what his thoughts are and searcheth the heart who both can and doth spâ—ak what he pleaseth both of things declared in Scriptures and without them as he sees meet to the perticular states of men and persons and so to lay so much upon Scriptures which belongs to God and Christ and is properly their Work is unsound And Whâ—re provest thou the Scriptures search the thoughts And wherâ— say they so of themselves when they do not speak and direct to any perticular Person and shew him his thoughts and actions perticularly which the Light doth And the Spirit of Truth reproves and convinceth of the several evils whereof persons are guilty It s the Lord that sets their sins in order before them Priest It is false That any have a sincere supernatural Faith of the Scriptures that are ignorant of Christ c. They testify of him Answ. So then they must have some knowledg of Christ and from thence have a supernatural Faith of the Scriptures But how doth this agree with much more of thy work about searching the Scriptures for Life Eternal in them for begetting Faith c. Priest The foundation of the Saints and houshold of God are the Phrophets and Apostles Jesus Christ being the cheif corner-stone Eph. 2.20 Answ. Were not the Prophets and Apostles of that houshold of God If they were then they were their own foundation according thy to assertion here but thou hast wronged the Scripture for it was the foundation of the Propheâ—s and Apostles mark of the Prophets and Apostles they were built upon Christ Jesus the cheif corner stone Priest By the Prophets and Apostles that are the foundation is meant their Doctrine contained in the Scriptures not the persons Answ. Their Foundation was before their Doctrine or Scriptures Another foudation can no man lay then that which is already laid which is Christ But sure the Prophets and Apostles and Scriptures were not he Priest The Scripture makes known inward sins of thoughts and lusts Rom 7.7 Is able to makâ— the man of God perfect if they did not search into the thoughts of the heart discovering who are blind and carnal How can they make Wise unto Salvation Doth not the Scriptures make us Wise unto Salvation Therefore Are they not able to save us Christ as the principle cause of our Salvation is said alone to save us Answ. Thou meanest Christ as the principle searcher or the Spirit but the Scriptures as the instrument and then thou shouldest have said Christ makes known inward sins the Spirit searcheth all things And God Judgeth the secrets of men by Christ according to the Gospel without the knowledg of Christ there 's no supernatural faith of the Scriptures nor can any be made Wise unto Salvation but through that Faith And that Christ and the Spirit makes use of speaks and opens things contained in the Scripture many times Who denies that For then he speaks and opens those things immediately and thus the Law was made convincing to Paul not before it came thus and if on that account they be the instrumental cause then its Christ or the Spirit by hâ—s own speaking or teaching and openings that is the searcher and saviour And then it were most proper to lay the stress upon him as the searcher and Saviour and not thus often tell of the Scriptures being the searcher of the thoughts and of having in them Life Eternal lest also that ignorant persons go Idolatrously according to the tendency of much of thy matter to put them in the place of Christ or seek to make them the Saviour seeing that Christ the principle cause of our Salvation as thou confessest is said alone to save us and if he alone save its sufficient people be directed to him for that end for in him all sufficiency is who can now immediately speak matters contained in the Scriptures as well as when they were first given by inspiration And it is the inspiration of the Allmighty that giveth the true understanding without which the right use and end of the Scripture is not known Priest The Scriptures of Truth not I make four Saviours Viz. The ingrafted Word Faith Scriptures Timothy c. Answ. To us there is but one God one Christ one absolute Saviour one Faith c. Priest There is a Faith of the Scriptures that is historical this is not sufficient but this Faith may be of Christ as well and yet they not be saved but who has saving unfeigned Supernatural Faith of Scriptures cannot waâ—t it of Christ. Answ. Well Then this saving Supernatural Faith of Scripture and of Chrâ—st must come fâ—om a Supernatural Light or Christ who is thâ— Light and Author of Faith Priest How shall they believe without a Preacher sent Joh. 20. verse last They must have the Scriptures who have the knowledge of Christ for without this they cannot be kept from hell Answ. Who must send them if there be no immediate Teaching or Revelation now How provest thou thy Call from Scripture and that thou art Comissionated by Christ to Preach Thou shouldest rather have said they must have Christ who truely know the Scriptures and without him they cannot be kept from hell Priest In thâ—se Commandments written is our Life Deut. 30.15 16. Answ. The Word and Commandment was nigh them in their hearts that they might obey it and walk in the Commandments and live see Verses 11 12 13 14 15. how herein thou hast diminished and wrested Scripture and that Word which was nigh in the heart the Apostles preached It doth not say in the Commandments written is your Life Priest But that all Nations have the knowledg of Christ It s in an Enthusiastical Bible c These places He enlightens every man that cometh into the world and hath no respâ—ct of Persons are far wide from this conclusion therefore all have the knowledg of Christ all the Turks Jewes Pagans c. Oh! What monstrous horrid Doctrine c. Answ. It is not our Assertion nor Conclusion that all Nations or People have the knowledg of Christ herein hast thou abused us and our Principle for though he enlightens all they all do not walk in the Light nor believe in it But all Nations and People that come ever to know Christ and be saved must walk in his Light Who is the Way the Truth and the Life Priest Christ as he is God equal with the Father hath planted some Light of a natural conscience in every man of the world Answ. In him was life and the life was the light of men And he was that light which enlighteth every man that comes into the world who is not natural nor his Light that shines from him in the Conscience And God is Light who enlightens the World and gave his good Spirit in the dayes of old to the Rebellious and sent his Son a Light into the World That whosoever believes on him might not perish but have eternal life And here is the power and
that can neither properly be called the Word nor are they words of God as what the Serpent said to Eve Pharaoh to Moses false Priests and Prophets in the true Prophets dayes many things and accusations which the Jewes said to Christ Were these the Word of God Mayest thou not here see thy error and confusion Priest There is nothing so much commendeth the necessity of the knowledge of Scriptures and Learning as the horrid detestable absurdityes which men unlearned c. wresting Scriptures to their own perdition however they revile Study of Scriptures and Learning Answ. There is nothing more discommendeth things and the Priests Way of Learning and Studying the Scriptures as your perverting and abusing them for your own ends and turns and the Pâ—iest making a Trade of them by their Learning and must people depend upon the fruits of your Study and Learning to know the Scriptures And yet other whiles they must expect to find Eternal Life in the Scriptures to be made Wise unto Salvation by them What contradiction's here But if the Scripture given by Divine Inspiration be profitable to the man of God and by the same Inspiration be understood and make Wise to Salvation through Faiâ—h and that the Spirit of Truth lead into all Truth then wee 'l not be beholding to thee and such as thou art for your Learning and Study who deny the immediate Teaching of the Spirit and so are but still unlearnd as to the things of God And why doest thou villify us as unlearned and make a flourish as if thou art some Eminent Learned man This shews thy Shallowness Pride and Conceitedness And were not Peter and John unlearned men and so accounted by the Learned among the Jewes Yet were full of the holy Ghost and learned by it Wouldst thou and thy Companions limmit the Gift of God or a right understanding of Scriptures to your natural drossy Learning and imaginary Study O! The Lord hath raised up and brought to light that Life and Spirit which has brought many to see thorow you and your corrupt Learning and Babylonish stuff And whereas thou dost villify and jeer upon these words Viz. That the word which the Bereans received with all readiness of mind and the Scriptures which they searched are two things and sayest I purposely pass by that which follows Viz. Whether these things were so Answ. Are they not mentioned distinctly as two The Word they received c. the Scriptures they searched to see whether these things were so Now there was more in Preaching then bare words or Scripture For their gospel came not in word onely but in Spirit and in Power which when that had touched their hearts and they had received a sence of the Spirit and Life which the Apostles were Ministers of this prepared them for a further understanding of things and matters relateing to the Testimony of Truth and of the Scriptures when they searched them in that weak state wherein they were at first receit of Truth for a further or additional confirmation of their understanding of things declared upon Scripture account touching Christ but if according to thy sence the Word which they râ—ceived with all readiness of mind and the Scriptures which they searched to see whether these things were so were but one thing then Is it good Doctrine to say that when they received the Word with all readiness of mind they searched the Word to see if those things in it were true or to try the truth of them How then was it received with all readiness of mind Or was it the Scripture which they received with all readiness of mind and thâ—n when they so received them searched them to see whether those things where so Is this thy excellent Logick If so then thy Doctrine runs thus They received the Scriptrues with all readiness of mind and they searched the Scriptures to see whether the Scriptures were so or for proof that the Scriptures were true they must search the Scriptures to prove them true by themselves Will this be admitted of as excellent Logick in your Schooâ—es to prove an assertion by the same assertion and to beg the question in controversie If so then in all points asserted and disputed of it is so because it is so will serve for proof Priest The Word you say is one How can it be called those things Answ. If the Word which I say is one cannot be called those things thâ—n it proves what I said befâ—re that the Word and Scriptures are two things and that their receiving the Word with all readiness of mind was inward but the Scriptures are outward which they searched after they received the Word Priest Are the things written in the Scriptures and the Scriptures two things What excellent Logick is this Answ. If they be not two things and yet the Word which is but one and those things contained in them be two things How are the Scriptures the Word seeing the Word and those things are two Yet here again thou shâ—west very little Learning as professed by thee for the Writing and the things written of are two things as well as Scriptures and the things contained in them for there is the thing containing and the things contained according to the distinction of them and some of your selves Priest Or ye must take the Scriptures in the abstract for the writen Characters as distinguisht from the things that are writ so nothing can be either searched or found in a number of Characters Answ. I know of none that appear so ridiculous as to search them meerly as a number of Characters so abstract to prove things or matters but to search them for those things or declarations contained in them which appear to the eye of the understanding and not to the outward eye in the bare Characters and yet Scriptures signify Writings Priest Whereas ye ask whether I think none hath Faith so none shall be saved but those that hear the Scriptures by the outward ear or can read them What God may do or doth in an extraordinary is not the question for his absolute Soveranity in his dispensations of Grace is not tied c Answ. Then God and his dispensations of Grace are not limitted or tied as many other times thou and others of you seem to tye up all now to Scripture for Life Eternal for Faith c. other whiles to your Interpretations Learning and the fruits of your study but the way to God and Salvation is Christ And no man comes unâ—o the Father but by him nor none comes to the Son but by the Fathers drawings which are known in the Spirit and Light by which we have access to God Priest The Scriptures search the thoughts as an Instrument and Christ is the principal searcher Answ. That 's Christ or the Word of God which is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart that searches the heart And it s the Lord God of hosts that telleth unto man
who plead for continuance of sin and lusts in them which if they alwayes be to continue here and cannot be abstained from as thou intimatest then to what purpose was it for Peter to exhort them to abstain from them especially if he had been of thy faith that they could not or had not power to abstain from lust c. But herein thou hast sufficiently discovered whose servant thou art Pr. When they are Believers and begotten they are so freed that the evil one cannot touch them Answ. Much less lead them into Sin or keeps up the reigning power of it in them so long as they live This contradicts all thy corrupt Pleas and Arguments for Sin Pr. They do not fulfil its Lusts as to continue in Sin wilfully and deliberately without repentance yet they are not freed from Sin wholly Answ. Yes wholly when the wicked one hath not power to touch them But thy saying they do not fulfil its Lusts as to continue in Sin wilfully without repentance now may not this be taken that they do continue in Sin Lusts but not wilfully without repentance But do they Sin wilfully with repentance Hast thou cleared Gods Children herein Whereas such as walk after the spirit shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh but are in that which mortifyes the vile affections and desires and subjects the whole man to the will of God Viz. to Righteousness and Holyness Pr. In many things we offend all Answ. But not in Christ the one thing for he that abides in him sinneth not Pr. To be unblamable Is that Grace Is universal in all parts of the renewed man though not absolute c. to be unblameable and unreproveable may stand with Sins of infirmity Answ. To be unblameable is to Live as the Grace teacheth namely To deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live godly and soberly in this present world For Sin and Ungodliness is blameable and reproveable wherever it is it being contrary to the Grace and its teaching which is absolute as well as universal in the renewed man and is not consistent with Sin nor imperfect as you Priests of Scotland have rendered Grace Faith c. as they among you formerly that cursed every one that saith Faith is without Sin and would have all the people to say Amen to it wherein your blind zeal out-runs your understandings and made you discover your folly and madness to set people on cursing yea to curse such as held the Truth contrary to that Doctrine bless and curse not Pr. In the Book of Common Prayer there is a promise To forsake the Devil and all his Works the vain Pomp and Glory of the world and Sinful Lusts of the flesh and be led by Gods Spirit to keep his Commandments Many of those who promise may do this and keep it in the sence the Scripture holds that is that they shall disallow purpose and endeavour against those ills Answ. So Here thou hast justified these promises and many of those who promise as keeping it that is sayest thou they shall disallow purpose and endeavour against those ills as if that purpose were a forsaking the Devil and all his Works c. the Sinful Lusts of the flesh a keeping Gods Commandments c. when as thou hast denyed that any may attaine to such a state but they must purpose and endeavour after it when as the promise is absolute to forsake all sin Viz. all the Works of the Devil and to walk in the Commandments of God all their life What a medly hast thou made here like the time-serving Priests that vindicate the Common prayer and Episcopacy after they have denyed it and many of them covenanted against it We thought that the Priests and Kirk of Scotland had been more zealous and sincere in their way against the Episcopal Traditions then thou hast here appeared Will the rest of thy Brethren of the Kirk of Scotland own thee in this matter Or art thou their mouth that thou takest upon thee to be such a contender for the pure Protestant Religion as thou callest it But is that any part of your Religion to tell of God-fathers and God-mothers And to cause tâ—em to promise and vow in the Infants name and for the Iâ—faâ—t as its surety to forsake the Devil and all his Worâ—s c. all â—he Sinful Lusts and desires of the flesh and to keep Gâ—ds holy Will and Commandments when you do not believe it possible so to do in this Life Pr. As many who are commended for keeping his Commands their Sins and Failings are not-with-standing recorded Answ. Sins and Failings are not consistent with keeping Gods Commandments Sin being a transgression of the Law which when transgressed and failed of keeping it is not kept then nor the blameless state stood in Pr. You with gross subtilty bear out this sence That he who at his death is made holy is made holy somtimes before his death Ans. He is sometime a dying before dead if at their death be upon their death or dying as thou sayest yea some are many houres having the symptomes and pangs of death upon them before they are dead and in this sence I supposed thou intendest by saying at their death they are freed c. that it was upon their dying when the throws or pangs of death are upon them or when we commonly say a person is a dying when he breathes very weakly faintly and sometimes with short breathings a little before breath is quite gone and then there must needs be a little space in this Life before the person is quite dead Pr. You might as well infer if one should say that at his death his Soul aod Body are separate that he said they are separate sometime before his death at his death is meant immediatly upon his dying Ans. A false inference put upon my words which doth not at all follow for when the Soul and Body are separate or the Soul is gone out of the Body this is after death now upon dying is not after death for when the Body is without the Spirit it is dead so if thou wilt have it that when the Soul and Body are separate the Beleiver is then free from sin t is not in this Life and then Where 's the Popes Purgatory And who is now guilty of damnable Popery Is this your pure Protestant Religion Pr. I never found but that they Viz. our Brethren said Beleivers Souls either at their death which is immediately upon their death or after death are made perfectly holy and received into glory Answ. Upon dying and after death are two things so it appears still you are devided somewhat in this point sâ—me of you saying upon their dying Beleivers are made perfectly holy others say after death however by this we may observe that your Doctrine tends to make people serve the Devil by living in sin so long as they have any time and strâ—ngth to do any service for him that is till
Supernatural Knowledg and Faith of Christ before the Scriptuâ—es be truely known or believed I deny any immediate teaching by God Christs immediate teaching will no wayes follow Christs opening the understanding to know the Scriptures for he doth by the same Supernatural Influence shine on the understanding and Scriptures Luke 24.22 Christs opening and shining by a Supernatural Influence plainly proves immediate teaching as we called Quakers do hold and against the Priests of Scotlands denying it who thus confute themselves If there be any Pryority or Posteriority of Christ in the Soul the Scriptures hath it in the order of nature The Lord in the comunicating of the knowledg of them he is in his being first the cause must be before the effect so the giver of knowledg before the knowledg given So that he that is the first and cause of true knowledg hath the Priority and Preheminence in all things without whom the Scriptures are not known and if it be a Priority of Christ as is said then Christ hath it Without the Sanctifying knowledg of Christ one may understand the Scriptures without error and jangling None can know the Truths of the Scriptures without the Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ. So then without that Sanctifying Knowledg none can understand them without error We may find Eternal Life by searching Scriptures they thought to have Eternal Life in the Scriptures this thought could not be a delusion He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Viz. to Christ he to wit the Spirit of Truth shall lead believers into all Truth So then the Father is to be heard and learned of that the Son may be come to and the Spirit to be followed to lead into all Truth and this way was before the Scriptures Sin is remaining in part in all the faculties of Gods Children Viz. in the Will Mind and Affections Cleanse thou me from my secret sins Peter exhorted the believing Hebrewes to abstain from their lusts Then let not sin nor sinful lusts allwayes remain in believers If you find out any other faculty of the Soul which can be a seat for sin to dwell in then the Schooles will be beholding to you for your new Phylosophie When they are believers and begotten they are so freed that the evill one cannot touch them many are commended for keeping his Commandments If the evil one cannot touch them much less hath he power to lead them into sin all their time or to uphold sin in all their faculties and the Schools that would have more place for sin allow Christ no place Believers are not freed from sin wholy till death To be unblamable is that Grace which is universal in all parts of the renewed man Unblameable is inconsistant with sin for sin is blameable where ever it is A believer ever after he is begotten of God is not free of sin they do not perfectly mortify lusts in them In the Book of Common Prayer there is a promise to forsake the Devil and all his Works the vain Pompe and Glory of the world and sinful lusts of the flesh and be led by Gods Spirit to keep his Commands many of those who promise may do this and keep it What greater promise can there be of freedom from sin then to forsake the Devil and all his works to be led by Gods Spirit to keep his Commands Your new Light you pretend is nothing but old Damnable Popery The Spirit of truth will lead believers into all truth He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Viz. to Christ. Our Light is the Light of the Spirit of Truth which cometh from Christ and guides both to hear and learn of the Father and this Light was before the Scriptures were and its blasphemy to call it Damnable Popery In the present time I am sold under sin that good I would do I do not Groaning under a body of death It was not a by-gone state Paul speakes of in the present time I am Paul was giving thanks for victory through Jesus Christ yet all these are knit together Victory and being sold under sin are two differing states as warring and being more then a Conqueror are Paul spake to the Romans after the manner of men because of the infirmity of their flesh and therein condescended to their capacities below his own present state and injoyment Perfect holiness of both Soul and Body is not to be till the Resurrection Viz. after death Believers at their death which is upon their dying are made perfectly holy Perfect holiness ought not to be put off neither so long after death nor till death for what time do you allow Christ to reign in man and to serve him if all your life time sin must remain and so long the Devil be served The Godly falleth into sin seven times a day Christ saith to Peter that he should forgive his brother seventy times seven which implyeth that a brother may offend often in the day time As for my saying a day it was a mistake of the citation of the place That of the Spirit is most prevailing with Gods Children as unto which they do adhere the flesh they renounce and resist and which by little and little they overcome It had been well thou hadst confest thy mistakes as ingenuously in other things the controversie had been the less but Do the Brethren sin all their dayes When then do they overcome What gross confusion art thou in While we live we must put on the armour of God and war against sin which is not to be ended till we lay down this Tabernacle We are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Christ in Justification when we do believe If believers be cleansed from all sin when they do believe How have they it to war against till they lay down this Tabernacle Surely they believe before Our peace stands in our Justification by Faith and yet there are remains of sin in us which we are to mourn for There is a perfect cleansing from the guilt of sin What a cleansing from the guilt of sin and not from the sin it self this is quite contrary to Scriptures Christ was given for an advocate for the sins of those whom John calls little Children and his own which therefore were to be That of 1 Joh. 1.12 I write unto you that you may not sin Page 30. Christ Redeemeth from all iniquity is a Saviour and saveth them from their sins Math. 1.21 Luke 19.10 Christ being thus a Redeemer a Saviour an Advocate therefore sins are not to be and there was young Men and Fathers as well as little Children The Devils work remains unsubdued in the Child of God appeares by that Paul saith to the Romans The God of peace c. The God of peace shall tread down Satan under your feet shortly Rom. 16 20. And sure when Satan is thus trodden down under foot his work cannot remain unsubdued for both his power and possession is
The Principal Controversies BETWEEN The Litteral Presbyters of the Kirk of Scotland and the Illuminated Members of the Church of Christ CALLED QUAKERS Truly Collected Stated and Opened in a particular Reply herein specified for general Information and undeceiving the deceived By an earnest Contender for the most Holy Faith which was once delivered to the Saints G. W. 1 Tim. 6.20 Avoiding prophane and vain babling and oppositions of science falsly so called 2 Pet. 2.12 But these as natural bruit Beasts speak evil of the things they understand not c. Vers. 13. Sporting themselves with their own deceivings Vers. 14. Having Eyes full of Adultery and that cannot cease from sin Printed in the Year 1672. A Brief Introduction Reader HErein is asserted the real sufficiency of Divine Illumination and Inspiration together with the Doctrine of the Saints Perfection in Christ and his Universal Light and Grace to Mankind and thereby the real Use and End of the Holy Scriptures made known and the pretious Truths therein Owned and Vindicated from the gross Errours Perversions Absurdities Reproaches manifest Confusions and Contradictions of some Rigid Presbyters of Scotland to whom this Tract containes a brief Reply in many short Paragraphs which was thus occasioned Viz. Some of the Presbyterian Priests or Teachers in Scotland having some years ago writ a great bundle against us the People of God called Quakers in a way of slighting and deriding some things of Truth which above ten years ago I wrote in Answer to a Paper containing a pretended Answer to 26 Queries of Geo. Fox's Junior with some Queries written by one Edw. Jamison in whose Name with two more the said bundle against us was conveyed in Manuscript to divers hands as a pretended Answer to mine which providentially after a long time was brought to my hands about four years ago which then I perused and collected the principal Heads and Passages in it both of Doctrine seeming Argumentation and their Objections which I have here inserted in their own very words as I have their Book in Manuscript to evince and I wrote a Reply to each particular for the clearing the Truth and to manifest his and their abuse thereof and their gross perversion of the holy Scriptures together with their self Contradictions which are very apparent and easie to be seen by any unbyassed And not only their weakness and defection appears but their enmity against the Doctrine of Perfection both as it relates to the truly Sanctified and to their Faith and graces which these Presbyters accuse not only with Imperfection but with Sin Their darkness against the Light of Christ within Their cruel partiallity against the free extent of Saving Grace their sinful unbelief against the Sufficiency of the Holy Spirits teaching their gross ignorance and scorn against Divine Inspiration and Immediate Teaching in these dayes their carnal mindedness for their Traditional Ordinances of men against the Spiritual Dispensation of the Gospel and New Covenant wherein the Antitype of all even the enduring substance and heavenly things themselves are enjoyed by the clear sighted Children of the day beyond and above all Types Shadows and outward Representations or Memento's whatsoever These and the like things are spoken to in my following Reply A Coppy whereof was sent into Scotland for those concerned soon after it was written whereof as I am informed Edw. Jamison had a Coppy but since I had no further Answer nor Reply from him And now since some of our Friends in Scotland considering that there would be a service in making the following Reply more Publick and knowing that the said Edw. Jamison with divers more of his Brethren are of contentious and boasting spirits and yet seem not ready or willing to take notice of such things as pinch them while not made Publick as in this Case divers of our Friends in Scotland have hereupon desired the Printing and Publishing of this my Reply And in Answer to their Requests I have given them my first Copy thereof to divulge desiring that all who Read it may weigh the things therein contained and that they eye and have regard to that Light of the Son of God in their Consciences which manifests those things that are reprovable and is able to endue the Creature with a Right Judgment between those things that are of God and those things that differ and so to try all things and hold fast that which is Good London the 22th day of the 6th Mon. 1672. From a Real Friend to all who desire to know the Way of Life and Peace George Whitehead THE PRINCIPAL CONTROVERSIES BETWEEN The Litteral Professors of the Kirk of Scotland and the Illuminated Members of the Church of Christ called Quakers c. Here are the Doctrines and Principles of some of the Presbyterian Priests of Scotland Collected out of a great Bundle in Manuscript Subscribed Edw. Jamison with other two Names on the outside viz. Oswald Harland Edward Orde Together with the Heads of many of his corrupt Reasons and perverse Arguments against the Truth and Scriptures which are here detected and the People of God called Quakers vindicated from his and their Aspersions Calumnies and false Accusations therein The Priest YOV Have renounced Learning as Antichristian Answer That 's false For not Learning in it self simply considered do we renounce but the absurd and corrupt Idolatrous Use of it by men of corrupt mindes who have not Learned of Christ but in their Antichristian Spirit deny his Immediate Teachings Priest Absurd arguings against clear and abundant Scripture-Proofes which have been held forth by far more able than I am Therefore that my Answers have not Converted you is not to me either Strange or a Disappointment Answer False again I argue not against clear Scripture c. but against thy abusing and perverting of it as will yet further appear and much unprofitable labour thou mightest have spared and forborn whilst thy end was not to convert us what was it for to insult and boast over us And yet art far short of some that have dealt with us if we were conquered and confuted before hadst thou a mind to shew thy vallor over us thou hast missed of this end also Priest I have born witness to the Truth against your way Answ. Thou hast born witness to his work who is the Father of Lies against the Truth as will further appear to the shame of thee and thy confederates Priest There can hardly be brought any absurdity grosser for defence of your Cause then it self c. Answ. Then it was gross and absurd in thee to make raise and forge so many absurdityes upon our Cause as thou hast done though they be very groundless light frothy and frivilous as in this sequel will appear and become more obvious to the impartial spectators Priest The Light the Spirit Kingdom within are taken in a dangerous unsound sence by Quakers in an enthusiastick sence as communicate without Scripture Answ. It s both dangerous and
of Envy who were not sanctified for such a work Pr. Your reason that wâ—thout Christ we can do nothing is to be meant in a Supernatural way Answ. Is not that in a Supernatural way which is without Error and Jangling and good and acceptable to God Pr. If they believe them to bâ— true do they not know them Answ. No All that believe them to be true do not know them for thou hast granted an historical Faith of Scripture Pr. He that hath heard and learned of the Father cometh to him Joh. 6.44 Answ. But all that have read and heard Scripture have not heard nor learnd of the Father nor come to Christ. Pr. None can know the Truths of the Scriptures without the Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ. Answ. This is according to what I say and overthâ—ows very much of thy matter according as hath been largely proved before Pr. He will lead believers into all Truths this is the meaning That is he will keep them from a total and final defection from Truths necessary to Salvation and lead them into Truths which are thus necessary c. Answ. This acknowledges in part to the truth of what I have said also to the Spirits leading into all Truth yea into all Truths necessary to Salvation And then the Spirit of Truth is sufficient for us to depend upon for this leading and preservation Pr The Disciples all of them except Judas had received the Sanctifying Spirit Answ How hast thou excepted Judas from the Sanctifying Spirit when he had part of the Ministery which his transgression was the cause of his falling from Pr. They were all ignorant of the Resurrection and mistook the nature of Christs Kingdom as if it had been of this world Luk. 24.21 Act. 1.6 The Galatians who had received the Spirit yet were they led into Error Answ. If they that had received the Spirit might erre in these matters much more they that had no Sanctifying Knowledg which contradicts thy former of their preaching of Truths without Errors Pr. He did not tell them ye erre not having the Spirit but not knowing the Scriptures Answ. The Scriptures they could not truely know without some Sanctifying Knowledg of Christ as before confest or of the power of God to salvation so their ignorance of the Scriptures in a Supernatural sence was from their ignorance of the power of God which unvails the heart to read and understand them Pr. For what ye say we plead for sin it doth more duely fall on the Doctrine that saith believers may totally fall as you say Peter by his denial did and David likewise by c. Answ. Nay To say there are believers that may fall from Grace who are not yet come to an established and grown state in the Truth and Power of God is no pleading for sin as your Doctrine contending and disputing for sin in all term of Life especially whiles we exhort all to watch and look dilligently to Grace received and withal warn them c. that such a falling away may be prevented for it was no pleading for sin in the Apostles to warn the Churches by the example of some that fell or of such as made shipwrack of faith and a good conscience or of such as drew back to perdition denied the Lord that bought them and such whose latter end was worse then their beginning But to charge us with saying that Peter and David fell totally this is a slander and forgery against us as there are many more in thy bundle Pr. If our peace stood in our inherent Righteousness c. in our good works c. Answ. Inherent Righteousness are thy own words obtruded upon us in thy own sence as imperfect and so in that sence not Gods nor Christs for in Gods Righteousness received in Christ by faith our peace stands and of this the true believers are pertakers in them they being in that living Faith the Righteousness whereof is not devided from it Pr. Davids Peace stood not in the freedom from all sin but in that God did pardon his sin and did not impute the same Rom. 4.6 7 8. Secondly If none ever had or shall have Peace here on earth but such as are in this Life free from all sin then you alone may boast of it c. Answ. He whose Transgression is forgiven The man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity in his spirit there is no guile Psa. 32.1 2. And David bid Mark the perfect man and behold the upright for the end of that man is peace And blessed are the undefiled in the way they also do no iniquity c. And in this state stood Davids Peace contrary to what thou hast Erroniously spoke of him here Secondly And what thou hast said of our being free from all sin that we alone might boast of it this thou dost not believe of us and therefore hast ironically Scoffed and Jeered contrary to thy own thoughts and intentions And in implying none on earth free from all sin hast again erred and art herein sufficiently confuted allrâ—ady thou having herein implyed none here ever born of God none here to abide in Christ or come to perfect Holyness or to be washed from all sin by the Blood of Christ So thy Doctrine is contrary to the Apostles Pr. For none either of the Prophets Apostles or Saints that we find in Scriptures ever were thus quallified for Peace Answ. This seems to be a large and general charge against the Prophets and Apostles who generally contrary to this Doctrine testifyed unto the Peace of God which is perfect which attends the Righteousness or heavenly Image of God which is also perfect and known in the new Covenant whereby he takes away sin and establisheth his people in Righteousness and the Prophets could testify that the Lord was their Righteousness who wrought all their works in them and to the true Apostles Christ was made wisdom righteousness sanctification so thou you have shewn your selves ignorant of the Scriptures and of the Prophets and Apostles states and quallifications and what sin or sins they all had which they or any of them were not freed from before death is not yet proved by any of you who are found in the work of the old accuser of the Brethren Pr. Sin is remaining in part in all the faculties of Gods Children c. except ye had made appear that Pauls Will and Affections and Mind were perfectly against sin Some stain and inclination to sin by the contrary corruption still remained in some degrees in his Will Mind and Affections c. Answ. This is a sad accusation against all Gods Children againe and what is this but a pleading for sin and tending to strengthen the hands of evil doers What all the faculties of Gods Children having sin and corruption in them The Priests were wont to tell of a Regenerate part What part is it No faculty clean sad newes Thus to accuse Pauls Will Mind and Affections as having
thou knowest not which as before was answered thee makes for their imagination of a Purgatory but if the Papists hold that some Believers are free from all Sin and perfected in this Life therein they outstrip thee and the Priests who would exclude all Believers from perfection and freedom in this Life Pr. Ye say that all men have a like Light and Grace some do attain to salvation others not which proceedeth not from any difference of Grace given by God but that others have better improven the Light given to all which improvement must indeed come from free will Ye hold Merit You are not so ingenious as Papists An. Concerning Grace being given alike to all if thou intendest in measure or quantity thou hast vainly made repetitions without ground against us but as for the improvement of the Grace it comes not from free will as falsly thou hast said but from the capacity the creature is put into by the Grace it self for mans will is not made free of it selfe but by the Grace or Power of God which worketh in man to will and to do But and if somes not attaining of salvation is because it s either from a difference of the Grace given by God or for want of sufficient Grace given by him according to thy Doctrine then this charges the fault upon God as being partial and the occasion of some mens destruction contrary to that saying of the Prophet He willeth not the death of a sinner but rather his return c. Pr. That the Light that Christ enlighteneth all men with is sufficient for the knowledg of the mysteries of the Kingdom is contrary to Scriptures An. Nay It is not contraâ—y to the Scriptures that the Light of Christ in men is sufficient for the knowledg of mysteries of the Kingdom savingly in that t is sufficient for believing leading out of darkness and to receive the Light of Life And they from whom God hath hid those mysteries are such as disobey the Light and shut their eyes against it as Christ said Their eyes have they closed c. least they should see and be converted and I should heal them All which doth evidence the defect and fault not to be in the Light of Christ but in them that disobey it Pr. The natural man cannot know the things that are of God he hath no sufficient Light to know that which he cannot know An. That therefore he hath no sufficient Light is no true consequence for then by this none have Light sufficient whilst in the natural state which all are in before they are made spiritual thy consequence had onely held to prove the Light insufficient if thou couldest have proved that they that are in the fallen and natural state cannot be changed nor restored into a spiritual state but this were gross to affirm for as man is natural he cannot know the things of the Spirit buâ— the spiritual man doth Pr. The Jewes that had the outward meanes shut their eyes against it neither doth it mean of the Light of Christ within except onely the Light of nature An. The Jews had not onely an outward meanes but also an inward Light the good Spirit of God given to them though they Rebelled and the Word nigh them in their heaâ—ts c. which was not a Light of nature Herein thou hast greatly erred And would Christ have reproved any for shutting their eyes against that which is natural and insufficient and made that the cause of their not being converted and healed See Mat. 13 15. Thine and the Priests darkness and ignorance in this matter How great is it Pr. The Kingdom of God being Righteousness Peace Joy in the Holy Ghost no man that hath not the Sanctifying Spirit hath it or had it within him no peace nor joy in the wicked An. The Kingdom of heaven was in the Pharisees or Jews as Christ said The kingdom of heaven is within you Luk. 17.21 when they were unsanctifyed though they were not come into it nor to attain to the righteousness and peace of it for that 's attained to by such as are translated out of darkness into the Light for all that have a true Light and Seed in them are not in it Pr. The Light of the Scriptures is a Light shining in a dark place 2 Pet. 1. An. The Light that Peter directed them to was the more sure Word of prophecy 2 Pet. 1. And was that the Scriptures of the Prophets Or did that Light come from them or from Christ If so then Why were they not directed to the Scriptures of the Apostles Or Were the Scriptures of the Prophets more sure then the Apostles writings Surely the Light which leads to the day star arising in the heart thou art exceeding ignorant of and thy darkness may be felt Pr. How gross Pelagionisme is that the same Light which was Sanctifying to others that obeyed was Condemning to Judas and Cain Is Gods revealing of those things and hiding of them the same Sanctifying Light and Illumination An. God who reveals those things to the obedient that he hides from the disobedient this plainly contradicts thee and thy former words for God is still the same Light and it is the Spirit of Truth that Sanctifyes and Justifyes the Righteous or Obedient that reproves the world of sin c. And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men love darkness rather then light c. Joh. 3. So in this matter thou hast shewed thy self ignorant of the Scriptures Pr. Where there are many Words of God being taken together they are called the Word of God An. Thou mightest as well say that many words and one word are both one Where provest thou thy assertion For in contradiction to this presently after the Scriptures call Christ the Word of God in some places and sure the Scriptures and Christ are distinguished they are not Christ. Pr. K. 8.46 That there is no man liveth and sinneth not It doth not say there is no man liveth and hath not sinned An. He that abideth in Christ the second Covenant sinneth not but is redeemed out of that state in which there is no man that sinneth not and John said If we say we have not sinned we make him a liar c. 1 Joh. 1.10 Pr. Their begetting is in order of nature before their faith An. Wheâ—e provest that Is begetting in the unbelief then and not in the Faith whereas the Word which begetteth is the Word of Faith and profits not where t is not mixed with Faith within Pr. Those of your way have held out to the world that to have Hebrew Greek and Latine is a mark of Antichrist An. Thou hast often wronged those of our way as thou hast in this wherein thou art answered at first Pr. Those who tell us of a faith in Christ without the Scriptures have no Light in them Secondly There are many things which we think and desire against the Law