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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A54177	The new witnesses proved old hereticks, or, Information to the ignorant in which the doctrines of John Reeve and Lodowick Muggleton, which they stile, mysteries never before known, revealed, or heard of from the foundation of the world, are proved to be mostly ancient whimsies, blasphemies and heresies, from the evidence of Scripture, reason and several historians : also an account of some discoourse betwixt L.M. and my self, by which his blasphemous, ignorant and unsavory spirit is clearly and truly manifested, in love to the immortal souls of those few, who are concern'd in the belief of his impostures / by a living true witness to that one eternal way of God, revealed in the light of righteousness W.P.	Penn, William, 1644-1718.	1672 (1672)	Wing P1326; ESTC R15258	38,470	64

Creation of the World to this Day until now By Lodowick Muggleton c. Animadversion XII Who shall we believe of these two they both pretend the same Commission and yet Contradict but how can any Credit be given thereunto when though Reeve sayes he was awake at the receiving of it yet presently after tells us that he knew not whether he was an Immortal God or a Mortal Man what ground is there for any Belief of what Reeve himself was so far from a clear knowledge of as that he was not more unable to resolve whether he was an Immortal God or a Mortal Man then to know the Truth of all his Revelation O the willingness in men to be Blind Certainly if the Devil himself should as a Devil seek Proselytes some would follow him A few Additional Observations upon some Passages of John Reeve and Lodowick Muggleton in the before-cited Books THe Spirit of Faith and Love infinitely in the Glorious Person of God overfloweth as a Fountain continually with Revelation of New Heavenly Wisdom from whence flows New Joyes and Glory to Himself T.S.T. p. 46. Observation That unto which any thing may be added cannot be said to be Perfect and consequently cannot be God but be unto whom Wisdom is renewed wanted that Wisdom before he had it and consequently was not Perfect and therefore not the True God unto whom there is no Encrease of Wisdom Power or Strength but was and is and will be forever the same Unalterable Being Infinite in Wisdom Power and all other Divine Excellencies without any Diminution or Addition The Reason why Men's Bodies in Death or after Death do Rot or Stink in the Grave and come to Dust is because there was Sin in their Bodies whilst they Lived but on the contrary if Men had no Sin in their Natures or Bodies they might Live and Dye and Naturally Rise again by their own Power in their own Time T.S.T. p. 33. Observ O the Exceeding Folly and Blindness of this Sottish Man Why should Sin only cause the Body to Rot Stink and go to Dust Does not the Scripture and Reeve himself in his T.S.T. pag 44. give another Reason namely That what came from Dust is that which must go to Dust besides If the Flesh of Beasts is capable of Dying Rotting and going to Dust who never Sinn'd why should not man have Dyed and gone to Dust though he had never Sinn'd For though there is a vast Difference betwixt Men and Beasts in reference to their Souls and Bodies too so far as may concern the distinction of Kinds yet as to their being lyable to one and the same External Casualities and Sufferings by Hunger Thirst Sickness Death and Corruption no man can rationally contradict But above all this deserves our Observation That since Reeve is Dead Rotten and gone to Dust he was not cleansed from Sin as he is said to have pretended but by Reason of his Wickedness Death holds him in the Grave and consequently he cannot have been God's Last Witness whose Witnesses he hath alwayes cleansed from that against which they were to Witness And it is further evident That Sin is not the cause of Men's Bodies crumbling into Dust from Reeve's own words who saith The Most High God by his Vnsearchable Wisdom hath Decreed that all Light of Life in man shall become Dead Dust or Earth D.L.G. p. 17. So that God's Decree and not Man's Sin in his own sence must be the Reason of such Conversion and Corruption Therefore you may know that the Lord 's Reasoning with the Jews was only by his Prophets which were Rational Men like unto themselves which were sent to Convince those Stony-Hearted Jews by declaring the Glorious God and his Spiritual Truth unto them in the Ballance of their Own Reason D.L.G. p. 117. Observ It is remarkable with what unusual Nonsence and Contradiction he proceeds in his whole Affair since herein he Contradicts one of his main Foundation Principles namely That God hath not in his Glorious Spirit one Motion of Reason inherent nor yet the Elect of God as may be seen D.L.G. p. 18. T.S.T. p. 17. Whereas its manifest unto all men who would not deny themselves the use of their Understandings That none can properly reason of any Subject unto whom Reason cannot be or is not inherent so that if God did both Reason with the Jews and his Prophets were Rational Men then may we safely conclude That Reason is Inherent to God and his Elect Children and that Pure Reason is not inconsistent with or distinct from the Nature of Love and Faith not only because it is most Rational to believe in and love God most uprightly but because John Reeve himself that great Enemy to all sober Reason makes it the Ballance in which the Prophets Declaration of the Glorious God and his Spiritual Truth should be weighed Again I Declare from the Holy Spirit The Lord spake by Voice of words to his Three Commissioners which he hath sent unto the World yea I know God the Father spake unto Moses as a Man speaks unto his Friend and I know that God spake unto the Apostles in the Person of his Son because I know the Lord God spake unto me in the Person of the Holy Ghost only the two former Witnesses saw the Person of God in Part Visibly but I saw the Glory of his Person Invisibly or within me because I am the Messenger of the Holy Invisible Spirit T.S.T. p. 35. Observ Upon all this I make my following Observations as regular as this Irregular Confused Matter will permit me First Then I would fain know how he came to this Mighty Confidence in God's speaking to Moses for it is in no part of his Commission and Muggleton sayes Moses set the Cart before the Horse and they both of them despise the Scripture in comparison of their own Writings Secondly Though God might 〈…〉 the Person of his Son to his Apostles yet I utterly deny upon Reeves Principles that the Lord Jesus could speak unto him in the Person of the Holy Ghost because this would necessarily imply a Trinity of Persons 〈…〉 by him elsewhere absolutely denyed therefore the Lord Jesus could speak to him in no other Person then his own if at all Thirdly If God spake to J. Reeve by Voice of Words because he affirms him to have so spoken to Moses and the Apostles then may we plainly infer that God should as well have shewn his Person unto J.R. as he believes him to have done to Moses and the Apostles since if he did not decline to utter words to the Carnal Ear in this third Commission as is pretended any more then in the two former 〈◊〉 is no Reason in the World why John Reeve's Carnal Eye should not have had equal Priviledg with the former Commissioners in Visibly be holding Gods Person also but since he makes God so differ to in the one we ought the less to believe him in the other

THE New Witnesses PROVED OLD HERETICKS OR Information to the Ignorant in which the Doctrines of John Reeve and Lodowick Muggleton which they stile Mysteries never before known revealed or heard of from the Foundation of the World are proved to be mostly ancient Whimsies Blasphemies and Heresies from the Evidence of Scripture Reason and several Historians ALSO An Account of some discourse betwixt L.M. and my self by which his Blasphemous Ignorant and Unsavory Spirit is clearly and truly manifested in love to the immortal Souls of those Few who are concern'd in the belief of his Impostures By a Living true Witness to that one Eternal Way of God revealed in the Light of Righteousness W.P. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses so do these Reeve and Muggleton also resist the Truth men of corrupt minds reprobate concerning the Faith But they shall proceed no further for their folly shall be manifest unto all men as theirs also was 2 Tim. 3 8 9. Printed in the Year 1672. TO THE READER READER Amongst the many strange Pretentions that have been made to Religion and the Authors and Abettors of variety of Sects through every Generation from the most primitive Christian Times there has not appeared though not a less formidable yet a more compleat Monster on the Stage of Controversie and Opinion then John Reeve and Lodowick Muggleton Brethren and Associates in the Blackest Work that ever fallen Men or Angels could probably have set themselves upon What many Ages singly were infested by we are assaulted with at once and as if the scattered Limbs of Heresie had rallied and re-enforced themselves for a new Combate no sooner was the Glorious Truth appearing then they were ready to make their utmost Opposition either by their Enchantments to delude the Souls of some or through their unparalel'd sottish Folly to scandalize the World in general against all Religion as ridiculous and amongst others the true as also Fabulous Yet the Lord God of Eternal Power whose Thoughts and Wayes are not as Mortal Men's but Infinite and Almighty like himself having decreed the Redemption of the fallen Souls of Men by the Illumination of their Understandings and Quickening of their Minds dead in Trespasses and Sins by the living powerful Operation of is own Eternal Spirit of Holiness did appear in so great Glory and Majesty that those Foggs and Mists which began to over-spread the Earth were soon scattered and the Everlasting Light rise and hath effectually shined forth unto the Convincement and Conversion of Thousands from the Ungodliness of this present Evil World and the Fruitless Religions that are profest therein to live a Sober Heavenly Righteous Life and Conversation But Alas Some few have strayed by the Way One hither and Another thither for want of that Subjection and Holy Watch they ought to have lived in unto the Blessed Living Truth of God And as many Snares have been presented to Delude so amongst others their Sottish Imaginations have not been without the power of a Temptation and too effectual upon some the Lord knoweth which though their Number be but very small yet the Concernment of their Immortal Souls is great For who living that have tasted of the sure Mercies of God and enjoyed of the Reward of Faithfulness to the Truth but must needs Pitty Sorrow and Lament on their behalf some that might have run well and would not others that began to do it and Satan hindred No sooner was Adam and Eve made sensible of the Blessedness of their Innocent State then the Serpent endeavoured to beguile them How by Preaching Righteousness Holiness Watchfulness and Godly Fear as without which none should ever see the Lord No nothing less but by Idle Dreams Lucifican Thoughts and Exalted Imaginations above the lowl● Awe and Fear they ought to have lived in towards their Almighty Creator And thus in some measure hath it faired with a few unhappy Souls that have been beguiled by these Imposters I shall not altogether make it my Business to confute his Tenants but since they more then once with an intollerable Pride boast of these things as New Revelations and challenge the whole World to disprove them and upon this single credit it is that their credulous Adherents are so mightily perswaded of their Patrons Sincerity and Infability it being their first Lesson at entrance To abandon all Scripture or inward Witness And that Muggleton to my knowledge in his Discourses and otherwise makes it his brag That he not only knows more then all men ever did or shall know to Eternity but that the Doctrines Reeves and he say they are deputed to declare by vertue of an immediate oral Commission from God himself are such divine Revelations as were never known to Men or Angels before them And consequently since their Followers have nothing for a Proof besides their bare Assertion which is most arrogant and false for they deny all inward Witness It will appear both reasonable and necessary that by an external Judge and Witness they should be tryed and if upon their Arraignment at the Bar they be found only to have patcht up old Phantisms together and published them under the Name of Transcendant Spiritual Treatises Divine Looking-Glasses and the like I hope they will be judg'd by every sober Person to be both horrible Imposters and their Commission to be a meer Counterfeit THE New Witnesses Proved OLD HERETICKS c. I now proceed to perform what has been promised by most Undeniable Proof First REeves and Muggleton declare as a great Secret to the World That God is not an Infinite Spirit in every Place at all Times contrary to the Scriptures which say He measures out the Heavens with his Span nor can the Heaven of Heavens contain him but against men and Angels and by Authority from the holy Spirit to use their own words God is but in the shape of a man and that man in respect of his Body is the Image of God Trans Spirit Treat p. 15. Deu. Look Glass p. 3 4. That this is against Scripture we prove First There is none like to the God of Jeshurun who rideth upon the Heaven in thy Help and in his Excellency on the Sky The Eternal God is thy Refuge and underneath are the Everlasting Arms Deut. 33.26 27. If the God of Jeshurun be the true God and none be like to him then cannot mans bodily shape be the Likeness of the true God consequently if Muggleton's God● be in the likeness of mans bodily shape he is not the True God because he is not that God of Jeshurun which none is like unto Again If the Almighty God were but of the dimention of a middle statured man how could he be said to ride upon the Heavens and the Sky and to have his Everlasting Arms under a People many of whom being singly bigger then himself for by Muggleton's Principles We are still to keep to the Litteral sence Secondly But will God indeed dwell on the

new thing 'T is strange therefore that Moses was not rather of the two elected to represent him in Heaven who was a Figure of him on Earth But though Reeve would not tell us so I am of the mind I know the Reason of it namely That Christ did not call Moses Moses but Eli Eli when upon the Cross and I am perswaded he had no other Ground for that Conceit not considering that Eli Eli are Hebrew words importing no more Elias Elias then they do Moses Moses but My God My God as the place expresly shews us Much more might be said but let this serve Thirdly That the Immortal God could never Dye or cease to be is manifest and the contrary Blasphemously False 1. If God was he that made all things and by whom they are upheld as all believe that believe there is a God at all then had he ceased to be the Creation had ceased to have been upheld and consequently all had fallen into its first Chaos or the World can subsist without Him 2. That he whose Nature it was never to have Beginning and ever to live without Variation could never become so contrary to his own Nature and Being as to change dye or cease to be but such was the true God therefore he never dyed 3. If Saints live move and have their being in God as say Reeve and Muggleton pag. 201. D.L.G. then either God never dyed or there were no Saints when the Jews Crucified Christ or the Saints dyed too They deny them all they say God Dyed and there were Saints and they Lived Moved and had their Being in God though Dead which how all or any of them can hang together let sober People judge 4. If God dyed who lived and by whom for nothing can live of it self that had beginning from or dependance on another as had all the visible World on God therefore because all lived and was preserved that had its Being from God He from whom they had their Being could not be annihilated whilst they remained in being 4. If God was raised by Elias then either Elias was the True God or Elias the Creature was stronger then Jehovah the Great Creator Let this serve to confute and forever to overturn these idle Chimera's of those filthy Dreamers Reeve and Muggleton That this Blasphemous Conceit of the Immortal God's Mortality is not new I shall make appear 1st Valentinus is said opened to have published at Rome That Christ brought a Body down from Heaven and that he after some time passed through the Virgins Body again Noetus affirmed That the Father Son and Holy Ghost were Flesh or that one Person of the Son of Man or that Person so long since at Jerusalem to be Father Son and Spirit and that when he suffered on the Cross the Father Son and Holy Spirit dyed See Euseb his 4th Book and 10th Chap. Ireneus Epiphanius Heres 31. 57. about Anno 150. which is 1522. years since What Strange New Revelation this is Lastly I May mention another of their Tenets held at this day by all Calvinists abroad and of several Sects in these Nations namely Predestination or that God from all Eternity without any other Inducement then his own Pleasure hath decreed some for Salvation and some for Damnation contrary to which all their Obedience or Rebellion shall be in vain to alter his Determination That this Principle is Accurst by SCRIPTURE I prove First The Righteousness of the Righteous shall be upon him and the Wickedness of the Wicked shall be upon him but if the Wicked will turn from all his Sins that he hath committed and keep my Statutes he shall surely live he shall not dye Ez. 18.20 21. 1. If Righteousness or Wickedness are the Grounds of God's Rewarding or Punishing the Souls of men then is there no Predestination previous without consideration had to their Works but the Text affirms most plainly therefore such Decrees are denyed and disowned 2. If Man may turn from his Righteousness and Wickedness then are the Means no more inevitably predestinated for men to use then before mentioned but men may turn from either and accordingly they will be rewarded therefore no such Predestinated Damnation or Salvation Secondly For it is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour who will have all men to be saved and to come unto the Knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim. 2.3 4. If the Apostle writ by the Spirit of God that gives to know the Mind of God then it was the Good Will of God that all men not excluding any upon a Predestination should come to the Knowledge of the Truth and be saved And consequently there is no Predestinated Restraint upon men's Understandings from knowing the Truth nor fore-appointed Bar from their enjoying the End of such True Knowledge even the Salvation of their Souls Thirdly The Lord is not slack concerning his Promise as some men count slackness but is long suffering to us-ward not willing that any should perish but that all should come to Repentance 2 Pet. 3.9 The Long-suffering of God either related to the Elect or Reprobate or Neither Not to the Elect because there is no need of fearing their Perishing Not to the Reprobate for there is no possibility of their Repentance Therefore to neither and consequently either the place is spurious or deceitful or else those kind of Elections and Reprobations are meer Phantisms Let these few Instances serve of those hundreds that might be mentioned most expresly to confirm the same That this is highly Inconsistent with REASON I briefly prove First It renders God most Vnwise to make so many thousand Creatures on purpose to Rebel against him to Kill Lye Steal Blaspheme and commit all manner of Outragious Wickedness to the grieving of his own Spirit the making him Repent he had made the World and Obstructing of his Glorious Work of Reformation Secondly It greatly Disparageth his Justice which consists in proportioning Rewards and Punishments to the Good and Evil Works of Men and overturns both by making the Eternal States necessary and unavoidable upon a Predestination without any Regard to their Works so that man is damn'd for not doing what he can't do no more then it is possible for him to break an Almighty Decree Thirdly It quite destroyes his Mercy and renders him the most Cruel of all Beings for instead of not being willing or desiring the Death of a Sinner He is here made to desire and take Pleasure in it too nay so essential is this Unutterable Cruelty to his Glory as say the Asserters of this Opinion that it would be lessened or ecclipsed without it Oh Infamous Fourthly But above all things it strikes at the very Root of God's Rectitude and Faithfulness and makes him worse then the worst of Men or Devils for whilst he sayes Your Sins have kept good Things from you as I live I delight not in the Death of a Sinner Repent and that Iniquity

art a Damned Devil remember Thomas Loe who was the Wickedst Devil that ever I knew who never went out of his bed after I Curst him P. Thy Curses are under my Feet Tho. Loe was known to be an infirm Man in his Natural Constitution as well as by his great Labours for near these sixteen years who is gone to rest But art thou not ashamed to say he never went out of his Bed who was as well as he used to be and often after abroad and when he fell sick was often up and changed his Lodging before he dyed having been ill three Weeks Is this thy Infallible Spirit that thou suggests Lyes to thy self and others M. I heard so P. Is that enough for one that pretends to be the last Witness of the High and Mighty God to say for a Lye I heard so Cover thy Face for Shame M. He writ me a Curse and he writ a very good Hand too but for all that He was a Damned Devil and thou W.P. art as arrant a Devil as he and you shall be Damn'd together P. Lodowick in this thou hast told another Lye for it was an Apprentice that writ it Where is thy Unerring Spirit now thou vile Impostor And for being Devils and Damn'd together God rebuke thee only this know that I am willing to go where he went and whither we go thou canst not come without great and unfaigned Repentance M. Just so many of you Quakers have dyed after my Curse amongst others William Smith P. This is another Notorious Lye for the man is yet Living Well Muggleton God will reckon with thee for all thy Wickedness M. Thou art a Cheat and a Deceiver W.P. my Friend spoke G.W. Muggleton have a care what thou sayst for though it is our Religion to forgive Injuries yet perhaps his Friends would question thee and make thee prove it M. I care not a Part for Him nor his Friends nor the Greatest Man in England P. Thy Black Mouth is no Slander but know Muggleton That from my Youth I have sought God and dared not willingly to abuse a Worm and as my Friend has said thou knowest there are Laws other People make use of to vindicate their Credit by but I forgive thee thereby thou mayst know the Difference betwixt our Gods and our Religions thou Revilest and possest Curses upon me I Freely Forgive thee M. I care not a TURD for you nor the Laws neither This with many more Unsavory Foul Expressions fell from his Mouth He also affirmed That God never gave a Law but to Devils and that Moses and the Israelites were so I askt him If he received a Law He said Yes I askt him for whom He said For the People of these Nations to whom he was sent I told him Th●● that render'd both himself and those to whom he was sent Devils by his own Assertion In short Such Impertinency such Blasphemy such sottish Nonsense and such Vnsavory Ill-bred Expressions I don't remember to have heard from the Mouth of any man pretending to Religion If this be your Prophet you that believe in him your last Witness the only Messenger of the Spiritual Dispensation and Grand Commissioner of Heaven whom all must credit or be damned For Shame own not so manifest an Impostor so foul a Wretch so ill an Example his Arrogancy his Ignorance his Sottish Life his Cowardliness and finally his Abominable Lying spirit is far from the Holy Patient Suffering Self-denying and Heavenly Life of Christ and his Apostles who being Reviled they Blessed I therefore intreat nay warn the Reader hereof and to fear the Infinite Almighty God whose Mighty Judgments for Sin in the Consciences of Men and Women are come and not to Worship this Beast nor any Evil Thing by bowing to his dark Imaginations For know of a certain the Time is at hand when every Word Faith and Work shall be tryed that they who believe the Truth and live in it may have Rejoycing in themselves and not in another when Muggleton's airy Stories which may perhaps swell and puff up the Minds of silly People shall vanish and such as have made his Lyes their Refuge shall be swept away and their place not to be found among the Living Therefore mind the Light the Grace the Gift of God in your selves which leads to Repentance and all manner of Godly Conversation a thing Muggleton meddles not with that by it your Hearts may be sanctified and settled in the Belief of the Truth as it is plainly revealed to every particular in Christ Jesus so shall you obtain a sound Understanding and possess the Habitations of True Peace when Muggleton and his obstinate Brats shall Howl in the Lake that burns with Brimstone and Fire forever and evermore William Penn. JOHN REEVE AND LODOWICK MUGGLETON Contradicting Themselves and One Another IT can be no Wonder unto such as have impartially read thus far that these men should contradict themselves and one another who are filled in their Discourses or rather Ravings with nothing sober and consonant but Confusion heap'd upon Confusion to the astonishing of every man that is in earnest about Religion and has any due Fear and Reverence for God but because they lay it down as the Mark only of the True Commissioners of Heaven in nothing to Jar or Contradict I am the more induced to add to my own pains and the Readers in a Comparison of their Contradictions Doth not this Demonstrate those to be the Commissionated Witnessers of the Unerring Spirit that are indue with a Divine Gift to write a Volumn as large as the Bible and as pure a Language as that is with as much Variety of Matter without looking in any Writing whatsoever or HAVING ANY REAL CONTRADICTION IN IT R. M. Div. Look Glass page 112. Contradiction I. Therefore it is written Dust thou art and unto Dust thou shalt return When the Lord spake those words he did not speak to the Flesh or outward Form or Body of the Man but he spake to the Inward Spirit or Soul that understands the words of a Spirit Look in his Transc Spiritual Treatise p. 44. Wherefore it may be queried by some What was that which entred into the Dust and brought forth Angelical Bodies was it any thing else but the Divine Nature of God himself Unto this curious Query from the true Light of Life I answer That neither the Spirit of Angels nor any other Creatures were formed of the Divine Nature but the Souls of Adam and Eve only His Divine L. Glass pag. 8. Animadversion I. If that which returns to Dust cannot be said to return to Dust unless it first came from Dust then if the Soul returns to Dust it consequently came from Dust and if from Dust then was it not formed of the Divine Nature as on the other side is affirmed and therefore a Contradiction Contradiction II. Again I declare That when the Elect are Glorified they are absolutely of the very