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A13880 A defence of the ecclesiastical discipline ordayned of God to be vsed in his Church Against a replie of Maister Bridges, to a briefe and plain declaration of it, which was printed An[no]. 1584. Which replie he termeth, A defence of the gouernement established in the Church of Englande, for ecclesiasticall matters. Travers, Walter, 1547 or 8-1635. 1588 (1588) STC 24183; ESTC S118502 153,730 244

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namely the priestes were they whose lippes were fined from earthlie corruption and sett on fyre with the coales of the Lordes altar by an Angell of heauen and whose mouth was sanctified of God Esa 1.10.11 Heare the word of the Lorde sayeth Esay yee leaders or Princes of Sodome and hearken to the doctrine of God ô ye people of Gomorrah What haue I to doe with the multitude of your sacrifices saith the lord I am full of the burnt offringes of the Rammes and of the fatte of the fed beastes and I desire not the bloud of Bullockes nor of lambes nor of goates And agayne Their watchmen are all blinde they haue no knowledge they are all dumbe dogges they can not barke they lye and sleepe and delyte in sleeping Iere. 8.10.11.12 Likewise Ieremie sayeth I will giue their wiues vnto others and their fieldes to them that shall possesse them for euery one from the least euen to the greatest is giuen to couetousnes and from the Prophete euen vnto the Priest euerie one dealeth falselie For they haue healed the hurt of the doughter of my people with sweete wordes saying Peace peace when there is no peace Were they ashamed when they had committed abhomination Nay they were not ashamed neyther could they haue any shame therefore shall they fall among the stayne when I shall visite them they shal be cast downe saieth the Lorde If it be obiected that these Prophetes might liue in some wicked Kings dayes wherein the holy worship of God was wholy suppressed and superstition only Idolatrie tooke place I answere that they exercised in deede their Propheticall office ministerie in diuers kings times whereof though some were wicked yet some also were godlie and ouerthrewe idolatrie and sett vp the true worship of GOD yea some of them namely Iosiah and Ezeckiah were the two rarest Princes for pietie and zeale that euer after Dauid were kings ouer that people yet did no honest man much les any true Prophete esteeme their most iust reproofe of the iniquitie of all states to be iniurious or derogatorie to the honor of those noble Kings no nor anie of the Priests that did their duties They were in deede hereby warned as by the voyce of God to looke to such enormities and to see them reformed otherwyse they were to feele as they were threatened with the wrath of God who would require it at their handes if for default of employing the authoritie whiche GOD for such purpose had giuen them notorious transgressions chieflie in things belonginge to the seruice of God were not redressed yet did those Prophetes honour and loue their Church their Countrey their Princes and all estates of the people as we doe the Lord bearing witnes to vs that we speake the trueth and as wee ought to honour all lawfull authoritie and power in the common wealth or in the church In deed they had not sworne Canonicall obedience to any of their Priests as the Replyer sayth peraduenture some of vs haue done for this is an othe whiche God neuer commaunded and howsoeuer it be suffered if it might be duely examined would be founde meete and necessarie to be reformed both in regarde of God of the crown and dignitie of the Prince But to returne to my former purpose howe deare were the Churches of Corinth of Galatia and other places to the Apostle Paule who loued them to liue and dye with them to deale vnto them not the Gospell of Christ onely but euen his owne soule yet howe sharpely doeth he rebuke them Was he therefore their enimie because he did so and tolde them the trueth In the Reuelation Iohn writeth by commaundement to the Churches of Asia without derogation to anie thing that was in good state amongst them yea to the commendation of that which was such but yet so sharpely reprouing them for certayne enormities that were amongst them as that he threatneth the remouing of their golden Candlesticke and the goodly light of the Gospell of Christ whiche shined amongest them If then the writer of the Declaration haue rebuked in a worde the disorder of the policie and Discipline of our Church in that good sorte that is meete or if any of vs doe the like are we therefore as the Replier woulde haue vs not thankfull nor faithfull Ministers to God or not louing and obedient subiectes We may I hope truly professe that we both feare God and honour the Prince and loue his Church amongst vs and are faithfull and obedient according to Gods word vnto both But the feare of God our most bounden duetie to our dread soueraigne Ladie the Queene our zealous loue to our Church doe constrayne vs to rebuke that which is reproueable by Gods worde not to dishonour our church or any whom the state thereof may concerne but to procure the further reformation of it and thereby to encrease the honour of it incomparably more then euer heretofore both with God and in all the Churches I would to God we had cause to saye with the Apostle We reioyce to see the stayednes of your faith and the order that is amongest you I would to God we might say it were without spot or wrinckle and might truely speake of it all the most honourable thinges that are spoken of the Church of God and saye Jt is cleare as the morning fayre as the Moone pure as the Sunne and that what els Salomon according to his wisedome in his excellent Song commendeth the Church by or any other of the Prophetes or whatsoeuer the Apostles doe prayse any of the churches for might be verified of it This should be our comfort and our ioye our honour and our crowne And therfore doe we not cease by earnest prayer and most humble sute to God and to the authoritie which he hath set ouer vs and by all dutie agreeable to our callinge to procure the increase of the good and honour of it with all power But it being subiect to a curse to call euill good and iustly reprooued in former times to say all is well where GOD is displeased with many things that are not well but neede most speedie reformation conscience to God and louing duetie towarde the Church seeme to haue moued the authour of the Declaration to note that disordre which he esteemed to bee in the state of our church ought to enforce vs to do the like vpon iust occasiō If all things be ordered according to the worde of God in our Church then surely was the authour of the Declaration deceyued in iudgement but in affection and purpose of hart committed nothing against it But I demaunde If by the worde of God vnlearned men of all occupations and trades be sufficient Ministers to take charge of the holy thinges of Gods worde and Sacramentes and of the soules of the people Is the state of the Church well ordered whiche hauing the fauourable countenance of a gratious Queene according to the promise Queenes
enioye the kingdome nor to beare ciuill offices but the causes of God and the causes of the King had their seuerall triall officers and Iudges But this a Bishop or Archbishop euen by his ordination is not onely not bounde vnto but of the contrarie being ordayned to exercise the office of a Bishoppe according to the worde of God and the ordinances of this Realme is to meddle with ciuill iustice For the worde of God not speaking any one worde of such an office and the ordinances of the Realme laying vpon them offices charges in ciuill affaires they intermedle with all causes by reason of their office I might note many other repugnances in-their offices with the lawfull charges of Pastours and Teachers as their immoderate power in dealing with all ecclesiasticall causes of gouernement alone in ordayning Ministers giuing and calling in licences censuring suspending excōmunicating absoluing such like But these reasons may suffice to shew that otherwise then the Replyer mainteyneth Bishoppes and Archbishops such as he speaketh of are not nor can not in any iust and true account be reckoned Pastours Teachers Such in deede they may haue bin and were firste ordayned to be and therefore ought to haue continued in that calling But accepting of th' offices of Bishops and Archbishops wherin there are so many things as haue bin shewed repugnant to the functions of Pastours and Teachers they can not in any sorte be esteemed trew Pastours and Teachers of the church such as our Sauiour appointed for the worke of the Ministerie but are a thing degenerate and growen out of kinde a humane creature and an institution and ordinance of Kings and Princes Thus much may suffice to shewe that Bishops and Archbi hops are not Pastours and Teachers Whereby it is playne to be no consequence whiche the Replier maketh for them in this place that is because there were Pastors and Teachers in the primitiue Church that therefore there were Bishops and Archbishops also in that time Hee addeth they are such as haue bene Deacons too which being admitted it followeth not because they haue bin Deacons and nowe are Bishops or Archbishops that therefore Bishops and Archbishops were in the primitiue Church But I denie that euer they were right and lawfull Deacons For a Deacon is an ecclesiasticall officer attending the poore of the Church whose Deacon he is The trueth of this is most euident by the Deacons of Ierusalem of whose institution we reade in the sixt of the Actes where the Apostles discharging them selues of this care and seruice determined and boūded their office of Apostleship for euer after within the boundes of preachinge and prayers and the Deacons office in that which they discharge them selues of that is in the attendance of the poore Which appeareth also by the 12. to the Romanes where their office is limited in like maner Nowe the Deaconshippe hee speaketh of which they haue had is no such matter but a meere humane institution a degree to priesthoode a power to baptise and reade the publique Litargie without power to minister the Lordes Supper or to preach by vertue of that calling and is nothing like the ordinance of GOD for the reliefe of the poore Therefore euen that also is not trew whiche the Replier saieth that they haue bin Deacons too In deede they haue come by the Deacons bagge and got into their hands that which by th'ordinance of God and the auncient commons of the Church should be distributed by the Deacons to the comfort of the poore Which the Christian Magistrate is in all duetie to God to require at their handes to restore to the former right vse againe as he is other partes of their liuings and namelie that which ought to be the liuing of the Pastors Teachers which attende vpon the seruice of the people in teaching and instructing them in true religion whose liutngs being taken away and cast into those seas would be restored againe that the people giuing their goods to be taught in the knowledge of God not able to giue any more do not perishe for wante of teaching but may receyue the fruite of this their liberalitie But this because I haue not further occasiō in this place I forbeare to debate at large onely by occasion of their Deaconshippe I haue in a word noted their iust dealing as with the poore and the Deacons so also with the Pastors and Teachers with all the people of God Whereby appeareth that howsoeuer they are transformed now are neither Pastours Teachers Elders nor Deacons yet sauing the worke and labour of these callings in preaching vnto the people and watching ouer them with the Lordes watche and seruing the necessities of the poore they haue wholy deuoured them all All the power authoritie and liuing both of Pastours Teachers and Deacons yea and the treasure of the poore also being possessed and enioyed by them Thus haue I answered his two reasons alleadged to proue Bishops and Archbishops to haue bin in the primitiue Church In this place affirming them to be in their office and kinde of ministerie Pastours and Teachers yet saith he sith he is the ordainer or ordinarie of them and ouerseer both of them the people he is in dignitie of another office and kinde of ministerie different from them For answere wherevnto he is to vnderstande that the worde of God giueth not this authoritie to a Bishop to be ouerseer of the people and also of their Pastours and Teachers nor to any one man bearing ecclesiasticall office to be the ordainer or the ordinarie as he speaketh of the Ministers of the worde As touching the firste of ouersight the worde Ouerseer or as we call it Bishop Actes 20. is vsed diuers times in the Scriptures but alwayes in regard of the people Phil. 1.1 and of the Church and at no time of other Ministers of the worde If it be otherwise let him shewe where a Bishop or Ouerseer is named in respect of other Pastours and Teachers True it is that Pastours Teachers may offende through the corruption of nature that is in all men therfore are not exempted and freed by the worde of God neither frō ouersight nor punishment but are liable to all maner of censures of the church as any other of the congregatiō to the ciuil punishments of the lawes But their ouerseers in such cases are the ciuil Magistrat who is to see that they doe their duties or to enforce them to it by ciuill punishments their cause being firste duely heard tried and iudged Further the Eldership of that church whervpon they attende and all the greater Cōferences and Synodes wherevnto by good order agreed in the churhc they are made subiect haue the ouersight of them power to admonish censure with ecclesiasticall censures of deposition from their ministerie or of suspension and excommunication as their offence may deserue So as no man in the Churche nor in the
holy ministeries which our Sauiour ordayned but other humane deuyses and creatures of Popes Archbishops and Bishops Which yet if it doe not content him I may saye further that this office of Elder continued in suche sorte as he affirmeth the other to haue done For what were the Ciuilians Doctours and Proctours Chauncelors Commissaries Officialls and the rest of that traffique Officers and Retaylers to the great Marchaunts of soules Archbishopps and Bishods who notwithstanding they were lay men did administer the censures of the Church without any due and ordinarie ecclesiasticall calling in deede at the appointment onely of their Lordes and Maisters the Bishops to a foule profanation of the holy censure of the Church whether it bee done in Babylon or in Syon For this iniquitie also is to be founde euen in the Church of God Yet in their administration the office of the Elder is as much and a great deale more to bee seene then true and lawfull Pastours Teachers and Deacons appeare to haue continued in such tagge and ragge as were in the popishe church But the trueth is that all Euangelicall charges and the Gospell it selfe was deteyned in vnrighteousnes and the free right and originall nature vse and benefite of these offices ceased and was interrupted for a time as the like hath come to passe in other such wastes and desolations of the Church as in the time of some of the Iudges in the raigne of Manasses and in the captiuitie the ordinarie offices and dueties were interrupted and God extraordinarily preserued his people All these things were for a time Luke 20.9 as the inheritance in the parable of the Gospell in the handes and possession of vniust and rebellious seruauntes But nowe the Lorde sendeth out his seruauntes and demaundeth of his seruauntes that fruite seruice and honour whiche is due vnto him with a part whereof he will not be satisfied but will haue all his rightes and regalities prerogatiues and offices restored vnto him or els will punishe them as rebells and vniust with-holders This is the answere I make to this poynt whiche the Replyer bolteth out in ceasing by de facto not de iure and when he hath done replyeth to it with an idle questiō if they were once where they haue bin hidden or banished all this whyle or if they were dead and buried c. not worth anie answere Another reason why the order vsed in the primitiue Church should not be restored nowe in the reformed Churches is because they haue no Bishops nor Archbishops whom he affirmeth to haue bin in that time yea and ordayned by the Apostles to haue authoritie ouer them in the Regions and Cities limited to them Whiche superiour and olde standardes to displace sayeth hee to bring in yonge and inferiour Seignours as they who hauing seene the olde temple did also see the laying of the foundation of the newe So would it make a mans harte throbbe and bleede to see howe the beautie of the Church is vaded hir ornamentes spoyled her body haled vnder pretence of reforming This argument needeth no long aunswere to it hauing bin sufficientlie shewed before that it is a vanitie to thinke that such offices as Archbishops and Bishops nowe beare ouer the Churches and the Ministers of the same to haue bin in that time Here it may suffice as it is but affirmed with a word of his without any maner of profe so to denie it with another vpon the reasons before alledged As for his weeping to see the old standards pulled downe and the Church spoyled of her ornamentes if hee meane hereby the manours and royalties that are in other mens handes whō can he blame for it more then such as care not howe the successours doe so they may aspire to the dignitie they couetouslie and ambitiouslie seeke and labour for If hee meane not those braunches but the trees them selues from whence they growe let him consider the bitter fruite they haue borne and the vnwholesome shadowe they haue cast from the first roote they tooke and especiallie of late he shall haue no cause to weepe to see the axe making readie to be layde to their rootes His harte should rather bleede to see in the garden of God anie trees wherein vncleane birdes make their nestes and vncleane beastes take their reast and from whence the cleane are driuen for feare of annoyance and which suffer no fruite or heauenly plante to growe vnder them or neare vnto them Then would he praye with the watchmen of whome Daniell writeth Dan. 4.11 Cut downe ô Lorde these great and noysome trees whiche are strong to euill and not to good Many a fayre tree hath the Lorde plucked vp and in time it is to bee hoped that he will doe the like to these For our Sauiour hath saide Euerie plante that my heauenly Father hath not planted shal be rooted vp Mat. 15.13 His harte bleedeth to see the goodly leases that are drawen from Church-liuings the great Lordshippes that are gone from the Cleargie and Cathedrall Churches and peraduenture some other giftes to see the dispensations whiche seeme to threaten the carying away of an I le and an Earldome from some who would fayne enioye them still But whose harte is mooued with compassion of the people of God whiche is in deede his trewe church to see the worde of God daily taken from them and they left as a flocke of sheepe vpon the moūtaynes without their shephearde to see the Preachers forbidden to preach the Gospell to see the church kept as in captiuitie vnder a reading and lordlie ministerie that neyther teache the people them selues nor suffer other that would to teache them to see goodlie assemblies which haue made heauen and earth to ringe and resounde agayne with the prayses of God scattred and distolued to see the places like Eden the garden of God before the storme layde wast and desolate as the desert places to see the zealous people of God running as in a drought to finde a spring of sweete waters where they may quenche their thirste and faynting in their soules for want of it so many fountaynes being stopped and sealed vppe they that haue the bowells of Christ in them are to be moued with these things As for matters of griefe here mentioned the matter is not so great so that things be done by due order and with consideration of sufficient maintenance of those which God hath appoynted for the worke of the ministerie of all the ordinances of God and the edification and comfort of his people Hitherto in this section the Replyer hath discoursed of the former sorte of reasons of this section which is of the causes confirming the order set downe in the Declaration Nowe he proceedeth to the other argument remayning which is of the great fruite and benefite of this order in the Churches which haue receyued it and the want of the same in suche as haue not yet restored it agayne Wherein first scanning