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in_o all_o which_o he_o be_v prove_v to_o have_v falsify_v chap._n 2._o 4._o how_o the_o conference_n be_v break_v up_o &_o what_o ensue_v afterward_o &_o of_o a_o defence_n set_v forth_o by_o the_o l._n plessis_n after_o his_o retire_n from_o the_o combat_n without_o a_o name_n more_o dishonourable_a than_o the_o combat_n itself_o chap._n 3._o an_fw-mi examen_fw-la of_o that_o defence_n in_o french_a as_o also_o of_o the_o answer_n of_o o._n e._n in_o english_a chap._n 4._o and_o 5._o the_o conclusion_n with_o certain_a consideration_n upon_o the_o whole_a chap._n 6._o to_o the_o reader_n concern_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o new_a edition_n of_o this_o relation_n with_o a_o defence_n thereof_o against_o diverse_a impugner_n three_o or_o four_o cause_n good_a reader_n have_v induce_v i_o to_o renew_v this_o relation_n and_o to_o set_v it_o forth_o again_o after_o three_o year_n space_n that_o it_o be_v first_o write_v and_o print_v which_o be_v in_o the_o year_n of_o jubiley_n 1600._o 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that_o will_v seem_v to_o touch_v plessis_n fidelity_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v as_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o need_v rather_o byndinge_v then_o answer_v yet_o somewhat_o shall_v we_o say_v to_o he_o as_o the_o straitness_n of_o this_o place_n and_o time_n will_v permit_v and_o thereby_o show_v sufficient_o what_o manner_n of_o adversary_n he_o be_v and_o that_o have_v lose_v or_o lay_v aside_o as_o it_o seem_v all_o manner_n of_o respect_n to_o shamefastness_n and_o modesty_n he_o may_v easy_o lend_v out_o his_o tongue_n &_o pen_n for_o small_a hire_n to_o any_o man_n and_o true_o i_o can_v not_o but_o marvel_n that_o a_o man_n of_o his_o profession_n &_o place_n can_v persuade_v himself_o that_o so_o excessive_a a_o raylinge_v and_o opprobrious_a stile_n against_o all_o who_o he_o answer_v shall_v gain_v he_o credit_v with_o any_o modest_a or_o sober_a sort_n of_o man_n he_o will_v find_v some_o in_o the_o end_n that_o will_v return_v he_o legem_fw-la talionis_fw-la &_o then_o he_o 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to_o by_o so_o call_v can_v be_v censure_v for_o less_o than_o wilful_a imposture_n for_o if_o he_o have_v not_o so_o much_o judgement_n as_o to_o discern_v a_o objection_n from_o a_o resolution_n than_o be_v he_o a_o simple_a fellow_n to_o write_v book_n and_o if_o he_o do_v discern_v it_o and_o yet_o seek_v to_o deceive_v his_o reader_n in_o so_o weighty_a a_o matter_n as_o be_v the_o controversy_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n he_o be_v and_o be_v a_o wilful_a imposter_n these_o than_o be_v the_o 2._o first_o point_n of_o our_o english_a advocate_n defence_n let_v we_o hear_v how_o he_o go_v forward_o ib._n and_o yet_o say_v he_o if_o peron_n have_v charge_v he_o only_o with_o mistakinge_v himself_o bid_v be_v mistake_v and_o great_o have_v he_o wrong_v his_o adversary_n for_o that_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o that_o scotus_n do_v indeed_o call_v into_o question_n whether_o christ_n body_n be_v real_o by_o e._n transubstantiation_n contain_v under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n and_o dispute_v that_o it_o be_v not_o which_o be_v all_o that_o the_o l._n plessis_n do_v say_v of_o scotus_n for_o which_o he_o be_v challenge_v by_o his_o wrangle_a adversary_n etc._n etc._n be_v it_o all_o sir_n matthew_n as_o true_o as_o you_o be_v true_a of_o your_o word_n 2._o he_o that_o shall_v read_v the_o examen_fw-la of_o the_o place_n rehearse_v before_o shall_v find_v that_o his_o adversary_n challenge_v he_o not_o for_o say_v that_o scotus_n make_v this_o objection_n for_o the_o real_a presence_n or_o dispute_v against_o it_o after_o the_o fashion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o for_o that_o persidious_o he_o allege_v the_o place_n as_o though_o scotus_n have_v be_v of_o that_o negatyve_a opinion_n and_o that_o the_o argument_n object_v have_v be_v his_o own_o and_o not_o of_o heretic_n &_o solue_v by_o he_o this_o be_v the_o charge_n of_o the_o bishop_n against_o he_o and_o what_o will_v you_o say_v to_o master_n sutcliffe_n avouchinge_v the_o contrary_a but_o let_v we_o see_v what_o manner_n of_o proof_n he_o will_v bring_v for_o his_o assertion_n for_o that_o he_o dare_v not_o let_v so_o gross_a a_o absurdity_n pass_v without_o some_o shadow_n of_o reason_n which_o yet_o you_o shall_v see_v to_o be_v far_o worse_o then_o if_o he_o have_v pass_v it_o over_o in_o silence_n hear_v then_o his_o evasion_n neither_o be_v it_o material_a say_v he_o that_o this_o be_v the_o use_n of_o school_n 12._o first_o to_o object_n against_o the_o truth_n and_o afterward_o to_o resolve_v what_o be_v true_a and_o to_o answer_v the_o objection_n for_o that_o do_v not_o disproove_v mounseur_fw-fr plessis_n his_o assertion_n see_v scotus_n do_v not_o only_o in_o his_o objection_n but_o also_o in_o his_o resolution_n of_o that_o question_n say_v as_o much_o as_o m._n plessis_n collect_v out_o of_o he_o etc._n etc._n if_o this_o can_v be_v prove_v i_o will_v call_v o._n e._n a_o cunning_a advocate_n indeed_o but_o if_o it_o can_v then_o be_v he_o to_o to_o forgetful_a 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that_o some_o old_a heathen_a writer_n do_v use_v they_o so_o yet_o the_o ecclesiastical_a use_n thereof_o both_o in_o scripture_n &_o ancient_a father_n do_v always_o distinguish_v most_o exact_o these_o 2._o word_n as_o for_o example_n it_o can_v never_o be_v find_v either_o in_o scripture_n or_o ancient_a father_n that_o the_o word_n idol_n be_v take_v in_o good_a part_n as_o image_n be_v nor_o that_o they_o do_v ever_o call_v the_o cherubin_n 1â—_n and_o other_o image_n in_o the_o temple_n of_o jerusalem_n idol_n nor_o do_v the_o scripture_n call_v man_n the_o idol_n of_o god_n but_o the_o image_n of_o god_n nor_o do_v ever_o any_o christian_a writer_n dare_v to_o speak_v otherwise_o nor_o to_o call_v our_o saviour_n the_o idol_n of_o his_o father_n but_o only_o the_o image_n of_o his_o father_n and_o other_o like_a example_n whereby_o be_v evident_a that_o both_o the_o scripture_n and_o holy_a father_n do_v observe_v a_o strict_a distinction_n betwixt_o these_o word_n and_o 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christian_a image_n be_v accustom_v to_o be_v set_v up_o religious_o in_o church_n the_o bishop_n allege_v many_o place_n out_o of_o s._n barlâ—am_n basill_n s._n theod._n gregory_n nissen_n 52._o photius_n cassiano_n prudentius_n sulpit_n paulinus_n and_o other_o which_o text_n be_v there_o bring_v forth_o read_v and_o allow_v and_o all_o this_o end_v he_o require_v monsieur_n plessis_n to_o confess_v this_o first_o abuse_n against_o theodoretes_n own_o meaning_n and_o to_o answer_v to_o the_o second_o why_o he_o have_v leave_v out_o those_o word_n that_o declare_v his_o meaning_n to_o wit_n idol_n adore_v by_o the_o pagan_n and_o adore_v for_o god_n he_o answer_v that_o he_o have_v leave_v they_o out_o for_o brevitye_n sake_n and_o have_v set_v down_o only_o the_o substantial_a clause_n of_o theodoretes_n text_n but_o the_o bishop_n reply_v that_o this_o brevity_n be_v not_o commendable_a and_o that_o the_o clause_n leave_v out_o be_v the_o most_o substantial_a of_o all_o the_o rest_n for_o declaringe_v the_o truth_n and_o theodoretes_n meaning_n in_o the_o matter_n in_o hand_n plessis_n answer_v plessis_n that_o it_o appertain_v not_o to_o his_o purpose_n to_o allege_v those_o word_n the_o bishop_n say_v that_o it_o do_v if_o his_o purpose_n be_v to_o deal_v plain_o &_o to_o have_v the_o truth_n know_v then_o fall_v plessis_n to_o his_o old_a refuge_n and_o say_v that_o he_o have_v not_o allege_v the_o foresaid_a text_n of_o theodorete_n direct_o against_o image_n but_o indirect_o and_o by_o a_o certain_a analogy_n or_o consequence_n which_o the_o bishop_n refute_v and_o final_o after_o all_o he_o demand_v judgement_n upon_o the_o place_n and_o upon_o both_o the_o two_o corruption_n object_v which_o after_o diligent_a revew_n of_o the_o place_n in_o theodorete_n and_o advise_v take_v of_o all_o the_o deputye_n the_o lord_n chancellor_n pronounce_v in_o all_o their_o name_n in_o these_o word_n 105._o que_fw-fr ce_fw-fr passage_n ne_fw-fr se_fw-fr devoit_n entendre_fw-fr que_fw-fr des_fw-fr idol_n des_fw-fr payens_fw-fr &_o non_fw-fr des_fw-fr image_n de_fw-fr chrestiens_fw-la comme_fw-fr il_fw-fr paroissoit_fw-fr par_fw-fr ces_fw-fr mots_fw-fr adorn_v par_fw-fr les_fw-fr payens_fw-fr &_o adorée_n pour_v dieux_fw-fr que_fw-fr avoient_fw-fr esté_fw-fr obmis_fw-fr which_o be_v to_o say_v that_o this_o passage_n of_o theodoret_n must_v be_v understand_v of_o painim_n idol_n and_o not_o of_o christian_a image_n as_o be_v plain_a by_o the_o word_n adore_v by_o paynim_n and_o adore_v for_o god_n which_o be_v leave_v out_o by_o which_o sentence_n give_v also_o by_o his_o own_o man_n he_o remain_v condemn_v as_o you_o see_v of_o both_o the_o falsitye_n object_v at_o the_o begin_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o here_o now_o it_o be_v upon_o the_o point_n of_o seven_o of_o the_o clock_n at_o night_n the_o k._n dismiss_v the_o company_n for_o that_o time_n and_o remit_v the_o continuation_n of_o the_o same_o conference_n to_o begin_v again_o the_o 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which_o have_v pass_v but_o especial_o those_o that_o have_v expect_v without_o in_o other_o chamber_n and_o galerye_n round_o about_o and_o in_o the_o k._n garden_n beneath_o and_o can_v get_v no_o place_n within_o the_o chamber_n where_o the_o conference_n be_v hold_v these_o i_o say_v as_o well_o catholik_o as_o protestant_n press_v great_o to_o know_v what_o have_v be_v do_v &_o what_o have_v be_v the_o issue_n of_o that_o trial_n and_o so_o earnest_a suit_n be_v make_v unto_o the_o secretarye_n for_o copy_n of_o the_o sentence_n as_o that_o very_a night_n they_o be_v give_v abroad_o in_o write_v contain_v as_o before_o you_o have_v hear_v to_o wit_n that_o upon_o the_o first_o 2._o place_n of_o scotus_n and_o durandus_fw-la the_o sentence_n be_v that_o monsieur_n plessis_n have_v take_v the_o objection_n for_o the_o resolution_n upon_o the_o second_o place_n of_o s._n chrysostome_n that_o he_o have_v leave_v out_o that_o which_o he_o shall_v have_v put_v in_o sentence_n upon_o 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plessis_n do_v before_o but_o how_o do_v he_o go_v about_o think_v you_o to_o prove_v that_o scotus_n in_o his_o resolution_n touchinge_v the_o real_a presence_n do_v hold_v the_o same_o that_o in_o his_o objection_n against_o it_o you_o shall_v hear_v his_o own_o word_n immediate_o follow_v in_o the_o same_o matter_n ibid._n nay_o say_v he_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o behold_v here_o the_o true_a dealing_v of_o m._n sutkliffe_n who_o give_v we_o quid_fw-la pro_fw-la quo_fw-la as_o apothecaryes_n be_v wont_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o scotus_n determine_v in_o his_o resolution_n against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o now_o he_o say_v that_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o so_o as_o for_o the_o real_a presence_n quo_fw-la here_o be_v thrust_v in_o transubstantiation_n and_o for_o determination_n and_o resolution_n be_v shuffle_v in_o a_o seeminge_v to_o dislike_v rather_o than_o otherwise_o be_v there_o ever_o any_o such_o good_a apothecary_n that_o give_v quid_fw-la pro_fw-la quo_fw-la and_o if_o here_o to_o help_v himself_o out_o he_o will_v say_v that_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n be_v all_o one_o controversy_n he_o impugn_v himself_o in_o the_o very_a next_o place_n of_o durand_n as_o you_o shall_v see_v when_o we_o come_v to_o it_o where_o he_o affirm_v durand_n to_o hold_v and_o it_o be_v true_a and_o scotus_n hold_v the_o same_o also_o that_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o sacrament_n may_v have_v be_v by_o other_o mean_n then_o by_o transubstantiation_n if_o god_n will_v have_v have_v it_o so_o and_o consequent_o be_v distinct_a thing_n and_o hereof_o also_o i_o do_v convince_v o._n e._n of_o another_o false_a trick_n of_o thrustinge_v in_o the_o word_n by_o transubstantiation_n a_o little_a before_o in_o recytinge_v the_o question_n of_o scotus_n which_o be_v not_o in_o sâ—otus_n himself_o nor_o in_o his_o word_n more_o true_o allege_v in_o this_o behalf_n by_o plessis_n as_o before_o you_o may_v see_v for_o that_o scotus_n question_n be_v whether_o christ_n body_n be_v real_o contain_v under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n dealing_v and_o this_o fellow_n propose_v it_o thus_o whether_o christ_n body_n be_v real_o by_o transubstantiation_n contain_v etc._n etc._n and_o this_o to_o the_o end_n he_o may_v deceive_v his_o reader_n as_o here_o he_o do_v by_o leapinge_v from_o the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o when_o he_o be_v press_v or_o gaul_v whereas_o scotus_n do_v handle_v these_o two_o controversy_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n as_o different_a and_o distinct_a thing_n not_o only_o in_o sundry_a question_n but_o in_o sundry_a distinction_n also_o to_o wit_n the_o first_o in_o the_o ten_o the_o second_o in_o the_o eleven_o distinction_n upon_o the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n so_o as_o here_o i_o must_v represent_v unto_o you_o the_o boldness_n or_o ignorance_n of_o o._n e._n to_o exceed_v much_o that_o of_o master_n plessis_n his_o client_n and_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o controversy_n about_o the_o real_a presence_n but_o now_o lest_o you_o may_v think_v he_o have_v somewhat_o more_o to_o say_v to_o prove_v scotus_n to_o be_v against_o transubstantiation_n then_o against_o the_o real_a presence_n how_o for_o that_o he_o so_o leap_v from_o the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o let_v we_o hear_v his_o argument_n though_o you_o must_v note_v by_o the_o way_n his_o nice_a assertion_n in_o say_v that_o scotus_n seem_v rather_o to_o dislike_v transubstantiation_n then_o otherwise_o and_o his_o argument_n be_v two_o objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n as_o the_o other_o be_v before_o against_o the_o real_a presence_n the_o first_o objection_n objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o himself_o be_v for_o that_o bread_n together_o with_o his_o accident_n or_o species_n do_v more_o represent_v unto_o we_o the_o nature_n of_o spiritual_a food_n without_o transubstantiation_n than_o the_o bare_a accident_n by_o and_o after_o transubstantiation_n ergo_fw-la the_o nature_n of_o the_o encharist_n in_o this_o respect_n of_o nourishment_n may_v have_v be_v conserve_v though_o god_n have_v not_o appoint_v transubstantiation_n but_o his_o body_n to_o have_v be_v together_o with_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n which_o argument_n you_o see_v make_v against_o the_o alleager_v o._n e._n flat_o for_o that_o it_o prove_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n to_o be_v distinct_a thing_n and_o that_o the_o one_o may_v have_v be_v without_o the_o other_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v foolish_o bring_v by_o o._n e._n see_v it_o be_v not_o only_o a_o objection_n and_o no_o resolution_n but_o also_o a_o objection_n that_o impugn_v his_o assertion_n the_o second_o objection_n objection_n of_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n isâ—_n that_o in_o misterye_n of_o our_o faith_n that_o interpretation_n seem_v most_o to_o be_v admit_v which_o require_v least_o miracle_n for_o maintayninge_v thereof_o but_o few_o miracle_n seem_v to_o be_v require_v without_o transubstantiation_n then_o with_o transubstantiation_n ergo_fw-la we_o shall_v rather_o admit_v the_o reality_n of_o christ_n body_n together_o with_o bread_n without_o transubstantiation_n than_o the_o same_o body_n with_o only_a accident_n of_o bread_n by_o transubstantiation_n these_o be_v two_o objection_n among_o other_o make_v by_o scotus_n against_o transubstantiation_n above_o fifty_o leaf_n after_o his_o former_a objection_n against_o the_o real_a presence_n which_o objection_n after_o his_o resolution_n set_v down_o for_o transubstantiation_n he_o answer_v &_o solve_v begin_v thus_o ad_fw-la argumenta_fw-la etc._n etc._n now_o must_v we_o answer_v the_o argument_n make_v to_o the_o contrary_a etc._n etc._n but_o yet_o about_o the_o first_o objection_n he_o repeat_v again_o dico_fw-la quod_fw-la bené_fw-fr fuisset_fw-la deo_fw-la possibile_fw-la instituisse_fw-la 3._o quod_fw-la corpus_fw-la verè_fw-la esset_fw-la praesens_fw-la substantia_fw-la panis_fw-la manente_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o say_v that_o if_o god_n will_v he_o have_v be_v well_o able_a to_o have_v appoint_v his_o body_n to_o have_v be_v present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n together_o with_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n without_o transubstantiation_n etc._n etc._n but_o have_v appoint_v otherwise_o as_o appear_v by_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n we_o be_v not_o to_o respect_v more_o or_o few_o miracle_n etc._n etc._n and_o hence_o now_o you_o see_v that_o o._n e._n endeavoringe_v to_o deliver_v plessis_n from_o the_o shame_n of_o cytinge_n scotus_n his_o objection_n for_o his_o resolution_n in_o the_o controversy_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n himself_o bring_v forth_o tow_v more_o objection_n for_o resolution_n without_o see_v the_o shame_n thereof_o about_o the_o article_n of_o transubstantiation_n 12._o yea_o &_o further_o blush_v not_o to_o infer_v thereupon_o this_o conclusion_n that_o scotus_n plain_o mislike_v that_o interpretation_n that_o without_o diverse_a miracle_n can_v be_v maintain_v etc._n etc._n lie_n and_o that_o albeit_o he_o be_v content_a to_o subscribe_v to_o the_o pope_n determination_n &_o dare_v not_o do_v otherwise_o yet_o that_o he_o himselse_n think_v otherwise_o etc._n etc._n o_o jesus_n what_o shall_v a_o man_n say_v of_o these_o manner_n of_o people_n let_v we_o hear_v scotus_n his_o own_o word_n in_o the_o same_o place_n where_o he_o talk_v of_o the_o church_n determination_n &_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n for_o this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n dico_fw-la say_v he_o quod_fw-la eo_fw-la spiritu_fw-la expositae_fw-la sunt_fw-la scripturae_fw-la quo_fw-la conditae_fw-la 3._o &_o ita_fw-la supponendum_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la catholica_fw-la eo_fw-la spiritu_fw-la exposuit_fw-la quo_fw-la tradita_fw-la est_fw-la nobis_fw-la fides_fw-la spiritu_fw-la scilicet_fw-la veritatis_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o do_v day_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v expound_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n by_o which_o they_o be_v write_v and_o so_o we_o must_v suppose_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v expound_v they_o unto_o we_o to_o wit_n the_o scripture_n that_o concern_v this_o mystery_n of_o transubstantiation_n with_o that_o spirit_n wherewith_o our_o faith_n be_v deliver_v unto_o we_o that_o be_v to_o say_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n etc._n etc._n lo_o here_o scotus_n found_v the_o truth_n of_o transubstantiation_n not_o upon_o the_o pope_n determination_n or_o upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n only_o as_o false_o o._n e._n charge_v he_o but_o upon_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n expound_v by_o the_o church_n with_o the_o same_o spirit_n of_o truth_n whereby_o they_o be_v write_v and_o consequent_o be_v far_o of_o from_o plain_o mislikinge_v this_o interpretation_n as_o o._n e._n affirm_v but_o for_o that_o among_o other_o argument_n scotus_n name_v the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n the_o calumniator_n that_o can_v not_o abide_v the_o word_n charge_v he_o present_o to_o be_v move_v only_o with_o that_o reason_n what_o will_v he_o have_v