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A40227 The papists strength, principles, and doctrines (which they are sworn to preach, from the Councel of Trent, by the Popes authority, and after confirmed by the last General Assembly at Rouen, 1571, all which they have sworn to perform) answered and confuted furthermore their principles and doctrines answered and confuted, as they were laid down in two or three severall papers, by R.W. papist, lately sent from Holland : also a challenge to the pope and all his adherents to choose out of all his dominions some cardinals, fryers, or Jesuits to try their bread and wine, after consecration (by watching on their side and on our side) to prove that if afterward they have consecrated it, whether the bread and wine doth not loose its taste and savour, and so not the body and blood of Christ : also a paper to all them that fast and afflict themselves who are in the will-worship and voluntary humility : also some quæries to all the papists upon earth to be answered in writing and sent to them, which all sects upon the earth call Quakers / by George Fox. Fox, George, 1624-1691.; Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669. 1658 (1658) Wing F1877; ESTC R3577 83,037 105

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be poured upon him and his seat So the Author of all these sects and names hath been from you that first ravened from the spirit of God all Sects upon the earth would kill one another about their worship which shews the spirit of the Devil and not the spirit of the Apostles So when the Beast had overcome the Saints and killed them and got power over all Kindreds Tongues and Nations And the woman fled into the wildernesse and the man-childe caught up to God And the Dragon made war with the ●emnant of her seed that kept the commands of God and here by this you may see where the Church hath been And the great Whore which went forth from the Apostles and ravened from the spirit of God yet hath had the sheeps cloathing which all Nations hath drank her cup She hath corrupted the earth and made the Inhabitants of the earth drunk and the Kings of the earth hath committed fornication with her and all nations have drunk her cup of fornication She sits upon the waters and the waters are peoples not a people and the waters are nations where the Whore sits and multitudes and tongues Now mark if Nations be waters and Peoples be waters and Multitude waters and Tongues waters And the earth is corrupted and the Inhabitants of the earth drunke and all nations have drunk the cup of fornication and the Kings of the earth hath committed fornication with her Now where is the Church and the Rock all this time when nations peoples multitudes and tongues are waters and the Inhabitants of the earth drunk and the earth corrupted and all nations have drunk the whores cup And the whore cannot be said to be the heathen for the Whore goes from something and there is the ancient visible Church And the Kings of the earth have committed fornication with her and all nations have drank the cup of fornication and fornication is before you be married And these are them that have drank the blood of the Prophets Saints and Martyrs that have kept the testimony of Jesus But now again the Lamb is brought forth to rule the Nations with a rod of Iron though the Beast and false Prophet and Kings of the earth and the old Dragon make war against the Lamb and the Saints yet the Lamb and the Saints shall get the victory and the everlasting Gospel shall be preached to all nations kindreds tongues and people and life and immortality shall come to light through the Gospel which your old great Grand-father went from in the dayes of the Apostles and so to that that they went from is people now come and coming and the Lambs wife is making her selfe ready and the Saints do sing the Lord God omnipotent reigns and you are all too immoderate spirits you and all other Sects then to be like the Apostles and Christ or to be like the Church of Christ your fallibility and your Idols Inquisitions and Cruelties makes it appear Two Queries being propounded to thee In thy answer to the first Query thou saist That all Churches or meetings of all sorts of men which have not the spirit of God they may erre In thy answer to the second Query thou saist That the Church of Christ or the meetings of those Christians that follow the rule and law of Christ and are always guided by them cannot erre in any truth Reply Your Church the Church of Rome have erred from the spirit of truth and the truth in which there is no errour As instance you have set up Idols and the spirit of truth in the true Church said Keep your selves from Idols as in Johns Epistle And you have made Ministers by men and by the will of man and so gone into your own wills which the Scripture came not by nor which Christs Ministers were not made by and you and all Apostates since are of men and made by men and so you are erred ●rom the spirit of truth that leads into all truth You are erred from the Crosse of Christ the power of God and have set up outward Crosses and falls down to that instead of falling down to the power of God You have erred from the true Image of God the Saints were in and have set up outward Images of wood and stone You have erred from the Saints life and spirit and from the spirits of just men and so from the true Church and so set up the Reliques as pieces of Cloath and old bones So you know after the flesh which the Apostles did not And you are erred from the Rock and falln into the waters as in Revelations And your Idols Pictures and Images have corrupted the earth so you are erred from the true Church and the true Spirit which cryed against Idols in all ages as Moses said in his command to the people and the Apostles Your Church is commanded to make Images and Idols and the Church in Moses time and the Apostles Churches were commanded to keep from them So no true Church you are but apostates but fallible and erred in matter of faith and doctrine and praised be the Lord who hath brought you to the Light And multitudes of instances may be shewed who compares the Church with what the Churches of Christians were in the dayes of the Apostles And thou saist the difficulty is where the Church of Christ is to be found for Papists Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists Arminians and all schismatical meetings they do claim the title of Christs Church to themselves c. Answ. All these the Roman Church being the mother of the Apostates and all these before-mentioned are started from her her sturdy sons and severall names still in the forme for the light within they are all against and Christ within to reigne and teach and the Law within in the heart and in the mind whereby all comes to know the Lord and the word in the heart and in the mouth to obey and do and the spirit of truth to lead into all truth whereby the Saints have unity one with another and with the Scriptures and with God This the Pap●sts are run from into Images and Idols and this the Baptists Lutherans and all other Sects are run from into other Images within but with the spirit of truth which leads the Saints into all truth are these comprehended and out of all these sects and sorts are people coming I 'le break your names and marr your Images with the spirit of truth fence your selves never so wisely And so none of these nor you neither are of the true Church but the beast and his names but some of these you cal● S●cts are neerer the true Church then you for the world who lives in Images and Idols wonder after you who lives in Images and Idols who are apostatized from them keep your selves from Idols As for the Quakers who are risen in the Ancient of dayes in the end of the night of apostacy among whom that's appeared that cannot be shaken
against whom you and all the sects upon ea●th appears that are come up since the dayes of the Apostles whom they comprehend and will tread to dust and to powder The seed of God is risen and the top-stone is laid glory to God in t●e highest Come out all Sects and S●ctaries to the battel and you are all in the vanity contenders and pretendeders got up since the days of the Apostles the marks are appeared not to be the marks o● the S●ints who hath the Fathers name written in their foreheads but you have the mark of the Beast upon you and without the true ground and the true reason of the Apostl●s ●re you out of For inst●nce the true Church taught not to persecute and the true reasonable men that was in the faith for faith gives victory over that nature in particular that would persecute and so doth not lead to kill the Creature for the sake of the nature in it in general And fafth teaches not this D●ct●ine but denies it and brings to suffer all things through which mountains are subdued Thou further saist They that are of a wicked life may have a right faith and reproves others that cannot believe it Answ. A wicked man he hath not faith of the el●ct of God for faith gives victory over wickednesse and faith purifies and faith makes reasonable and who are of the faith are of Abraham and come out of all these adulterous generations the mystery of Fai●h is h●ld in a pure conscience Now here you are in the errour you Papists and all Apostates from the Apostles like the Jewes and the Devil that hath a belief but is out of the truth yet may get a belief in the Letter as the Jewes held a belief long in the Letter but kill'd the Son And you have had the Letter and form of godlinesse long but killed the Saints and Martyrs who are reprobated Devils Jewes Apostates Papists from the elect of God for who are of faith ●re of Abraham and who are of Abraham are of the elect of Christ which doth not pertain to Idols And here is the mystery of the Church known the body of Christ which is a top of your flesh and Idols both which is not of the fl●sh of Abraham nor of the Church All you are but the pretenders of the Spirit of Christ in the apostacy from it since the dayes of the Apostles as your fruits declare your names and Images So I confesse to you it is the ancientest form that hath been since the dayes of the Apostles but had I never known the Papists nor none of these Sectaries we had know● truth We came not through the Popes channels but are come to that which all Apostates ravened from and so you your selves must be put to silence and your mouths stopped which are the evill beasts that tears one another worse then the common beasts which the Apostles speak of which was coming up before his decease How are you learning one another about your meat and husks and worships and images and helps and Teachers and Scriptures which was not the work of them that gave it forth with your horns And how many Images have you upon you and names and marks and what are all these Images and marks but the marks and Images of the beast which is risen since the days of the Apostles Whereas thou Queriest what be all these but sect as Independents Anabaptists and other Sectaries which sayest thou was first of the Church of Rome and thou s●yest the Church of Rome cannot be said to be sectaries because it hath been constant since the dayes of the Apostles and all Sectaries springed from it and not you from them Answ. The Roman Church was the first made up of Hereticks Schismaticks and Apostates and Reprobates and Antichrists and false Prophets which Christ said should come Matth. 7. and John said was come and as you may read in Timothy and Titus Reprobate from the faith and erred from the faith and had the form of godlinesse and denyed the power and kept the form and as John said was come and they went after Idols before his decease and he writ to the little children to keep themselves from Idols And Jude saw them crept up before they were aware which went in Corah's Balaams and Cains way that were Murtherers And are not you Murtherers that murther one another as Cain about his sacrifice And Jude saw they turned the grace of God into wantonnesse which should be their teacher and salvation So all these self-separations Apostates Reprobates which went after the doctrine of Devils and forbid meats and marriages and the spirit spoke expresly should depart from the faith and ●ll these have made up the Church of Rome and there 's your visible Church held up by Cains weapons Then as for all these Sectaries springed from you you were like to beget no other children but bastards which is but a false conception brought forth by the will of man which is applyed that God got it and fathers it upon God And as for all these Sects which are sprung of you are like no other wayes but like to a Sea and burst into names which went from the spirit of God you are not like to be kept in unity who ravened from the spirit of God the life of Christ and the Apostles was in and to that which you ravened from are people come and coming which stands a-top of you all They that worship God must worship him in spirit which mortifies all sin and corruptions and they that worship God must worship him in truth in that the Devill abode not in To all the Papists upon the Earth TO come out and try their faith and strength without Cains weapons for there was two that did sacrifice and the one killed the other about the sacrifice and whether of these two was excepted can you read your selves and which was the vagabond It 's said that the Pope and the Church of Rome hath the Key and it 's left to them and ye are the keepers of the Key Now if you be keepers of the Key ye are to open to Nations about you and to render a reason of the hope that is in you if the Lord be sanctified in your hearts you will Are you according to the Scriptures Is the practice of your Church according to the Scriptures Is the spirit of the Lord powred upon you and all flesh Doth your sons and your daughters prophesie And if any thing be revealed to another that sits by you and bids another hold his peace that is speaking for you may all prophesie one by one Or are you not like others and the rest of the Sects that will put them in prison and say they have disturbed you and so shew your selves both Reprobates and Hereticks from the Church and the Spirit that the Apostles were in And can you say Christ is in you male and female Or are you not reprobates and say you
your hard speeches against him who be the filthy dreamers defiling the flesh speaking evill of the dignities of the dominions that goes over all transgression which lets see the first transgression that was befo●● transgression was this is dignity and the higher power Now are you not in Cains way and lost the patience that kills slays and murthers let all the world bear witness that be in the fear of God Are not you fallen into the deeds of the Nicholaitans and so like them which said they were Jewes and were not but synagogues of Satan and so do●h not your fruit declare you that you are synagogues of Satan murdering killing And was there not such before Johns decease which said they were Jews and were not which John told should cast into prison and try and many of the faithful Martyrs were slain Have not you held the doctrine of Balaam your Idols and do you not here commit fornication with them and is not this the stumbling-block you here lay for all people Balaam-like and is not the fruits of your Church made up of such And was not the woman Jezebel beginning to teach before Johns decease teaching to seduce the servants of God and to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to Idols and was not all this separated from the true Church these Idols Balaam this Prophetess And hath not these made up your Church which hath the stumbling block the word of the Lord doth try all this Hath not he promised and the Church doth know that he was the Lord that tryeth the reigns and searcheth the heart For is not Jezebels mark upon your fore-heads and your Idols your Church is full of them which defiles the land And do you not kill and slay Jezebel-like and betray and after fast your hands full of blood your heart full of deceit strife and murther Is not this Jezebels teachings Jezebels fast and your Idols Balaams stumbling block And was not this coming up before Johns decease creeping up among the true Church If a true Church fall into these things God removes his Candlestick from them so are you them the Candlestick is not among Therefore you set up great outward Candlesticks among all your Idols and so you have a name of Christians but are dead Thou hast a name of a Christian to live but art dead and so deceives Nations by your name but now you are proved your Church your Ministers all Jezebels mark Balaams stumbling block your Idols you have not repented of your fornications all your Idols God will cast you into your bed of sorrows And now your day of tryal is come and he that overcomes shall be a pillar in the house of God And so you have lost the key and are shut up in darknesse for was not Jezebel a murtherer a slayer and yet did she not fast Did not the Apostles fast and yet were no murtherers nor slayers And at the opening of the 5th Seal was not the cry of the souls heard How long Lord how long wilt not thou be avenged on them that are put to death for the testimony of Jesus and dost not thou avenge our cause O Lord And was not the answer again They should rest a season till the rest of their brethren were killed Now who are the killers who are the murtherers have you not been the killers and murtherers one of another and so out of the true Church and all along apostatized from the true Church Revel. 6. And so are not you them that are brought to poverty among all the earth for want of the vertue of God among all people and choaks them with your Idols and so the bottomless pit hath been opened which hath no foundation your smoak and your locusts hath swarmed abroad so are you not them that fell the Star that fell that fell from the Apostles that fell from the truth Is not your Church made up of locust and have not you worshipped Devils Idols and gold and silver brass wood iron and stone that can neither see nor hear And doth not Iohn speak of this in the Revelations which was distinct from the true Church And is not your Church here found your Idols of brasse of silver of stone and can neither see nor walk Revel. 9. And hath not the two Witnesses been killed which was called the two Olive trees and Candlesticks the Olive trees fruits is the oyl and what doth oyl do Hath not this been killed and the Candlestick which stands before the God of the earth and the great City Sodome and Gomorrha where Christ was crucified and them that crucified him was the professors of Scriptures and you the professors of Scriptures where is the Olive tree now where is the Candlestick How is spiritual Sodom full of your Idols and Images now there is none turnes from the Olive tree and the Candlestick but who are become spiritual Sodome and Aegypt in themselves and consider was not the Dragon cast from Heaven to the Earth and did not he persecute the Wom●n and is not all persecutors of him did not the Woman flee into the Wilderness where hath she been all this time of Idols where hath been the Church was not the man-child caught up to God did not the Dragon make war with the seed which keep the Commands of God did not the Beast rise out of the Sea which had his power and authority from the Dragon who have been like Bears and Lions and Leopards and all the world wondered after the Beast and they wondered after the Dragon which had power from the Beast Now mark where hath the Church been now who is like to the Beast which rose out of the Sea which all the World worshipped which ravened from the Spirit of God which went out from the Apostles in Corahs Cains Balaams way erred from the Spirit of God they like a sea out of truth so here came in the Dragons power which gave the Beast his authority which all the World worshipped which dragon had made war was that which persecuted the Woman And the Beast made war with the Saints and had his power from the Dragon which all that dwelt upon the Earth should worship and over-come the Saints then power was given to the Beast over all tongues kindreds and Nations over all kindreds your tongues your Teachers which saith tongues is the originall Orthodox men which have their learning from tongues hath the Beast power over and all that dwelt upon the Earth should worship him and he should deceive them that dwelt upon the Earth by reason of his miracles he should make Images to the Beast and they should worship the Beast and they should neither buy nor sell but who had the mark of the Beast and his Image now it is the Beast that sets up the Image now here is the Image the Beast here is your Church and here is the Beast that hath his power over all kindreds tongues and Nations and the
such which Peter speakes of to be in Corahs Cains Balaams way so your fruits declares and thus you are contrary to Christ and the Apostles and true Church separated from them and such as the Apostle declares against hath made up your Church Have not you been the first birth of the Devil since the dayes of the Apostles Murderers and killers about formes and traditions and Images and outward Churches and Ministers made by mens wills is not Cains fruits the vagabond from God appeared among you murderers destroyers Did the Apostles kill slay and burn had they their Inquisitions like you and do not you all wear Cains mark and Balaams mark on your foreheads and the Devils colours the murderer that is out of Truth has not his flagge been hung out among you All that denies your Religion and worshipping your Images Crosses and all your Ministers made by the will of men and Temples made with mens hands its death by fire Inquisition or Wracks and the devil is he that destroyes the creatures but the power of God destroyes him lets up the soul and brings the creature into liberty Christ saith My body I will give for the life of the World And Christ saith He is from above and he is not earthly The first man is of the earth earthly So after you have consecrated your bread and wine if you will come to an open tryall and proof that may openly bee proved and seen whether or no your bread and wine is not below after consecration and will waste and consume which Christ his flesh sees no corruption his body is the Church and is bread and wine after you have consecrated it the Church or do you call your selves the Church at Rome or do you call your selves the body of Christ do you call the very bread and wine the very body and blood of Christ after you have consecrated i● and so the very Church and then where are you the Church and have you not set bread and wine over you and you s●y Christs body was humane that 's the first Adam earthly the second is the Lord from heaven and after you have consecrated Bread and Wine if it be humane that signifies earthly that shews the creatures as they were before your consecration and so not the body of Christ and as oft as you do eat this bread and drink this cup y● do shew forth the Lords death till he come That signifies that he and his body was not present for where his body is there needs no representation for it was in the night in which he was betrayed that he gave them the cup for remembrance and do you take it in the night and follow the practise of Christ and his Disciples which is in remembrance of him which is the cup of the New Testament in his blood This do as oft as ye do it in remembrance of me This was in the night Now the Apostle bid the Corinthians that the end of the world was come to examine themselves and prove their own selves that they might know their own selves how that Jesus Christ was in them except they were reprobates and if Christ was in them what need they to have bread and wine to put them in Remembrance of him Friend 1 WHo was the first Author or setter forth of all your Pictures your Crosses your Crucifixes your Images and what was their names seeing that the Apostles and Teachers and Ministers did not set forth such things in the Church but witnessed against Idols and that they might keep themselves from Idols and that they were not to look at things that were seen as in the Epistles of John and to the Corinthians And are not images pictures crucifixes crosses things that be seen And the things that are seen are temporall but the things that are not seen are eternall and is not it which set up these things that which denyed the power of God 2 How is it that you set up Tythes seeing that the Apostle witnessed against the Priest-hood that took tythes and said the Law was changed and the commandement disannulled that gave them And though Abraham gave tythes to Melchisedeck the similitude the son of God is come the end of the similitude and likenesse and who was the first beginner of them amongst you 3 Who was the first Author that gave ye the commands for the observing of dayes holy dayes Saints dayes seeing the Apopostle and the Saints which were in the true Church brought the Saints off days yea the days which God had commanded to Christ the substance and said there was not any name under heaven by which a man should be saved but his name and what they were to do they were to do in the name of Christ And when they cryed Paul Apollo or Cephas he rebuked them are not all you come under rebuke now that are crying up names days meats drinks which the Kingdom of Heaven stands not in and so has lost the power and the substance 4 Where did Christ or the Apostles command in the Scripture or the Church practiced that such things forementioned should be done or come after them shew me by Scripture Now if you say that Solomon had a Temple and there were images and an Ark and an Altar those were but figures they were not the substance and when the substance came they ceased Now what does all your dayes crosses crucifixes tythes type forth and who commanded them shew by Scripture where ever Christ or the Apostles commanded any such thing as a Crucifix as a Crosse as Tythes as a Temple as an Altar outward or to pray by Beads shew by the Scriptures where ever the true Apostles true Church or Christians practised any such things or that any such things were amongst them or said that any such things should come after them answer me by plain Scriptures 5 May not a man give all his goods away to the poor and his body to be burned and what will that profit him if he have not love yea love to enemies And how can you love them when you bring them to your Inquisitions or burn or imprison them kill or banish them Now mark are not you of that sect that the Apostle speaks of that may give all your goods away to the poor and your bodies to be burned and yet nothing not having love And what differs your love from that love that may give your goods away and bodies to be burned and yet not have true love And do not you think that you gain by that now and do inherit some righteousness for it and is not that all out of the true righteousnesse which is out of the true love Now the love of God and Christ which was in the Apostles was to love enemies Now if you love your sect and them that be of your worship and observes your customes and burn and prison and kill others that be not of your sect and judgement and observes your customes