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A40227 The papists strength, principles, and doctrines (which they are sworn to preach, from the Councel of Trent, by the Popes authority, and after confirmed by the last General Assembly at Rouen, 1571, all which they have sworn to perform) answered and confuted furthermore their principles and doctrines answered and confuted, as they were laid down in two or three severall papers, by R.W. papist, lately sent from Holland : also a challenge to the pope and all his adherents to choose out of all his dominions some cardinals, fryers, or Jesuits to try their bread and wine, after consecration (by watching on their side and on our side) to prove that if afterward they have consecrated it, whether the bread and wine doth not loose its taste and savour, and so not the body and blood of Christ : also a paper to all them that fast and afflict themselves who are in the will-worship and voluntary humility : also some quæries to all the papists upon earth to be answered in writing and sent to them, which all sects upon the earth call Quakers / by George Fox. Fox, George, 1624-1691.; Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669. 1658 (1658) Wing F1877; ESTC R3577 83,037 105

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like they that have a horn to call their hounds together or the Swine-heard for people to put forth Swine or hower-glasses to preach by the hower prove it by scripture else acknowledge your are in the Apostacy and have set up ●hese things by your own inventions and are them that limit the spirit 62. Where did ever the Apostles consecrate any thing or the scripture speak of Sacraments or where did the Apostles use that which you call holy Water to sprinkle people withal if you cannot shew it by scripture where the Apostles or Christ di● practise any such thing acknowledge your selves that you be in the Apostacy that have set up such things since the dayes of the Apostles and erred from the true Church in your inventions 63. Where did the Apostles when they went to preach or to pray put on white Hoods Copes Tippets white Surplisses and cornered Caps are not all these things got up since the dayes of the Apostles amongst such as are apostat●z●d from them 64. Who are the inwardly Raveners that Christ said should come which was the false Prophets which should have the Sheeps clothing but inwardly ravening Wolves an inwardly ravening Wolf worse then a dog which got the sheeps clothing is not this it that has made war against the Saints that kept the testimony of Jesus the Spirit of prophesy and has not the wolf been covered with the sheeps clothing long such as ravined from the spirit such as has inwardly ravened and would ravine and destroy all that be contrary minded 65. Have not men fallen into the flesh since the dayes of the Apostacy and ravined from the spirit that went forth from the Apostles are not they them that has set up all these outward things as Temples Tythes Priests crosses crucifixes Schooles Colledges to make them Ministers Images Idols Abbies Nunneries Candels Altars Holy waters Praying by Beads sprinkling children with the sign of the crosse and have not you gone back who are ravened from the spirit and so lost the substance and so imitating Aaron and his Sons and imitating Altars and outward things that stood in Moses which the Apostle sayes while Moses was read the veil was over their hearts 66. Was not the first Priest-hood a true tipe and the Temple a true tipe of the inward and the Sanctuary and Altar a tipe and the outward things in the Law shadowing forth the good things that were to come which were but to have their times and seasons and did not the Apostle witnesse the substance of all tipes figures and shadows and signs and similitudes and likenesses and witnessed that which gave him to see where there was no shadow nor changing Now are not all your tythes Temples Priests Altars Crosses Crucifixes Images Similitudes Beads Cloysters Abbies Nunneries set up by your own inventions which men and people has been compelled to worship are not all these lying signs and wonders and the worship of the beast that which they that inwardly ravened set up and is not this to give worship to them that inwardly ravined from the spirit of God who are the Wolves that ●an make a profession of Christs and the Apostles words the Beast and false Prophets which the world has wondred after and should deceive them with their lying signes and wonders Did not the Apostles give hints of such things before their decease did not John see such come as the whole world went after and all that dwelt upon the earth worshipped the Beast Now answer me these things and clear me them by Scripture where the Apostles did practise or act any such things before mentioned and if ye be not such that John and the Apostles speaks of and Christ that should be the inward ravening wolves and go forth from the Apostles which John saw all that dwelt upon the earth worshipped and went after and all that dwelt upon the earth drunk the cup of fornication and should deceive them that dwell upon the earth with their lying signes and wonders and miracles and if you be not them tell me who they are 67 What is the Beast and the number of his names and what are his names and what is his marke that they that would not receive should be persecuted And what is his image and what are his heads and what are his crowns and what is the mother of the harlots and what is the great whore which hath corrupted the earth and what is the cup of fornication that all Nations has drunk of and who are the Beast and false Prophets what are they that are come up since the dayes of the Apostles How to say you believe as the Church believes and you will not trouble your selves about the Scriptures because they are hard to ●e understood you are to see that you be of the Church that the Apostles were of which was the pillar and ground of truth which was without spot or wrinkle or blemish and so their belief stood in Christ and God And when any did wrong yea Peter Peter was withstood and not believed as he believed And as for saying the Scriptures are hard to be understood that is to shew you want the spi●it as was in them that gave them forth in which is the unity and the bond of peace And none comes to be a member of the Church in God the pillar and ground of truth without spot or wrinkle or blemish but who comes into the spirit that they were in that gave forth the Scriptures with which spirit every one in particular hath his particular satisfaction in the Scripture it opens it to them with which spirit he hath unity with God unity with the Scriptures of whom they learned that gave them forth and there is the bond of peace Now to tye up men to believe as others believe and to compell them by a law or a prison or an inquisition this was not in the true Church but this is a marke of the apostacy from it and is a marke that they that do so are the wresters of the Scriptures and err'd ravened from the spirit that they were in that gave them forth For it was not their worke to compell people by a Law by a prison by an Inquisition to obey their faith and to bring them into their worship and doctrine that was not the worke of them that had the spirit that gave forth the Scriptures but this shews and signifies and declares it selfe forth that you would have power over mens faith which saith the Apostles we have not but bade them look at Jesus the author of the faith And again to believe as others believe which do call themselves a Church Is not this different from the Apostles doctrine who saith he that believes hath the witnesse in himself and hast thou faith have it to thy self 68 Is your Church the body of Christ and is your bread the body of Christ after consecration and is that bread after you have consecrated it the Church
was not the work of the Apostles nor of them that kept the faith of Gods elect that gives victory over the world and so those whom you call bad and those whom you call good are all found one here having drank the whores cup found in the fornication without husband out of the true humility which is Christ the seed that bears the sin and iniquity Pr. You take offence because the Roman faith doth teach it lawfull to punish Schismaticks and Hereticks with the sword but if you will be mad and say that those which seduce mens souls cause schisms and heresies in the Church and disturb the peace thereof must be let alone and may in no wise be punished who can help it Answ. The faith of the true Church did not teach any such doctrine to punish Schismaticks and Hereticks or Seducers with an outward sword but said on the contrary their weapons was not carnall but spirituall Now the carnall weapons who punish them you call Hereticks and Schismaticks whose Church is disturbed by such You shew you have not the power to convince gainsayers stop the mouths of them and make them to confess that God is in you of a truth and this doth shew that you are reprobated from the true faith which the Apostles were in and of Christ who said love your enemies and if any one smite thee on the one cheek turn the other novv the beast and false Prophets and the Anti-christs Mother of Harlots should drink the bloud of the Saints Martyrs and Prophets and kill them which the faith and patience of the Saints did not rise against now again the Lamb and the Saints should have the victory which should slay with the sword which are the words of his mouth not vvrestle against flesh and bloud killing creatures but over-comming with the bloud of the Lamb And here is the faith and patience of the Saints whose Kingdom is not of this world but you that are killing with the sword fire and fagots and inquisition bowing before Images Idols Pictures crosses these be all of this world and Kingdomes of it carnal weapons and carnal things held up by the carnal and not spiritual Now of your speaking of the Magistrates of the higher power which is higher then all Image-makers and Idols which gave them to see before transgression was which Transgresser set up Idols and Images which they in the higher power broke down that was the work of the Magistrates and they had the wisdom to make the true figure and shadow which Christ came to put an end to And they that set up Images Idols since the dayes of the Apostles and Pictures and crosses and holds them up by an outward power and Magistrates and compels others to bow down to them is the worship of the beast and not the worship of God and this I declare in the presence of the Lord God and all the Magistrates that be in Gods fear they will break down your Idols and Images and cross●s and crucifixes and masse-houses Schooles and Colledges which you make Priests and Ministers in which they that know the Ministers made by the will of God will do this and the exposition of the Scriptures by your Church we cannot own which is Apostatized from the true Church which bid the Saints keep from Idols which all that be of the true Church are so to do And your Church which is run into Idols Pictures and Likenesses is run into error and is not infallible and so you are gone from the life which gave forth the Scriptures which Peter was in and so run into Idols and must have Images and likenesses to put you in mind of Christ and the Saints And you are gon from the Spirit the holy Ghost which they was in which over-saw the Churches who watched for the Souls and had the rule over the Saints so from this Church are you apostatized its peace which Church is the Pillar and ground of truth the Divel is out of the Pillar and ground of truth he abode not in it and all schismes heresies they cannot disturb the peace of this Church here comes no sword-men here nor carnal weapons nor inquisitions fire nor fagget stockes and prisons nor Idols all such are w●thout that deceives Nations and tells them they are a Church which slayes the S●ints P●ophets and Martyrs the same nature slew Christ and his A●ostles and Abel with their carnall weapons for all are one out of the life and power of God striking at creatures wrestling against flesh and bloud in stead of striking at the power that captivates the creatures to the intent that creatures might come to the liberty of the sons of God now you h●ving not continued in the Apos●l●s faith mind and spirit but Apostatized from them you have all lost the guide and rule as they were in both Protestants and your selves that be out of the life and faith that the Apostles was in that led them to give forth the Scriptures so you have been the wolves in the Sheeps clothing destroying one another about outward things and powers but with the power of God and life of God by them that are in the wisdom of God are you all judged to be out of the Kingdom of peace which is the Kingdom of Christ fighting with carnal weapons hailing to the Goals Inquisitions whips stocks houses of correction faggots fires either Protestants or Papists are you here like the Kingdom of Christ his subjects but like Pharisees Jewes and Cain apostatized from the Apostles lost the faith lost the unity lost the Spirit of God which the Saints was in which led them to give forth the Scriptures in which is the unity which is the bond of peace into which all that is called Christendome must come before they be one and all the names blotted out that is amongst them given to them in the apostacy since the dayes of the Apostles and all their prayers is abomination that be out of that unity and to you that is the word of the Lord and the Quaeries thou hast not answered and your prayers is denyed and your peace also for you have not abided in that which the Apostles and the Saints was in which did oversee the Churches but you are turned strikers which the Apostle saith they should not be so And the Apostle saw the comming in of the man of sin and Christ speaks of Anti-christ and the false Prophets coming in with their signs and lying wonders which if it were possible would deceive the very Elect which John saw was come and went forth from them and bid the Saints keep themselves from Idols for they were them that got up Idols which went forth from the Apostles which Apostles bid the Saints keep to the anointing in them and they need not that any man should teach them but as the same anointing teacheth them which is truth and no lye and even as it had taught them so
be poured upon him and his seat So the Author of all these sects and names hath been from you that first ravened from the spirit of God all Sects upon the earth would kill one another about their worship which shews the spirit of the Devil and not the spirit of the Apostles So when the Beast had overcome the Saints and killed them and got power over all Kindreds Tongues and Nations And the woman fled into the wildernesse and the man-childe caught up to God And the Dragon made war with the ●emnant of her seed that kept the commands of God and here by this you may see where the Church hath been And the great Whore which went forth from the Apostles and ravened from the spirit of God yet hath had the sheeps cloathing which all Nations hath drank her cup She hath corrupted the earth and made the Inhabitants of the earth drunk and the Kings of the earth hath committed fornication with her and all nations have drunk her cup of fornication She sits upon the waters and the waters are peoples not a people and the waters are nations where the Whore sits and multitudes and tongues Now mark if Nations be waters and Peoples be waters and Multitude waters and Tongues waters And the earth is corrupted and the Inhabitants of the earth drunke and all nations have drunk the cup of fornication and the Kings of the earth hath committed fornication with her Now where is the Church and the Rock all this time when nations peoples multitudes and tongues are waters and the Inhabitants of the earth drunk and the earth corrupted and all nations have drunk the whores cup And the whore cannot be said to be the heathen for the Whore goes from something and there is the ancient visible Church And the Kings of the earth have committed fornication with her and all nations have drank the cup of fornication and fornication is before you be married And these are them that have drank the blood of the Prophets Saints and Martyrs that have kept the testimony of Jesus But now again the Lamb is brought forth to rule the Nations with a rod of Iron though the Beast and false Prophet and Kings of the earth and the old Dragon make war against the Lamb and the Saints yet the Lamb and the Saints shall get the victory and the everlasting Gospel shall be preached to all nations kindreds tongues and people and life and immortality shall come to light through the Gospel which your old great Grand-father went from in the dayes of the Apostles and so to that that they went from is people now come and coming and the Lambs wife is making her selfe ready and the Saints do sing the Lord God omnipotent reigns and you are all too immoderate spirits you and all other Sects then to be like the Apostles and Christ or to be like the Church of Christ your fallibility and your Idols Inquisitions and Cruelties makes it appear Two Queries being propounded to thee In thy answer to the first Query thou saist That all Churches or meetings of all sorts of men which have not the spirit of God they may erre In thy answer to the second Query thou saist That the Church of Christ or the meetings of those Christians that follow the rule and law of Christ and are always guided by them cannot erre in any truth Reply Your Church the Church of Rome have erred from the spirit of truth and the truth in which there is no errour As instance you have set up Idols and the spirit of truth in the true Church said Keep your selves from Idols as in Johns Epistle And you have made Ministers by men and by the will of man and so gone into your own wills which the Scripture came not by nor which Christs Ministers were not made by and you and all Apostates since are of men and made by men and so you are erred ●rom the spirit of truth that leads into all truth You are erred from the Crosse of Christ the power of God and have set up outward Crosses and falls down to that instead of falling down to the power of God You have erred from the true Image of God the Saints were in and have set up outward Images of wood and stone You have erred from the Saints life and spirit and from the spirits of just men and so from the true Church and so set up the Reliques as pieces of Cloath and old bones So you know after the flesh which the Apostles did not And you are erred from the Rock and falln into the waters as in Revelations And your Idols Pictures and Images have corrupted the earth so you are erred from the true Church and the true Spirit which cryed against Idols in all ages as Moses said in his command to the people and the Apostles Your Church is commanded to make Images and Idols and the Church in Moses time and the Apostles Churches were commanded to keep from them So no true Church you are but apostates but fallible and erred in matter of faith and doctrine and praised be the Lord who hath brought you to the Light And multitudes of instances may be shewed who compares the Church with what the Churches of Christians were in the dayes of the Apostles And thou saist the difficulty is where the Church of Christ is to be found for Papists Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists Arminians and all schismatical meetings they do claim the title of Christs Church to themselves c. Answ. All these the Roman Church being the mother of the Apostates and all these before-mentioned are started from her her sturdy sons and severall names still in the forme for the light within they are all against and Christ within to reigne and teach and the Law within in the heart and in the mind whereby all comes to know the Lord and the word in the heart and in the mouth to obey and do and the spirit of truth to lead into all truth whereby the Saints have unity one with another and with the Scriptures and with God This the Pap●sts are run from into Images and Idols and this the Baptists Lutherans and all other Sects are run from into other Images within but with the spirit of truth which leads the Saints into all truth are these comprehended and out of all these sects and sorts are people coming I 'le break your names and marr your Images with the spirit of truth fence your selves never so wisely And so none of these nor you neither are of the true Church but the beast and his names but some of these you cal● S●cts are neerer the true Church then you for the world who lives in Images and Idols wonder after you who lives in Images and Idols who are apostatized from them keep your selves from Idols As for the Quakers who are risen in the Ancient of dayes in the end of the night of apostacy among whom that's appeared that cannot be shaken