his went about continuaâ—lie preaching the Gospel the Pope is carrieâ— about vppon mens shoulders to shewe hâ— pride and he and his labour continuallie tâ— suppresse the Gospell Beholde how the Popâ— and his Prelates are in al things contrarie tâ— Christ so that it is in vaine to setle our faitâ— vpon them or to count them the catholikâ— church As for their vniuersal coÌ„sent wherof they boast so much what is it but as they them selues are blind so must al their priestâ— nedes lead a blind people in a blind way consenting together in this that they knowe nothing of God neither will learne anie thing therefore babble they al their church seruice in that tongue that they do not vnderstand least the people should heare the worde of God in their knowen tongue vnderstande it and beleeue it Thus are they like a sort of blind men who may easilie consent together that they see nothing And I would to God that they would confesse that they see nothing for then their sinne were pardonable but nowe they say they see with the old Pharisees therefore their sinne remaineth The Papistes consent wee graunt but against the trueth not in the trueth They consent â— the Iewes and Turkes consent to walke the blindenesse of their owne heartes â—ey speake not according to the woorde GOD therefore there is no light in â—em saieth the Prophet Esaias And as â—emie the Prophete testifieth and saieth â—at they haue reiected the worde of â—e Lorde and what wisedome canne â—e in them They knowe not God and who â—eth not knowe that all trueth must be â—ied by his holie worde They are blinde â—d knowe not GOD and in this point are â—orse then either Turkes or Iewes that â—are câ—ntrarie to his worde woorshippe â—nd serue God in Images and idolls They â—nowe not GOD that dare accompt him â—ther not perfectlie iust or not perfectlie â—ercifull These blinde Papistes say that GOD wil be satisfied and pleased with huâ—aine iustice and satisfactions whiche the Prophete Esaie doeth call menstruouse cloutes so take they from God his perfect iustice and for his mercie they say that it onelie supplieth that whiche wanteth in mans merites What a patching is this of iustice of mercie and merites Againe they say that GOD hath not set downe in his Scriptures a perfect rule to all good workes but that they must add thereto their deuises of seruing and honoring God which neuer came in his remembrance neither were euer mencioned in his holie word wherin they must either make God not perfect in wisedome but ignorant of such things or not perfect in loue that would not declare such necessarie pointes vnto vs and so by their doctrine his infinit wisdome and infinit loue is denied whereby in effect they doe denie him to be god Againe these poore blind papistes know not Christ nor the scriptures wheÌ„ they make him a body infinit that may be in many places in heauen in earth and in ten thousand places at once where the scriptures do plainlie teach vs That he would not take the nature of Angels but our humaine nature and became like vs in all thinges sinne only excepted and that the heauens must conteine him vntill the time that all things be restored They know not Christ to be the onlie Mediatour of intercession and redemption the onelie Priest that prayeth and sacrificeth for sinnes our onelie King and Prophet for they teach the cleane contrarie They knowledge none of these offices of Christ to beloÌ„g to him alone but giue the power thereof to other creatures Therefore are they but onelie by name Christians â—ow may we saffelie ioyne to such a church â—hirdlie they knowe not the holy Ghost to be the only satisficer and certifier of the conscience they haue so manie other satisfactions and certificates of their owne deuises and so â—â—nie that a man can be certaine of his saluation by the spirit of god They knowe not that the whole Scripture is giuen by the Spirit of God is profitable to teach to improue to correct to instruct in righteousnesse that the maÌ„ of God may be made perfect to all good works But being led with a contrarie spirit eueÌ„ the spirit of errour as Paule saith they doe teach the doctrine of diuels forbidding meates and forbidding to marrie Thus the papistes in their doctrine erring in the principal articles of our Christian faith as also in their other commaundements cannot be the true Catholike church As for their outward forme of gouernement wherevpon they do so much boast let all men consider what it is They neither haue the names nor the offices nor the discipline appointed by Christe and his Apostles or practised in the primatiue Church Christe our sauiour commaunded his twelue Apostles to publish the Gospell the which these men labour to suppresse As for their discipline and gouernement in their courtes it is not to suppresse sinne but by feeding vppon the sinnes of the people to make them selues fat and riche They call their Courtes spirituall but they be carnall earthlie and diuelish Their suspensions excommunications and absolutions for monie Their dispensations for marriage quarter sermons are all for monie All sinnes in that court may be bought and solde for monie What haue they nowe to boast of when they neither haue the right order of gouernement neither reteine the right offices functions nor so much as the names allowed in the scriptures As for vs whom they accompt so coÌ„temptible we confirme the antiquitie and succession of the church from Christ his Apostles because we teach the selfe same doctrine and none other but that which we receiued of them which is written in the old and newe Testaments This is the succession which God him selfe promised to remaine for euer My words which I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy lippes nor out of the mouth of thy seede for euer saith the Lord so that wee may iustly approue our succession in the word and the sacraments which are the chief markes of the church Neither vse we as they do anie moe sacraments then Christ him selfe ordeined As for the names of our officers we cal them the ministers of Christ or like names according to the scriptures and they do the offices appointed by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles And we vse when we may do require alwayes that discipline that our maister Christ taught his Apostles practised to wit first brotherlie admonition in priuate then before some others afterwards if there be no repentance to tell the church last of all if the offender doe remaine obstinate to excommunicate from the sacrameÌ„ts Loe in fewe wordes the names the offices and our church gouernement we vse all grounded vpon Gods holy word not vpon the phantasies of men as yours is O ye Papistes repent therfore imagine no more such motiues subtile questions least your shame
this parte You aske moreouer whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie I beseeche you examine well the doctrine of the Protestants and compare it with the doctrine of Christ of the Apostles of the primitiue churche and with the religion set foorth by the godlie writers whiche wrote about the time of Constantine or shortly after And if you can proue that we doe not in al pointes agree with the religion of Christ of the apostles as it is set down in the old and new Testament Choose what translation you will or that we consent not in all thinges concerning faith and the substance of the true doctrine which the auncient fathers as appeareth in their bookes a few erroures by them mainteined onelie excepted then wee will willingly yeelde 〈◊〉 you As for example I will note a fewe capitall pointes of religion because I will not wander in generalities First we confesse with them one waye to â—e iustified and saued by which is by â—â—â— free mercies of God graunted vs by thâ— onely death passioÌ„ of Christ our onely Lord and Sauiour and that faith is the onely meanes and instrument to apprehend this our iustification and saluation That Christ is our Mediator both of redemption and intercession that we ought â—â— pray onely vnto God not to anie Saints â—â— parted and that in the name of Christ and not in the name of anie Angell or â—â—int whatsoeuer To praye for those that be aliue and not for those which bee deade That in the Lordes Supper according to his institution we doo spirituâ—â—ly by faith feed vpon the body of Christ and that Sacrament truely and faithfully receiued as the remembraunce of the â—eath and passion of Christ is a spirituall foode and sustenaunce vnto our soules and a pledge of eternall life to satisfie our consciences We say further that Christ his naturall body fleshe blood and bone is noâ— in the Sacrament vnder the fourme of breade it being onely in heauen on the right hand of God according to the articles of our faith where in body he shall remaine vntill the day of iudgement though Christ our Sauiour as he is God in his diuine nature filleth all places and is with his children powring daily the abundance of his graces vpon them Lastly we say that man hath no free will of himselfe to doo anie good thing no not anie good thought but that it is God that worketh in vs both the will and also the deede according to his good pleasure euen of his free grace If you will either giue eare to the doctrine which we do preach or peruse the bookes which wee haue and doe write you shall see that the Protestantes did neuer vary one ynch from these pointes of true religion which I haue recited But because you make mencion of a knowne catholike Church it behoueth for that an Harlot may haue the countenaunce of an honest woman to distinguish betwixt the true church of God the counterfeit Church and to shew howe they both may be discerned and knowne Wee must needes auouch with the holy spirit of God that the true Church of Christ being the congregation and companie of the faithfull dispersed ouer the face of the whole earth is discerned and knowen by the woord of God For the true Sheepe doo heare the voice of their Pastor Christ Neither is there anie other signe or marke to knowe the Church of God sauing onely the Scriptures of God which are the treasurie of all truth For the citie of the Saintes and houshold of God as the Apostle saith is builded vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe Corner stone So then that is the true Catholike Church consecrated a spirituall Temple 〈◊〉 God which is guided and ruled by the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Therefore the Church of God is called the Spouse of Christ for that shee ought in al â—inges to harken vnto the voyce of the â—idegroome In like manner the church â— as a piller which the Lord God hath â— in the earth amongst men therein so to little his truth that all stormes and Tempests euen the gates of hell and all the fernall powers fighting against it yet shâ— they not preuaile because shee stayeth â— selfe onely vppon the woord of God aâ— thereby stayeth others and therefore a gâ—ly father saith The piller and strength â— the Church is the Gospel and the spiâ— of lyfe Likewise Saint Agustine saâ—ther be certain books of our Lord vnâ— the authoritie whereof ech part agreeth there let vs seeke for the Church therbâ— let vs examine and try our matters An in the same Chapter I will saieth hee haue you to shew me the church not bâ— the doctrines of men but by the woorâ— of God. Saint Chrisostome saith it cannot by any means be known what is the true church but only by the scriptures â–ª what the counterfeit Church is it appereth by the promisses truely euen that Church which consisteth onely in outwarde shewe challenging authoritie ouer the woord and spirit of God prescribing a rule of woorshiping of God by her owne deuise without anie warrant of the woord of GOD which deuiseth other meanes to be saued by then onely Christ which feigneth that her faith can neuer faile notwithstanding â—â—e neuer aspired vnto the true faith of Christ but hath persecuted the same keeping the sonne of righteousnesse as vnder â—â—â—ile or cloud not suffering him to shine in simple mens mindes and hartes by his holye Scriptures which are the keyes of knowledge the very power of God to saluation to as many as beleeue If we caÌ„not vnderstaÌ„d the scriptures the fault is in vs and not in them As no man may coÌ„demne the brightnes of the sonne because his eye is not able to sustaine the clearenes therof so the hardnes of the mistery which we can not sometimes coÌ„passe or perfectly vnderstand in the scriptures ought not to take away froÌ„ vs the vse of the scriptures Now â—â—â—ing you depende much vppon the aunciâ—â—â— doctors fathers I purpose for the satisfying of the reader to knit vp this diffeâ—â—â—ce betwixt the church of God and the counterfeite Synagogue of Sathan with these woords of S. Augustine Whether they haue the church or no let theÌ„ shew â— the Canonicall bookes of the holy â—riptures we must knowe the Church of â—hrist euen as we likewise know Christ â—hich is the head of the church in the caâ—nical scriptures And what can be more â—laine then that which is spoken by the Euangelist Iohn disseuering the tâ—â—â— Church from the false the true Christiaâ— from hipocrices and the faithful ministeâ— and preachers of the Gospell from faâ— prophets and counterfeit teachers in thâ— fewe woordes Hereby shall ye knoâ— the spirit of God euery spirit which câ—fesseth that Iesus Christ is come in thâ— flesh is of
whatsoeuer God him selfe can doo For in name you giue him no lesse prerogatiue Dominus Deus noster Papa Our Lord God the Pope We say that wee are iustified freely by Gods speciall grace and mercie offered in Christ and that faith is the instrument to apprehend this our iustification and so saith the Apostle Ye are saued by grace and that through faith not of our selues it is the gift of god not of workes least any man should reioyce And againe Abraham beleeued God and it was couÌ„ted to him for righteousnesse You say that we are iustified by our owne works yea and that we haue workes more then wee neede which you call woorkes of supererogation or superfluous woorkes We say that we must confesse our sinnes onely vnto God and so saith Dauid I will confesse euen against mine owne selfe mine vnrighteousnesse vnto the Lorde You say That wee muste confesse our sinnes to the prieste and receiue absolution at his handes And this you call Auricular confession We say that the people of God be they neuer so simple or vnlearned ought to haue the vse of the scriptures of GOD in their knowne tongue and both heare them and reade them So Christ biddeth al men To search the scriptures Dauid sayeth That they are a light to our feete Saint Paule saith That whatsoeuer thinges are written they be written for our learnin and eugery scripture sent from God is profitable to teach to instructe to reprooue and to exhort that the man of God may be perfect prepared to euery good woorke He saith further Let the woord of God dwell in you aboundantly Wherevppon Saint Hierome noteth That euen the Leye peoshoulde reade the Scriptures and teache and admonish one an other Your church saieth That the vnlearned people ought not to haue the Scriptures in their vulgar toung that they are hard and full of difficulties We say that no Images are to bee brought into the Temple of God or to bee woorshipped God hath forbidden it by expresse commaundementes â—oth the making and the woorshipping God curseth â—oth the maker thereof the toole that â—eth it and him also that worshippeth â—t Christ saith Thou shalt woorship the â—ord thy God and him onely shalt thou â—erue The Apostle saith that Idolaters â—all haue no inheritance with Christ and â—ith God. The Angell of God refuseth â— be woorshipped and saith moreouer â—oorship God. You say that images are to bee made at they oughte to bee placed in the temâ—es that they are to bee worshipped and that they are the Laie mens bookes yea and that not onely images of Saints departed but also of Christe and of GOD himselfe whiche image of God you set foorth in the similitude of an old aged man hauing a loÌ„g gray beard and a hoare head albeit God hath geuen a straighte charge to the contrarie And Christe saith that no man hath seene God at anie time but the onely begotten sonne of God. Saint Augustine saith That it is abhominable to set anie suche picture in the Churches of Christians If a man had come into anie of your Churches in times past and had vsed your images as Epiphanius a godlie writer did vse the like long sithens you woulde haue cursed him with bell booke and candell and woulde haue burned him to ashes in the ende I will repeate the wordes conteined in an Epistle which Epiphanius did write vnto the Byshoppe of Hierusalem whiche be these I founde saith he a vaile hanging at the entrie of the Churche stained and painted and hauing the Image as it were of Christe or of some Saint for whose picture it was in deede I do not remember Therefore when I sawe the image of a man to hang in the Churche of Christe contrarie to the commaundement of the Scriptures I toare it in sonder and gaue councell to the wardens of the Churche that they should winde and burie some poore bodie in it c. â— beseech you charge the Priestes of that place that they commaunde that suche â—ailes as be contrarie to our religion be â—o more hanged vp in the Churche of Christe it behoueth your reuerence to â—aue care hereof that this superstition â—nmeete for the Church of Christ and â—nmeete for the people which be committed vnto you be remoued I might â—ande long in displaying and manifesting â—he erroures superstitious trifles of your Churche of Rome not onelie in secrete â—ractises and deuises moste expressely aâ—ainst God and his truth but also euen in matters of faith and in the principles of â—rue religion how farre you disagree from Christe and his Gospell and from all â—odlie writers of auncient time But these â—ay serue for a taste sauing that I will â—peake one worde of your Popes greate â—hallenge We say that all men of what calling soeuer they bee oughte to yeeld their obedience vnto suche as are in aucthoritie Christ our Sauiour paied tribute he sayed Giue vnto Caesar that whiche is due vnto Caesar Saint Paule sayeth Let euery soule be subiect vnto the higher powers for there is no power but of GOD whosoeuer therefore resisteth the power resisteth th' ordinauÌ„ce of god Saint Chrisostome vpon these wordes saieth Although thou be an Apostle although thou be an Euangelist although thou be a Prophete or whosoeuer thou arte for this subiection doth not ouerthrowe godlinesse and he doeth not say simplie let him obey but let him be subiect And Theophilacte writing vpon the same place sayeth That the Apostle teacheth al men whether he be a priest or Monke or Apostle that he be subiect vnto Princes Your Churche doeth challenge this aucthoritie from Peter to be aboue Kinges and Emperoures which also you say Peter receiued from Christe For these be the verie words of Pope Nicholas Christ saieth he hath giuen to blessed Peter the righte as well of the â—orldly as also of the heauenly Emâ—yre Wherevpon you grounde these arâ—ments The Sonne is higher and greaâ—r then the Moone Therefore the â—ope is higher and greater then the â—mperour The soule is aboue the boâ—e therefore the pope is aboue the â—mperour Thus you take vpon you not â—elie to haue the superioritie ouer Emâ—erours but also to put them forth of their â—ates and to remoue the Empire at your â—easure And thus did Pope Adrian write â—to Frederike the Emperour My seate â—saith he is in the citie of Rome The â—mperoures seate is at Acon in Arden which is a Forest in Fraunce Whatsoâ—uer the Emperour hath hee hath it of â—s as pope Zacharias traÌ„slated the Emâ—ire from Graecia into Germany So â—ay we againe translate the same from â—e Germanes to the Greekes Behold â— is in our power to bestowe the Emâ—ire vpon whom we liste But note how â—he writinges of Saint Peter doe agree â—ith this proud popish stile Submit your â—elues saith Peter vnto all manner orâ—inaunces of man for the Lords sake Whether it be vnto
AN Ansvvere made by Oliuer Carter Bacheler of Diuinitie Vnto certaine Popish Questions and Demaundes 1. Cor. 11. Be ye followers of me euen as I am of CHRIST ¶ Imprinted at London for George Bishop 1579. To the right Honourable and his verie good Lorde Henrie Earle of Darbie Lord Stanley and Strange Lord of Man and of the Isles adioyning and Knight of the most noble Order of the Garter Oliuer Carter wisheth continuance of health with increase of honor COnsidering right Honourable the brittle and fraile state of mans life beeing subiect not only vnto manifold miseries by naturall inclinatioÌ„ but also in continual daunger and ieopardie through the assaultes of Sathan sinister practises of his vngodly meÌ„bers I thinke it the part of all the childreÌ„ of God so much the more to imploye all their trauell both for the reclaiming of these decayed affections in man also for the suppressing and beating downe by all meanes possible all wicked sinfull attempts whereby Gods glorie may be hindered And although I amongest manie am most vnmeete both for want of knowledge and lacke of experience to take anie such enterprise in hande yet for satisfying the expectation of a godlie learned friend as also for the comfort of my poore neighbours whome I perceiue to bee ouer much seduced the more it is to bee lamented by these and such like Popish deuises and thereby not so willing to yeeld their dutifull and loyall submission to God and to their most Noble vertuous and godlie Soueraigne as most especiallie for the aduancement of Gods honour and increase of Christes kingdome If his heauenlie wisedome thinke good to worke by such simple meanes I haue thought good at the least to bestowe my labour referring the successe thereof wholie and onelie vnto god I am giuen to vnderstande and I do partlie know it for trueth that these Interrogations Questions inuented by some papist be secretlie spredde abroad in sundrie places And albeit I doe certainlie knowe what great care and paines godlie Magistrates for their partes do take to aduance and extoll the true seruice and worship of God to further the free passage of his most holie woord and Gospell to suppresse the rage of such as do obstinatelie and stubburnlie resist the trueth yet notwithstanding there be not onelie close and secret enimies which wander abroad in corners seducing the simple by wicked doctrine sedicious traiterous libells and false tales alienating their mindes by all meanes from true religion vnto superstition but also the rabble of the Romishe merchantes with their masking wares do so increase and multiplie that vnlesse redresse bee had in time I do feare least great inconuenience and mischiefe will ensue thereof For partlie by these Popish whisperers and partlie for lacke of true and faithfull Teachers shippewracke is made of the Gospell of Christ I do not wishe their punishment but desire their reformation for my conscience beareth me witnesse howe earnestlie for my part I haue laboured to reduce them where I haue had charge from the grosse errours in exercising that small talent which GOD of his goodnesse hath bestowed vpon me and what inward loue I doe beare vnto them if I were able to doe them good Neuerthelesse I cannot but lament their miserable state perceiuing in theÌ„ such a readinesse to imbrace euerie fonde idolatrous tradition inuented by man to accept the aduise and counsell of euerie ignoraÌ„t lurking rebellious priest to persist in their old doating customes and heathenishe ceremonies and such slacknesse or rather dulnesse to receiue the vndoubted trueth of Gods most holie worde whiche is the verie pathwaye to Christes eternal kingdome and the power of God vnto saluation to all that beleeue But it is not my purpose to make anie long discourse of these matters Onlie I beseech your Honor to pardon my bolde enterprise in presenting this litle Answere vnto you and to accept my good will herein in good part So you shall not onelie incourage me if the like occasion bee offered to take greater paynes hereafter but also binde mee daily to pray vnto GOD for your Honor that all your actions may tende to the honour and glorie of GOD and to the discharging of that office and function which God hath called you vnto which God graunt for his mercie sake To whom bee all prayse dominion and power now and for euer Your Honors Oliuer Carter To the Papist which made this offer and chalenge WHeras you may seme vnto the simple and vnlearned in this your offer which you haue spred abroade in sundrie places to haue made a bold large chalenge for the proofe of your Romish church and in defence of your religion yet it is night no longer then vntill the day doeth spring for light expelleth darkenesse Though golde be of all metalles most precious though the Diamond Saphyr and Margarite bee stones of great value and price yet truth passeth and surmounteth all these and carieth away the bell without comparison Things which often seeme precious haue a resemblance and shew of goodnesse may be but couÌ„terfeite and faultie and haue neede of the touchstone or furnace neuerthelesse the veritie and trueth canne not dissemble she can not glosse she putteth on no vizard nor vseth anie colouring And albeit falsehood may oftentimes blinde the trueth as an harlot may appeare in apparell to bee an honest matron a theefe beare the countenance of a true man and the diuell chaunge him selfe into the shape of an Angell of light yet in continuance of time golde wil be seuered from drosse the darnell from the fine wheate and trueth from falsehood For trueth is great and preuaileth Dagon is not able to stand before the Arke of the Lorde But for that you affirme the trueth to be on your side and wee perswade our selues in like manner that we holde the trueth let vs not bee our owne iudges but obserue that order rule set downe by our Sauiour Christ for the triall of these controuersies Christ Iesus biddeth vs to searche the Scriptures for there is life euerlasting and they are they which testifie of him which is the trueth it selfe And againe he prayeth his father to sanctifie in the trueth those whome hee had chosen in renuing their mindes with his heauenlie grace that they might seeke his will set foorth in his worde which worde saieth hee is the trueth This is that word against which wee may â—ot heare an Angell though he come from heauen as the Apostle saieth Whiche wordes the godlie father Chrisostome expoundeth thus Saint Paul saith not â—f they teache the contrarie or if they oâ—erthrowe the whole Gospell but hee â—aith If they preache anie little or small â—hing besides the Gospell that ye haue â—eceiued or if they loose or shake down anie thing whatsouer it be accursed be â—hey Saint Augustin saith If an Angel from heauen preache vnto you anie other thing than you haue receiued in the
tongue of your crouching before idolles of the placing of the saide idolls in your Churches of your worshippe done vnto them of your pilgrimages of the supremacie of your holie father the Pope of your vnwritten verities and of all the rabble of your ceremonies ordinances and traditions whiche haue no warrant of Gods worde in whiche you repose saluation and by whiche you greatlie deceiue Gods people Will not the Lorde call you to an accompt for abusing and deceiuing thus his people in giuing them darnell and chaffe for wheate in feeding them with your owne inuentions without anie warrant or authoritie of Gods worde Hath not GOD set downe a platforme in his holie Scriptures howe hee wil be worshipped and serued commaunding That you shall neither adde nor diminishe turne â—either to the right hande nor to the lefte but syncerelie to walke in the wayes of the Lorde And hath threatened moreouer That if anie man shall adde vnto the things whiche bee written GOD shall adde vnto him the plagues that bee written And if anie man shall diminishe from the wordes of GOD his part shal be taken awaie out of the booke of life But either sufficient is spoken â—r inough will not serue Onelie this â—hing I require of you that you will â—ot take in ill parte whatsoeuer I â—aue written the Lorde is my witâ—esse that I haue not beene mooued herevnto either of malice or of vaine â—lorie neither haue I written or set â—owne anie doctrine but onelie that â—hich in my conscience as I shall answere at the dreadfull daye of iudgement I am perswaded to bee the verie â—ueth If you thinke that I haue not â—llie absolutely answered your Interrogations and Demaundes which you haue set downe so diffusedlie and out of order repeating some one thing often and in heaping one vppon another without anie reason or iudgement in charging vs and laying those heresies to our charge whiche wee are so farre from mainteining of them as that wee do vtterlie abhorre detest yea flatlie condemne them I would haue â—ou to note and plainlie sette downe in what thinges I haue failed or what thinges I haue omitted or in what you bee not fullie resolued and I not to haue sufficientlie aunswered you For I am most willing according to that small talent and gift whiche God hath of his goodnesse bestowed vppon mee to imploye my trauell and spende my time in this kinde of exercise Let vs ioyne together in building God his Church for that manie soules bee in daunger by reason of controuersies and contentions whiche bee betwixt vs in that they halte as they did in the time of Elias the Prophete betwixt two opinions doubting what way were best to take Let vs seeke to aduaunce Gods worshippe which is spirituall and must bee done in spirit and trueth GOD is dishonoured either when wee woorshippe anie other then him alone giuing his honor to anie other creature or when wee giue him not that honor whiche hee requireth of vs in his sacred and holie worde or woorshippe him otherwise than hee appointeth The Lord graunt you a penitent hart indue you with true and perfect knowledge that you may seeke the sauing of your owne soule the profitte of Gods â—urch and Congregation and the adâ—ncement of his kingdome that â—h one heart and one minde wee â—y worshippe and serue GOD the â—her and his Sonne Iesus Christ in â—irit and trueth To whom with the holie Spirit three persons and one inuisible and immortall God be all glorie nowe and euer Anthonie Gilbie vnto the Reader THE miserable Iewes and proud Papistes are both alike deceiued by these and such like carnal cogitatioÌ„s as appeares in these popishe questions The Iewes will 〈◊〉 haue an earthlie Messias to whom all â—â—â—s shal be in subiection corporallie viâ—â—â— or else they wil haue none The Papists will haue an earthlie church visible kingdome of the same Messias to the which al nations â—halbe subiect or else they wil haue none 〈◊〉 poore Christ and his persecuted church â—espised of both twaine The Iewes will 〈◊〉 of this poore Nazarite for their king 〈◊〉 â—apists will not haue his contemptible 〈◊〉 to be their church The Papists boast â—â—â—ir antiquitie and succession but the â—â—â—s if that wold serue haue better cause â—ast of both for their antiquitie is farre â—â—â—ter by manie huÌ„dred yeres their sucâ—â—â—on is alowed in the scriptures but the 〈◊〉 is successour in nothing saue in that â—â—â—er deâ—â—ed his maister or when as hee 〈◊〉 Christ carnall worldlie counsell not to suffer but to spare him selfe Otherwayâ— he succeedeth not Peter I say neither â— place nor in doctrine neither in forme of gâ—uernemeÌ„t nor in maner of liuing so that tâ— popish church canne in no wise bee the trâ— church of Christ as may easilie bee proueâ— The papistes talke of Fathers and of coâ—sent but what is that without the warraâ— of Gods word The papistes will not be of tâ— contemptible church they say that is despâ—sed in the world Christ saith that his churâ— must be so They shall deliuer you vp â— be afflicted and shall kill you and yoâ— shal be hated of al nations for my namâ— sake Againe he saith If the worlde haâ— you knowe that it hated mee before hated you if ye were of the worlde thâ— world would loue his own but becauâ— you are not of the world but I haue châ—sen you out of the world therefore thâ— world hateth you Remember the worâ— that I said vnto you The seruaunt is nâ— greater then his maister If they hauâ— persecuted me they will persecute yoâ— also These things haue I said vnto yoâ— that you should not bee offended Theâ— shall excommunicate you yea the timâ— will come that whosoeuer killeth youâ— I thinke that he doeth God seruice â— this is the state of the true churche here â—n earth whereby it is euident that the â—she Romishe Synagogue is not the true â—rch seeing it is so â–ª loued and honored in worlde Christ the head of the true â—rch went vp into heauen by manifolde â—ctions his members the Prophetes and â—ostles entred by the same doore of afflicâ—s not by the windowe of promotions â—d holie Paule affirmeth That whosoeâ—r will liue godlie in Christ Iesus must â—fer persecutions That our faith being â—d like golde in the furnace as Peter â—th might be found precious Thereâ—re Christ and his Apostles are poore in â—is world and like seruants readie to serue â—ers the Pope and his Prelates like worldâ—e Princes rich wealthie and lordlie Christ â—d his humble and lowlie the Pope his â—oude pompeous and haultie Christ his â—aied tribute to Caesar the Pope his take Peter pence and other payments froÌ„ Princes and nations Christ and his suffered humblie afflictions vnder Princes the Pope warreth against Princes treadeth on their neckes causeth them to kisse his pantaphles and to hold his stirrops like a Lucifer and childe of pride Christ and
God euery spirit which câ—fesseth not Iesus Christ to haue come â— the flesh is not of God wherfore the samâ— is not of God which denieth either the dâ—uine or humaine nature of Christ and tâ— true vniting of them both or derogateth any thing from the office of Christ beeingâ— king who onely hath all spirituall rule anâ— authoritie committed vnto him beeing Prophet who onely is appointed to delâ—uer vnto vs his fathers minde and willâ— and to teach vs all truth being a Priestâ— who hath offered a sweete smelling Sacrifice for vs vnto God the father euen his owne body vppon the Crosse once for all which onely Sacrifice is of force and value to purge and clense the sinnes of all those that beleeue But who be they which denie Christ in person or in office â–ª euen that Church that woulde haue Christ as hee is â—n to be in any other shape fourme then that which he receiued of the virgin Ma 〈◊〉 in sundry places at one time contrary the nature of a true body or affirmeth â—at mankinde lost through Adams fal and ansâ—ression could be saued by any other leaâ—es then onely by Christ whether it be â—y mans merits and works or by the parâ—ons and indulgences of the Pope or by â—nie other deuise of man Finally that Church which teacheth anie other mediaâ—â—â— betwixt God and man either of reâ—emption or intercession then onely Christ â—he same Church denieth Christ to haue â—ome in the flesh and therefore is not the 〈◊〉 Church of god The bare name or title of the Church is not sufficient but as gold is tried by the Touchstone so we must prooue the Church by the woorde of 〈◊〉 which is the Touchstone of all truth This Church by the preaching of the Gospell by the Lodestarre of Christ his holy â—ord hath from time to time brought the â—le of God from Gentilitie from Iuâ—me from the grosse Idolatrie whiche â— haue vsed in your Church and from â— darke dungeon of ignorance and blindnes into the cleare light shining brightnes of true knowledge Yea this same râ—ligion and doctrine which nowe we dâ— teach was deliuered first by Iesus Chriâ— vnto the Apostles then preached by them afterwardes yet not without bloodshed taught from time to time for the space â— sixe hundred yeares as the writings of aâ— the auncient Fathers doo witnesseâ— and so forwarde vntill by little and little your superstitious patched religion increased by fire and Fagot and other extremâ— tortures and cruelties These thinges being manifest I tendering your saluation â— which doo call your â—elfe a Catholik or Papiste doo most earnestly admonish you that according vnto your promise yoâ— would yeeld your self vnto the eternal God who knoweth all secrets and abhorreth all hipocrisie Let Christ Iesus by the scepter of his woorde rule your conscience and direct your hart in his trueth suffer the holy spirit of God to instill the sweete tast of Gods holy woord into your minde that you may hate your owne ignorance and blindenesse and study to attaine the true light and to bee guided by the motions of the same comfortable spirit of God which the Lord graunt to you for his Christs sake Papist Aske of him what Church it was which â— hath induced the Christian people thoâ—row out the whole worlde to giue most â— humble credit in all pointes to the holy â—â—â—kes of the Byble what Church hath had 〈◊〉 discerning and seuering them from oâ—â—â— writinges of all sortes what Churche â—â—th had the custody of them and most safeâ—â— hath preserued them for the necessarie vse of Gods people and from the corruption of aduersaries aswell Iewes as Heretiks of all sortes and let the Protestant declare vnto me that this congregation hath had from time to time or euer had any right herein â—â— anie other Church sauing the catholike Church and I recante Answeare I Do merueile with what face you can â—rrogate vnto your Church that you haue moued the people throughout the â—orlde to giue credit vnto the scriptures 〈◊〉 that your Church hath deterred the â—â—â—ople from reading them affirminge â—â—â—m to be harde and difficult daungeâ—â—â—us to the simple and vnlearned a nose 〈◊〉 waxe a shippmans hose a dead letter and either of enuie vnto the poore souâ— whom you call dogges and hogges aâ— sing this text giue not that which is hâ— vnto dogges or of hate vnto the scripturâ— you haue kept the key knowledge whâ— is the holy woorde of God vnder a vaâ— in an vnknowne tounge fearinge aâ— iudge lest the misty cloudes of your persticious deuises would vanish awâ— if the bright beames of Christ his Gâ—pell might shine in simple mens mindâ— What humble credite do you giue vnto Scriptures seing that one of the pillerâ— your Church saieth That the Scripturâ— are not autenticall or of credite bâ— onelie by the warrant and aucthoriâ— of your Churche of Rome an other your Doctoures hath these woordeâ— The Apostles saith he when they deliuâ—red the Creed neuer said I beleue tâ— holy Byble or the holy Gospel but the saide I beleeue the holy Churche Aâ— likewise in an other place he saith â— any man haue the exposition of thâ— Church of Rome touchinge any placâ— of the Scriptures although he neitheâ— knowe nor vnderstand whether or howâ— it agreeth with the wordes of the Scriptures yet he hath the very word of God. â—nd how doubtful vncertain al your inâ—â—â—pretations be Cusanus a Cardinall 〈◊〉 the Churche of Rome sheweth It 〈◊〉 no meruaile saith he though the practise of the Churche expounde the â—â—â—iptures at one time one way and at â—â—â—other time another way For the vnderâ—â—â—nding or the sence of the scriptures runâ—â—â—h with the practise and that sence so agreeinge with the practise is the quicâ—â—ninge spirite And therefore the scripâ—â—res followe the Churche but contraâ—iewise the Churche followeth not the Scriptures And whereas in verie â—eede the scriptures be the light that geâ—â—â—th sight to the blinde and rightly called 〈◊〉 candle whereby the theefe is taken the truth which doeth disclose all errours 〈◊〉 rule to square and frame mans lyfe 〈◊〉 power of God vnto saluation I muse â—â—â—uely howe you daâ—â— presume to keepe his hid treasure from Gods inheritance â—nd yet preteÌ„d that you do perswade them â—â—â—stantly to giue most humble credit thereâ—â—â—to And forsomuche as you do challeng â—â—â—e discerning seuering the Scriptures â—â—â—om other writinges of all sortes you haue in verie deed not onely corrupted the trâ— sense of the Bible but also abased the authoritie of the scriptures and haue madâ— equall or rather preferred your owne decrees and constitutions before the holâ— Bible the errours in your old translatioÌ„ oâ— the Bible which you falsly ascribe vntâ— S. Ierome be so manifest so grosse thaâ— euery childe may easily espy them as iâ— the third chapter of Genesis these wordeâ— are to be found Ipsa conteret caput tuuâ— She shall breake
thy heade meaning thâ— woman Which text the Louanistes woulâ— seeme to reforme do put in ipse referring it to Christ You may see into what miseries you woulde bring vs to haue vs to beleue that the Virgin Marie should brusâ— the Serpents head whereas the words are to be vnderstanded of the seede of the woman Likewise in the Epistle vnto the Corinthians your olde translation hath these wordes Omnes quideÌ„ resurgemus â–ª sed non omnes imutabimur Wee shall all rise againe but wee shall not all be changed Which words be vntruely translated for all shall not rise againe because that at Christes comming some shall be founde aliue yet neuerthelesse All must be chaunged and this corruptible flesh must put on corruptioÌ„ But you wil perhaps say that the fault is not in the translation but in the Printer Why then hath your Church suffered the same translation to haue beene printed so often and hath not corrected these faultes Nay why with your Tridentine generall councell precisely say Let no man be so bolde or presume by any manner of colour to refuse the old common translation of the Bible To conclude you persuade the world if you haue authoritie not onely to allowe what translation ye list but also as your owne Canonistes doe auouch that the Pope the heade of your Church can at 〈◊〉 pleasure dispense against the Lawe of God against the Lawe of nature against the Apostles against all the commaundements of the olde and newe Testament That hee is Christes Lieftetenaunt not onely ouer thinges in heauen ouer thinges in earth and ouer things â—â— hell but also ouer the angels both good and badde whereas the true Church of God hath not at any time made her selfe â—â—udge ouer the worde and lawe of God 〈◊〉 alwaies hath vsed subiection vnto the â—â—â—e grounding all her religion and faith â—â—on the same worde And this you must needes confesse vnlesse you will denie a knowen trueth that we whose religion you doe so vehemently withstande haue alwayes perswaded the people not to beleeue vs one iotte further then we bring the woorde of God for our warrant And whereas you further enquire what Church hath had the custodie of the Bible and hath most safely preserued it I must needes say that God of his singuler mercie towardes his Churche by his diuine prouidence hath alwayes preserued his woorde to the comforte of his children as he preserued Elias in the wildernesse Daniel in the Lions denne the three children in the fornace Howe I pray you hath the Byble bene preserued by your Churche sith the whole worlde can testifie howe you haue burned the olde and newe Testament whiche thing is yet freshe in mans memorieâ— Did not Cutbert Tunstall being then Bishop of London cause the newe Testament to be burned at Pawles crosse in London as your Churche learned of Iehoakim king of Iuda who threw the boke which the Prophete Ieremie by Goddes commaundement had indited conteining the wrath of God against Iuda into the fier But you will say the Testamentes were falselie and vntrulie translated and therefore were burned If that had beene the cause it had bene your partes rather to haue disclosed and quoated forth the erroures and to haue amended the faultes Doeth the mother cast away the milke wherewith the children shoulde be nourished for that sometimes motes doe fall into it but rather culleth forth the moates giueth the Milke to the children euen so you ought to haue done What faultes were I beseech you in that translation you neuer noted anie if there had bene as indeede there were none why haue not you set forth a better what doctour of your Churche or fauorer of your Romishe Religion hath written in whose workes can not be found some errour yet we burned them not but are content to giue them the readinge and do reuerence them so farre as they agree with Gods truthe Further if â—n Angell should speake or write we ought not to beleue him Iudge you nowe laying away all affection whether your Church â—â— ours doe better esteme of the Bible or â—â— the better preserue the same Papist SHew me why our common knowen church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion contained in the same Shewe me why she kepte not as trulie and as faithfully the true sense of Gods woorde as she preserued the worde it selfe Shewe me why we shoulde beleeue the Papistes as ye tearme them for the worde it selfe and yet we shoulde beleeue you Protestantes for the meaning of the worde rather than them Shewe me why you beleeued our Churche telling you this to be Gods booke and will not credite her aduouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke and last of all shewe me why you beleeued the elder knowen Churche affirming this to be the word and doe not beleeue her affirming Luther to be an Heretike Shewe me good reason or Scripture for these poyntes and I recant Answeare YF you meane by your common knowen Churche the Churche of Rome as you will easily assent therevnto then your Church is more common than true For triall whereof it is plaine and that by Saint Barnarde that the pastoures of your Churche of Rome keepe not the spouse of God whiche is his Churche but they destroy her They keepe not the flock but they kill and deuoure And one whiche writeth of your Church in that great and solemne assemblie at Constance saieth They did quenche the spirite they did dispise the voice of the prophetes they persecuted Christ in his members and it was altogether a persecuting churche Barnard in an other place likewise crieth out O miserable Rome which in the time of our Elders hast brought foorth the lightes of worthie Fathers but in our dayes hast brought forth the monstruous darkenes shamefull and slanderous to the time to come An other calleth Rome a schoole of errour a temple of heresie And your old friend Thomas Becket whome you haue canonized for a Saint saith Our holy mother of Rome is become an harlot and hath prostituted her self that is hath set her selfe open to euerie man for reward And what neede we goe farre one of your owne nest in the late councell of Trent sheweth his iudgement of your Churche of Rome They haue brought to passe saieth he that godlinesse is turned into hypocrisie and that the sauoure of life is turned into the sauour of death Woulde to GOD they were not gone with one generall consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist from God to Epicure saying with wicked heartes and filthie mouthes there is no god Truth seketh not to be shrouded in corners I haue noted before a fewe places amongst many in which you haue corrupted the text of the Byble You seeme to vrge this matter instantly that your Church hath kept and
foresaide states in their gouernement and ministerie And if he can proue vnto me that their Churche hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that anie other Churche or congregation besides oures hath alwayes kept that charge and I recant Answeare TRuth it is that Christ gaue some to be Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastoures and teachers but where doe you reade that our Sauiour Christe euer promised all these functions to continue successiuely to the worldes end Shew vnto me anie which was called apostle or prophet after Christ his Apostles Saint Paule the blessed Apostle maketh mentioÌ„ of false Apostles which alwaies withstood the doctrine of the Gospell maintained the ceremonies of the Lawe and the inuentions of their owne braine and set them selues opposite vnto the true Apostles and if you will claime your succession from them I will easily agree vnto you There hath bene Preachers and teachers at all times saue onely when they haue bene kept vnder by your tyrannie which haue preached Gods truth and reproued your grosse Idolatrie whom your Church hath alwaies persecuted vnto death and euen vntill this time there hath bene and are Christians in Graecia and Asia which haue euerâ—â—â—e and doe yet vtterly detest the Pope the head of your Church with all your deâ—â—â—s and traditions But shewe mee in one place I pray you of the Scripture where euer Christ promised anie such succession to continue in all ages Yâ— were so that the truth of Gods worde â— the functions in Gods Church should â—ceed alwaies by ordinary succession tâ— you had a good foundation to builde yâ— succession vpon Then Christ our Sauiâ— by right should not haue controuled â— Scribes and Pharesies which satâ— Moses chaire which bragged of succeâ—on as well as you doe saying We are the seed of AbrahaÌ„ we are the disciplâ— of Moses vnto vs God hath made â— promisses as for Christ we knowe nâ— from whence he came And therefâ— they asked Christ By what power he dâ— such thinges who gaue him that auâ—thoritie and so they might very well haâ— said in respect of their outward successioâ— For so Annas and Caiphas were Bysâ—ops aswell as Aaron But that warniâ— and admonicion which Saint Paule gaâ— vnto the congregation of Ephesus toucâ—ing succession might satisfie you I know this saith he that after my departingeâ— there shal greuous Woolues enter in amoung you not sparing the flocke moreouer of your owne selues shall mâ— arise speaking peruerse thinges And againe he saith That true faith cometh not by succession but by hearing not the Bishoppe of Rome but the worde God. Yf Christ had appoynted anie such succession would he haue forewarned vs that desolation of abhomination should sit â—â—â—he holy place and that Antichrist should â—â—â—rude him selfe into the roome of Christ If you looke well about you you haue no cause to glory in succession for that by your writers sufficient is spoken to discredit your succession for one saith That many Popes haue fallen into heresies that Hildebrand in whose time defection froÌ„ the faith tooke place was charged by a generall councell to be an adulterer a Churchrobber a periured person a maâ—queller a sorcerer and an apostata Another calleth the Popes monsters and 〈◊〉 shapen creatures If your heade and chiefe of your Church be such what shall we iudge of the rest I wil take for proofe of your succession euen the confessioÌ„ of Pope â—drian the fourth Succedimus non Peâ—â—â—o in pascendo sed Romulo in parriciâ—â—â—o We succeede saith he not Peter in â—â—â—eding but Romulus in killing To be â—â—â—t what auaileth the succession of your Church vnlesse you coulde prooue that she hath alwayes mainteined the doctrine of Christ For Saint Augustine saith Thaâ— many doo giue the outward marke of a Byshop to wolues and be wolues them selues That the truth of Gods woord maâ— be the touchstone of lawfull succession giuâ— eare to the godly councell of a learned father It becommeth vs saith he to obeâ— those Priestes in the Church which hauâ— their succession from the Apostles anâ— together with the succession of their Bishoprikes according to the good wil oâ— God the father haue receiued the vndoubted gift of the truth An other being pressed with the like succession saith If any of my predecessors haue not obserued and kept the same that our Lorâ— hath taught vs both by his example anâ— also by his commaundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doâ— the like can hope for no pardon beinâ— now admonished and instructed of ouâ— Lord. And comparing all other Churcheâ— with the primatiue â—hurch the same fathâ— saith If the pipes of the conduit whicâ— before ran with abundance happen â— faile do we not vse to search to the heaâ— The Pristes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth haue fainted or failed in any point we returne to the original of our Lord and to the tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that thence wee may take the discretion of our dooings from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus muche concerning the succession of your Church hauing no warrant by Gods woorde Papist 6. AND for the necessarie vse and execution of the foresaide offices they must further bee asked what sacraments the ProtestaÌ„ts ministred for the space of a M. yeares together in which they confesse their congregation to haue beene neare or wholly hidde what correction or discipline they kept for offendors to whom they did preache their heresies Where did 〈◊〉 principall pastor sitte in iudgement â—â—â—re did they gather as in a councell â—â—â—ye the trueth in doubtfull matters Hâ—â—e might Christian men iustelie ofâ—â—â—d with some of their Bretheren haue sought out your officers or congregation to make complaint of him or how if it lacked any man to haue beene baptized of them or to haue receiued the communion of them or haue ioyned them selues in faith and religion vnto them How might I say that coâ—temptible and vnknowne companie haâ— beene found out in this case If therefoâ— you can shewe me that euer anie man sougâ— iustice or knowledge of truth sacramentâ— faith or anie helpe of saluation at the Proâ—stants secret and close Church or anie othâ— where else but of Gods knowne Catholâ— Church And I recant Aunsweare 6. TOuching Sacramentes we finâ— two appoynted expresly by the worâ— of God namely Baptisme and the Lorâ— Supper The one doeth signifie our neâ— birth and regeneration that as by watâ— the filthe of the body is washed cleane through faith in the bloud of Christ oâ— soules are clensed from all sinne and wâ— are incorporat and ingraffed into the bâ— of Christ and made members of his boâ— of which he is the onely head the other doâ— put vs in remembraunce that Christ Iâ—sus is our spiritual foode and sustenaunâ— that he is the celestial Manna which came downe from Heauen and
we faithfully râ—ceiuing the visible and externall signes according to Christ his institution in remembraunce of his death and passion spirituaâ—ly doe feed vpon the body of Christ aâ—â— receiue the fruites of his death euen remission of our sinnes Other sacramentes we haue no warrant for in the worde of god These sacramentes were onely vsed by Christ and his Apostles and by all their true successours The sacramentes in the olde Testament vnto which anie promise was annexed were these two onely that is circumcision and the Passouer which doe rightly and aptly represent 〈◊〉 two sacramentes set forth in the newe â—â—â—ament as Baptisme and the Lordes â—â—â—er which haue bene vsed alwaies â—â—â—e true Church euer since Christ and â—â—â—ued of the auncient Fathers as the onely knowne sacramentes appoynted by â—â—â—rist So Augustine affirmeth That 〈◊〉 Lord the Apostles deliuered vnto â—â—â—ewe sacraments in steede of manie 〈◊〉 the same to be most easie in doing â—â—â—st reuerend in vnderstandinge and in â—â—â—eruation most pure to wit the sacrameÌ„ts of Baptisme the celebratioÌ„ of thâ— sacrament of the body and blood of ouâ— Lorde Likewise another sayth The sacramentes of Christ in the catholikâ— Church are Baptisme and the bodâ— and bloude of our Lorde Which sacramentes also and all the principle poynte of our true religion Constantine the Christian and godly Emperour and alâ— his noble successours mightely defended and set forth the same The same Constantine was christened not by the Pope buâ— by Eusebius Bishop of Nicomedia noâ— in a corner but in the presence of many other not popishe but Christian Bishopes Hee ouercame Licinium his sisters husbande who persecuted the Christians The same Constantine summoned a councell at Nice against that blasphemous heritike Arrius And as the historie saith the Emperour before named wrote vnto all the rulers of the Churches that they shoulde be at Nice by a day to the Bishop of the Apostolicke sea to Macarius Bishope of Hierusalem and to Iulius the bishope of Rome In that flourishing time liued sundry godly writers whose bookes nowe extant doe shewe that they embracced the same faith and religion which we at this day do professe touching the Sacramentes iustification by faith onely inuocation to God alone saluation onely by Christ and all other chiefe poyntes of doctrine whose workes if your Romish Church had kept inuiolable and had not corrupted as you did in like manner with the Canonicall books of the Bible you might haue learned a difference betwixt trueth and errour And if you would yet hearken to the doctrine which they doe deliuer they will teach you that your Romish church is a cage of vncleane birdes and that your religion is mingled with all heresies though you charge others with the same fault and that you haue no true discipline but rather crueltie no principall pastor sauing Antichrist no officers but Blood-suckers and no Churche in deede but the Sinagogue of Sathan that cruell mother whiche will needes haue the Childe to be cutte in peeces which spareth no Sexe or kinde no Infant though it bee in the mothers belly no hoare heade nor aged person finally your church hath no truth but falshood and iâ— wholly imbamed with the heresies of aâ— ages You take parte with the Iewes anâ— Pagans you care not with whome yoâ— shake handes so it be not with Christ or his holy Gospell vnto which you doo beare â— deadly hate And yet you stand vpon youâ— reputation and would haue men to beleeuâ— you whatsoeuer you speake Whereas you call our Church A contemptible vnknowne close and secret company at thiâ— day the Lord be thanked the greater partâ— of Europe besides the countries I spakâ— of before doo ioyne together with vs iâ— one truth of doctrine I would haue yoâ— to prooue by the worde of God for youâ— wordes bee no warrant to auenturâ— our soules vppon your Romish Church to bee the auncient and true Catholike Church and to professe the same faith and doctrine truely which Christ his Apostles left behinde them and that which was in the time of those godly Emperours of Rome and a long tyme after or that Christ did promise to leaue such a Church as should haue onâ— generall and chiefe Pastor to sit in iudgement to punish offendors and to call a generall councell to try the truth or else we cannot ioyne with you against God and against his sonne Christ For we acknowledge no other principall Pastor but Christ Iesus whom the heauens must conteine vntill the time that all thinges be restored which God hath spokeÌ„ by the mouth of al his holy prophets since the world began who neuerthelesse is euer present with his Church Papist 7 AGaine I require of the Protestant to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelyhod when the true church as they account theirs to be decaied or in what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and preuailed Whether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none would preach against it euen at the tyâ—e when it first entred Whether all nations sodeinly and in one yeare were mooued vnto the doctrine of the Papistes no one man of all their true â—hurch either preaching teaching wriâ—â—â—g nor attempting any thing against it â— making mention of it Whether all â—â—â—kes of seruice were altered Whether 〈◊〉 a moment the masse was sayed in steede of their Apostolike communion Whether sodenly men began to pray for soules departed sodenly required the helpe of Saintes in heauen sodeinly the tongue of common praier was altered Tell me in what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope vppon what occasion this merueilous mutation was made by whome all these thinges were wrought who preached against it what storie maketh mention of it who of al your Pastoures preached against it Was Goddes Churche so voyde of the spirite of truth and strength that euen then when it most flourished it had none that durste open his mouth agaynst suche corruption of religion at the firste entering in of it and when it mighte soone haue beene repressed If it coulde not haue bene stayde tell me in what yeare of our Lorde this mutation was made and who of the true Preachers withstode our doctrine and yf wee note you not by the names euerye one of your captaines and the seuerall errours whiche they taught and the time and yeare when they rose against the receiued truth and the councels wherein they were orderly condemned If I say this canne bee doone on your side towards vs and wee do it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recante And for that purpose because the gouernement of the Bishoppes of Rome is moste misliked of them And yet moste notoriously knowne by euery Historie let them note the Pope that first brake of the course of his forefathers beliefe and Regiment in anie Articles of faith or necessarie Christian vsage And I recant Answeare 7. MY meaning is not to
aduocate with the Father â—esus Christ the righteous and he is the propiciation for our sinnes and not for â—urs onely but for the sinnes of the whole world By the which words we â— taught that Christ our sauiour is not onâ— the mediatour of our redemption but also â— our intercession doth plead our cause wâ— god Why would you haue vs to take Chrâ— his office froÌ„ him as you do by inuocatiâ— praying to saints in making theÌ„ meanâ— for vs seeing that the Saintes departâ— know not our estate vnderstande not oâ— infirmities as Esaie the prophet doth wâ—nesse saying Though Abraham be ignorant of vs Israel know vs not yet thoâ— O Lord art our Father our redemeâ— thy name is for euer Wherevppoâ— S. Augustine giueth this note Thoâ— seest here saith he that neither Abrahâ— nor Israel knewe after their death whâ— the estate was of their posteritie And iâ— the same chapter he saith I am certainely perswaded that the dead knowâ— no more what we do here in earth theâ— we being in earth knowe what they doâ— in heauen Touching seruice in an vnknowne speech howe can it stande with the Apostles doctrine If the Trumpet saith Saint Paule geue an vncertaine sounde who shall prepare himselfe to battaile Also in the same Chapter Let â— thinges bee done in the congregatiâ— to edifying howe are the people â—lified whiche vnderstande not what is â—oken But to make the matter more â—aine the Apostle saith further I had raâ—er in the Church to speake fiue words â—th my vnderstanding that I mighte â—so instruct others then ten thousande â—ordes in a straunge tongue You aske â—so who preached against the Churche â— Rome for the space of a M. yeares â—uly euen from time to time God had his â—hurche which reproued your grosse idoâ—tries And for a taste I will name you a â—we The Monkes â–ª of Chester which â—ere not idle bellied Monkes but payneâ—ll Preachers and lyued not vppon the â—eate of other mens browes but by their â—ne handy labour whom your Monkish â—ugustine sent into Englande by Pope â—regorie did finde meanes to murder â—ost cruelly by incensing the king to make â—arre against them Sabellicus saith in the â—are of our Lord 1111. the Bishop of Fluâ—ce beganne to teache preach Antiâ—rist then to be born to be manifest â—rnulphus a godly Precher inueying aâ—ainst the abominatioÌ„s of your Church was priuily hanged in Rome by youâ— cleargie men This is no tale but recoâ—ded by your owne histories A councâ— was holden in king Steuens time vndâ— Theobaldus Archebyshoppe of Caunteâ— burie charging the Byshoppes that thâ— people shoulde learne the Lordes prayeâ— and the Creede in Englishe Gherarduâ— and Dulcinus both being preachers affiâ—med the Pope to be Antichrist and Româ— to be Babylon In the same yeare king Henrie the seconde made Lawes at Claredowne in Normandie abolishing thâ— Popes authoritie taking away appellations and Peter pence In the citie of Tolouse in the yeare of our Lorde 1178. a great number both men and women professoures of the true religion were by the Popes commissioners coÌ„demned to death There were certaine christen people called Valdenses or Leonistes true professoures of the Gospell as appeareth by the articles of their religion which liued in the yeare of our Lorde 1170. And of these godlie Christians speaketh one of your owne writers who saith thus The secte of these Leonistes hath a great shewe of pietie or godlinesse because they liued iustly and vprightly before men â—nd doe beleeue all thinges very well â—hich concerne God and all the artiâ—es which be contained in the Creede â—nelie they doe speake ill of and doe â—ate the Churche of Rome I will not â—eake of king Iohn who detesting your Romishe doctrine was poysoned by a â—ayterous Moonke at Swinested Abbey â—n Lincolneshier I let passe Iohn Wickâ—iffe person of Literworth who reade the â—iuinitie lecture in Oxenforde a zealous â—rofessour of all the pointes of doctrine which we now mainteine Whose bones your cleargie tooke vp manie yeares after his death and burned them I coulde name Iohn Husse and Ierome of Prage Bohemians whome the Emperour and your Pope sent for vnto the councell holden at Constance vnder their safe Conductes to come and goe in safetie yea though they prooued verie notablie their faith which word by worde agreeth with the true religion now set foorth Neuerthelesse contrary to promise their owne hands seales most violently they coÌ„demned theÌ„ for heretikes burned them And to salue this sore bleare the worldes eies they afterwarde decreed that Fides cum haereticis non esset seruanda that is That faith ought not to be kept with heretikes Gods name be thanked it may sufficiently be proued that in all ages there were some which defended the truth against your tyrannie But to come to the Pope this word Papa is a generall name vnto all learned men and therefore doth not pertaine onely to the sea of Rome Saint Augustine Saint Hierome writing one to another calleth each other Papa though one of them was conuersant in Iewrie the other at Hippo in Aphrick But to the matter You woulde knowe what wee mislike in the Popes gouernment and what Pope declined first from his Forefathers faith and steppes The Popes or Bishopes of Rome for the space of three hundred yeares after Christ did for the most parte suffer martyrdome vnder the wicked Emperours for the testitimonie of Christ and the doctrine in these daies published At which time they did not rule but were ruled After that they liued other three hundred yeares and more in a calme time and in greate quietnesse by Gods prouidence vnder Constantine the greate and the godâ— Emperours his successors Which time â—eeing expired and accomplished they â—eeing pricked forwardes through pride â—nd ambition did beginne to claime supeâ—ioritie ouer their fellowe Bishoppes â—nd also to decline by little and little from â—he perfecte rule of God his holy woorde â—nd veritie And in steede thereof magnified and extolled them selues and â—heir own inuentions traditions not stryâ—ing and contending who should excell or â—oe before one an other in pure and â—incere doctrine and holinesse of life But â—ather who coulde woorke moste mischiefe and iniurie one towardes an other of them seeking one to depriue an other of theire Bishopprikes and often times of lyfe in taking one an other out of their graues and also cutting of one an others â—ingers and poisoning one another and â—n making Lawes decrees and ordinanâ—es one against an other there beeing sometymes two or three Popes at one time in doctrine vnsound in life wicked and in this hurley burly the Churche of Rome continued a verie long time both before and after Hildebrande Neuerthelesse this Hildebrande beyng yet Cardinall as one of your owne Cardinals reporteth did beate Pope Alexander with his fist and kept him in
other mens writing and so would I haue others vnderstand myne It is most true that Origem Ambrose Augustine Hierom the other fathers of the Church haue their seuerall errors one doth write against an other most vehemently What maruell is it that these did differ seing that â—he Apostles theÌ„ selues could not agree alwayes in all pointes Paule did withstand Peter in the face before all men Platina one of your owne storie writers affirmeth that the Popes them selues whom you brage so much of did repugne one an others decrees The next Pope saith he either breaketh or vtterly repealeth his predecessors decrees For these little petie Popes had no other studie to occupie them selues with all but only to deface the name of the former Popes of which church were not only these Popes but also your owne scholemen pillers of your religion How came it to passe that these thinges were vttered in your owne boks Barnardus non vidit omnia Barnarde did not see all things Hic magister non tenetur Here one maister is not to bee receiued Thomas Aquine saith that we are not boÌ„nd vpon the necessitie of saluatioÌ„ to beleue not only the Doctours of the Churche as Hierom. August â–ª but also neither the church it selfe sauing only matters concerning the substaunce of faith But lett all mens aucthoritie passe and receiue that remaining in eight Persons the which which the holy Apostle wriceth Whosoeuer bringeth not the Doctrine of the Gospell receiue them not And againe If wee or an Angell from heauen doe preach any other doctrine theÌ„ you haue receiued hold him accursed To conclud we ought not to leane either to this man or that to the right hand or to the left to this church or that church in any thing whatsoeuer further then the truth of Gods word doth direct vs Neither doeth our saluation depend vppon anie earthly man but we ascribe it wholy to our lord sauiour Christ by whose stripes onely we are healed Papist 11 MOreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in the time on which they hold the true Church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the catholik Church was bound to goe from the church which they sawe and which taught them both that article all other things touching their faith by which they were christened receiued al other sacramentes commodities of saluation And whether they were bound to seeke for this vnknowne closse congregation which they could neither come vnto nor by â—hich they neuer receaued any benefit nor â—ould receiue any so forsake the church â—y whome and in whome they receiued both â—heir faith sacraments Shew me therfore â—hat the Christian men of those dates were charged to beleue any other church or seke for any other church theÌ„ that which taught them the articles of the church and baptized them And I recant Answeare 11 YOu further demauÌ„d Whether the people when the Church was hid were bound to goe from the church which they sawe seeke the vnknowne church beleue the same If you will vouchsafe to peruse that which I haue noted heretofore which is also confirmed by sundrie learned authorities viz. that the true church of God is to be sought for to be found only by the scripturs which are the foundations of the same church you may be satisfied heerein that the people ought to stay them selues vpon the scriptures not to beleue any further then Gods word leadeth theÌ„ The true church of God is not alwayes most apparant in earth or consistinge of the greatest number This appeareth by Noah in setting him selfe against all the worlde the true Church onely excepted then were saued in the arke and all the worlde else drowned Was not Lot his small familie the true Church of God deliuered by the Angells and the fiue whole citties destroyed â–ª where was the Church in the time of Elias when he complained most bitterly and said I haue bene verie ielous for the Lord God of hoastes For the children of Israel haue forsaken the couenant broken downe the altars slaine thy Prophetes with the swoord I only am lefte and they seeke my life to take it away Where was the Church when Esay the Prophet cried out How is the faithfull cittie become an harlot it was full of iudgement iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers their siluer is become drosse their wine is mixed with water their Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues Where was the Church when Dauid the Prophet did breake for the into theise words there is not one that doeth good no not one If there were any Church of God in these times in which these Propheâ—es liued no doubt it was in verie fewe or els hid altogether otherwise they would not so greeuouslie haue complained of the want thereof And yet there was in all â—ese times a Church in outwarde forme â—ewe to the iudgment of man supposed to â— the true Church where the Iewes the â—â—e Church at what time they bosted most â— the outwarde beautie of their Church â—ying We are the temple of the Lord or â—hen they sayd wee are the children of God whereas euen at that time they went â— whoring after their owne inuentions But as the Scribes Pharisies vaunted â—em selues that they were the true Church â—f God the Disciples of Moses the sonnes â—f Abraham where as in deede by the teâ—â—imonie of our sauiour Christ they worâ—â—ipped God in vaine teachinge the preâ—eptes and doctrines of men and erred for â—hat they knowe not the scriptures were â—ypocrites dissemblers deuouring wiâ—owes houses vnder a colour of longe praiâ—r euen so you with your Church of Rome â—hough you bragge neuer so much of your â—uccession and aucthoritie the holy ghost â—lainly sheweth that your Babilon shall â—aue a fal Our sauiour Christ telleth both â—ou the pharisees that you haue made through your own deuises the temple of God adenn of theues Triumph neuer so much that you are the catholike church â–ª that you are in the arke of Noah you are none of Gods neither shall be till you renounce abolish your vaine ceremonies â— false worshipping of God other thinges which you do contrarie to his holy wordeâ— The true church of God is coÌ„pared to the Moone which sometimes is full clere aâ— bright sometimes in the Eclips is wan â— darke so the church of God is now great now small now calme and in quietnesse nowe subiect to tempests and troubles nowe in many nowe in fewe And therefore you are greatlie deceiued in that you do thinke the Church vtterly extinguished wheÌ„ it appeareth not at your pleasure Thus you may learne by sundrie writers that God hath had wil haue alwaies his church whether it be more or lesse One which hath written the Forte of
â—e Lord we will not heare them of thee â—ut we wil doo whatsoeuer thing goeth â—orth of our owne mouth as to burne â—ncense vnto the Queene of heauen and â—o poure our drinke offerings vnto her as we haue doone both we and our fathers our kinges and our princes in the â—itie of Iuda in the streetes of Hierusalem Whereas in deede they woorshipped sacrificed to the Sonne Moone and Starres and committed grosse Idolatrie against god Euen as you haue learned by that idolatrous people and grounded I thinke vppon this place to call the Virgin Mary Queene of heauen and to sing Salue Regina and againe Regina coeli laetare Reioyce O Queene of heauen And euen from this same time wherein Ieremie liued and for the most parte vntill the time of our Sauiour there were false Prophets and men of greate learning which preached idolatrie in steed of Gods lawe yet imagined that they serued God shal we say that these were of Gods church because their religion continued so long a time woulde that excuse them or the Pharisees in pleading that they were the true successors of Moses the children of Abraham and that they taught the Lawe of God when as in deede they had corrupted the Lawe Euen so albeit you boaste neuer so much of succession or that your Church hath continued thus manie hundreâ— or thus many thousand yeeres or that your Churche is the knowne Catholike Church if that you be not able to prooue by the woord of God that your Church is the true Church and the religion and doctrine of your Church is fully and wholy in euery point grounded vppon the Gospell of Christ which you shall neuer be able to doo then you boaste and bragge in vayne The Turke himselfe by this argument of succession and continuance may approue the Alcaron and religion of Mahomet and this to be as true a Churche as yours This reason might the Aegyptians the Persians the Romanes and all Esawes broode haue alleadged for themselues So that to ende this matter it is neither the title or name of a Churche neither the succession of Officers or the continuance of the same or the aucthoritie of anie man that maketh the difference betwixte the true and false Churche but onelie the true worde of God which discetneth them Papist 14 MOreouer let anie Protestant shewe how that can be the piller of truth whiche durst not for a thousande yeares together claime either the preaching of Gods worde or ministring the Sacramentes or woulde vtter her selfe against falshood and superstition Let any man shew that all the giftes of the Spirite and functions of the holie Ghoste haue been taken from her for a thousande yeares together and onely practised for the peoples vse by the adulterous Churche Let it bee declared how the gates of bell haue not preuailed and Christes woordes promise and warrant for her hath not bene voyde and frustrate of a bastarde churche exercising perpetuall idolatrie as they say hath spoyled the true churche of all holie actions and of the whole gouernement and of the whole name of Christianity almost euer since Christes time Let me see therefore howe the onely dareling and spouse of Christe shoulde be neglected so long of him so long let the Aduersarie shewe that the Churche should euer by superstition and falshood committ adulterie or deserue to be deuorced from him or that Christ shoulde euer want his spouse in earth or that he shoulde be either a heade without a bodie or of such an vnknowen and small bodie or that Christ his onelâ—e kingdome should become so contemptable or that his spouse in earth shoulde euer lacke the singuler prerogatiue of Gods spirit Shewe me these things and I recant Answeare 14. COncerning the principal matter comprised in this your demaunde it is sufficientlie answeared before howe that all the Christians in Greece and Asia haue euer refused to agree with your Churche in faith and doctrine that God hath raised vp from time to time since your Churche declined from the true and Apostolike faith some which haue inueighed against your superstitious traditions euen as it is recorded by a learned writer who affirmeth That there hath bene some in euerie age which haue honored and embraced the Gospell but that within the space of these foure hundred yeares the zeale therof hath decaied in manie men And whereas you aske Howe the holie Ghost coulde be kepte so long from this close â—hurche how the gates of hell haue not preâ—ayled against it howe Christes dearling â—ouldâ— be neglected howe Christe shoulde â—e head of suche a Churche as hath either â—o bodie at all or else a very small and â—tle bodie â–ª I answeare that albeit to your â—do â—meaâ— the Churche of God whiche â—s the congregation of the faithful be conâ—mptible and despised yet neuerthelesse â— God 's eyes it is precious The holie Ghost commeth not in visiâ—le forme vnto the children of God as the Owle or Howlet presented himselfe in the â—ytime and stared your Pope Iohn in â—e face when he and his Cleargie were â—t in a general Councell holden at Rome by which occasion the Councel was dissolâ—ed â–ª but he is the comforter which shall â—wayes remaine with the church of God â—hich dwelleth with suche as be faithful â—hich guydeth and ruleth their mindes â—hich doth saÌ„ctifie them inwardly whiche â—pirite doeth breathe his graces where â—e listeth and when he pleaseth And thereâ—ore it is a great fault in you to vtter suche â—ashe iudgement and to propounde suche vayne questions or rather as you seeme to define where Gods spirite remayneth as though you had him in a string or that he should be at your becke and appointment The wordes of Christ be true That Hell gates which is the power of Sathan Antichrist which standeth in crafte and violence shall not preuaile against the Churche of God. For you may burne their bodies racke them in peeces teare them in sunder with wilde Horses boyle them in cauldrons roaste them on spittes broyle them vppon gridyorns stabbe and prodde them in with bodkins or penkniues throwe them vnto wilde beastes or other waies to torment them as your Church oâ— Rome hath vsed the children of God euen this close Churche whiche you so often do skoffe at Neuerthelesse their names are written in the booke of life When yoâ— haue consumed the bodie you haue no further power you haue done all that you caâ— for Christes Churche is Christes darling in deede whom he wil not forsake because he is alwayes faithfull and sure in his promises The mouth of God hath promised them helpe whiche cannot lie Christe iâ— deede is the true andonelie heade of his Churche whiche be the faithfull children â—f God truely called the temple of God â—ecause that GOD is resident in them by â—is holie spirite and these faithfull are the â—tones of the new Ierusalem which is the â—niuersall Churche of God of
the comming of Christ sauing Iohn Bapâ—iste and he thirty yeares of age before hee preached was there no churche or was Gods spirite decayed and his trueth vanâ—uished all this while â–ª God forbid that â—ee shoulde bee so rashe in iudgement as â—nce to thinke so For Gods spirite which â—s the coÌ„forter of the faithful hath instrucâ—ed the churche of God whether it hath appeared or bene hidde whether it hath beene close or open whether in manie or â—n fewe euer since the beginning So Christe Iesus hath promised that his spirit shoulde remaine with the children of God though the wicked would not receiue him because they see him not neither knowe him The comfortable Spirite of God doeth woorke saluation â—oth adopt into Gods fauoure doth puriâ—â—e our heartes doeth moue vs to all good and godlie actions doth comforte vs in al daungers and confirmeth vs to expecte the comming of our sauiour Christ Therfore to this spirite with the Father and the Sonne be all honour laude and praise Papist 16 SHewe me againe whether anie man can be saued except he beleeue the catholike Church and that is it which in the face of all the world hath practised preaching the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwayes had the ministring of the Sacramentes the hearing of matters in coÌ„trouersie the orderly succession of Bishoppes vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnitie in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite a woorking of miracles remission of sinnes the true sense and interpretation of Gods word that is beawtified with diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with virgins martirs with confessors and the rest Prooue vnto me that this is not the true Church or that we be bounde to obey this Church and none other in all controuersies and doubts raised by the difficultie of the scripture or by the vaine contention and pride of heresie And I recant Answeare 16 Suppose that there was neuer any man which would looke to haue saluation by â—ods mercies in Christ that euer denied â—e Church of god So we beleeue that â—od hath had his Church euer since the â—ginning which Church is the Company â— the faithfull dispersed through out the â—ce of the whole earth which church is the â—ouse of Christ builded vppon the doctrine â— the Apostles and Prophets Christ him â—fe beeing the heade corner stone Yet â—e vtterly denye your Church of Rome to â— this true Church of god The reasons â—d causes why we will not close handes â— agree with your Church be these First â—ur Church dooth refuse Christ Iesus to â— her head in that she setteth vp her Pope â— be her head wherin she wil be gouerned â— all things euen against gods holy word â—erefore your Church is not of god That â—hrist is the heade of the true church not â— but the spirit of God testifieth that God â—ath appointed Christ ouer all things â— be the head to the Church which is â—s body And again The husband is the â—yues head euen as Christ is the heade â—f the Church and he is the same which â—eueth saluation vnto his body Your church appointeth otherwaies to be saueâ— by then onely Christes death and passion yea doth persecute Christ in his members taketh away the key of knowledge whiâ— is the woorde of God from Gods people for that ye wil not suffer them to haue it â— their knowne tongue you feede them nâ— with the sweete pastures of the holy scriptures but with the dregges of your blind Ceremonies and vayne traditions yoâ— teach them to pray in a straunge languagâ— to woorship the creature in steede â— the Creator you mixe the woorde of Goâ— with your owne deuises not to the benefite of Gods people but to get mony anâ— to enrich your selues with the spoile â— their soules You sett out all your practises as you call them to sale For of youâ— church it is saide Omnia Romae vaenaliaâ— All thinges are to bee had for monye aâ— Rome The Poet saith That Templeâ— Priestes altars sacrifices crownes fierâ— frankencense yea heauen is to be soldâ— and God him selfe But you giue smalâ— credit vnto this author Will you hearâ— what one of your approoued doctors saith Roma dat omnbus omnia dantibus omnia Romae cum praecio Rome doth â—iue to al men which doo giue all things â—o her all thinges are there to be had for â—ony at Rome Your owne decretales â—y That Rome is the head of coueteousâ—esse and therefore all thinges are there â—o be solde Your Popedome is in part â—ainteined with the tribute of Curtesans â—r common stues which is the rewarde of â—niquitie Thus you forbid lawfull matriâ—onie and mainteine open lecherie And â—hereas you would haue the worlde to beâ—eeue that your Church of Rome hath alwayes had the due and right administratiâ—n of the Sacramentes vnitie in faith orâ—erly succession of Bishoppes euen from Peter vniformitie in solempne ceremonies â—ebating of matters in controuersie all holy functions commended by Christ as virgins martirs and confessors and that all Churches are bound to obey the Church of Rome in all controuersies and doubtes raysed by the difficulty of the scriptures it shall appeare to all men that these are but vaine ostentations and shewes without truth But you wil aske me who shal iudge this matter for sometimes you stay vpon Counceles sometimes vppon Fathers sometimes vpoÌ„ customes Truly I would but wishe you and euery indifferent reader to examine whether your masse doe agree worde by worde with the last supper of our sauiour Christe You haue culleâ— foorth these woordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie And therevppoâ— haue framed your masse The wordes be comfortable if you would take theÌ„ in a spirituall sense and meaning to signifie vnto vs the bodie of Christe as the godlie Father Augustine doth expouude those same woordes Non dubitauit dominus dicere hoc est corpus meum cum daret signum corporis sui Our Lord saieth hee doubted not to say This is my bodie when as he gaue a signe of his bodie Likewise Tertullian saith Hoc est corpus meum hoc est figura corporis mei â–ª This is my bodie that is to say This is a figure of my body But what shal I speak of al the abuses of your masse as the consecration the eleuation the aduocation the priuate receiuing the vnknowen tongue the ministration in one kinde keeping the â—uppe from the Laie people making it a propiciatorie sacrifice for the quicke and dead which all are moste contrarie vnto Christe his institution in his last supper Furthermore you haue corrupted Baptisme and haue deuised fiue other Sacraâ—entes more then Christe hath ordained â—d appointed in his worde Touhcing your succession of bishopes â—d vnitie in religion they are two things â—hich sound verie well together If so bee â—u can proue your succession out of the â—orde
of God and your vnitie to agree â—ith Christs veritie and Gospell But is â—t this rather truely verified of your sucâ—ssion which was vttered by Pope Aâ—riaÌ„ Succedimus non Petro in pasceÌ„do â—d Romulo in parricidio We succeade â—aith hee not Peter in feeding but Roâ—ulus in murdering Succession of place â—uaileth not one strawe if you cannot in â—ke maner proue the succession of Christ â—s true doctrine The idolatrous priestes â— al ages might verie wel haue boasted of â—ccession of place And so might the Phaâ—sees which bragged somuch of their temâ—le and of their succession euen from Moâ—es and yet they were fouly fallen awaye â—roÌ„ the sincere pure Law of God worâ—hipped god in vain teaching the precepts â—nd doctrine of men You claime your sucâ—ession from Peter the blessed Apostle of Christ for that as you saie he was Bishope of Rome If nowe you can proue that your religioÌ„ is the same that Peter taught written by the spirit of truth for the comfort of the true Church of God conteined in the newe testament of Christ Then not onely I but all which defende the same truth with me will willingly ioyne handes with you But and if you can not proue your doctrine by gods worde you must theÌ„ pardoÌ„ vs in that we wil not take your part against Christ I woulde to God that you woulde vnfainedlie sect forthe to the vse of gods people that religion which the Apostle Paule I will not say Peter for that there is no warraÌ„t in the scriptures for his beinge at anie time in Rome planted amongst the Romanes Which faith true religion the Apostle commendeth in theÌ„ â–ª Then surely we woulde not onely goe but ruÌ„ne with you to the building of gods temple and woulde lay to our handes and our harts To this effect spaketh S. Ciprian that alwaies wee builde our faith succession and whole religion vpon a sure stedfast foundation If saith he The pipes of the cundit which before ran with aboundaunce happen to faile doe wee not serche to the heade c â–ª The priests of God â–ª â—â—â—ing gods commaundements must doe the same that if the truthe haue fainted or failed in any point we turne to the very originall of our Lord and to the traditions of the Gospell and of the Apostles that from thence the reason of our actions or doings may arise from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus wee may say of your vnitie in faith your vniformiâ—ie in ceremonies your holy functions If you can proue confirme these thinges by manifest places of the holy scriptures for my parte I will recant â—nd be of your religion But though you â—r an Angel would perswade me to the coÌ„trarie without the testimonie of Gods worde God assisting me with his spirit I will not beleue you I marueile why you will seeme to mainteine these matters seâ—ng it is most repugnanc to the truth The â—eade Capitaines of your religion and Doctours of your Church do not agree in â—he vnitie of your religion but do disâ—ent in the principle pointes thereof Some â—aye That Christes naturall body euen â—he same which was borne of the virâ—in Marie is receiued in the Sacrament â—ome denye saying that so soone as the forme of the bread is grated with the teethe straight way the body of Christ is caught vp into Heauen One sayth That a mouse may eate the body of Christ an other sayth That a mouse can not eate it and to dissolue these questions the cheefe piller of your church euen Petrus Lombardus saith What the mouse doth take or what she eateth God knoweth I can not tell And noting further the disagrement of your church men he saith Some men iudge thus some say thus some haue written thus some graunt thus some others haue taught thus that the verie substance of the bread wine remaine still And if a question saith he were moued what maner of conuersion or chaunge this is whether in forme or in substaunce or in some other manner I am not able to discusse An other saith How the body of Christ is there whether it bee by chaunging of something into it or Christes body beginne to bee there together with the bread both the substance and the accidents of the bread remaining still without chaunging it is not founde exprest in the canon of the Bible Innocentius the thirde Pope of that name sayth that there were some which sayde that as after consecration there remayned the very accidentes or formes of â—reade so likewise the verie substance of the same breade remaineth still Marke howe the pleasâ—â—nt and swete â—armonie and concordaunce of your â—hurch of Rome doeth agree and hange â—ogether as coÌ„cerning these weightie cauâ—s I thinke you iudge this transubstanâ—ation a matter of faith You may see â—en howe you agree or rather disagree â— the vnitie of faith Concerning your â—iformitie in your so manie superstitious â—uiteles and tedious Ceremonies and â—aditions of your owne inuentions it â—ay easily be veiwed and seene by the maâ—fold sectes of your religious stoare and â—ble of your heremites your Ankers â—d Ancresses your recluses your holy â—onkes of Benettes order of Cluniacenâ—s order of Lazarits order of Saint â—ieronimus order of Saint Gregories â—der the order of the shadowed valley of â—saphattes order of the Humiliats orâ—r of the Celestines order of Gilberâ—nes order of Iustinians order of the Charter house Monks of the Templaries order of the Iacobites order the Monks of Mount Oliuete Maries bretheren the order of the Flagellatours the Starred Monkes some white some black some graie some maled so called for thaâ— they did weare male cotes next their skin the order of Iesuites and a greate company of orders besides these Of Friers somâ— were called crosse bearers some Carmelitâ— or white Friers some Minorities or greâ— Friers some obseruant Friers some Mendicant or begging Friers some Dominicke some Franciscans so called of Sainâ— Frances whose coule as Thomas Aquine faith had power to remoue sinne I omitte your Channons your Virgiâ— Nunnes of all sortes but such as had nâ— oyle in their Lampes your Nominals your reals I might make a long discourse here in describinge the varietie of this religions crue and companie not only in ceremoniall matters but also in matters of faith and doctrine But I trust all the world doth knowe howe they haue bene bewitched with such kind of sorceries and therefore I should but wast labour and lose time You aske further Whether wee bee bounde to obey your Church of Rome and none other in all controuesies and doubtes raised by the difficultie of the Scriptures or by the vaine contention of heresies Hereby you seeme to chalenge two thinges not onely a prerogatiue or preheminence aboue all other churches but also the interpretation of the scriptures solely and wholy to appertaine vnto you But I pray you tell me from whence you had this
the Scriptures of God onely which are called by Godly writers and Fathers the Pastures for the Children of God to feede in it dooth teache Christ onely to be our Sauiour And no name to be giueÌ„ vnto men vnder heaueÌ„ in which we may be saued but onely the name of the onely begotten sonne of God Iesus Christ that his blood doth purge vs from all sinne Your Church of Rome dooth tell the people that they must seeke their saluation in Trentalles of Masses in pardons in their owne woorkes in the bloode of Hales in the blood of Thomas For these be your owne wordes Tu per Thomae Sanguinem quem pro te impendit Fac nos coelum scandere quò Thomas ascendit Which is as much to say O as Christ make thou vs euen for the bloode of Thomas whiche he shed for thy sake to climbe vp into heaueÌ„ whether Thomas is ascended Seeing therefore that your Church dooth not vpholde and manteine the truth of God but hir owne inuentions and deuises howe can your Church be called The piller of truth Howe can your Church be called the Citie of God or you Citizens of God sith that you wil not submit your selues vnto the Lawes of God set forth by his worde Howe can your church be called The spouse of Christ seing as a bloodie mother you deuide the child and do persecute and crucifie a freshe Christe in his members These titles alledged by you are no doubt to bee vnderstanded of the inuisible Church of God whiche is the number of Goddes electe and faithfull children scattered abroade throughout the whole worlde neither can they be applied vnto your church of Rome whiche is no parte or parcell of Goddes Church for that as I haue saide before she neither holdeth the true doctrine of the Gospell nor heareth the voyce of the onely begotten sonne of God the true and onely pastor and teacher as hee himselfe sayth My sheepe doe heare my voyce and do follow me neither ministreth the Sacramentes truely according to the institution of Christ neither obserueth the voyce in veritie powred foorth by the spirit of God into the heartes of the faithfull true â—embers of Christ neither doeth imâ—race the true Catholike and Apostolike â—aith as necessarily the true church of God â—oth with full consent and agreement Wherefore to conclude this my answeare I wishe you not to claime and chalenge â—hese glorious names and titles vnto â—oure Churche vnlesse you were able to â—o proue the same by the holy word of God â—or the trueth of Gods Gospell shall preâ—ayle will you nill you yea in spite of Mahomete and Antichrist your Pope â—ud the more that you shall spurne agaynst â— the greater harme shall redownd to your â—lues Though I am vnknowen vnto you â—et this good will I doe beare you that I â—oste heartily doe pray vnto God for you â—hat your eyes may be opened to vnderâ—ande what his will is set foorth in his â—oorde and knowing the same that you â—ay imploy all your studie to aduaunce â—nd extoll the glorie of God whiche God graunte you for his Christes sake To whom with the holie spirit be all honour and glorie now for euer Amen 1. Sam. 5. 3. Io. 5. 3 9. Io. 17. 17. Gal. 1. 8. Chrisost in epist. ad Gallat cap. 1. August cont lit Petilian lib. 3. cap. 6. Gene. 19. 16. 2. Cor. 6. 2. â—â—ech 33. 11. Aug. Steâ—chus in lib. Num. cap. 19. Platina Esai 53. 5. Ioh. 1. 29. Act. 4. 12. 1. Ioh. 1. 7. Apoc. 1. 5. 1. Ioh. 2. 1. Heb. 10. 14. 1. Cor. 10. 14. Ioh. 5. 24. Apoc. 14. 13. 1. Cor. 1. 30. Luke 23. 44. Luke 16. 22. Deut. 5. 32. Apoca. 22. 18. Mat. 24. 9. Iohn 15. 18. Iohn 16. 1. 1. Pet 1. 7. 〈◊〉 9. 41. Esa. 8. 20. Ierem. 8. 9. Esa. 64. 6. 〈◊〉 3. 21. 2. Tim. 3. 16. 1. Tim. 4. 3. 〈◊〉 59. 21. Mat. 18. 15. Colos 1. 6. 1. Pet. 5. 1. Ephe. 4. 11. Ioh. 10. 1. Gal. 4. 13. Esai 50. 1â— â—se 2. 2. 3. 4. Apoc. 14. 8. Mar. 16. 15. Tertul. cont Iudaeos Phil. 1. 13. 3. Reg. 18. 3. Tertul. in Apologetico Act. 17. 18. Phil. 2. 13. Iohn 10. 3. Ephes 2. 20. Iraene lib. 3. cap. 11. Aug. de Vinitate Eccle. cap. 3. Chrisostom in opere imperfecto hom 44. Rom. 1. 16. Aug. de venitatâ— Eccle. cap. 16. 1. Ioh. 4. 2. Pigghius Libro 3. Cap. 3. Hetarchia Eckius De Ecclesia Hosius in confessione Petri. cap. 80. Hosius De Expresso Dei verbo Nicholaus Cusanus de autoritate ecclesiae et concilio supra et contra Scripturam Gen. 3. 14. 1. Cor. 15. 51 1. Cor. 15. 53. Concil Triden Extra de constitutionibus statuta Canon felici Ierem 36. 23 Gal. 18. 1. Barnat in synod Ramensi Parali Vspergens pag. 396. Barnar in concilio Ramensi Petrarch Tho. Becket ad Episco Moguntinum Cornel. Bitontiâ—â—s in câ—ncilio â—ridentino Luke 22. 38 â—e maiorit et oâ—ed vnam sancâ—am Psalm 8. 6. Antoni in sum ma. p. 3. Titul 22 cap. 5. Psal 91. 13. Ambrosi Catharin concil Tri. Session 2. Bemb Cardi. in epist. ad Charol Act. 24. 5. Act. 24. 14. Ioh. 9. 34. Ioh. 16. 1. Apoc. 13. 15. 1. Cor. 1. 3. 1. Tim. 1. 20. Ambros in 1. Ti. ca. 5. Cyprian lib. 3. epist. 19. Lib. 4. sent dist 18. Luke 12. 32. Iohn 16. 20. Iohn 16. 20. Ephe. 4. 11. Paulus Aemilius Io. 8. 33. Io. 9. 28. Luke 20. 4. Acs. 20. 28. Rom. 10. 17. Rom. 10. 17. Matâ— â—4 15 â–ª â—ira in Matth. cap. 16. Platin. in Rom. 1â— Adrian 4. Aug. cont Donatist lib. 6. Aug. cont Donatist lib. 6. Irenaeus lib. 4. cap. 43. Cyprian lib. 2. epist. 3. August de Doct. Christian lib. 3. cap. 9. Paschasius de coena domini Hierom. in Chro. Onomasticon Sozomen lib. 1. Cap. 17. Act. 3. 21. Platin. in Bonis 3. Sabellicus Gregor lib. 4. epist. 36. August Abbas vrsperg Anno. 1083. 1215. Sentenc 4. dist Si autem Gabriel Biel. in canon lect 40. Luke 16. 22. Apo. 14. 13 Io. 16. 23. 1. Io. 2. 1. Esai 63. 16. Aug. lib. de cura pro mortuis agenda Cap. 14. 1. Cor. 14. 8. 1. Cor. 14. 19. Reinulph Câ—â—â— Sabellicus Anno. 1131 â–ª Sabellicus Platina Anno. 1133. Anno. 1280. Anno. 1178. Roger Houeden Laziardus Anno. 1170. Reinerius Coâ—cil constan Platina â—enno Cardinalis Auentinus 2. Thes 3. 4. 5. Apoc. 18. 3. Platina Agrippa devanitate scientiarum Irenaeus Ancelm 2. thess. 2. Gregorie in Iob. lib. 25. cap. 14. 1. Cor. 11. 23. Act. 2. 42. Ex primo Tom. Conciliorum Anno. 810. Raâ—â—lphus Cesâ—â—iens I aurentius vallâ— de donatione Constantini Bonifacius Athanasius in epist. ad solâ—tariaâ—â— vitam agendam Augu. ad Bonifâ— cium epist. 50. Math. 26. 26 â–ª 1. Cor. 10. 21. Aug. contra Anabaptists Bâ—llinger â–ª contra Anabaptistas Ephe. 1. 4. Aug ad Fortunaâ—ianum â—pist 3. Gal. 2. 11. Platina in Stephano Romano