Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	john_n	spirit_n	worship_v	7,067	5	9.7470	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A84130	Pneumatologia: or, A treatise of the Holy Ghost. In which, the God-head of the third person of the Trinitie is strongly asserted by Scripture-arguments. And defended against the sophisticall subtleties of John Bidle. / By Mr. Nicolas Estwick, B.D. somtime fellow of Christ-Colledg in Cambridg, and now pastor of Warkton in the countie of Northampton.	Estwick, Nicolas.; Cranford, James, d. 1657.	1648 (1648)	Wing E3361; Thomason E446_14; ESTC R201957	88,825	111

Lord yet are there not three Lords but one Lord saith the Athanasian Creed I am the Lord and there is none else there is no God besides mee and it shall bee known from East to West that there is none besides mee and there is none else Isa 45. 5 6. ARGUMENT 3. 3 Argum. of M. Bidle Hee that speaketh not of himself is not God The holy Spirit speaketh not of himself Ergò The Minor is clear from John 16. 13. The Major is proved thus God speaketh of himself therefore if there bee any one that speaketh not of himself hee is not God The antecedent is of it self apparant for God is the primarie Author of whatsoever hee doth but should hee not speak of himself hee must speak from another and so not bee the primarie but secondarie author of his speech which is absurd if at least that may bee called absurd which is impossible The consequence is undeniable For further confirmation of this Argument it is to bee observed that to speak or to do any thing not if himself according to the ordinarie phrase of Scripture is to speak or do by the shewing teaching commanding authorising or enabling of another and consequently incompatible with the supreme and self-sufficient Majestie of God Vid. John 5. 19 20 30. ch 7. v. 15 16 17 18 28. ch 8. v. 28. 42. ch 11. v. 50 51. ch 12. v. 49. 50. ch 14. v. 10 24. ch 15. 4. ch 18. 34. Luke 12. 56 57. ch 21. 30. 2 Cor. 3. 5. ANSWER Answ Hee that speaketh not of himself say you is not God I denie this your Major Proposition for though in a sense the Spirit of God speaketh not of himself yet is hee truly and properly God nor will I content my self with a bare denial of it which is enough for an Answerer but I will give you the reason hereof nor need I go far for a proof this Verse in John alledged by you might have taught you this truth for the person here is called by an excellencie the Spirit of truth and which lead's the Apostles and the Faithful into all truth the heavenly truth of eternal salvation This leading into truth is all one for substance with that translation of others shall teach you all truth And that which is in the Hebrew Psal 86. 11. lead mee thy way 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Septuag render it with the same word which the Evangelist useth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now this is properly a work of the great God and that which was long before fore-told They shall bee all taught of God John 5. 45. Can any thing bee more plainly spoken It is not denied but one man is said to bee a teacher of others Matth. 28. Go and teach all Nations And this is don two waies principally if not onely vel proponendo auxilia Aq. 1. 117. q. either by proposing to scholars general helps whereby the scholar is led as it were by the hand to the knowledg of unknown truths as by general rules sensible examples lively similitudes and such like to help the understanding or else by strengthning the understanding of the learner by shewing him how hee should deduce conclusions from principles but when a creature hath don all that hee can to the utmost of his power hee cannot infuse light into his scholars and elevate their minds to apprehend divine truth Let the Sun shine never so bright yet a blind man cannot see it and wee are taught to call no man Master on earth Mat. 23. So God alone is the fountain of illumination hee sitteth in his chair in heaven who teacheth our hearts on earth Object Besides if wee consider the condition of the Apostles to speak onely of them though they bee not the onely persons on whom that promise run's they were to bee dispest over all the known Regions of the world and if so how should a creature bee with them all as you do hold the holy Ghost to bee and assist all their mouths and pens infallibly in every place Sol. Surely to do so require's not onely celeritie but ubiquitie which is a propertie of the true God but incompatible to the condition of a creature which is finite as in essence so likewise in place and operation Nor will that shift serve the turn which is used by this Author in answer as hee saith to that grand Objection touching the Omnipresence of the holy Ghost by comparing this with the Parable of the Sower where Satan is said to snatch the Word of the hearts of hearers in ten thousand places at once for this is fallacia non parium The holy Ghost which dwell's in all the godly and leadeth them into all truth is one individual Spirit but it neither is nor possibly can bee one individual Devil which acteth his wickedness in all the wicked ones at once for there are millions of them dispersed every where in this lower Region of the world full of malice and policie to do mischief and every one of them is a Satan Wee read of the Devil and his Angels but you do not read of the holy Ghost and his Angels though I grant they are his Angels as creäted and commanded by him but not so as the Devil's Angels are his as a superior creature having rule over fellow-creatures I will once again propound your Major Hee that speaketh not of himself is not God This Proposition is not universally true I grant in this sense it is true hee that speaketh not of himself but what hee learn's by revelation and in time and what hee did not know from all eternitie hee is not God but such a kinde of hearing from another hath no place in the holy Ghost and therefore the Proposition if it bee taken generally is denied and the reason of my denying it is this because it is a propertie of the Father as to bee of and from himself the Fountain and the Principle as Divines do usually speak though not properly the cause of the Son of God and of the holy Ghost for then they should bee effects which sound 's harshly the Father is I say of himself and communicate's the Essence and the essential properties to the Son and both Father and Son to the holy Ghost who is eternal infinite omnipotent and omnipresent Our learned Junius hath observed a three-fold consideration of a Person one common in essence as the Person is God the second consideration as it is singular and absolute in Person as saith hee it subsist's in the unitie of the Essence the third is relative in the distinction and order of one Person to another contra Bellar. Controv. 2. l. 1. Praefat. let the Learned judg of these the last is to my purpose Now as the Persons do differ in the manner and order of subsisting so likewise though the outward action bee the same and common to all the Persons yet in the manner of working wee must conceive a difference Give mee leave to clear this

of your Argument and then will particularly applie it Somtimes the Superior heareth the Inferior thus God is frequently said to hear the praiers of his servants made in faith Somtimes the Inferior hear's the Superior and that is don many waies not onely by his bodily ears but by understanding what formerly was not known or when the judgment is more perfectly informed in a point before not fully known or beleeving what till that voice came was not beleeved or hearkning to the counsell or obeying the will and pleasure of God Somtimes an equall hear's an equall as common experience shew's If wee speak of the first acceptation God's hearing us and answering of us according to the tenor of our praiers then I appeal to your judgment and you must needs give sentence against your self that in this sense your Major is false If you speak of hearing in the second sense I grant your Major is true because so to hear argueth ignorance in whole or in part forgetfulness dulness slackness or plain neglect if not contempt of dutie which wee do all confess are inconsistent with the infinite knowledg and transcendent excellencie of the great God If you take it in the third sense an equal hearing an equal then I denie your Major for God the holy Ghost which heareth from God the Son is equal to him Advers The Minor say you is proved John 16. 13. Answ My answer is by advising that the words of the text may bee well observed the words run not thus Whatsoever the Spirit knoweth hee will speak but whatsoever hee heareth and this is likewise spoken of Christ John 8. 26. and 15. 16. Obj. This is not to bee understood as if the holy Ghost did hear any thing corporally and thus is hearing properly taken and for such a hearing I suppose you will not contend Sol. Nor secondly is it to bee taken of hearing viz. by revelation by which hearing hee should learn that which formerly hee knew not It 's indeed spoken that hee was that hee is and that hee shall bee if it had been onely said hee was one might have conceived that now hee is not If it had been said hee is onely it might have been thought that hee had not been alwaies If it had been onely said hee shall bee it might bee thought hee is not now Time past present and to come are asscribed to God yet not as to men to denote a beginning continuance and end of time for actions are said to have been which now are not and that they shall bee which now have no existence at all but when they are spoken of God there is no limitation of time at all God so hath been that hee is and shall bee hee shall bee yet so that hee is and hath been and this is to bee applied likewise to the hearing of the holy Ghost Hee hath alwaies heard and hee doth hear And in the future time it 's said in this place hee shall hear This hearing saith S. Austin Tractat. 99. in Joan. is everlasting Hee hath known hee doth know and hee will know His hearing is his knowing and his knowing is his beeing hee hath heard from him hee doth hear from him and hee will hear from him from whom hee proceed's so Austin And hee cal's the opening of this text John 16. arduam nimis arduam quaestionem This bee spoken to prevent that scruple in that it is said Hee shall hear Som of ours clear the words thus Whatsoever the holy Ghost shall hear that shall hee speak which import's thus much those things which the Father will have revealed to us those things and no other will hee reveal to us the truths which the Spirit shall reveal to us are truths received from God the Father the Spirit feign's nothing hee alter's nothing hee pervert's nothing The paraphrase of the text in the former Argument will dispell the foggie mists of this reason Advers The Major saith hee is proved thus Hee that is taught is not God Hee that heareth from another what hee shall speak is taught The Major is proved Esa 40. 13 14. Answ 1 To this I answer if you had not been infatuated you would have omitted that text in Esay for it directly overthroweth your assertion and expresly teacheth us that none have taught the Spirit of God But I answer Secondly hee that is taught properly that is learn's what hee formerly knew not is not God I readily assent for God's knowledg is infinite and cannot bee increased But how can you prove that the holy Ghost is taught by comparing say you John 8. 26 28 together Christ is taught by hearing This is but a very weak bul-rush it hath no strength at all in it This must needs bee your consequence in som places of Scripture and not onely so but even in common reason hee that heareth is taught therefore must it needs bee so taken John 16. 13. Is not this a wild inference That Scripture John 8. 26 28. speaketh not of the holy Ghost but expresly of Christ and then it must bee spoken of him either as God or Mediator man If in the former way then the text furthereth not but marreth your Argument if in the later then it is unfitly alledged for albeit a creäted substance by hearing another may properly bee taught yet far bee it from us to conceive that the Creätor the supreme God can learn what hee knew not Advers But saith hee let a man turn himself every way yet shall hee never bee able to make it out to a wise man that any can hear from another what hee will speak who is the prime Author of his speech Answ Well I see M. Bidle is a wise man in his own eies and all Christian men in the world besides himself and a handful of seduced ones are no better then fools but if hee had well perpended that text quoted by himself out of Esa 40. 13 14 15. hee would not have concluded the great God the three sacred Persons which are one Almightie God within the shallow compass of his brains I perceive hee is alwaies wrapped in the briars and cannot possibly extricate himself because hee apprehendeth not the meaning of that common distinction of God the holy Ghost as God for in this respect hee hath infinite knowledg of himself and of God the holy Ghost as hee is the holy Ghost for so doth hee receive knowledg and wisdom from God the Father and God the Son yet I pray let this bee remembred so as hee was never ignorant and life yet so as hee never wanted life and power yet so as hee was never weak because these persons communicating essence to the holy Ghost did communicate life power and knowledg So that the holy Ghost hath knowledg not by learning but by proceeding and all the creatures which hear and are taught they are taught by the holy Ghost And whereas hee illustrate's as hee think's his Assertion by a comparison taken from

finde that the translation is not true for the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ver 3. is construed with an Accusative case and with a Dative ver 4. and so it is to bee translated to bely and counterfeit the holy Ghost which is to bear us in hand that thou laidest down the money at the motion of the holy Ghost herein thou hast not lied to men but to God Answ The Adversarie would perswade the Reader that hee by his observation of the text had found out a fault in our common translations whereof the Authors out of their ignorance or inadvertencie took no notice if so hee think's hee is utterly mistaken for all translators ancient and of later days had the text before their eyes and saw the difference which is here noted by this Author and yet did purposely translate the words thou hast lied to the holy Ghost as holding forth the genuine meaning of the Spirit of God som excepted which yet for the point of controversie in hand proved out of this very Scripture are professed Adversaries to you Beza after hee had rendred the words to deceive or mock i. e. endeavor to deceive the holy Ghost I might add what others say hee retract's and go's in the steps of common translators Why I might say from others It 's not unusual amongst the Grecians to understand a preposition which is not expressed Hee saith because the 4th ver where the Dative case is used is an explication of the 3d. ver Besides the Hebrews do somtimes confound these whence these expressions benedico te evangelizo te which the Grecians derived from the Hebrews and the Latine Authors from the Grecians Besides in one manuscript I found the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and so have the Syrian and Arabian Interpreters read it Lastly because this interpretation which is followed by Erasmus to say they counterfeited the holy Ghost seem's to mee not to bee full They were indeed notorious hypocrits but Peter by the sequele accuseth them of a far higher crime that when as by the motion of the Spirit they had sold a parcel of ground and consecrated it to the Church they afterward kept back a part thereof as if in that case they had not to deal with God but with men which could not discover this their sacriledg and so they are in this regard said to tempt the Spirit of God Further were it granted that your translation were sound and that the words ought to bee so interpreted as you have don this neither hinder's us nor further's you none ever dreamed by the common translation to correct the meaning of the text that they might have an Argument thence to confute the Adversaries of the holy Ghost hee needeth not our lie to defend his cause But the strength of the Argument is not from the words singly taken ver 3. but from them and the explication of them in the fourth and ninth verses you counterfeit the holy Ghost to bee the Author of this fact and this is expounded to bee a lying to God viz. to God the holy Ghost whom you have counterfeited hee speaking in us and discovering this hypocrisie of your heart which you litle dreamed off And your exposition of the words as they stand in your Book is of that nature that albeit I have perpended it as exactly as I can yet do I conceive nothing in it but I may readily subscribe to it I am sure it nothing crosseth the Argument Thus much for the first Argument Argum. 2 Maj. Hee to whom religious worship is truly exhibited is God Min. The holy Ghost is hee to whom religious worship is exhibited Concl. Ergò The Major is not denied by the Adversarie and is evident of it self and strange it is to mee that any learned men which do acknowledge the Deitie of the holy Ghost should avouch as they do that there is neither precept to worship him nor any clear example in the Word that hee was worshipped 'T is a certain rule the sacred Persons of the Trinitie which are undivided in nature must bee likewise undivided in worship for any one to say the holy Ghost is God and with the same breath to profess their doubting whether hee is to bee worshipped is to speak contradictions and 't is all one as to acknowledg a King and to deny him honor and this is to make him a titular King and in truth no King at all The Minor is proved thus the holy Angels of God do worship him they worshipped the Lord of hosts Esa 6. 3. Holy holy holy is the Lord of hosts Heb. 1. 6. Whether the Prophet Esay understood this mysterie or not 't is not material to the point in hand nor whether their thrice chanting out holy implied the sacred Trinitie Yet why might not that bee intended But the Angels beeing intellectual substances worshipped they knew what and beeing confirmed in holiness they onely worshipped a fit object of worship and had they or sinful men worshipped the highest creature with religious adoration would not hee as the Angel in the revelation have rejected it and said See you do it not I am your fellow-servant but the Angels worshipped the holy Ghost I prove the blessed Apostle and irrefragable Interpreter inform's us that the Lord of hosts who put words into the mouth of Esay was the holy Ghost Act. 28. 25. Well said the holy Ghost by Esaiah the Prophet and as the Son of God is directly prayed unto Lord Jesus said Stephen that blessed martyr receive my Spirit Acts 7. Lord Jesus com quickly Apocal. 22. So is likewise the holy Spirit Awake thou North-winde and com thou South blow upon my garden that the Spices thereof may flow out O blessed Spirit breathe into my heart that by the love of God and my neighbor it may send forth a sweet savor Cant. 4. 16. The blessed Spirit of God is compared to the winde that as the winde blow's where it list's so doth the Spirit of God blow where hee will regenerat's whom hee pleaseth John 3. 8. And to this intent it is that S. John prayeth grace and peace not onely from God the Father and from Jesus Christ but also from the seven Spirits Apocal. 1. 4. The Spirit is but one in nature but it is said to bee seven that is manifold in regard of the distribution of many gifts which are from the Spirit and more plainly 2 Corinth 13. 13. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the holy Ghost bee with you all And this Argument is asserted by Justin Martyr as I have shewed in answer to your thirteenth Argument and by Clemens Alexandrinus at the end l. 3. Paedag. used in the ancient Liturgies and practised by the reformed Churches Sancta Trinitas miserere O holy Trinitie have mercie To these I may add this consideration that wee are the Temples of the holy Ghost It 's God onely that hath a Temple and