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A41388 Firmianus and Dubitantius, or, Certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisme's that trouble the peace of the church and are destructive of primitive piety written in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians / by Tho. Good. Good, Thomas, 1609-1678. 1674 (1674) Wing G1029; ESTC R23950 83,883 174

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Righteous as all the Law which is set before you this day which as to their clearness are highly improved under the Gospel engaging us upon higher and more heavenly motives those under the Law being for the most part Temporal to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts to live Soberly Righteously and Godly in this present world Tit. 2. 12. There is no virtue which Christian Religion commendeth not no duty which it commandeth not no vice no sin which it does not condemn no Religion doth so much condemn Pride worldly-mindedness sensuality filthy lusts a poore private narrow Spirit selfishness as this no Religion doth so much commend humility meekness selfe-denyal charity peace unity no ●eligion doth so much exalt reason above passion and sence doth so much enoble the Spirit of man making it to look upon the Riches honors pleasures of the world as so many vain shadows deluding dreams transitory nothings the great design of it is not carnal and worldly but high and heavenly as to set forth t●e Glo●y of God to lift up the Soul above the Cre●ture to lead man by the way of holyness to everlasting happiness This Religion gives us the highest motives for the sincere practise of Piety and all manner of virtuous living th●t possible c●n be the pleasures of an holy life here the enjoyment of eve●lasting happiness hereafter it gives the strongest reasons against the power o● temp●ation● te●●hing us to mortifie the lusts of the flesh an● to contemn the vanities of the world putting the joyes of Heaven the torments of Hell the love of God in the ballance against the ple●sures of sin whi●h are no more then a feather to the massy glob of the earth Lastly Christian Religion from holy Scripture on which 't is founded doth reve●l unto us the nature attributes and works of God beyond all the Religions that ever were in the world how doth it magnifie and reconcile the justi●e and mercy of God towards sinful man How do●h it set forth the infinite power and wisdom of ●o● in making the world of nothing in such an excellent form and beauty which has drawn all ●o●sidering men into an admiration of the goodly fabrick of it Yet the must acute Philosophers were at a loss how and when 't was made whether 't was from all eternity or had a beginning in time whether 't was m●de of pr●existen● m●tter o● of the fo●tuitous concourse of Atoms whi●h fond opinions deserve not any serious confutation But the holy Scripture doth ●le●rly solve all these doubts is indeed the best Cōment on the book of Nature and doth give such an account of the original of the world the time and method of its production the peopling of nations the confusion of languages the depravation of nature which the Heathens understanding not fancied two principals one good the other evil from which all the good and evil in the world did proceed Mans recovery by the sacrificing of the Son of God for want of the knowledge and belief thereof all the bloody sacrifices practised by the Hea●hens were meer Impostures and ridiculous nothings these and divers other mysteries far above mans capacity to devise and not within the compass of natural corrupt reason are made plain unto us by Scripture Revelation which does abundantly prove that none but an infinite God could be Authour of this Divine Revelation of which those of the Heathens that of Mahomet were so many apish imitations diabolical cheats Dub. I am fully satisfied by the characters which you have given of the Religion in practise with the people of God especially with the Christians that the rule and measure of it must be from heaven not from men and consequently that all holy Scripture is divinely inspired is the word of the eternal God Firm. I could further acquaint you with many mo●e reasons to confirm you in this great truth which are common in every Authour that treats of it ●s namely the Antiquity of holy Scripture some part of it being before all writings the continu●nce of it by an extraordinary providence notwith●tanding the rage and malice of cruel bloody persecutors the sincerity impartiality candour simplicity of its writers quibus nullum fuit mendac ii praemium they had no earthly motives to perswade them to utter such forgeries as Atheist deem them to be nothing but bonds and imprisonments losses of goods and lives Again it must be acknowledged that the Pen-men of the Scripture were very good men or very bad for men of a cold indifferency they could not be If they were very good men they would never have conspired together to put such a cheat such a grand imposture upon the world as Anti-Scripturists would have the word of God to be If very bad they would never have wrot with so much zeal and earnestness against all manner of wickedness and especially against Lying and Hypocrisie Certainly they would never have exposed themselves to hazard lives and fortunes for no other reward then to be esteemed both Knaves and Fools by all prudent men Add to this that Lyers and Cheats do not usually agree one with the other but there is such a sweet harmony consent betwixt the Pen-men of Holy writ tho they lived at so great a distance from one another that questionless they were acted by one and the same infallible spirit Lastly The aversness the slowness that is in our corrupt hearts to believe all that is written in the Law and the Prophets Luke 24.25 a●ising from that contrariety which is betwixt the holy and spiritual word of God and our carnal and depraved minds is no small proof of the truth of it for 't is otherwise impossible to render any ration●l account why we should doubt or disbelieve this sacred word and never once question the truth of ordinary and common Histories which are conveyed down unto us not with the tenth part of that evidence which we have of the truth of holy Scripture But waving these reasons I shall only mention Two of the best which are urged against Infidelity to bring up the reer of my discourse The First whereof shall be taken from the fulfilling of Prophesies the other from Miracles which are the Seals of this our Magna Charta Dub. Tho I am sufficiently confirmed in the truth of this great principle by what you have already said yet I would most gladly hear your Arguments from Prophesies and Miracles Firm. First for Prophesies I shall acquaint you with some few out of the Old Testament to which your own reading may suggest many more which were exactly fulfilled according as they were foretold Dub. Did not Astrologers and Heathen Oracles foretel many things that came to pass as they were foretold Firm. I grant it but hear what judgment a learned Heathen passes upon them The Gods do foretel some natural things to come for that they observe the order conjunction of their natural causes but of things
in the beliefe of the being of God and the truth of his mo●t sacred word if he be true to these great fundamentals must of necessity be both an Orthodox and a serious Christian. Dub. If you can give me as good satisfaction in the divine Authority of Scripture as you have in the being of an eternal God Creatour of heaven and earth you will performe a work of greatest Charity but I f●ar of as great difficulty Firm. Happily you may perceive some difficulty in it but if you will make use of your reason and lay aside all prejudicating opinions which cheifly arise from that contrariety which is betwixt mens carnall corrupt hearts and the holy and pure word of God I hope by his blessing whose Cause I plead to perswade you to give your full assent to this other great principle of Christianity Dub. I shall endeavour to weigh your reasons in the ballance of an even unbiassed judgment and to receive them a●imo defaecato with a mind free from the dregs of sensuality interest partiality or prejudice Firm. Upon the confidence to find this ingenuity in you I shall present you with these following reasons 1. You do belive that there is an omnipotent God Creatour of heaven and earth that he made all things therein contained that being infinite in wisedome and knowledg he made all these things for some good end that he hath ordered them to act and worke in such a manner as is suitable to their several natures that in as much as they have their being facultys operations from their all wise and Glorious maker they are bound by the law of Creation to do homage and service to him that made them Dub. All this I grant to be very rational Firm. These things being granted that not to mention other Creatures as man had his being reason and understanding from Almighty God so is he bound to serve him in that way and manner which is agreeable to mans excellent nature which must be therefore a reasonable service which all the world as well Pagans as Jews and Christians call Religion which according to all sober people comprehends duties of piety as praier praises and sacrifices duties of temperance sobriety and chastity duties of honesty justice righteousness and all morality Dub. There is nothing more evident then that as there is a most wise and holy God that made man endued him with excellent facultys of reason and understanding so there is a debt and duty owing from man to God his maker which all the world calls Religion and no people in the world were ever so barbarous saies Cicero as to be destitute of all Religion yea there is such a tendency in the nature of man where t is not utterly extinguished by brutish sensuality that rather then he will worship no God at all he will bow down to a Sock or a Stone so that clear it is if there be a God the Creatour and man by him created there must of necessity be a Religion Firm. Truly nothing does more necessarily follow as Du-Plessis has well observed then a God a man a Religion But if Almighty God did make man to worship him sure he gave him some rules for that worship some law to direct him in this great concern of his Soul Dub. I cannot deny it and that this law was no law written in paper or engraven in tables of stone but the law of nature written in mans heart which made Tertullian utter these excellent words o ani●a naturaliter Christiana ô Divine Soul that art naturally a Christian. We see that the fire ascends the water moves towards the Center birds make their nests Beasts feed their young not by any outward positive law but by the unerring hand of nature and may not man that has a natural inclination to serve his maker perform this service without any institued law or prescribed Canon Firm. Ther 's no disputing against experience you see he does not and when you shall embrace and understand the holy Scriptures you will see he cannot by reason of his fall from that ●erfect sta●e in which he was first made whereas the inferior Creatures kept their Station Dub. I confess there are different Religions in the world opposite one to another so that all of them cannot be in the right way of wo●shiping God some of necessity must be false and erroneous Firm. If of all religions in the world all are not in the right how will you know which is the true Religion which is the false This you cannot discern by any imprinted law or light of nature unless excited by Art and industry which is in some measure common to all men that are not natural fools and Madmen stupid inconsiderate wretches or debauched bruits whose reason is ●unk down into gross Sensuality Dub. T is very true if the meer light of nature were sufficient to point out the true Religion I am not able to say why so many Sober men in several parts of the world who have not debauched their Reason and judgment should so strangely differ about it Firm. I believe you cannot nor yet why Jewes and Pagans did offer up bloody Sacrifices to these Deitys they worshipped Does any light of nature make it rational that the Gods should be pleased with the blood of poor innocent Beasts or is it rational to imagine that they should delight in humane ●acrifices Dub. I must acknowledge I do not understand how the light of nature should teach men that such Sacrifices should please the Gods I have oft●n wondered at this part of worship used by Jews and Gentiles pray Sir give your selfe the trouble of informing me whence this practise sprang Firm. You are satisfied that it had not its original from the light of nature for albeit some kind of Sacrifices as Prayers praises alms-deeds and it may be the offering of the Fruits of the Earth Deo datori to God that gave them might spring from that light yet the Sacrificing of Beasts was never shewed to Jew or Gentile by natures Candle but was after the fall of man appointed by Almighty God to prefigure the Grand propitiatory Sacrifice which was to be made by the blood of him that was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world which the Devil who is tearmed Gods Ape taught his servants the Gentils to imitate who had the shell but not the kernel the shadow but not the substance the outward rite but not Christ crucified represented by it Dub. I do acknowledg that the Sacrificing of beasts came not from the light of nature and you seem to make it probable that 't was from divine revelation and positive institution Firm. You will be better satisfied when you shall consider That the founders of all Religions in the world did pretend to Revelations Numa Lycurgus Mahomet c. which the devil taught them to do in imitation of Moses and the rest of the holy Prophets who spake as they were moved by
of the greatest wickednesse under a pretence of Religion as is very obse●vable in all heathen mysteries which indeed were very mysteries of iniquity abominable Idolatry not to be named to modest eares Dr. Stillingfleets Orig. Sac. lib. 2. Cap. 10. 4. True miracles differ from diabolicall impostures in three particolars 1. in the manner of their working 2. their number 3. the quality of ●hings wrought by them 1. The impostares of Satan were done by a great deal o● pomp and Ceremony magical rites char●es and medicines what Christ did was with a words speaking yea by the very touch o● his garm●●● 2. For their number those Satanicall jugli●gs were comparatively very few there were not many that were cured by the devill and his instruments but Christ cured whole multitudes and that not in the Revestryes of the te●ple where fraud and imposture might be easily suspected but in the presence of the people Arno●ius's objection against the Gentiles is very rationall what wonder is it to shew one or two cured when thousands lie continually in your temples languishing for want of cure which 〈◊〉 e●en weary your God Escula●ius with pray●rs and teares but could have no helpe ●rom him with all their importunities 3. For the quality of thing● pretended to be done by miracles the cures among the heathens were some slight things in Comparison of those performed by Christ what heathen jugler did ever open the eyes of any man that was born blind make the dumb to speak the lame to walke or raise the dead by a words speaking or by a touch of the hand See Dr. S●illingfl●ets book before cited There is one other argument made use of by the learned Dr. Hammond in his tract of the reasonablenesse of Christian Religion which ● friend caused me to remember for the confirmation of the truth of this divine Revelation This learned man proves the mission and doctrine of Jesus Christ from that high testimony wh●ch God the father gave him by a voice from heaven coming out of the midst of thunder which way of Revelation was known to the Jews by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the daughter of a voice and by this God did three times give testimony unto Christ 1 immediatly after his baptism 2. at his trans●iguration 3. a little before his death and all in the p●esence of sufficient witnesses this testimony of God the father given three severall times d●d ●ully ratify the doctrine of Christ contained in the scriptures of the New Testament God gave ●he very same testimony to Moses and h●s doctrine and ●hat in the sight and audience of many thousands Exod. 19.16 Thi● Mo●●s often reminds the people of especiall● Deut. 4.32.33 where he tells them that never any people did heare the voice of God out of ●●e midst of the fire as they had done and thi●●ay o●●e●●lation seems to be so suitable to the 〈…〉 of almighty God and so pecu●●●r ●o hi● that the devill who in other things 〈◊〉 A●e never attempted to imitate God in t●● 〈◊〉 nor do I believe he was ever a●●e G●● h●ving restr●ined him by ●his omnipo●●●● 〈◊〉 ●nd re●erved this way of Revelation pe●●●● 〈…〉 D●b 〈◊〉 Disco●rse hath been so rationall that 〈…〉 as ●g●ipp●● almost perswaded to be a 〈…〉 bu●●●together such as you are as to 〈◊〉 ●wo great principle● of Christianity concerni●g ●he being of God and the Divine Authority ●f ●oly Scripture and methinks I see all false Relig●●ns fall fl●t on their faces before these great ●ru●hs as Dagon did before the Arke Firm. No marviell for he that doth firmly believe that God is and that the Scripture is his word must needs abominate those false worships which are ●o extreamly contrary to his divine nature and his most sacred writ but seeing you are so well perswaded of these principles I shall not trouble you with any more reasons for the confirmation of them onely if you shall hereafter meet with any scoffing Atheist or infidell that shall deny either of them you may for conclusion of all presse upon him this dilemma or forked argument Either 't is true there is a God and the Scripture is his word or 't is not true suppose these things be not true yet thou believest them to be so thou art onely in an errour for this short span of time but what if they prove undoutedly true and thou dost not believe them to be so then thou art eternally damned now what a madness is it for any man for the avoiding of a seeming temporary errour to come within the danger of everlasting damnation Dub. This argument might startle any Atheist and make him consider with himselfe how sad his Condition will be if these things be so as solid and undenyable reasons do demonstrate and yet he should live and die an infidell O what will become of such an one unto all eternity I am full of wonder and amazement that seeing there are such convincing reasons against Atheism and infidelity that there should be any such Creatures upon the face of the earth when certainly there are none such in hell for the devill believes and ●rembles Firm. You will cease to wonder when you shall rightly consider the certain reasons of those grosse errours which are 1. Drollery and foolish jesting which renders men inconsiderate and mindlesse even in the affaires of the world much more in the things of eternity a man that is given to Droll and jest is uncapable of any serious businesse 2. Many men are men of short discourse they do not understand the force of an argument by reason of the weaknesse of their discursive faculty which is altogether rusty for want of use exercise and ingenious education though in the booke of nature the eternall power and God-head of the Almighty be wrote in large Characters yet every one cannot Read in that booke no more then he that never went to schoole can read the Primer halfe psalter or any book of the faire●t print Dub. This is true of many simple and illiterate men that are very brutes not at all to be distinguished from the beasts that perish but by the erect figure of their bodies their Rational soules mean while being sunke downe into mere sensuality such as have not God in all their thoughts they trouble not themselves to think of him either that he is or is not these digenerate Creatures do not concern themselves in matters of Religion but I hope you wil● not say that the witt● of the time are such ignorant Animals Firm. I shall not doubt to affirm it and that for these reasons 1. You may observe that these witty men are persons of no serious or solid judgments especially in things of highest concernment they are such as spend their time in idleness Drollery vain Recreations so that albeit the Lord has given them those two great bookes to read in that of nature and the holy scripture yet they vouchsafe not to read or meditate upon