Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	know_v	speak_v	word_n	9,131	5	4.2861	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93367	The heads and substance of a discourse; first private, and afterwards publike; held in Axbridge, in the county of Somerset, about the 6th of March, 1650. Between Iohn Smith of Badgworth, and Charls Carlile of Bitsham, &c. on the one part; and Thomas Collier of Westbury on the other. Things they are of weight and highest concernment. / Published by the said Tho. Collier of Westbury.	Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691.; Smith, John, of Badgworth.; Carlile, Charles.	1651 (1651)	Wing S4091; Thomason E1368_2; ESTC R209287	11,613	29

second 2. He denyed a local heaven In this I denyed heaven to be a particular limited place I acknowledged that heaven must have some place for that which hath no place hath no being but that as far as I know it s not a limited place that is some place of glory above the firmament as is imagined but that heaven relates rather to a condition of glory then a place of glory and it s not the place but the condition which makes either heaven or hell He viz. Parson Smith proceeds to proof produces that of Paul being in the third heaven 2 Cor. 12. I asked him if he thought that Paul was taken up above the Starry firmament he answered yea for he knew no other heaven I answered I knew another heaven which Christ speaks of which is within and doubtless this is the heaven the Apostle was in The highest manifestations and injoyment of the Lord so high that he knew not himself whether in the body or out of the body that this is the truth appears in that he is not speaking of being transported personally into such a high place as is imagined for he is speaking of visions and revelations so high heavenly and excellent that he knew not whether he were in or out of the body He produced Steven Acts 7. 55 56. who said Behold I see the heavens open and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God I asked if he thought Steven was so quick sighted as to see so many hundred thousand miles as they say it is and it s very probable Steven was in a house too and that I understood it to be the invisible glory of Father and Son manifest unto Steven he answered that it is said he saw Christ at the right hand of the Father I answered its true but what understand you by right hand that is an expression rather to declare the glory of Christ then the place and that which I understood by right hand was and is the enojoyment of the Fathers love of the Fathers glory at his right hand are pleasures for evermore the apprehensions of wrath and anger is the left hand c. so that heaven which Steven saw open was the glorious opening and unfoldings of the Father and Son whom to behold in love is life and then was a time for Steven to see the heavenly glory of the Father and Son in a speciall manner when under such a trial for the profession of them One Parson Fearn stands up and prest Parson Smith to say something in confirmation of the point in hand for the satisfaction of the people which put him the more to a stand then the said Parson Fearn produced that Scripture Col. 3. 1. If ye be risen with Christ seek those things which are above where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God I answered that this Scripture held forth no local but a spiritual heaven for the heaven here is that into which saints are already risen into if risen with him then above with him beholding the glory of the Son with the Father seeking things which are sutable to such a condition until the Son shall appear in his brightness then shall they appear with him in glory verse 4. for they shall see him as he is 1 John 3. 3. They ask where heaven is if not a particular place I answer as in relation to God its every where he being in all places yet never out of the perfection of glory therefore never out of heaven as in relation to the Creature it s every where where the heavenly light and love is manifest and the soul taken into union with it He asked if I would bring heaven and hell together whether heaven was in hell I answered yea it is in hell you grant that God is in hell then certainly heaven is there for God is never out of the heavenly glory farther two persons may be in one place the one in heaven the other in hell the one in the injoyment of love and grace the other in the apprehension of wrath and anger experience declares the truth of this and thus may it be in another world to eternity seeing its not the place but the condition which makes the difference Again heaven and hell light and darkness joy and sorrow may be in one heart yet the light still distinguished from the darkness hell and heaven distinguished and at a distance each from other Vnto the third 3. He denyed the equality of the Son with the Father this was abused in the terms and after consented unto that he denyed the equality of the Son in the way they hold it forth which is as the second person in the Divine being there I denyed any equality for there is no quality in God quality and equality is only proper to the creature not the Creator Therefore if we consider Christ as God so he is the Father at this he cried out Blasphemy making wonders till I produced the Scripture Esay 9. 6. where he is said to be the mighty God the everlasting Father the Prince of peace The Scripture produced to prove an equality was Phil. 2. 6. Who being in the form of God thought it no robbery to be equal with God to which I answered that the equality there intended was not an equality in the Divine being but the excellent quality of the humane nature by virtue of its union with the Divine and so he thought it no robbery to be equal because God had made him so for its evident in the Scripture that its the same He that was in the form of God and equal with him which died upon the Cross and I suppose none dare affirm that it was the Godhead which dyed upon the Cross therefore I say he was made equall at which they wondred again I proved it thus Act. 2. 36. God hath made that same Jesus whom ye crucified both Lord and Christ And all power is given to the Son And God hath given him a name above every name c. The fourth Particular 4. He denyed that Jesus Christ by his death upon the Cross did satisfie divine Justice In this they likewise abused me for that which I asserted was That Christ by his death upon the Cross did not satisfie divine Justice in the way they hold it forth viz. That God was offended and Christ the second Person steps in and undertakes to make satisfaction to divine Justice This was that which I denyed affirming that the Redemption and Salvation of man flows singly and purely from the Fathers Love and that Christ came forth from the Father did the work of the Father was upheld and carryed through by the Father for saith Christ John 5. 19. The Son of himself can do nothing And God so loved the world that he gave his Son Joh. 3. 16. So that Christ is the manifestation of the Fathers love To clear this truth unto them I gave them this comparison Suppose one of you lend

a man 100. li. vow satisfaction again afterwards this man turns bankrupt and so utterly disables himself for payment of the money You to make good your word and free your debtor enable your son give him the money that so he might pay it you again satisfie your word and free the debtor then you send a messenger to inform him that the debt is paid and his peace is made So God having said In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt die Man eateth and dyeth God to satisfie the word of his Truth and to restore fallen man gives forth his Son that so the Son might give himself a ransom for the world and so the Father in the Son satisfieth his Word which is his divine Justice and maketh peace with the world and by the Spirit of his Son sheds abroad his love and peace in the hearts of his secret hidden ones that so they might come to be possessed with and to live in the enjoyment of that redemption that peace and love which was purposed by the Father and made manifest in the Son for them This Truth being rightly understood is that which keeps the fountain of grace clearly open That fountain opened for sin and uncleanness Zac. 13. And this mysterie of mercy being rightly received draws up souls to the Father in the Son and makes not the Son the object of faith without the Father nor the Father without the Son but the Father in the Son He that believeth on me believeth not only on me but on him that sent me Joh. 12. 44. The fifth particular 5. He denyed the Trinity Here likewise they abused me for that which I denyed was a Trinity of persons in the Godhead which they affirm That which I laid down was this That I denyed not the Trinity that is Father Son and Spirit as the Scriptures hold it forth but a Trinity of persons I deny for I deny any person to be in the Godhead for God is a Spirit Joh. 4. 24. not a person They then proceeded to prove the person of the Father first Heb. 1. 3. where Christ is said to be the express image of his Fathers person I denyed that there was any such word they prest earnest to the Scripture I desired them to look in their Original to see what it was there they said it was person there I told them it was not but it was substance they asked me what the Greek word was I answered {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which signifieth substance they affirmed that it was person not substance I asked them all being six of them whether it was person they all affirmed that it was so I answered that it was a shame for them thus to speak untruth and to delude the people I told them {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} is person they fell out into reproachfull terms denying it all of them except one who confest it was person thus being gravelled in the first they proceeded no farther It s true the Scripture speaks of Father Word and Spirit this I own Father as the fountain Word as streams of wisdom power and love coming forth to the sons of men taking flesh into union so the Son operating and working the good pleasure of his will so the Spirit God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself and God was manifest in flesh but God was not flesh and there is no person in the Godhead that being a word proper to man only and that word is never in all the Scripture that I know attributed to God but they are principles and terms received by tradition from Rome and thither let them return again The sixth particular 6. He affirmed that the Saints are the Sons of God in the same manner as Christ himself This I owned and affirmed That Christ was a Son by vertue of union so were the Saints For which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren because he who sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one Heb. 2. They affirmed that the union of Christ with God was hypostaticall and the union of Saints was mysticall I asked the people if they understood hypostatical union he said it was personall though not truth but substantiall I asked him what he meant by mysticall union he could not answer it but desired me to answer it I told him nay I should not explain his terms so he left it Mysticall signifies a Mysterie Great is the mysterie of godliness so that Parson Smith makes the union and so the sonship of saints a greater Mysterie then that of Christ for Christs union he could explain but the saints was a mysterie and so left but it s indeed both a mysterie a spirituall union and a spirituall relation It was objected by one That it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell and from his fulness we receive I answered true it is so and I shall need no other Scripture to answer you then that you have produced for I am not maintaining the fulness but the manner its true Christ is annointed with the oyl of gladness above his fellows but they are anoynted with the same oyl Christ hath the fulness of the Godhead in him but the saints receive of the same fulness the same for nature and manner though not for measure yet are sons in the same manner as Christ It may be objected that Christ was the naturall son saints are sons by adoption and grace Answ. True yet they are sons by nature too made partakers of the divine Nature and shall in conclusion be made compleat in the same perfection with Christ they are heirs coheirs joynt-heirs with Christ if they suffer with him they shall raign with him Rom. 8. They are made partakers of the same relation the same spirit the same love heirs to the same Kingdom And when Christ who is our life shall appear then shall we likewise appear with him in glory we shall be as he is because we shall see him as he is and shall see our selves with him this is the mark we are running to and the prize we are running for if we so run as to obtain The seventh particular 7. He affirmed that the divine essence was communicated to the Saints This I likewise owned which they denyed proved 2 Pet. 1. 4. Whereby he hath given us exceeding great and precious promises that by these you might be partakers of the divine Nature the divine Nature is the divine Essence they are made partakers of it by great and precious promises promised and performed whereever the Lord communicates his spirit which is of himself and is himself Rom. 8 9. If any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his and if so be the Spirit of Christ dwell in you c. They still opposed that the divine Essence was not communicated to the saints I desired them to declare to the people what the spirit of Christ here mentioned is whether

it be God or not They answered it is God yet not communicated to the saints I answered it is in them it dwels in them they are made partakers of it Where the Lord the Spirit is there is liberty 2 Cor. 3. 17. and Joh. 14. 16 17. I will pray the Father and he shall give you another Comforter and he shall abide with you for ever even the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not neither knoweth him but ye know him for he dwelleth in you hence take notice that the true cause why the wise men of the world do not receive this truth is because they see him not neither know him ignorance is the cause of errour upon this account it was that Christ was crucified upon this account it is that his Spirit is blasphemed this oneness in the Spirit of the Son is a mystery hid not only from the world but in a measure from the Saints too But verse 20 at that day viz. the day of Christs appearing in the revealing of this truth to his people then they shall know that I am in my Father and you in me and I in you at that day they shall know the spiritual union and indwelling presence of Father Son and Saints together But one Parson Eaton and Doctor they call him Parson of the Town newly come there a traveller and one I suppose lately come from Rome I judge it so both by his bitterness inraged spirit set on fire of hell and likewise his principle which he declared he speaks to this purpose if this be a truth then the Saints are God for to whomsoever the Spirit of Christ is communicated they are no longer man but God they must of necessity be God I answered there is no truth in what you affirm I shall make it appear to you thus Christ you will grant was made partaker of the Divine nature the essence was communicated to him and yet he retained his humane nature his manhood was not turned into or confounded with the Godhead he answered that the manhood of Christ was God that God was made man and man was God I denyed it desiring him to prove it he answered I might as well desire him to prove that there was a God as to prove the manhood of Christ to be God in conclusion he produced John 1. The word which was God was made flesh and dwelt amongst us And Acts 20. it is said that God purchased his Church with his own bloud c. I answered the Word was made flesh that is compared with 1 Tim. 3. 16. manifest in flesh great is the mystery of Godliness God manifest in flesh else you destroy the humanity of the Son and his bloud is said to be the bloud of God 1. Because it was the bloud of him who was taken into special spiritual union with the Father Believe me saith Christ the Father is in me Joh. 4. 2. Because it was that bloud the Father had appointed for the manifestation of his love and the expiation of sin yet not of the essence of God This principle that God is man and man God is Jesuitical and came from Rome 8. Particular 8. He affirmed that the bodies of the Saints should be turned into Spirits To which I answered this I own as the Scripture holds it forth viz. Into spiritual bodies it s the word of the Apostle 1 Cor. 15. It s sown a natural body it s raised a spiritual body they answered that Spirits have no bodies therefore if raised Spirits then no bodies for bodie relates unto flesh I answered sin is not flesh and bloud yet called a body that the body of sin might be destroyed c. they said it was called so Metaphorically and so are the Saints in the Resurrection called bodies in regard of its likeness or manifestation to the creatures apprehension for there are Celestial bodies and Terrestial bodies earthly heavenly spiritual fleshly The Apostle saith that flesh and bloud cannot inherit the kingdome of heaven they answered that the Apostle intended by flesh and bloud corrupt nature sin that must be done away I answered the Apostle is not treating about the Resurrection of corruption or corrupt nature but of the body flesh and bloud which cannot inherit the kingdome for the kingdome of heaven is spiritual and only spirit shall inherit it Thou fool that which thou sowest is not quickned except it die that is die to its old nature and form and he giveth it a body as pleaseth him to every seed his own body not the body or likeness of the first man which is of the earth earthly but of the second which is the Lord from heaven this being the mysterious work the Lord hath to effect in and upon his people to bring them out of the nature of the one into the nature and glory of the other The ninth Particular 9. He affirmed that the Moral Law was abolished The truth was and it was assented to that the Moral Law was abolished to believers as held forth in the hand of Moses but unbelievers are still under the Law for whatsoever the Law saith it saith to them which are under the Law Rom. 3. 19. but believers are not under the Law Rom. 6. 14. therefore the Law saith nothing to them they answered that was they are not under the condemnation of the Law nay but the Apostle saith they are not under it therefore the Law viz. as in the hands of Moses saith nothing to them for there is a great mysterie in the right understanding of the difference between the dispensation of Law and Gospel Moses and Christ The Law came by Moses grace and truth came by Jesus Christ He viz. Parson Smith asked if I denyed the Law and whether there was no Law to believers I told him No I knew a Law under which believers were he professed he knew no other Law then the Law of Moses I told him if he would confess his ignorance I would tell him of another Law he said he knew it not I answered there is a Law of Grace both within and without That within is the Law written in the heart promised in Jer. 31. and made good in the Gospel Heb. 8. That Law of the spirit of life spoken of by Paul Rom. 8. which made him free from the Law of sin and death this Law is the light and guide of Saints whosoever hath not this Law within him is none of his Rom. 8. 9. 2. There is a Law without likewise the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Law of Love a light and guide likewise in our weakness and childhood unto the heavenly Canaan He answered this was all one with what he held I answered nay for he held still to the Law of Moses he asked if believers should act contrary to the Law of Moses I answered nay not in the substance of it yet it behoves them to know the difference between Moses and