euer calleth vpon the name of the lorde shal be saued But how can thei call vpon hym in whome they haue not belued and how shal thei beleue in hym of whom thei haue not harde And how can they heare without a preacher And agayne how shal thei prea the except thei be sent By these wordes of Paule we maie perceiue that sendyng is veary necessary whiche doeth not equally pertaine vnto all men For Paule .i. Corin. xii saieth that there be many giftes And eauen as the body is one thynge and hath many lymmes which lymmes though thei belong all to one body yet neuerthelesse haue not all owne offyce in the body so it is in the churche and misticall body of Chryste God dyd putte and ordeyne some in the churche to be apostels some to bee prophetes and interpretours of scriptures some to bee teachers some to bee potestates and rulers summe to haue the giftes of healynge summe to minister to the poore summe to gouerne and summe agayne to haue the knowledge of tonges If so bee that the offyce of teachyng shulde equally perteine vnto al men Paul would haue sayed that god hadde ordeyned all to bee prophettes and teachers but he sayeth he hathe ordeyned summe to bee apostels c. Why dare then the Anababtistes presume so much as for to set them selues forthe by their own autoritee to preache to teach againste the doctrine of Paule Hebrues .v. No man saieth he doeth vsurpe or presumptuousli take that honor vnto hym selfe but he which is called by god as Aarō so christ did not glorifie hym selfe to bee made bisshoppe but he that saied vnto hym Thou art my sonne and to daye haue I begotten the. And in an other place Thou arte a priest for euer after the order of Melchysedecke After this maner dooeth Iohn Babtiste testifye of the mission and sendynge of Chryste in the fyrste and thyrde chapiter of Iohn And of his owne sendyng doeth he hym selfe speake in the .i. cha of Iohn saiynge There was a man sente by god whose name was Iohn when he was also asked by what authoritee he did teache and babtize he did bryng forthe out of Esaie and Malachie a testimony and witnesse of his mission and sendyng So the Apostelles were bothe called and sent as it appeareth by the x. and .xxviii. of Mathew by y ◠last of Mar. and .xx. of Io. Paule doeth testifie in y ◠begynnyng of his epistels and specially in the epistell to y ◠Galathiās that he was called In the .xiii. of the Act. he with Barnabas is segregated by the holy ghost and sent to preache In Moises also in all the prophetes their mission and sendyng is manifested But agaynst them that dooe renne beyng not called and without sendyng doe preache in the .xxiii. of Hieremy the lorde speaketh thus Thei did renne but I sent them not Therfore I do thynke that this conclusion is sufficiently proued and that it is manifeste enough that the Anababristes dooe not in this thyng behaue them selues wel and godly whiche thowgh thei be not called doingerate and thrust them selues in to the office of preachers Which thyng as we doe reade was neuer done by none of the Saintes Symon All this that thou hast brought dooeth nothyng agaynste the Anababtistes For thei saie that thei bee sent by the father and by the holy ghost Ioiada To what thing or for what pourpose Symo◠To teache the truthe to preache of god and to rebuke synne Ioiada It is proued before as thou thy selfe haste graunted that we dooe the same thynge in those places where the gospell is preached What neede haue we then of this mission and sendynge of the Anababtistes To these places where the gospell is preached god dooeth not sende men to plante and set errours to moue sedicion and to teache contrary doctrine to the truthe to separat and make diuision in the churche But the Anababtistes dooe all these thynges therfore they bee not sente by god For god is not the god of dyssencion but of peace and concorde .i. Corin. xiiii Symon Thei saie alwaies that they bee sente of god Ioiada Thei doe saie so in dede but not truely For Sathan can transforme and transfigurate hym selfe into an angell of light ii Corin .xi. but he is not therfore a good aungell Symon Is it not written in the iix cha of Iohn that he which is of god speaketh the woorde of god the Anababtistes dooe preache the worde of god therfore they bee sent of god Ioiada Arrius dyd preache the worde of god That is to saye the father is greaterthan I am ergo he was sent by god Symon Not so Ioiada Is not this the worde of god the father is greatterthan I am Symon He dyd preache the worde of god beyng falsely vnderstonded wrethyng and wrastynge the scriptures ergo he was not sent of god Ioiada The Anababtistes dooe the same the refore they bee not sent by god though they dooe neuer so muche boast and crake that thei doe preache the truthe and worde of god Which thing all the heretikes dyd before and Sathan also dooeth vsurpe the worde of god Mathew .iiii. but it foloweth not that he is sent by god That saiynge whyche thou hast brought out of the .iii. chapiter of Iohn perteyneth onely to Chryste who because y ◠he was come frome god hath perfite knowlage of diuine and heauenly thynges Which thing Iohn Babtiste goeth about to proue to his disciples Symon The Anababtistes doe saie that ye doe deprauate the scriptures Ioiada It skylleth not what they saie whyche are nothynge shamed to lye as it shall manyfestly appere hereafter For sythe that by this authoritee taken out of the. iii chapiter of Iohn and applied to Chryste alone thei adscribe vnto them selues that which belongeth to Chryste onely who dooeth not perceiue and see that thei be enemies of the truthe We know what sklanderous wordes thei doe vomite out and speake agaynste vs callyng vs theues robbers Antichristes false prophetes and seductors We doe impute this to the weakenesse of the flesshe and forbeare for Chrystes sake We might cleare our selues if nede were proue that thei doe beelye vs. But so thei haue nede to proue y ◠thei be sent of god by other thinges thē by sklanderous wordes and railinges Sy. I can not saie none other but that I haue harde them saie that thei are sent of god Ioiada No doubt there is but that thei be ignoraunt and know not whiche waie god doeth call what are the tokens and signes of vocacion and sendyng For thei that are called sent of god are manifested by certaine tokens and signes whiche doe folow that it maie appeare that thei be truely called and sent either by miracles or by manifest vocacion and sendynge but specially by dexteritee or aptenesse integreted of lyfe constauncy and stedfastnesse erudicion and learnynge woorthy suche sendynge and vocacion Symon what and if ye dooe faine all this
kyngdome of heauen where no vncleane thing entreth it foloweth that our synnes are forgyuen vs. Sy. I do not denay but that we were ones all synners that those synnes were ones forgyuen vs by Chryste But I will saie this that after that the synnes which we committed before thorow ignoraÌ„cye be ones thorow the grace of God forgyuen vs and so bee receaued by the free gyfte and goodnesse of Christ in to y â— numbre of the chyldren of god that then we be pure holy and clene and that we ought to synne no more and that if we synne wittyngly after that we haue ones knowen receaued the grace such sinne is not forgiuen Io. But thou mightest sufficiently vnderstand by the places afore aledged â–ª that we be yet sinners styll after that we haue knowen the truthe and that those sinnes which we do daily commit as long as we ar in Christ â—e daily forgyuen vnto vs. For Chryste saieth that his disciples are all cleane but neuerthelesse that thei haue neade to washe their fete And again the father dooeth make cleane the bowghes that doo bring forth fruite in Christe If thei dooe bryng forth fruit thei do bring forth fruite in faith and in the knowen truthe for without faith it is impossible that any man shulde please God what so euer is without faith is siÌ„ne and not fruit If thei be made cleane thei haue some filthines in the knowen truthe Els thei shulde be cleane and shuld nede no clensynge or purgynge But sith that thei be made clene the filthinesses that thei do gather in bringyng forth fruit ar forgeuen and washed awaie Neither Pelagius nor Nouatus nor none of the Anababtistes is able to withstand this veritee Sy. I am not farre frome this opinion yet notwithstanding had I leuer to heare plain scriptures that a man maie come to grace as often as he synneth Io. And that can I shew vnto the besyde the fore aleged places The lorde speaketh thus by Ezechiell When the vngodly shall turne from y â— vngodlines that he hath done doeth iudgement rightwisnesse he shall get life vnto his soule Is the death of y e vngodly a pleasure vnto me saieth y â— lorde and not rather that he turne from his waies and liue Turne and repent from al your iniquitees and your iniquitee shall not hurt you In the .ii. of Ioel. Turne to y e lord your god saieth he for he is gentill and piteful he is pacient of great mercifulnes repenteth vpon y â— plage y t he had threatened Sy That whiche thou hast aleged is to be vnderstanded of the vngodly of y â— remission of sinnes y t is graunted vnto them that neuer knew god neuer beleued in him Io. I wold y â— thou shuldest loke better vpon y â— wordes of Ezechiell thou shuldest se y t he speaketh these woordes to y â— children of Israell whiche were the chosen people of god Moreouer considre with what ende he dooeth conclude this chapiter Why shoulde ye dye saieth he o ye house of Israel I wyll not the death of a sinner but y â— hereturn lyue Or canst thou returne to hym with whoÌ„ thou wast neuer before Sy. No but I doo come to hym and do not returne but with whom I was afore and from whome I was gone to hym doo I return againe Ioi Ergo it foloweth that they which are exhorted by the prophete to returne to god were somtymes with god If thei were sometymes with god ergo this is not the fyrste sinne that thei did committe afore that thei knew the truthe but it was the synne that thei committed after that thei knew the truthe and had faith We haue proued I thynke that the synnes that we coÌ„mit after the knowledge of the truth are forgeuen by God In the .xxiiii. of the Prouerbes it is written that a rightwyse man falleth vii tymes in the day ryseth a gayne but that the vngodly do fall to their vtter dampnacion Here thou hast a manifest and a playne difference betwexte the godly the vngodly or betwixt the faithfull infidell The vngodly after that he is come in to the bothomlesse pitte of vngodlynesse dothe contempne remayneth in synne to the last ende with dispayre A godlye man is not he that synneth not but he which falling .vii. tymes in the day doth not continew in synne but ryseth agayne With this place are the Palagians Nouatians and Anababtistes confounded conuicted Adde vnto these the .xviii. of Mat. the .xvii. of Luke where Christ doth plainly say If thy brother dothe trespasse agaynst the rebuke him betwixte the and him alone if he be sori for his offence or repenteth forgeue thou him And if he .vii. tymes in the day dothe offende the .vii. tymes in the day cometh to the saiyng I am sory for myne offeÌ„ce thou shalt forgeue him Sy. But he doth not saye that he wyll forgeue vs our synnes Ioia Canst thou pray or say thy Pater noster Sy. yeas Ioia Doest thou not thou pray this Forgeue vs our trespasses as wee forgeue them that trespasse against vs Vnto these woordes dothe the Lord adde by and by in the .vi. chapiter of Mathew If ye doo forgeue vnto men their fautes your father that is in heauen shall forgeue you also Seyng therfore that wee doo forgeue vnto oure brethren daily it foloweth that the father of heaueÌ„ forgeueth vs also daily Do not the saintes or holy men pray so and that euery day Nowe I aske the whether they do lye before God praiyng thus or not S. They do not lye Io. If they do not lye it foloweth that thei haue in them selfe trespasse and synnes If so be that synne as thou thynkest is not forgeuen whye dyd Christe teache vs to prai so forgeue vs our trespas Is not this an abhominable thyng that any man whiche knoweth not what he dooeth praye shoulde take vpon hym not only to be a teacher but also to teache that whiche repugueth against y e manifest truth and prayers of the Sayntes But what thynkest thou of Peter was he a faithfull ChristeÌ„ man elected of God or not Sy. He was not a faithful Christen man afore his falle els he wolde not haue denyed Christ Ioi If he had ben an infidel to what intent were these wordes spokeÌ„ mat xvi Thou artchrist the son of the lyuyng god Are these the wordes of an infidell And agayne if Peter had ben an infidell or hipocrite when he dyd make suche a godly confession Christ would not haue sayde Thou art blessed SymoÌ„ Flesh and blood hath not reuelated this thynge vnto the but my father which is in heauen The LORDE prayseth not hipocrites and infidels but abhorreth hateth them Mat. vi and .xxiii. He would not haue said vnto him he that is washed hath no neale but to washe his feete And agayne Peter I haue prayed for thee that thy faith do not faile or slake Rede
which though he hath feeleth in him self sinne and weakenesse of the flesh beyng tickeled with sensualitie affections yet not withstaÌ„dyng dothe not geue the bridell vnto the flesh ne vnto synne but resisteth styll and is alwayes a frayde to fall And if so be that he chaunceth to fall by and by draweth he backe his foote and repentyth Sy But they saye that a man may be without syn Ioi We are without synnes as dogges be without fleas in the moneth of August O abhominacion that men should thinke or presume suche thingê I passe ouer here that by this opinion they doo blaspheme the veritie of the gospel yea take vtterly away the grace mercy of God For where synne is not there is no grace where preuaricacion and transgression is not there is no Remission amonge them there is no transgression ergo the grace of God is not a mong them Is not this to abolish the grace of God What shall I saye but that these mad braynes do fal into another heresye that is to saye in to the heresy of that blasphemous maÌ„ Pelagius who dyd denye the grace of God magnifiyng and extollyng the strengthe of man He was .xi. C. yeares ago Sy. But they proue thys with scriptures Ioia The veritie of the scriptures dothe teache nothing so Beside that thou canst bring no exemple but the exemple of Lucifer which woulde be lyke vnto God as they wyll be without synne wheras no man can be pure and without synne but God onely Sy. Dothe not Iohn say that he whiche is of God synneth not Ioia He synneth not to death Sy. Thou doest so expouÌ„d it or this is thyne exposicion Ioai Consider the wordes that go afore and thou shalte vnderstand that I saye true Sy What synne is that or is not a man without synne when he synneth not to death Io. Christ saieth vnto the Iues If ye do not beleue ye shal dye in your synnes Ergo vnfaythfulnesse is a deadly synne or syn to death And though a faythful beleuer is without this syn that is to say without infidelitie yet he is not without vyce or syekenesse which he must be ware of always lest he be drouned in syn or soiled defiled w t the abhominable fylthynesse of sinnes therfore it followeth in Iohn We do know that all that is borne of god sineth not but he that is borne of god doth kepe himself theuyll toucheth him not So therfore the godly sineth not though he falleth by frailnes yet notwithstaÌ„ding that malicious Satan can not catche him For the diligent study labor that the godly dothe take in shunnynge auoidyng synne that is to say faith doth that syn is not imputed for syn It is written in the .viii. Rom. That ther is no condemnacion vnto theÌ„ that be in christ which do not walke after the flesh but after the spirit Els saint Iohn doth say in the same self epistle If we do say we haue no syn we deceyue our selfê truth is not in vs. If we do coÌ„fesse our sines god is both faithful rightwise to forgeue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from our iniquitie If we do say we haue no synne we make him a lier his worde is not in vs. There be many suche places euery where in the scriptures Dauid doth crye out O Lorde do not enter into iudgement with thy seruaunt for in thi sight no maÌ„ shal be iustified And agayne if thou lookest extremely vpon our synnes o lord who is able to abyde it In the xliii of Esa the lord doth speke thus by the Prophet vnto the Iues which dyd glorify boast them selues in the rightwysnes of y e law I am he I am he saith y â— lord that taketh away thyne iniquities for myne owne sake wyll not remembre thy sines Bring me into remembraunce let vs be iudged together telle furth if thou hast any thyng to iustifie thy selfe Thy father hath synned fyrst and thyne interpreters haue gone out of the way None of the most holy men were euer without sinne which thyng manifestly appereth in Adam Noe Abraham Isaac Iacob Moyses Aaron ` Dauid Iosias Ezechias Peter Paul Matew c. Therfore Iob speaketh truly Iob .ix. What am I that I should answer him and speake with him with my wordes which though I had some rightwysnesse wyl not answer but entreate my iudge If I wyll iustifye my selfe my mouth shall condemne me if I say that I am innocent my mouth shall proue me wicked c. Paule in the .iii. Rom. sayeth that al men haue sined do want the glory of god In y â— .xiii. of Ihon christ sayeth he that is washed hath no neade but to wash his feete for he is all cleane If he be all cleane what neade hathe he to wash his feete If he hath neade to wash his feete how can he be all cleane Therfore we ar clensed purified with the blood of Christ that was shed vpon the crosse from the filthines of syn be all cleane But it followeth not by this that we be no more i the flesh or that we be no more synners For the dregges of syn do remayne in our feete that is to say in our affections as long as we liue walke in this dust i and foule way we are soyled contaminated with the filthynesse of synne which we neade with perpetuall study and daily care to washe awaie and afterwardes to wype out these filthinesses with gret inward grefe repentaunce and teares in the vertue of the passion and death of Chryst Finally christ in the .xv. of Iohn saieth I am the trewe vine and my father is the husbande man He doeth take awaie euery bough in me that bringeth forth no fruite euery bowgh y â— bryngeth for the fruite he doeth purge make cleane that he mai bryng forth more fruite By the which saiynges we maie vnderstande y e we that are in Christ thorowe faith as a bowgh is in y â— vine doo bryng forth fruite liuyng godly haue neuerthelesse nede to be made cleane and that by the spirit and vertue of Christ Now y e which is made cleane must nedes to be vnpure vnclene So we that ar in Christ alredy ar made clene daily for we do offend in many thinges and no man is liuyng that sinneth not and that hath no nede of this clensyng Except the Anababtistes whiche in their hathe be made so pure clene by their water wherwith thei do wash their disciples among whom water doeth take awaie that which the blood of Christ doeth not take awaie in them that are godly Sy. I do not see yet proued that he which falleth againe after that he hath knowen the truthe doeth daily fynd grace pardon Io. It is sufficientli proued by y â— saiyngs of Iohn and by the exemple of Dauyd and of Peter For if we be all synners and yet neuerthelesse doo entre into the
own that is to say howses and possessions and moreouer maye liue of the gospell THat the Anababtistes ar so enuious and do imagine al wayes and forge calumniacions and lyes who dooeth not see that it commeth of a hatered that they haue against the preachers of the gospell that they may crepe in and aduaunce theÌ„ selues eâ—tenuatyng therfore the faythfulnes and fidelitee of the sheapeheardes before the commons because they may the better bee beleued them selues CHristen men whiche are ryghtfully chosen may w t out any offeÌ„ce of god be are rule sith that power is the mynister of god THis power is not onely profitable but also necessarie for christen men therfore we must be obedient vnto it according to the doctrine of christ Peter and Paule THey which wyll not be obedient to the common magistrates and rulers or do resist against them doyng them at any tyme wrong and reproch fulnes be not christen men but Sanlonites THei that refuse to make laufull othes vnto the publike rulers do manyfestlye against the wyl of god beyng autours of sedicion and all dysobedience THe magistrate and rewler hath the sworde from God wherwith he may smite the malefactours and shed the blud of wicked dooers that both the malefactours may be punysshed and the good and righteous liue surely among the wicked THe libertie of a christen maÌ„ is not carnall they therefore that in the gospell do seke carnall thynges and fleshly are the fellowes of Symon Magus VVe doe not learne in y â— gospell that we shuld pay neither rentes nor tithes but that we ought to paie our debtes vnto whom so euer we owe any thyng THe administracioÌ„ of bodily thynges doeth perteâ—ue to y â— magistrates rulers whiche doe christen men lyke whan thei doe after this rule what so euerye will that men doe vnto you doe the same vnto other VVho so euer kepeth this law rule may be and remayne stil a christen man though he receiueth bothe rentes and tithes These articles haue I here put generally because that a great parte of y â— Anababtistes do hold against them â–ª for I know y â— it is impossible y t any man should reherse al their errours sith y t thei be iÌ„finit w tout number For it is no meruel y t thei do fall from one errour into an other seyng y t thei haue not y e same spirite of truthe Whiche thyng causeth y t so dyuerse contrary sectes do aryse among them that the one doeth condemne and excommunicate the other Symon If thou haddest rehersed these articles before them thou couldest not haue done it w tout a 〈…〉 and sharpe answere Ioiada I haue proued my Symon and that a greate whyle a go their poysoned and v 〈…〉 d hertâ—s and tounges bothe ready to all kynd of reuyling and opprobriousues and also more bytter than is any worme wode wher by any man maye coniecte and knowe of what spirite these phaÌ„tastical felowes doe speake But reade thou the thryde chapiter of the epystell of saincte Iames and thou shalte knowe that I saye true Symon I praie the that thou wylt reherse out of this chapiter the thinges y t moste chyefly doe for our pourpose Ioiada These are the wordes of the apostel Who is wyse and endued with knolage amonge you Let hym shewe by his good conuersacion his workes with a gentell wysdome If so be that ye haue bytter enuye and contencion in your hertes dooe not ye boaste of it nor be liers againste the truth For that wisdome is not connyng from aboue but yerthly beastelyke and deauelyshe For where tnuye and contentacion is ther is incoÌ„stancie and wicked workes But the wisedom whiche is from heauen or from aboue first is chaste after peasible meake tretable full of mercie and of good fruites withoute rache or vnaduised iudgement and simulacion Hitherto haue we rehersed the wordes of Iames. Ponder and iudge now whether the holy Apostle did not liuelye describe the fashions and doctrin of the Anababtistes For what do they els but ineth and rayle against other men and that of a despitefull enuye and bitternes oppressing theÌ„ w t preiudicial seÌ„tence and iudgemeÌ„t Sy. They promesse to make an aunswere before any manne and to geue a reasonable accoumpt of their doctrine and learnyng Moreouer that they wyll suffer them selues patiently to be conuicted of errour Ioiada Why dooe they promesse that whiche thei wil neuer perfourm Thou thy selfe haste knowen manye to saye the truthe they doe all of a pretudiciall sentence stiflie and with great pertinacy staÌ„d in their owne oppinions which saied that thei ware sufficieÌ„tly tawght dyd knoledge their erroure and offered them selues to recante yea and dyd forswere their errour And by and by as sone as they ware come to their complyces or felowes thei dyd renewe their heresee and against their othe and all honestye besyde dyd obstinatly defende it What should we doe with suche men Paule sayeth Shunne thou an heretyke after that thou hast warned hym oÌ„es or twyse Their doctrine therfore is a certaine pertenax contention and bitter wysdome suche as Saynt Iames doeth descrybe Symon In the meane season they wyll neuer graunt thy conclusions to be true Ioiada This is that I saye thei be more styfe more obstacle thaÌ„ doeth be come any christeÌ„ men to be But thou that haste lyued most famylyarly w t them knowest wel and perfitly their foundacions where vpon they grounde them selues Symon No Anababtyst better Ioiada I wolde therfore my Symon that thou shouldest now dispute agaynst my conclusions as the Anababtistes are wonte to doe but without stomake and conteÌ„cion I wyll endeuoure my selfe to corroborate and streingthen them with holy scripures and to proue that they be true Sym. Be it as thou saiest For I desire to be taughte Thou shalte haue me also obediente so that I may vnderstande and perceiue y t thy doctrine and teachyng is true ⧠The third treatie or dialoge How that the spirite which repugneth agaynst the spirite that speaketh in the scriptures is not from the father of truth but from the father of lyes the deuels Symon Fyrste and formost I dooe meruell what moueth the to put this conclusioÌ„ where as after myne oppynion and iudgmeÌ„t it is no nede therof Ioiada But it semeth vnto me to be verye necessarye For manie of the Anababtistes doe boaste I can not tel what spirite and father agaynste the manyfest scriptures For whan they perceiue them selues to bee ouer comed with holye scriptures and so holden in that they can by no waye escape by and by they crye oute sayeng that the spiritee teacheth them an other thyng that is to saye eyther to holde theyr peace or to speake forthe some tryflyng matter â–ª and that they bee neyther subiecte ne bound to the litterall sense or letter In the which thyng they dooe no lesse erre than the doctoures of the bysshope of Rome which in matters of fayth wyll
not admyt the scripture to be iudge but referre al thynges to theyr interpretation and spiritee Is not this an hygh blasphemie that a sinnefull man shoulde presume to sete hym selfe iudge ouer the word and wyl of god asthough he ought not to bee obedient vnto it excepte he were moued with his owne spiritee and mocion to reiecte or receiue it I harde ones a papiste doctour openly in a disputaciō saie that we whiche teache the gospell dooe teache the truthe and dyd alowe our teachynge veary well but that he coulde not nor durste subscribe vnto it exrepte our teachynge were adprobated and alowed by the bisshoppe of Rome Beholde my Symon what abhominacion is this that a mortall man shulde take vpon hym to adprobate alowe the diuine and heauenly veritee and set hym selfe iudge ouer god Therfore haue I put this conclusion in the forefront because that the Anababtistes doe for y ◠moste parte boast and aduaunce their spirite vnder such pretence deceiuyng the simple and rude people Symon Doeth not Paule teache this that the letter doeth kylle and the spirit viuifieth or doeth quieken ii Corin. iii And Christe doeth saie Ioan. xiiii The spirite shall teache you all truthe It is spoken by the lorde also Hieremy xxxi Euery man shall teache no more his neyghbour saiyng knowe thou the lorde but all shall knowe hym from the lowest to the hyghest Finally Iohn dooeth saie It is no neede that euery man dooe teache you but as the vnction teacheth you of all thinges whiche is true and is no lye What canst thou saye agaynst so manyfeste scriptures Ioiada To the woordes of Paule I aunsweare thus That Paul speaketh there of the lawe whyche kylleth vs as he dooeth declare more apertly in the .vii. chap. to the Romains And by the spirit he vnderstondeth faith and the consolacion or comforte of the gospell That it is so the texte of the whole chapter dooeth testifie Therefore this place helpeth nothyng your errour For whan we speake of the woorde of god we dooe not vnderstonde the bare and deade letter or voyde sonnde of it but the word well and truely vnderstonded and as it is in veary dede And as for that that Chryste dooeth promesse a spyrite vnto his dysciples teachynge them all thynges wee dooe admytte and beleue it But that spyrite can not bee contrarye to Chryste nor teacheth any other thyng than Chryst hath taught Therfore doeth he adde by and by teachyng you what so euer I haue saied vnto you What dooe these thynges perteyne to the spirite of the Anababtistes whiche teacheth contrary thynges to the spirite of Christe The prophecies of Ioel and Hieremye are vnderstonded of that same spirite that Christe dooeth bothe promesse and geue to his disciples as it is euidently sene in the seconde chapiter of the Actes and the eyght to the Hebrues Iohn in his epistell whan he speaketh of the vnctyon dooeth playnely expounde hym selfe saiynge I haue written vnto you that ye bee not deceyued or that ye dooe not suffer your selues to be brought in to errour whyche thyng will then come to passe if ye dooe stedfastely abyde in the doctrine of the spirite whiche ye haue harde at the begynnynge and swarue not at all from it The holy ghoste is the spirite of truthe which canne neither lye nor repugne against hym selfe beyng all waies constaunte vnchaungeable euery where lyke vnto hym selfe Now no man can denaye but that the same euerlastyng vnchaungeable and holy spirite hath inspyred the holy scriptures in to holy mens hertes and myndes Whereby it foloweth necessarily that the same spirite which speaketh agaynste the meanyng of the spirite that dooeth speake and expresse hym selfe in the diuine scriptures is not of god but rather an humaine mayne affection whyche if it bee styffe maie bee deseruyngly called a deauelysshe spyryte as Chryste dooeth proue agaynste the Iues. Iohn viii Or canst thou thynke in thy mynde that spirite to bee good whiche contemneth the cleare manyfeste pure and holy scriptures and when by them he is conuicted of errour doeth boste an other spirite whiche shoulde teache cleane cōtrary thinges Is not this to despise y ◠spirite of y ◠scriptures and to repugne against hym As though our spirit meaneth truely and the spirit of the scriptures most falsely Where haue the Anababtistes learned to set their spirit against y ◠scriptures yea and preferre hym to the holy worde of god Symon But who hath geuen you this libertee to iudge al thynges after the litterall sence or letter Ioiada That we dooe not as thou doest interprete the letter But we saie that the worde of god conteined in the scriptures of the Bible is a touche stone wherby spirites are tried For what spirite so euer doeth agree with the scriptures is of god the father of truthe And agayne what spirite so euer is contrary to the holy scriptures is of the dyuelle the father of lyes Seyng therfore that the spyrite of the Anababtistes wil not bee ruled by the holy scriptures but preferreth hym selfe to the woorde of god callynge by crafte the woorde of god a bare letterre yea and sette set him selfe iudge ouer it he cānot be of god For if he were of god he would come to light and speake that same thyng that the holy ghost doeth speake in al the holy scriptures But now sith y t he doeth not depende of the scriptures but will be at his own lybertie it is a token that it is a craft and subtiltie of the deuell whiche doeth alwayes scatter repugne against god Sy. Thou speakest these thynges mightily and stronglye but withoute the word of god And this is your familier custome to speake many thinges without scriptures As touching the spirite what he techeth I haue brought and alledged places and testimonies oute of the scriptures But that the spirit ought to be tried by scriptures or rather mācipated and bounde vnto them and not be at his own libertie it is thy parte for to proue Or peraduenture thou dost prefer the creature vnto the creatour Ioi What and yf I should say also My spirite hath taught me this thyng What couldest thou do or say vnto me Sym. But that is not to aunswere Ioi Nor ye do not answere sufficiently when ye bost your spirite without or agaynst the scriptures But in this thīg we do learne that whan it pleaseth you ye vse the scriptures agayne whan ye see to be expede ent ye boaste aud aduance your spirit Whan I affirme that the spirite must be tried by the scriptures I doe not mancipate nor subdue the creatour vnto y ◠creature but I will that the thynge whiche is vncertaine be tryed proued by y t which is certaine and that any spirit be tried by the holy spirit of god that is to saie by the scriptures whether he agreeth with hym self or not And if he be like euery where vnto him self to be receiued if not to be refused
reiected as false deceitful But whan ye speake of the spirite ye doe vnderstond a bare creature For your spirit is not the holy ghost but a carnall affection Sy. Ye dooe yet without any scriptures of the Bible enhaunce and magnifie the letter Io. Not so but rather we here ground ourselues bothe vpon y e scriptures of god and vpon examples Sy. Shew therfore y t the truthe muste be tryed by the scriptures not rather w t a fre spirit without scriptures Io. By thy wordes doe I perceine what thinge doeth begile you that is y t ye do seuer these .ii. thinges beyng vnited inuisebly knitted together y t is to saie the spirite the scriptures which can nor ought to be separated asunder the one from y e other For whē we name y e scriptures we doe vnderstande y e expressed worde of y t spirit For as y e voice or sound of y e worde can in no wise be separated from y e lyuely breth of y e liuing creature So y e scriptures can not be diuided from y e spirit y t inspireth thē for y e scripture is y e expressed wil of god but now wil I bryng y e testimonies places w t thou requirest our lord Iesu Christ vnto whom y e heuēly father did geue witnes from heuen who hath receiued the holy ghost after no measure did not despise y e sciptures in so muche that he dyd corroborate all his saiynges by them onely and did commaund that the Iewes should trye both his woordes and factes by the scriptures Ihon. v. and Luke xvi He biddeth them to lyfte vp their eyes to Moyses the prophetes and not to apparaunte spirites He reprouyng also the Saduceis did shewe that this was the cause of their errour be cause that they were ignoraunt in scriptures or neglected them Mark .xii. The Apostles as we may vnderstand by the booke of the Actes did receiue abundātly in the beginyng the holy gost that by a sertaine visible tokē And yet not withstandyng did thei not therfore forsake or contēne y e scriptures nor boste their spirite against thē But rather did proue strengthen all their sermons with the worde of god preachyng nothyng els but the pure and playne scriptures These thynges are euydently proued by the epistels of Peter Iohn doeth plainely shewe and teache that the spirites owght to be tried whether thei bee of god or not .i. Io. iiii Wherby it is euydent enowgh that spirites owght to be tried and that thei be not so free as the Anahabtistes will haue them And how thei muste bee proued it is manifestly declared in y t place Paule whiche was rauisshed in to the thyrde heauen and dyd learne his gospel of Iesu Christ beyng hym selfe the chosen vessel of god full of the holy ghost and heauenly wisedome neuer the lesse before the kyng Agrippa he doeth testify that he dyd teache nothyng beside Moises and the prophetes Act. xxvi In the epistell to the Galathians y e first chapter he saieth thus if I or an angel of heauen shulde preach vnto you any other thīg then ye haue harde let it be anathema or acursed He also warnyng and teachyng Tymothe that be shoulde beware of false and erroneous doctrines dyd directe and sende hym to the redyng of scriptures But reade thou the iii. chapiter of the seconde epistell to Tymothe and it shall appere what we owght to iudge and thynke of the Anababtistes secte what of the spirite and of the scriptures Sy. That place is knowen well enowghe and I am almost persuaded But this vexed my mynde that Paule saieth that a spirituall man iudgeth all thynges but he is iudged of no body Ioiada I longe to knowe of the of what spirite Paule doeth speake there Symon But I haue leauer to heare it of the Ioiada Considre the woordes y t go before For he saieth thus We haue not receiued the spirit of the world but the spirit whiche is of god that we may know what thynges haue ben geuen vnto vs by Chryst Symon But to what purpose did Paul speke here of the holy ghost Ioiada I aske of the wheather y t same selfe spirite dyd not inspyre the scriptures Symon Truely that same selfe spirite Ioiada Seyng therfore that it is all one and bothe the same spirite that Paule speaketh of here and that whiche speaketh in the scriptures haue I not proued that Paule by a spirituall man did not vnderstond hym which boasteth I can not tell what spirite despisyng in the meane season the scriptures but suche a spirituall man as is and will be ruled and gouerned by the holy ghost that waie that he sheweth and expresseth hym selfe in the holy scriptures He therfore that striueth againste the holy scripture and inspiracyon of the holy ghost can not bee that spirituall man whome Paule doeth speke of Now if he be not spirituall he can not iudge but he muste be iudged The Anababtistes therfore can iudge nothyng but ought to bee iudged and tryed by the worde of god Hathe not here the spirite of the Anababtistes lost bothe his win ges But I do remembre other ii places whiche dooe vtterly stoppe the mouthes of the Catababtistes The first is in the .x. chapiter of the Actes touchyng Cornelius the centurion which although he was elected by god yet not withstandyng beyng so tawght by the angell did sende messangers to fetche Peter y t he migh heare by hym the preachīg of our sauiour Iesu christ If that the spirite should disanulle and abolisshe the scriptures it shulde folow y t this outwarde preachyng and such like thinges wer done in vaine The other is in the .xvi. chapiter concernyng the Thessaloniens whiche after that thei had harde the preachyng of Paule dyd daily seke and serche the scriptures to knowe wheather Paule dyd teache true or not Which thing thei wolde not haue done if the spirites shoulde not be tried by the scriptures wherefore what so euer the Anababtistes dooe teache concernyng this thynge is false and erroneous and not vnlike vnto the errour of Montanus Sym. What monstruous thyng is y t Ioiada This Montanus about .xiii. hundred yeres a go was a great heretike who did almost speake of the spirite as the Anababtistes dooe For thei do cal in again the old abolisshed errours as it shall appere hereafter Sym. Go forth I praie y e and let vs discusse the argumentes of the second conclusion For I can not beleue that none of the saynttes whiche thyng thou doest affirme stifly did thruste them selues into the office of common preachers excepte thei were called What other thyng is this but as the bisshop of Rome hath done in times paste to hyde the truthe frome the commons that none saue onely thei that are learned dare speake and talke of it Where as not withstandynge god did manifest him self to the littell ones and not to the wise Mathew xi Ioiada I will doe it
without scriptures Ioiada I wyll proue all that I haue saied by the worde of god A littell afore that Chryste did departe from his apostels he did sende them vnto the worlde to preache the gospel vnto all cretures but before y t thei shoulde take in honde this offyce they shulde tary a while in Nierusalem till they were endued with grace frome aboue For he dyd promise vnto them to sende the promised spirit and comfort our of the father vpon them And after that thei had ones receiued the holy ghost with it thei did receiue the knowlage of all sciences speches tongues Luc. xxiiii Act. ii whan Moises dyd draw backe and did bryng many excuses knowledgyng hym selfe to bee without vtterance vneloquent chyldisshe and vnmete for that offyce that god woulde haue sent hym to the lord did promise that he would be in his mouth as he dyd also promise to his apostelles suche mouth and wisedome that no man shoulde bee able to resyste agaynste it Mathew .x. Paule writynge to Tymothe and Titus concernyng the election of bysshoppes requireth such one as is apte to teache able to exhorte with wholsome doctrine whyche can reuycte and confounde them that resyste and withsaie the truthe .i. Timothe iii. Titus .i. There Paule doeth forbydde that none of them whyche were newly conuerted shoulde be admitted to the office of a preacher Netherto haue I brought places and testimonies out of the scriptures touchyng the learnyng that ought to be in an ouerseer or bysshop Now shall we heare what the scriptures doe testifie and witnesse concernyng the miracles of them that are sent We dooe therfore alleage here the wonders that Moyses did shewe in Egypte and other innnmerable signes and tokens that bee written in the Actes the manifeste imposicion of handes and that thei dyd receiue the holy ghost visebly Moreouer that thei whiche be sent ought to be laufully elected and chosen by a common assent we dooe dryng the first chapiter of the Attes vpon the election of Mathias the vii and .xiii. of the Actes vpon the election of Steuen Paule and Barnabas The .xiii. chap. also of the Actes doeth manifestly shewe that Paule and Barnabas when thei had created thorow all the churches by a generall election priestes or seniours laiyng their handes vpon them and had made theyr praiers with fastyng did committe them vnto the lorde in whome thei had beleued Now thou seest my Symon that in y ◠times of the Apostels euery man dyd not rasshely aduaunce nor sette for the hym selfe to preache For if it hadde ben so what shoulde haue neaded any election and imposicion of handes But election was made after praiers fastyng The same is also written in the epistell to Titus Sy. What if thou fyndest all such thynges among the Anababtistes Io. Not y ◠lesse iote of al y ◠aboue rehersed thīges ergo thei are not sēt by god but sēsualitee and ipmpudent boldenesse dyd impell moue them For what myracles doe thei except these are to be called miracles that they with their pernicious doctrine dooe brynge men out of their right and godly minde in to starke madnesse or that thei make the gammons and legges of bakon hangynge in the larders of the symple and poore people inuisible What learnynge should we loke for where rudenes and as thei do speake themselues simplicitee is taken for hyghe rudicion I dooe passe ouer here many of them whiche can scarcely reade yea and what wyll ye saie of them y ◠can reade no maner of thyng Are not these y ◠neophites by y ◠neophites I meane not onely them that are newly conuerted but such as doe lacke learnyng that Paule do reiecte But thei promote them that by all their lyues tyme did neuer reade the Bybles hauyng onely in readinesse certaine sentences not vnderstonded which beyng either plucked out of al partes of scripture or stolen or els borowed of their gydes leaders thei dooe wrethe wrast turne to contencion w t all maledicence reuilyng And so stondyng among the simple people haue alwais in their tonges endes y ◠father of heauen and the spirite What name my Symon maie conueniently be geuen vnto them I maie not call them apostels for thei are not sent by god Again thei do not preache wher nothīn hath ben yet preached of god but where y ◠people hath ben a long season with the great labour of the true and faithfull ministers taught the waie of truthe there doe thei breake in destroiyng peruertyng as a storme or tempest stirryng vp all thinges makyng the commons so perplexed and doubtfull that thei know neither ende nor begynnyng If any man shoulde call them prophetes and expositours of the scriptures it were none other thyng but to call a filthy swine an excellent cunning Musician For thei are ignorant in al maner of tongues in so muche that thei doe contemne them being content with y ◠vulgare tongue onely If thou callest thē doctours they know nothynge lesse than the right waie and trade of teachyng Besides that thei want the truthe whiche is chiefly required in a teacher But paraduenture thei will be called bishops and sheapherdes Why do y ◠lacke then al suche excellent giftes as Paule requireth in a teacher or bishop In so much that thei be vnlearned striuers contencious and rude neophites Briefly they haue nothyng that perteine to y ◠office of a teacher Wherby any man maie perceiue that the Anababtistes are suche as doe send them selues beyng perplexed sedicious debatefull ambitious heretykes Sy. Thei be bothe chosen and sent Ioi By whome Sy. By their church Moreouer one brother dooeth lai his hand vpō y ◠other geuing hym ful power autoritee Io. This sendyng election maketh me to remēbre y ◠bishop of Rome for after that the bisshop of Rome dyd ones get pourchasse vnto hym selfe thorowgh disobedience tirannie and pernicious crafte suche great power by and by dyd he promote to bisshoprykes euery mule keper bawdes and blody souldyours ▪ But who did teache them to seuer and diuide the churche beynge vnited and glued with faithe and charitee seynge that there is but one God one faythe one babtyme and one churche Who hathe sent the authours of this secte to make and congregate a new churche Truely amulacion enuy strife contencion auaryce ambicion and stiffe pertinacy I could wel and sufficiently proue all these thynges except I shoulde here wittyngly spare some people Their Churche therfore is not the Churche of God but a certayne secte and congregacion of styffenecked and disobedient people among whom there is no more iust election then is in the company of rebelles traytours whiche forsakyng their owne prince or gouernour doo retchely without aduisement chuse thys man or that man to be their Capitayne But let vs graunt that it is a Church yet not withstandyng they erre in election whiche is not vsed among them