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A39360 Letters to Mr. Hughes of Plymouth, and Mr. Ford of Exeter, concerning the common prayer from Edm. Elis. Elys, Edmund, ca. 1634-ca. 1707.; Ford, Thomas, 1598-1674.; Hughes, Thomas, 1603-1667. 1660 (1660) Wing E680; ESTC R25045 10,521 26

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you and others in this County against the use of the Common Prayer hath begotten in the minds of severall persons such a prejudice against it as deprives them of many of those good Thoughts which they might enjoy when they hear their Ministers say that Service if they did duely and without prejudice attend to it Sir If you think that a man may not worship GOD in spirit and in truth in the use of that Form of Prayer which we call the Common-Prayer I shall earnestly entreat you to shew me what Reason you have or rather what you take to be a Reason for this your Opinion which I take to be very Erroneous and very Obstructive to the Peace of the Church If you think your Reason Convincing pray make use of it and endeavour to convince me If you refuse to write to me how justly may I Feare that you make it your Businesse to Draw the Vulgar into your Opinion rather then to Guide any one into the way of Truth If you shall object any thing against particular expressions I must tell you that those portions of the Liturgie whose expressions I undertake to maintain are Morning and evening Prayer and the Letany As for the Formes for the Buriall of the Dead Baptisme c. though I do not except against any passage in them yet I do not undertake to vindicate them because I foresee that such Controversies may easily arise from them as a Spirituall Man cannot well discuss without Loss of Time as I have said to another Learned Person Sir I beseech you do not mistake me I abhor Contention though sometimes I finde it necessary to ingage my self in Controversie I call no man upon Earth Master but in all humility I acknowledge your Superiority and profess my selfe Sir Your Servant To Mr. FORD SIR SIth you scorn to answer my Letter and Despise my Youth saying old men know young men to be Fools c. of which my Friend has inform'd me at large I would have you and all others who shall Censure me for writing to you so harshly as you have done to know this that I boldly Appeal to his Judgement who saw My Heart when I wrote that Letter and Yours when you contemn'd it I am Sir Your servant IF these LETTERS shall chance to be seen by Mr Isaac Pennington the younger * one of those whom they call Quakers whom I take to be one of the most Honest and Ingenuous of all those who any way oppose the Doctrine or Discipline of the Church of England I shall entreat him to peruse them seriously and if he find upon his spirit any thing to be objected against that Assertion which I have tendred to these men Mr. Hughes and Mr. Ford either to be Granted or Oppos'd by them I shall entreat him to discover it in Exact and Punctual Expressions For from my soule I desire to know where the strength of that Fancy lies which holds men so fast in this Errour of Disliking the Common Prayer I shall further entreat this man to peruse seriously and to lay deeply to heart in the real Fear and Dread of the Great God whom both He and I say We Know these following Lines which I sent a while since to the Quakers in my own Country who I hope some of them will not deny that I am a true Preacher of Jesus Christ and Him crucified And will I hope e're long by the Day star arising in their Hearts clearly Discover that the opinion that the Church of England is any way Antichristian must needs proceed from The Father of Lies To all Quakers or Papists or any Others who do or shall endeavour upon a pretence of doing God service to Seduce any of my Congregation from hearing the Publique Discourses I make unto them to shew them the Path of Life to shew them what tihey must do to be Sav'd THese are the Truths which I Edmund Elis a Minister of Jesus Christ Principally endeavour to make known to the sons of Men 1. That the good Things of this life Honours Riches c. unlesse we make use of them in the service of God are but vanity and vexation of Spirit And in no wise any more capable to satisfie or content an immortall Soul then Lime and Ashes and Cobwebs and such like Trash are to satisfie and keep in health the bodies of those persons who through the depravedness of their Appetite desire to feed on them 2. That nothing but the Enjoyment of God the Fountain of all Goodness can truly and really content an immortall Soul 3. That no man can enjoy God but he that loves Him with all his heart and with all his soul and for his sake his Nighbour as himself 4. That though every sincere Convert or Regenerate person loves God continually with his whole heart as to the Habit or Root of Holy Love Yet whilst he is in the Body he may sometimes fail of the Act or Fruit of it may offend God through the love of the Creature Which Truth so much opposed in these days is clear and manifest in the Holy Scriptures particularly in the Records of the heynous Sins of the Prophet David and Peter the Apostle 5. That the soules of the Faithfull are always growing in grace whilst they are in the Body and at the Instant of Death or separation from the Body our Lord Jesus shall present them to the Father without ●pot or blemish 6. That no man can so know God as to love him with all his heart and with all his soule but through the knowledge of Iesus Christ him crucified Who by those grievous sufferings which he endur'd when he was upon Earth made satisfaction to the Justice of God for the sins of all those that believe in His Name so that it is as consistent with the Justice as with the Mercy of God to forgive them their sins and make them Heirs of Eternall Life God is just and the Justifier of him that believeth in Jesus 7. That the ready way to receive CHRIST the onely LIGHT by which we may see the Way to Heaven or so to believe in Him that we may be saved by Him is to forsake all that we have that we may be his Disciples that is to say to take off our Affections from things on the Earth and to set them on things above where Jesus sitteth on the right hand of God putting our Trust Cōfidence in the Free Infinite mercy of God through CHRIST to be guided by him in all our wayes to be led by his good Spirit in all those wayes of GRACE and Holiness through which we must pass before we can attain to Glory Which I beseech the great God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ out of the infini●e Treasure of his love to Man-kinde in his Son Jesus to grant even to those that most wickedly revile me even to those which call me Deceiver though all my Preaching tend to this to enforce these most important Truths upon the Hearts of those that Heare me And whether or no any one that has the Spirit of Christ may not hear his Voice within him Ecchoing unto him that I may so speak the words I deliver in the Expression or Declaration of those Truths I appeal to the judgement of the onely wise God and the spirits of those men that are truly sanctified Glory be to GOD on high and on Earth peace Good will towards Menn FINIS * I am not against a grave modest discreet and humble use of Ministers gifts even in publick the better to fit and excite their owne and the peoples affections to the present occasions K CHARLS the First in his {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} * If what hath been written by this Pennington came from his heart I conceive it impossible but that he must needs Abhor that black Hellish act of Murthering our late KING of Glorious Memory and also that cursed Opinion that it may be Lawfull in some Cases for Subjects to take up Arms against their Prince
from you I have written what you see neither do I choose as you provoke me to be an Obiector but in generall I desire rather to be a Quaestionist and aske of you satisfaction to some Questions or cases about Prayer which may let you see some difficulties in your particular instance Take them thus Qu. 1. Whether the Scripture inspired by God be the only rule for Prayer as for Faith which must frame it Qu. 2. Whether in this Scripture doth appeare any precept imposing a set forme of prayer upon the Church or any practice in the Church of Christ answering such a precept Qu. 3. Whether in case the Law of God doth not impose any forme of prayer even the best upon the Church it be in the power of men to do it Qu. 4. Whether the Booke mentioned in your Letter be not so imposed by men without precept or example from God Sir in all these is not queried what may be the lawfulnesse or usefulnesse of set formes of Payer among some nor how far prudentiall good and lawfull forms may be commended but whether it be lawfull for men to impose any such formes upon Consciences that those and none but those must be used in the Church by any who are able to make use of the Scripture Directory in all cases of their addresse to God Unto these your clear answer is desired if you please before we come to a congresse about particulars wherein if you deale rationally and ingenuously I may afford a further Reply but otherwise my worke is too much for my time and I shall not spend hours vainly in such writing-contests I shall give you no worse Farewell than I had from you commending to you the Book of books from which your excellent Book hath all that is good in it Make the Scripture your rule of your Faith and Prayer and Obedience I am Sir Plim Aug. 23. 1660. Yours to serve you in the Lord GEO. HVGHES To Mr. HVGHES SIR I Thanke you for your Letter but must crave your pardon for not answering your Quaeries being impertinent to my Designe in writing to you which is To know whether or no you have any thing to object against this Position That a man may worship GOD in Spirit and in Truth in the Use of that form of Prayer for Morning and Evening which we call the Common Prayer simply considered without respect to it's being imposed c. I conceive you might easily have apprehended this to have been my Aime by the expressions of my other Letters As for the Forms for the Buriall of the Dead Baptisme c. Though I do not except against them yet because there are many expressions in them from which such Controversies may easily arise as a Spirituall Man cannot well discusse without losse of Time I shall not undertake to vindicate them unlesse provok't to it by any that professe that they are scandall'd at my using of them I have heard many men speak much against the use of the Letany if you have any thing to say against it I shall entreat you to insist on that in a particular manner For as yet I cannot apprehend any thing that can be objected against it but what may easily be resolv'd into a Phanaticke humour And I would faine know where the strength of that Opposition lies that may be made against that which I conceive may be of so great use to the Church of God As for that I said I might give you some occasion to conceive some spirituall Notions concerning Prayer c. I shall maintain the expression If your Opinion be That a man cannot pray in Faith using that form we speak of I doubt not but if I shall be able to discover to you the workings of mine own spirit mov'd by God in the use of that Forme I shall be able to do that I said I had no small confidence that I should Good Sir deal with me as 't is fit for one Christian to deale with another and avoid as much as you can all such expressions as may probably be made Instrumentall by the DEVIL to worke in me that sinfull Anger to which J am naturally inclin'd upon such Occasions as in Writing-Contests to use your own words men are apt to give one to the other But blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ with his Sons Blood J am able to Quench the Fire of that and all other Lusts as soon as J perceive it to be Kindled in me Jf you say in your heart at the Reading of this Let him that standeth take heed lest he fall I shall entreat you to pray for me that J may take heed As for my Adjuring of you J take the matter to be of so high Concernment that J did well in so doing You say reflecting upon some expressions of mine For saving Truth I trust I have received what the Gospell revealeth God forbid that J should be so Uncharitable as not to hope that you have received all the Principall Truths that concern Eternall Life but there may be some Subordinate Truths that I may so speak the Apprehension of which might make the Knowledge of the other more Intense and more Powerful in their Influence upon the Heart Such Truth I meant by that expression which you seeme not to apprehend Some Discoveries of such Truth viz. Particular Notices of the Meanes of Grace I have often received from the Discourses I have had with Experimentall CHRISTIANS though Persons of no Learning or Art of Expression and therefore S●r I do not thinke that you may justly say that I am Iuvenum Confidentissimus because I said in effect I had no small confidence that you might receive some New Apprehensions of sacred Truth from My Discourses whose greatest Study for some yeares hath been how I may set forth to others those Truths which I finde Written with the Finger of GOD upon the Table of mine owne Heart Sir That Confidence which I allow in My selfe I esteem so highly that I pray unto GOD continually to Encrease it I know no Vertue a Minister of CHRIST hath more frequent Occasion to make use of then true Confidence and strength of Spirit drawn forth into the Soule from an Apprehension that GOD is our Helper Sir I desire to approve my selfe to all Men and particularly to your selfe like Him whom we are Bound to love and imitate with all our heart and with all our soul Meek and Gentle and I hope you will shew your selfe no otherwise to Sir Your Servant EDM. ELIS. Mr. Hughes his Answer SIR YOur reply of the 4th instant I received the fifth and finding your resolution not to answer my Quaeries I cannot but in civility return these lines as a close to your Chalenge begun seeing the matter is not determined by the Respondent unto which Objection should be made for J know the hinge of the Controversie about set Forms imposed depends upon Scripture-Authority from which in this
case as in all matters of Faith J shall not depart ne hilum quidem As to what you write of other mens speaking against the Letany J shall not meddle withall nor as what you can say to other pieces of the book you mention But this I shall say if I understand what Letany is neither is the word reciprocall with your matter unto which it is prefixed nor the matter with the Word And however you say nothing can be said against it but what may easily be resolved into a Phanaticke humour I suppose if you read those Books written about this Argument of which J think you are not ignorant you may find more reason to be answered than phancy to be jeered If you seek for Objections I refer you to them As to other passages in your Letter I shall be silent lest I give you occasion to be angry Only I hope as you urge the experience of your own heart in your way of prayer to give you proof of its goodness so you will allow the experience of others in another way of praier than by book to plead for them Sir I shall make this amicable close with you as to any more writing You say my Quaeries were impertinent to your designe Truly I know not what your designe was but I am sure they were pertinent to determine the question of imposing formes of Prayer on them who have no need of them in the Church of God You say also you consider it simply without respect to its being imposed If you stand to your word I come to this issue if you argue not to impose it on the Church of God which can by Scripture directory make their addresses to God without it I shall not trouble you nor any that think your selves to stand in need of any lawfull forme of Prayer to help you Onely do not bind men to crutches whom God hath inabled to go without them I have done as to any more Letters about this matter And now commending you to the Word of Gods grace which is able to keep you and give you an inheritance among them that are sanctified I shall ever rest Plym Sep. 7. 1660. Yours to serve you in the Lord GEORGE HVGHES TO Mr. HVGHES SIR I Thank you for your last Letter but should thank you more but that I finde and expression in it which I apprehend as very Scopticall and Unfriendly That is this As to other passages in your Letter I shall be silent lest I give you occasion to be angry Sir if those passages were Evill I conceive you should be Bound in Conscience having so fair an opportunity to shew me wherein and that in such Plainnesse and Simplicity of expression as is fit to drop from the Tongue or Pen of a CHRISTIAN one that carries the Heavenly DOVE in his Bosome if they were not Evill you ought not to have such a reflexion on them as I conceive you had in the writing of that expression I must confesse a Carnall Man might easily have taken an occasion to scoffe at me if I had written to him as I did to you desiring that you would avoid all exasperating Language But Sir I take you to be a Person who know by your own Experience that it must needs be an exceeding great Trouble to any one that would alwayes Repose his Spirit in the GOD of Peace to be at any time Discompos'd though it be but by the least Act of Animosity or Indignation against any mans person and therefore that 't is not so Foolish to do or say what we can to prevent any thing by which the DEVIL may possibly frame in us a Temptation to that Sin of Anger or Roughnesse of Spirit If you wonder why I should feare that you would deale Vncivilly with me I must tell you you gave me too much reason for it in your first Letter namely by your Iuvenum Confidentissimus your so slight a matter as the sending you an Answer Your putting in these words An Able Respondent as mine though they were not to be found in any part of my Letter If I had exprest my selfe in those words the expression must have implyed a vaine boasting of mine owne Abilities whereas the expression that I used implied onely a Confidence of the Goodnesse of my Cause and the Strength that thereupon I should expect from God when ever I should in a pure and vertuous intention undertake to maintain it Sir I cannot but wonder that you should say I know not what your Designe was when I had told you what it was expresly in these words To know whether or no you have any thing to Object against this Position That a man may Worship GOD in Spirit and in Truth in the Vse of that Forme of Prayer for Morning and Evening which we call the Common-Prayer Which I told you I consider'd simply without respect to the imposing of it And I do stand to my Word But this I say that if the KING shall thinke fit to impose it by the reinforcement of that Old Act I doubt not but there will be men enough found out that shall be ready to manifest to the World the reasonablenes and the piety of such an Action but this Worke GOD hath not Call'd me unto That which I undertake is to maintain the Assertion above mentioned which I shall be ready to do God willing when ever I finde any thing like reason propos'd against it And I shall humbly entreat you to tell me what Book you would chiefly advise me to read which hath any thing in it expresly against the Letany which I take to be the best part of the Common-Prayer if any part may be said to be better then another in a Composition so entirely Excellent Alas Sir I do not stand in need of a Set Forme I thanke GOD but the generality of my Congregation do being not so ready to Apprehend extomporary Expressi●ns as I am to Deliver them Even those that are of the weakest capacities I advise to use their owne expressions when they Pray in secret * Neither do I ever confin● my selfe to a Set Forme in the Pulpit either before or after Sermon conceiving that that way of expressing my heart in Prayer which I use there may be more helpfull to the Devotion of some of my Auditory then the other and not wholly useless to the Other sort whose hearts in all probability are more wrought upon by the Other Service Sir I shall not trouble you any further concerning this business unlesse it be in vindication of what I have already written if you express those exceptions against it which you seem to imply in that saying Lest I give you occasion to be angry If you shall grant me the request above mentioned I shall take it for a great favour and shall be desirous of an opportunity to approve my selfe Sir Your thankefull servant To Mr. FORD SIR I Have reason to suspect that what has been spoken by