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A68098 A pleasant dialogue, betweene a souldior of Barwicke, and an English chaplaine Wherein are largely handled & laide open, such reasons as are brought in for maintenaunce of popishe traditions in our Eng. church. Also is collected, as in a short table, 120. particular corruptions yet remaining in our saide church, with sundrie other matters, necessary to be knowen of all persons. Togither with a letter of the same author, placed before this booke, in vvay of a preface. Gilby, Anthony, ca. 1510-1585. 1581 (1581) STC 11888; ESTC S109674 76,666 200

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incense nor to weare a garlande vpon their heads because the christian souldier is commanded to abstayne from all shew of euill and to sight and striue agaynst the workes of darkenesse and to reprooue them and so striuing as hee oughte to doe waite for the Garlande So rather would I sterue vnder Barwick Walles than doe as thou doest and haste counselled me to doe either in taking of a Benefice by such vnlawful means or to enter into the popes liuerie my sworn enemie because I am an English man and to mee most detestable of all other earthly creatures because I am a christian man for I know am fully perswaded by the worde of God that the Pope is y e very Antichrist the sonne of perdition against whom with hart and hand I doe thinke my selfe moste bounde to fight Therefore my harte ariseth in my body when I see thee and thy fellows cloathed like his Chaplaines that burned the blessed Bible and our faythfull fathers and deare Brethren in our eyes You say that it is great wisdome for you to weare this Popishe geare and call other men fooles that will not doe it Then was there greater wisdome say I in the Pope and his Priestes that haue taught you thus to doe So may men say of a hundred points of poperie that you maintaine buying and selling licences dispensations pluralities absolutions and other marchandise of that Romane Antichrist And I doe aske you all as you will aunswere before God what doe you by these your deedes but approoue that Romish beast and labour to heale his deadly wounde and so to make a mocke of a reformation of religion But God wil not be mocked There was neuer yet any reformation begunne and after repented but it was terribly punished It is better not to haue known the way of truth saith Peter than after they haue knowne it to turne from the holy commaundement You began to runne well sayth Paule what carnall imaginations haue hindered your course Seeing we haue begunne the true Religiō by casting away mans traditions worshipping God in spirit as our Sauiour Christ hath taught vs he will not be content that you maynteyne these carnall beggerlie Antichristian pompes rites lawes garmentes and traditions Therefore like as Paule crieth out against the Galathians and calleth them fooles and counteth them bewitched for turning backe but to Iewishe ceremonies So might I call thee a foolishe Papiste bewitched by Antichrist that thus raylest against the Ministers of Christe for the maintenaunce of thy fooles bables borowed of the Papistes Bern. I do cal them none otherwise than all the world calleth them And thou shouldest do me great iniurie if thou didst so call me neither would I beare it at thy handes for it might put me in hazard of my liuing if I should yeeld to be a papist neither doth the garment make a man otherwise then he is as is the olde prouerbe Mil. No but the Garmente giueth men great occasion to gesse what hee is or howe he woulde bee counted a Courtier or a Carter a Collier or a Souldier as thou and I were wonte to weare Skarfes Harquibushes or Halbertes to signifie what we were and thou knowest that if we see a man in a Friers garment or a Fooles coate eyther we say he is so or else he woulde be so counted If he weare a Hares skutte or a horne we cal him a Hunter If he weare the weede of a regular we cal him by his order Mōke Frier or Hermite If he weare this secular Weede men haue hitherto counted him a secular priest for this was the playne difference amongst thē that their secular priests forth of the Churche shoulde weare this apparaile that you doe and in the Churche at the least they shoulde weare a surples also as you doe The other Sectes had likewise their Sutes some Cattes tayles some graye Amices some Lambeskinnes some white Miniuere some blacke some blew some chaungeable Sarcenet as you haue yet in your Monasteries and Cathedrall Churches The which Fooles hoodes are but a vayne pharisaicall pompe then vttering pride when they shoulde be most farre from pride when they appeare before God in prayers And therefore all these popishe fooleries should be banished from Christs church for Christ our Sauiour if he had thought them decent for his religion woulde haue commaunded them but hee forbiddeth vs suche Pharisaicall shewes and his father will not now be worshipped as the Iewes did then or as the Idolaters haue done at any time And Peter and Paule with all the other Apostles and faithful Ministers of Christ as they were otherwaies known then by garments so needed they no commaundement for garmentes neither gaue they any commaundement for their successors but onely to be known by the careful feeding of Christ his flocke and such other markes as Paule nameth in the sixt chapter of the seconde Epistle to the Corinthians But that proud Pope who is that cursed idoll sheapheard that he might be contrarie to Christ and his in all thinges and that he might haue sure marks and euident knowledge of his trayterous broode in al countreies caused al his sects and sworn souldiers men and women to chaunge their liueries from the Kinges liege people wheresoeuer they dwelt So that no King nor Emperor had any authoritie ouer them in any that tooke this Popish attire vppon their backes they had so many priuiledges and immunities Wherfore if Princes will suffer still those that should be their subiectes to weare such Popish weedes they shall not want Popishe practises of such as delite in their olde Fathers liueries by whome they had so many commodities Bern. If Maister Examinator say true these ministers are worse then the Papists for he calleth them Shrinkers Schismatikes Bellygods Deceauers Flatterers hastening to the secte of Anabaptistes and Libertines little differing from Donatistes Disturbers Factions Scoffers Biters Snappers at Superiours like Pelagians like Andians Rogatians and Circumcellians and smell of the Papistes Mil. What Of the Papistes All is like true Would to God none of your side did more smell of Papistrie nor of the other vices Are they Shrinkers that willingly giue their bodies to the prison rather then they will departe from the simplicitie of Christ his gospel was Paule a Shrinker that would not circumcise Titus for y e false brethren Nay they are Shrinkers that turne back as your men haue done Eleazar was no shrinker that would not eat swines flesh neither the Mother nor the seuen Brethren nor yet Daniell nor yet Moses that would yeeld nothing for commaundement As for Schysmatikes they cannot bee that cleaue so fast to Christe that they will suffer nothing of Antichriste to come vppon their backes and they holde onely of their heade Christe Howe farre they are from Belly gods all that knowe them can witnesse and their deedes do testifie And if you would put of those poisoned popish weedes we would aske none other
this geare All is not golde that glittereth But I pray thee tell mee howe thou doest proue them preceptes of men as thou waste about to doo Mil. I say they haue no ground of gods worde therefore they are preceptes of men God neuer limited anie seuerall garment for his Ministers to bee knowne by in the newe Testament therefore they are playne preceptes of men and plantes by the heauenlie Father not planted The papistes them selues wil graunt them to be precepts of men Me thinke therefore the gospellers should not denie it Bern. They denie that they are such preceptes of men as Christ speaketh of to be brought in for Gods seruice in religion Mil. Amongest the papistes they were brought in and are vsed for his seruice in religion as their owne bookes and doinges do testifie Nowe the papistes are men who according to y e diuersitie of their sectes Regulare and irregulare appointed the diuersitie of garmentes some for the church some for holy water as the Surplesse Stole or Tippet some for censing the Idolls as the Copes black for the dead redde for y e Martyrs white for the Virgins Nowe all these superstitious trifles are preceptes of euill men therefore of men Bern. But not in Gods seruice religiō Mil. I do graunt For God will not be serued by such thinges neither will Christe allowe them in his Religion And therefore are they preceptes of men hauing no allowaunce of Gods worde nor of Christes Gospell who neither careth for these garments nor any other popishe shewes in the ministration of his holie Sacramentes or anie action of his Religion Neyther doe they sette forth the glorie of GOD nor his worde nor profitte but hinder the soules of men from the true seruice of God in Spirite and trueth And as alwayes wicked men haue most vrged their owne preceptes so at this daye these preceptes are more vrged than Gods holie commaundementes Would to god there were not to manie exāples both in the Cities in the Countries to proue this matter true To weare a vestiment is a precepte of men And why not a Cope An Albe is a precepte of men and why not a Surplesse A Stole is a precept of men and why not a Tippet c. Al patches of Poperie are preceptes of menne Therefore the priesthoode being taken away as the Authour to the Hebrewes sayeth it is of necessitie that the lawes pertaining to the Priesthoode shoulde be taken awaye So that if this were a lawe pertayning to the popishe priesthoode to weare a Surplesse at the ministration of the Sacramentes and at the saying of their Mattins or their Euensonge in their religion nowe should it cease from amongest them which haue renoūced that popish blasphemous priesthoode and that false religion whose body and substaunce if they wholie hate they muste needes abhorre all the patcheries that appertaigne to y e same religiō For the popishe priesthoode is like the lowsie and patched cloake of a filthie begger Nowe what a fondnes were this for two wise men or for thee and mee that pytying a poore begger had pulled off his patched cloake from him to giue him a better and afterwarde we twayne should fall together by the eares and the one caste the other in prison for the refusing to weare those lowsie ragges Bern. Surelie I would be loth to bee in thy companie if thou shouldest weare anie patches of that lowsie geare therefore I would be loth to cōpel thee to it by prisons Mil. Loe here is the strife betwixt our Gospellers They haue put downe that patched popishe Masse yet will they haue lowsie patches of it For the Surplesse is a Massing garment by the Papistes owne bookes They haue put down that Antichristian priesthoode and they will fight for his coates They are farre more foolishe than our fellowes the souldiours that when they had killed Christ caste lottes for his coate And I tell thee Bernarde thou sayest that thou shouldest loth my companie if I dyd weare the lowsie patches of some begger and so I tell thee playnelie that I doo lothe thee and all thy companie when I doo see you in the lowsie ragges of poperie Yet do I not hate you for thē would I let you alone But I tell you my minde plainely because I loue you and seeke to do you good Bern. Fellow Miles I thanke thee hartilie for I truste thou haste done me good I haue marked some things that I shal neuer forgett which I neuer heard nor vnderstoode before But how doest thou proue the thirde Minor that these garmentes giue offence Mil. Diddest thou not heare me say that they cause me to loth thy companie and so be sure they do offende many others who so soone as they see you in these garmentes their bloud is vpp remembring howe they burned the booke of God and that such thei were that burned their brethren of late and murthered y e soules of their fathers before Bern. Tushe this is but your heate and the offence is taken by you not giuen by vs. Mil. Yes yes You giue offences in faith and offences in charitie also Bern. Howe proue you that Mil. You drawe men from the stabilitie in Christe and frō the synceritie of the Gospell whylest you cause the ignoraunt to beleeue that Christes appoyntement of his Ministerie Sacramentes are not decent ynoughe without some of the Antichristian leauē Agayne thou boldenest others to occupie other patches of poperie while it thou vsest these and buyldest them vpp to superstition agayne And ye giue them to thinke that you do not abhorre that blasphemous Idolatrous priesthoode whose garmentes ye weare Yea the Bishoppes com●el men to weare these thinges against their consciences and therefore sinning thus against their brethren and wounding their weake consciences they sinne against Christe as Paule sayeth to the Corinthians and giue great offences Again your offences in charitie are manifest For besides the men that you spoyle of their liuings howe many women and children haue cause to be offended with your cruell cōmaundement about this geare And all that be growen to ful strēgth in the gospel haue their senses exercised to y e discretion of good euil are grieuously offended when they see them that haue so long a tyme bin teachers and preachers agaynst Antichriste not onelie weare suche superstitious apparell but compell others by tyrannie to come into the same bōdage Moreouer you giue offences both of faith and charitie when as you stablishe the Papistes in their olde erroures and cause them to saye That the Gospellers can not minister their Sacramentes nor haue anie ministerie at all but of their leauinges And as Hardinge testifieth to the Queenes Maiestie It hardeneth their hartes and causeth them to looke for more at our handes Euen as it is reported that Butcher Boner saide They beginne to taste of our Pottage they will shortelie fall to the flesh Thus they are moste offended with this Popishe ware