If the Publishers conteÌ„ding here be d Doctrinsa vana est ratiâ— ut accesserit Tull as he sayes himselfe to preserue the churches privileidge the thinge certaine which he chargeth his brethren with to weet that they were the troblers of Israel let him then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * Suidas we are the laurel But if he be erronious in the one a false accuser in the other I hope among the godly wise he shall haue his demerit accordinly To the matter First that hearing of false ministers is a privileidge of Gods Church I denie it this is but the froth of his owne lips neither soled nor sauerie as wel he may say that whoredome is a womans priviledge theift a servants rebellion a subjects disobedience childrens reason and ground there is alike And to proue this thus I reason What soeuer God hath bestowed vpon his Church as her priviledge the same is to be found in his word But it is not mentioned there that true beleeuers as their priviledge ought to heare Antichristian Teachers Ergo c. The proposition is vnquestionablie certaine by these scriptures Psa 19. 7. 2. Timot 3. 15. 16. Esa 8 20. Iohn 15. 17. Act. 20. 27. Besides this is the vnanimous consent of learned writers The scriptures sayth Athanatius e Cont Gent. In Iohn hom 49. doe helpe vs with the knowledge of euerie truth Here saith Augustine f. we find whatsoeuer is to be don or not don Allthings sayth Chrisostome g Comment in 2 These 2. that are meet to be knowne in Gods word are manifested The same sayth Iustine h In Apol 2. et inst Strorâ— l. 6. Clemens i 2. Lib. 2. e. l. Paraeus k Disput Aphoris iu Bellarm de verb. dei Aphor. 1. Polanus l Synt. theol lib. 1. C. 46. Cartwright m Ansvv to the Rhem on Heb. 9 secâ— 2. B Hall n Rom. irrecon sect 16. D. Iames o Manuduct to divinit Pag. 1. others The Assumption is proved thus If the hearing in question be condemned in scripture then it is no priviledge of the Church but the first is true therfore the second The first part which is only controversall is evident cleare by these scriptures Levit. 17. 3. 4. deu 12. 5. Pro. 5. 8. Hos 4. 15. Mat. 7. 15. 2. Cor. 7. 15. 16. 17. Reuel 18. 4. Son 1. 6. 7. To this all sorts of writers ascent Zanchie p Explicat in Philp. c. 3. ver 2 pag. 17 4. Tom. 4. on philip 3. 2. Beware of doggs Writes thus Tales doctores qui testimonium non habent ab Apostolis Apostolicisque viris atque ecclesijs nempe summa diligentia ac studio curandum esse vt eos observemus cognoscamus et fugiamus Such Teachers as haue not their authortie From the Apostles and Apostolical men true churches we ought with great studie and care to obserue know auoyd them The Authors q Admon â— pag. 27. of the Admonition to the parliament affirme Whosoeuer preacheth by an vnlawfull calling he may not be heard noe though he speake the truth no more then the Devil was to be suffered howbeit he preached Christ. As God sayth One r T. C. repl 1. p. 83. 155. hath ordained that the word should be preached so also in what order by whome And therfore as we care for the truth so we must of whome we receiue it So judicious Rolloc s Comment in 1 Thes 5. 21. l. P. 228. Non audiendi et explorandi sunt nisi qui antegrestam ad id vocationeÌ„ habent aliquam They are not to be heard tryed who haue not a lawfull fore-gooing calling to the ministerie And of the same iudgment is Rivetus t Comment in psa 16. pag. 52 musculus v Comment in Mat. 7. 15. Oecolampadius x Comment in Esa c. 2. sol 20. Calvin y in Psal 16. Fenner a Interpretat Son chap. 1 â— 6. 7. Lation b Syons Plea pag. 283. yea the papists in this point are sounder then either the Pistler or his Leader Paul c The Popes first Breue dated in the years 1606 the fift in a certaine Bull sent to his Calues in England Catholikes Imight haue said chargeth them by all meanes not to goe to the parish Churches or heare their sermons least they incurre the wrath of God The Rhemists d Annot in 1. Cor. 10. sest 21 say the like so the Doway translators adde thus Such as goe vnto false Churches are to be counted of that ranke Paul speakes of in Tit. 1. Vit. who confesse they know God but in workes deny him e In 1 king chap. 5. v. 19. For the munition therfore which he speakes of here if this sinsull hearing be his best to preserue Gods Church from the attempts of adversaries Let him keepe it himself for we know oh that we had neuer knowne it by vnhappy experience the use nature of it As the Iewes of old by taking the Aegyptians for their munition f Esa 30. 2. 3. where it hath entertainment a very fyer-brand that consumeth the building a Gangrene that stayes not in one place but corrupteth by degrees the whole body kils It a Fernel Amb. physiolog l 7. â—â— p 6â—â— in a word it is as the wild Bore of the forest which wasteth the Lords vineard b VVitnesse the Church of Leiden vvhe by this meanes novv sits solâ—tary that vvas full of people thy Calse O Samaria hath cast thee off hos 8. 5. The Butler talkes of Athalias spirit compares his opposites to her but surelie were not his eyes blinded with the vnlawfull loue of his deare Delilah he might see that the similitude holds better another way Did not that wicked woman occasion trobles in Israel c 2 King 11. by seekinge to put downe their right kinge set vp her selfe a vsurper murderer in the place of him now what else speake on your credit hath this idolatrous hearing don since the time it was hatched but like the thinge that God hates sowed discord among brethren d Pro. 6. 19. why because it tendeth to the putting downe of our true king Christ Iesus to rayse vp Antichrist againe that bloodie Tirant 2. Touchinge the personall wronge here offered to his opposites as naming them the enemies of God church renters schisme-makers matching them with most notorious sinners publishinge to the world private thinges purposelie to disgrace them I thinke this not worthy of answere the men are now at rest besides such was their good walking when they liued as that his vncharitable tongue and pen cannot weakeÌ„ their wel deserued praise among the saints that knew them Notwithstanding sober words would better haue becommed him Is this religion is this conscience is this charitie To tell in the eares of the world priuate things against brethren Methinkes the
Idolatrous act although in the mean time he exercise an antichristian office hence this must follow viz soe the truth be preached it is no matter whether the preacher bee sent from Antichrist or from Christ nor whether he preach at Dan and Bethell or at Ierusalem in the temple For if the former committ no idolatrous act hee is then as blamles in his way as the latter is in his Better the Treat had spared his words and lookd better to his answere or eat them both then to blott paper and abuse the reader with such unsound and hurtfall assertions SECT 6. OVr 4. Objection is laid downe for vs thus Hee that heares them preach heares them as ministers of the Church of England and as sent by the Bishops and soe in hearing them heares receaves them that sent them according to that of our Saviour hee that heares you heares me and hee that dispiseth you dispiseth me and hee that dispiseth mee dispiseth him that sent mee It was some addition to Davids n 1 Sam 17 51. victory over the Philistime that he slew him with his owne sword The taâ—ke is very easie to coÌ„fute all that the Treat here writes against vs by the engine of his owne acknowledgements For to say the truth Howsoever hee frames Objections for vs yet originally they are his owne and even word for word published by himself in former books to the world so that Obliquus cursus forgetting as it were What he had before held and written he makes himselfe in this controversie his owne greatest opposite Thâ—t this Objection can call no man Father so properly as the Treat Jt is certane for to my knowledge no man but himselfe hath used it Indeed he hath done it and applyed iâ—to the same purpose that he brings it here for us that is against the Hearing of unlavvfull Ministers His words are these o Manumiss to a Manuduct pag 9. If it belong to the chief Prelates to call Ministers that in calling them they give them power and authority though no absolute charge to preach according to the order of that Church Then followeth it undeniably that those Ministers thus preaching doo therein exercise the Prelates power And that it may be said of the Ministers Bishops as Christ said of his Disciples and himselfe that whosoever receives them that are sent receives them that sent them In submitting unto or withdrawing from him that is sent by the King in a worke of his Office men doe submitt unto or with-draw from the King himselfe and his authority So it is in all estates and subordinations whether Ecclesiasticall or Civill as every one that is not dimme in himselfe may see by the light of nature So writes the Treat Now let us see how he confutes himselfe I grant the former part of the Objection Treat and account the denying of it a point of Familisme seeing the Officers of publique states in the executing of their offices are to be esteemed according to the publick Lawes and Orders of those states and not according to any under hand course or intention either by themselves or others Answ A man that goes with a vaile before his eyes comes now and then into his waye although he know it not The Treat in this walke about Hearing in false Churches is sometimes cut otherwhile in he sayes and unsayes But so farre as he speakes the truth he speakes it against himselfe for his answer here it is nothing but a yeelding the case in some compasse and circumlocution of words and that the Reader may perceive it is so I will make it obvious and cleare to him by an argument or two and first thus If to heare Antichristian Ministers be to serve God in and by an ordinance way or institution devised by idolaters and with idolaters Then is it unlawfull But the first is true therefore the second The proposition is undeniable by the Treat owne confession For he grants that 〈◊〉 course of hearing is no ordinance left us by Christ Then 〈◊〉 it must be from Antichrist Againe he professeth they 〈…〉 as they preach and preach as Ministers of the 〈…〉 according to the publicke 〈…〉 is to speake 〈…〉 forme religious worship to God in and by a publick ordinance way and state which idolaters have invented and with idolaters This I say aperto pectore he grants to the full And no marvaile for to deny it were an audacious fiction monstrous unparelled presumption and would marke a man out for an Athesticall Familist as perspicuous as the leprosie of Vzziah which brake forth in his forehead The Assumption is as manifest For 1. by the Scriptures a Deu. 12. 30. Levit 18. 3. Exo. 23. 24. Levit. 9 27. 28. Deu. 14. 1 Levit. 19. 17. Gen. 35. 2. 3. Esa 27. 9. wee are prohibited from all conformitie with idolaters in any of their wayes order and manner of worship and Religious Observations It was the custome b Herodot in Thalia Becan in analog vet nov Test c. 15. of the Arabians and other Heathens in imitation of Dyonisius that is Bacchus to round the corners of their head Now this the Israelites might not doe c Levit. 19. 27. though in it selfe an indifferent thing d Calvin in Levit. 19. 17. because God would not have them to bee like idolaters This also may be further proved by the testimonie of learned men For to have any thing common with idolaters or to serve God after any way of theirs Or to take up and make use of any of their rites orders observations institutions for to worshipp God in or by them they hold to be unlawfull Yea howbeit a man be not in Ecclesiasticall union with them Thus have the old Fathers affirmed e Tertull de Coron Milit. Greg. lib. 1. Epist 44. ad Leon. Theod l. 1. c. 10. August Epist 86. ad Casul So our later writers Calvinists f Pareus in 1 Cor. 10 14. Bucer in Mat. 18. fol. 143. Beza Tract Theol. vol. 3. pag. 210. Lutherans g Cent. 4. c. 13 col 406. Chemnâ—t Exam. Theol. Melanct. par 2. pag. 491. formall Protestants h B. Iewell upon 1. Thes 5. p. 219. Sulclief Chal. pag. 62. in England Reformists i Perth assemb p. 55. 56. Alt. Damas p. 539. Papists k Bellar. de Monach. c. 40. de effect sacr l. 2. c. 31. Sect. 10. Rhemist annot on 1. Cor. 6. 14. 1. Timot. 6. Sect. 4. in Apoc. 1. 10. and Schoolemen l Aquin. 1. 2 a. q. 102. Art 6. c. 6. m. yea many Iew-Doctors m See Mr. Ainsworth in Levit. 19. 27. some Councils n Toledo Can. 5. 40. Laod. c. 38. Brac. Can. 32. 73. have thus concluded and the Cannon-Law o Deer Par. 2. Caus 26. quaest 7. c. 13. c. 14. c. 17. speakes so too And here I desire the Reader to observe that were the grounds true which
great Nations have beene converted by men and women out of office As a great Nation of the Indians by Aedesius Frumentius The Country of Iberians by a captive woman And here by the way this may serve to his demaund Let them tell us where they have received their faith We answer the wind bloweth where it listoth Sure we are faith we had when we left our unsanctified standings there But if any should hence affirme that we had it by hearing false Ministers he should shew follie and rashnes Secret things a Deu. 29 29. belong to the Lord Quae supra nos nihil ad nos Augustine b Melius est dubitare de occultis quam litagare de incertis Lib 8 c. 5. de Trinit adviseth us well It is better to doubt of secret things then to strive for uncertainè things If the Pist had minded this I thinke he would not have written so peremptorie in a matter unknowne 4. Where reads he in Gods Booke that men are named visible saints and judged firt matter for Church estate they being in the mean while actually members of false Churches and practise dayly grosse idolatry I thinke with the Treatiser c Iustific Separ pag. 269. true visible Christians have Christ for their King visibly or in outward appearance so far forth as men can judge For by visible we mean that which may be seen of men opposed to invisible which only God seeth for Christ is not divided but looke to whom he is a Priest to save them and a Prophet to teach them to the same persons he is also a King to reigne over them That Christ then should be said to be a King unto any people continuing members of Antichrists Kingdome Or that such ought to be deemed visible saints and firt matter for a true Church which live under a false Ministerie Worship and Government For my part as yet I cannot see reason for it But thinke the word is against it * Rev. 14 45 Ephes 2 20. Deu. 33 3 Esa 4 34 Rom. 1 7. 1 Cor. 1 2 Philip. 1. 1 If a man should give up his name unto a Vsurper take his part obey his precepts joyne with him in rebellion and treason May he for all this be counted and that justly a visible good subject unto his King To me it is fide majus For his wordy and windy insultation That any man may blush for shame that shall deny this I passe it by wishing him hereafter to lay things downe according to allegata probata Let the Scripture speake d Sanctis Scripturis non loqueÌ„tibus quis loquitur Ambr. de vocat Gent. l 2 c. 3 Tom. 2. in the points between us For without it nothing is to be affirmed e Omne quod loquimur debemus affamare de Scripturis sanctis Hierom. in Ps 98 Tom. 8. and beyond it nothing to be concluded f Nihil ultra quam sacris literis proditum est definiendum Erasm in Hiliar Gods vvord alone is certaine other proofes uncertaine and false if they discent from it g Solum Dei verbum certum caetera falsa si dissentiaÌ„t Ferus in Epist ad Roma c. 3. p. 303. 5. Howsoever it is true as Polanus h Comment in Ezech. cap. 16 pag. 365. Deering i 23. Lecture on Epistle to the Hebr. Whitaker k Rom. Pont. Cont. 4 Quaest 5 pag. 681. and others say in a false Church by the preaching there some sometimes are brought to the faith yet with these I deny that this is an ordinarie worke but rather extraordinarie The reason is because their hearers generally by their Doctrines are kept in blindnes idolatry wilworship c. So that they fit not members to true Churches but unfit them rather For no sooner see they a man to set his face that way but they seeke immediately to keepe him from it nolens volens either by flatterie persecution or the like Lastly if there be any weaght of reason in his words they make then against himselfe and quite overthrow his owne cause And thus I prove it No man can lawfully heare false Ministers unlesse he know before hand that they have and doe ordinarily begit men to the faith But such fore-knowledge is not to be had Ergo c. The proposition is certaine by his owne grant For the maine ground whereon the whole weaght of his matter relyeth is this viz that some Antichristian Ministers ought to be heard because they have and doe ordinarily begit men to the Faith Now this must needs be understood of that which is visible for otherwise nâ—que Coelum neque terram attingit he speakes idly and from the point The Assumption cannot possiblie be denyed except men wil be senceles For who can say upon certaine knowledge that any false Minister in the world hath and doth ordinarily begit men to the faith Thus the man is snared in his owne words And may say with the Poet Heu patior telis vulnera facta meis Before I end this point I thinke iâ— good to present here unto the Readers view one observation or two from the Pist Argument 1. Howsoever he sayth but litle yet that which he sayth is so abstruse darke full of evasions and starting holes as a man cannot tell what to make of it He sends us to the effect of preaching But to what end is this What light What information can a man take hence considering that as God is the Authour of true faith so the time instruments meanes c. by which he exhibiteth it unto man is knowne only to himselfe and not to others of others Indeed here we may observe a cleare difference between truth falsehood Between Christs institutions and mans inventions Whatsoever God will have us to doe or not doe he layes downe the same openly precisely manifestly All the words l Pro. 8. 9. of his mouth are plaine unto him that understandeth The spirit speaketh expresly m 1. Tim. 4 1. Non obscurè in voluiè Sed manifestè praecriptè praecise sayth Guiliaâ—dus n Comment on good the place VVhereunto accordeth Augustine o Divinitus visuÌ„ est ut sacra Oracula simplici pershicuo exararentur dictionu â—enere ne praetendere quisquam possit nihil a se in illis intelligs Ad vonsianum It was thought good unto Almighty God that the Scriptures should be penned in a simple and plaine kind of speach least any man should pretend that he could understand nothing in them Another p Sam Bachiler Serm. Campe Royall p. 36. Gods Oracles are plaine and labour with no ambiguities like those of Pyrrhus and Croesus whereof no certaine meaning could be gathered That the truth is simple and plaine Ethnickes by the light of nature could sufficiently see into such things One of them touching this matter saith thus q Veritatis sermo est simplex apertus nec varijs
of God What is the reason that some men doe seeke after the truth as a coward doth his enemie loath to find him But because loving their owne conceit as Apes their yong ones beyond measure they are not willing to heare of any thing that is said against it We see in nature he that will heare well must stopp his breath It is so in things spirituall if a man will not keep in his breath I meane set aside conceitednes selfe-love be willing to embrace the truth though it be contrarie to that which he formerly held he shall not profit by any thing he heareth or readeth but like Pharoahs◠kine remaine lean ilfavored still Things in the earth will grow as they find roome A Light in the dampes of mines goeth out Thus stands the case with men when any good helpe is pur into their hands If their hearts then be free of selfe-love spirituall pride personall prejudice base desire of vaine glorie and humaine applause c. They will profit by it Contrariwise if their hearts like a deepe hole be full of those filthy Foggs Mists the truth then how clearely soever it shine will dampe quench in them as a light in the mines of the earth 4. Civile dig 4. de legib Senatusque consult Whereas the Civil Lavv saith it is uncivil for any man not having vveighed the vvhole Lavv to give advice or judgement some one parcel of it alone proposed I doe therefore intreat the Reader to forbeare his Censure till he have read the whole booke over And if it be so that he thinkes in some point I have erred as who liveth erreth not I would not have him for such a particular fayling to condemne the whole But let that beare its owne burden and let the rest be received as after due trial the same shal be found agreeable to the Word of God I speake not this as beeing privy to any known crime this way But because I am privy to many known wants great weaknesses in my selfe Besides it is the manner of some if they can spy some thing not well handled in another mans writing to take such advantage as hereby they seeke to bring the whole under reproofe and condemnation Of this shal be all their talke at this they will gird and jest not beeing able in the meane time to take away the force of any one of the maine arguments Neither indeed dare to attempt it but like the snaile keepe in their hornes 5. I thinke good to speake here a little concerning the manner of this answer And that no man may be offended as it I doe professe in the Word of truth that it hath much greeved me all along the discourse to speake so much of the Treatiser whose learning I doe much reverence But the cause beeing the Lords and I seeing how much it lay upon me to take away the Maskes and visards whereby many have been deceived I have done my best to shew the absurdities contradictiōs unskilfulnes daungerousnes of that Treatise And for this not sparing but speaking home I have had some reasons for it as partly here follow 1. Because the Booke containes a pernitious most hurtfull errour and by how much it is caried forth under a colourable shew of a pious and godly practice by so much the more hath it caused many greevious long lasting miseries I know there are many viler errours dayly maintained But if we respect mens walking in the Holie Order of the Gospell this is a main stumbling block barre in the way to it There are some humours which some where placed in the body are quiet and doe little hurt but in other places specially in the passage they doe much mischiefe This errour is as a corrupt humour fallen into the passage of the bodie the Church and therefore it must needs be the more perilous 2. I have spoken the more plainely against it because they say there are manie in England and in other Countries who hold it unlawfull to be present at their divine service and to receive the Sacraments in the Parish-Churches and yet thinke it lawfull to heare the Ministers of that Church Now if such men have as had David tender hearts and hearts that will smite them for a little They will surely come off from this too Seeing I have here proved that the ground they build on is very sand and their pleading for it wants both Religion reason 3. Such a general fame is gone forth of the booke as to be so learnedly absolutely done that it gives all men satisfaction some few riged spirits only excepted that no man would ever be able to make any sound reply to it And for my selfe I have been by name chalenged as it were to answer with much base insulation as if I d urst rather eate my pen then put my pen to write against it And this both before my thoughts were setled on thing and since too Now whether the worke be according to the praise of it let all indifferent men judge 4. Seeing it is given out but me thinkes it should not be true that there are some learned men which plead for the Hearing of false Ministers and upon the Treat grounds I have therefore discovered the sleightnes of it to say no worse the more That such if there be any such may see their errour If not reply if they please when they wil. But for the person or persons that shall reply These 3 things I desire may be considered 1. That they change not the state of the question which is not whether it be lawfull to heare the Ministers of the church of England or of Rome or of any Church But taking it granted a Church to be false the Ministerie Antichristian vvhether Hearing in such a case be lawfull For the question now stands thus no otherwise 2. J exspect an answer in a more honest fairer way then I had the last time namly by a sort of gnats * It hath beē objected as I heare that I should answere dead mē now how so ever it is wel known that my former booke was both finish ed and at the Presse before Dr. Ames death yet say I had writen after his death doe not all mē know that in points of differēces we haue respect to the matter it self no to any person on either side holding the same whom I felt but never saw the Law of God and Light of Nature teacheth Quod tibi vis fieri hoc facias alteri Indeed it is a very unbeseeming thing that men who doe professe Religion learning should disgrace other mens worke behinde their backs shunning in the meane time the open light whereby their deeds might be made manifest As for such Replyers whose arguments are Trencher-squibs and reach only as farr as to the end of the table ‡ Not soe farr as to pen Inke paper to
28. P. Piâ—s the second u Abbaâ— Vespersâ—nâ—is p. 443. and Others In conclusion then seeing the hearing of vnlawfull Ministers is flat against scripture articles as we haâ—e partly manifested and God willing more will doe we â— must 〈◊〉 as Ierome x in Mat. 23 speakes it though it should in the meane time be iustified and practised by many Churches and people The second thing which he desires may be noted is that this hearing was not in the iudgement of the Church esteemed as a thinge that might not be borne with all Answ 1 The doctrine of the Nicolaitans which was a Trenan l. 1 27. Epiphanc 1. Tom. 1. Eâ—â—â—â— 3. 29. that adulterie and fornication were no sinnes and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their idol temples was not in the iudgment of the Churches at Pergamos and Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall was the same therfore good indeed such a conclusion we must either here gather from his wordes or conclude he knew not well what he wrote 2. To the iudgement of that Church when they wrote to London I may oppose their former and better iudgment ffor with reverence to the Phrase from the beginning this was not soe ffor in their constitution and many yeares after they held * Remember therfore from vvhâ—nce thou art fallen and repent and doe the first vvorkes Reu. 2. 5. hearing of vnlawfull Ministers a very vnlawful practise And so much appeares in sundry passages Published to the world by the Pastor himselfe And for the Readers better satisfaction I thinke it not amisse to sert downe their Owne words Those b Munumission to a manuduction pag. 5. who partake in the worke of Preaching of one sent by the Bp DOE PARTAKE IN WHAT LYETH JN THEM IN THE AVTHORITY OF THE SENDER Againe The authorite of Ministers in their Parishionall Churches c Page 4. may not be by Gods people partaken with no not in actions otherwise Lawfull vnder the paines of Babilons Plagues Againe in another booke d Religious Communion pag. 20. thus they write Let all them that feare God consider that when they come to worship in the Parish Assemblyes they joyne themselues where God hath not joyned them and doe acknowledge that societie for the Church of God and communion of saints which he hath not sanctifyed for that purpose and in saying ourfather with them they acknowledge them for the children of God who in the perswation of their consciences are of their father the divel And in the same booke a little after e pag. 32. Their very administrations by vnlawfull calling are the sinnes and so to PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR ADMINISTRATIONS IS TO PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR SINNES contrary to Timot. 5. 22. Reu. 14. 4. In their answere to Maister Barnerds booke thus they write largesie of this point f Justification of Separat pag. 78. 79. 80. â—e also page 17. 162. 276. 433. Some of which is as followeth But the thing which most grieves Mr. B and at which he hath greatest indignation Pap. 62. is that we will not heare his sermons though he preach nothing but the true word of God And so he desires to heare of vs where the hearing of the true word of God onely preached is sinn and forbidden by Christ or the Prophets or Apostles For answer hereof I would know first whether Mr. B. speaking here and in many other places of the true Word of God do means that God hath a true word and a false word or rather bewray not an accusing conscience that they in England have not the true word truely taught that is in a true office of Ministery Now for the demaund referring the reader for more full satisfaction to that which hath bene published at large by others I do answer that as it was vnlawfull to * Nâ—mb 16. 2. Câ— 26. 1 King 12. communicate with Corah or with vzziah though they offered true sacrifices so IS IT VNLAWFVL TO COMMVNICATE WITH ADEVISED MINSTERY WHAT TRVTH SOEVER IS TAVGHT IN IT Secondly the Lord hath promised no blessing to his word but in his owe ordinance though by his superaboundand mercy he oft tymes vouchsafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promise Thirdly * no man may partake in other mens sinns â—â—m 5. 12. but euery Ministery eyther devised or vsurped is the sinn of him which exerciseth it Rev. 18. 4. And as no good subject would assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civil Justice to the Kings subjects no not though he administred the same never so equally and indifferrently except the same person had commission from the King so to do so neyther ought the subjects of the kingdome of Christ to partake with any person whomsoever in the dispensation of any spirituall thing though in it self never so holy withot sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and sovereigne King of his Church Christ Iesus And where Mr. B. speaks of hearing the true word of God only preached he intimates therin that if we would heare him preach it would satisfy him well and so teacheth vs with himselfe and others to make a schisme in the Church in vsing one ordinance and not an other It is all one whether a man communicate with the minister in his pulpit or with the Chauncelor in his consistory both of them minister by the same power of the Bishop The Chauncelor may iudge justly who knowes whither or no the Minister will teach truely And if he doe not but speak the vision of his owne heart what remedy hath the Church or what can they that hear him do May they rebuke him openly according to his sin and so bring him to repentance or must they not beare his errors yea his heresyes also during the pleasure of the Bishops even their Lord his And would you Mr. B. be content your people should heare a masse-Priest or Jesuite though he professed as loud as you do that he would teach the true word of God And think not scorne of the match for you haue the selfe same office with a masse Preist though refyned If he be ordayned by a Bishop though it be the Bishop of Rome he may minister in any Church of England by vertue of that ordination Andbesides masse-Preists preach some and those the mayne truthes and the Ministers in England neither do nor dare preach all no nor some which it may be the others do Is it not better then for the servants of the L. Iesus to exercise and aedify themselves according to the model of grace receaved though in weaker measure then to be so simple as to come to your feasts though you cry never so loud vnto them thinking that because your stoln waters are sweet and your hidden bread pleasant that they have no power to passe by but must needs become your guests And here
to use the Pistlers words it is wel to be marked by the Reader how the Church when these thinges were written enioyed as a Pastor so a iudicious Ruling Elder too and their company greater by farre then it was when that letter was framed Such as write of the Government of Common-wealths doe hold it for a rule that to redresse abuses in any State a better Way cannot be taken then to haue thinges brought to their first institution Hence it is that the Venetians haue a supreame Magistracie which they call A Syndicate that once in a few yeares â— surveyâ— all the Offices and dignities in their wealth that so all things may continue and stand entyre according to the rules and precepts of their first Constitutions and Ordinances If the Pistler had desired the common good of that Church he would haue sought to haue had thinges reduced to their primitiue Originall and good beginning and not Mention as he doth their depriuations declinations departures * serâ—enâ— qualitas viâ—i dignoscitur as a rule for all Posterity to measure their faith and actions by It is an infallible maxime as D Vsher g De Christianor Eccl. success et statâ—â— cap. 1. pag. 19. and other obserue out of Tertullian h Id verum quodcunque primum id adultorum quod cunque posterius whatsoeuer is first that is truest and what comes after is adulterate The first in any kind or sort of thinges is truest and best so Feild 3. But admitt there were many that held this hearing lawfull and soo haue don along time what of this is the thing he better for that in no wiâ—e For not custome or multitudes must be followed but the truth of Gods word Walke ye not in the statutes of your fathers I. Of the Church l. 2. c. 5. p. 49. neither Obserue their iudgments nor defiâ—e your selues with their idols k Ezech. 20. The like precept we haue in 3 â—ch 11. Follow not that which is euil but that which is good Cyprian and others of the Fathers as they are called speake wel to this purpose we must l Non debemus attendeâ—e quid alius ante nos fâ—cerit aut faciendum putauerit sed quid ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit Cypâ— Epist 63. not regard what others did be fore vs or thought fitt to be don but what Christ did who was before all We Must m non est de consuetudene praescribendum sed ratione vin cendum Epist 74. not prescribe vpon custome but perswade by reason Whatsoeuer n Tertullian lib de viâ—g sauoreth against the truth it is heresie be the practice thereof neuer so ancient Non illa tantum in religione fugienda quae Verbo dei adversantur sed ea etiam quae verbo dei non sunt praescripta etiamsi ab acutissimis hominibus excogitata a doctissimis defensa et diuturna consu etudine recepta Not only in religion must we auoyd all thinges contrary to the word of God but also whatsoeuer is not therein prescribed o Polanus Comment in Ezec 20 pag 481. yea howbeit the same should be deuised by the acutest men defended by the most learned and receiued by long custome Then we serue God p. Fox Act. and mon p. 18 29. when in his worship we follow his word and not mans fantasies custome multitude c so Bradford the martyr Thus we haue according to his intreatie taken a vew of his two thinges the which are so vaine and frivelous as indeed deserued no answere yet least any of that faction should thinke we passed them over without any examintion because we feared the weight and force thereof I haue breiflie replyed and desire the humble and godly Reader to conâ—ider what both haue written SECTION 3. â—The Epistoler hauing ended his two obseruations prepareth now himselfe in the next place in earnest for disputation * Dulce bellâ—â—â— in expertis And first of all after some spitefull words cast on his opposites like Thraso in Terence who thought himselfe a none-such o. Metuebant omnes iam me in Eunuch and thereupon boastingly prayseth himselfe They are all affraid of me Act 3. sc 1. as if he had don some great peâ—ceâ— of seruice he daringlie prouokes who * Et calum territat armis Virg. in Aeneid will to reply if their stomacks serue And because he will speake omissis nugis to the purpose indeed He vndertakes to handle the point in controversie methodicallie that is to propound first his opposites obiections And afterwards to giue some answere to them First sayth he they obiect say that we hould the Church of England to be a false Church and the ministers thereof to be Antichristian and yet we goe thither to worship and this say they is absurd His answere hereto is Before wee answere directlie to this obiection we shall intreat the Reader and themselues to consider of what followes Answ we read of one Doria the Admiral of Genua that fighting at sea against the Sarasens he fetched his course so farre about to gaine the wind that he could neuer come to strike a blow before the battle was ended The Epist is here fallen into such a wild and wandring course for seeking to get some advantage by windy wordes he goes quite away from the thing which he propounded and comes not againe to speake either much or little of it But no maruaile our new maister * It seemes the Pist is one of Antontes scholers mentioned in Tullie vvho vvisheth men if they be trobled about a hard question to say nothing to it hath shewed vs such a trick Cic de orat l. 2 the truth is as one a D. Couel Church Gouerment c 1 p 5 speakes in the like case he made the obiection stronger then he was able to answere Better therfore to be silent then light a candle to discouer his owne nakednes But it may be he or others of that side wil be the more willing to reply if they shall se this argument laid downe in some better forme If that will doe it we will doe our best to make way for them Thus then we reason To worship God in any other way or manner then he hath in his word prescribed is vnlawfull But to heare Antichristian Ministers in false Churches is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed Therefore it is a sinne to doe it The maior no man dares deny I assure my selfe For it is manifest and certane by the whole course of the scriptures Deu 12. 8. Leuit. 10. 20. psa 119 133 Mic. 7. 18 Hos 9. 15 Ihon 4. 23. mat 15. 3. 4. Colos 2 8. 2 Ioh. 16. 17. Moreouer all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this For a truth Zanchy b Explicat in Coloss 2â— 23. pag. â—19 Toâ—â— 4 saith Deus et solus vult coli et eo solo
indiget explicationibus ambagibus sed iniusta causa cum per se sit morbida necessario indiget astutis pharmacis Euripid. The truth is simple and plaine and needeth is not variety of windlaces and feâ—chings of matter about the bush But an evill cause in that it is sick and deseased hath need to have a cunning plaster set unto it Another r Aristo of them hath these words That phrase and forme of speaking hath truth in it which is common and used of all having in it nothing craftily devised neither cloking some other thing then is professed Contrariwise when Satan speaketh by his instruments he speaketh so ambiguously and clokedly as fitly that of Apollos Oracle may be applied to it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * Quod ambiguis ambagibus respoÌ„sa consulentibus daret For one knowes not how to take it nor which way to apply it Pertinently to this purpose writes Sibelius s Desacrific Abra. p. 56 57. Humaine Doctrines are various and ambiguous wrapped and foalded with abstruse labrynths of opinions whereby peoples minds are so troubled and tyred that they cannot plainly open themselves neither have any quietnes or come to their desired end But the Doctrine of God is right that is plaine and perspicuous not wrapped with un-even and crooked suttleries and delusions of Sophistrie neither leads us into by-pathes and errours but bringeth peace to the conscience ad removeth à ll scruples and doubts So he Sadeel t Opera Theol Pref. de Meth. Theol. disput Error 3. p. 8. writing of deceivers the sundry wayes they use to beguile the simple Notes them to be men affecting darke sayings and seeking by mists and fogges of strange unfamiliar arguments to blind their spirituall eyes and puzzle their understandings And this is no late devise For Augustine in his Booke of Heresies maketh mention of the Hereticks Marcitae so named of one Marcus And touching them thus I find it written v Obscurissime quibusdaÌ„ verborum tanquam misteriorum in volueris utentes loquebantur de Deo ut stupereÌ„t audientes homines potius quaÌ„ intelligerent They did speake darkly and used such a wrapping kind of words that the hearers were rather astonied with the strangnes of the words then edified with any understanding they had of the meaning thereof The thing being thus the Reader hence as by a light may gready helpe himselfe to discerne on whose side the truth is in the difference between us Our dispute is about Church-hearing We say that Christians are bound to performe this service unto God in true constituted Churches There we say must men heare the whole Counsell of God taught unto them either by lawfull Ministers or by Brethren out of office For confirmation hereof we can produce many divine precepts Also the Example and practice of our forefathers from the first age of the word hitherto Besides this is a Position so certaine and cleare as it is holden in all Schooles written continually in Bookes preached every day in Sermons taught in all Churches So that haec Momo ipsi satisfaciant no body can speake against it Danaeus in August haer Our Opposites howbeit they grant us this yet affirme that in false Churches Antichristian Ministers may be heard also * Pag. 3. And this is not only they say lawfull but in some cases necessary for all of all Sects and sorts of Christians having opportunity and occasion of so doing This indeed they say But how prove they it to be true Not by any law of God taken out of the old or new Testament For that they cannot doe Not by any holy mans Example for they know there is none extant Not by any sound consequence rightly drawne from the Scripture for quid si Caelum ruat x Teren. in Heautont that is impossible VVhat doe they then as Ieremy y Ier. 2 13. sayth they forsake the fountaine of living waters and hew them out cesternes broken cèsternes that can hold no waters They devise certaine obstruse darke and ambiguous phrases and distinctions As of naturall hearing in a Church and of a hearing wherein there is Communion Of some Churches false in respect of order Others in respect of fayth and order of hearing false Ministers not quatenus as they are false Ministers or their Ministers but as men gyfeed and the Bishops Ministers of certaine effects which followes mens teaching c. Thus their proofes are only their bare and bould affirmation For leaving the Scriptures they use Paralogismes fond cavils and false arguments The which course not only shewes an il case but also manifesteth that the embracers thereof are either ignorant people who cannot judge of things that differ or some that have some mens persons in admiration Or such as are unwilling to suffer affliction with the people of God I could here mention some other devises in this kind as an implicit Church-covenant A true outward calling which some have to the Ministery from their Congregation but secret and unknowne either to the Minister or the people But I will at this time abstaine from such by-controversies and the rather because I shall have a firt occasion to speake hereafter of it Namely when the Vndertakers have finished their answer to my former Booke and Mr. Davenport published his many things that he hath to say against it For so much he insinuateth in his Treatise betweene him and Mr. Pagit * Pag. 282 283. 2. Observe againe to what grosse absurdities his argument leadeth For unles it be only wind and vanitie these sweet collections must needs follow 1. No Minister comming newly to his place is to be heard 2. Before any are inquirie must be made whether they ordinarily begit men to the faith 3. If after triall it be found that they doe not so then they must not be heard what true Doctrines soever they teach Is not this workman-like done say Reader hath not the Pist omne tulit punctum made the way cleare now for the hearing of false Ministers Truely I thinke except a man be partiall in the point And of his mind who said z Non persuade bis eâ—i imsi persuaseris Though you doe convince me yet I will not be convinced He must acknowledge that he hath made it doubt fuller then ever it was and such as were not well satisfied formerly in the thing have enought here from his owne pen to put them quite and wholy off SECTION 5. THe Pist having done with his Logick comes in the next place to charge his Opposites with contradiction absurdity and speaking little better then Blasphemy A great fault if true But how doth he prove it They say it is not the Word of God as it is preached in Antichristian Assemblies Answ The Publish had done well if he had published out assertion de manu in manum truely and faithfully But seeing he hath not done so I will here lay it downe
well that doe it For if the Temple made with hands defiled through idolatrie was odious unto God how much more will he loth our Spirituall Temples not made with hands if we suffer them to be polluted with filthy superstition But so absolutely we shall doe if we doe the thing which the Treat here contends for A good man saith Ambrose m Lib 5. Epist 30. will be earnest and Zealous against idolatry Another saith n Bradshavv on 2 Thes 2 p. 130. The better a man is the more carefull will he be to withdraw himselfe from it These witnesses are true Fourthly there are some to be found so sowred with modines and discontentment Treat as they become unsociable If they see nothing lamentable they are ready to lament If they reade any Bookes they are onely invectives specially against publicke Saâ—es and Governours Ansvv 1. As to be unsociable is inhumaine and brutish so to be carelesse with whome we joyne in communion is sinfull and vicious A traviler were better goe alone then have one in his company that should rob him and cut his throat 2. This is not an age which wants cause of just lamentation considering not onely the evils without but what perverse things are brought into the Churches of God whereby poore people are dayly deceived 3. That we should looke into publicke States and Governours there is reason for it and specially if the same be Ecclesiasticall for else how can we walke as men of knowledge and hold fast onely that which is good Lastly Treat some thinke to cover their owne both grosser and more proper and personall corruptions under a furious march not onely against the faylings but the persons also failing of infirmity in matter of Church-order and Ordinances Ansvv I suppose by Church-ordinances and Order he meanes the Ministerie Worship and Government under Antichrist Now that some of ignorance submit to these things there is nothing more certaine notwithstanding this gives not allowance to others others knowing better to doe so too If there failing be of infirmity there is the more hope of their reformation I meane when they shall heare the truth taught and see the Teachers walke closely in it In conclusion the Treat pleas the Rhetorician and makes a shew as if he could say more but he will spare his opposites Ansvv As for his minsing figure of extenuation to let much passe I like it not For he doth here no otherwise then if a Theese when he hath stript a man out of all that he hath would faine yet be counted mercifull in that he doth not murder him or bind him as some others have done Let any indifferent man read his writing and he will say the Treat hath not spared his opposites but short at them arrowes of bitter words and made them as odious and vile as a man can doe But blessed is he that is not offended at the truth for such things SECT 2. THE Objections undertaken to be answered by the Treatiser are as he layes them downe of two sorts Some of them are framed upon supposition that the Ministers in that Church are in themselves Lawfull and of God But yet not to be heard by reason of the abuses evils to be found in their administrations Others with-draw herein and those the more upon the contrarie supposition to wit that the very order and constitution of that Church and Ministery is papall and unlawfull Ansvv For the first I have nothing to say to it It beeing a point beside our present dispute Againe for my part I am of his minde in the thing that is to use his owne expression Supposing a Church and the Ministerie thereof essentially lawfull it cannot but be lawfull for the members of other Churches in generall union and association with it to communicate therewith in things lawfull and lawfully done seeing the end of union is communion God hath in vaine united persons and states together But he who would have us receave the weake in faith whom God hath receaved would not have us refuse the fallowship of Churches in that which is good for any weaknes in them of one sort or other And this we have so plainly and plentifully commended unto us both by the Prophets yea by Christ himselfe in the Iewish Church and Apostles and Apostolicall men in the first Christian Churches In which many errours and evils of all kindes were more then manifest and the same ofttimes both so farre spread and deeply rooted as the reforming of them was rather to be wished then hoped for as that no place is left for doubting in that case by any who desire to follow their holy steps in faith towards God and charitie towards men and effectuall desire of their owne edification What he here writes is surely true for the Scriptures approve not of rending away from true Churches for any corruption I use the word any because so long as we acknowledge the Church to be true whatsoever her sinnes are a separation from all communion with it is utterly unlawfull Our godly Predicessours had in them the zeale of God and love of his truth * Two things I would know of these meÌ„ 1. Whether they thinke not that the primitive Christians were as zealous and sincere as themselves 2. Whether they thinke not that the Churches from vvhome they separate have as fevv if not fevver corruptions then such Churches had in vvhich the Apostles and other godly people dayly communicated But how shewed they it Not by forsaking their Brethren for offences but in witnessing against them and seeking their reformation But now ah that I could not say it some men know not how their zeale like Iehues may be seene of men unlesse they make publick Schismes in Churches and this many times not for any sinne that they can justly prove the Church to be in but upon discontentment and because they cannot have their way and will But of this no more now For I purpose if God spare my life to set forth a Treatise touching this very point The Treatiser in pag. 23 Treat would have us consider distinctly of Religious actions according to the severall Rankes in which they may rightly orderly be sett And how we should conceive of them a little after he tels us thus Some such actions are Religious only as they are performed by Religious persons And of this sort is Hearing and so Reading of Gods Word The Scriptures teach and all confesse that Hearing of the Word of God goes before Faith for Faith comes by Hearing as by an outward meanes Hearing then beeing before Faith and Faith before all other acts of Religion inward or outward it must needs follow that Hearing is not simply or of it selfe a worke of Religion and so not of Religious Communion Answ That the Reader may the better perceive how greatly the Treat was deceived in this matter of Hearing as to thinke it not to be of Religious Communion
have proved before that howsoever a man stand not in spirituall and politicall church communion with a Church and ministery thereof yet he is there a participant or communicant in and with the ordinances as with the doctrines taught so with the state of the Teacher For the better clearing of this Let vs in few words consider a Church state Ministery and administrations make vp as I may so say the body of divine worship Now it is a knowne Maxime quidquid est pars partis est etiam pars tâ—tius The hand is a part of the body the finger a part of the hand he therefore that holds either my hand or finger toucheth my body So in iust proportion hee that toucheth any part or member of the spiritual politicall body hee toucheth the body or state bee the same true or false if true his communion is lawfull if false he toucheth an uncheane thing and â—oâ— sinneth against that precept in 1. Cor. 6. 17. To end this Section howsoever hearing of the word of God lies in common for all for the good of all Yet hath God appointed away and order vnto all how to heare it Food and rayment lies in common to all for the good of all What of this shall wee hence conclude it is noe matter by what meanes or course men have it indeed so he reasoneth or else Oleum et operam perdidit he speaketh neither for himselfe nor against vs. Mr. Baines f Diocesen triall p. 7. writes well no people can worship God in repairing to any Church or ministery without warrant of his word Let the reader note it SECT 3. THe Treatiser for this opposities hath framed 16 objections the which as himselfe saith * Pag. 13. he hath either heard from others or could conceiue of himselfe ooulerably against the practice by him propounded The first is laid downe thus No man may submit his conscience to be wrought vpon Object 1. by an unlawfull and antichristian ministery neither hath God promised or doth afford †These vvords in a different letter are the Treat ovvne and vve disclaime them any blessing upon it neither can any have the sanctified vse thereof His answere hereto is this The office of the ministery workes not vpon the conscience of the hearer properly the office gives onely power and charge to the Teacher to teach in such aplace it resides in the person of the officer alone the communion lawful or unlawfull which any hath with it is in regard of the lawfull or unlawfull relation and vnion foregoing between the persons and not in any working of the office vpon the conscience of any God may and doth blesse the truths taught fauls ministers Answ It was Heiroms k Paulum quotiescunque lego videor mihi non verba audire sed tonitrua cont Iovinian censure of Pauls Epistles that when hee read them He thought he heard not words but Thunder This cannot be well applied to his reply here For should I speake my conscience it is a meere Phrasiologie words without weight of reason 1. He denies our first assertion But how cleares he it to the contrarie As is his ground so are his proofes Only bare saying Sit pro ratione voluntas That the Office of the Minister workes upon the Hearers conscience It is certaine and not to be denyed without losse of credit both to the person and cause of the denyer in the eye of all reasonable men l Exo. 28. For this is evident by the Scriptures whether we respect an Office true or false Ephes 4 11. 2 Thes 2 Rev. 9. Againe if it be considered what we meane by the Office working upon the conscience Common reason will prove it too Our meaning is that the state or povver by which he administers is herein submitted too As Magistrates are obeyed in civill Justice because of their calling and were it not for it men could not for conscience sake receive their administrations So the conscience of a Hearer is brought in subjection to the ordinance of Hearing even for the Office sake of him that teacheth We intend here Ministeriall teaching It is most certaine saith one m Mr. Peitry of the Ministery of the Church of England Pag. 37. 38. Satan ruleth in the consciences of men not only by false doctrine but also by his false power and ordinances His Kingdome of darknes not only consisteth in the lies and false doctrine and worship which he hath coyned but also in the false and Antichristian Ordinances which he hath invented for the ruling of his Idolatrous denne And therefore the Children and Saints of God ought to avoyd both the one and the other So hee 2. It is not true that the Office only gives power and charge to the Teacher to teach in such or such a Church-state For properly it respects not that at all but rather the Office of the person gives him power to preach pray administer the Sacraments c. according to their Order and Canons He that that hath not a Church-state to preach in yet beeing ordained Preist hath power by his Office to doe the worke of a Preist any where And so much the Treat n Manumis to a Manuduct p. 70. in another Booke acknowledgeth The Office is the very state and function conferred upon a man by his calling from which Office ariseth immediate * Note this power and charge to administer and to performe the works of that Office In the performance of which workes the Office is executed power used And whereas he mentioneth here the truths they teach J grant these are from God but the Office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist And a speciall Character or Marke as the Learned o Mr. Symon on the Rev. pag. 120. write of the Beast Thus said Iohn Chaydon p Acts and Monuments Edict 5. pag. 588. a Martyr of Christ The Bishops license to preach the Word of God is the true Character of the Beast that is of Antichrist The like Mr. Bale q On Revel chap. 14. 9. and others 3. Whereas he saith the false Office resides in the person of the Officer alone Here I might take that exception of the Law r In testimon dig de testibus against him They who wander against the credis of their owne Testimonies are not to be heard Against this we have his owne testimony For thus he saith s Manumiss to a manuduct pag. 5. those that pertake in the worke of preaching of one sent by the Bishops doe pertake in what lyeth in them in the authority of the sender And this is so indeed The sinfull Office of the Teacher becomes his sinne who practiseth will-worship with him For hereby hee enwraps himselfe into the guilt of the Office And this thing by another is so clearely proved t Treatise of the Ministery of the church of EnglaÌ„d by Fran Iohnson Pag. 5 6 7
c. as no man can deny it that hath any light of reason or Religion shining in him 4. What can be vainer said our enimies themselves beeing Iudges then to say God may and doth blesse the truths taught by false Ministers A posse ad esse nâ—n valet consequentia To reason thus is both against Logick and Divinitie To dispute saith King Iames u A speech in Parliament anno 1609. what God may doe is blasphemy but quid vult Deus that divines may Lawfully and doe ordinarily dispute and discourse It never came into our hearts to thinke that God may not blesse the Truths taught by false Ministers But this we hold he hath not in his Word promised any blessing unto it And in this Luther is with us God blesseth not saith he x CoÌ„ment in Galat. cap. 1. pag. 42. meaning by any ordinary promise their labour who are not lawfully called to the Ministery The injunction y Injunction 3. of Q. Elizabeth set forth by publick authority is much to this purpose Workes devised by mans fancie so is every unlawfull Ministerie and condemned as Cartwright z Christ Cateâ—h of Râ—lig chap. 16. Pag. 98 saith in the second commandement have not only no promise of reward for doing of them but contrariwise great threatnings maledictions of God The Treatiser a Iustificat of Separ pag. 79. was of this opinion too when he said The Lord hath promised no blessing to his Word but in his owne Ordinance though by his super abundant merey he oft-times vouchsafe that which no man can chalenge by any ordinarie promise And because the Treat is here so breife a touch and away As if our Objection had no weaght I will therefore lay the argument downe in this manner Such Churches unto whome God hath made no promise in his Word to blesse the things there done ought not by Gods people to be resorted to But God in his Word hath made no promise to blesse the things done in a false Church Therefore Gods people are not to goe unto false Churches The Proposition cannot be excepted against For 1. The Scriptures prove it clearely * Ier. 23 21 22. Againe there is no duty charged upon us Ex. 20 24 but there is a blessing promised Psa 134 3 147 13. unto the due performance of it The assumption is as cleare and thus we prove it If false Churches have not the promise of Gods presence they cannot from the Word of God exspect his blessing upon what they doe But the first is true Ergo the second The Major which is only controversall wee prove thus If every false Church be an Idoll b Exo. 20. 45. and God require his people to come out thence c Rev. 18 4. threaten to destroy it d Rev. 20. 8 9. and will doe it and promise his presence unto the true Church e Mat. 18. 20. Then is he not present * We mean such a presence of God as by his Word we can be sure of it in the false But the first is true therefore the second Here I might name sundry learned Men who give witnes to this thing Christ saith Raynolds f De Rom. Eccles idolat l. 2. c. 1. pag. 99. the Pastor of his Chruch doth tell us that he feeds not in Antichristian assemblies in the denne of Theeves neither is it his will that his flock should there rest at noone But in the pleasant pasture by the still waters that is in the shadowes of the true Christian Churches detesting idolatry Another thus They that doe usurpe Ministeriall function in the Church g Dr. Slater on Rom. 1. Pag. 8. cannot exspect Gods blessing on their labour Doctor Ames layes it downe as a reason why a lawfull calling is necessary namely that so they may exspect a blessing from God It is true which these men say for our ground for Hearing in church way is not because the speaker is a man gifted able to open and apply the scriptures c But because that which he doth is a a divine institution an ordinance charged on vs to practice to which God hath promised his presence and blessing Let our opposites shew vs where it is writen that the gyfts and personall graces of the man is sufficient to iustifie the hearing of him * We intend Ministeriall teaching a Chap. 23 2. but rather the reason wherefore we he are him is because of the lawfull calling which he hath to administer the holy things of God Our Saviour as it appeares by Matthew approves of the hearing of the Scribes and Pharisees But upon what ground not because they were able to open and apply the doctrines of Faith by that Church professed but as Piscator saith because they were called and ordained of God Adeo vocati at que constituti suâ—t vt legem Mosis in Synagogis populo praelegant cumque ad 〈◊〉 observationem exhâ—â—tentur Analis in Mat. 23 v. 2. that they should preach the Law of God in the Sinagogues to the people and exhort them to the observation thereof-Aretius on the place saith the like and adds their calling bound the people to heare them Soe then here wee see that men being lawfully called to the ministery are to be heard howsoever in some qualifications defective but that such who have taken on a false office are to be heard thâ—s I deny and ever shall doe vntill they shew me some divine precept for it as wee have for the other which is Tantah horto fructus colligere a thing that they can never doe For his phrase Balaam-like to curse I passe it by onely I thinke good to put our opposites in mind of that which is writen in Iâ—sh 6. 26. Cursed be the man before the Lord that raiseth vp and buildeth the city lericho J am sure God of old-hath devoted Babilon to destructioÌ„ let men therefore see to it that they bring not themselves vnder a greater curse by using their pens and tongues to rise vp againe one part of the Kingdome of the beast which the Lord before had consumed with the spirit of his mouth SECT 4. THE Treatiser frames our second objection in this manner To heare such a minister is to honour approve and vphold his office of ministery Object In confutation of this thus he saith If this hee simply true then when the heathenish Athenians heard Paul preach Treat or when an unbeleever comes into the Church assembly an a heares the preacher he approues honours and vphold the office of the ministery Ansvv The virgins in Cypryans time granted they walked with young men talked with them went led with them but when they came to the act they absteyned The Treat writings here and in all the rest of his Booke is much to the same purpose He grants that men may walke to the Harlots House * But the Word of God forbids it Pro 5
he layes downe for hearing to wit that there is no Religious Communion betweene the persons preaching and hearing They cannot be chalenged to approve of the Ministers state or standing They have no communion with the office of the Ministery c. I say were these things so which are not yet would this practice be found sinfull because as we have before shewed herein men worshipp God in or by a way and meanes which idolaters have instituted Our second argument is taken from the Treat words following which are these Treat I professe I heare them as Ministers of the Bb. sending and of the Parishes sent 〈◊〉 Hence I argue thus He that heares the Ministers of the Bb. sending and of the Parishes sent too hee heares in the sence of the Scriptures false Prophets But it is not lawfull to heare false Prophets Therefore it is not lawfull to heare the Ministers of the Bb sending or of the Parishes sent too The Major is proved clearely in the defence of our 12. Objection The Minor is certaine by these reasons 1. The hearing of false Prophets is forbidden in the Word of God a Ex. 20. 5. Pro. 5. 8. Mat. 7 15. Philip. 3. 2. 1. Timot. 5. 22. 2. The practice of it is will-worshipp b Joh. 4. 23. Rom. 12. 1. 2. Mat. 15. 9 Col. 2. 23 the which is vnacceptable to God 3. It is to rebel against the Lord and to seeke what is in man to uphold that thing which the Lord will cast downe and consume c Num. 16. 2 Thes 2. 10. 11. Rev. 18. 1. 2. 1 Sam. 15. 22. 4. This is to embrace the bosome of a stranger so to coÌ„mitt spirituall whoredome against the Lord d Pro. 5. 20. Psal 106. 39. 5. It defileth the name of God e Ezech. 43. 7. 8. 6. This is to hold conformitie with idolaters and to be like them The which thing ought not to be f Levit. 18. 3. and 19. 19. 27. 28. Exo. 23. 24. Deu. 12. 30. 32. 7. It shewes that a man is not one of Christ sheepe but carnall and unconverted g Ioh. 10. 4. Esa 30. 22 27. 9. 8. It manifesteth great want of the love and zeale of God h 2 King 23. 4. Rev. 2. 3. 4. Psal 119. 128. Ioh. 2. 16. 9. It is to serve Satan and Anti-Christ as it is written His servants ye are vvhome ye obey i 2 Chro. 11 14. Rev. 9. 20. 10. It defiles the soule k Eze. 20 7 Lastly the doer hereby is exposed to the wrath of God l Re. 144. 2. Thes 2. 8 10. Thus the Treat like the Bee is drownd in his owne Honie And truely pitty it is but all pleaders for Baal were alwayes thus entangled in their owne words Rev. 14 9 Eze. 16. 54. according to that in Ovid. Non est lex iustior ulla Quam necis artifices arte periâ—e sua The Treat Lib. 2. de arte amand speakes on thus But not as my Ministers either sending Treat or sent to except I be of those Parishes or at least in Ecclesiasticall Vnion with them Answ A man bent to declyning is glad of every couler which he may pretend to justifie himâ—elâ—e in declyning It is a poore distinction which he useâ—h here to declyne the point in question For 1. what use was there to tell us He beares them not as his Ministers This well might have beene spared and something said to warrant by Scripture the hearing of them at all If a woman be accused of adultery and to excuse her selfe shall suy The adulterer is in no covenant or band with mee Is this enought to cleare her No. I have proved before that all religious performances in false Churches are idolatrous actions Now then to worship God there for excuse to say we are not in Ecclesiastical union vvith the state or Ministery I may well say lingua quo vadit it is idly spoken and much like the Fryars plea vve are exempted Lord. Againe for his distinction it is the same which Papists and others alleadge to justifie there idol-Ceremonies They say how soever these are things which Ievves Pagans did be ore them yet their end and respect in doing them is different What is said of some in answer thereunto I may here say the like To practice that thing in Gods worshipp which neither directly nor consequently is included in the word is an open breach of Gods Law bee the doers meaning this or that What jealous or wife husband if his wife should receive some love-tokens froÌ„ a knowne adulterer one that goes about to undermine her honestie would take it for a sufficient excuse if she should say I receive indeed such things from a knowne adulterer and as he is an adulterer but not wine c. The weight of the Treat distinction lies betweene meum tuum Hee proâ—esseth to reciue love-guifts from spirituall adulterers and as they are so but not his Now I maruaile how his pen could drop such poysen and he not smell the stinck of it When he wrote it I wish all men in all places to take heed that they deceave not their owne soules by such folish distinctions for if such things will not stand before sor-ry-man how then before the greate God Who is a jealous husband and a consuming fire Now let vs heare what followes in the Treat Treat By hearing and receiving there Christ meanes properly the hearkening too beleiving obeying the doctrine taught by the Apostles which many dispised vnto whome he opposeth the former that heard it Answ He that coÌ„es to the field without his weapon it is an argument he meanes to save himselfe by flying and not by fighting Whether the Treat had on any armour to fight with against this objection I will not determine but this I say and will abide by it he flyes away from the poynt and speakes nothing either for it or against it For 1. Were his distinction granted betweene hearing them as BB Ministers and not as his And againe that by receiving the Apostles Christ meanes properly hearking to and obeying their doctrines I say suppose this but I grant it not yet doth not this take a way the weight of our reason nor in truth so much as touch it I shall expect that he who comes nex to the field in the behalfe of Antichristian Ministers doe prepare a better Answer to this objection And that he may know what he hath to confute I will a litle inlarge the poynt 1. The Treat in applying hearing receiving to the doctrines of the Apostles doth not well For the first only respects their teaching the latter their persons This is evident in the Text Mat. 10. 14. whosoever shall not receiue you and heaâ—e my words c. Implying that Christ is two wayes received in the ministerie of the Gospel viz. In the person of the Teacher and in the doctrines taught by
him And thus doe out best Expositers vnderstand the place Caluine Pareus Piscator Aretius Musculus It is further to be noted where Christ sayh he that receiveth you receiveth me c. His meaning is that such as hearken to and obey the doctrines of his Ministers therein doe acknowledge his authority power kingly office over his Church to appoynt her lawes I meane in a worke of their â—ffice offices ordinances c. and also the fathers donation or the delivering up of the same into his sonnes hand To apply this As they who hearken vnto Christs ministers doe therein approue of his lawfull power over his Church of the fathers guift this way to him soe contrariwise such as hearken * to Antichrists Ministers doe therein approue of Antichrists vnlawfull power over the false Church and the devils ‡ Satan is the author of false ministries in the apostasie of the man of sin donation or his putting of that power into his eldest sons hands If any say we intend not so I answere Res ipsa aliud ostendit the actioÌ„ which they do is so quid verba audiam cum factae videam And here that saying of a learned a man is fulfulled There are some which deny that they worship Idolls T. C. Repl 1. p. 88. 204. when in the meane time their owne doings chargeth them with it Now there are too many in those daies grosly guilty this way His next words are Lavat in Iosh 22. Hom. 61. Treat The Minissters in the Parishes haue not the doctrines of the Gospel from the Bishops as they haue their offices but from God in his word Answ It was a law b Eugin Boron Iure consult l. 1. p. 120. among the Romanes that whosoever passed not into their Citty at the gates but attempted to break throw the walls or to clyme over them should be put to death The Treat in pressing the hearing of the truths of the Gospel would perswade us so we do receiue them it is no matter whether it be by order or disorder whether from the Ministers of Christ or Antichrist Whether in a true Church or in a false But this counsell we cannot take because to our knowledge ther is a divine statute in force against it therefore as we must c T. C. Repl. 1. p 155. care for the truth so must we care of whom we haue it he giues this reason d Ibid. p. 83. As God hath ordained that the truth should be preached so also hath he ordained in what order and by whom it should be preached We may not therefore adventure e Penry Exhort to the govern of Wales pag. 46. to go vnto him for those things which he hath no commission to deliver Suppose Carah or some other in that Conspirasy should haue said thus Come to us yee men of Israell and hearken to beleeve and Obey the truths taught in our Tents If you object that our Calling is anti-Mosaicall and false we answer this cannot be any barre or let in the thing seeing the doctrines we teach are from God in his law J cannot see according to the Treat arguing how in such a case they could haue staid without for if we may go into the Sinagogues of Antichrist so the Doctrines of the Gospel be there preached I would know then of our Opposites why an Israelite vpon the same ground viz. to heare the Doctrines of the law might not haue gon with them rebels into their Tents I beleeve if we come to open termes these will be found to be par pari things alike and the one as lawfull as the other both starke naught But to come more neerer to the point the thing which the Treat harpes most vpon is that they teach the truth And our opposites vse this as their speciall and main position viz. Where the truth is taught there they may lawfully heare To discover their follow herein J pray let it be minded what was said before As the hearing in question is a religious action so to haue it lawfull and good the circumstances perteyning to it must necessarily be observed of which circumstances the truth taught is only one particular It is a received maxime both in divinity and Philosophie that circumstances make actions formally good or bad so write Junius f De pol. Aquinas g 1a 2 a. q. 8. Art 3 Camerius h Praelect Tom. 2. p. 49. and Burgesse i of the lawfullnes of kneeling C. 1. confesseth they are intrinsecall and essentiall to actions and especially making up there nature Fed Morellus vpon these words of Seneca k Scho. 2. Lib. refert quid cui quando quare saith that without these circumstances of things persons time place c. facti ratio non constat Friar Ambrosius Caturinus l Counc l. 2 p. 224. following the doctrine of Thomas meanteyneth in the covnsell of Trent that to do a-good worke the concurrance of all circumstances is necessary What these circuÌ„stances or parts are is shewd in that old vers Quis quid vbi quibus auxilijs cur quomodo quando And to apply them to our point howsoever it be granted that their teaching may be without vitium rei yet in it there is vitium perfoÌ„ae loci ordinis relationis c as the. Trâ— * in aletter to D. Ames published in Brownists schis phraseth it else wher 1. The Person designed is not lawfully called now a false Office and a true worship are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they are no way compatible 2. As it respects the place that is the Idoll-Churchstate so it is to worship God there where he hath forbidden men to worship him 3. For the instruments and meanes in this men make themselues beholding to Antichrist for his order constitution manner and way to serue God in and by Now fye for shame that any should be so base as to scrape acquentance with that Babylonian whore who is the greatest enimy that the Lord hath vpon the earth Iâ— is a most certaine â—igne saith one m Estque merae proditionis certissimum indicium si quis aliqueÌ„ ex suis videat concilia claÌ„ cum hoste captantem aut in eius aurem insuâ—ure anteÌ„ of a very traitour when a man shall see one of his owne take secret counsell with his enimy whisper him in the eare Touching the other circumstances viz. why how when these all are also here wanting as I could instance in sundry particulars if need were But to winde vp all bring all the former into some fewer heads the goodnesse or badnesse of divine worship is to be considered either in actu signato and quo ad specium or in actu exercito and quo ad individium Divine worship is said to be speciated by its object and individuated by its circumstances when divine worship is good or evill in respect of the object of it we say it is
good or evill quo ad speciem when in respect of the circumstances we terme it good or evill quo ad invidium Cartewr kist ch l. 1. p. 253. Now I will not deny but this hearing worship quo ad specium as God is made the object of it so it is right but quo ad invidium as it hath circumstances and parts so it is a false worship and this is so cleare a truth as no man will deny it vnlesse the denier will deny all religion and reason all sence ' and scinence It is not sufficient saith Rivetus n Comment in Hos 4 14 p 152 vnto theÌ„ true wor ' shippe of God that a man erres not in the object which he ought to worship that is if he propose to himselfe to worship the true God but also that that manner bee exactly kept which God hath prascriin his law from the tenour or rule whereof whosoever in the least departeth the same cannot be held lawfull He endes thus Treat And so farre forth as a man heares that is bearken too reciues them by receiving it he so farre bearkens too receives Christ 〈…〉 Answ This is spoken gratis and without any foundation and therefore not more easily avouched then rejected But say we grant that So farre forth Christ is hearkened too c. yet doth not this hinder but So farre forth as he heares in an Antichristitian assembly and a false officer 〈…〉 and performes a religious worship in away and manner which Idolaters haue divised c. I say let his so farre stand yet in these respects and consideration He so farre forth hearkens too and receiues Antichrist If I should put over the Treat reasoning in spiriturl things to things civill and worldly the very expression of them would make them odious For suppose aman should vse the helpe of a known sorcerer to recouer some lost gould or silver being afterward reproved for it would reply Seeing they were good things from God hee did well therefore to get them in the way manner that hee tooke Or if a theese offering certaine stollen goods should perswade another to receive them because howsoever he hath no right to give such things away yet seing they are good and from God hee may take them safely for it is all one whether they are received in away of false-hood theift or by the Ieaue and grant of the true owner If these things appeare vile and absurd no otherwise is his reasoning here if it be with the eye of Iudgment lookd vpon the Priests for whom he pleads in the Scriptures are said to be robbers and theeues yea Spirituall sorcery is charged vpon them But all this with the Treat is nothing For so they deliver good things the same may be received from them in a worke of their office But if a man stood before an earthly Iudge accused of vsing a forcerers assistance to recover his lost monyâ— or for receiving goods from a knowne theise it would not free him to say the things are good which I tooke Neither will it excuse men when they shall appeare before the Iudgment seat of Christ to say it was the truth which they heard though not in the way and order which the word taught them Be not deceived God is not mocked Gal. 6 7. for whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reape SECT 7. NOw we come to the 5 Objection the which is laid down for us by the Treat thus Yet such as heare them haue communion with their office of Ministery what in them lyes It is the manner of some to set up markes and afterwardes to shew their art in shooting of them downe againe One would thinke that the Treat former writings against the hearing of false Ministers were written by him to be as it were his But marke that thereby he might shew his skill and witt in striking downe the same afterwards Touching the objection which he here frames for vs vndertakes the confutation of It is his owne and vnder his owne hand even word for word published to the world and in defence of the same thing which he brings it here for vs as the Reader may see in his manumissi on to a manuduction pag. 5. But to let this passe hoping it was rather a slip in his penne then a downfall in his judgment Let us see now how he hits the marke his answer to it is thus That is they haue no communion at all with it if it ly not in them to haue any as it doth not If I hold vp my hand as high as I can I touch heaven with my finger what in me lies do I therefore at all touch it if such thinke to haue or that they haue any such communion it is their errour and Ignorance but makes not the thing to be the more then if they thought not so This is all his answer a capite vsque ad pedes from head to foot Vnto the which I answer 1. To his peremptory affirmation they haue no communion at al may apply the saying fathered on the old Philosopher multa dictiâ—sed pauca probat I le speakes much but proues little For our parts as I haue said we cannot take his bare saying de iure et de fide to bee a rule of faith to us For our consciences are not like Sampsons shoulders strong enough to beare it 2. He dallies deceives by a generall ambigious terme of Communion If it be intended in the order way of Church-state it is true then here is no such communion as haue members gathered into a body politick But if by the word we vnderstand such a communion as makes the hearer really pertaker of the sinne of the Officer in this sence here is a communion of fellowshipp For 1. Hereby is allowance and approbation given vnto a work of darknes I say his very presence there to heare is an open countenancing of an vnlawfull officer in an vnrghtteous course tanquam legimae et sacrae actionis approbatio As Davenat a deterâ— Quaest 7. p 40. Slater b Explic. Anal in 1 Cor. C. 2 p. 92. and others note in the like case 2. It is apparent to a right discerning eye that the ministers of Antichrist in all acts of their ministery do vse such waies and inventions in worshipping of God as are not commanded of God in his word but be devises of men Now whosoever joynes with theÌ„ in the practice of such worship becomes a pertaker of their sinne and trangression Of this writes Ioan. David c Veridicus Christian c 28 p 7. And the reason is because he commits will-worship for what is well-worship but to worship God not after his appointment but our owne And hence was Ahaz an Jdolater eo ipso for that as P. Martyr d Comment in 2 Reg â— 17 notes he tooke the patterne of an Alter from Idolaters to serue the true
strong and lies as a stumbling block in their way to hinder the due practice of Gods ordinances 10. By it Idolaters are caused to shut their eyes and harden u Cornel. a lapide in Epist Ich. Secun p. 505. their hearts against the truth and soe consequently held the longer and stronger in the snare of the Devill 11. Jt is for nature and kind the sinne of the high places For wherein did the Isralites offend that way But because as Rivetus w quod fi bi adoratio nis loca arbitrio delegerint in Hos 4. p. 146. saith of their owne accord they made choyse of them places for divine worship Iunius x Annot. levit 17 7. saith soe too when they sacrificed in ALIO LOCO in any other place then the Lord had prescribed it was offered to Dâ—vils I will not here dispute of the materiall place I meane their temples of woode and stone whether Christians in them may lawfully performe publicke worship But this I do affirme and will stand to it that it is every way as evill to bring our spirituall offerings unto an Idollâ—state and there in it by it or with it to present the same vnto God as it was vnlawfull for the Iewes vnder the law to offer in the places beefore named some say a Lyran. comment in Amo. 5 27. the former is much worse because the same was never warrantable whereas the other somtime was as we haue else where noted pag. 18. 19. 12. To conclude this practice takes away the crosse of Christ persecution for righteousnesse It decks an adulterer with the spoile of the spouse of Christ It maks schisme in the Church in that men breake the order and bounds which God hath set in it b Melan in Evan dom 4. Advent p 94. Maks way for greater evils as apostacie from God sliding back to great vngodlines c Pare in Hos 8. p. 592. and to bee corrupted in the substance of religion and purity of Doctrine And what shall I say more Jt gratifies the Iesuits in commending d Maffeus In vita Ignat Laiola blind obedience and argues great presumptioÌ„ pride of heart as if man were wiser then God could devise either some better meanes or some other way for his edefication then the Lord hath prescribed e D. Willet Comment in 1 Sam. 15. 23. I do not know vvhat engine of vvit and art some men haue to elude these reasons and to batter them so dovvne as to make a safe passage through for a good conscience For my part I confesse such do goe bejoynd my line and measure of faith I dare not bevvise aboue that vvhich is vvriten it is enough for mee to knovv and beleeve that in this point vvee haue the vvord of God vvith vs and for vs. SECT 8. OVr six Objection Object 6. as hee layes it downe for us is thus If there be no communion at all between the Teacher and taught what profit then commeth by such hearing To this his answere is Treat The Church Officer feedes the stocke of Christ over which he is set as the object of his ministery Such as come in beeing not in Church vnion therewith heares him so doing as a stander by heares mee talke or dispute with another c Here is communion onely in the effects of the truths taught It were vsurpation in any to pertake in a Church previleidge which the office of ministery is that were not in Church state first so if hearing imported Church Communion none but in Church members might lawfully heare The Treat answers are much like to one that turnes himselfe many times about but moves not out of the place All that he saith is Homoeologia one thing often said over and over That is a change of the state of the question which is not about Church-communion but whether a beleever when hee heares a false minister in a worke of his office doe such an action as can be proved lawfull by the word of God Now to this which is the maine * Sacra scriptura tota vera necessaria sufficiens viatori consequen dum fineÌ„ suum nec est dubia via salutis Harum etiam explicatio quantuÌ„ adcreden da quaÌ„ tum ad speranda et quantum ad operanda ex plicatur ex diversis scripturae locis Scotus in 1. sent quaest thing we finde nothing in the Treatise but much paper blotted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 about questions and strifes of words which are indeed vaine and vnprofitable and whereof commeth envie strife evill surmisings rather then edefying which is in faith so to doe Jf J should say nothing to this some would say there were some thing in it Therefore I answere 1. It is a false kind of resoning which Logicians condemne vnder the tearme non causae vt causae when a thing is spoken either with limitation or without to conclude more theÌ„ the proemisses this fault the Trea. commits here For he would perswade vs that because the Church-officer his flocke are relatives therefore no man not in Church vnion hath relation to his office a M. Const Cnrin Metaph. l. 2. c. 1. R. Goclen in coÌ„trâ—v log p. 1 c. 18 Seal c 93 de caus Lat. But we are not altogether such novices but know a little how to distinguish Sophestrie from Philosophie Touching Relation the same may be considered 1. in ordinatione 2. in applicatione For the first which is a Relation by order or coniunctione that is relatio per se as Logicians b Fonsec 5. Metaphy c. 18 Quoest 2 Sect. 3. Timpl. Metap l. 4. Phrase it Here now I grant in this kind of Relation no man hath relation to the office of the Teacher that is not in Church-communion therewith But for the second which is relatio imperfecta or per accidens Here I affirme that in this kind The Hearer howbeit not in Church-estate yet hath relation to the Office of the Teacher and so farr forth is the object of his Ministerie Aristotle c Meta. l. 5 c. 5. speaking of sundry wayes of Relations unto persons and things sets downe these particulars 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So then to goe where unlawfull Ministers teach observe the time hearken to their Doctrine shew the like outward submissive gestures and reverence that others doe performe divine worship there with them and among them This is to have relation to the idol-state both of Church and Ministerie if the Philosopher speake truelie Againe consider a relation in the parts thereof 1. Here is subjectum viz. Hearing 2. Fundamentum i. e. a false-state 3. Terminus viz. superstition but our Opposites name it edification 4. Relatum to weet the speaker 5. Correlatum viz. the Hearer And howsoever it may be said that in respect of Church-union the Relation here is properlie in the two later that is between the Church-officer and his Flock notwithstanding
not to make use of any unlawfull instruments or working-meanes whether it be Church Ministerie Worship or any Rite or Order in hope thereby to have some good effects And here I desire our Opposites to tell me seeing as the Treat r Treat of pub commun p. 29. confesseth that the Chancelour in the Consistorie and the Preist in the Pulpit or Desk doth administer by one and the same power Namelie that of the Prelate which from and by him both the one and other doth receive Why a man may not as well communicate in the effects of the administrations done by the Chancelour in his Consistorie so they are truths As in the effects of the truths taught by a Priest in his Pulpit or Desk 5. Though hearing simplie imports not Churchâ—communion yet all hearing in a Church-way imports a justification and allowance of the state both of the Church and Ministerie in which and by which a man is taught And this we have alreadie so proved that unlesse men resolve not to yeeld to the truth which is most plaine but to kick against the prick and with Cavils Glozings and facing out of things like so many fovle feer to trouble the cleane water they must needs see and say that the Treat in this point held an errour SECT 9. THe two next Objections and his answers to them are not worth the writing downe If any other doe otherwise thinke I wish much good it may doe him that can make any good of it But I proceed to the 9. Objection which he frames in this manner He that heares Object 9. appeares to have communion with the Church and Ministerie and all appearance of evill is to be avoyded 1. Thes 5. 22. To this Treat thus he answereth The Scripture is not to be understood of all that appeares evill to others out of an erronious and deceived judgement c. but it is meant either of the Doctrine in Prophâ—sie c. or of that which appeares evill to a right discerning eye By this imagined exposition I might not hyre a house in a Parish where I were not knowne seeing thereby I appeare a Parish member Answ 1. I know not in truth what better to liken this answer then to that Nightingale of whom a Lacedemonian * Plutarch in Apothed lacon when he had plucked of her sethers and saw only a little Karkesse left said Thou art a voyce and nothing else The truth is the utmost that he hath here said is a meere colour of some thing while nothing is to be found in it For what was in the Objection remaines still virtualiter for ought he hath said to it or against it 2. If a man were to make a sword for his enemie he would set as little edge upon it as could bee for to save himselfe The Treat in framing this and other Objections for us is sure to make them blunt enought that so they may the lesse hurt him and profitt us But seeing we have the weapon now in our owne hands wee will doe our best to sharpen it Our argument therefore here shal be thus laid downe Whatsoever is an appearance of evill to a right discerning eye the same ought to be avoyded But to heare unlawfull Ministers in Antichristian Assemblies is an appearance of evill to a right discerning eye Therefore it is a sinne to doe it The Proposition is proved from 1. Thessal 5. 22. and here granted by the Treat The Assumption is as certaine by these reasons following For 1. This going to the place where they goe and hearing as they doe is an occasion whereby a man comes into a suspition of idolatrie and that he is of the same mind with the rest whatsoever otherwise he pretendeth And thus have our Martyrs testified as Smith a Acts Monu 1876. Bradford b ibid. 1829. and others And that this is an appearance of evill both Papists c Eckius Tom. 3. in fest 5. Mich. p. 706. and Protestants d doe acknowledge it Peters adjoyning himselfe to the Iewes Gal. 2. was ostentatio falsae opinion is as Pareus e Exercit Theol. ib. 2 p. 111. saith a shewing of the same errour that they did though his private meaning was other wise So here B. Iewell en 1. Thes 5. 22. p. 219 Cent. 2 l 2 c. 4. 2. It is an appearance of evill when men doe that which causeth others to feare they are unsound But such a feare is here justly caused For many holy men have counted these Table-Gospellers f Act. Monum p. 1876 1829. and said they did it to avoyd persecution And reputed this action much like the Counsell in the prophane Orator g Servire temporibus apientis semperest habitum Tul. in Ant. It is alwayes thought great wisedome to apply ones self unto the times The reason wherefore Iohashaphat is blamed for his affinitie h 2 Chro. 18. 1. with Ahab was quia scandalum dedit subjectis quass foris non improbaret idolatriam quam domi abrogaverit This is their cause i Pareus Exer. Theol. l. 2 p. 101. who goe to false Churches It makes the Godlie to thinke that their performances among them are not perfect But that they have some sinester ends both in comming to them and going back againe to the other 3. When idolaters see us present at their worship they must needs hereby be hardened and hartened in superstition And this is another breach of that precept in 1. Thes 5. 22. It is observed of some k P. Mart. Loc Commun Clas 3 c. 2 p. 241. that Namaan might not doe any civill reverence in the House of Rimnon least through any appearance or shew of idolatrie some might be strengthned by it in false worshipp Augustine l Tom. 10 Hom. 6. writes very well to this purpose Doe ye aske me saith hee how the Gentles may be won How they may be called to salvation FORSAKE THEIR MEETINGS let goe their toyes and then if they agree not to our truth let them be ashamed of their fewnes This Counsell wee shall doe well to follow For there is not a readier way to bring people off from their idolatrie then to let them alone m Hos 4 17. See Iunius on the place as Gods bids us Keep away from all their humaine formes and fashions of Religion and especiallie such as are round about us and live amongst us as Cartwright n Reply 1. to Whitg p. 131. excellently shewes 4. It hath a shew of evill in that it is a matter of active scandall and giveth occasion to our brother to fall into that evill whereof it hath ashew to wit that there is no just cause to separate from false Churches but that people may remaine members thereof And howsoever there be not here an intention in the doer to draw another into sinne yet of itselfe o Quando ipsum factum est tale quod de sui ratione habear
interpreted then have not the Ministers of God any more to say for the justification of their standing then the Ministers of Satan I use Pauls phrase * 2. Cor. 11. 15. have to say for theirs Yea moreover hence the base Familists a H. N. his Exhort to his Childr and such giddie-heads who deny all outward calling to particular men and say every one that can preach the Word are Ministers alike Are justified ‡ He that justifies the false claime of a usurper condemnes the partie whose title is right and good in their most vile assertion ☉ facinus horrendum sancti viri But to cleare the Text from the Treat false glosse And by it to prove the truth which we hold I will here lay downe this argument If Paul by sending Proofe 1. Rom. 10 14 15. doth not at all intend unlawfull Ministers Then are not unlawfll Ministers to be heard But the first is true therefore the second The proposition which needeth only to be cleared may bee thus manifested Such as the Apostle intended Rom. 10. ought and may Lawfully preach But Antichristian Ministers neither ought nor may Lawfully preach Ergo the Apostle Rom. 10 meanes not Antichristian Ministers The Major is most evident and cannot be denyed by any that beares the face of a Christian The Minor is cleare and certaine by these Scriptures b Heb. 5 4. Numb 16. 5 and 18 7 2 Chro 26 18 Act. 14 23. ler. 23 21. Besides granted of all both Papists and Protestants To wit that it is great sinne to exercise any spirituall functioÌ„ or Ministerie without a true outward calling Of this judgment were Francis Ribera c Comment in Heb. 5 4. Toletus d In Joh. 10. pag 597. Royardus e Feria Ter Post Pent. Luther f Comment in Gal. c. 1 v. 8. Pareus g Comment in Heb. 5. 4 Piscator h ibid. Ames i Cas Consc l. 4. c. 25. Slater k On Rom. 2. v. 3. Cartwright l Repl. to Whitg p. 54 63. Wilson m Comment on Rom. 10 v. 15. Bilson n Chur Gov. others 2. If we may Lawfully communicate in and with that Ministery which the Apostle speaketh of Rom. 10. 15. then he intends not here any unlawfull Ministerie But the first is true Ergo the later is true also The Proposition cannot be doubted off The Assumption wee prove by our Opposites Confession For they grant it is unlawfull to communicate in and with a false Office 3. If the Holy Ghost doth testifie that by sending Rom. 10. the true and Lawfull Ministers of Christ are intended Then are not false and unlawfull Ministers intended in that place But the first is true Ergo the later is true also The Proposition is grounded on the words of the Text How shall they preach except they be sent As it is written how beautifull are the feet of them that preach the Gospell of Peace and bring glad tytings of good things These words are taken out of Esa 52. 7. where the Prophet according to the interpretation of all Learned men upon the place hath reference to the Ministers of Christ I say to such only whose outward calling whether extraordinarie or ordinarie was Lawfull and true So Cyrillus o Comment in Esa 52. 7. Dionysius p ibid. Areularius q ibid. Wigand r ibid. Hyperius s On the place Bullingerus t ibid. Mollerus u ibid Zwinglius x Marloratus y ibid Gualte a ibid Musculus b ibid Vrsinus c ibid Oecolampadius and others The Assumption needs no proofe except a man would make some question whether it should be day when it is manifested to him that it is not night 4. If unlawfull and false Ministers are not sent from God But from the Devill and Antichrist Then doth not the Apostle in Rom. 10. 15. intend false and unlawfull Ministers But the antecedent is true Ergo also the consequence The Major or antecedent is ground d ibid on these Scriptures * Ier. 14 14 Rev 9 3 and 13 14 15 16 and 18 15 17 2 Thes 2 3 4 2 Chro. 11. 15 Rev. 16. 3. And among other reasons layd downe by Zanchy e Quia non mittuntur ab eo sed a Diabolo Explicat Philip 3. 1 p. 176 Tom. 4. wherefore unlawfull Ministers â—hâ—uld be avoyded he gives this for one Because God sends them not but the Divell So Cartwright ‡ f Repl to Whitg p. 88 204. speaking of the Hierarchy vvhich comprehends all false Offices in the Kingdome of the Beast sayth it came out of the Bottomlesse pitt of hell and from the Devill Perkins g Expos Serm mount Mat 7 p. 239 vol. 2. Pareus h Comment in Mat. 24. 23. Musculus i Comment in Mat. 7. Latton k Syons Plea the Authors of the Admonitions to the Parliament l Admon 1. and others say so too The Assumption is as manifest For durst any man affirme that Ministers not sent from God but from Satan and Antichrist are here meant by the Apostle 5. Such have a promise of Gods gracious presence with them and of his blessing on their labours and Ministerie who are said Rom. 10. 15. to be sent But unlawfull Ministers have no such promise of Gods presence with them nor of his blessing on their labour and Ministerie Therefore by sending Rom. 10. the Apostle intendeth not unlawfull Ministers He that should denye this argument would shew more spight then wit For both paâ—ts are as cleare as the Sunne at noon-day For the other part of the reason there can be no exception against it For seeing this place which is the foundation of their cause is very Sand the whole building like a tottering wall must needs fall to the ground 2. For his saying He hath before shewed that it is Lawfull to heare him that hath no Lawfull calling I answer I cannot finde this proved any where in his Booke For I professe in the word of truth I see little difference betweene his grounds for hearing in false Churches and the Nicolaitants reasoning for eating in idol-Temples For thus they would plead m Euseb lib 3 cap. 29 Ireuaen lib 1. c. 25 Meats and Drinkes are the good Creatures of God and may be used in a civill way Lawfully Now we receive them no otherwise whatsoever ends and respects others have Convenient rebus nomina saepe suis What is the Treat plea but the same Hearing is a naturall action And although he heares false Ministers yet is not his private meaning to honour the state of the Office as the rest doe Thus Chius ad Coum their Doctrines are alike But doth not this in the meane time shew a desperate cause which hath not any authenticall records of the Holie Ghost Vnder the shadow whereof it can find any shelter to shrowd it selfe What in the whole Booke of
Sacrifices there administred in and by an Antichristian state of Ministerie Hee justifieth c Guiliad Comment in 1 Cor. 10 18. by his going their idolatrous Church Ministerie vvorship c. and makes himselfe a will-worshipper with the rest according to Pauls Doctrine in the former Examples * See the Rhemist on the place How they will chop this argument small that they may the easier swallow it I know not But this I am sure off they cannot presse it downe with divine authoritie d Auserantur de medio quae adversus nes invicem non ex divinis Canonicis libris sed aliunde recitamus August de unita Eccles cont Petilian c. 3. But either they must verba dare as they speake and use technas peiseis uncunning proofs Or acknowledge it to be a truth as in truth it is To come to his answer which is like a fagot of thornes full of prickles bound up with straw the which by the fyre of Gods Word is quickly burned 1. He applies things here aschematiston very ilfavoredlie The Office saith hee doth not make that to become the Word of God which was not so actually before True Neither did the Altar make the thing to be offered to become that which it was not so actually before For we know before it was laid upon the Altar it was flesh but afterwards it became a Sacrifice The same is true concerning the Word For howsoever the Office makes it not to become the word of God as neither did the Altar make the thing to be offered to become flesh yet by the Office it is made a Church-sacrifice the which it was not so before e Daverba decive nerves Persius Sat 4. And here I desire the Reader to observe how disorderly he sets things downe The Altar makes the thing to be Offered actuallie to become a sacrifice which it was not before But so doth not the Office make that to become the Word of God which was not so actually before Inguinis Capitis quae sint discrimina nescit What Child may not see the absurditie of it For all that hee could conclude from the first assertion unlesse he would conclude nothing was either thus The Office makes the Word of God to become a Church-sacrifice which it was not before but in destination Or thus The Office makes not the Word of God to become a Church sacrifice for it was so before This latter howsoever it be voyd of truth yet there would have been some sence in it ‡ Doe not thinke that the Treat wrote this Elenchum sophisticuÌ„ ignoraÌ„tly but rather fore-saw what inconvenieÌ„ce vvould fol lovv if he should let the argument runn out orderly and proportionably I beleeve hee savv vvell enought should he grant that the Office makes the vvord to become a Ministeriall Church-Sacrifice This Scripture vvould stand in force against the thing they pleaded for 2. For the place of Scripture Mat. 23. 19. the meaning is As they had erected an Altar and dedicated it to the Lord according to his appointment whereon to offer Sacrifices So the things offered to God on it and by it were after a sort sanctified by the Altar f That is it made them publick Church-services acceptable to the Lord. And the same is true of Christs Ministerie As it is a divine institution given unto the Church for the performance of Holy things so it sanctifyeth the things that is makes them to become Lawfull Ministerial Church-Ordinances without which they were not so Neither could they be so reputed And this may be as applied also to a false Ministerie For as it is an institution of Satan and Antichrist to have their wicked devises administred So it defiles every administration done in it and by it And for the administrations they are all false unlawfull Antichristian Church-actions †Quamvis Dei solius sit sanctificare tamen aliquo modo quae principalius Deo sunt-consecrata ad se pertinentia sanctificare dicuntur Muscul in Evang. Mat. c. 23 p. 477. Tom. 3. offered to the Devill g Hoc est judicium Dei de quavis cultu de de quavis Religione quem non secundum verbum eius exercetur Non Deo sed demonijs prestatur Pare Com. in 1 Cor. 10. 20. Fingere enim falsum cultum est falsum Deum fingere quia tunc fingitur falsa Dei voluntas sic falsus Deus Par. in 1. Cor. 10. 7. and otherwise to be taken 3. Where he saith the eating of the Sacrifices in Israell became their Sacraments and the Heathen sacrifices were their Sacraments Howsoever were this so it neither hurts us nor helpes him Yet I cannot see how it can be so applyed For 1. Circumcision and the passeover were Israels Sacraments And therefore by Altar their whole Religion and Worship is understood As Zanchy h Altare pro tota religione cultu accipitur praecept 3 p. 534. truely observeth Againe the Apostle prohibiteth not only the eating of the Heathen Sacraments but all going to their Temples to doe any thing there with them or among them Yea though it were not with any intent to performe a Religious Action So i Respicit congressus c. Comment in Psul 16. pâ—g 53. Rivetus 4. As meats considered in themselves may Lawfully be eaten any where if it be done without the offence of the weake as Paul Teacheth at large 1 Cor. 10 25 29. Yet if meats bee considered as they are offered to idols and eaten in the Idolâ—Temples in the honour of idols * See his justificat of sep 94. they be unlawfull The like may be said of the word if we consider it in it selfe the same may be preached Lawfully any where But if the Word be considered as Antichrist useth it Distingue tempora locus reconciliabis scripturas or rather abuseth it in setting up a false Church and Ministerie to teach it in and by In this respect the Word is not Lawfully preached How oever here againe he insinuateth the contrarie Distinguish saith Augustine k times and places and thou shalt reconcile the Scriptures Lastly J desire the Reader to make it well Howsoever the Treat hath said something yet nothing at all to the Objection For he should have proved that howsoever they who did eate of the sacrificed Beasts of the Altar justified the Altar And they which went to idol-Temples honoured the idoll Yet now wee may Lawfullie take and eate the spirituall sacrifices which come off from the Altar of false Churches and false Ministeries And yet not justifie the Altar nor give any honour or consent thereto No nor any shew or appearance thereof †Quae Whether such as pretend to ground their practice of hearing on this Treatise doe not shew either lightnes in not weighing what is said Or ignorance in not discerning what they read or wilfulnes in doing a thing for some by respect pretending this Booke as a