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A10777 Certe[n] godly, learned, and comfortable conferences, betwene the two reuerende fathers, and holye martyrs of Christe, D. Nicolas Rydley late Bysshoppe of London, and M. Hughe Latymer sometyme Bysshoppe of Worcester, during the tyme of their emprysonmentes. Whereunto is added. A treatise agaynst the errour of transubstantiation, made by the sayd reuerende father D. Nicolas Rydley. M.D.LVI. Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555.; Latimer, Hugh, 1485?-1555. aut; Ridley, Nicholas, 1500?-1555. Brief declaracion of the Lordes Supper. aut 1556 (1556) STC 21048; ESTC S115941 68,037 134

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23. Euen as we call euerie good fryday the daye of Christes passion and euerie Easter day the daie of Christes resurrection When in verie dede there was but one daie wherin he suffered and one daie wherein he rose And why doe we then call them so which are not so in dede but because they are in like time ād course of the yeare as those dais were wherin those things wer done Was Christ saeth S. Austin offred any more but once and he offred hīself And yet in a sacramente or representation not onely euery solempne feast of Easter but also euery daie to the people he is offered For if sacramentes had not some similitude or likenes of those things wherof they be sacramentes they could in no wise be sacramētes And for their similitudes and likenes commēly they haue the names of the thinges wherof they bee sacramentes Therfore as after a certaine maner of spech the sacramente of Christes bodie is Christes bodie the sacramente of Christes bloud is Christes bloud so likewise the sacrament of faith is faith c. After this maner of speache as S. Augustine techeth in his questions Super Leuiticum et contra adimantum Question 57. it is sayed in scripture that seuen eares of corne be seuen yeares seuen kyne be seuen yeares and the rocke was Christe and bloud is the soule The whiche laste saiynge saieth S. Austen in his booke contra adimantum is vnderstanded to be spoken in a signe or figure for the Lorde himselfe did not sticke to saie This is my bodie when he gaue the signe of his bodie Cap. 13. For we muste not considre in sacramentes saieth S. Augustine in an other place what they be but what they do signifie Contra Maximium lib. ca. 22. For they be signes of things being one thing in themselues and yet signifiyng an other thing For the heauenly breade saieth he speakinge of the sacramentall breade by some maner of speach is called Christes bodye when in verye dede it is the sacrament of the bodye c. What can be more plaine or more clearely spoken then are theis places of S. Augustine before rehersed if men were not obstinately bent to mainteyne an vntrewth and to receiue nothing what so euer doth sett it fourth Yet one place more of S. Augustine will I alledge which is verie cleare to this purpose that Christes naturall bodye is in heauen and not here corporally in the sacrament and so lett him depart In his 50. Tract 50. in Ioan. Treatyse which he writeth vppon Ihon̄ he teacheth plainly and clearlie howe Christ being both God and man is both here after a certaine maner and yet in heauē and not here in his naturall bodye and substaunce which he tooke of the blessed virgine Marie speking thus of Christ and saing By his diuine maiestye by his prouidence by his vnspeakable and inuisible grace that is fulfilled which he spake Behold I am with yow vnto the ende of the worlde But as concerning his fleash whiche he tooke in his incarnation as towching that which was born of the virgine as concerning that which was apprehended by the Iewes and crucified vppon a tree and taken downe from the crosse lapped in lynen clothes and buryed and rose agayn and appeared after his resurrecton as coocerning that fleash he sayed Ye shall not euer haue me with yow why so For as concerning his fleashe he was conuersaunt with his disciples 40. dayes and they accompanying seing and not following him he went vpp into heauen and is not here By the presence of his diuine maiestie he did not depart as concerning the presence of his diuyne maiestie we haue Christ euer with vs but as concerning the presence of his fleash he said truly to his disciples ye shall not euer haue me with yow For as concerning the presence of his fleashe the church had him but a fewe dayes nowe yt holdeth him by fayth thowgh it seeth him not Thus much S. Augustine speketh repeting one thing so ofte and all to declare and teach howe we should vnderstand the maner of Christes being here with vs which is by his grace by his prouidence and by his diuine nature and howe he is absent by his natural bodie which was born of the virgine Marie dyed and rose for vs and is ascended into heauē and ther sitteth as is in tharticles of our faith on the right hand of god and thense and from none other place saith S. Augustine shall comme on the latter daye to iudge the quicke and the dead At the which daye the righteous shall then lift vpp their heades and the lighte of godes truth shall so shine that falsehood and errors shal be putte to perpetuall confusion Righteousnes shall haue the vpper hand and trewth that daie shall beare awaie the victorie all the Enemyes therof quyte ouerthrowen to be troden vnder foote for euermore O Lord Lord I beseach the hast this daye thē shalt thow be glorifyed with the glorye dewe vnto thy holy name and vnto thy diuine maiestie and we shall singe vnto the in all ioye and felicitee laude and prayse for euermore Here now wold I make an end for methink S. Augustine is in this matter so full ād playne and of that authoritye that it should not neade after this his declaration being so firmely grownded vppon goddes word and so well agreing with other awncyene awthours to bring in for the confirmation of this matter anye moe And yet I sayed I wold alledge three of the Latyne church to testefye the truthe in this cause Nowe therfore the last of all shal be Gelasius Gelasius which was a Busshop of Rome but one that was Busshopp of that Sea before the wicked vsurpation and Tyrannye therof spredde and brast owt abroade into all the worlde For this man was before Bonifacius yea ād Gregory the first In whose daies both corruption of doctrine and tyrannicall vsurpatiō did chiefly growe and had the vpper hand Gelasius in an Epistle of the two natures of Christ contra Eutichen writeth thus The sacramentes of the bodie and bloud of Christ which we receue are godly thinges wherby and by the same we are made partakers of the diuīe nature ād yet neuertheles the substaunce or nature of the breade and wyne doth not departe or go awaye Note thes wordes I beseach yow and cōsyder whether any thing can be more playnlye spoken then theis wordes be against the error of Transubstantiation which is the grownd and bitter roote whervppon springeth all the horrible errours before rehersed Wherfore seing that 〈◊〉 falsehood hereof doth appeare so manyfestly and by so many wayes so plainely so clearelie and so fullye that no man nedeth to be deceiued but he that will not see or will not vnderstand Let vs all that doo loue the truth embrase yt and forsake the falsehed for he that loueth the truth is of god and the lacke of the loue therof is the cause why God suffereth men to fall into errours and to perish therin yea and as S. Paule saith why he sendeth vnto them illusyons that they beleue lyes vnto their owne condemnatyon because sayth he they loued not the truthe This truth no dowbt is Goddes word for Christ him self sayth vnto his Father Thy word is truthe the loue and light wherof Almightye God heauenlye father giue vs and lighten it in owr hartes by his holye Spiryte throwghe Iesus Christ our Lorde AMEN Faultes escaped in printing and to be corrected as foloweth The 3. leafe pag. 1.21 lyne hym helfe reade himselfe In the seconde page 9. lyne ignoranee reade ignorance The 5. leafe pag. 1. lib. 6. trew wor reade trew worde The 7. leafe pag. 1. li. 9. phaatasticall reade phantasticall The 13. leafe pag. 1. li. 13. that is daungerouse reade that it is daungerouse The 16. leafe pag. 2. lin 19. te remayne reade to remayne The 18. leafe pag. 1. laste lyne maye bones reade marye bones The 21. leafe pag. 2. lin 25. pophetes reade prophetes The 24. leafe pag. 1. li. 26. thinke thinke putte forthe th one thinke The 50. lea pag. 2. li. 20. Christes reade Christe The 53. lea pag. 1. lin 6. whrein reade wherin The 55. lea pag. 2. li. 12. misterers reade misteries The 62. leafe pag. 2. li. 2 as none hath done hiterto before hym adde therūto Neither yet anie other Catholike man after hym
church and beinge so gathered in the name of Christe they haue a promesse off the gyfte and guydinge of his spirite into all truthe But that anie such counsell hath at anie tyme allowed the masse such a one as ours was of late in a straunge tounge and stuffed with so manie absurditees errours and superstitions that I vtterly denye 2. Cor. 6. and I affirme it to be impossible For like as ther is no agreement betwixe lyghte and darknesse betwixe Christe and Belial so surely superstition and the syncere Religion of Christe will worship and the pure worshippinge of godde such as godde requireth of his Ioan. 4. that is in spirite ād truth can neuer agree together But ye will saye wher so greate a Companie is gathered together it is not credible but ther be two or three gathered in the name of Christe I answer If ther be one hundreth goode and two hūdreth badde forasmoche as the decrees and ordinances are pronounced accordinge to the greater numbre of the multitude of voyces what can the lesse numbre of voices auayle It is a knowne thinge and a commē prouerbe Often tymes the greater parte A prouerbe ouercommeth the Better As touching general counseils H. Laty. at this present I haue no more to say thē you haue sayd Only I refer you to your own experience to thinke of our cōtry parlaments and conuocations how and what ye haue there seen and heard The incōstancie of the Englissh parlamentes ād conuocations The more part in my time did brīg furth the sixe articles for thē the king wold so haue it being seduced of certē Afterward the more part did repel the same our goode Iosias willing to haue it so The same articles now again alas another greater but wurse part hath restored O what an vncertaintie is this But after this sort most commonly are mans procedings God be mercifull vnto vs. Who shall deliuer vs from such tormēts of mind Deathe the best phisition to the faithful Therfore is death the best physitiō but vnto the faithful whom she together and at once deliuereth frō all grieffes You must thinke 〈◊〉 this written vpon this occasiō because you woulde needes haue your paper blotted Anton. obiect 9. Yf the matter shoulde go thus that in generall counsailes menne shoulde not stande to the more numbre of the whole multitude I meane of them whiche ought to geue voices then shoulde no certaine rule bee lefte vnto the churche by the whiche controuersies in waightie matters might bee determined but it is not to bee beleued that Christe woulde leaue his churche destitute of so necessarie a helpe and sauegarde N. Ryd Ansvu. Ephes. 5. Christe who is the moste louinge spouse of his espoused the church who also gaue himselfe for it that he mighte sainctifie it vnto himselfe did geue vnto it abundantlye all thinges which are necessarie to saluacion but yet so that the churche shoulde declare it selfe obediente vnto him in all thinges and kepe it selfe within the boundes of his commaundementes and further not to seke any thing whiche he teacheth not as necessarie vnto saluacion Nowe further for determination of all controuersies in Christes religion Luc. 16. Christe himselfe hath left vnto the church not only Moses and the Prophetes Esa. 8. whome he willeth his church in all doutes to go vnto and aske counsell at but also the gospelles and the reste of the bodie of the newe testamente in the whiche whatsoeuer is harde in Moses and the prophetes whatsoeuer is necessarie to be knowen vnto saluation is reueled and opened So that nowe wee haue no neede to saie who shall clime into heauen Rom. 10. or who shall go downe into the depth to tell vs what is needfull to be done Christ hath done both and hath commended vnto vs the worde of faith whiche also is aboundantly declared vnto vs in his worde writtē so that hereafter if wee walke earnestly in this waie to the ser ching out of the trueth it is not to be doubted but throughe the certaine benifite of Christes spirite Luke 11. which he hath promised vnto his we may finde it and obtaine euerlastinge life Shoulde mēne aske counsell of the dead for the liuing saieth Esaie Esai 8. Let thē go rather to the law and to the testimonie et c. Christe sendeth them that bee desierouse to knowe the trueth vnto the scriptures saiynge Iohn 5. search the scriptures I remembre a like thing well spoken of Hierome Hieron in 23. Math. Ignoraunce of the scriptures is the mother and cause of al erroures and in another place as I remembre in the same authoure The knoweledge of the scripturs is the fode of euerlasting life But nowe me thinketh I enter into a verie broade sea in that I beginne to shewe either oute of the scriptures them selues or oute of the aunciente writers how muche the holy scripture is of force to teache the trueth of oure religion But this is it that I am nowe aboute that Christe wold haue the church his spouse in all doubtes to aske counsel at the word of his father writtē ād faithfully lefte and cōmēded vnto it in boeth testamētes the old and the newe Neither do we reede that Christ in any place hath laiede soo greate a burthen vpon the members of his spouse that he hath commaūded them to go to the vniuersall churche Rom. 15. What soeuer thinges are written saieth Paule are written for oure learninge And it is true that Christ gaue vnto his churche some Apostels some Prophetes some Euangelistes Ephe. 4. some shepards and teachers to the edifiynge of the sainctes till wee all come to the vnitie of faithe et c. But that all menne should meete together oute of all partes of the worlde to define of the articles of our faith I neither finde it commaunded of Christe nor written in the worde of God H. Latim There is a diuersitie betwixt thinges pertaining to God or faith and Politique or Ciuile matters For in the firste we muste stande onely to the scriptures whiche are able to make vs all perfecte and instructed vnto saluation 2. Tim. 3. if they bee well vnder standed And they offre thēselues to be wel vnderstanded onelye to them whiche haue good willes and geue themselues to studie and praier Neither are there any menne lesse apt to vnderstand them then the prudent and wise men of the worlde But in the other that is in Ciuile or Politique matters often tymes the magistrates doe tolerate a lesse euil for auoiding of a greater as they which haue this saiynge ofte in their mouthes Better an inconuenience then a mischieffe and it is the propertie of a wise man saieth one to dissemble many thinges And he that canne not dissemble can not rule In which saiyngs they bewraie themselues that they doe not earnestely weighe what is iuste what is not Wherfore forasmuch as mās lawes if it