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A81905 A case of conscience concerning ministers medling with state matters in or out of their sermons resolved more satisfactorily then heretofore. Wherein amongst other particulars, these matters are insisted upon, and cleared. 1 How all controversies and debates among Christians ought to be handled regularly, and conscionably to edification by those that meddle therewith. 2 What the proper employments are of Christian magistrates, and Gospel-Ministers, as their works are distinct, and should be concurrent for the publick good at all times. 3 What the way of Christianity is, whereby at this time our present distractions, and publick breaches may be healed : if magistrates and ministers neglect not the main duties of their respective callings. Where a ground is layed to satisfie the scruple of the Demurrer, and of the Grand Case of Conscience. / Written by John Dury, minister of the Gospel, to give a friend satisfaction: and published at the desire of many. Octob. 3. Imprimatur, Joseph Caryl. Dury, John, 1596-1680. 1649 (1649) Wing D2836; Thomason E579_1; ESTC R206157 157,053 200

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heart to the place of her rest and safetie which the Lord had appointed her therefore he made her to be a pillar of salt with her body turned this way and with her face looking that way neither going backward nor forward but standing still in the mid way that she should remain as an example of a speciall punishment which is due to those who in their hearts controul the past judgements of God and which is inflicted by fixing their spirits in that uselesse posture wherein they set themselves by looking back upon the remembrance of their lost enjoyments Let us therefore beware of remembring things past in such a way lest we be made like to her The second sort of these that look backward upon their suffrings are like unto the dogs who when a stone is cast at them though flung beyond them yet they will run back to bite at it for these upon the consideration of things past though now beyond them yet they whet their affections with malice envy and revenge and their tongues with bitter words against the instruments of Gods judgements over them The punishment of these men is likewise as their fault is their spirits are fixed in the restlesnesse of their condition for the wicked shall have no peace saith my God but as the troubled sea with raging waves they are Isa 57. 20 21. Iude 13. condemned to fome forth their own shame continually they are bent to quarrell with every one who agree not with them in the apprehension of matters by-past and so are made fire-brands to the spirits of unstable souls who take not hold of the rest which Christ hath prepared for them And this is the effect of mens looking backward with discontent upon things that are past whence it doth appear that the onely cure of this distemper is to dash the remembrance of all such things to the end that the things present and to come may be layed to heart in the way of righteousnesse as for those that are truly godly and walk Why true Christians look alwayes forward and not backward Ph. l. 3. 13 14. not after the flesh but after the Spirit they are inclined of themselves to forget the things that are behinde because their whole aime is set to presse forward towards the mark for the price of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus their mark is to have communion with God in all his wayes and the excellency of the life of Christ and the joy which is set before them doth fill their eye drowns all other thoughts so that they look at all times but one onely way which is heaven-ward not walking as men but as citizens of heaven and worthy of God they minde the fruits of the spirit in all goodnesse righteousnesse and truth they prove towards Ephes 5. 9 10. every one in all conditions what is acceptable unto the Lord. And this is that which Ministers who desire to be healers and to repair these breaches should apply themselves to do and put their hearers in minde of chiefly at this time when men are so much set upon mischief For what profit can they bring to themselves to their hearers or to the Gospel of Christ by entertaining them with the grievances of matters that are past and gone there can be none other use of this course but to boil up their spirits into a paroxisme of unrulines and of discontentednesse against those that are in power to make them unweildie for action in order to present and future occasions and to give the common Enemie his hearts desire against us and how sutable this is unto the way of the Gospel of righteousnesse and of peace and to the employment of the Messengers of Gods love whose aime should be to become helpers of the joy of the faithful I shall leave unto their own conscience to judge And when they look backward what they aim at in so doing As for mine own part I shall never call to minde the sinfull courses of either partie to reproach them therewith or to anger any thereby but when I shall be obliged to reflect upon the same I shall endevour two things first to represent the guilt under which we all lye before God that we may for our selves and one for another be humbled under his mighty hand unto repentance Secondly to set the spirits that are upright in their way a work to attend without partialitie through the love of God and of goodnesse all the designes of a publick nature which are necessarie and commendable to heal breaches and to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace And because it is an undoubted truth that this ought to be the behaviour of all those who fear God when he doth visit a people with his judgements as is manifest by the counsell of Zephaniah Chap. 2. v. 1 2 3. I am amazed and much troubled at the different behaviour of some who pretend to zeal in this time of our visitation wondering that Satan should be able to prevail so farre with them as to take them off from this The obstructers of this course at this time reproved aime and to make them instrumentall to pull back others and to stagger any that is conscientious from the prosecution of these duties And that which I most wonder at is the deceitfulnesse of the perswasion which is used to foment the division of our spirits even in those matters wherein we are all equally related unto God for our selves and the publick as in matters of prayer and of thanksgiving shall the discontents about earthly concernments reach even unto heaven shall a dutie which is not onely lawfull and commendable in it self as to men but necessarie and commanded to be observed in such occurrences as we are fallen into as to God be not onely neglected but opposed and made a subject of contradiction nay and made unlawfull to be observed as by us because of some interpretations and constructions which we make of the actions of others to their disadvantage Should my supposall of the failing of another man who yet is willing to draw nigh unto God with me and desirous to have my friendly concurrence and conjunction in drawing neer unto God with him be a just ground for me to refuse to pray for publick mercies and to be thankfull for publick blessings And what although he were as unjust in his way and as guiltie before God as some would make him is it therefore unwarrantable for me at his desire when he is actually in power over me to worship God by craving and acknowledging of seasonable favours for my self and others Pharaoh was a cruell unnaturall Tyrant over the Israelites he was a type of a naturall incorrigible man and declared to be a reprobate whom God would harden to his destruction yet at his intreatie Moses refused not to pray to God for temporall deliverances over him and his people And although Pharaohs end in
A Case of Conscience CONCERNING Ministers medling with State Matters in or out of their SERMONS resolved more satisfactorily then heretofore WHEREIN Amongst other Particulars these matters are insisted upon and cleared 1 How all Controversies and Debates among Christians ought to be handled Regularly and Conscionably to edification by those that meddle therewith 2 What the proper employments are of Christian Magistrates and Gospel-Ministers as their works are distinct and should be concurrent for the publick good at all times 3 What the way of Christianity is whereby at this time our present Distractions and publick Breaches may be healed if Magistrates and Ministers neglect not the main duties of their respective callings Where a ground is layed to satisfie the scruple of the Demurrer and of the Grand Case of Conscience Written by JOHN DVRY Minister of the Gospel to give a Friend satisfaction And published at the desire of many Octob. 3. Imprimatur Joseph Caryl LONDON Printed by Francis Neile for Richard Woden●the at the Signe of the Star under Peters Church in Cornhill 1650. A Case of CONSCIENCE Concerning Ministers medling with State Matters in or out of their Sermons resolved more satisfactorily then heretofore Honoured Sir WHen I wrote to my Friend about intermedling with State Matters in the Pulpit I intended onely in a plain and familiar way to satisfie his desire therefore as in a subject clear to my thoughts I did not much forecast the Matter and Method but festinante calamo and carelesly I did alledge both to justifie mine own practise and to answer that which is objected against it those truths which I thought he would most readily entertain But seeing you have told me your observation that some do not acquiesce in those plain conceptions but intend to wade deeper in that Subject then I seem to have done and that from such I must expect to be contradicted and should do well to prepare for a Controversie Seeing I say this intimation hath been given me both from your self at first and since also from others I think it not amisse to reflect a little deeper upon this matter that if needs there must be a Controversie it may not be a wilde one as now adayes many are but regulated unto edification The occasion of this Discourse For mine own part I have made it my work hitherto to compose Controversies amongst those of my Profession so far as God hath given me addresse thereunto therefore I have not provoked any to strife nor have I entertained any provocation given me as others are wont to do but my way hath been to follow Peace Yet I am not afraid of any Controversie for how else should I be able to deal with Controverters therefore if I shall be drawn forth and set upon in a contentious way for speaking my conscience when I have given no particular offence unto any but plead onely for the justifying of mine own practise I hope I shall neither want resolution to stand up for righteousnesse nor that in such a case the strength which God hath given me to maintain a truth for his glory will fail me And as for that which I am told is given out by some concerning me that I had a private end to gain to my self preferment by writing that Discourse in seeking thereby to favour a designe of the State I can call to witnesse upon my soul him who shall one day reveal the secrets of all hearts and the hidden things of darknes that when I wrote at my friends intreatie upon that subject I had no worldly ayme for my self but my whole designe was onely his spirituall edification and the building up of those to whom by him the Discourse might be imparted nor do I know that ever I was told by any but by your self and that after the Discourse was published and since by one or two more that there was any designe in the State to make an Act to regulate that matter so far was I from favouring such a designe that I was utterly ignorant thereof But it is naturall to men to judge of others by that which they use to do themselves Therefore it is with me a very small thing that I should be judged of men set in such a way nor shall I for this set my self to grieve any of them or give them occasion of discontent but I shall take from hence rather an opportunity to prevent a needlesse debate if any should seek it about this businesse and if a needfull one ought not to be avoided I shall endevour that it may be so ordered as not to increase any breaches confusions and animosities amongst us but rather heal redresse and allay the same If then any shall think himself or his cause much concerned in that which I have said and shall in the trouble of his minde passionately fall either upon me or upon my handling of that subject I shall not at all perhaps take notice of him or if I do it shall onely be with meeknesse to right the wrongful constructions which haply will be made of my words and actions But if any shall with a sober minde seriously take into consideration the matter it self whereof I have declared my judgement and shall endevour to shew me some error in my way I shall heartily thank him and fairly meeting him be very willing to conferre in a brotherly manner about that which shall be found doubtfull between us that the truth which is usefull to edification in this matter may be found out The scope of the Discourse And to this effect because I am glad of any opportunity to meet as in the presence of Christ with the spirit of strife and bitternesse to cast it out from amongst Christians and conjure it by the counsels of Peace and Truth which he hath taught his disciples I shall offer some Rules to be considered by him that will as a professor of Christianity enter into any debate that not onely superfluous and needlesse matters of debate whereunto Satan lyeth in wait to draw us may be prevented but also that the things which shall be found forth the disquirie may without confusion whereunto our nature is bent be discussed understandingly and in an orderly way for edification For I will neither be obliged to spend my time upon trifles and venting of private passions as some delight to do nor will I in a serious matter suffer my thoughts either to walk at random by trusting to my self or to be led up and down in a disorderly manner after the humor of any man whatsoever and this course I take both with mine own spirit and for others sake cautiously that within my self I may discover the snares and plots of Satan against me which my corruptions might close withall and that if others will take upon them to meddle with matters of duty towards God and Men either under a Religious or Civill respect and presuming to play the masters as now almost all do will not
enter into the lists of Conscience and Reason to walk by a Rule therein they may be discovered to be Hypocrites and Fools and consequently unworthy of the conscionable and rationall entertainment which is due unto the ingenuous professors of Christianity and Morality The subject of the Discourse Give me leave then to acquaint you or rather him whosoever he is it maketh no matter to me God accepteth no mans person who is preparing to take up the bucklers in this Cause with the way wherein I purpose God willing to meet him that he may fit himself either to go along with me in it or to shew me a more direct path to walk in Love and Truth wherein I shall promise to follow him because the Prophet saith that two cannot walk together except they be Amos 3. 3. agreed Give me then leave I say to acquaint him that to prevent needlesse controversies and vain jangling and to finde out Peace and Truth in a just debate my way shall be determined and circumscribed by two sorts of Rules which if he cannot except against and rectifie he will be obliged to observe The parts thereof By the first sort of Rules I prepare and order my thoughts before I suffer them to enter upon a Debate By the second I direct them in a right way of proceeding after they are entred thereupon The Preparative Rules towards a Debate are mainly foure whereof The first is concerning the Subject whereof the Debate is to be undertaken The second is concerning the end for which it is to be prosecuted The third concerning the point of difference wherein the doubt doth lye And the fourth is concerning the way of handling the point of doubt to finde a decision thereof Of these I shall briefly shew you what I conceive my self obliged to observe What to be considered concerning the subject of a Debate First concerning the subject whereof a Debate is offered the main thing which I look upon therein is the naturall worth of the matter with the effects and accidentall consequences of the handling thereof that I may know whether it be operae-pretium and that it deserves to be handled yea or no. And that I may make a true estimate hereof I use to consider chiefly three things 1. The nature and kinde of things whereunto the subject doth or doth not belong 2. The recommendation which it hath or hath not from God unto my conscience 3. The ordinary or extraordinarie influence which the right or wrong handling thereof may have upon the spirits of men to affect them to good or evill with powerfull motions If then I find that the subject in its nature and kind doth not belong to the sphere of my profession that it hath no recommendation from Gods Word either in generall or particularly and in expresse terms to be layed to heart and that it hath no powerfull influence either upon mine own spirit or upon the spirits of others to affect the same one way or other I use not to meddle with it for I judge it not worth the handling but if it hath any of these properties or all of them and I finde that doubts are rationally raised about it I think my self bound to discusse the same when they are offered unto me and it is seasonable so to do Now the reason why I think myself obliged to make this or some such like estimate of every subject before I entertain it is lest unawares I might become as one of those of whom the Apostle in his dayes warned Timothie who turned aside 1 Tim. 1. 6 7 unto vain jangling and desiring to be teachers of the Law understood neither what they said nor whereof they affirmed And we see that since his dayes many of the Schoolmen and other brain-sick controverters in our Age have done and still do the like What to be considered about the end for which a Debate is taken up Secondly concerning the end for which a Debate is to be prosecuted I judge thus that except I can perceive the conference to be intended towards the use of edifying whereunto we are commanded to direct all our communication I shall not Eph. 4. 29. meddle with it but rather protest against it and that I may not be mistaken concerning that which is intended towards 1 Cor. 10. 31. the use of edifying I take the measure of mine own and other mens aimes by two Rules the first is If either the matter in it self is not fit to manifest some part of Gods glory or if the aime of those that handle it is not set professedly to shew forth that part of his glory which the matter offers then I conclude that the handling of it is not intended for edification The second is if the matter it self is fit to be reduced to the end of the commandment and those that handle it professe to advance that end by it Which is charity out of a pure 1 Tim. 1. 5. heart and of a good conscience and of faith unfained then I conclude that it is intended for edification because Charity doth edifie 1 Cor. 8. 1. And the exact observation of these two Rules in reflecting upon our own spirit to examine and set our heart aright by them is so absolutely necessarie that in all matters of debate wherein men pretend to knowledge it will be impossible for any man to avoid the snares of his own naturall pride except he can take up this course to quiet and wean his spirit from it for the naturall use of all knowledge doth puffe us up Whence it is that without this spirituall restraint 1 Cor. 8. 1. we shall unavoidably fall into the condemnation of those whom the Apostle doth characterise to be proud knowing nothing but doting about questions and strifes of words of which cometh envy strife railings evill surmisings perverse disputings the proper works of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth From such and such practises he exhorts us to withdraw our selves for we see daily by dolefull experience that the profane and vain bablings whereby men study onely to 2 Tim. 2. 16. please themselves and discredit others do increase unto more ungodlinesse If therefore the end of the debate should not be clearly determined by the forenamed Rules and considerately taken up in the fear of God seeing the beginning of Prov. 17. 14. strife is like the letting out of water I can foresee that I might be heedlesly hurried into a labyrinth of endlesse controversies as I finde some others are whose hands are against every body and every bodies hands are against them Except therefore he that shall take up the Debate will conscionably and rationally shew to me as I shall do to him where he will rest and at what mark he will shoot I will not be obliged to run after him as uncertainly or to fight with him as one that beateth the aire Why the point of difference is to be carefully