live in the life of immortality which was made manifest in the Saints of old so that the same light life spirit and power is now made manifest among the Saints and to the truth of this these people can set their seals who are made partakers of the same according to their measure Enq. Have they then revelations now by the same Spirit Or is there any miracles wrought among them by the same power Res. Yea they have revelations by the same spirit which revealed the myâ—teries of God in former ages to the Saints for if they had not revelations how should they come to the knowledg of the Father whom none knows but by the revelation of the Son and by the mighty power of God miracles hath been wrought amongst them and miraculous things hath been brought to pass in a mystery which is hid from all vulterous eyes living and they are privy to these things who are witnesses of the power of God which hath wrought them but from scoffers scorners dispisers and wonderers these things are concealed Enq. But such would have a sign that they might believe and be convertâ—d also would they not Res. Yea but none must be given them but that of Ionah for they are of the adulterous generation that seeketh one saying Shew us a sign or work us a miracle that we may believe that your God is the living God and that he hath sent you c. Now they that will not believe and be converted without a sign would no more believe be converted if one were shewed them then they would have been perswaded to have repented by one that had been raised up from the dead when they rejected Moses and the Prophets Luke 16. 31. Enq. But thou spake of miracles being wrought among these people do they all work miracles Is the gift of prophesie given to all Or have they diversity of gifts Res. They do not all work Miracles neither do they all prophesie for they have differences of administrations but the same Lord diversities of operations but the same God who hath given to one by the Spirit the Word of Wisdom to another the Word of Knowledge by the same Spirit to another discerning of Spirits so that they have received diversities of gifts but the same Spirit Enq. Have not every one of them receivedâ— according to their ability and are they not in several states and conditiâ—ns Res. Yea some of them have received one talent some two some five and they boast not of that which they have because they have received it from him who is the giver of every good and perfect gift their conditions are also divers for there are fathers young men and babes among them and some there are who do not yet witness the birth brought forth which is begotten by the immortal Word of life noâ—v he that is the strongest among men will bear with the weakest and he that is the greatest among them will become servant to the least and when one among them is overtaken with a fault they that are spiritual doth restore such an one with the Spirit of meekness for sometimes they that are weak among them doth that which the witness of God in them alloweth not to the witness they consent wch convinceth them of the evil that they do through weakness which their soul hates and a law in their members they find which warreth against the law of their mind by which they are somtimes brought into captivity to the law of sin so that they cry out as Paul did in his warfare O wretched man that I am c. yet herein they find comfort that with their minds they serve the law of God though with their flesh in which no good thing dwelleth the law of sin these are such as are not yet come through the law nor to the end of the warfare but finds daily the flesh lusting against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh Enq. Well is not that a good condition Did ever any Saint come further in this life Or are any of these people made free from the law of sin by any other law Res. The time of the warfare must be known and passed through by as many as comes to be made free through him who is the end of the Law for righteousness sake and he that is faithful to the Lord in the light which brings to the warfare the same will bring him through the warfare yea to the Law of the spirit of life by which some of the people are made free from the law of sin and death in Christ Jesus and this the Saints witnessed in whom the righteousness of the Law was fulfilled through which they are come unto him who is the end of the Law and the Prophets by whom they are made free from the Law that being dead wherein they were held and they become dead to it by the body of Christ which was made a curse for them to redeem them from the curse of the Law so that they are now no more under the Law but under Grace Enq. But what do they expect to be perfect or free from sin in this life What ground have they for this in Scripture Was such a state ever commanded or witnessed by any of whom the Scripture doth speak Res. That which is perfect is manifested in them and by that they wait to be perfected for perfection is that which they earnestly press after and have hope to attain unto the fulness of it for they do believe that God would not command and require that of men which could not possibly be attained for he that said Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father which is in heaven is perfect he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified and among such as were sanctified and perfected for ever did Paul preach wisdom their perfection he wished who had not then attained to it but were pressing after it as many of these people are now who expecteth to be made free from sin as the Saints were Rom. 6. 18. and by the blood of Jesus they hope to be cleansed from all sin that being throughly sanctified and cleansed with the washing of water through the Word they might be presented to him a glorious people not having spot or wrinkle nor any such thing but that they might be holy perfected for ever but this seems incredible unto many who are not yet come to the godly sorrow for sin which worketh repentance but these people whose eyes the Lord hath opened do see a possibility in the thing they are not without faith but that they shall obtain it and therefore go they on unto it and will proceed if the Lord permit who hath manifested that in them which is perfect by which he will bring them and hath brought some of them to the perfection of purity and to the beauty of holiness where Halelujah is sung unto the Most High Enq. The Scripture I
madâ— partakers of in silent meetings in the vvhich they vvitness the workings of the povver of God vvhich raiseth the life thaâ—â— is immortal in them upon vvhich theâ— feed and by which they come to be nourished up unto eternal life so that the motions of the pure Spirit of life they feeâ— daily which is not obtained by bodily exercise vvhich profiteth little neither by self-performances vvhich availeth not but by waiting in the light of life there are the motions of the Spirit of the Lord known and there is the sacred devotion which is acceptable unto the Lord and that devotion vvhich is out of the light is not sacredâ— but imperfect and unholy Enq. Thou speakest so promisâ—uously when thou speakest of the light of life that I do not comprehend thee wilt thou therefore tâ—ll me if it be the same light of which these people speak so much and shew me what that â—â—ight is and where that I may find a measure â—of it for I would willingly comprehend it Res. If my words be obscure and promiscuous to thee when I speak of the light of life it is because thy understanding is dark for my words are words of plainness and of truth yet nevertheless I shall endeavour to speak to thy capacity and understanding that I be not as a Barbarian to thee that so our reasoning together might not be in vain neither would I willingly multiply words to no purpose which doth not tend to edification for there is enough of that abroad in the world wherefore let us come to the thing it self viz. To the light of which I spake vvhich is the self-same of which these people speak and that of vvhich they speak is the same that Iohn the Baptist bore witness of and the same of which the Prophets by whom God spake unto our Fathers prophesied and foretold and he who is the light of the vvorld acknovvledged it vvhen he vvas come into the vvorld vvhose Name vvas Immannel vvhich by interpretation is God vvith us they that desire to see the presence of the Lord to be vvith them they must come to the light vvhich cometh from him vvhose Name is called Immanuel and they that believe and vvalk in his light shal come to have the light of life a measure oâ— which thou hast in thy conscience which shews thee thy sin transgression which separates from God and if thou turn thy mind to it thou wilt find it a swift witnesâ— against thy lusts and earthly desires and vile affections and against all manner oâ— evil whatsoever But this I would have thee to know that it is in vain for thee to go about to comprehend it for it shineth in darkness reproveth the works of darkness but the darkness doth nor comprehend it Enq. Is there not great contention and much dispute betwixt these People and busie-minded men about the light which I suppose is tedious and weariâ—om to this people is it not Res. Yea for they meet with many of these busieminded men that seek to intrude into the knowledge of high things who by their sensual wisdom seek to comprehend this incomprehensible Light and the more they strive the more they puzzle themselves and although they be puzled confounded in themselves yet they wil not cease from propounding frivolous questions about the light many of which have been fully answered according to the folly of these unruly and vain talkers lest that they should be wise in their own conceit but the truth is these people vvill many times avoid the questions and geneologies of these unreasonable men because they see them to be unprofitable and vain and that doth very much torment them Enq. Why are they not given to disputing for if the truth be on their sides they might thorow disputing overcome their opposers and instruct them that wilfully oppose themselves and so do much good thereby might they not Res. There is so much disputing in the World vvhich is altogether unprofitable that it is a mercy that they are no more inclined to it for what good can there be brought forth by it seeing that by the generality of Disputers the holy Scripture is not a little wrested perverted the Name of God too much dishonored and many precious hearts disturbed grieved and wearied by the tedious disputing which is among men and by reason of it much strife and contention is brought forth in which these people have no pleasure nor contentment for they have not so learned Christ neither do they seek by way of disputing to overcome their opposors whom they with meekness do instruct when they wilfully oppose themselves but to that of God in the consciences of their opposers they seek to be made manifest that by that they might be overcome which will convince them of the Truch which these people hath on their sides by turning people to that of God in them they do much good for as men come to be brought to that they come to be brought off from disputing to the life of that which Disputers dispute upon Enq. It is very true the Scriptures are much wrested by Disputers but pray thee tell me what do these pâ—ople hold of the holy Scriptureâ— it is reported they do deny them is that true Res. No they do not deny them but doth read peruse them above all books and they do affirm that they are able to make a man wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus and that they which were given by inspiration of God are profitable for Doctrines for Reproof for Correction for Instruction in Righteousness c they also hold them to be a true Declaration of those things which were most surely believed among the Saints of old who were eye-witnesses and some of them Ministers of the Word of God of which the holy Scriptures do testifie And further they say that the holy Scripture was written for their learning that they through patience and comfort of the Scripture should have hope this with much more they affirm of the Scripture the life of which they witness manifested in them Enq. All this is good but is there any man now that hath the same Spirit the â—postles had Or is the same light life and power now to be enjoyed which the Saints in former ages witnessed Res. I tell thee whosoever hath not the same spirit by which the Apostles were guided and lead they are none of his whom the Apostles served and owned to be their Lord and Law-giver Jesus Christ who is the same to day yesterday and for ever they that are his of his Fold and of his Priesthood they have unity in his light in which the Apostles had fellowship they are lead and guided by the same spirit that revealed things which had been hid from all ages and generations unto the Apostles and Saints and they are preserved in that power which gave the Saints victory over the world and they
suppose is much wrested about that point is it not Res. Yea very much For they that are against it heapeth up all the Scripture-places that possibly they can of the Saints failings of their expressions spoken in the time of their warfare and places of Scripture they produce which was spoken of men in their unconverted estate and these Scriptures they wrest pervert and doth add their meanings and conceivings unto them therefore it is that thousands hath so much to say against that point which they will as earnestly plead against as any other particular thing that is in dispute among men at this day Enq. What such men are they that do wrest the Scripture and differs so much in their inâ—â—rpretatiâ—ns which these People cryes so much against Res. They are such as are unstable and unlearned who errs not knowing the Spirit nor the guidings and leadings thereof but are truce-breakers and incontinent who seek to subvert whole Countries by their delusions which people are led into by giving heed unto their false interpretations which they give of the holy Scripture which is of no private interpretation and they are such as gain-say the truth being pâ—oud and presumptuous doting about questions and strife of words unruly and vain talkers such as teach things which they ought not for filthy lucre sake these such like do these people cry out against for each of them do wrest and pervert the Scripture to their own ends seeking thereby to confirm their erronious opinions which are contrary to Scripture and contrary to Truth so that these people have good reason to testifie against them being that the Name of God is so much dishonored by them and the holy Scripture sâ—â—â—taordinarily wrested among them by the different interpretations thereof Enq. How dâ— these people understand the Scripture Is there not strife and contenton aâ—mong them about the meaning of it Res. By the same spirit by which theâ— were guided that spoke forth the Scripture do these People understand it every one oâ— them according to their measures and the light in which they walk doth give theâ—â—â—he same understanding in the holy Scripâ—â—ure which they had that spake forth 〈◊〉 â—cripture although many among them 〈◊〉 â—rt of so large a measure as the Authors the holy Scripture had yet that underâ—â—ding which God hath given them by holy Spirit is the same which holy men God had in its measure so that they far from striving and contending about meaning thereof among themselves for 〈◊〉 which the light opens to one is not â—tradicted by them that are in the light â— therefore they are at peace among â—â—selves and in unity one with another Enq. It is reported of them that they go inâ—any Churches to disturb them and that â— speak before the Minister have ended and â—ieth themselves unruly in the time of his â—ed Devotion is this true 〈◊〉 'T is true some of them have gone inâ—any Congregations as Lambs among â—lves in obedience to the motions of the â—er of the Lord and in the Assembly 〈◊〉 have spoken that which was revealed â—hem while they stood by and he that â—ld have holden his peace who had first â—en left his matter in hand and cryed 〈◊〉 Constable or an Officer to take him â—y that begun to speak his Revelation 〈◊〉 the unruly speaker that should have â—en his peace and kept the people in orâ—â— beginning to be so â—urious and angry â—â—st the other this occasioned great disorder in the Congregation which 〈◊〉 have been prevented if the spirit of the Speaker had been subject to the spirit him that had the Revelation then mâ— the thing have been done decently anâ— order according to the rule of the 〈◊〉 â—stle I Cor. 14 30 32 40. And as toucâ— carrying of themselves unreverently 〈◊〉 is said of them because they do not their hat in the time of their Prayer join with them in their unholy devotiâ—â— which they are not free unto neither 〈◊〉 they bid them God speed because 〈◊〉 know that they are out of the Doctrinâ— Christ â— offering unacceptable sacrificeâ— which act these people will not be paâ—â—kers but for any of them to go purpoâ—â— with an intent to disturb any Congreâ—â— on I believe such a thing hath never enâ— into their thoughts for commonly 〈◊〉 they have gone upon service for the 〈◊〉 to such places it hath been in the crossâ— their own wills whose lives have beeâ— great danger in them houses called Câ—â—ches and much of their blood have 〈◊〉 spilt many bruises they have gotten most shamefully have they been intreaâ— handled in them places called Churcâ— by those that have resorted unto them this hundreds will witness and testifie 〈◊〉 â— been eye-witnesses of it â—nq It is a strange thing that they will not from such places then had they not better â—ill and quiet and molest none then so to â—ard their lives or at least to take other opâ—unities then when People are at Church â—es The thing is strange in the eyes of 〈◊〉 that they should so as it were haâ— their lives among unreasonable men seeketh to do them mischief but that â—er of the Lord by which they are moâ—o go to such places doth oftentimes â—culously preserve them and into his 〈◊〉 they commit their life who hath giâ—t them the which they could freely â—own for the truth's sake if therâ—unto were called Now if they should moâ—ny in their own wils by speaking their words to them they had better be still â—iet then to do so but if the Lord move 〈◊〉 to speak to any or to go to any place had better obey him then bear his â—emâ—nts for disobedience if the parâ—oken unto be one that cannot bear â—d Doctrine then will they be offended â—olested by him that speaketh like as â—ziah Amos 7. 12 13. was molested Amos and therefore would he have â—im to have fled into another Land â—ot to have prophesied at Bethel because it was the Kings Chappel and Court as now several there are 〈◊〉 would not have these people to come their Churches because the congregaâ—â—on is disturbed by them like as the Kiâ—â— Court Chappel was disturbed by mos and the Synagogues of the Jews Christ and the Apostles and many 〈◊〉 perswade them to the contrary but 〈◊〉 perswasions of such they do no more gard then Amos regarded the perswâ—ons of Amaziah Enq. What go they to Churches then cause Amos went to the Kings Chapâ— and because Christ and the Apostles wenâ— the Sâ—nagogues as their manner was Res. O no if they had no other grouâ— then were they but wilful imitators 〈◊〉 like unto the false Prophets who run wâ— the Lord had not sent them but these 〈◊〉 are moved by the same power 〈◊〉 moved Amos to go the Kings Chapâ— by the same power I say are they moâ— to go to steeple-houses other place bear testimony unto the same truth 〈◊〉 Amos held forth the same
power 〈◊〉 moved the Apostles to go into the Syâ— gogues of the Jews the same doth mâ— these people now to go into the meetâ— places of the Jews and Gentiles theâ— declare the powerful truth of God to them that have the form but not the power shewing unto them how they may come to find that which hath been lost viz the life and power of truth Enq. Wel but do they not know that tâ—ere are acts in force against Disturbers of Minisâ—â—rs put forth by our honourable Magistrates who wil not suffer godly Ministers to be diâ—turbed Res. Yea they know it well and do find â—t but rather then they will disobey the Lord they wil chuse to suffer by such acts as Shadâ—ach Mâ—shach and Abednego did â—ho disregarded the decree of Nebuâ—hadnezzer and would not worship the Golden Imagé which he had set up and â—hey who act by the vertue of these acts â—o say they have a Law by which they â—ught to suffer like as the Jews did conâ—erning that Law which they had by which they said Christ ought to die c. â—ut shew me out of the Scripture where â—ver any honourable Magistrates or any â—hat ruled for God made Acts to proâ—ect godly Ministers by the vertue of wchâ—he men that spoke unto them was to be â—ast into prison if they did it in their â—eeting-place had not godly Ministers â—lwayes Spiritual weapons to defend them withal and was not Peter Barnâ—bas Paul and Sâ—las godly Ministers whâ— suffered by the acts of the Magistrateâ— that upheld the chief Priests and werâ— they Honourable Magistrates or godlâ— Ministers who resisted these godly men whipt them and cast them into prison is it not to be feared that many whâ— are call'd honourable Magistrates do proâ—tect such Ministers as are persecutors anâ— oppressors of the servants of the Lord who lie in holes dungeons by vertue oâ— the acts which are made by imprudenâ— Magistrates to protect ungodly Ministers by whom the nations are deceived truâ—ly godly Ministers are ashamed of such the power by which they are upheldâ— Enq. Do these people contemn Authorâ— then as is commonly râ—porâ—ed of them 〈◊〉 are they Subject to the higher power like 〈◊〉 the Apostle commandeth us to be Res. That authority wchâ— is of God anâ— from him they do not contemn neitheâ— are they disobedient but subject to him that rules in this authority for God if hâ— exalt righteousness in the earth and be â— terror to evil doers and a praise to theâ— that do wel such a Magistrate they honoâ— in the Lord to the higher power theâ—iâ— soul es are subject in which the Magistrat rules who is Gods Minister of this power unto which their souls are subject they are not afraid neither are they subject because of wrath only but also for conscience sake for this they know that whosoever resisteth the power resisteth the Ordinance of God and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation Enq. But they do not honour Magistrates with their Hat and Knee as they ought to be honoured and that offends Magistrates that receives honour of one another Res. 'T is true they do not bow before them so as most men do neither have they freedom thereunto for the honor that pertains to a Magistrate consisteth not in such trifling things which are of no weight And I believe thou cannot produce one Scripture out of the whole Bible that wil prove that Magistrates ought to be honoured with Hat Knee that is but a meer complement vanity a foolish fashion of the world which wil pass away the non-performance of that doth but offend such Magistrates as receives honour one of another how can such beâ—ieve saith Christ mark if they be not yet come to believe who dare say that â—hey are Gods Ministers or that they rule â—or God these people wil rather offend them that believe not then that of God in their consciences which learneth them to seek that honour which cometh from God only before which humility doth go Enq. But hark It is not only said of them that they contemn authority and are not subject to Magistrates to which thou hast answered but also that they are against Gospelâ— Ministery are great railers against Ministâ—rys and their maintenance Is that true Res. Magistracy and Ministery they allow approve of the one I have shewed thee before the other I come unto and that is Ministry First I shall shew thee what Ministers and Ministry they own and what maintenance they allovv of that Ministers may have Secondly vvhat Ministers and Ministery they disovvn what maintenance they do not approve of First Such as are indued with povveâ—â— and wisdom from on high and called to the work of the Ministry immediately having received gifts from him that is ascended far above all Heavens who forâ—merly gave some Apostles some Prophets some pastors teachers for the perfectâ—ing of the Saints for the work of the Mâ—nistry c. And such as he now calleth chuseth who abide in his doctrine giveth that freely which they have received freely Such these people do own their Ministry but railing against any they do deny and Ministers that are so called and qualified as before-mentioned they do esteem very highly for their works sake alloweth them food raiment and all things that are convenient herewith are these Ministers contented even with that which they have of free gift from those unto whom they minister Spiritual things so in love peace and unity they live together thus it is with these people the ministers whom they do own Secondly the Ministers that they disown are such as runs when the Lord hath not sent them and do feed with the fat and cloath with the wool make a prey upon the people such as are called of men Master stands praying in the Synagogues teaching for doctrines the traditions of men who keep people ever learning never able to come to the knowledge of the truth who are out of the life of that which they preach to others by whom the holy Scrâ—ptures are wrested and traded 〈◊〉 who are coveâ—ous â—proâ—d heaâ—y and high mâ—â—ded having a â—orm of godlâ—ness 〈…〉 the power thereof such they disown to be Ministers of Christ who preach for hire and divine for money the love of which constraineth them to teach the people and they that wil not give them money or put into their mouthes they prepare war against them and compel them by suit of law and thus they rob their mintenance from poor people whose goods they will take away by force from such as hath nothing of them nor from them now al such greedy unreasonable pretended Ministers their robbed maintenance these people do deny disown neither can they pay them wages nor in no wise uphold themâ— Enq. Well but have they not such in their parishes to
whom the law of the land alloweth tythe whether do they pay them or suffer the penalty of the law the cruelty of such men Res. O alas The covetous hirelings they are so spread over the Nation that scarce either city or parish are free of them and truly volums might be filed of the sufferings of these harmless people which they undergo have undergone in that particular through the cruelty mercilessness of that unreasonable generation of greedy perverse priests whose blessings are cursed whose seed is corrupted for truly they have even made havock of the people who for conscience sake cannot pay tythe therefore have their goods been pitifuly spoiled as hath been pretty largely published to the shame confusion of these merciless cruel men but a book of remembrance is writ and their actions are upon record Enq. But are these people so simple that they will not go to Law with those that wrong them what is not the Law open and the Magistrates will do justice will they not Res. If thou observed Christs words wel thou would not cal them simple for not going to Law with their adversaries for did he not say if any man wil sue thee at the Law and take away thy Coat let him have thy Cloak also now they that walk in his light who spoke these words they abide in his doctrine when their adversary hath sued them recovered treble damage taketh away twice the worth of that which he recovered they resist not but bears it patiently knowing this that there is one that wil plead their cause to vvhom vengeance belongs and he will repay And although that the law be open yet they are not free to go to it For what said Paul to the â—orinthians did he not tell them that there was utterly a fault among them because they did go to law one with another why saith he do you not rather take wrong why do you not rather suffer your selves to be defrauded so that here thou may see it doth not become Saints to go to Law and that especially before them that are out of the truth for such Magistrates will connive at the sufferings of the oppressed not reprove the oppressors who ought by magistrates to be rebuked But there are some prudent understanding men that are much wearied with being so daily incumbred with the beggerly suits of these covetous priests against these harmless innocent people And some of the Magistrates are backvvard enough in doing Justice and too forward in fulfilling the desires of unjust men vvho deals unjustly with these people this is not unknovvn to some in authority whose bovvels are sometime moved with compassion to behold the many greivances and annoyances vvhich are daily renewed upon these that fear the Lord Enq. I suppose that Saints in former ages have suffered much by the untoward generation have they not Res. Yea yea a cloud of vvitnesses might be produced of the sufferings of the Saints some of which had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings of bonds and imprisonments some of them were stoned others sawn assunder others slain with the sword c. he that was a precious Saint a sufferer by the untoward generation he testified and said that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God further he said that they that will live godly in Christ Jesus must suffer persecution Enq. But these whom thou mentionest were comforted in the midest of their tribulations and sufferings are these people so Res. Yea they also are comforted in their tribulations that they are able to comfort them which are in trouble by the comfort wherewith they themselves are comforted of God for as the sufferings of Christ abound in them so their consolation also aboundeth by Christ of which all the opposers and adversaries in the world cannot deprive them of they may be bereaved of their goods separated from their friends and brethren be debarred of their liberty freedom by the power of their adversary but his power extendeth not so far as to deprive them of their peace in him which is their life and of the comfort and consolation which they receive from him and that they prefer above the whole world Enq. and how comes it that so many of them are cast into prisoâ— and some whipped and others banished from some places Is it for misdemeanour or for the truths sake Res. Thus it is many of them have been mov'd of the Lord to go to Steeple-houses wch are call'd churches to speak unto the priest people that which the Lord was pleased to lay upon them to declare it may be somtime before the priest had done and somtime after so some in authority being then present have forthwith sent them to prison for disturbing the congregation as they said it may be have caused them to be whip'd c. for this very particular hundreds have been put in prison several others have been cast into prison because they could not pay Tythe to the hireling Priests others because they could not swear others because they have not put off their Hats before Magistrates others for going to visit their friends that hath been in prison others for riding above five miles upon a first day to a meeting others for speaking a few words in a street or a market to people whom they have exhorted to fear the Lord others for speaking to â—ome upon the high way for such like â—hings as these are the most part of them 〈◊〉 if not all cast into prison and some of â—hem have been fined for standing coverâ—d before the Judge and hath laid above a â—ear or years in prison for non-paiment of the fine and some of them after they â—ave â—uffered imprisonment a certain time have been banished and sent away like â—agabonds more favour is shewed unto â—alefactors by many in authority then is â—fforded them and all this do they patiently suffer for righteousness sake Enq. It seems by thy relation of them they suffer much wrong do they not petition unto the powers of the earth for relief and make â—heir redress unto them in such causes Res. They cry unto them for Justice but to petition unto them as unto Gods they cannot in the least do it although many petitions have been put up against them but that doth not molest nor troubble them whose trust and confidence is in the Lord by whom they do expect to be delivered not by the arm of flesh their manifold greivances are not hid from the Lord who will arise and plead their cause and rebuke those that afflict them and severely punish those that do oppress them Enq. But in the mean time do they not seek to avenge themselves of their adversaries seeiâ—g they are now become a great body Res. O no they have no such thoughts for they have referred their cause wholly to the Lord to
whom vengeance belongeth and he will repay of whom they have learned to love their enemies to bless those that curse them to do good to those that hate them to pray for those which despitefully use them and persecute them and they are so far from avenging themselves that if one smite them on the one cheek they will turn the other And they look not upon the number of themselves to be any thing in reference to their redemption out of their hands who exercise Lordship over them For they know that by one the Lord is able to chase a thausand and by two to put ten thousand to â—light Enq Yea that is true yet nevertheless wil they not carry weapons for their own defence and for the defence of their Country Res. The weapons of their warfare are not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds casting down Imaginations and every high thought that exalteth it self against the Kingdom of God and only such weapons carry they and he that put them into â—â—eir hands is mighty enough to preserve â—â—em and their Country with whose arâ—ur they are always armed having their â—â—nes girt about with truth having on the â—est-plate of righteousness and the sheild 〈◊〉 faith wherewith they are able to quench 〈◊〉 the fiery darts of the wicked they â—ve also the helmet of Salvation and the â—ord of the Spirit which is the word oâ—â—od thus are they armed against their eneâ—â—es that seek to bereave them of their â—ace with God whom they only withâ—â—â—nd but violence to no man will they do â—at is contrary to the doctrine of their â—â—rd to whom they do commend themâ—â—â—ves Enq. I suppose by this declaration of them â—at they are a peaceable people But what 〈◊〉 they in life and conversation for by their â—its we must judge of them Res. My report or declaration of them 〈◊〉 true and the truth I speak lie not for 〈◊〉 have known them from a child or â—ce that I was a babe in Christ my â—ucation in the Lord hath been among â—em and for the space of several years I â—ave been daily conversant with them â—d in all this time I have found their life â—d conversation to be good honest and â—reproveable do but ask any conscientious man fearing God that knowâ— these people and thou shalt find that 〈◊〉 testimony of them will not contraâ—â— mine yea many of their opposers will 〈◊〉 knowledge that for their life converâ—â—tion they have nothing to accuse themâ— Enq. But it is said they are rude 〈◊〉 speech and useth the word Thee and 〈◊〉 particular persons is not that an unmanâ—â—ly and absurd thing in them Res. No it is the language of the 〈◊〉 Scripture and to use thou and thee 〈◊〉 a particular person is proper and 〈◊〉 unmannerly nor absurd for when 〈◊〉 Lord spake to Adam and Adam to hiâ—â— they used that language when 〈◊〉 spake to Pharoah Pharoah to him thâ—â—â— used that language when Paul spake to 〈◊〉 â—â—grippa and Agrippa to him they used 〈◊〉 language and it was not unmannerly 〈◊〉 absurd with them neither do we read 〈◊〉 it was then accounted rudeness of speeâ—â—â— And although that this seems so stranâ—â—â— to the men of this generation yet it is 〈◊〉 proper phrase of the Scripture and 〈◊〉 language of all them of whom we read 〈◊〉 the Scripture Enq. I have not observed that so 〈◊〉 before but now in their buying and selliâ—â—â— how do they do are they of as many 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 other men or keep they to yea or nay in â—â—eir communication Res. To yea and nay they keep knowing 〈◊〉 whatsoever is more cometh of evil 〈◊〉 when they have a commodity to sell â—â—ey set a reasonable price of it and do not â—act upon the people and when that â—ey buy a commodity they proffer a reaâ—â—nable Price for it for the which they â—â—ppose the party may well afford it and â—at which they judge to be the value of â—e thing and so in few words dispatchâ—h and thus they abide in the Doctrine 〈◊〉 their Lord who hath said Let your yea 〈◊〉 yea and your nay be nay for whatsoâ—er is more than these cometh of evil Enq. But men are so accustomed to many 〈◊〉 in their dealings one with another that should think men will scarce meddle with â—em in affairs if they will abate nothing of â—e price which they first set on their comâ—odity for that is most usuall among â—n Res. T is true it is usual among men to â—â—ter many needless words in their dealâ—gs and to swear many grievous Oathes â—ecause they will not trust one another â—â—t is not the manner of these People to â—o so neither have they freedom thereunâ—â— in the least whereupon some of their Cuâ—toms have absented from them 〈◊〉 season and have made tryal of others 〈◊〉 they not finding such â—idelity in others 〈◊〉 such just upright dealings by them 〈◊〉 have returned again to this people 〈◊〉 made further proof of them have fouâ— their Commodity to be good and substaâ—â—tial and well worth that which they gaâ— for it whereupon they have brought othâ—â— Customers with them acquainted theâ— with the condition oâ— the People that the would have so much as they asked and the they were not given to many words 〈◊〉 to the which the people in process of 〈◊〉 have well condescended so that now wheâ— they are known they are credited 〈◊〉 extraordinarily provoked by those thâ—â— know them to superfluity of words and 〈◊〉 they come to use men to that which theâ— have been little accustomed unto to 〈◊〉 to few words in their buying and selling Enq That is well done of them yet 〈◊〉 much against them for it is said they 〈◊〉 not speak to men upon the way but passe 〈◊〉 them without saluting of them neither 〈◊〉 they doff their hats to any which gives greâ—â— offence to many wherefore do they carry thâ—mâ—selves so uncivilly Res. When they have occasion to speaâ— to any man they speak unto him whâ—the◠〈◊〉 be upon the way or in the street or upâ—n the Market or in any other convenient â—lace but to salute men in a complementâ—ng way by doffing their hats unto them â—nd bowing before them and giving them â—attering Titles according to the custom â—nd manner of the world that they are 〈◊〉 free to do and that is a principal thing 〈◊〉 of the many which men have against â—hem although they honor all men in the â—ord without respect of persons and beâ—aveth themselves civilly towards all yet â—an doff their hat to none for that is an â—ct of as proud and uncivil persons as lives â—ho wil shew humility in that thing when â—hey are as proud in their heart as Hamanâ—as and will deride and scorn those that â—annot for conscience-sake do it and these â—re they that are offended when it is not â—one and carry themselves uncivilly to â—ch as
doth it not Enq. Well but it is a fashion which men â—ve and a token of civiâ— respect had they â—t better please men by conforming unto them 〈◊〉 this thing of small importance then to ofâ—nd them through abstaining from doing of it â—r we read that Paul became all to all unto 〈◊〉 Iews he became as a Iew c. Res. The fashions of this World will â—ass away but the Word of God endures for â—ver by which Word these people 〈◊〉 redeemed from the World so that theâ— cannot be conformable to it in its wayâ— worships customs and fashions all whiâ—â— will pass away and if they should seek 〈◊〉 please men then were they not the seâ—â—vants of Christ whose servants never 〈◊〉 such a token of civil respect as doffing 〈◊〉 the hat that we read of in the whole Scâ—â—pture and who dare call them his servanâ— that receive honor of men from their haâ—â— and are offended if it be not given theâ— surely they are not like unto him in the thing for he received not honor from meâ— neither did he seek it but said unto thoâ— that did How can ye believe that receiâ—â— honor one of another and seek not 〈◊〉 honor that cometh from God onely And although Paul became as a Jew uâ—â— to the Jews as without law to them thâ—â— were without law yea all things to all meâ— this he did for the Gospels sake not 〈◊〉 please men but that he might by all meaâ— save some therefore condescended he 〈◊〉 the simplicity in them speaking low thinâ—â— to their capacity and understanding the so by guile he might catch them and gaâ— or win them to the truth but who dare 〈◊〉 that he became an Idol-worshipper witâ— Idolaters If so how should he havâ— brought any from that Idolatry to have worshipped the living God Or who dare say that he became an opposer of Truth with opposers If so how should he have gained any of them to the truth but it was not so with Paul who shewed himselfe in all things approved of God â—n whose sight he commended himself to every mans conscience Enq. I am perswaded that if these People â—ere admitted to answer for theâ—selves upon â—ll occasions many would come to be satisfied 〈◊〉 things concerning them wherein they are 〈◊〉 inform'd Res. Oh yea but alas such reports are â—umored abroad of them by such as say â—eport and we will report it as is not fitâ—ng to be named among Christians and â—ese Reports being credited or regarded â—y simple people they become odious and â—espised among men and therefore is it â—at there is so much whooting and hissing 〈◊〉 them in the streets but if they might 〈◊〉 admitted to make their own defence in â—e presence of prudent and understanding â—en having their accusers face to face to â—ove their accusations that they have aâ—inst them I believe many would come to 〈◊〉 better satisfied the mouths of gain 〈◊〉 would come to be stopped and the ignorance of foolish men would come to be silenced but that is the policy and subtilty of their grand Adversary who was a Lyar from the beginning to make people believe all the horrid lies that can be spoken invented of them and thereby comes the minds of thousands to be evil affected against the precious truth which if theâ— were but rightly informed of the certainty of things reported they would either bâ— brought to the acknowledgement of the truth otherwise to lay their hands upoâ— their mouths and become silent if theâ— were not evil men and seducers and sucâ— thou knowest will grow worse and worsâ— Enq. Hath the truth of God been so dâ—famed blasphemed and reproached in othâ—â— generations as it is now in this age Res. Yea in all ages when the Lord appeared by his power to reveal his precioâ—â— Truth upon the face of the earth Satâ—â— who goes to fro in the earth hath stiâ—red up his instruments to defame blaâ—pheme and reproach it by whose blasphâ—mies the living Truth hath been much â—â—faced and so it is now at this day by 〈◊〉 multitude of lyes false reports and aspeâ—â—ons which are cast upon it by wicked aâ— ungodly men who cry out against such 〈◊〉 formerly have defamed blasphemed aâ—â— reproached the Truth and they themselâ—â—â— are blasphemers and reproachers like as the Jews did who exclaimed against their Fathers for killing the Prophets yet they themselves put him to death who was the Prince of Glory of whom the Prophets prophesied Enq. But I would yet ask something concerning these People Baptize they their children Or are they themselves baptized Res. Their children they do not baptize according to the course of the World for they find no Scripture that speaks of Infants baptism nor no example in the Scripture for the same yet they who are in the unity are baptized by one Spirit into one Body and so many of them as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death that they should walk in newness of life and this is the onely baptism which they do witness Enq But were â—hey never baptized with Elementary water Res. Some of them in the time of ignorance were baptized with outward Water supposing that it were necessary for salvaâ—ion but after they had taken up the Ordiâ—ance they took up their rest also in the â—ead form did apply the Promises whicâ—â—as due to Believers although little or no â—eformation was wrought in them yet â—hey were conceited in themselves that it was well with them until the Lord in his infinite love opened their blind eyes and then they saw themselves to be poor naked and miserable that that rest which they had taken up was not the rest which the Lord had prepared for his people neither was that baptism wherewith they were baptized the baptism which should save them by the resurrection of Jesus Christ neither did the Promises pertain unto them which they had applyed to themselves and that which gave them to see these things was the light of Jesus Christ in them bywhich they were brought afterwards to witness the baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire Enq. But are there none of them sent to baptize that so others being baptized by them might come to witness the one baptism also Res. The same command that Christ gave at the first he is with us to the end of the World which is Go teach all Nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father of the Son of the Holy Ghost but here is no outward Water mentioned and the everlasting Gospel they are sent to preach and they do turn people from darkness to light from the power of Satan unto God and so many as receive their testimony believe in the light which they are turned unto they come to witness the one baptism which is by one spirit into one body although they be never dipped nor sprinkled with outward Water and hundreds of these people are come to witness this
which she was a Servant And the Spirit of the Lord these people wil not limit in male or female who are one in Christ Enq. What charity hath these People will they relieve the fatherless and widow c. Res. They have that charity which suffereth long which is kind and envieth not which vaunteth not it self nor is puffed up they have that charity which rejoiceth not 〈◊〉 iniquity but in the Truth which bearâ—â—â—h all things hopeth all things endureth 〈◊〉 things yea the Charity vvhich they â—â—ve vvill never fail and therefore are â—â—ey so charitable to the fatherless and â—iddows whom they relâ—ive within their â—ates if they be naked they cloath them 〈◊〉 they be hungry they feed them if they 〈◊〉 destitute of Lodging they take them in 〈◊〉 discreetly they do it and with much â—isdome lest any should depend upon it â—nd live in idleness and this they do espeâ—ally to them of the houshold of Faith â—ho cannot work nor have not of their â—wn wherewith to subsist such they Reâ—eve that so there need be no Beggar in â—â—rael Enq. According to the words in thy Anâ—â—er to my first Proposition so I find it that 〈◊〉 few words my first demand could not be â—swered but afterwards it would be more â—lly Truly I may say to thee as Agrippa â—id to Paul that he almost perswaded him to 〈◊〉 a Christian even so thou by thy sober 〈◊〉 plain Answers hast almost perswaded 〈◊〉 to be one of these people for verily I have 〈◊〉 desired to be satisfied in those things â—herein thou hast kindly resolved me like a â—â—reind that desireth my eternal felicity and 〈◊〉 the future I hope not to entertain every unsavory report of them as some do but 〈◊〉 to withstand false Reporters for noâ—â— have wherewith to answer them Res. I am glad that thou art so wellâ—â—tisfied and resolved for that was the 〈◊〉 thing that I aimed at excepting the 〈◊〉 of God and the clearing of these Peoâ—â—â— innocence from the very beginning 〈◊〉 when I wished thee to have patience a 〈◊〉 then I told thee that by the Lords aâ—â—â—stance I should endeavour to inform 〈◊〉 rightly and to resolve thee fully so far 〈◊〉 was allowed of God And now seeing 〈◊〉 it is come to this issue let me perswâ—â—â— thee to wait upon the Lord in his 〈◊〉 light which novv in some measure doâ—â—â— convince thee of his precious Truth 〈◊〉 vvhich these people do vvalk and be 〈◊〉 too forvvard in contending for them 〈◊〉 thou be one vvith them in the life aâ—â— povver of Truth and then thou vvilt be â—â—â—able to ansvver their opposers as I haâ— been by the Lords assistance to ansvvâ—â— thy objections Enq. For my own particular I find muâ—â— more contentment in my self then I did aâ—â— am for the present as an empty Vessel 〈◊〉 touching Objections against these people 〈◊〉 I know the subtilty of Saâ—an is great 〈◊〉 may yet possess me wiâ—h doâ—bts and fearâ—◠〈◊〉 bring Objections into my mind when thou 〈◊〉 not with me to answer them and to 〈◊〉 me Therefore I entreat thee to tell me 〈◊〉 I should do in such a cause Res. Thy chiefest remedy in such a 〈◊〉 is to stand still in the light which â—â—weth thee the subtilty of Satan to be â—at and enter not into consultations 〈◊〉 flesh blood for that is the way to 〈◊〉 in doubts and fears and the same that â—â—teth them in vvill bring Objections 〈◊〉 thy minde and take Exceptions against 〈◊〉 Truth and against them that are in it 〈◊〉 all these thou must judge dovvn vvith 〈◊〉 light and let them be made thy footâ—â—ol then vvill that spark of love in thee â—â—hich is tovvards the Truth become a â—â—me vvhich many vvaters vvill not be 〈◊〉 to quench and vvhen things ariseth in 〈◊〉 mind which thou art not clear in neiâ—â—â—r can comprehend cumber not thy 〈◊〉 vvith them but dvvel low in the cross 〈◊〉 thy vvil then the aspiring mind from â—â—ich frivolous objections doth arise 〈◊〉 come to be kept under the judgement 〈◊〉 then a principle of life thou vviâ—t feel â—â—ich will thresh and hew down thy lusts â—â—â—rupt desires and inordinate affections 〈◊〉 as these come to be mortified in thee â—wilt thou come to be brought into unity with the Lords people and to lye doâ—â— with them in their Fathers bosom of loâ— where I hope thou mayest at any 〈◊〉 find me in the general Assembly of 〈◊〉 Ransomed ones of the Lord where 〈◊〉 is sung to the Most High withoâ—â— ceasing THE END â—OSTSCRIPT OR Something Written after â—Ultitudes of Objections may arise out of that mind against the truth which cannot close with truth to wit the carnal mind in which an irreconâ—ble enmiâ—y lodgeth against the wayes of God the â—â—â—ship of God the righteousness of God and against truth of God in which these People are established that nothing can satisfie that unsatiable mind but 〈◊〉 and destruction for I know if many Volumes were â—it more then are in explanation and vindication of 〈◊〉 truth yet notwithstanding this busie mind would 〈◊〉 blemishes upon the truth through its defaming scanâ—â—â—â—zing and reproaching of it whereby their minds 〈◊〉 to be blinded in whom death reigns so that they â—old no beauty nor comelinesâ— in the pure everlasting 〈◊〉 being surprized with jealousies doubts and fears â—â—â—cerning the immutability the eternal excellency of the 〈◊〉 truth of God which to us that believe is exceedâ—â—â— precious and beauty glory and majesty we behold in 〈◊〉 which doth as far exceed the words beauty and gloâ—â—â— as the light of the sun exceeds the light of one sta◠〈◊〉 all things below to us that are saved are but as â—â—oss and dung in comparison of the eternal living â—â—â—th of God the excellency of which hath not been â—own by the Apostates who have been Apostatized or â—â—anged from that of God in them since the dayes of 〈◊〉 Apostacy But rejoyce O ye Saints and be exceeding glad who 〈◊〉 come out of that long dark and dolesomâ— Night of â—â—ostacy where you were well acquainâ—eâ— with sorrow and grief unto the everlasting day of joy and gladâ—â—â— where sorrow sighing is sted away rejoyce I say 〈◊〉 joy unspeakable for the Lord God is your Shepheard 〈◊〉 you shal not want â—ut with the finest of the VVheaâ—◠〈◊〉 shall be â—ed in Pastures which are green aâ—d large 〈◊〉 your souls may delight themselves in fatness And 〈◊〉 this my friends that the Lord God will wipe away 〈◊〉 râ—proach and sweep away the refuge of lies 〈◊〉 which your enemies who have smitten you with the 〈◊〉 of wickedness have with falshood hid themselves 〈◊〉 their rod shall not alwayes rest upon your Lot 〈◊〉 shall you alwayes be a prey unto them for the Lord 〈◊〉 will deliver you out of the hands of those that 〈◊〉 you and Kings and Princes he will rebuke for 〈◊〉 sakâ—s whereâ—ore be of good chear in the Lord he 〈◊〉 shall come will come and will not tarry The End