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A34470 A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath advancing it self against truth and peace at Rochester. Together with the work of four daies disputes, in the Cathedral of Rochester, in the Countie of Kent, betweene several ministers, and Richard Coppin, preacher there, to whom very many people frequentlie came to hear, and much rejoyced at the way of truth and peace he preached, at the same whereof the ministers in those parts began to ring in their pulpits, saying, this man blasphemeth, ... Whereupon arose the disputes, at which were some magistrates, some officers, and souldiers, peaceable and well-minded, and very many people from all parts adjacent, before whom the truth was confirm'd and maintained. The whole matter written by the hearers, on both sides. Published for the confirmation and comfort of all such as receive the truth in the love of it. By Richard Coppin, now in Maidston Prison for the witness of Jesus. Twenty five articles since brought against him by the ministers, as blasphemie, and his answers to them, how he was Coppin, Richard, fl. 1646-1659. 1656 (1656) Wing C6094; ESTC R215454 85,329 113

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it not to them that are free to do it though here were none of them baptized by Christ for he baptized not but his Disciples and they baptized no children but onely such persons as would then be under Johns administration of water which was onely to last Johns time and then to be made void and people did thinke then as some doe now that unlesse their children did recieve baptisme they shall not inherit the Kingdome of God therefore would say Oh give them that they come for lest they should die before they had it Now saith Christ who will forbid a little child that he should not inherit the Kingdome of God I say let such come to me for of such is the Lords Kingdom and they come to me as to their Saviour their Lord and Master therefore forbid them not though they were never baptized with water for they are subjects already fited for the Kingdome of God as a Kingdome of righteousness meekness truth and love having in them no unrighteousness as pride lying and hatred but they like Christ doe know noe sin being not borne in sin till they have the knowledg thereof and oh that all men were become such children free from all sin and so receive the Kingdome of God as a little child Againe he took them up in his armes laid his hands on them and blessed them and this he did to let the people know that they are the blessed of the Lord and that they are within the compass of his armes as being never out but always lodging in his bosom of goodness mercy love and favour as being heires of his Kingdome And of this arme God saith all the day long have I stretthed it forth to a disobedient and gainsaying people to bring them to this state of a little child into meekness and love from sin and rebellion and when this hand of the Lord shall thus come to be laid on any of you then shall you be as a weaned child from the brest of your owne haughtie and laughtie Spirit by which you were nursed up into the state of rebellion against God and of this the Prophet saith who hath belived our report and to whom is the arme of the Lord revealed speaking of Jesus Christ the arme of God that took from us all our sins and laid upon himselfe as 't is written he hath laid on him the iniquities of us all and by which arme Daniel when he lay with his face on the ground was raised up upon the knees and palmes of his hands and from thence to stand upright upon his feet and when he knew it was by the hand of the Lord he stood trembling that is all things of himselfe trembled in himselfe when he stood upright in the Lord Now when this hand is laid on you and doe but touch you the first and second time which is the first and second coming of Christ in manifestation to the soule then shall you stand upright in the Lord and be for none but the Lord and saith Christ feare not for I have the keyes of the house of David which is Heaven and I have the keyes of death and of hell and I can open and none can shut and shut and none can open therefore feare none of those things which thou shalt suffer for behold saith Christ I know thy works and tribulation and the divell shall cast some of you into prison that you may be tryed and you shall have tribulation for a time but be thou faithfull unto death and I will give thee a Crowne of life therefore feare nor for I having the keyes will not suffer you to be shut up any longer then I please but will break open prisons and prison doores saith the Lord and all this is done by his laying his hand upon us and blessing of us therefore henceforth judg charitably of all men in all conditions and no more judge any childe to condemnation that knowes no sin nor Devil but rather this that the Lords mercy is over all his works and will lose nothing of his own Rosewell I desire to have no more to do with this man you see I hope what his aime and end is in all his discourse You say we would hide knowledge from the people but I wish all men did know as much of good as I doe provided I did know no lesse then I doe and I have taken a great deal of pains in my private Studies and publique endeavours for that knowledge I have and if I know any easier way I would spare my paines You labour to bring all men off from our principles of Religion therefore know there is many hundreds of able Ministers and thousands of good Christians which are furnished with arguments against you and all the Jesuites in the world for my part I am not worthy to carry their books after many of them and I say you are a shame to the world and the Turks and Papists may laugh at us to see our division in our Church and I would not have this Auditorie juggled out of their Faith and if any man hath given any incouragement to such a Blasphemer as this is let them be humbled for it and do so no more and I shall Preach against it to my utmost endeavour for he doth overthrow all Ordinances of Baptisme and Sacraments which our Antient Fathers have used which he saith are not necessarie to salvation since Christ and so is an enemy to God Psalme 21. 8. I will end with this Thine hand shall finde out thy enemies that hate thee thou shalt make them as a fiery Oven in the time of thine anger the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath and the fire of hell shall devoure them CHAP. XIX Of Baptism how man is a fiery Oven of the fire and fuel that is to be burnt the Oven cleansed man living in it and how COppin That which I declare concerning Baptisme is that they have no ground from the Lord Jesus Christ by precept nor example to baptize with water Gaman a Anabaptist Let me speak now a word or two because you deny all Water-Baptisme Coppin Pray let me make an end with one first and then if you have any thing to say speak on but I say Baptisme with water upon any subject hath no ground from Christ whether by example nor command to be used since the Death of John being then fulfil'd by Christ and yet I denie it to none whose tender conscience doth desire it for I am become all to all that I win them to the truth as it is in Jesus through my love to them and the manifestation of Christ in them Rosewell Capt. Smith Pray let 's have done Robison I think you will never have done Coppin So far as you speak I must answer and there is one thing more therefore pray have patience for I must answer to this Scripture by him hinted in Psalm 21. 8. 9.
for their sins commited by them who is that sinner then in the world that shall be saved and what is that sinner which shall perish if you know declare it what and who that sinner is Rosewell I doe think there is one in the Pulpit which doth sin against God in blaspheming his Name Coppin There is one then but is that all well you say I am a sinner but I hope you think your selfe to be a righteous person I say then let him that is without sin cast the first stone the Scripture ●aith he hath concluded all men under sin that he might have mercie upon all and 't is wel for me that I am a sinner for then I am sure to have a part in Christ for he came not to call the righteous but sinners Rosewell If none shall be saved but the Elect then all shall not be saved but it is cleare none shall be saved but the Elect when he is revealed from heaven he will take vengeance on all that know not God Isa. 27. 11. Also 2 Thes. 1. 7. 8. And indeed the whole Chapter read and consider it seriously and be not led away by these Imposters Coppin The Lord Jesus is now revealed from heaven in flameing fire taking vengeance on all that know him not neither own him in his people as al unrighteousness of men which hold the truth in unrighteousness doe not and against this the wrath of God is revealed and not against the persons of men yet those men so long as this unrighteousness is in them they appeare not as men yet saved by him but doe suffer the vengeance and terror of this fierce fiery appearing of God to them till the enemie the devill in them is destroyed that made them sinners by commiting sin in them Rosewell Take notice he doth deny a general coming of Christ at the last day in flaming fire rendering vengeance on the persons of men Coppin I do not denie the coming of Christ to render vengeance to whom it belongs for vengeance is mine saith the Lord and I will repay therefore I believe some hath it now and he is come and doth come and will come to take vengeance on all that know him not and is of the devil in me you and every man else and when he is so come to any soul for that work he will then let them know that he himself is that flame of fire that will devoure his adversaries to wit the bryers and thorns with which we fight against God in the time of our ignorance persecuting the truth For what was Paul when Christ came to him was he not a great persecutor of the Church and people of God in those daies and Christ came to him in a flame of fire to take vengeance on that in him which knew not God but had fought against the truth saying Saul Saul why persecutest thou me and yet he in that person after that lived and Preach'd the Gospel which he once destroyed French You had need go and be a School-boy again Coppin I am indeed a School-boy now in the School of Christ and 't were well if you were one there also French The Lord stop thy mouth Rosewell He doth say the day of Judgement is past already Coppin I say it not but do say that it is come and coming and therefore answer me to the former Scripture which you would passe by He that commits sin is of the devill for there is yet more to be said to that before we leave it Rosewell That is every one that continues to be of the Devill he shall be destroyed and there is whole heaps of them in hell now and there for ever shall be tormented with fire and brimstone Coppin If this be all you know I will tell you more He that committeth sin is of the devil and there is no man but doth commit sin and so long the devil raigns in him but when the Lord Jesus Christ doth manifest himself in that man to destroy the works of the devil he then binds the devil in that man disposses●es him of his place throwes out all his goods and houshold stuff and sets them on a fire together according to this Scripture Mark 3. 27. 28. No man can enter into a strong mans house and spoile his goods except he first bind the strong man and then he will spoile his house This house is man the strong man that keeps it is the devill or man in his strengh but when the Lord Jesus Christ who is stronger then he is come then is the devill bound his goods spoiled and all that mans sins forgiven him Rosewell I doe confesse all by nature are sinfull but all doe not sin in that sense so that all that hath been said is to no purpose Coppin You did say at first you would make me so ashamed that I should not shew my face here any more and indeed all that hath been said by you yet is little to that purpose Rosewell Indeed I did alwaies dispairof making your brazen-face ashamed Coppin Then give me leave to proceed I say there is for a time in every man the old man living and sining and also the new man that sineth not and those are at difference one with another untill the one hath overcome the other as Paul saith of himselfe after he was first converted Rom. 7. 22. I delight saith he in the law of God after the inward man but I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind that I cannot doe the things that I would for with my mind I serve the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin so it is no more I that sins but sin that dwelleth in me not the new man but the old man that sineth Rosewell And this you doe affirm to be in every man Capt Smith Mr. Coppin many people desire to know if you speake this of the regenerate state of man or if it be the state of all men Coppin I say this that all men so far as they are regenerated doth not commit sin but the wicked one which is called the unregenerate part doth rule in all men for a time more or lesse untill he be wholly thrown out but when the Lord Jesus by manifesting himselfe for that work doth begin to seize on that wicked part then the work of regeneration begins and then man is not all wicked nor all righteous but part of both as the Apostle was in his first conversion and so long there is a warfare in man till the old man be wholly subdued according to this Scripture he that is in Christ is a new crature old things are past away and all things are become new Captain Smith And concerning this Paul saith I thank God through Jesus Christ with my mind I serve the law of God though with my flesh the law of sin Rosewell He speaketh there of a regenerate state People say let Mr.
themselves ROsewell I hope those things need not proof they are so clear to every intelligible man I desire that we may be all humbled for these things and I desire to have nothing to do any more with this man except I shall be called to it before a Magistrate or the like and then I shall labour to the utmost to vindicate the truth of God and in my Preaching and Catechistical Exercises I shall endeavour to meet with those damnable errours of his And by the way take notice of those which do sow errours among you they be such as serve not the Lord Jesus but their owne bellies Rom. 16. 17. 18. Mark them which cause divisions and avoid them Now when men shall teach a Doctrine contrary to what the Church of God hath received in all Ages and contrary to the judgment of hundreds in this place which are juditious we may account him a Blasphemer he hath blasphemy in his forehead woe be to them which testifie lies in the name of the Lord Coppin I shall return this back on your own head and thereby kill Golia with his own Sword from these words Rom. 16. Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the Doctrine of Christ and avoid them for they are such who serve not the Lord Jesus but their own bellies Now let the people judge who they are for which consider that the Doctrine of Christ is a Doctrine of unitie love joy and peace amongst men but some there are who have caused divisions and offences railings and revilings at this and other meetings now and at other times contrarie to this Doctrine of Christ and who those are I appeale to the people as for my part I know no man I have wronged amongst you nor spoke evil of any but in love to the Lord the truth and your soules I have onelie defended my selfe in the truth I delivered it being so failed against Rosewell Capt. Smith Let 's conclude there will be no end Coppin I must speak a little more therefore observe they which preach for hire and lucre of worldly profit serve not Christ but their bellies not the people but themselves See Micah 3. 5. 6. 7. Thus saith the Lord concerning the Prophets that make my people erre that bite with their teeth and cry peace and he that puteth not into their mouthes they even prepare warre against him therefore night shall be unto you that you shall not have a vision and it shall be dark unto you that you shall not divine and the Sun shall goe downe over the Prophets and the day shall be dark over them then shall the Seers be ashamed and the Diviners confounded yea they shall all cover their lips for there is no answer of God The Prophets are the Priests the Seers are the Magistrates and those joyn together one to keep up another till the one shall be ashamed and the other confounded and so fall together Rosewell But read the 10. 11. verses They build up Sion with blood and Jerusalem with iniquitie the Heads thereof judg for reward and the Priests thereof teach for hire and the Prophets divine for money Coppin Truly I need not read it you have read it for me and it fits you well the Seers and Heads thereof judg for reward and you the Priests divine for money and if they will not pay you then prepare warre against them sue them at the Law have them before Magistrates and cast them into prison as you doe and have done and so serve not the Lord but your own lusts and for ten pound advancement in one place more then in another you will sell any people or Parish for which take one Scripture more 2 Pet. 2. 1 But there shall be false teachers among you who privily shall bring in damnable heresies denying the Lord that bought them ye them that denie him and bring upon themselves swift destruction and many shall follow their pernicious wayes by reason of whom the truth shall be evill spoken of and through covetousness shall they with fained words make merchandize of you sell you for profit whose judgment of long time lingereth not and their damnation slumbereth not and are not those your Tythe-mongers I shall leave to you all to judg French Doe you speak this by me we have seldom halfe our Tythes paid us Coppin What are ye guiltie Do your conscience accuse you I name no man but the Priests teach for hire they bear rule by reason of their means and let the people who love to have it so judg who they be Rosewell I blesse God I am guiltlesse of this thing of preaching for hire but you do see many errours have been broached here let me crave liberty for one word of prayer and I have done DISPUTE IV. Began by William Sanbroke Minister and carried on by Walter Rosewell Minister against Richard Coppin in the Cathedral of the City of Rochester in the County of Kent December 13. CHAP. XIV What is a Gospel Message and what is not that damnation to mankind is not eternal how the Gospel is preached to every creature by whom and when SAnbroke You know the businesse of this time is to state a question about the great businesse of Salvation and Damnation and I shall fall briefly do the businesse in hand Question Whether such persons meaning the Priests and namely such of them as tell people of damnation be evil spirits or no as you did hint the last day I shall now give you the History of this Question It is a rule in the Schools that when any one will begin a question that it is necessary they do first dive into the original and bottom of such a question to see whether it runs and to what it tends but this is a question I did never know till these times of ours in this later Ages in which we have shuffled our selves out of a Church-form Episcopacy to Presbytery from thence to Independency from Independency to Anabaptisme from Anabaptisme to Seeking from Seeking to Vniversal Liberty and so we have lost our selves we know not where 1. We will see what is meant by Damnation and that is in the Word signified to be either temporal or eternal 2. What is the evil spirit and that is in opposition to the good spirit that is the devil 3. Consider the persons which he doth say are evil and they are the Priests now this word Priests was put into the Original Copy those are the Ministers of the Gospel lawfully called by God and men and setled by laying on of hands and the Spirit into a Congregation Now that Proposition that doth affirm that the Ministers which do tell people of damnation are evil spirits he must of necessity be a Blasphemer That Proposition that doth say Christ is an evil spirit that is blasphemy ergo For Christ did preach this Doctrine He that believes shall be saved he that believes not shall be damned Coppin Your
earth I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do for I have raised the dead and cleansed the Lepers and now O Father glorifie thou me and to whom was Christ a stranger but to the other nine for though he had healed them yet he was not manifested in them as an eye to enlighten them whereby to see themselves healed so that there was but one to give thanks for the cleansing of ten and this one was Christ giving thanks to the Father for accepting of him for their cleansing who as yet was a stranger unto them the manifestation of the spirit not yet being given them for which all men come unto him as 't is written Ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the Nations of one man even of the skirt of him that is a Jew saying We will go with you for we have heard that God is with you and look to me all ye to the ends of the earth and be ye saved saith Christ Article 22. That Baptism is of no necessity nor use Answer That that Baptism which is necessary to salvation is of necessity to be used but Water-Baptism was but the Baptism of John and was to end with John being as it was fulfilled by Christ that so Christs own Baptism might take place which was by Fire and the Holy Ghost and of this Baptism there is great necessity because without it no man can be saved Article 23. That there is no place in the whole Word of God that saith there is no Redemption from hell Answer That from that hell which the Scripture speaketh of there is Redemption so saith David Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell and David while he lived was for somtime in it shut up could not come forth the wrath of God lay so hard upon him in his not seeing the pardon of his sins which is hell to all made sensible of it and from which hell there is redemption else what is man redeemed from if not from death and hell which the Scripture saith shall be destroyed and a man must first be in it before he can be redeemed from it but if there be any Scripture in the whole Bible that saith out of hell there is no redemption let it be but by any produced and I shall believe it till then give me leave to believe what I know Article 24. That hell torments are not for ever and the Scripture warrant it Answer That if hell shall have an end as the Scripture saith then needs must hell torments and hell according to Scripture and mens experience is the not injoyment of Gods love and favour and the torments is ignorance of God terror of conscience sorrow of heart trouble of mind being discontented and unsatisfied in his condition all which are hell torments taking place in man for a time until Christ hath overcome them and chased them away by placing in their rooms the joyes of heaven as 't is written Sorrow sighing and mourning may continue for a night but joy comes in the morning and then sorrow and sighing shall all fly away and be no more seen Article 25. That Jesus Christ is not in heaven above Answer That Jesus Christ is the fulness of God and this fulness cannot be subscribed limited or confined to any one place or ●erson locally for it fills heaven and earth and all things therein of its fulness that the heaven of heavens cannot contain him but he is ascended far above all heavens into God himselfe that he might fill all things with himselfe and therein containe all things in himselfe of high and low of things in heaven and of things on earth even in him that in all things he might have the preheminence as one God over all through all and in all therefore to honour Christ with a heaven this is the highest heaven and the greatest honour that can be given to him all which I know him both to be and to have by the witness of the Spirit with the Scripture and my own experience and he that honours not Christ with this heaven he honours him with none at all but dethrones him of his Throne and detains from his glory and such a one as this denies Christ to be in heaven A POSTSCRIPT by friends to comfort the Author of this work in his present Troubles by R. W. L. T Was bravely ventured what three to one And he to keep the field till all were gone But some few men with Swords and Generals Justices of the Peace and men with mauls Consulting the Black-guard their Snakie Den A lodge from whence that cruel Serpenten Spirit of Persecution doth arise Again as 't was in the old Marian daies Else what means it in this our weekly newes From all quarters such dolours to infuse Into our ears which makes us surely think Cruelty shall enter and Justice wink A while to give this bloody Serpent string That so they easie may pluck out his sting From Esam Colchester and this of Kent Tells the Whore rides as though the Skies she 'd rent With her myst'rious fornications gain As though o're the whole world she meant to raign Her Seas nought but mire and dirt cast up To make all drink her filthy wrathful cup Her Merchants roaring bring all to their ways As French sometime Felt-maker in the Mays Rosewell from West to East did rage about 'gainst State when Love by 's sin was rooted out But when thou at Oxford and Glocester try'd Truth then advanced Justice on thy side And quail'd the haughtinesse of Chim'rims pride Whose malice 't was at first to have thee dide In crimson blood and so keep up their trade For which again thou 'rt now a Pris'ner made Go on brave heart let thine enemies know God will them in his fi'ry Oven throw And there perhaps make them his truth Keep Lent for sins or break them on th 〈…〉 FINIS Coll. 2. 2. Chap 1. 27. Tim: 2 Rev. 12 7 8 9 * For the word Chimmerims read Bezaes Translation Zephany 1. 4. Hosea 10. 5. 2 Kings 23. 5. with notes on the Margent As they were at Oxford Worcester Glocester and elsewhere Luke 22. 70. 23. 3. Luke 11. 53. 54. John 16. 2● 1 Pet. 2. 22 2 Cor 5. 21 Isa 53 1 Cor 12. Ephes 5. 34 Jude 9 1 John 3. 8 Isa 53 6 1 Pet 2 24. Redemption from hell John 10 14 Hosea 13 9● Heb 4. 10. Luke 17. 10. Iob 35 6. 7 8. Gallat 3. 10. Psa. 89. 13. 14 15 Rom 11 32 Rom. 19. 21. John 1● 11 Isa 53. 1 Gall 4 4 5 Micah 7 19 Jer. 31 34. Heb● 10 5 Joh. 10 17 18 1 Pet 2 24 John 3 18 Isaiah 53 8. 〈…〉 h 42 6 7 R●v. 1. 17. 18 ●●aiah 26. 19. Iohn 12. 32. Revel. 1. 6. Ier. 50. 5 Heb. 12 last 1 Cor. 3. 13. Isaiah 4 4. Iude 23 Ier 7. 31. 32. 1 Cor. 3. 〈…〉 Isaiah 27 4.