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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A74979	Excommunicatio excommunicata, or, A censure of the Presbyterian censures and proceedings in the Classis at Manchester wherein is modestly examined what ecclesiastical or civil function [sic] they pretend for their new and usurped power : in a discourse betwixt the ministers of that Classis, and some dissenting Christians.	Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.; Heyrick, Richard, 1600-1667.	1658 (1658)	Wing A1026A; ESTC R42720	45,307	67

Lord it over Gods inheritance whereas indeed their little fingers are heavier then the Prelates loins though they tell us their way is a friendly meek and social way we find it not they make us onely as Publicans and Heathens it should seem that all that they intended in the change of Church-Government was onely to slice the Diocesan into Parochiall Bishops and with him in Lucian To cut out the old useless Moons into fine new Stars every one of which claim the same influence and dominion over the people which the Prelates did 'T is a trouble to us to hear them inveigh against Hereticks and Schismaticks against the Novatian and Donatists of old when they walk in their steps maintaine their principles and espouse their quarrels We are told by the Church Historians That the doctrine against mixt-communion was a brat begotten by Novatus nurst up by Lucifer and Audius but it grew not till Donatus became its foster-Father then indeed it flourisht and spread amain till St. Austin by his judicious and clear opposition did banish it that and the subsequent Ages the Anabaptists of the last age called it back into Germany Quod aruit in se refloruit in illis they grafted upon the old stock and wanted nothing of the Donatists but to be called so Now amongst other of their dangerous and erroneous principles Bullinger notes this for one of the chief De doctrinâ caenae scrupulose quaerunt Anabaptistae quorum causâ caena dominica sit instituta They were nice and scrupulous and inquisitive concerning the Lords Supper conluding it was only to be given to the Saints and concluding the Saints to their own folds This is the direct practise of the Scottish and English Presbytery because the Parliament formerly and now his Highness in their wisdom and prudence have so blunted the edge of their secular power that they cannot hurt us with that they fly to their religious shifts and what David said of Goliah's sword surely they say of the holy Sacrament There 's none like unto that no engine so likely to teach us obedience and to give them the soveraignty as that They impale the supper of Christ to their own inclosures and as absolute Judges of all communicants keep back all persons that have not their Shiboleth ready that will not fall down and worship that Idol which they have set up The Aegyptians were hard Taskmasters to expect the children of Israel should make Bricks and make straw too to require the same number of bricks without materials to make them of this is something like the severity of our new Masters they censure for not doing that which they render to us impossible If we come not to the Lords Supper we must be excommunicate and they will not permit us to come because we are ignorant or scandalous or prophane and 't is proof enough we are so because we are too stout to fall down and worship their imaginations T is a trouble to us that men who impropriate to themselves the name of Saints and would have the world to think them the onely Christians should be so far from that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that meekness and sweetnesse of the Gospel that they are still of the old legall spirit to eradicate and destroy all that are not of their way Instead of sweetning and indearing the spirits of men that they may come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved they irritate and imbitter them by their two bold judging in private and by their fierce and severe censures in publick as if indeed it were their work to deliver them up unto Satan These things have forc'd us contrary to our own dispositions and inclinations to appear in publick nor only for our own vindication but in defence of Ecclesiastical and civil constitutions well hoping that these mean indeavours will encourage some worthy and learned Champions to take up Arms for the defence of that cause which we love what we have done quale quale sit what ever it be inasmuch as in the sincerity of our hearts we profess 't is done sine ullo studio contentionis without any pleasure or delight in contention but onely for the love of truth we hope our good God will give it a more gracious success and good men will give it a more charitable reception Errata sic Corrigenda PAge 81. line 25. for whereas read whereat p. 82 l. 2 these r. those p. 83 l. 10 Answer as it is to r. Answer it is to be ibid. l. 16 pray r. pay p. 84 l. 32 See r. So. p. 85 l. unaninous r. unanimous p. 87 l. 24 referring r. restoring p. 88 l. 13. examination r. excommunication Ih the Preface p. 3. l. 30. for I r. In. At the first Classe at Manchester Septem 8th 1657. IN pursuance of an Order of the last Provincial the first Classe doth humbly represent to this Assembly their apprehensions in the case to them propounded in a draught prepared for the several Congregations belonging to their own Association if it shall be approved of by this Assembly and which they do wholely submit to their Judgments It being represented to this Classe and much complained of and offence being taken That in the several Congregations if not all belonging to the Association there are many persons of all sorts that are members of Congregations and publickly enjoy several priviledges as the hearing of the Word prayers of the Church and baptizing of their children and satisfaction for injuries done unto them That yet live in a total and sinfull neglect of the Lords Supper that are scandalous and offensive in their lives drunkards unclean persons swearers Sabbath-breakers neglecters of Family-duties that will not subject themselves to the present government of the Church but live as lawless persons out of their rank and order and there are sundry that are grosly ignorant in the main points of Christian Religion These are to give notice that this Classe laying these things to heart and much grieved for them do publish and make known 1. That every Minister belonging to this Association shall set apart one or two dayes or more of the week dayes in every moneth for the catechizing of the several families belonging to their respective Congregations and for the information of the ignorant in those families and that the families to be catechized on each of such dayes set apart for that purpose have notice the Lords day before to meet the Ministers either at the Church or Chappel or the Ministers house or some other house within the Congregation that may be convenient for the neighboring families to meet at that shall be appointed for such a day as may be judged meetest by the several Ministers 2. That notice shall be taken of all persons that forsake the publick Assemblies of the Saints and constantly turn their backs of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper 3. That like notice shall be taken of all scandalous persons 4. That they

sufficient ground for so doing Wee are sure also That Whitaker de Conciliis questione quintâ and Chamierus in his Panstratiâ de oecumenico Pontifice ubi de Authoritate Papae in Ecclesiâ cap. 13. cap. 14. And generally all our Protestant Divines against the Papists alledging the Texts above-mentioned and others do prove abundantly that in the sense declared the Pope is to be subject to a general Council wherein also sundry Papists do concurr with them And questionless if in the time of Augustine who was no contemner of Synods Councils any in this sense had declared that they would not have submitted their apprehensions to their judgment hee would have cried out against them as well as against the Donatists O impudentem vocem And we hope when you have weighed the matter better you will not in this sense see any reason to refuse to submit either your sense and apprehensions of our Paper or what you may publish as your own private Judgments in other matters about Religion to the Judgment of a general Council supposing it might be had Wee have now done with your Preface and come to the matter it self wherein you professe 1. To joyn with us in a deep sense of the several grosse sins and errors of the times desiring earnestly to mourn first for your own sins next for the sins of others c. And here wee do heartily pray that neither wee nor you may any of us condemn our selves either by professing our sorrow for what sins we may practise or by refusing to help forward the good that we professe to allow of but may testifie the truth of our sorrow for our own and other mens sins by suitable endeavors to reform what is amisse in our selves and helping forward every one in his place the reformation of others 2. In the next place you say You are also sensible with us that there are sundry persons grosly ignorant in the main points of Christian Religion And if so wee hope you will acknowledg that where after the injoying of plenty of Preaching and the publick Catechizing that hath been used for many years together and much more where there hath been lesse of this means many continue grosly ignorant in the main points of Religion it is at least not to be condemned in such Ministers as shall be willing to take the pains by private Catechizing to instruct such persons This course being to the Ministers a matter of pains onely and that hereupon where the publick Catechizing attains not its desired end the private may be good and usefull that so poor souls perish not for lack of knowledg 3. Lastly You hope That wee with you are sensible and grieved though you say wee do not mention them for the grosse errors in judgment and damnable Doctrine of many who have rent themselves into as many several Heresies as they have into Sects and Schisms You may perceive by the title of our Paper that it was a representation of our apprehensions to the Provincial Assembly in the Case to us propounded by the said Provincial and what that was wee shall particularly declare anon although by what wee say had been complained of and represented unto us it might be gathered and therefore wee were chiefly to apply our selves to that which was therein our main work and businesse That the grosse and damnable errors that the loosnesse of these times have brought forth are to be bewailed if it were possible with tears of blood is most freely to be confessed And whether wee lay them not to heart in some poor measure God the searcher of all hearts hee knows as what complaints have been made of these by the members of this Classis both in their prayers and preaching men can witnesse and likewise what testimonies have been given to the truth of Jesus Christ and against the errors of the times subscribed with their hands and published to the world though therein but concurring with the rest of their Reverend Brethren in this Province in the Province of London and other Counties of the Land posterity may reade when wee are in our graves But as to the most of the Congregations belonging to this Classis the great businesse to be looked after was the use of our best indeavors for the informing of the ignorant and the reforming of the scandalous the numbers of these being great and of those that are so grosly erroneous as to maintain damnable doctrines and whereof you professe your selves to be so sensible very inconsiderable in comparison of the former and in sundry of our Congregations if not in most blessed be God for it not any at all that wee know of And therefore there was not that reason to make any such expresse mention of these as of the former although in our Paper wee were not herein neither altogether silent as will after appear Having professed your agreement with us thus farr yo go on to declare your selves That touching the way of informing the ignorant and reforming the wicked and erroneous you shall not much dissent And 1. You say For the Information and instruction of the ignorant by way of Catechizing before they be admitted to the Sacrament the course by us published provided you say it be in publick little differeth from the Order prescribed by the Church of England and other Reformed Churches abroad before any be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper That all Children and others so many as it is fit to instruct after that manner be publickly catechized is that which we heartily wish had been were more generally practised in our own Church at home as it is practised by the Reformed Churches abroad And certainly had the publick catechizing of Children and others been more generally and constantly practised there had not been that cause to complain of the grosse ignorance of sundry persons of ripe years and some of them governours of Families as now there is Wee do also understand you by what you do here expresse that you judg it not meet that the grosly ignorant should be admitted to the Lords Supper in that you seem to approve of the practice of the Reformed Churches abroad as of our own at home in taking course to inform the ignorant before they admit them to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper And therefore wee see not how you can in reason deny but there ought to be an examination and trial of all persons before they be admitted to the Lords Supper that so the grosly ignorant may not be admitted as they might be if all promiscuously were admitted without any trial at all But whereas in this concession about catechizing you have a Proviso that it be in publick wee do not see why you should so limit it if it be confessed that it is necessary that the ignorant should be informed and that catechizing is an usefull means to attain that end You know how it would dash sundry knowing persons to be