according to their Conscience and beleife and constraine them to such worships which their own soules tell them they have no satifaction nor faith in 1. It is an untruth that either we restraine men from worship according to Conscience or constraine them to worship against Conscience or that such is my Tenent and practise 2. Though it were true that wee did both yet this did not make Lawes to binde Conscience but the outward man onely nor would we thinke it meet to binde the ontward man against Conscience Discusser Againe where as the Answerer affirmeth That men may make Lawes to see the Lawes of God observed I Answer As God needs not the help of a materiall Sword of Steele to assist the Sword of the Spirit in the affairs of Conscience so those men those Magistrates yea the Common-wealth which makes such Magistrates must needs have power and Authority from Christ Iesus to sit Iudge and to determine in all the great Controversies concerning Doctrine Worship Government c. Defender God needeth not the help of a materiall Sword of Steele to assist the Sword of his Spirit of righteousnesse in the dutyes of the second Table no more then to assist the Sword of the Spirit of holynesse in the dutyes of the first Table The Law of Righteousnesse is as fully and plainly written by the Spirit of God in the hearts and Consciences of men as is the Law of holynesse yea and more too And yet the Discusser doth not for ought I know make it a needlesse matter for God to accept the helpe of the materiall Sword to assist the Spirit of Righteousnesse in the affaires of Conscience which pertaine to the second Table The truth is God needeth not the Arme of flesh to help him that is he needeth not any help which the wisdome or strength of the creature can invent or bring forth which himselfe appointed not But yet God thinkes it no dishonour to himselfe to make use of his owne Ordinances in their owne bounds to his owne ends Nor doeth he then need them when he useth them but wee need such helps for the performance of our duty both to God and man Which made it a cursed sin in Meroz not to come out to help the Lord Iudge 5 23. Nor will it hence follow that such Magistrates as are chosen to help forward the work of God in matters of Religion that either themselves or the Common-wealth that chooseth them must needs have power and Authority from Christ to sit Iudge and to determine in all great controversies of Religion in Doctrine Discipline and Government It is enough that they are called of God to be wise and learned in the service of Christ and in the wayes of his Kingdome Psal 2.10 11 12. which if they have learned they ought to rule with him and for him or else how shall it be fulfilled which is written of them The Kingdomes of the world are become the Kingdomes of the Lord and of his Christ and he shall reigne for ever Rev. 7.15 Yea in this case it is learning enough if they know the Principles and Foundations of Religion and can discerne the Arrogancy of a tumultuous spirit after conviction For such want not judgement to censure Apostacy to Heresie in doctrine to Idolatry in worship to Tyranny in Government Discusser But then I aske whether upon this ground it must not evidently follow that then either there is no Common-wealth nor Civill State of men in the world that is not qualified with this discerning and then the Common-wealth hath more light concerning the Church then the Church it selfe Or that the Common-wealth and Magistrates thereof must judge and punish as they are perswaded in their owne beleife and Conscience be their Conscience Paganish Turkish or Antichristian And what is this but to confound Heaven and Earth together and to take away not onely the being of Christianity out of the world but all civility yea the world out of the world and to lay all upon heaps of confusion Defender See what strange effects a strong fancy can produce would you not think it must be some strange and strong paradox that if it be graunted shall produce such strange and strong effects as to take away the being of Christianity out of the world yea and all civility yea and the world out of the world But when men have slept a while and strong fancyes are evaporated the world will stand where it is and civility stand in the world and Christianity in civility I say therefore that which no sober minde can contradict that though Magistrates be bound to become wise and learned to know Christ and to establish the Religion of Christ yet it will not as the Discusser saith evidently follow no nor follow at all That then there is no law full Commonwealth nor Civill State of men in the world which is not qualified with this spirituall discerning For though it be the duty of Civill States thus to be qualified yet their want of such qualifications doth not make them unlawfull States Many due qualifications are required in Husbands Wives Children Servants Magistrates Churches the want of which maketh them defective and sinfull but doth not make them unlawfull This will need no proofe to any sober minde Muchlesse will it follow upon the former Premises that the very Common-wealth hath then more light concerning the Church of Christ then the Church it selfe For it is a weake Church that knowes no more light then Principles And what light the Common-wealth hath it may have received from the Church Howsoever the Magistrates power to establish the Religion of Christ doth no way inferre That he that establisheth that Religion which is professed in the Church hath more light concerning that Religion or any part of it then the Church it selfe Albeit it is not impossible nor is it absurd that sometime the Magistrate may have more light in matters of Religion then the Church it selfe David for ought wee read was the first that discerned the disorder in Carting the Arke of God 1 Chron. 15.2 And Hezekiah was the first that prevented the Preists and Levits and the whole Church in the worke of Reformation from the Apostacy of Ahaz 2 Chron. 29.4 to 11. But there is no colour of consequence that because Magistrates are bound to discerne and know the will of Christ and to serve him with their power That therefore such as have no discerning of Christ nor of his holy will That they should punish and destroy Christ and Christians and seeke only to advance their owne Religion which is but Idolatry and Superstition CHAP. 70. A Reply to his Chap. 73. Discussing the Testimony of Luther Discusser LUthers Testimony saith the Answerer reacheth to two things neither of which we deny First that the Government of the civill Magistrate reacheth no further then to the bodies and goods of their Subjects not over their soules and therefore they may not undertake to give Lawes
words accordingly so much false dealing For 1. Admonition is one thing Conviction in their owne Conscience is another For though Admonition ought not to be dispensed till after conviction yet it may fall out that the Church through mistake proceedeth to Admonition before the Offender be convinced in his own Conscience of the sinfulnesse of his way 2. He carrieth my words as if they who yeeld not to once or twice Admonition must needs be esteemed obstinate persons whereas I onely say they will not persist in Heresie that is in obstinacy of Fundamentall Error nor in turbulent Schisme when they are convinced in Conscience of the sinfulnesse thereof 3. He propoundeth my words generally as if I had said that godly persons in whatsovever Error they hold if they yeeld not to once or twice Admonition they must needs be esteemed obstinate whereas I spake not of every Error but of persisting in Heresie and turbulent Schisme But you may see how farre the love of an Error and desire of contention will transport the minde and spirit The two stories that he telleth upon this occasion in his next words because he nameth neither time nor persons nor occasions of the speeches which he representeth as odious a short Answer will serve to them 1. I have too much experience of the Discussers mistakes of permanent Printed words and therefore am affraid to credit every report of transient words spoken without further Testimony 2. The words might be spoken by some persons concerning others upon such occasions as I will by no meanes excuse or justifie but they might be spoken upon such weights as might justly hold weight in the Ballance of the Sanctuary The latter part of my Answer which he saith cometh not neere the Question I now understand so much by the Discusser but it did not so appeare to me by the Author of the Letter Discusser Mr. Cotton concludeth with a consident perswasion of having removed the grounds of that great Error viz. that persons are not to be persecuted for cause of Conscience Defender How hard a thing is it to write against the Truth and yet to speake with a lip of Truth Compare the words of my conclusion with the Discussers relation or representation thereof The words of my conclusion were these Thus much I thought needfull to be spoken for the avoyding of the grounds of your Error 1. Then let him speake what words of mine doe expresse the confidence of my perswasion It is true I belâ—ive and therefore speake what I have written but wherein did I blow up my beleife to a confident perswasion I thank God I doubt not of the truth of what I have written but it is one thing what I conceive in my minde another thing what I thinke meet to expresse 2. I doe not say in this conclusion that I have removed the grounds of his Error but that I have spoken so much for that end but whether I have done it or no according to the helpe of Christ received I leave others to judge 3. The name of a great Error is foisted in by himselfe ad exaggerandam gloriationis invidiam et indignitatem but though the Error be indeed great yet I did not so stile it when I spake of mine owne endeavour to remove the grounds of it 4. It is an evident falshood that I should conclude This to be that great Error That persons are not to be persecuted for cause of Conscience For it is that which in stating the Question I did in expresse termes deny that any was to be persecuted for cause of Conscience no not an Heretick no not in a Church-way much lesse in a civill way till being convinced in his owne Conscience of his wickednesse he do stand out therein not only against the Truth but against the light of his owne Conscience that so it may appeare he is not persecuted for cause of Conscience but punished for sinning against his Conscience Onely this I now further adde which I know not whether I had not occasion to speake to in this Discourse hitherto unlesse in a touch that sometime it may be an aggravation of sinne both in judgement and practise that a man holdeth it or committeth it in Conscience But that is onely in case when a man hath been wonted to sin so oft against his light and against the cleare Principles of Truth and godlinesse that it may appeare the just curse of God hath given him up to a reprobate-blinded-minde and seared Conscience But of that wee have not had occasion to dispute in this Discourse Discusser But I beleive it shall appeare That the charge of Error Reboundeth backc even such an Error as may be called the Bloudy-Tenent Defender I hope It hath by this time appeared in the former dispute through the blessing of Christ That that which he calleth the Bloudy-Tenent is washed white in the bloud of the Lambe and tendeth both to the ends for which the Prince of peace dyed viz. To the saving of his sheep from devouring to the dissolving of the cursed works of Satan to the maintenance of his Truth and to the preservation of sacred and civill peace both in Churches and Common-wealth CHAP. 78. A Reply to his Chap. 81. Defender TO the last Chapter of the Discusser I thinke it not worth the while to speake any thing it consisting cheifly of the Discussers selfe-applauses and vaine-glorious Triumphs As that he knoweth That the God the Spirit and Prince the Angells of peace and that all the true awaked sonnes of peace will call the Truth be meaneth this Doctrine of Toleration held forth by himselfe blessed That the contemplations thereof are sweet and pretious but Ob how sweet the actions and Fruitions That these lips of Truth to wit distilling in his Pen drop as the honey Combe Honey and milke are under her Tongue and oh that these drops these streames might flow without interruption Onely one passage of his glorious boasting I may not let passe without some Animad version because the Name of Christ is interested in it and dishonoured by it Discusser Were I saith he beleived in this That Christ is not delighted with the bloud of men but shed his owne bloud for his bloudyest enemies That by the word of Christ No man for gainsaying Christ or joyning with his enemy Antichrist should be molested with the Civill sword were this foundation laid and the Magna Charta of highest Liberties and good security given on all hands for the preservation of it How soone would every Brow and House be stuck with Olive Branches Whether this be not to Conclude with confident perswasion the same and farre greater then that which he noted in me even now I matter not Let him reserve conclusions with confident perswasions to himselfe alone Had he ground from the eternall word of Truth for such confidence It would never trouble me nor hurt him But this is not pleasing to Christ nor to the Spirit of his
those words Come out of Babel my People locall separation be intended yet when he addeth Lest yee be partakers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 her sinnes I beleeve spirituall separation is much more required and locall separation as a meanes the better to attaine that end of spirituall separation from partaking in her sinnes Which may also cleare the meaning of the Text and the fraud of the Examiner For the words are not as he alledgeth them Come out of Babel my people Partake not of her sinnes For so the latter part might be an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or explanation of the former Coming out of Babel might be all one with Partake not of her sinnes But the words of the Text be Come out of her my People that yee be not partaker of her sinnes Which plainly argueth that coming out of Babel locally is a meanes to prevent partaking in her sinnes spiritually It is true which he saith The Lord Jesus hath broken downe all difference of Places Joh. 4. and all difference of Persons Acts 10. To wit in regard of ceremoniall pollution or ceremoniall holinesse But if he thinke there is no difference between one Citie or Countrey more then another in morall pollutions of Idolatry superstition unrighteousnesse and uncleannesse he maketh himselfe a greater stranger both to the Word and to the world then I did thinke he had been The two causes of Gods Indignation against England which he suggesteth are worthy due consideration and attention I would rather say Amen to them then weaken the weight of them Onely I should so assent to the latter as not to moove for a Toleration of all Dissenters Dissenters in Fundamentalls and that out of obstinacy against conscience and Seducers to the perdition of soules and to the disturbance of Civill and Church-Peace but onely of such Dissenters as vary either in matters of lesse weight or of fundamentall yet not out of wilfull obstinacy but out of tendernesse of Conscience As for the Controversie which the Examiner saith He hath with me Whether false worship be not onely locall but a spirituall Guilt and not onely a Guilt but also an Habit c. I doe acknowledge no such controversie between us I wholly consent with him in the Point Onely I doe not beleeve all that to be either a Guilt or an Habit of false worship which he doth imagine but in his termes I accord TO CHAP. XVI HIs 16th Chapter is taken up in Examining and Answering the Exposition which my Letter gave of that Text formerly alledged 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. Of which I said 1. That the Text onely requireth Coming out from Idolaters in the fellowship of their Idolatry No Marriages were they to make with them No Feasts were they to hold with them in the Idolls Temples No intimate Familiaritie were they to maintaine with them Nor any Fellowship were they to keepe with them in the unfruitfull workes of Darknesse And this is all which the place requireth But what maketh all this to proove that we may not receive such Persons to Church-fellowship as our selves confesse to be godly and who doe professedly bewaile and renounce all knowne sinne and would renounce more if they knew more Although it may be they doe not see the utmost skirts of all that pollution they have sometimes been defiled with as the Patriarchs saw not the pollution of their Polygamy In Answer to this the Examiner telleth us 1. That if the regenerate and prepenting English did come thus farre forth it would availe much to the sanctifying of the Name of the Lord Jesus to the pacifying of his jealousie c. Reply But this is no Answer at all unlesse he did assume that our repenting English did not come thus farre forth Therefore he giveth for another Answer that which is indeed but a part of this That according to the former Distinction of Godly Persons who possibly may live in ungodly practises especially of false worship And then according to Mr. Cottons Interpretation they come not forth Reply That former Distinction hath been considered above and weighed but hath been found impertinent to the case in hand The Examiner neither doth nor ever will make it good That the Godly persons amongst us doe live in any ungodly practises of false worship Nor doe they take his Affirmation without any mention of Scripture-ground for a sufficient conviction But saith he if there be any voyce of Christ in the mouths of his witnesses against these sinnes they are not then of ignorance but negligence and spirituall hardnesse against the wayes of Gods seare Isai 63. c. Reply If there be saith he any voyce of Christ in the mouths of his witnesses against these sinnes c. If there be he doth not say there be And if there were how doth it appeare that their voyce is the voyce of Christ or that they be the witnesses of Christ in whose mouths this voyce is How easie had it been for the Examiner if he himselfe knew any such voyce of Christ in the mouths of any of his witnesses against these sinnes of false worship which our godly Brethren doe live in to have alledged the same and the word of Christ which might have been witnesse to the voyce of those witnesses But these Ifs and Overtures will neither convince nor edifie others nor justifie himselfe Besides what if there be some witnesses have testified against the false worship in England and against the hearing of those Ministers by reason of that false worship What if the Godly Persons of whom he speaketh here are not so ignorant but they know what those witnesses have said nor so negligent but they have duly considered and pondered the same and weighing it in the Ballance of the Scriptures have found it too light Is it spirituall hardnesse to choose rather to feare God and his Word then to feare the false Interpretations and Applications of it by the spirit of Error The word of the Lord wee reverence and acknowledge Come not yee to Gilgall neither goe yee up to Bethaven But doe wee come to Gilgall or goe up to Bethaven when we heare the word of the Lord from the godly Preachers in the Parishes in England If such alledgements of Scripture may goe for the voyce of Christ in the mouths of his witnesses we shall soone forget the Counsell of Solomon Cease my Sonne to heare the Instruction which causeth to erre from the words of knowledge Pro. 19.27 The Apostle John hath long since directed us Hereby know we the spirit of Truth and the spirit of Error He that knoweth God heareth us that is the Apostles and those that preach their Doctrine He that is not of God heareth us not 1 Joh. 4.6 But for another Answer the Examiner proceedeth Moreover saith he the Question is not of the utmost skirts of pollution but the substance of a true and false Bed of worship Cant. 1.16 In respect of coming out of the false before the entrance
Discusser IF it be said neither the Roman Caesar nor Herod nor Pilate knew ought of the true God or of Christ and it had been in vaine to have made complaint to them who were not fit and competent but ignorant and opposite Judges Answ 1. This removeth the stumbling blocke of Pauls appeale to Caesar which since he could not doe in common sence as to a competent Judge in such cases c. It must needes follow his appeale was meerely in respect of his civill wrongs c. Answ 2. If it had been an Ordinance of God that all civill Magistrates were bound to judge in causes spirituall and Christian as to suppresse Heresies to defend the Faith of Jesus although that Caesar Herod and Pontius Pilate were ignorant wicked and opposite Judges yet Christ and his Disciples should have gone as farre as lay in their power for redressing of evill and left it in the Magistrates hands Answ 3. If it had been the holy will of God to have established the Doctrine and Kingdome of his Sonne this way he would have furnished Kingdomes and Common-wealths with many good and gracious Magistrates to have fitted them for it Defender Reply 1. to Ans 1. Pauls appeale to Caesar was about the wrongs done unto the Jewes Acts 25.10 The wrongs to them were not onely civill but Church-offences which Paul denied Neither against the Law of the Jewes saith he nor against the Temple nor against Caesar have I offended any thing at all ver 8. Festus demanded if he would goe up to Hierusalem there to be judged of these things ver 9. These things were matters of Religion as well as civill offences To offend against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple were offences against Religion to offend against Caesar was a civill offence To be judged of these things Paul declineth the Court at Hierusalem as being unjustly prejudiced against him But professing his owne innocency and subjection to just judgement He appealeth to Caesars judgement seate ver 10 11. wherein three or foure things doe evidently appeare 1. That a man may be such an offender in matters of Religion against the Law of God against the Church as well as in civill matters against Caesar as to be worthy of death This Paul presupposeth ver 8 9 10. 2. That Paul or any other such like servant of Christ If he should commit any such offence he would not refuse judgement unto death ver 11. 3. That for the Judgement of his person in these causes whether ecclesiasticall or civill It is lawfull in some cases to appeale to a civill though a Pagan Magistrate In some cases I say as where both these concurre to wit 1. That Church-officers are maliciously prejudiced against a man and inferiour civil Courts incline to them 2. That a man be called in question amongst them in capitall causes which concerne his life But a fourth thing which appeareth from Pauls appeale is this That the civill Magistrate whether Christian or Pagan may and ought to be so well acquainted not onely with civill causes but also with causes of Religion especially such as concerne life as to be able to judge though not of all questions yet of capitall offences against Religion as well as against the civill State Reply 2. to Ans 2. The Marginall Note seemeth to imply a contradiction to it selfe for thus it speaketh Civill Magistrates were never appointed by God Defenders of the Faith of Jesus And againe Every one is bound to put forth himselfe to his utmost power in Gods Businesse Surely if every one be bound to put forth himselfe to his utmost power in Gods Businesse then civill Magistrates are bound to put forth their civill power in defending the Faith of Jesus Neither will it henceforth follow That either Christ or his Disciples were bound to complaine to Caesar or to Herod or to Pontius Pilate against the Heresies of the Pharises For though all Magistrates even Pagans ought to informe themselves in the matters of Faith and of Christian Religion that they may observe and preserve it and it will be a destructive sinne to them and their States if they doe neglect it Psal 2.10 11 12. Yet it may be safer for a Christian man being oppressed in inferiour Courts of hereticall malignant Judges to appeale from them unto Pagan Princes in his owne just defence then to make complaint to malignant hereticall Judges or to Pagan Princes against heresies or hereticall false Teacliers Christ sent out his Disciples as sheepe amongst wolves and therefore instructed them to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves Matth. 10.16 Now it is no part of wisedome for a sheepe of Christ to complaine to a kennell of wolves That amongst the wolves there be some of their company doe make havocke of the sheepe leading them aside into damnable heresies If a poore sheepe should attempt such a thing would not the whole kennell of wolves arise up against him as a troubler of their State that when he enjoyeth peace himselfe they trouble not him yet he will needes be so busie as to trouble them And therefore we deny that it had tended to the defence of the Faith of Jesus or to the suppressing Herisies for Christ and his Disciples to have complained to Herod Pilate Caesar of the heresies of the Pharises It had rather tended to the disturbance and suppression of the Faith of Jesus by provoking the malice of the Pharises and by disquieting civill Thrones with feares and jealousies of a new Kingdome springing up amongst them Besidâ—â— it had been altogether preposterous to make use of the civill power for the first publishing of the Gospell of peace It was necessary the Gospell should first be knowne and received and beleeved and professed before any could be complained of for Apostacy from it into Heresie or seducement of others into such wickednesse Reply 3. to Ans 3. We doe not say It is the holy Will and Purpose of God to establish the Doctrine and Kingdome of his Sonne our Lord Jesus onely this way to wit by the helpe of civill Authority For it is his Will also to magnifie his Power in establishing the same by a contrary way even by the sufferings patient sufferings of his Saints and by the bloudy swords of persecuting Magistrates Revel 12.11 So that Christ need not to send good and gracious Magistrates as if for want of them the Christian Faith and Religion would fall to the ground for it hath spread and flourished under fiery and cruell persecution But yet this hindreth not but that it is the duty of Magistrates to know the Sonne and to kisse him to acknowledge his Kingdome and submit their Thrones and Crownes to it to love his truth and to be nursing Fathers to his Church Isai 49.23 which how they can doe and yet not be Defenders of the Faith of Jesus I doe not understand CHAP. 31. A Reply to his thirteenth Chapter discussing by the way the
of it For may it not justly be conceived That the Lord therefore hid the place of his buriall least the Children of Israel knowing it might goe a whoring after his Sepulchre and it may be offer sweet incense upon it and so such false worship against the law of Moses might come to be Tolerated for honor to the body of Moses But Christ hath abolished a Nationall State or Church which Moses set up in Canaan Though Christ abolished a Nationall Church-State and instead thereof set up a Congregationall Church yet Christ never abolished a Nationall Civill State nor the Judiciall Lawes of Moses which were of Morall equity but established them rather in their place and order He that shed his own bloud to plant his Church did never abolish that Law which enacted that his bloud should be upon him who should supplant his Church If Christs bloud goe to plant it let the false Christs bloud goe for supplanting it Discusser In the King of Bohemias speech the Answerer passeth by that Foundation in grace and Nature that Conscienee ought not to be violated and forced it is a spirituall Rape Defender This was not passed by but prevented in stating the Question where it was said it is not lawfull to censure any no not for error in Fundamentall points of Doctrine or Worship till the Conscience of the offendor be first convinced out of the word of God of the dangerous error of his way and then if he still persist It is not out of Conscience but against his Conscience as the Apostle saith Tit. 3.11 so he is not persecuted for cause of Conscience but punished for sinning against his Conscience Discusser The King observeth that most lamentably true experience of all ages That persecution for cause of Conscience hath ever proved pernicious c. Defender No experience in any age did ever prove it pernicious to punish seducing Apostates after due conviction of the error of their way Wherein did the burning of Servetus prove pernicious to Geneva or the just execution of many popish Preists to Queene Elizabeth or to the english State But the Kings speech may passe if it be meant of persecution properly so called to wit Oppression of the faithfull for the Truths sake yea if it be the punishment of any for error If not Fundamentally pernicious either to Religion or Church-order and that after conviction of Conscience persisted in with obstinacy Discusser Lastly the Kings observation of his owne time that Persecution for cause of Conscience was practised most in England and such places where Popery reigned Implying as I conceive such practises commonly proceed from the great Whore whose Daughters are like their Mother all of a bloudy nature as commonly all wolves be Defender It is no marvell if I passed by this observation in the Kings speech For there is no such observation there to be found If the Discusser had well observed it himselfe he would have found it was not the speech of the King but of the Prisoner And the persecution he speaketh of was not of Antichristians or Hereticks or Idolaters but onely of such as the world nick-named Puritans or the like and of them too without conviction of the error of their way But in that the Discusser maketh England a Daughter of the great Whore and of a bloudy nature like her Mother he speaketh as some other of the rigid Seperation have done before him But I could never yet see awarrant from the rule either of Truth or Love for such a speech Did ever the holy Scripture call any Church an whore that worshipped the true God onely in the Name of Jesus and depended on him alone for righteousnesse and salvation Is it not the part of a base childe or at least a base pare of a childe to call his Mother whore who bred him and bred him to know no other Father but her lawfull Husband the Lord Jesus Christ CHAP. 60. A Reply to his 63. Chap. Discusser NOw Thirdly In that the Answerer observeth that amongst the Romane Emperors they that did not persecute were Julian the Apostate and Valens the Arian Whereas the good Emperors Constantine Gratian Valentian and Theodosius they did persecute the Arians and Donatists Let it be for an Answer It is no new thing for godly and eminently godly men to performe ungodly actions nor for ungodly persons for wicked ends to act what in it selfe is good and righteous c. Defender This may goe for a truth but not for an Answer The Letter would Justifie Toleration of Religion from the judgement and speeches of three Kings I Answered that was no Argument for I could bring him Kings more in number and greater in the sight of God and man who judged it meet not to tolerate Hereticks nor turbulent Schismaticks To this the Discusser Answereth sometimes the Godly doe that which is evill and the wicked that which is good This I say is a Truth but doth not take away my Answer but by a Petitio Principij a begging of the Question That Kings alledged by him did that which was good but the Kings alledged by me though better persons did that which was evill CHAP. 61. A Reply to his Chap. 64. Discusser THe unknowing zeale of Constantine and other Emperors did more hurt to Christ Jesus his Church and Kingdome then the raging fury of the most bloudy Neroes In the persecution of those wicked Emperors Christians were sweet and fragrant like spice pounded in Morters But those good Emperors persecuting some erroneous persons and advancing the Professors of some truthes and maintaining their Religion by the materiall Sword by this meanes Christianity was eclipsed The Professors of it fell asleepe Cant. 5. Babel was usher'd in and by degrees the Churches of the Saints were turned into the Wildernesse of whole Nations Rev. 12.13 untill the whole world became Christian or Christendome Those good Emperors intending to exalt Christ but not attending to the command of Christ Jesus to permit the Tares to grow in the Field of the world they made the Garden of the Church and Field of the world all one c. Defender If the unknowing zeale of Constantine other Christian Emperors did more hurâ— to the Church then the raging fury of bloudy Neroes It was not because the raging fury of those Persecutors was more accepted of God then this unknowing zeale of the good Emperors For though the unknowing zeale of the one was finfull yet it was the friut of humane frialty Error Amoris But the rage of the others was divelish fury Amor Erroris Besides the unknowing zeale of the good Emperors lay not in punishing notorious Hereticall Seducers nor will the Discusser be ever able to shew that the Church of Christ suffered any hurt at all by that meanes The contrary is evident Constantius and Valens by Tolerating and favoring the Arians the whole world became Arian Ingemuit orbis Christianus et miratus est factum se esse Arianum
Now whether be the greater mischeife the whole world to become Arian or to become Christian Let Christians judge The Discusser indeed speaketh of it as a soliscisme in Religion that the whole world should become Christian and quoteth for it Rev. 12. and 13. But Rev. 12. speaketh nothing to the purpose and Revel 13. speaketh of it as a marveilous evill that the whole world should wonder after the Beast ver 3. But their wondering after the Beast not a becoming Christian for they were that before nor did it spring onely from the unknowing zeale of Christian Emperors in persecuting Apostate Hereticks But rather from their sinful Indulgence in the Toleration of Hereticks in Doctrine and Idolaters in Worship For had they been zealous and watchfull against such how is it possible that ever Antichrist should have been hatched up to carry the world after him into such a notorious Apostacy It was not persecution that made the world Christian but Toleration that made the world Antichristian Furthermore the hurt of the unknowing zeale of good Emperors did to the Church came in also another way by advancing Church-Officers to Mountaines of high preferments and settled indowments Rev. 8.8 9. The Church never tooke hurt by the punishment of Hereticks Moreover when God advanced Constantine and other good Emperors to sit on the Throne It is true the Church soone became a wildernesse but that came not to passe because those Emperors forced Pagans into Church-Fellowship by the materiall Sword as the Discusser intimateth but untruly But because the common sort are willing to follow the example of great ones Regis ad exemplum totus componitur Orbis as also because of the sleepinesse of the watchmen the Elders of the Churches who should not have suffered such store of Tares to come into the communion of the Church Had the world renounced their Paganisme and professed Christ to be the Sonne of God but yet had been kept out of the Fellowship of the Church till they had approved their profession by a sincere Christian conversation It had been no soliscisme at all howsoever the Discusser judge of it though the whole world had been come Christian and stiled Christendome But it is too grosse and palpable a mistake to make this the cause why the Garden of the Church and the Field of the world became all one because the zeale of Christian Emperors intending to exalt Christ did not attend to the command of Christ to permit the Tares to grow in the Field of the world For they did permit them to live in the Field of the world they seldome or never put any to death for Hereticall pravity though it had bin better they had so done with some of them But onely exiled them from such Cities and Countryes as were most Populous where if they had continued they might have had too great an opportunity of spreading their leaven which as the Apostle speaketh fretteth like a Gangrene 1 Tim. 2.17 CHAP. 62. A Reply to his Chap. 65. Discusser I Desire you to glance your eye on this not unworthy observation how fully this Answere hath learned the Language of Lyon like Persecution c. for thus he writeth more and greater Princes then these you mention have not Tolerated Hereticks and Schismatiks notwithstanding their pretence of Conscience and their Arrogating the Crowne of Martyrdome to their sufferings T is true these termes Hereticks or wilfully obstinate and Schismaticks are used in holy writ t is true also that such pretend Conscience and Arrogate the Crowne of Martyrdome to their sufferings But this is the common clamour of Persecutors against the witnesses of Jesus in all ages you are Hereticks Schismaticks factious Seditious rebellious Defender If it be true that these be Scripture termes and by his owne acknowledgement truly applyable to Hereticks and Schismaticks then it seemeth the Discusser hath learned this Language of Ashdod that the Scripture it self and Truth it selfe speaketh the roaring Language of Lyon-like Persecution For he acknowledgeth the Scripture useth the same termes and Truth verefieth the same things In Summe It is as much to say as Paul had learned the roaring and railing Language of Lyon-like Pharoah Pharoah told the Children of Israel yee are idle yee are idle Exod. 5.17 And Paul had learned to say as much to the Cretians by his Letter to Titus The Cretians are alwayes liars evill beasts and flow bellyes Tit. 1.12 But is it so indeed may not the same reproofe unjustly cast upon Gods servants be justly applyed to Gods enemies wâ—en by the Discussers owne confessiâ—n it may be applyed truly If Persecutors misapply Scripture Termes rebukes to Christs Witnesses falsely may not a servant of God apply the same truly as the Scripture applyeth them but he shall be thought to learne to speake not the Language of Scripture but the Language of persecutors Discusser Ob it is hard for Gods Children to fall to Opinion and practise of Persecution without ready learning the Language thereof And doubtlesse that soule that can so readily learne Babels Language hath cause to feare that he hath not yet in Point of Worship left the gates or suburbs of it Defender If this Language used by me be the Termes of Scripture and by the acknowledgement of Truth rightly applyed then it is the Language of Canaan and not of Babel What Language they have learned who in point of Worship have left Zion but not the gates and Suburbs of Babel for they set up Bulwaâ—ks of Impunity to secure them Let themselves in the feare of God confider But what Language is it to speake of me as having learned the opinion practise of persecution I desiâ—e the God of Truth to teach him to know It is the Language of him that stood not in the Truth and of such also as call evill good and good evill Discusser Againe in blaming Julian the Apostate and Valens the Arian for Tolerating all weeds to grow he noteth their sinfull end that thereby they might choake the vitalls of Christianity and seemeth herein to consent on a speech of Jerome That the weeds of false Religions tolerated have a Power to kill true Christianity in the Church But when Christianity began to be choaked It was not when Christians lodged in cold Prisons but Downe-Beds of ease and Persecuted others Defender I noted indeed the sinfull end of Julian the Apostate in tolerating all Religions and Heresies to aime at the choaking of the vitalls of Christianity Of Valens I noted the like finfull practise of Tolerating all Religions but did not expresse his end But what I spake of the end concerned Julian and I spâ—ke of it not of mine owne imagination though he that shall read the stories of his Apostacy and malignity against the Name of Christ and Christians might easily beleive and speake it without rashnesse but I speake it out of a grave and judicious Authour who lived neere those times I meane Aligustine who in his 166
Religion may not be propagated by the civill Sword Vnto which I Reply what meaneth then this passage in his first Answer to the former speeches of the Kings viz. We acknowledge that none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the Truth of it Defender If it be observed my Agreement with Hilary then let it be observed that the Discusser in whetting the words of the Authors of the Letter against us layeth a false charge upon us as if we maintained such persecution for cause of Conscience as is condemned by the Ancient Writers Of whom Hilary is named for one and for the first and yet in the Discussion it is found that we agree with him In that Answer to the speeches of the Kings when I acknowledged that none was to be constrained to beleive or professe the true Religion till he be convinced of the Truth of it I did not meane that after he was convinced he might then be constrained with civill censfures for neither beleiving nor professing to beleive is to be constrained with civill censures But yet thus farre he may be constrained by withholding such countenance and favour from him such encouragement and employment from him as a wise and discerning Prince would otherwise grant to such as beleive the Truth and professe it so far as they are convinced of it in Judgement and Conscience For such as will not walke according to their Light are neither trusty servants to God nor man Discusser That Answer to the speech of the Kings implyeth two things 1. That the civill Magistrate who is to constraine must judge of all the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no. 2. That when the civill Magistrate discerneth that his Subjects Consciences are convinced then he may constraine them vi armis hostilely And accordingly who knoweth not what constraint lyeth upon all Consciences in Old and New-England to come to Church and to pay Church-Duties which is upon the point though with a Sword of a finer gilt and trim in New-England nothing else but that which he confesseth Hilary saith should not be done to wit a Propagation of Religion by the Sword Defender Neither of both these things are implyed in that Answer Not the first that the civill Magistrate must then Judge of all of the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no For it implyeth no more then that he is not to constraine them till he see they be convinced If he never see them convinced he is to see they be never constrained But how far the Magistrate may discerne and judge in matters of Religion hath been spoken above Nor the second For the constraint I spake of was not by positive meanes vi Armis but negative withholding such trust and employment from such as he seeth are not faithfull and trusty to their God of whose Truth they are convinced and yet withhold it in unrighteousnesse I know no constraint at all that lieth upon the consciences of any in New-England to come to Church neither doe I know that any scruple lyeth upon any Conscience in New-England that withholdeth any from hearing the word amongst us But least of all doe I know that any are constrayned to pay Church-duties in New-EnglaÌ„d Sure I am none in our own Town neither Church-members nor other are constrained to pay any Church-duties at all What they pay they give voluntarily each one with his owne hand without any constraint at all but their owne will as the Lord directs them Discusser Againe although he confesseth that Propagation of Religion ought not to be by the Sword yet he maintaineth the use of the Sword when persons in the Judgment of the Civill State for that is implyed shall blaspheme the true God and the true Religion and also seduce others to damnable Heresie and Idolatry Defender True but this is not the Propagation of Religion but the preservation of it or if it doe conduce to Propagation it is onely removendo probibens CHAP. 67. A Reply to his Chap. 70. Discussing the Testimony of Tertullian Discusser TO Tertullian the Answerer giveth the like Answer Tertullians Intent saith he is onely to restraine Scapula the Romane Governour of Africa from persecuting the Christians for not offering Sacrifice to their Heathen Gods and for that end fetcheth an Argument from the Law of Naturall Equity not to compell any to any Religion but to permit them to beleive or not to beleive at all Which we acknowledge we judge the English may permit the Indians to continue in their unbeliefe Neverthelesse it will not therefore be lawfull to tolerate the publick worship of Devils or Idols in a Christian State or the seduction of any from the Truth In this passage he agreeth with Tertullian but it is well known that in New-England they not onely permit the Indians to continue in their unbeleife which they cannot help but they also permit or tolerate them in their Paganish worship which cannot be denyed to be a worshipping of Devils And therefore consequently according to the same practise did they walke by Rule and impartially not onâ—â— the Indians but their Countrymen French Dutch Spanish Per … Turkes Jewes should also be permitted in their Worships if correspondent in civill obedience Defender It is not true that the New-English doe tolerate the Indians who have submitted to the English protection and Government in their worship of Devils openly What the Indians doe that are not under the English Government the English have no warrant from God or Law of Nations to restraine them nor is it in the power of the English to restraine the private Worship which some of the Indians under the English Government may possibly adhere unto the this day What courses have been used to bring them on to Civility and to the knowledge of our Religion by faire meanes are not pertinent to the present controversie to relate It hath been an Article of the Covenant between such Indians as have submitted to our Government that they shall submit to the ten Commandements which they thought reasonable Some of their Sachims young children are brought up with us and trained up to knowledge Such of them as come to our Houses are fed with curtesie and care taken often to instruct them as farre yea further then they are greatly willing to heare Some of them of late frequent our markets to get mony by selling Fish Baskets whortleberries Cramberries which taketh them off from some idlenesse Some English are studious of the Indian Language to deale with them in their owne Tongue Of late some of our Ministers have preached to a Congregation of them whil'st others at first interpreted what was preached but since one of our Ministers preacheth to them in their owne Language The other day whil'st I was at the Colledge with other Elders an Indian from Plimmouth side an hopefull youth was received into some employment in
wisdome and Truth that the Disousser should publish the delights of Christ in a confussed way without distinguishing things that differ and so not dividing the Word aright It is true that Christ delighteth not in the bloud of men but shed his owne for his bloudiest enemies and gainsayers to wit whilst they gainsaying him and bloudily persecute him or his out of ignorance In this case indeed he prayeth for them and dieth for them Father forgive them they know not what they doe Luk. 23.34 whilest wee were enemies Christ died for us Rom. 5.8 10. But to say that Christ delighteth not in the bloud of men who after the acknowledgement of his Truth doe tread the bloud of his Covenant under foote and wittingly and willingly reject him from reigning over them To hold it forth that Christ delighteth not in the bloud of such men or that he would not have such molested by the civill Sword who gainsay Christ known and professed and joyn with his enemy Antichrist in blaspheming and persecuting Christ and his Saints This the Discusser can never make good to be the word of Christ It is indeed to publish the glad Tidings of the Gospel not to the humble and meeke Lambes of Christ but to the seed of the Serpent to sow pillowes under all elbowes to make the hearts of the righteous sad whom God would not make sad and to strengthen the hands of the wicked in their Apostacy from the truth and malignity against it Christ hath pronounced it upon earth and ratifyed it in Heaven Those mine enemies that would not that I should reigne over them bring them hither and slay them before my face Luk. 19.27 Are these the words of him that delighteth not in the bloud of his bloudyest enemies and gainsayers when the Lord Jesus sendeth forth his servants to powre out bloudy vengeance upon Antichristian emissaries and openeth the hearts mouthes of his Saints to praise him for thus judging Rev. 16.4 7 Is this to proclaime a Magna-Charta of highest libertyes even to his gainsayers and to such as joyn with his enemy Antichrist Time was when Jehu justly demanded What peace what hast thou to doe with peace so long as the whor domes of thy Mother Jezebel and her witcherafts are so many 2 Kings 9.22 And are the times now so farre changed that the Sword of Jebu shall proclaime peace to Jezebel and peace to all that call her mother and peace to her whoredomes and peace to her witchcrafts and then to blesse our selves with a glorious expectation That soone shall every Brow and house be stucke with O live branches The Lord keepe us from being bewitched with the Whores cup lest whilst wee seeme to detest and reject her with open face of profession wee doe not bring her in by a back doore of Toleration and so come at last to drink deepely of the cup of the Lords wrath and be filled with the cup of her plagues Amen CHAP. 79. Touching the Modell of Church and civill Power composed by Mr. Cotton and the Ministers of New-England and sent to the Church of Salem c. Examined by the Discusser and Answered THis Title or Inscription which the Examiner setteth up of this Modell holdeth forth to the world a double falshood 1. That the Modell was composed by Mr. Cotton and other Ministers of New-England This is one falshood What other Ministers of New-England did in it themselves know But for Mr. Cotton I know that he was none of them that composed it 2. That this Modell was sent to the Church of Salem if he meane sent by those Ministers as the following words imply for the confirmation of their Doctrine that is another falshood The Ministers themselves that composed the Modell doe deny it Howsoever the Modell came to Salem the Ministers say it was not sent by them But see when men are left of God openly and boldly to write against the truth in matter of Doctrin how readily and freely they can write and speake falshood in matter of fact It is therefore lesse marvell that in Answer to the preface of the Modell he breaketh forth into such vast hyperboles That the Modell awakeneth Meses from his unknowne Grave and denyeth Jesus yet to have seen the earth A speech as devoid of reason as of truth The observation of Moses Lawes doth not awaken Moses out of his grave nor is there any reason it should The validity of Lawes doth not in reason depend upon the life or resurrection of the Lawgiver the Examiner himselfe I suppose would not doubt but the Lawes of Moses were of force to the Israelites in the Land of Canaan when yet Moses was dead and buried before their entrance into the Land Neither did their observation of them awaken Moses out of his grave but argued his Lawes to be in force as well after his death as whilst he was yet living If it be said That Christ at his coming in the flesh when he was buried himselfe buried also the Lawes of Moses with him in his grave Then the Examiner should not have said that the Modell raised up Moses out of his grave but that it raised up Christ out of his grave If it be said againe the Examiner saith It denyed Christ to have seen the earth which was of as ill consequence Be it so but yet still this maketh nothing to the rasing up of Moses out of his grave I Answer further Neither doth it at all deny Christ to have seen the earth For Christ came not to destroy the Law of Moses Mat. 5.17 Neither the Morall Law for in the sequele of that Chapter he doth at large expound it and establish it No nor did he come to destroy the judiciall Lawes such of them as are of Morall equity Or else the Conscience of the civill Magistrate could never doe any act of civill justice out of faith because he should have no word of God to be the ground of his action if the Lawes of judgement in the Old-Testament were abrogated and none extant in the New As for the exception which the Examiner taketh against the Preface It is as easily avoided as Objected If saith he the civill Magistrate even the highest being a Member of the Church be subject to Church-Censure how can this stand with their common Tenent that he must keepe the first Table Reforme the Church be Judge and Governor in all causes as well ecclesiasticall as Civill Secondly how can a Magistrate both sit on the Bench and stand at the Bar of Christ Jesus Is it not as impossible as to reconcile east and west together Yea is not the Text in Isa 49 23. Lamentably wrested to prove both these Reply One Answer may easily remove both Exceptions And that one Text doth expresly hold forth both these Points which the Examiner conceiveth to be so irreconcilable For if Princes be nursing Fathers to the Church as that Text speaketh then they are to provide that the children of
the Church be not nursed with poison in stead of milke And in so doing they keepe the first Table Reforme the Church judge in causes Ecclesiasticall Againe If the the same Princes shall bow down to the Church with their faces towards the earth and lick the dust of her feet as the same Text expresseth then they being members of the Church shall be subject also to Church-Censure In one word Princes sit on the Bench over the Church in the offensive Government of the Church yet may themselves being members of the Church be subject to Church-Censure in the offensive Government of themselves against the Rules of the Gospel The Examiner himselfe contesseth that in severall respects He that is a governor may be also a Subject Behold here are severall respects to wit severall objects of Judicature In the Mal-Administration of the Church the Magistrate sitteth as Judge and Governor in the Mal-Administration of a Church-Member-Magistrate contrary to the expresse rules of the Gospel he is subject to the power of Christ in the Church If it be said nay rather The Church is subject to the Magistrate in civill causes and the Magistrate is subject to the Church in spirituall causes I Answer That easeth not the difficulty no more then the other For suppose the Magistrate a Church member live in Incest breake forth into murder and notorious oppression these are all civill causes belonging to the second Table If the Magistrate sit as Judge and supreme Governor in this case then must the Church tolerate him herein to the dishonour of the great Name of Christ to the leavening of the Church and to the perdition of his soule If it be granted that in such a case though civill the Church is bound to deale faithfully with the Magistrate and not to suffer sinne upon him let the like power be granted to the Magistrate to deale faithfully with the Church in the notorious transgressions of the first Table as is granted to the Church to deale with the Magistrate in the notorious transgressions of the second Table and the controversie is ended If any further matter be claimed in making the Supreme Magistrate the Supreme Judge and Governor in all causes aswell Ecclesiasticall as civill I doe not understand that the Ministers or Churches of Christ are called to acknowledge such a meaning Sure I am the Interpretation of that high stile which godly learned Reynolds made of it in the 10. Chap. of his Conference with Hart It was accepted of the State in the dayes of Queene Elizabeth And the same Interpretation if no more be intended by that stile doth well stand with our defence But wherefore doe I put my Sicle into the Harvest of my Brethren my Brethren who penned that Modell are richly furnished by Christ with ability to defend it I therefore leave it to them whom it cheifly concerneth to maintaine the Truth which themselves have witnessed in that Modell And the Lord Jesus Christ himself the God of Truth who came into the world that he might beare witnesse to the Truth be pleased to beare witnesse from Heaven to his owne Truth and bl … that peace a fraudulent and false peace which the Examiner proclaimeth to all the wayes of falshood in Religion to Heresie in Doctrine to Idolatry in worship to blasphemy of the great Name of God to Pollution and prophanation of all his holy Ordiannces Amen Even So Come Lord Jesus A REPLY TO Mr. VVILLIAMS his EXAMINATION And Answer of the Letters sent to him by JOHN COTTON SUch a Letter to such a purpose I doe remember I wrote unto Mr. Williams about halfe a score yeares agoe But whether this printed Letter be a true Copie thereof or no I doe not know for the Letter being sent so long since and no Copie of it that I can finde reserved by me I can own it no further then I finde the matter and style expressing the judgement which I then had of his cause of Separation and the affection I bare unto his person And for ought I see the Letter doth not unfitly expresse both But how it came to be put in print I cannot imagine Sure I am it was without my privitie and when I heard of it it was to me unwelcome Newes as knowing the truth and weight of Plinies speech Aliud est scribere uni aliud omnibus There be who thinke it was published by Mr. Williams himselfe or by some of his friends who had the Copie from him Which latter might be the more probable because himselfe denieth the publishing of it and it sticketh in my mind that I received many yeares agoe a refutation of it in a brotherly and ingenuous way from a stranger to me but one as I heare well affected to him Mr. Sabine Staresmore To whom I had long agoe returned an Answer but that he did not direct me where my Letter might find him But I doe not suspect Mr. Staresmore nor Mr. Williams himselfe to have published it but rather some other unadvised Christian who having gotten a copie of the Letter tooke more libertie then God alloweth to draw forth a private Admonition to publick notice in a disorderly way But howsoever it was upon the publishing of this Letter Mr. Williams hath taken occasion as is observed by some who are acquainted with the Spirit of the man first to rise up against me the meanest of many in the examining and resuting of that Letter And then as if one Mordecai were too small a morsell to stand forth against all the Churches and Elders in New-England in his Bloudy Tenent And then as if New-England were but an handfull from thence to rise up against the choisest Ornaments of two populous Nations England and Scotland the reverend Assembly of Divines together with the reverend Brethren of the Apology and above them all to addresse himselfe according to his high thoughts to propound Quaeries of high concernment as he calleth them to the High and Honourable Court of Parliament So a Bird of prey affecting to soare aloft getteth first upon the top of a molehill and from thence taketh his rise from Pale to Tree till he have surmounted the highest Mountaines In this apprehension of him they are the more confirmed as having discerned the like frame of Spirit in his former walking amongst us Time was when of all Christian Churches the Churches of New-England were accounted and professed by him to be the most pure and of all the Churches in New-England Salem where himselfe was Teacher to be the most pure But when the Churches of New-England tooke just offence at sundry of his proceedings he first renounced communion with them all and because the Church of Salem refused to joyne with him in such a groundlesse Censure he then renounced communion with Salem also And then fell off from his Ministery and then from all Church-fellowship and then from his Baptisme and was himselfe baptized againe and then from the Lords Supper and
against him was an act of Persecution 3. Nor did I ever see cause to doubt but that in some cases such as this of his was Banishment is a lawfull and just punishment if it be in proper speech a punishment at all in such a Countrey as this is where the Jurisdiction whence a man is banished is but small and the Countrey round about it large and fruitfull where a man may make his choice of variety of more pleasant and profitable seats then he leaveth behinde him In which respect Banishment in this Countrey is not counted so much a confinement as an enlargement where a man doth not so much loose civill comforts as change them And as for spirituall liberties liberty of Church Ordinances they were a burden and bondage to his spirit here And therefore he cast them off before they left him neither doth he to this day look at it as a way of God for any Christian man to look after the Ordinances of God in a Church-estate at all As conceiving that the Apostasie of Antichrist hath so farre corrupted all that there can be no recovery out of that Apostasie till Christ shall send forth new Apostles to plant Churches anew But as for the true cause why I medled not in his civill Censure it was chiefly because Civill Censures belong unto another Kingdome then that which we are called to administer Civill Censures are not the weapons of our warfare and partly also because I was carried as still I am with a compassion of his Person and likewise of his wife a woman as then of a meek and modest spirit who a long time suffered in spirit as I was informed for his offensive course which occasioned him for a season to withdraw communion in spirituall duties even from her also till at length he drew her to partake with him in the errour of his way But Mr. Williams affirmeth That in Letters past between him and me he proved and exprest that if he had perished in that sorrowfull winters flight onely the bloud of Christ could have washed me from the guilt of his Answ That he did expresse such a thing in some Letters to me as I doe not remember it so neither will I deny it but that he proved it I may as safely deny it as he boldly affirme it Could he then have given any such proofes doubtlesse he would not have concealed them now when he undertaketh to cleare to the world the pretended innocency of himselfe and the supposed iniquitie of his supposed Persecutors How precious the bloud of Christ is to me and how needfull I blesse the Lord my soule knoweth but that I needed it to wash away the guilt of any injurious proceedings against the bloud of Mr. Williams I speake it in holy confidence I never discerned it to this day The proofes which he alledgeth in the sequell for my hand in his Banishment I shall God willing cleare them anon in due place Meane while what answers I made to him concerning the same in other Letters he wisely concealeth but contenteth himselfe to tell us that my finall Answer was That had he perished in his flight his bloud had been upon his own head It was his sinne to procure it and his sorrow to suffer it If this was my finall Answer it seemeth I gave him other former Answers what they were I have now forgotten but I suppose had they been insufficient or impertinent I should have heard of them But what is amisse in this finall Answer The margent noteth it as an unmercifull speech of a mercifull man But when it shall please the Father of mercies of soften the heart of Mr. Williams and to give him an heart and eare to hearken unto the wholesome Counsell of his true friends he will at length see the speech was truly mercifull as well as the man that spake it When a Fountaine is opened to Hierusalem for sinne and for uncleannesse the Prophets who have deceived the people shall at length see and acknowledge their errour and being demanded the cause of the wounds in their hands They shall answer each of them for himselfe thus was I wounded in the house of my Friends Zach. 13.1 with verses 4 5 6. An heart softened with the Bloud of Christ will judge the wounds of his friends faithfull Prov. 27.6 I meane such reproofes for sinne which though they may seeme to wound yet wound to heale David thought such smiting to be a kindnesse yea an excellent Oyle which doth not breake the head but heale the heart Psal 141.5 There is one thing more in his Epistle to the Reader which calleth for Answer It cannot now saith he be justly offensive that finding this Letter publick by whose procurement I know not I now present to publick view my formerly intended Answer Answ It had not been offensive to me that he did present his Answer to publick view if he found my Letter publick without his own or his friends procurement especially if his Answer had been returned in words of truth and faithfulnesse Which how farre they fall short of I hope by the help of Christ will appeare in the sequell Meane while I feare it is justly offensive to the Spirit of Grace and Love That whereas he judged me to allow my selfe and others to rest securely in the Doctrine and Practise of bloudy Persecution that all this while even for the space of nine or ten yeares he suffered me to sleep so long so quietly under the guilt of such a crying sinne Nay it may seeme by his own words if he had not found my Letter publick it may be doubted whether ever I should have heard any further word from him hereabouts at all If I had been esteemed as a Brother sinne should not have been suffered to lie so long upon a Brother Levit. 19.17 If an enemy yet the very Oxe or Asse of an enemy is not to be suffered to lye so long groveling under his burden Deut. 22.4 But when he addeth in the next sentence That he rejoyceth in the goodnesse and wisedome of him who is the Father of lights and mercies in ordering the season of his own present opportunitie of Answer I confesse we on the contrary have cause to admire and adore the wisdome and dreadfull Justice of God herein That seeing Mr. Williams hath been now as a branch cut off from the Church of Salem these many yeares he should bring forth no spirituall good fruits in due season and that which he bringeth forth now at the last is bitter and wild fruit and that in such a season when the Spirit of Error is let loose to deceive so many thousand soules of our English Nation So that now their hearts are become as Tinder ready to catch and kindle at every sparke of false light Even so O Father because thy good pleasure is such to let loose this Spirit of Error in the mouth of this Backslider in the very houre and power of darknesse
cruell and crying sinne but if it be not proved nor true the false accusation is a grievous Persecution even a cruell mocking But I shall referre the tryall of his accusation to the place himselfe appointed where he giveth Instance of the cause of his sufferings Meane while let him suspend his Marginall note That it is a monstrous Paradox that Gods children should Persecute Gods children and they that hope to live eternally with Christ Jesus in Heaven should not suffer each other to live in this common ayre together For though Gods children may not persecute Gods children nor wicked men neither for well-doing yet if the children of God be found to walke in the way of the wicked their sinne is the greater because they sinne against greater light and grace and their Brethren in Place may justly afflict them for it to deprive them in some cases not onely of the common ayre of the Countrey by banishment but even of the common ayre of the world by death yet hope to live eternally with them in the Heavens with Christ Jesus Yea what if a child of God were infected with a plague-sore or some other contagious disease may not their Brethren exclude them the common ayre both of their religious and Civill Assemblies and yet hope to live eternally with them in the Heavens Truely there be some unsound and corrupt opinions and practises and that of him too which are more infectious and contagious then any plague-sore That other Marginall note of his What Christ Persecute Christ in New-England calleth for another Answer Christ doth not persecute Christ in New-England For Christ doth not persecute any at all to speake in the proper sence of Persecution much lesse doth Christ persecute Christ For though Christ may and doth afflict his own members yet he doth not afflict much lesse persecute Christ in them but that which is left of old Adam in them or that which is found of the seed of the Serpent in them For even Satan may fill the heart of Church-members Acts 5.3 Yea breathe and act in an Elect Apostle Mat. 16.22 23. And then the Lord Jesus may afflict in his members that which he seeth in them nor of his own But he proceeds and asks further Since Mr. Cotton expecteth farre greater light then yet shineth whether upon the same grounds and practise if Christ Jesus in any of his servants shall be pleased to hold forth a farther light shall he himselfe find the mercy and humanitie of a Civill and temporall life and being with them Answ The greatest light that I expect is not above the Word much lesse against it nor is it destructive to the Church and Ordinances of Christ established according to the Word but instructive of them in the way of the word If therefore Christ Jesus shall come in any of his servants holding forth a further light to us we trust that he that offereth us light will give us as hitherto he hath done eyes to see it and hearts to follow it Light is discernable through the Grace of the Father of Lights by the children of light The Spirit of the Prophets is discerned and judged by the Prophets Wisdome is just fied of her Children When Judgement returneth to Righteousnesse all the upright in heart shall follow it The Sheep of Christ that see his face will see his Light and heare his voyce his Spirit of Truth will lead them into all truth And yet because we all know in part and Prophecy in part we are taught of God in meeknesse of wisdome to instruct one another till light of Instruction be obstinately rejected and to suffer one another in differences of weaknesse till weaknesse prove wilfulnesse and will not suffer Truth to live in Peace But what is all this to Mr. Williams Hath he therefore not found the mercy and humanity of Civill and temporall life and being amongst us because Christ Jesus held forth by him a further light unto us So it should seeme or else his Quaere is nothing to the purpose surely if it be a further light which is held forth by him it is such a transcendent light as putteth out all other lights in the world besides as they say Majus lumen extinguit minus The Churches of Christ have been wont to be counted lights the Ministery lights the Sacraments and Censures lights But this new light held forth by Mr. Williams hath put out all these lights yea and all possibilitie of their shining forth againe till the Restitution of new Apostles And yet if he had held forth any light from the word of light to manifest this great new light to us truly I hope the Lord would give us hearts not to shut our eyes against the light but to follow the Lambe whithersoever he goeth and to follow the light of his word whithersoever it leadeth us Christian Magistrates they also have been wonted to be counted the light of Israel and Oaths likewise have been thought to give light to discerne the end of all Controversies But by this new light we may not accept from the Patents of Princes any light or direction where to sit downe with their warrant and leave in forreine Plantations Neither may we make use of the light of Oaths between Magistrates and people to discerne of the fidelity and constancy of the one to the other in times of danger Where then shall his Marginall Note appeare Mr. Cotton saith he expecting more light must according to his way of Persecution Persecute Christ Jesus if he bring it Doth Mr. Williams hold me so farre forsaken of common sence as to frustrate and destroy mine own expectations If I expect more light must I according to mine own way needs Persecute him that brings it yea persecute Christ himselfe if he bring it But thus when a mans head runneth round he thinketh all the House runneth round about him But what is my way of Persecution according to which I expecting more light must needs persecute him that brings it It is but a few dayes agoe since there came to my hand a book published as is said by Mr. Williams and entituled The Bloudy Tenent In which Mr. Williams without my privity published a private Letter of mine and therewith a Confutation of it touching Persecution for cause of Conscience In my stating of that Question which he relateth in the 7th Page of that Book he declareth my Judgement to be so farre from persecuting any for cause of Conscience that he layeth it downe for my first Conclusion That it is not lawfull to persecute any for Conscience sake rightly informed that is to say bringing more and true light 2. For an erroneous and blind Conscience even in fundamentall and weighty Points it is not lawfull to persecute any till after Admonition once or twice according to the Apostles direction Tit. 3.10 11. That so such a man being convinced of the dangerous error of his way if he still persist being condemned of
Common Prayer Booke which though they then seemed sandy to me yet since I have acknowledged to be rocky and have seene cause so to publish to the world in my Discourse to Mr. Ball against set formes of Prayer For a reply let me begin where he leaveth How ready he is to build upon sandy grounds may appeare by this very Passage where he maintaineth his rockinesse For here he avoucheth I have seene cause to publish to the world the rockinesse of his grounds in a Discourse to Mr. Ball against set Formes of Prayer What rocky ground doe you thinke this Assertion of his standeth upon I know no other but this He findeth such a Discourse published to the world and he thence concludeth for other Grounds he hath none that I published that Discourse and that I saw cause to publish it both which hang upon that ground like ropes of sand The truth is I did not publish that Discourse to the world much lesse did I see cause to publish it upon the Grounds he speaketh of A briefe Discourse in defence of set formes of Prayer was penned by Mr. Ball much briefer then that which since is put forth in Print That briefe Discourse a religious Knight sent over whether to my selfe or to a Gentleman of note then dwelling in my house I remember not but with desire to heare our judgement of it At his request I drew up a short Answer and sent one Copie of it to the Knight and another to Mr. Ball divers yeares agoe How it came in processe of time to be published to the world or by whom I doe not know And yet Mr. Williams doubteth not to affirme it that I published that Discourse to the world and saw cause to doe it Rocky spirits can expresse all their conceits in rocky firmnesse though upon sandy conjectures Besides when he saith That himselfe discovered to me and to other servants of God his grounds against our using of the Common Prayer which then seemed sandy to us but now in New-England I have acknowledged to be rocky in my Discourse to Mr. Ball. I could have wished he had expressed what grounds those were which he discovered to us For my selfe I can call to minde no such matter that ever I heard or received from him either by word or writing any solide grounds against that Practise But this I am sure of that the grounds of altering my judgement touching that practise did chiefly stand upon the exposition of the second Commandement which if I should say I received from him I should greatly feare my forehead were more rocky then his grounds were I thinke it no disgrace to change either my judgement or practise upon better grounds then I formerly discerned Nor would I thinke it a disgrace to learne any grounds of truth and to professe that I had learned them from himselfe if so I had done But sure I am it hath not been wont to be the manner of the servants of God to upbraid their Brethren with their Retractations of their former Aberrations I have read of the Churches of Judea that when they heard Paul now preached the Faith which once he destroyed they glorified God for him Gal. 1.23 24. but I never read that any of the Churches of Christ or any sincere member of the Churches did ever upbraid Paul for his former Persecution or for his present change The other part of the Chapter he spendeth in relating the grounds of the sentence of his Banishment and in the avouchment of his confidence of the firmenesse of them The grounds of the sentence of his Banishment some whereof He saith I am pleased to discusse in the Letter and others not to mention He saith were rightly summed up by one of the Magistrates after his publick Tryall and Answers Mr. Williams said that publick Person holdeth forth these foure particulars 1. That we have not our Land by Patent from the King but that the Natives are the true owners of it and that we ought to repent of such a receiving it by Patent 2. That it is not lawfull to call a wicked Person to sweare to pray as being actions of Gods worship 3. That it is not lawfull to heare any of the Ministers of the Parish-Assemblies in England 4. That the Civill Magistrates Power extends onely to the bodies and goods and outward state of men c. These particulars he hopeth that as he maintained the rockie strength of them to his own and other Consciences satisfaction So through the Lords assistance he shall be ready not onely to be bound and banished but to dye also in New-England as for most holy Truths of God in Christ Jesus It was not my intent in that Letter which he examineth to discusse the Grounds of his Civill Banishment at all neither did I discusse one or other of them And it is a preposterous shifting of the State of the Question to put it upon me to give account of the causes of his Banishment who neither did banish him nor provoked the Court to banish him out of the Countrey The Magistrates and Deputies of the Common-wealth who were then the Members of that Court are all of them of age and able themselves to give account of their own actions To them or some of them he should in reason have addressed himselfe for satisfaction in this case if any were due and not to me who am as seldome present at any Civill Court if not more seldome then any man of our calling in Towne or Countrey where the Courts are kept It were more then Aegyptian bondage to me and more then Pharaonicall tyranny in him to exact of me an account of all the capitall or notable sentences of Judgement which passe in all the Civill Courts of Justice in the Countrey unlesse I had a calling to sit amongst them But why did I then endeavour in my Letter to shew him the sandinesse of those grounds upon which he had banished himselfe c. If I did not meane to declare and discusse the causes of his Banishment He doth very well and wisely to expresse the Grounds upon which I said he banished himselfe with an c. For he knows that if he had related my whole sentence in my own words he had cut off himselfe from all opportunitie of pleading with me the causes of his Civill Banishment My words are plaine I endeavour to shew you the sandinesse of those grounds upon which you have banished your selfe from the fellowship of all the Churches in these Countreyes It is one thing to banish ones selfe or to be banished out of the fellowship of all the Churches in the Countrey another thing to banish ones selfe or to be banished out of the Countrey There be at this day that banish and separate themselves from all the Churches in the Countrey and yet are not banished out of the Countrey and there be that are banished out of the Countrey and yet are not banished out of the
is not locall remoovall from former pollution nor contrary practise that fitteth us for fellowship with Christ and his Church but that it is necessary also that we doe repent of such former Pollutions wherewith we have been defiled and enthralled 2. We grant further that it is necessary to Church-fellowship that we shou'd see and discerne all such pollutions as doe so farre enthrall us to Antichrist as to separate us from Christ But this we professe unto you that wherein we have reformed our practise therein we have endeavoured unfainedly to humble our soules for our former contrary walking If any through hypocrisie are wanting herein the hidden hypocrisie of some will not prejudice the sinceritie and faithfulnesse of others nor the Church-estate of all This though the Examiner doe rehearse it here in this Chapter yet here he answereth nothing to it though it be the very hinge of the Controversie If we meet with any Answer to it in the sequele we shall God willing consider of it in its place Onely let me adde this third thing to cleare the state of the controversie more fully That to this day we doe not see nor discerne that it is any Antichristian pollution at all for a member of any of our Churches going over into England to heare the word Preached by a well-gifted Minister in the Parish Assemblies TO CHAP. XI IN this Chapter the Examiner propoundeth a second third fourth and fifth Reason to prove that which I deny not to wit That a necessitie lyeth upon godly men before they can be fit matter for Church-fellowship truely to see and humbly to bewaile their spirituall bondage under Antichristian pollution and withall to obtaine some power and strength from Jesus Christ to bring them out of it This I say I deny not nor ever did But this necessitie I conceive to be Necessitas praecepti as they call it or officii as that which is the commandement of God and the duty of godly men to doe But not Necessitas medij ad finem such a necessitie as without which a godly person cannot be a member of the Church unlesse the spirituall bondage under Antichristian pollution doe so farre enthrall him to Antichrist as to separate him from Christ as he is the Head of the visible Church Which what it is we shall have fitter occasion to speake of in the sequele To his second Argument I would therefore Answer that as an holy Altar and Temple to God could not have been built to God in the midst of Babylon but the Builders must come locally out of Babel to build it in Hierusalem So a Church of Christ cannot be built to God but by such Builders as spiritually come out of Antichristian pollutions and inventions at least out of such pollutions as keepe them still in Babel and detaine them under Antichrist and separate them from Christ To his third Argument I would grant all that he saith in it to be true But how he applieth it to inferre his conclusion he neither expresseth nor is it easie for me to gather If his meaning be that Luther and other godly persons might not be received into Church-fellowship in those dayes because they saw not the bottomlesse gulfe of all those Antichristian corruptions which the Lord hath since discovered It is a conclusion that I durst not inferre nor will he be ever able to make good It is not alwayes full Moone in respect of spirituall light with every Church of God in all ages alike To his fourth Argument taken from my own Practise In that I doe not receive all Persons eminent for Grace and godlinesse forthwith to the fellowship of the Lords Supper till upon their entrance into Covenant with a Confession of faith c. I would answer it is not because I thinke such persons are not fit matter for Church estate but because they yet want a fit Forme requisite to Church-estate His last Argument is taken from a famous Passage as he calls it of a solemne Question put to me and to the other New-English Elders unto which I with the rest did answer Negatively That if godly persons coming over hither did refuse to submit to our way of worship and Government that then they could not onely not enjoy Church-fellowship together but not be permitted to breath and live in the same common ayre and Common-wealth together To which I answer 1. That it is suitable to his wonted boldnesse to affirme that of me which is more then he knoweth and indeed more then is truth For though he say that Mr. Cotton and the New English Elders returned that Answer yet the answer to that Question and to all the other thirty-two Questions were drawne up by Mr. Mader and neither drawne up nor sent by me nor for ought I know by the other Elders here though published by one of our Elders there Howsoever the substance of that Answer not which Mr. Williams rehearseth but which Mr. Mader returned doth generally suite with all our mindes as I conceive 2. In particular The Answer which our reverend and beloved brother Mr. Mader did returne unto that Question I have read it and did readily approve it as I doe the substance of all his Answers to be judicious and solide But this I must needs professe that his Answer to this Question is notoriously slandered and abused by the Examiner For 1. There is no word at all in that Answer that denieth permission to such godly persons to live and breath in the same ayre of the Common-wealth Let the Answer be perused It is too long for me to transcribe the Book is publiquely extant and obvious and see if there be a syllable sounding that way 2. In that Answer he distinguisheth out of Mr. Cartwright and Mr. Parker touching matters of Church Discipline and maketh some to be the substantiall and immutable others of a more accidentall and circumstantiall nature In the former he doubteth not but that we and all the godly Ministers in England should accord if they were here as beleeving that either we should satisfie them in our way or they us in theirs so as there would never be Question whether we should embrace one another as Sister-Churches In the latter to wit in matters circumstantiall we are all taught of God Placide ferre aliud sentientes 3. When the Examiner maketh it his own case not to be permitted to live and breath in the same ayre and Common-wealth though Mr. Cotton and others most incensed gave him a testimony of godlinesse c. Let him be pleased to look back to what hath been formerly laid open and he will finde this Instance of himselfe wholly impertinent For the casting of him out of the Common-wealth sprung not from his difference in matters of Church Discipline It was well knowne that whilest he lived at Salem he neither admitted nor permitted any Church-members but such as rejected all Communion with the Parish Assemblies so much as in hearing of the Word
separation of holy from unholy penitent from impenitent godly from ungodly And that to frame any other building upon such grounds and foundations is no other then to raise the forme of a square house upon the keele of a Ship which will never prove a soule saving true Arke or Church of Christ Jesus according to the patterne Reply I cannot acknowledge what he saith that I have not duely considered that all the grounds and principles leading to oppose Bishops and Ceremonies c. doe necessarily conclude a separation of holy from unholy c. For I have considered and well weighed after my slender measure that they doe indeed conclude a three-fold separation of holy from unholy 1. Doctrinall that the Minister of Christ whilest he liveth amongst such dissolute and scandalous persons he is to separate them in the application of his doctrine between the holy and unholy between the precious and the vile so as to make sad the hearts of the wicked whom God would have to be made sad and to strengthen the heart and hands of the righteous whom God would have to be comforted Secondly A practicall separation in a mans own person that what a man findeth upon those grounds and principles to be unwarrantable and sinfull he doe forbeare the same in his own practise and disswade others from the same by his doctrine and example Thirdly An Ecclesiasticall separation that when a man cannot continue in fellowship with such a Church but that he shall be compelled to the practise of some sinne or of necessitie to communicate with the sinnes of others then after all good means used in vaine to redresse those evils meekly to separate and withdraw himselfe from fellowship with them in Church-Communion as one that cannot enjoy the good which is found amongst them without partaking in sundry evils that cleave to them Thus farre I have considered the grounds and Principles of Reformation of which the Examiner speaketh and doe finde that they doe necessarily conclude a separation of holy from unholy thus farre But I confesse I have not considered nor can I finde out by any further due consideration that the principles and grounds of Reformation doe necessarily conclude a separation from the English Churches as false Churches from their Ministery as a false Ministery from their worship as a false worship from all their professors as from no visible Saints Nor can I finde that they doe either necessarily or probably conclude a separation from hearing the word preached by godly Ministers in the Parish-Churches in England Nor can I finde that the building of our Churches in these ends of the world is the raising up of a square house upon the keele of a Ship unlesse it be the Arke of Noah for as the soules in the Arke were saved from water so we finde by experience and good evidence from the word that the Lord blesseth our Church-Communion and administrations with soule-saving efficacy through his grace in Christ Thirdly The third particular which the Examiner saith I have not duely considered is The multitudes of holy and faithfull men and women who have witnessed this truth from Queene Maries dayes by writing disputing and suffering farre above what the Non-conformists have done c. Reply This particular hath been considered above in Answer to Chapter 23. Fourthly The fourth particular which he desireth might be better considered Is our own practise and profession Our practise in constituting our Churches of none but godly persons and uniting them into a body by voluntary mutuall Covenant and adding none to them but persons carefully examined and approved and entering by way of confession both of their sinnes and of their faith Our practise also in suppressing other English who have attempted to set up a Congregation in a Parishionall way Our profession in the late Answer we gave to many worthy persons whom yet we account godly Ministers and people that we could not permit them to live in the same Common-wealth together with us if they should set up any other Church and Worship then what our selves practise Reply 1. Our practise in the constituting and ordering our own Churches here holdeth forth what matter and forme and order of the Church we doe beleeve to be most agreeable to the patterne set before us in the Gospel of Christ And our not receiving all commers unto the Communion of the Lords Table and other parts of Church-fellowship saving onely unto the publick hearing of the Word and presence at other duties it argueth indeed that such persons either thinke themselves unfit materialls for Church-fellowship and so they never offer themselves to us or else that we our selves conceive them to be as stones standing in need of a little more hewing and squaring before they be layed as living stones in the walls of the Lords house All which amounteth onely to this That we doe consider and bewaile the defects of the Churches of England in receiving ignorant and scandalous persons to all the liberties of the Lords Table and of his house as other wayes But it doth not at all argue neither is it our minde it should argue their Churches and worship and Ministery and members should all of them be separated from as false or none at all Our practise in suppressing such as have attempted to set up a Parishionall way I never heard of such a thing here to this day And if any such thing were done before my coming into the Countrey I do not thinke it was done by forcible compulsion but by rationall conviction But as for our profession that wee should answer many worthy Ministers and people in England that wee could not permit them to live in the same Common-wealth with us if they varied from us I have cleared it above in Answer to Chapt. 11. to be a notorious falshood and but that I know the Devill is able to create slander of nothing as God is able to create truths of nothing I should thinke it incredible that any man who hath been in New-England should be able to say as the Examiner here doth that we persecute the Parishes in New-England and yet frequent the Parishes in Old England Fiftly The fift particular which he thinks I have not duely considered is That in the Parishes which Mr Cotton holdeth but inventions of men how ever they would have liberty to frequent the worship of the Word yet they separate from the Sacraments And yet according to our own Principles there is as true Communion in the ministration of the Word as in the Seales What mystery saith he should be in this but that here to wit in Old England the Crosse of Christ may be avoyded if persons come to Church Reply 1. It is an untruth that Mr. Cotton holdeth the Parishes to be but inventions of men for though I hold that the receiving of all the Inhabitants in the Parish into the full fellowship of the Church and the admitting of them all unto the liberty of all