that a lawfull Ministry that preacheth for hire or not Full. Sir I expect that you prove from Scripture what you have delivered to us first Quak. Nay now I have answered thee two questions wilt not thou answer me one Full. Yes I will answer it it will come in its course Mr Tripe Then let M. Fullwood put one thing to you first which you delivered to us and do you answer to that and then let him answer this question Full. I am contented Quak. Thou hast a writing in thy pocket he saw M. Fullwood take Notes of his discourse give me thy writing and thou shalt be answered in writing Full. No Sir then for ought I know some Jesuit may answer it and not you I have you here now and expect that you answer for your self Quak. What thou afraid of Jesuit then Full. You shall find through Gods assistance that I am not afraid of you Woman Doest know the voice of a Jesuit when thou hearest him if not thou art a false prophet for the true Prophet knows the voice of a stranger Full. Prove that good woman Woman So I will The Scriptures say a stranger will they not follow for they know not the voice of a stranger Full. Well proved therefore they do know the voice of a stranger Woman But doest thou think that there is ere a Jesuit here Full. I am more charitable Yet more certain I

but a Brother of his put him in mind of the beginning of Heb. 8. this is the summe which he read crying out this is the summe without replying any thing in particular to what had been said One of the Company I confess I am not satisfied with what you have said about Tythes me thinks it is the worst money I lay out all the year Full. It may be so but what have you to say against it You are I think a Neighbour The same I live within the jurisdiction of Malborough Full. Pray come to me another time and I will labour the best I can in a private way to give you satisfaction onely remember what I said I claim not Tythes by a Divine but by a humane Law that is the Law of the Land Some of the Company We grant you have a right unto them by the Law of the Land and so farre we grant Tythes to be lawfull Another But 't is not Tythes but the tenth of the spoyl that Abraham paid Qua. I thou must go look for thy Tythes of the Souldiers Full. 'T is called Tythes expresly paid Tythes in Abraham vers 9. Mr John Tripe 'T is plain they are called Tythes there Another But 't is not commanded he freely gave it Full. The Text saith he paid Tythes and if it be granted me that Tythes are lawfull to be paid in the time of the Gospel I desire no more Quak. The Quaker was silent here a while But at length brake out as he used to do thou hast acknowledged thy self a Hireling and that he takes Tythes and therefore he is a false Prophet Full. Sir you dare not look the Scripture in the face go about to prove what you say from Scripture if you dare I have proved that to take Tythes is not unlawfull either by the Law of God or man And again I solemnly profess that if my lawfull Maintenance were utterly taken away yet I hope I should preach as long as I have a tongue in my head Qua. But thou abidest not in the Doctrine of Christ Full. Shew me wherein I fail I challenge you to shew me wherein or say nothing I have hitherto justified my self Another Wilt thou justifie thy self Full. I mean so far as you charged me I have justified my self The same But thou saidst thou hadst justified thy self Full. Alas let any in the Company shew me wherein I do amiss and I shall give him hearty thanks but if you charge me falsly must not I justifie that is clear my self Quak. He taketh Hire he acknowledgeth himself a Hireling c. Full. Why do you not go about to prove what you say Qua. The Prophets prophesie falsly and the Priests bear rule by their meanes by their great means and riches and the people love to have it so Full. You see good people what a learned Teacher you have the Priests bear rule by their means that is saith he their great means and riches when the weakest here I hope knows that by their means is by their occasion Mrs Pol. Here was silence for a while Then Mrs P. came in and said to Mr Fullwood what canst thou say for singing of Psalms and sprinkling of Infants Quak. Yea what doest say to these things Full. This question about Singing of Psalms minds me of a passage in your discourse which I challenge you to make good you said that the Psalms were turned into English meeter by Fidlers That Thomas Sternhold and John Hopkins were Fidlers Sir I believe you are not worthy to wipe off the dust from their Tombes prove them to be Fidlers you have no revelation from Heaven to slander the dead Qua. Why were they not the Kings Fidlers Full. Prove that they were Quak. Doth not History say so of them Full. What History Quak. I will not tell now Full. You will not Quak. Prove thy sprinkling of Infants Full. This is but to delude the people you know you deny all Baptism with water and that you are as much against the Anabaptists as against us Quak. However it 's required of thee that thou prove the sprinkling Infants Full. I never saw an Infant onely sprinkled Quak. Whether it be dipping or not prove the baptizing them Full. Though it be very unreasonable yet I will follow you I shall prove the baptizing of Infants from foure heads Command Example Scripture-grounds and the Analogy of Baptism to Circumcision 1 From the Command Mat. 28. I reason thus We are commanded to Baptize all Nations but Infants are a great part of all Nations therefore we are commanded to baptize Infants unless you can shew some other place of Scripture to limit it to grown persons limit not the holy One of Israel One of the Company Children are uncapable of Baptism Full. That which you suppose to make them incapable doth not therefore they are not uncapable The same What 's that Full. Faith you say is required in Baptism and that renders Infants uncapable thereof but though faith be required this doth not render Infants uncapable of Baptisme for Children were capable of Circumcision and yet Circumcision was a Signe and a Seal of the righteousness of Faith The same Circumcision was a Signe but no Seal Quak. Circumcision was no Seal Full. I think you are not sure of it wee 'l turn to the Text Rom. 4. 11. And he received the Sign of Circumcision a Seal of the righteousness of Faith Qua. It saith not Circumcision was a Seal Full. No pray le ts read the Text again He received the Signe of Circumcision a Seal c. Doth it not plainly say that Circumcision which was a Signe was a Seal also Who denieth it Another But doth Baptisme come in the room of Circumcision Full. Yes as is evident Col. 2. 11 12. Ye are circumcized with the circumcision of Christ buried with him in Baptisme Baptisme you see is here called the Circumcision of Christ or the Christian Circumcision evidently intimating that Baptisme is come in the same place and use with Christians which Circumcision had among the Jews The same The putting away the filth of the flesh answered to Circumcision Full. True Circumcision in the flesh answered to two things 1. The Circumcision of the heart This was also before Christ came 2. The Circumcision of Christ which is Baptisme of the flesh as well as the heart as appeares in this Text. Mr Tripe Pray why do your people while you read the Psalms sit with their hats on and when they sing the same Psalms with their hats off Full. I conceive I say I conceive because I would speak the truth one reason hereof is because while we read the Psalms they suppose we are speaking to them and when we all sing together they suppose we are all speaking more immediately to God Mr Tripe But how can you require the people to sing when as the Psalms do not agree with their conditions but they sing lies to God Full. Do they not sing the Scriptures

A True Relation OF A DISPUTE BETWEEN Francis Fullwood Minister of West-Alrington in the County of Devon and one Thomas Salt-House as 't is said of the County of Westmerland before the Congregation of them called Quakers with some others that accidentally heard thereof In the House of Henry Pollexfen Esq in the said Parish of West-Alrington On Tuesday the 24th day of October 1656. Published by some that were present at the Dispute out of a single and sincere desire that Error may be shamed and the Truth cleared Together with an Answer to James Godfries Queries By the said F. F. I will provoke you to jealousie by them that are no people and by a foolish Nation will I anger you ROM 10. 19. LONDON Printed by A. M. for Abel Roper at the Sign of the Sun in Fleet-street over against St Dunstans Church 1656. The Preface to the Reader IT seemeth strange to some that M r Fullwood would venture to go into the Quakers meeting but his encouragement thereunto was that that friend who desired him to go hoped that much good might be done thereby and also assured M. Fullwood from M. Pollexfen in whose house the meeting constantly is that he should have free liberty It seemeth yet more strange that M. Fullwood would go himself without giving any notice thereof to any of his friends who might have been helpfull at least as witnesses to him But for satisfaction hereunto the warning was so short viz. on Munday evening for Tuesday morning at eight a clock that that could not have been done well Besides he had no thoughts of making a set dispute of it till provoked by the Quakers railing discourse And had he not gone some would have been ready enough to have said he durst not If any take occasion to wonder at the printing hereof the reasons are plainly thus 1. We hear that the Quaker threatens to print the debate himself from whom we can expect no faithfullness therein 2. We hear that some others who did not write say they will lay their heads together and print as much as they can remember which if they should it must needs be done very imperfectly 3. We hear that since we suppose prejudiced persons are ready to say that the Quaker had the best which unless we count railing reasoning and impudence Arguments we unfainedly think we have all reason to wonder at Especially when we consider how readily plainly punctually and even from the very Scriptures which he himself urged he was in every thing refuted not giving any satisfactory reply to any one answer made by M. Fullwood as we confidently presume would easily be acknowledged by those that are most prejudiced would they but seek to remember the most plausible or else every one of his replies one after another and seriously though never so briefly w●igh them which without partiality we earnestly beseech them to do Wherefore we humbly put this Narrative before them that their more steady eye may take a truer apprehension thereof than their ear before had done Let none slander us with unfaithfullness in the relation We are very certain that we have given the whole reason on both sides and that those which lie under greatest prejudice will upon the reading hereof be forced to confess that most of the very words of M. Fullwood are here set down Truth is the Quaker was so full of impertinencies and repetitions that his words here set down seem to bear no proportion to his tedious and rude discourses but verily we are not conscious to our selves of omitting the least part of reason or shew of reason brought by him and words without reason may pass as wind If any other can remember the least part of his reason not here noted they may print it if it be worth the Press Yet we are again confident they cannot Yea the weight and evidence of M. Fullwoods answers though extemporary is such that we think we may safely let them loose not only to what was said that day but to what can be replied upon the deliberation of all the Quakers betwixt this and Westmerland from whence 't is said this Quaker came So that if any shall print another Narrative let them but be faithfull in setting down M. Fullwoods own answers or arguments in their due weight and fullness or as they are here represented and they may take what liberty they please in setting down his answers or any other themselves can frame or obtain from others We may give freely where we know it will be freely taken whether we give or not We know not that we have concealed any thing save some infirmities viz. repreaches and vile speeches which indeed were such and so many as even forced some of M. Fullwoods more ingenuous adversaries to say that they wondred that flesh and blood could continue so long under such temptations with so much patience and meekness as he did and to use the words of another of them they did verily beleeve E. I. not another Minister in England could have done the like There were some things very remarkeable 1. The cunning craftiness of the Quaker was such that do what M. Fullwood could to force him to it he still found some trick or other to evade the maintaining those passages of dangerous consequence which he let fall in his first discourse which were not a few and which he took notice that M. Fullwood wrote down 2. That he took all occasions to bring the dispute to such points as lie in difference betwixt us and the Anabaptists that thus he might engage the Anabaptists with himself which he indeed effected the greatest advantage that he got that day 3. That upon every stand or difficulty he continually fled unto the common refuge of Hireling taking Tythes divining for money c. discourse too gratefull with such people as use to follow such leaders 4. Though he at first urged to have the express words of Scripture to be the Rule of the Dispute yet he himself did not so much as once keep himself so exactly thereunto which would perswade us that he had some further fetch therein which he had no opportunity to discover 5. Yet his cunning deceived him in that as is most remarkable the very Texts which he himself urged as before was noted afforded so direct and plain an answer upon every occasion that he had no room left for any colourable reply and which forced him to fill up the time with either most empty talk or abusive speeches or plain silence thereby giving way to others to divert the discourse 6. Lastly and which did justly amaze us how boldly and with what enforcing repetitions did M. Fullwood challenge him to set down his opinions and engage that thereupon he would at the next meeting bring Papists books and shew the people his opinions therein and how faintly and almost tauntingly and at last even shamefully and silently did he let it slip as appears more fully and