at that tyme be set ouer them in that estate 16. They still denied the Maior gaue this reason therof because the vnbeleeuers might heare the ministerie of the Church Wee graunted that the vnbeleeuers might heare the ministerie of the Church but from hence it followeth not that they had interest in the ministerie before they were members of the Church It is one thing to heare the ministerie of the Church an other thing to be a member of the Church 17. Then they brought Pauls example to proue that a ministerie might be set ouer infidells because he was said to be the teacher of the Gentiles all the Apostles willed to goe and teach all nations To this it was answered that Paul stood no minister neither tooke gouernment or chardge ouer anie heathen which were not called to the faith ioyned to the Church still putting difference betwixt teaching the heathen the truth exercising a ministerie ouer them 18. They alledged 1 Pet. 1. that the Apostle there tooke chardge care ouer strangers Yt was answered that those strangers were Iewes called to the faith dispersed through manie regions as the next verse 1 Pet. 1.2 Iames 1. sheweth 19. Paul wrote himself a father of the Corinths though ye haue manie teachers yet haue ye but one father Yt was still answered that those Corinthians were beleeuers Argument 3. There can be no communion betvvixt the beleeuers vnbeleeuers therefore the infidells can haue no communion vvith the Church in the ministerie thereof or in anie spirituall action Being demaunded by them what we meant by communion we answered such cōmunion as is spoken of Act. 2.42 in doctrine in prayer in the sacraments in mutuall communication in all Christian duties how none were receaued to this communion before they were ioyned as members vnto the Church Argument 4. There can novv be no Pastor ouer anie people by the rules of Christi testamēt but vvhere a mutuall couenant is made betvveene the Pastor the people he bounde to teach guide gouerne them they againe to obey him in the Lord But the infidells haue made no such couenant vvith the Pastor Therfore c. 20. Do. Androes said the Pastor ought not to gouerne that he himself was a Pastor yet no guyde or gouernor of the flocke and that in the Church there were gouernors ouer the Pastors as Bishops We answered that the word Bishop or Ouerseer vvas a generall name cōmon to the Pastor teacher Elders vvhich name importeth gouernment care Phil. 1.1 Act. 20.28 21. Do. Androes here said that the vvord bishop was not common vnto either the Pastor teacher or Elders but vnto other higher gouernors We answered that vnto their ministerie the name of a bishop did not indeed accord but only vnto their Lord bishops desired some proofe of this their assertion out of the word of God 22. Vnto vvhich they answered that all their ministerie vvas by positiue lavves We then said that it must needs follow that all their religion vvorship was pollitick also that ministerie vvhich Christ hath not prescribed in his Testament is antichristian At lentgh after manie bitter reprochfull speaches against vs vve returned againe to our former discourse framed this Argument vnto the rest Argument 5. The people novv are to make choice proofe of their Paestor But thei vvithout the faith cannot make choice of theyr Pastor Therfore c. Here they said that this allowre other positions were fond vaine foolish this was all the answere vve could get of them Mr. Hutchinson at the breaking vp requyred me Henry Barrow to set downe some reasons whie I refused to ioine vnto their Church that the people present might be satisfied whervppon I set him downe vnder mine hand as followeth The reasons vvhie I Henry Barrow cannot ioine with the Church of England yeilded by me the 13. of the 4. Moneth 1. The people as they stand are not called orderly to the faith but stand mingled togeather in confusion 2. The ministerie set ouer them is not the true ministerie of the gospell which Christ hath appointed to his Church in his testament 3. The administration worship of this Church is not according to the word of God 4. The ecclesiasticall gouernment Courts officers Cannons are not according to the testament of Christ but new antichristian Vntill all these points be eyther approoued by the word of God or reformed I cannot consent to ioyne vnto this Church in this estate These things I witnesse subscribe H. Barrovv I Iohn Greenwood being demaunded by M r. Hutchinson whether I would set downe myne hād vnto this or ells yeild some other cause of my dislike refused to do either of both vntill he had prooued the Church of Rome to be the true Church of Christ as he had twise promised at neither of his commings would performe A breif answeare to certayne sclaunderous Articles vngodlie calumniations sparsed abrode by the BB s theire adherēts against diuerse faithfull true Christians her Maiesties loyall and louinge Subiectes to cullour theire owne vngodly tyrannicall dealing with them to bring them into hatred both with Prince and people Article 1. They hold that the Lords praier or anie sell prayer is blasphemy they neuer vse anie prayer for the Queene as supreame head vnder Christ of the Church of England Ansvveare WE hold that the Lords praier so commonly called is sacred Canonicall scripture cōteyning a most absolute perfect rule grownd worke wherby all faith full prayers ought to be framed gyuen by owr Sauyour Christ for the instruction and confirmatiō of his Disciples that theire prayers might be according to the will glory of God But that the very forme of words as they are in theis petitions were gyuē instituted as a sett stinted prayer or that owre Sauiour Christ his Apostles haue euer vsed yt in that maner we finde not in the scriptures where we see theire prayers according to theire present occasions c. set downe in other words no mention made of such prescript lymited saying of this as they requyre enioyne Moreouer if they were as ignorant what belongeth to true prayer or of the true vse of this forme for prayer as they seeme yet euen theyre owne practize in theire pulpyts Liturgies doth excuse vs thus far forth condemne them For her Maiestie we praye both publiquely pryuatly day night at all tymes places according to owre duties as becommeth vs and godwilling wyll not cease so to do whilst owre lyues shall last Article 2. That all set prayers or stinted prayers or read seruice are but meere bablinge in Gods sight plaine Idolatrie TO this we answeare that we are taught in the Scriptures That God is a Spirit wilbe worshipped in Spirit truth we finde further in the Script in owr selues That God gyveth to
Fleete Mr. Androvves Iohn Greenwood in the Fleete Mr. Hutchinsō Do Sarauea Daniell Studley in the Fleete M r. Grauet Walter Lane in the Fleete M r. Fissher Edmond Tomson in the gatehouse M r. Iudson Iohn Nicolas in the gatehouse Mr. Temple William Dodson in the gatehowse Mr. Allison Iohn Barrens in the gatehowse Do Blague Iohn Cranford in the gatehowse M r. Herd Richard vvheeler in the gatehowse Mr. Harvye Thomas Canadine in the gatehowse A brief answeare to such Articles as the Bishopps haue giuen out in our name vpon which articles their Priests were sent and injoyned to Confer with vs in the seuerall prisons wherin we are by them detayned HOw charitablie soeuer theis forged positions conningly cōtriued may seme to be framed in respect of the sclaunderous priuiledged pamphletts heretofore dispersed through the whole land by the enemies of Christ suppressors of all righteousnes to bring vs in contempt with all men yet if we consider the end more sereously vvay the present drift of theis BBs theire priests and new reconciled Reformists set a worke in this busines we shal finde they neuer went more craftely about the spilling of owre innocent bloud For they in theire secret consultations hauing collected theis articles haue allso togeather vvith them constituted commaunded certaine theire priests twise euery weeke during this Lent to offer vs priuate conference in way of examination or auriculer confession to fish farther cause of accusation vppon theis poincts vvhose testimonie verdict of suborned vvitnesses they think to frame to their bloudthirstie appetites vve in the meane tyme not suffred eyther to set downe owre ovvne positions neyther before equall vvytnesses to ansvver or discouer theire false allegations Wherfore vve thought it good being all close prysoners to relate vnto all men that desire the truth ovvre simple iudgments in theis doctrines vvherat they thus snarrle vve resting still most desirous of anie christian or equall conference before indifferēt vvitnesses set dovvne recorded if vve might obteine the same vppon the dispence of ovvre lyues yea the God of heauen knovveth hovv vvilling ready vve are to be instructed or corrected in anie thing vvherin vve err vvhen it shalbe shevved vs by the booke of God First then vnderstand that theis accusers affirme theis to be ovvre positions vvhich they haue framed of theire ovvne braine vvithout ovvre knovvledg much lesse cōsent Secondly they pronunce vs nevve sectories although vve hold no other thing in iudgment or practize more then Christ his Apostles haue taught vs in the Scriptures and cōfirmed by theire examples deathes And vvhether Christs Testament in theis mens antichristian lavves ordinances fetched from Rome or deuised by themselues be novv to be holden nevve doctrines let all men consider Thirdly they call vs Recusants hauing neither forsaken the fellovvship of the true Church or least member of Christ that vvalketh in the Communion of the faith submytting himself to be guyded by Christs lavves ordinances nor refused anie truth approued vnto vs. Only vve according to the Commandment of God haue forsakē all sprirituall fellovvship vvith theire false Church as also the inuetions popery yea all the execrable marchandize of that ministery confused Babell euen that vvorld of vvickednes Out of vvhich the Lord dravve fourth all his elected 1. That it is not lavvful to vse the Lords prayer publiquely in the Church for a set forme of prayer THe Lords prayers vve take to be those prayers vvhich himself offred to his father in his ovvne person as he vvas man vppō earthe according to his present occasions the will of his father poured fourth The forme of prayer gyuen to his Disciples to all posterities by the record of the Euangelists we hold acknowledg most holy Canonicall scripture to be vsed of all Churches in that vse and to that end for which owre Sauioure gaue it Namely to be the perfect patterne rule of all owre prayers vvhether deprecations supplications thanksgyuing c. Not that we are bounde to the very vvords saying ouer or asking all things therin conteined euery tyme we pray nether that the words red or sayd ouer by rote can be called a prayer seing all prayer must proceede of Gods spyrit from owr owne harts according to owre present necessities So that where he calleth it the Lords prayer he falsefieth the text seing Christ neuer did or could vse it as his owne prayer For there is petition made for remission of synnes he neuer trespassing And where he saith we hold it vnlawfull to be vsed publiquelye in the Church for a fet forme of prayer he sclaundereth vs vve graunt it to be the absolute perfect only forme of all true prayers If anie demaund further vvhether vve may vse the vvords therof eyther wholy as they are set downe or anie sentence of them in prayers we answer by explication or application tending to edifying expressing owre present estate vve may The same questions may be demaunded of the prayers mentioned in the Psalmes dyuerse other scriptures to which vve aunswere that we restraine no man of the vse of anie parcell or sentence of Scripture rightly applyed Yet herevppon is not iustified eyther theire fyue tymes saying ouer of theire Pater Noster in theire English morrow masses nor yet theire superstitious repetition of theis words in the conclusions of theire prayers after or before theire sermons vvhen as they say they knowe not vvhat to aske and therfore pray as Christ hath taught them by repeting these vvords vvhich thei call the Lords prayer where in thei lye 2. That all sett stinted prayers are meere babling in the sight of the Lord and not to be vsed in publique Christian assemblies FOr such formes of prayer as are Canonicall such as be commended to vs by Gods spirit in his word we haue already in the former Article set downe the true holy vse of them to be for instruction c. But that anie man should thrust his deuises into the worship of God christian assemblies we wonder at theire ignorant presumption and much more that they dare be so bold as to set stint the holy ghost what vvhen hovv manie vvords to vtter in prayer So that your annuall monthly dayly morning and euening prayers vvherin you bynde mens consciences to the prescript repetition of your ovvne vvords as an offring to God vve hold them by the euidēce of Gods booke not only a babling but apochriphall Idolatrous contrary to the second Commaundmēt bringing the vvrath of God vppon the imposers receauers For by theis Idolls you take avvay the vvhole lyberty fredome true vse of spirituall prayer yea you stop the springs of the lyuing fountaine vvhich Christ hath sealed in his Church 3. That the publique prayers vvorship of God in England as it is by lavve in the Church of England established is false superstitious popish not so be vsed in anie
god vvho vvill abide no halting For the vvarrant of those things vve haue the doctrine of the prophetts Christ his Apostles who teach vs in this case to suffer persequutioÌ„ as they that feare him that can cast both soule bodye into hell fyre and if the magistrate punish vs for vvel doing vve are far from resistance vvillingly vndergoing vnto death theire displeasure But god forbid they should be guylty of owre innocent bloud by such sclaunderous reports vvithout due examinacoÌ„n of the truth It is these vvicked false prophetts that trouble the land that oppose the magistrats povver against Christ ciuill against spirituall Prince against Subiects 11. That the presbiterie or Eldership may for some causes after admonition if there ensue not reformation excommunicat the Queene WE detest that Antichristian povver of that person or presbiterye vsurping aucthoritie ouer the vvhole Church as you others do exercise in your popish Courts secret Classes devised Synods of priests as though they vvere Lords ouer the heritage The true officers of Christ vsurp no tyrannicall iurisdiction ouer the leaste member neither do anie publique thing vvithout the consent of the vvhole Congregation much lesse may the presbiterie excommunicat anie person by theire sole povver seing Christ hath gyuen this povver to the vvhole Church and not solye to the presbiterie The Prince also if he vvilbe held a meÌ„ber of Christ or of the Church must be subiect to Christs censure in the Church That Congregation then wherof the prince is a member may excommunicat the obstinat offendors therin vvithout exception of person read of in the whole Booke of God yea great iniurye to Christ his Church and to the prince it were to exempt them from the meanes of theire owne saluation for which end this power is only gyuen ought to be so exercised Neither doth it derogate diminish or take away anie part of the magistrats power or aucthoritie except you vvould haue no lawefull magistracye that is not of the Church or that the spirituall power of Christ in his Church should disanull the magistracy which were diuelish doctrine 12. That the Church of England as it novv standeth by lavve established professeth not a true Christ nor true religion that it hath not ministers indeed nor Sacraments indeed AS for your Religion Church Sacraments c. we haue before shewed the forgerye of them vnto which former Articles vve referr the reader Only now vve must take away BalaaÌ„ his stumbling block which he layeth before men as though vve denyed the true Christ perfect God perfect man of his tvvoe natures subsisting not confounded but vnited c. Yea vve confesse there is but one bodye one spirit one Lord one faith one baptisme and that this Christ is in all places the same for euer hovvsoeuer the false Church may challenge interest in the lyuing Child But that these parish assemblies denie him to reigne ouer them yea to be anie true Christ vnto them by theire deeds it is manifest For doe they not put the reede of the Popes Canons in his hand in steade of the Scepter of his ovvne holy vvord Do they not make him a minister of an other TestameÌ„t by bynding him to this theire popishe Apochripha liturgye and all theire other deuises made or to be made Do they not make him a priest a sacrifice to all the prophane vngodly To conclude do they not hereby denye and abrogate all his offices in his Church of kingdome priesthoode prophecye and his vvhole anointing in the flesh The brief summe of a conference had the 9. day of the 3. Moneth betweene Mr. Hutchinson Arch-DeacoÌ„ me Iohn Greenwood prisoner in the Fleet hauing bene kept close now a yeare an half by the BBs sole commaundement The perticuler discourse wherof vvere but vnprofitable to relate neither will I trust my fraile memorye therin Mr. Hutchchinson said he came by vertue of Commission in her Ma ts name to confer c. I denying to make answere to anie thing vntill I might haue indifferent vvitnesse by the matter to be vvritten downe obteined to haue pen ynke Mr. Calthrop a gentleman prysoner to be vvitnes I desired Mr. Hutch to set downe the end of his comming I vvould make answere thereunto vvhereuppon he vvrote vvith his owne hand to this effect Memorandum that I Mr. Huthchinson being desired by Mr. Greenwood to set downe the end of my comming shew it him to be by vertue of commission yet not to examine him or anie vvay to hurt him but to confer vvith him about his seperating of himself from the Church of England if I might reduce him c. I Iohn Greenwood not desiring Mr. Hutchinson his comming yet am most vvilling of anie Christian conference vvhere it shall be free asvvell to oppose as ansvvere on both sides the matter to be recorded in vvriting The cause that I vvill not othervvise reason is for that I haue bene vvickedly sclauÌ„dered our cause falsly reported by Do. Some others c. Mr. Hutchinson then brought forth certaine articles of theire collections reading them vnto me Also he shevved me Do Somes sclauderous booke vvhere he turned to the positions the author had falsly affirmed to be ours Hauing read his Articles he demaunded vhether I approued or disalovved of them To the Articles I said they vvere theyre ovvne collectioÌ„s not ours And as for Mr. Somes booke it vvas full of lyes sclaunders But I vvilled him if he vvould confer to set dovvne some position vnder his hand vvhich I vvould assent vnto or els disproue Still he vvould haue me to ansvvere some of those articles c. But at length he vvilled me to set dovvne some cause whie I would not come to theire Church vvhereuppoÌ„ I vvorte thus The parish assemblies in England consist of all sorts of profane people generallye subiect to this antichristian ministerie lavves Courts vvorship c. And therfore are not the true apparant established Churches of Christ To this he first answered that if the parish assemblies were a false Church then euery member thereof was a member of the false Church which were daÌ„gerous for me to affirme I desired him first to denye or affirme the argument being generall after infer what it pleased him at last he made this answere in writing with his owne hand HVTCH. Your vnsufficient Argument hath 2. defaults in it 1. the sequell of your Argument is not true 2. Your first assertion cannot be prooued GREEN I will replie vppon your second exception as order requireth That Your parish assemblies consist of all sortes of profane people c. is thus proued They vvere all by the blovving of her Maiesties trumpet at her coronaiâ—â—â— in one day receaued vvithout conuersion of life by faith repentance they theyr seede euer since generallie receaued to your sacrament vvithout anie seperation from the vvorld Therfore they novv consist of all sorts of profane
all his Children and hath gyuen to vs his holy Spirit to help owr infirmities to teach vs to pray according to his will in his worde we are also there taught That we neede no man to teach vs but as the same anoyntinge teacheth vs of all things moreouer we finde not anie such deuised prayers or stinted seruice perscribed to the Church by those excellēt perfect workemen Thappostles neyther yet anie Commaundment or authoritie gyuē by thē vnto the church to make bring in ympose or receiue anie such stinted deuised Apochripha seruice where only the worde of God the graces of Gods spirit ought to be heard For these causes we esteeme refuse all such deuised Liturgies as superfluous will not worshipp inuentiōs traditions of men besids contrary to Gods reuealed worde to the graces of Gods Spirite to owr Christian libertie Wherfore we wonder at the ignorance of theise blynde Pharesies which knowing neither the right ende vse nor meanes of prayer thēselues yet dare in this maner teach correct quench the Spirit of God in others by ymposing the chaffe leauen of their own lypps vppon the whole Church yea as a sacryfice vppon God himself will he nyl he Article 3. They teache their is no head or Supreame gouernor of the Church of Christ And that the Queene hath none authoritie in the Church to make lawes Ecclesiasticall WE hold Christ to be the only heade of his Church the greatest Princes in the world to be but members of his Church We hold her Maiestie to be supreame gouernor of al persons estats causes whatsoeuer with in her Dominiōs We renounce the Pope all popishe iurisdictions ouer eyther Conscience Queene or Contrye and we acknowledg no other Prince potentate or power forreigne or Domestical Ecclesiasticall or Ciuill to haue anie superiour or equall authoritie within her Maiesties Dominions We hold Christ to be the only Lawgyuer in his Church and that he hath already beinge the Sonne as faithfull in his howse as his seruant MOSES in his Tabernacle established sufficient Lawes for the gouerment of his Church vnto the worlds end in his last will Testament which no Prince nor all the Princes in the world nor the whole Church may alter add vnto or take from vppon the paynes contayned in the Scriptures But both Prince people ought with all their endeuour as farr as the Lorde hath gyuen them knowledge meanes to put the same in execution Article 4. They teache that a lay man may beget faith And that vve haue no neede of publique administration WE know not what you meane by your old popish termes of lay men we holde al true beleyuers Ecclesiasticall spirituall yea and that anie such beleyuer may beget faith and for euident proofe thereof referr you to these places of scripture Luke 10.1 c. Luke 8.39 Acts. 8.4 Acts 11.19 c. Acts. 18.26 1 Corin. 14. entier 1 Corinth 7.16 Phil. 2.15.16 1 Pet. 3.2 1 Pet. 4.10 2 Tim. 2.2 1 Thessa. 5.11 c. Iam. 5.19.20 which shall eyther instruct of cōuince your herein Yet hold we the publique administracōn of the word by PASTORS TEACHERS and the PROPHETS in the church by far without all comparyson more excellent more blessed more to be desired and iudg your synne and iniquitie by so much the more heynouse and euen come to the full in that you so bitterly with all your gall and spyte resist the holy ghost by hindring vs his seruants from proceeding to so heauenly gracious a meanes of owr saluation and earnestly with all your forces oppose your selues against God in that you will neither enter your selues into his kingdome nor suffer such as would Article 5. They condemne all comming to Churche all preaching all Institution of Sacraments and say that all the Ministers are sent by God in his anger to deceaue the people THe Lord condemneth and we according to his Commaundement shunne all false Churches false deceitfull preaching and false Institutions of Sacraments and we belieue as the Lord hath said that all false Ministers are sent of God in his wrath to deceaue the people of which sorte we protest your publique parrish assemblies as they stand in this Confusion disorder and Idolatrie your publique preaching Sacraments and ministrie to be and are ready by the manifest euidence of Gods vndoubted word to approue the same to your faces it anie Christian audience or indifferent tryall might be granted Article 6. They affirme that the people must reforme the Church and not tarye for the Magistrate And that the Primatiue Churche sued not to Courts or Parliaments nor vvayted vppon Princes pleasures But vve make Christ to attend vppon Princes to be Subiect to their lavves and gouernment WE goe not about to reforme your Romish Bisshopricks Deanes officers Aduocates Courts Cannons neither your popish Priests halfe-Priests Ministers all which come out of the bottomlesse pytt But we leaue those merchantmen their wares with the curse of God vppon them vntill they repent We are also taught in the word that the kingdome of God commeth not by obseruation neither is brought in by the arme of flesh but by the spirit of God and by the power of his worde working in the harts of all Christs faithfull seruants true repentance from deade workes and all things that displease the Lord euen as sone as they are reproued vnto them by his worde as also a true conuersion of theire harts and soules vnto the Lord with an earnest loue continuall zeale and ready desire to put in practise what soeuer the Lord sheweth them to be his will in his worde without all delaye or excuse whosoeuer forbyd or Commaunde the contrary We are to obey God rather then men and if anie man be ignorant let him be ignorant stil We are not to stay from doing the Lords Commaundement vppon the pleasure or offence of anie Article 7. That the Booke of common prayer is a pregnant I dole and full of abhominations a peice of Svvynes flesh and abhomination to the Lorde WE haue shewed in owr answeare to your second Article what we thinke of all Apocrypha deuised Liturgies when they are brought into emposed vppon the Church But seinge you are so zealous for the syluer shryne of your DIANA and wayle for your Portuise we affirme it to be as you report a PREGNANT IDOLE which hath in it an infinite sorte of Idols is full of abhominations bytter fruite As may appeare by the double Idols of your solempne double feasts of your hollomass Christmass Candlemass Easter Whitsontyde Trynitie sonday c. Your Lady dayes Saints dayes with the Eaues feasts fasts and deuised worshipp vnto them which fill a great part of your booke Also your lents Rogacōns ash-wensdayes with the bitter cursings