Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
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A14057
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A new dialogue vvherin is conteyned the examinatio[n] of the messe and of that kynde of priesthode, whych is ordeined to saye messe: and to offer vp for remyssyon of synne, the body and bloud of Christe agayne.
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Turner, William, d. 1568.
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1548
(1548)
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STC 24363; ESTC S108032
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34,102
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104
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vnconsecrated wyne in the chalyce and vnconsecrated breade liynge vpon the chalice Now haue I proued by the very wordes of the messe that the ende of the messe is to purchase remission by offeryng of breade wyne to deserue euerlastynge lyfe by receyuynge and offeryng of Christes body to make fayre wether rayne to heale all sycknesses to bringe soules froÌ hel and to delyuer them from tormentes to honour sayntes and to make a memoriall of sayntes deathes and natiuites of the receyuyng of Christes body and bloud and otherwhyles to make the same of the offerynge of breade and wyne These are the operations intentes and endes of the messe and the same are not the endes and operations of the supper of the Lorde for the ende of christis supper is to remeÌber christes death to gyue thaÌkes for our redeÌptioÌ and to remeÌbre that we all are meÌbres of one body and ought therfore one to loue an other Therfor the endes of the messe the operations of the same and the ende and intent of Christes supper are diuerse and differ much one froÌ another whereupon it foloweth that the messe and Chrystes supper doo dyffer and ar not al one Then can ye not say that the messe was ordeyned of God in the xxvi of Mathew and that the messe is the supper of the lorde decked semely appoynted with deceÌt apparell for such a mistery Palemon Yf ye haue no other places of scrypture to proue hat the messe was ordeyned of god theÌ ye haue hyther to brought furthe she muste be dryueÌ out of Christes church as a mere inueÌtioÌ of maÌ Therfor yf ye haue any mo places bryng them furth Philargy The messe is good all goodnes is of god as S. Iames sayeth euery good gyft and euery perfect gyft is from aboue descendynge from the father of lyght ergo the messe is of god Moreouer Christ sayeth in the .xiiii. of Iohn That coÌforter which is the holy ghost whom the father shal send in my name he shall teach you all thinges what soeuer I shall speake vnto you Loo here Christe promyseth that the holy Ghost shal teach the Apostles and the church all thynges that he shall speake after hys Ascension Then dyd Christe doubtles tell the Churche many thynges after hys Ascensyon whyche the holy Ghoste taught a greate whyle after and emonge those thynges that were onely taught after the ascention was the messe Also Iohn xvi Chap Christe sayeth I haue many thynges to say vnto you whych ye caÌ not beare now but when he shall come whych is the spirite of truthe he shall lede you into all truth Beholde here how that Christe dyfferred to shew the Apostles certayne verites tyll that he was asceÌded vp into heauen They was there some truthes tolde to the churche after that Christe was ascended which was not tolde of Christe before hys ascencion of and theÌ is no mentioÌ made in the .iiii. Euangelistes And surely as I haue sayde the messe is one of them whyche was not iaught before the ascention but aftet it as our mother the holy churche beleueth whose doctrine I wyll rather folowe then all the Lutherans in Germany though therwer CCCCC tymes as many mo then now are Magis enim credenduÌ est Marie veracique iudeorum turbae fallaci Saye not nowe but that ye haue now scripture alleged you to proue that the messe is of God Knouuleg Ye make a reasoÌ and brynge furthe scripture to proue that the Messe is of God But howe strong your reason is and how rightly ye haue alleged the scrypture I shall shortly declare Where as ye reasoÌ the messe is good al goodnes is of God ergo the messe is of God ye commyt a fallacy or a deceytful dryft of sophistry whych is called of the LogiciaÌs which hate such sophisticall deceytes Petitio principii that is when a maÌ wyl proue a thynge to be true by the same thinge or wyth an other that is as doubtfull as that is which is called into questioÌ The chefe matter that we go aboute in thys accusation is too proue that the messe is vngodly full of blasphemy and therfore ought to be put out of the church And yet ye very wyttely allege thys for a prynciple and out of al controuersy that the messe is good and coÌclude that therfore it is of God No no syr ye caÌ not bleare my eyes so Proue ye fyrst that the messe is good and then shal I graunt you your conclusioÌ that it is of God To the place whych ye allege out of the .xiiii. of Iohn wherwith ye would proue that Christ taught the Apostles the church certayn doctrine that he taught not before his ascentioÌ wherof ye saye that the messe is one I answere that ye allege the scrypture false for it is not in the text as yon allege it he shall teache you what soeuer I shall saye vnto you but what soeuer I haue said vnto you I take to witnes both Erasmus translation the Greke text which is thus Ekinosymas didaxi panta kai ypomnesi ymas panta osa eipon ymin that is to say he shall teache you all thynges put you in remembrauÌce of al thynges whatsoeuer I haue sayd vnto you And here may all meÌ se how crafte ye and vnfaythfully ye cite the scrypture allegynge one tence for an other and leauynge out the pryncipall part of the sentence As touchynge the place whiche ye allege oute of the .xvi. of Iohn in these wordes I haue many hinges to say vnto you but ye caÌ not beare theÌ now But wheÌ he shall come which is the spriet of truth he shal lede you into all truth I answer that ye caÌ not proue by this place that the holy gost taught the church any doctrine which the Apostles Euangelistes haue not left behinde theÌ en theyr wrytinges Yf ye say that they could not abide diuers thinges before Christes ascentioÌ I say that they could abyde the same after hys ascentioÌ Yf ye would apply in this seÌteÌce this word you only vnto the church after the apostles tyme not to the apostles ye do the apostles playn wroÌg for Christ sayd these wordes vnto theÌ TheÌ what can ye gather of this place Christ promised the apostles that the holy ghost should lead theÌ into all truth dyd he so or no yf he performed his promise the knew the apostles all truth no parte of the truth was vnknoweÌ vnto theÌ The apostles also was eyther vnfaithfull disobedieÌt seruauÌtes vnto christ or thei were faithfull obedient Yf they were faithful obedieÌt thei kept thes his coÌmaÌdemeÌtes Speake that in the lyghte whyche I spake in darkenes and speake ye that openly that ye haue hearde pryuely But Christe taught by the holy ghost the Apostles all truthe then were they eyther disobedient seruauntes or elles they taughte in theyr wryttynges all truth Yf they taught al truth in theyr wryttinges yet