Communion al this while Yet are there sum that whisper in corners that the masse is ablessed a catholike thing and y ◠the holy Communion which now god of his great mercy hathe restored to vs is wicked and scismaticall therefore they murmure against it therfore they refrayne it wyll not come to it O mercifull God who woulde thynke there coulde be so muche wilfulnes in the heart of man O Gregorye O Augustine O Hierome O Chrisostome O Leo O Dionyse O Anacletus O sixtus O Paule O Christ If we be deceyued herein ye are they y ◠haue deceyued vs. You haue taught vs these sci◅nes diuisions ye haue taught vs these heresies Thus ye ordred the holy communiō in your tyme the same w◅ receyued at your hand and haue faithfullye delyuered it vnto the people And that ye may the more meruell at the wylfulnes of suche men they stande this day against so manye olde fathers so manye doctoures so many examples of the primitiue churche so manifest and so plaine words of the holye scriptures yet haue they herein not one father not one doctor not one allowed example of the prymitiue churche to make for them And when I say not one I speak not this in vehemencie of spirite or heate of talke but euen as before God by the way of simplicity and truth lest any of you shoulde happely be deceyued and thynke there is more weyght in the other syde thē in cōclusion there shal be found And therfore once agayne I say of all the words of the holye scriptures of all the examples of y ◠primitiue churche of all the olde fathers of all the aunciēt doctors in these causes they haue not one Here the mater it selfe that I haue nowe in hand putteth me in remembraunce of certein thinges that I vttered vnto you to y ◠same purpose at my last beynge in thys place I remember I layed out then here before you a number of thinges that are nowe in contronersie◅ wherunto our aduersaries will not yelde And I said perhappes boldely as it might then seeme to sum man But as I my self and the learned of our aduersaries thēselues do wel know sincerely and trulye that none of all them that this day stande against vs are able or shall euer be able to proue against vs any one of all those points ether by y ◠scriptures or by exāple of y t primitiue church or by the olde doctours or by the auncient generall councelles Since that tyme it hathe ben reported in places that I spake then more then I was able to iustifye and make good Howe beit these reportes were onely made in corners and therefore ought the lesse to trouble me But if my sayinges had ben so weake myght so easelye haue ben reproued I meruayle that the partyes neuer yet came to the lyght to take the aduauntage For my promise was and that openly here before you all That if anye man were able to proue the contrary I woulde yelde and subscribe to hym And he shoulde depart with the victorye Loth I am to trouble you with rehersall of suche thinges as I haue spokē afore and yet because the case so requireth I shall desire you that haue alredy hearde me to beare y ◠more with me in this behalf Better it were to trouble your eares with twyse hearing of one thyng then to betray the truth of God The words that I then spake as nere as I can call them to mynd were these If any learned man of all our aduersaries or if all y e learned men that be alyue be able to bring any one sufficient sentence out of any olde catholike doctour or father Or out of any olde generall counsell Or out of y ◠holye scriptures of God Or any one example of the primitiue Churche wherby it may be clearly plainly proued y t there was any priuate masse in the whole worlde at that tyme for the space of sixe hundred yeres after Christ Or that there was then any Communion ministred vnto the people vnder one kind Or that the people had th◅r commē prayers then in a straūge toung that they vnderstode not Or that the Bishop of Rome was then called an vniuersal Bishop or the head of y ◠vniuersal churche Or that y ◠people was then taught to beleue that Christes bodye is really substantially corporally carnally or naturally in the sacrament Or that his body is or maye be in a thousand places or mo at one tyme Or that the priest did then holde vp the sacrament ouer hys head Or that the people dyd then fall down and worship it w t godly honour Or that the sacrament was then or nowe oughte tobe hanged vp vnder a canopie Or that in the Sacrament after the wordes of consecration there remaineth only the accidents and shewes without the substaunce of bread and wyne Or that the priest then deuyded the Sacramente in three partes and afterward receyued him selfe all alone Or y ◠wh◅ so euer had said the sacramente is a figure a pledge a token or a remembraunce of Christes bodye had therefore been iudged for an heretike Or that it was lawfull then to haue xxx xx xv x. or v. Masses said in one Churche in one day Or that Images were then set vp in the churches to the entente the people might worship them Or that the lay people was then forbidden to reade the word of God in theyr owne toung If any man alyue wer able to proue any of these articles by anye one cleare or plaine clause or sentēce ether of the scriptures or of the olde doctours or of any olde generall Counsell or by any example of the primitiue chuech I promised then that I would geue ouer and subscribe vnto hym These words are the very lyke I remember I spake here openly before you all And these be the things that sum men say I haue spoken and cannot iustify But I for my part will not only not call in any thinge that I then sayd beinge well assured of the truth therein but also will laye more mater to y ◠same That if they that seeke occasion haue any thing to y ◠contrary they may haue the larger scope to replye againstme Wherfore besyde al that I haue said alredy I wil say farther and yet nothing so much as might be sayd If any one of all our aduersaries be able clearly and plainlye to proue by such authority of the scriptures the olde doctoures councelles as I said before that it was then lawfull for the priest to pronounce the wordes of consecration closely and in sylence to him self Or that the priest had th◅ authority to offer vp Christ vnto his father Or to communicate receyue the sacramēt for an other as they do Or to apply the vertue of Christes death and passion to any man by the meane of y ◠masse Or that it was then thought a sound doctrine to
haue vtterly chaunged and abolished the order of the olde church and do nothing but the contrarie And what euident profet y e Church of God hath gotten by it I thinke it a harde matter to declare You woulde haue the matter tourned ouer co sum general couÌ„sell as we would be coÌ„tend to staÌ„d by howbeit that you thinke wyll not be in your time Notwithstanding I dare boldly say such a CouÌ„cel wâ—…be a great while before ye shal be able to find any doctor or old councel to serue your purpose But though there were neuer suche a Councell yet trueth wil be trueth notwithstanding for the ConÌ„ell can not make the falshed trueth but the thing y â— is taken to be â—…rew it certifyeth only to be trew But what redresse can there be loked for of sutche a Councel where as no man shal be â—…udge or suffred to speak one way or other but only sutch as be opeÌ„ly and iustly accused fonÌ„d faltâ—… and where as he that is himselfe most out of order shal be head and refourmer of the whole Both parties ye say haue waded so â—…re 〈◊〉 y e now 〈◊〉 â—…an go no further therfore ye wolde haue eyther parte let other alone If you of your parte wolde haue done so when time was many a godly man had now bene aliâ—…e Where as you saye you would haue the sayinges of both parties weighed by the ballaÌ„te of the old hoctours ye see y t is oure only request and y e in y e matters ye wâ—… of I desyre euen so to betried But why throwe you awaye these balance and beyng so earnestly required why be ye so loth to shew forth but one old doctour of your side ye make me beleue ye wolde not haue the mater cum to trial Only ye set forth the emptye names of S Augustine of sainte Hierome of S. Chrisostome of sBasil of s. Ciprian of Tertullian of Treneus of Dionysius of the Councels c. as the Apothecaries oftentimes set forth their painted Boxes and nothing in them you shewe me onlye the names of the doctours whiche I knew afore but ye shewe me not one worde in them of the priuate masse or of the rest of the matters that lie betwen vs if ye coulde haue founde any thinge in them for your purpose I beleue you woulde not haue brought them emptie But that is a policie in the time of Seige wheÌ„ the Souldiers within beginne to want vitales to throwe forthe a feweloues ouer the walles that the enemie without maye thynke they haue stoore inough so geue ouer the Siege You say I slaunderously misreporte the late CouÌ„cel of ConstaÌ„ce O sir these words sauour to much of your cholar and might better haue ben spared I speake more fauourably of that Councell then I might haue done For the wordes of the Councel be these speaking namely of y â— CoÌ„munion vnder bothe kindes Perâ—… asserentes oppositum tanquam Haeretici arcendi sunt that is they that stubburnly defende maintain the contrarie that is to say they that stande in defence of that that Christ coÌ„maunded to be done the Apostelles whiche all the olde Catholik doctors and the whole Primitiue Church obserued ought to be punished so as is miet for Heretiks By these words they are called not Schihnatiks as I said but stubburn heretikes which is a great deal more odious you see therfore my reporte was more geÌ„tle then y t couÌ„cel deserued Where as you say we could neuer yet proue the error of one gene â—…al Councel I think your memory doth som what deceiue you For to passe by al other maters Albertus Pighius the greatest learned man as it is thought of your side hath founde sutch errours to ouâ—… hands for in his Ecclesia Hierarchia speking of y e ii Councel 〈◊〉 at Ephesus which you caÌ„ not denie but it was general yet toke part with the hereâ—…ike Abbat Eutyches against the catholike father Flaâ—…anus he wryteth thus Concilia vniuersalia etiam congregata legitimè vt benè ita perperam iniustè impiéque iudicare definire possunt Generall Councelles sayeth he yea euen suche as be lawfully summoned as they may conclude thinges wel so may they 〈◊〉 iudge and determine thinges rashely vniustly and wickedly And of the two CouÌ„celles holden of late yeres at Constance at Basil where as Pope Iohn Pope Eugenius were deposed he sayth plainly that they decreed bothe against reason and against nature and against all examples of antiquitie against the worde of God And yet bothe these councelles were called generall â—…e presse me sore that if I write you not a Bookâ—… of my proâ—…fes it wil be thought I do it Conscientia imbecillitatis For the distruste of the weakenes of my parte Bilike you haue forgotten wherfore you with all your company â—…ot longe sence openly refused to enter disputatioÌ„ with vs at Westminster Doubtles y â— gretest part thought it was as it was in dede Conscientia imbecillitatisi euen for distrust of y â— weakenes of your part And what thinke ye is there now iudged of you y â— beyng so loÌ„g time required yet can not be won to bring one sentence in your own defence I haue afore alleaged a few â–ª reasons of my parte which by order of disputatioÌ„ I was not bouÌ„d to do now let y â— world iudg which of vs two flieth conference I protest before God bring me but one sufficient authority in the matters I haue required and afterward I wil gently quietly coÌ„fer with you farther at your pleasure Wherfore forasmutche as it is goddes cause if ye meane simply deal simply betray not your right if ye may saue it by the speakinge of one worde The people must needes muse somwhat at your silence and mistrust your doctrin if it shal appear to haue no ground neither of the olde CouÌ„ceiles nor of the doctors nor of the Scripture nor anye alowed example of the primitiue Church to stande vpoÌ„ and so your fiftene hundred yeres the coÌ„sent of antiquitie and generalitie that ye haue so long and so much talkt of shal come to nothing For think not that anye wise man wil be so much your frende y â— in so weghtie matters wil be satisfied with your silence Where as you saye I am not altogether without enemyes I assuere you who so euer be enemie vnto me I for my part am enemy vnto no man but only wyshe that goddes trueth may be knowen of al meÌ„ But he that is enemye vnto me in this behalfe I feare me is enemy vnto sum other whome he wolde be lothe to name You suppressed ye say your first letters for that you saw they were to sower That had ben all one co me for sower words aâ—… not inough to quail the trueth Howebeit to my knowledg I gaue you no euill worde to encrese y â— humour But 〈◊〉 ye will still striue against nature as ye say ye haue done
places euen into mine own dioces yet not vnto me therby to discredit me in corners at my â—…irst cuming wherof I haue the greater cause to complain of your doynges ye made answere not onlye that it was your own but also y â— it was much abridged that y â— originall was twise asmuch Yf it be so the fault is your own that would so vnaduisedly bestowe your writinges As for my part as they came to me not by your sendinge but by very chaunce euen so did I cause them to be copied out iustly and truely without adding or diminishing of one letter and according haue I made out mine answere to the whole Nowe forasmuch as I vnderstand there 〈◊〉 certeine both honorable and worshipful y t would gladly haue our doinges to the print and so published these shal be to desire you for the bettering of your own cause to send me your own copie ful and large as ye say ye gaue it out at y e first y t I may do as I shal thinke good and you haue no cause to to think your self iniuried if I answer one parcell of your letters and not to the whole I pray you let me here from you with expeditioÌ„ for I mean plainly therfore haue caused the print to staie vpon your answere Thus I bid you farwell From Shireburn y e xxii of July An. 1560. Io. Sarum VNto this Letter D. Cole beynge bisides by messenger â—…arnestlye required would make no answere one waye or other Therfore vpon hys refusall it was thought good to answere his Letters as they were ⧠The Reply of the Bishop of Sarum to the Letter aboue written which D. Cole contrarie to euen dealing had geuen out and sent abroad not to the said Bishop to whom he wrote it but priuely and secretly vnto certain of hys own frendes THere came to my haÌ„bs of late by chaunce a Scroul set forthe in short broken sentences conteining an answer to the second Letters that I had sent vnto you before which as by certain familiar Phrases by that date by the subscription of your own name by other tokens appeared to me to be yours So by the vsinge ordering of thesame I had sum cause to think it shold not be yours especially for that beyng as it appeared writteÌ„ vnto me it was sent priuely abroad vnto others and not to me For I thought y â— you being a maÌ„ of this age credit would not haue bene ashamed of your own writinges or would haue concealed them froÌ„ him to whom you had directed theÌ„ or haue soght for a false light to set forth your matters in as MarchauÌ„tes sumtimes vse to do y â— better to vtter their sorie wares Moreouer I saw y t your words throughout were heaped vp with tauntes scornes and were somwhat to much steined with cholar to haue proceded froÌ„ a sober graue man as I euer toke you to be Thus being vncerteine of the trueth herein after I had sent ofteÌ„times to you to know whether you would auouch it for your own or no could neuer get word froÌ„ you by reason y â— you shifted your self would not be fouÌ„d I thoght it good to staie my selfe from answering vntil I might get certein knowledg of the authour At the last after I had assayed many waies could by no meanes hear froÌ„ you hauing no 〈◊〉 continuaunce in the Citie to staye the vntrue reportes which I herd werscattered by suÌ„ of your freÌ„ds I could not but before my departure hence make out mine answer vnto you as hauig cause to thinke the letters that were brought me should be his in whose name they were geuen abroad Firste where you haue made your answers seuerall set them so far of from the parcelles of my letters I gesse you did y t of very purpose that your reader might see your answer but not see what it was wherunto you answered Therefore I haue ioyned my sayinges your simply plainly both together without coulour or shadow that the indiffereÌ„t reader may haue all before his eyes and 〈◊〉 be y â— better able to iudg aright ¶ Sarum IN your second Letters I finde many words to small purpose It had bene 〈◊〉 better for you to haue alledged one sufficieÌ„t authority wherby I might haue learned that I loked for ¶ Cole IT liketh you thus to say that your Readers may thinke you touch me very sore where you discouer a great vntrueth in your wrytynge 〈◊〉 my purpose was to be taught to this mark onely I shot You for lack of good matter ansâ—… I speak not to the purpose not to your pur pose but to mine How oftentimes must I 〈◊〉 you I come not to teach but to learn The Reply of the Bishop of Sarum COntrarie to y â— Rueles of Rhetorik I sie you begin to 〈◊〉 and to enflame all your affections euen at the first Sobernes were much fitter for a doctor But your heats be such y t your freÌ„des haue shewed me you must be born w tal I neither discouer nor couer any vntrueth in my writing but as you know only vtter y â— very trueth For at Paules Crosse I required you or any of you to shewe the groundes of your religion if you had any that by indifferent conference the trueth the better might appear And this had bene to your purpose if ye had ment plainly to mine to But you run away in the myst and 〈◊〉 the net lest happely ye should be takeÌ„ and so purposly go about to blear your readers 〈◊〉 to couer the truth and hauing in very died nothing to alledg for your self yet ye make a countenaunce as though ye lackt nothig And so I grauÌ„t you folow your purpose and not mine Where you say ye cum only to learn and not to quarell he must niedes be your very frende y â— will beleue you Nowbeit the pretence of a learner may kepe your credite for a while saue you froÌ„ shewig what ye can say And therfore I read you vse it still But by your scoffes scornes it may pppeare you cum to controlle soner theÌ„ to learn God send vs both humbleâ—…esse of hart that we may content our selues to be taught ¶ Sarum IN my Sermons aswell at Powles Crosse as els where I required you to bryng forth of your parte eyther sum Scripture or sum olde Doctour or sum â—…ncient generall Councell or els sum â—…llowed example of y ◠〈◊〉 church For these are good groundes to builde vpon And I would haue merueiled that you broght forth nothing al this while sauing that I knewe you had nothing to bring ¶ Cole YOu require that is daungerous for me â—… you knowe Thereply Sarum 〈◊〉 it be daungerous to you bicause you stande bounde why do you not put it ouer to sum other of your syd that is not boâ—…d This shadow wil serue well before your â—…endes that will wink when you bid them
and see no more theÌ„ you wil haue them see But forasmuch as ye haue vsed this excuse so ofteÌ„ and so few wise men wil beleue it I wold think it good that now ye wold deuise sum other ¶ Sarum BUt now forasmuch as ye seke shifts and will not cum to answere I accoÌ„pt him vnwise that knoweth not your meaning ¶ Cole WEll rayled you shal finde that we haue more then all you shal be able to answer when time shall require The Reply Sarum THis answer notwithstaÌ„ding it is bitter yet bicause it is vntrue and beareth more smoke theÌ„ flame it moueth me the lesse Here I misse in you sum part of your courtesie These maters would be tried by reasonig better then by scoldyng By likelihod sum other maÌ„ had moued your cholar for my words be as far from rayling as yours are from modestie Where you write that you haue more theÌ„ all we shal be able to answere if euery crake were a good substaÌ„tial argument I were coÌ„fu ted But notw tstandinge these terrible threates yet in coÌ„clusion as your custom is ye bring nothing The arguments that you say we shall neuer be able to answere are sweard fyre suche as of late dayes ye vsed so plentiously for lacke of others And yet as strong as forcible as they were God be thanked they haue ben fully answered to the great vnspeakable comfort of goddes people and to your shame confusion for euer As touching the olde doctours and Councelles I wold ye had a terme assigned you ad exhibenduÌ„ In the meane season for lacke of other witnes ye maye write teste 〈◊〉 as Princes doo Sarum YE aske me why ye should be counted obstinate Doubtles I for my parte haue a better opinion of you and trust you are not so But if a man withstand and open trueth hauing nothing wherwith to defend him self I remit him to your own iudgement whether he maye be counted obstinate or no. ¶ Cole THese wordes glittereth Golde like and disclose in you no will to 〈◊〉 my 〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 for lack of 〈◊〉 The reply Sarum IT pleaseth you to make yourself mery with these words I alledged vnto you s. Augnstin S. Ambrose S. Basill S. Chrisostome S Nierome Gelasius Theophilus and S. Gregorie Therfore it is vntrue that ye saye I had no wil to satisfy your demauÌ„d Now bringe you but one of all these or any other of your syd in y â— matters that lie now betwene vs to satisfy my demauÌ„d and as I haue said you shal haue the victory You say we lack stufe to proue out pourpose O woulde to God your stufe and ours might be laid together theÌ„ should it sone appear howe true it is that ye say how faithfully ye haue vsed the people of God ¶ Sarum YOu put me well in remembrance of mine office that forasmuch as I am a Bishop should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is redy to yelde an accoÌ„pt of such things as I teach I thank God so I do haue done to my power both priuately and openly But if this be my deutie and required at my hands what priueledge haue you that you only may not allowe out one sentence to the confirmation of your doctrine ¶ Cole YOu say much and proue nothing Your trueth is so open that no man can sie it but your own side I haue no priuilege when reason and Law shall will me to do it you shall finde it Now I stande bound to the contrarie as you know The reply Sarum I Speake not to muche as your selfe can witnesse Nowe muche I proue shall reste vpon the wisedome and iudgement of the reader bothe the trueth of oure parte and the vntruth of your parte is so open that now God be thanked the whole world is able to see it onlesse there be sum such as hath eyes and will not see Yet Iustificata est sapientia Dei à filiis suis. Ye saye you will speake when reason and lawe shall will you to doo it Of the lawe I will say nothing but only this by the waye bicause you are a doctour of law what Law haue you that 〈◊〉 driue a man to prone a negatiue or if ye haue no Lawe â–ª what reason haue you that I should do it But me thinketh both reason and humanitie wold ye should haue answered me sumwhat specially being so often and so openly required At the least you should haue alledged Au gustine Ambrose Chrisostome Nierome as ye did sumtimes alledge the decrie of the Councell of Ephesus the first for the Communion vnder one kinde whiche decrie neuer was yet found nor neuer wil be Nowebeit bicause you speake of reason wheras a man hath nothing to say it is good reason he kepe silence as you do ¶ Sarum YOu woulde haue men thinke I 〈◊〉 answeringe bicause I am a Bishop This in Sophistry is called Paralogismus a non causa vt causa I alledged the place and audience where I spake and not only mine office For I thought it might appeare sum want or discretion to call that doctrine into questrioÌ„ which I knew was grouÌ„ded vpon gods word and authorized set forth by y â— Quenes Maiesty by y â— asseÌ„te of y â— who le realm ¶ Cole I Must niedes think sum parte of your writing made by sum smatterer as here for a shewe of skill in Logik brought in a place of Logik out of al purpose How frame you this to your purpose â—…nd you shall finde me therin true as happely I shall make you to sie if your driue me to it Your 〈◊〉 against transubstantiation is yet to be proued and no man bouÌ„d to beleue it And being as true as ye would haue it seme yet may you â—…nforme the weak and willing to learn The Reply Sarum YE do me to much wrong that will not allow me thus much Logik of mine own But it was euer your grace to beare the people in hand that all we are altogether vnlearned and knowe nothing Whiche thing if it were â—…rew it wer y â— more to your shame thus openlye to be confounded through the whole world by men of so smal learning Howbeit thus it pleased you to talk for want of better reason Ye cal me a smatterer in Logik as if your self wer as perfit in Logik as Aristotle And yet I remeÌ„ber well I vnderstode as muche logik as this cumeth to and sum deale more for twenty yeres ago ywis when you by your own reporte were but a simple smatterer in diuinitie Neither did I bringe it in for a she we of skil as you say but to declare your ouersight lacke of skil which appeareth now not only in diuinitie but also in logik For where you say I brought it in out of all purpose me thinke you haue forgotten sum parte of your olde rueles and know not what Paralogismus à non causa vt causa â–ª meaneth Which is when so euer in
reasoninge the very true cause is suppressed and an other cause of purpose set in place For example I say I confer with you vnder protestation lest I shoulde seme to call y t doetrine into doubt which I knew to be established by gods word by sufficient authority thronghout this â—…ealm And you would haue it taken that I do it bicause I am a Bishop Which indede is of your syd a sophistication à non causa vt causa So likewise I say you alledg no dectors nor scriptures nor generall CouÌ„celles as true it is bicause ye haue none to alledge But you woulde make men beleue ye dare not alledg theÌ„ bicause ye stand bound in Recognisaunce to y â— coÌ„trary And this of your syd is another Sophi stication à non causa vt causa Where you saye ye will shewe me that I brought this in out oâ—… all purpose it had bene more for your credit if ye would haue done it out ofhand But forasmuche as y e fairest shew of your learning haÌ„geth on the futurtens standeth only vpoÌ„ promis I trust you will bring forth your olde Doctours and Councels and perfurme this bothe together whiche wil be ye know when The trueth of our Doctrine against traÌ„substantiation was proued sufficiently and well allowed before your doctrine with transubstantiation was euer heard of For you are not able to shewe me not so much as the very name of transubstantiation in any kind of wryter new or old before the late Councell of Laterane whiche as you know was holden in Rome M. CCxv yeres after Christ. So longe the Church of God and the Catholik faith was able to stande without your transubstantiation Whiche if it were so true as ye would haue men think it I merneile it coulde neuer be knowen before ¶ Sarum BUt as touching my callinge I am not only readie to answer anye man in any thing that I professe but also vpon snfficieÌ„t allegatioÌ„ as I haue proâ—…sed very wel coÌ„teÌ„t to yelde vnto you ¶ Cole THat you are required that you refuse make large offer to no purpose The reply Sarum â–ª THat you required me I haue partly perfourmed euen in my last Letters as you your self do know right well and that not altogether from the purpose as it shall appeare Brig you forth asmuch of your syd and I wil say ye cumme wel to the purpose ¶ Sarum BUt I besech you what reason of your faith in these matters gaue you suÌ„time when you wer in place Scriptures Doctors CouÌ„celles ye had none as now appeareth by your silence ¶ Cole VVE brought more then ye were able to answer all were it not Scriptures nor doctours nor councelles The Reply Sarum IN steed of scriptures Doctors and Councelles ye brought such extremity as the world hath not sene the lyke and as you are now loth to heare of And yet it pleased god that the same should be anwered sufficiently with patience sufferance But here am I glad ye confesse one trueth by the waye that ye brought in all that tyme nether scriptures nor Doctours nor generall Councelles of your syde and yet I trow ye were frie from RecognisaÌ„ce This I beleue passed you vnwares and not of purpose â–ª As your Proloquâ—…tor in the disputation at Oxforde gaue out one trueth by chaunce vndad uisedly as he gaue knowledge to the audience in the diuinitie schole of what matters they would dispute For thus he said and that in your owne hearinge Virâ—… 〈◊〉 conuenimus hûc holdiè disputaturi contra horribilem illam Haeresim de veritate Corporis Sanguinis Christi in Eucharistia Brethern saide he we cume hither this daye to dispute against that horrible Heresie of the veritie of Christes body and blud in the Sacrament God wolde haue him vtter sume trueth then as you doo nowe bicause he was Pontifex illius anni But forasmuch as you confesse ye brought nether Scriptures nor Doctours nor Councelles Iremit the matter to your own reader to consider what ye brought Sarum THerfore the ground of your persuasion must then needes be Nos habemus legem secuÌ„dum legem c. Yoâ—… know what foloweth that is we haue a law accordiug to our law he must die ¶ Cole This argument I would faine see proued The Reply Sarum YOur whole practise and the order of your doiuges for sixe yeres together hath proued it sufficiently And besides y t a Bishop of yours euen in that tune sittyng in iudgement vpon a pore man in a case of ReligioÌ„ and hearing him alledge the Scripturs and other authorities for him self rounded a geutlemaÌ„ in the ear that sate next to him with these wordes Naye if we stryue with them in Scriptures reasoning we shall neuer haue done We must proced agaiÌ„st them with the Law ¶ Sarum FOr as truly as God is God if ye would haue vouchsaued to folow eyther the Scriptures or the â—…ncient Doctours or the Coâ—…celles ye wolde neuer haue restored again eyther y â— suppremacie of Rome after it was once abolished or the priuate Masse or y â— communion vnder one kynd c. ¶ Cole 〈◊〉 and bold asseâ—…eration maketh no proâ—… in the Law The Reply Sarum TRue and ernest asseueration maketh a proufe sufficient in y â— law as loÌ„g as â—…e haue nothinge to the contrarie as in ded ye haue not nor neuer shall haue But w tout question your terrible garde of Billes halbardes your grinning and skoffing with other like your demeanour as ye vsed in the disputations at Oxforde against the marâ—…irs and faithfull witnesses of goddes trueth and as now your crakes of many things and bringing forth of nothing I beleue to any wise man maketh but smal proufe in diuinity But if ye wold haue had any wise man myslik my asseueratioÌ„ ye should haue shewed by what scriptures by what CouÌ„celles or by what doctours ye restored these thinges again ¶ Sarum IT greaueth you that I should rest vpoÌ„ the negatiue and so put you to your proufes Wherin notwithstandinge ye alledg against methe custom of y â— scholes yet you know Christ vsed the same kind of reasoning in his schole As when he said to the Pharisies Hoc Abraham non fecit This thing AbrahaÌ„ neuer did And again when be answered them in y e case of diuorse A principio non fuit sic it was not so from the beginning he stode only vpon the negatiue ¶ Cole HEreis againe one place that I reken you put not in your selfe For it maketh quyt against you For Christ proued the Pharisies were not Abrahams Children and that a man maye not put away his 〈◊〉 for euery cause The Reply Sarum I See you would faine put me out of credit as thogh I wer not able to answere your letters without conference But this I reken you do for a ioly policie that while your reader is lokig vpon me he should forget the whole matter that we talk of Yâ—… y â— eraÌ„ples
were woÌ„t to haue it in their coÌ„mon disputatioÌ„s in y â— paruise Scholes in Oxford yf it serue only for them y â— dispute dialecticè ye as ye pretend be are the person onely of a lerner cum not to dispute why theÌ„ did ye alledge against me the custome of the Scholes the disputation oâ—… maisters of art in the vniuersities ye knowe they vse there to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dialecticè none otherwise And that I spake herein I spake onely vpon occasion of your own wordes Howe shall I thinke ye remember your Aristotle if ye so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your own letters ¶ Sarum BUt that ye wil not do and ye knowe why 〈◊〉 ye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But 〈◊〉 ye râ—…quire to se our groundes And what better ground can we haue on our side then that Doctour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 man on the other side can 〈◊〉 no ground to stand against 〈◊〉 ¶ Cole RIdetur chorda qui semper aberrat eadeÌ„ Doctor Colâ—… proue it wheÌ„ it 〈◊〉 to his turn Thereply Sarum SEing for lacke of Doctoures ye answere me with Poetes it shall do well to answere you again with the same Decies repeâ—… placebunt And yet when ye come so often with the pretence of desire to be taught and of your reâ—… if I liste to 〈◊〉 as ye do why may not I as wel say to you Ridetur chorda qui semper aberrat eadem As for the prouing herof ye do wel to take a day In the mean season geue others leaue to think the trueth ¶ Sarum HE that wil make any Innoâ—…arion say ye must geue a reason of hys 〈◊〉 O master doctor this reason 〈◊〉 most against your selfe for ye haue misliked and put away the most part of the order of y â— Primitiue church and yet ye neuer gaue good reason of your doinges ¶ Cole IN the end of my 〈◊〉 ye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ye 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The reply Sarum ANd there shall you fynde the Reply ¶ Sarum YE say ye are in possession No ye were sometime ye are not nowe and when ye were ye had no right title or good euidence to claime by No more then they which sometime sate in Moses chaire or they y t saide Nos sumus 〈◊〉 Abrahami we are the children of Abraham therby claimed their possession Therfore ye were possessores 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and for that cause ye ar now 〈◊〉 and orderly remoued ¶ Cole VVHen ye meddle with 〈◊〉 ye shewe 〈◊〉 I am 〈◊〉 in possession of all that euer I taught and if you put me out of possession by 〈◊〉 I ought to be restored Had not the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the olde lawÌ„ good title to sit in Moses chaire What ye forget your self yes perbie The 〈◊〉 â—…ccompted no man maloe fidei possessorem after that he hath continued in possession an â—…ored yeres But I pardon you for mistaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is not your 〈◊〉 The Reply Sarum I Haue not so litle skil in y e law but I vnderstand what are malae fi dei possessores And as now gods name be praised it is wel knowen y t ye haue been they ye are put out of possessioÌ„ not by violence of maÌ„ but by y e very force of gods trueth which so deuoureth consumeth 〈◊〉 error falshed as Moyses 〈◊〉 deuoured swalowed vp the fained serpeÌ„ts of y t Sorcerers If ye claime to be restored be not agreued to shew your euidence Where ye say the Bishops and Priests y t wer in Christs time had good title to sit in Moyses chaire I graunt you they had euen as good title as ye had to sit and beat rule in the Church of Christ. And therfore your example misliketh me neuer a whyte 〈◊〉 ye knowe Christ called them Fures latrones theues and robers and saide vnto them Vos ex patre diabolo estis ye are y â— children of the deuil Ye say the law accompteth no man possessorem malae fidei y t hath continued in possession one hundred yeares Which thing notw tstanding I can be content to gauÌ„t you to be true in the ciuile law yet is it not true in the law of God that as ye know is proued by diuers authorities eueÌ„ in your own decrees Dist. 8. There is alleged s. Augustin whose words are these Veritate manifestata cedat consuetudo veritati Nemo cousuetudinem rationi veritati praeponat quia consuetudinem ratio veritas semper excludit After y â— trueth is once found out let custom geue place vnto the truth Let no man set custom before truth and reasoÌ„ for reason and trueth euermore put custom to silence Likewise S. Gregory and his wordes are these Si consuetudinem opponas adâ—…uertendum est quod Dominê° dicit Ego sum via veritas vita non dicit Ego sum 〈◊〉 Et certè quaelibet consuetudo quantumuis vetusta quantumuis vulgata veritati omnino est postponenda Yf ye lay custoÌ„ for your selfe ye must remember that Christ faith I am the way the trueth and the lyfe he saith not I am custó And doubtles any custom be it neuer so auncient neuer so commen yet muste it nedes yelde to the trueth Likewise S. Ciprian whose wordes be these Si solus Christus audiendus est â—…on debemus atteÌ„dere quid aliquis ante nos facieÌ„dum putarit sed quid qui ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit Neque enim hominis consuetudinem sequi debemus sed veritatem Dei cum per Esaiam Prophetam Deu â–ª loquatur dicat sine causa colunt me docentes mandaâ—…a doctrinas hominum If onely Christ must be herd we may not wey what anye man hath thoght good to do that hath been before vs but what Christ â—…ath first done y â— is before all men For we may not folowe the customes of man but the trueth of God specially for that God sayeth by the Prophet Esay They worship me in vain teaching the commaundementes and doctrines of men Thus ye see euen by youre own decrees that custom against the trueth is a very simple grouÌ„de to build vpon And like as ye vse to say Nullum tempus praescribit Regi Som thynketh of good right â–ª cye ought as well to saye Nullum tempus praescribit Deo Otherwise Antichrist shall cum and sit in possession of the holy place and beare himself as if he were God that God knoweth howe many hundred yeres together And yet at the last he shal be but. Antichrist sit he neuer so high For prescription of an hundred yeares can not make the falshode be to the trueth nor can any prescription be auaylable in your own lawe onlesse it haue bonum titulum and that in Religion must nedes be the word of God Which word forasmuche as ye haue not to alledge as ye your selfe knowe no man better all the face of your prescripcion is but vayne And therfore ye were as I said possessores mà lae fidei And ye
that agree not in doctryne with you â–ª are not the Quenâ—…s frendes whyche ye gather by pour owne syde in Quene Maries râ—…ygne But I neuer brake aâ—…ity with any man for dissent 〈◊〉 râ—…ligion I â—…epe still my olde frendes be theyr religion good or bad The reply Sarum TO the first part therof I wyll not saye so muche as â–ª I were able God sone confounde al them that be or shal be otherwise If ye loue your frendes notwithstandinâ—…e theyr religion ye are more â—…itable then sume of your brethren For ye remember how vnfreÌ„dly sume of you haue vsed their frends onely for dissent in religioÌ„ onlesse perhaps ye will say ye imprisoned thâ—…m and burnte them euen for very loue ¶ Sarum YE suppressed ye saye your first letters for that they were to sowâ—… That had bene all one to me for sowre wordes are not inought to quailâ—… the trueth Howbeit to my knowledge I gauâ—… you no ill wordes to encrease that humour But if ye striue stil agaist nature as ye say ye haue done nowe conquere the reast of your affections to I doubt not but we shall sone agree ¶ Cole AS though mynâ—… affection only caused me to dissent from you in religion Whiche argument may 〈◊〉 you well in Rhâ—…torike but no where els I wene The reply Sarum WHen ye shal bring me any such authority as I haue required of you wherfore ye should dissent from vs in these pointes then wil I graunt ye dissent not only for affection If ye be able to bring norhing I truste ye will pardon me to saye as I saye This argument ye saye woulde serue me in rethorike no where els Thus ye wryt to make youre reader belâ—…e as ye haue reported in places that the grounde of my Sermons is rhethorike and not diuinitye Wherein ye were sumwhat to blame for your so light cre dit For if ye had heard me youre selfe as ye neuer did I thynke ye might haue hard sumwhat els theÌ„ rhetorike But it appeareth ye huÌ„t very narowly for faultes y t accoÌ„pt learning for a fault If I wer skil full in rhetorike as ye woulde haue me appeare onelye to discredite me with the people yet can I not vnderstande wherefore that thing shoulde be so faultye in me that was sumtymes commendable in S. Augustin in saint Chrisostome in saint Hierom in Arnobius in Lactantius in Cypryane in Tertullian and in many other olde godly fathers for all these as ye know were great rhetoriciaÌ„s But as in the boke of the kinges the Assyrians when they were ouerthrowen by the Iewes cried out Dii moÌ„tium sunt dii illorum the gods of the hils be theyr gods as though Siluanus or Pan or Faunus had conquered them and not the true lyuing God of Israell Euen so ye at this tyme after ye see your selfe scattered and put to flight cry out it is rhetorik and eloquence that hath ouerthrowen you and not the force of the gospel of Iesus Christ Likwise was Porphirius woÌ„t to say that S. Paule perswaded so farre and won so many to the faith of Christ not for that he had any trueth of his side but only for that with his eloquence and other subtility he was able to abuse the simplicity of the people But alas smal rhetorike wold suffice to shew how little ye haue of your syde to alledg for your self ¶ Sarum HEre I leue putting you eâ—…tsones in remeÌ„brauÌ„ce y t being so oft so opeÌ„â—… desired to shew forth one Scripture or one allowed example of the Primatiue church or one olde doctour or one auncient councel in the matters before named yet hetherto ye haue kept back and brought nothing And that if ye stande so still it maye well be thought ye do it conscientia imbecillitatis For that ther was nothing to be brought ¶ Cole This place is aboue answered The Reply Sarum Douâ—…tles by sayiÌ„g nothing as all the reast ¶ Cole NO we forasinuche as ye make this a great foundation against vs that we varye from the Primitiue church and therfore Make simple soules wene that we were in the wronge syde here I praye you shewÌ„e me youre opinion whether we are bounde to do all thinges whyche we fâ—…nde by sufficient authority were in 〈◊〉 in the Primitiue Church And because ye shall not be herein squemiâ—… I shall here my selfe begin to shew you mine I 〈◊〉 of the pinion that the councell of Constance was in this matter I thinke it an errour I am bouÌ„d to do as the Primitiue Church did Where the 〈◊〉 customaâ—… vseth the â—…ontrary I 〈◊〉 an example and no bonde I dâ—…ny not but these examples were to be folowed and not to ye broken at euery mans wyll and pleasure vntill by coâ—…en assent other order were â—…aken But if ye seke olde wryters and find me that the church this sixe hundred yeares obâ—…rued 〈◊〉 many thinges which were praciysed and accoÌ„yâ—… for good holesome and holy in the Primitiue church and therebâ—… 〈◊〉 vs in error this were a wrong 〈◊〉 For the church of Christ hath his childhod his manhod his hoarheares and as to one man that is mete to 〈◊〉 in one age is not mete for him in another So where manye thinges requisire and necessary in the Primitiue church which in our dayes were lyke to do more harme then good This is no new 〈◊〉 phantasy but 〈◊〉 1100. yeares ago by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 morose without reproch I shewed you and read you the place at 〈◊〉 as ye may 〈◊〉 and it were to long to make rehearsall of 〈◊〉 wordes here We might by taking contrary opinion herin 〈◊〉 led to thinke we ought to receâ—… the Sacrament euermore after supper and not â—…astinge But S. Augustin sayth that Christ 〈◊〉 thys to his church to take order how and in what sort the Sacramentes should be receyued and vsed Wherin he sayth it is a marucâ—…ous insolent kind of mandnes to 〈◊〉 that which is receyued in the church where the custome is not against an â–ª commaundement in Scripture S. Peter cauâ—…ed as Damasus saith a commaâ—… that 〈◊〉 womaÌ„ should come 〈◊〉 to the churche S. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 order that the 〈◊〉 shoulde haue al thinges in commen and so liue 〈◊〉 as in the late reformed order of Saint Benets munkes doth most godly appeare And not many yeares sence the same order in all Cathedrall Churches was obscrued Yet I wene it were an erroure to holde of necessity it should be so still Or to say the church were in an errour because it hath suffered a contrary custume to creâ—…e in Then if the 〈◊〉 of the church maye break thaâ—… was in the Primitiue church commaunded it is lesse offence to leaue vndone that was at the beginning practised and no commaundement geuen for other to folow the same Thus much I thought to put you in remembraunce of for such matters as ye touche in 1. 7. 42. 43. nombers The Reply Sarum IN the conclusion ye take greate aduaÌ„tage
But if any one man begaÌ„ it first so another why did not y â— Priests and Bishops then speake against it Why did they suffer one singular man only vpoÌ„ a singular phaÌ„sy to breake the general order y t was geuen by Christ obserued by generall consent through the hole church â—…fit it had beÌ„ staid at the first in one it had neuer past afterward to so many â—…f it be a wickednesse as ye say for one man of his own vain phaÌ„sy to alter the general order of the whole church then ye see euen by Steuen Gardiners confession y t your generall coÌ„sent wherunto ye lene so much proceded at the first only of wyckednes And being so ye remeÌ„ber ye haue a rule in your own lawe Quae à principio malè inchoata fuit institutio temporis tractu non conualescit that is the thing that was naught at the beginninge can not be made good by processe of tyme. O master doctour let vs laye asyde all selfe will and contention and haue recourse onely vnto the trueth that God hath reueyled to vs in his holy worde For therby shall ye be able to knowe whether y â— church do right or no. And therby shall ye be able to reforme her â–ª if she happen to do amisse â–ª For it is possible the church may erre but it is not possible the Scriptures may erre And the Scriptures of God haue authority to reforme y â— churche but I neuer hearde y â— the church hath authority to reforme the Scriptures Thus Christ reformed the errours of the churche in his tyme brought in by the Scribes Pharisees and said vnto them ScriptuÌ„ est Thus S. Paule refourmed y â— Corinthians for misusing the holy communion in his tyme and tolde them Quod accepi à Domino hoc tradidi vobis I deliuered you that thing that I receiued of the lord Thus the olde father Ireneus to stay the erroures of his tyme bad the parties haue a recourse to the most auncient churchs froÌ„ whence religion sprange fyrst Thus saith Tertullian to redresse he errors of his tyme. Hoc coÌ„tra omnes Haereticos praeiudicat id esse veâ—…um quodcunque primum id esse adulterum quodcunque posterius This saying sayth the preuayleth against all heretikes y t the thynge that was fyrste ordeyned is to be taken for true and whatsoeuer was deuised afterwarde is to be taken for false Thus saith S. Hierome of the abuses of his tyme. Quae absque testimonio scripturarum quasi tradita ab Apostolis asseruntur percutiuÌ„tur malleo verbi Dei The thigs that are fathered vppon the Apostles haue no testimonye of the Scriptures are beaten down 〈◊〉 the hammer of gods word Thus saith S. Ciprian to stay the schismes and sectes of his tym Hinc Schismata orâ—…tur quia caput non quaeritur ad fontem non reditur caelestis magistri praecepta non obseruantur Hereof springe Schismes and diuisions for y â— we haue no recourse to the first institutioÌ„ and go not backward to the spring and kepe not the coÌ„maunments of the heauenly maister Thus saith S. Augustin to refourme y â— errours of his tyme Nâ—… audiatur hoc ego dico hoc tu dicis sed haec dicit Dominê° Ibi quaeratur Ecclesia Let not these wordes be heard betwene vs thus say I or thus say ye but thus saith y â— Lord. And there let vs seke for y â— churche of God Thus saith S. Ciprian Si ad diuâ—…nae traditionis caput origineÌ„ reuertaris cessat omnis error humanus If ye wil retourne to y â— head and beginning of Gods ordinauÌ„ce all erroures of man wyll sone geue place Theodosius the Emperour pronounceth that they onely are to be taken for Catholik y â— folowe the doctrine that Peter deliuered at the first to the churche of Rome and so examined he the matter by the originall Wherfore it standeth you nowe vpon to proue that your pryuate masse your communioÌ„ vnder one kynde your prayers in an vnknowen tong and your Supremacy was deliuered at the fyrst by Peter to the churche of Rome or els to confesse that these things be not Catholike To conclude lyke as the errors of the clock be reueiled by the constant course of the sonne euen so the errours of the churche are reueiled by the euerlastinge and infallible worde of God But to say as sum of you haue sayd the church is the only rule of our faith whatsoeuer God saith in is worde she can neuer erre is asmuche as if a man woulde saye howe soeuer the sonne go yet the clock must neds go true For gods trueth is an euerlastinge trueth hangeth not vpon the pleasure or determinacion of men but beynge once true is true for euer God open the eies of our hartes that we may se it and reioyce in it that the trueth may deliuer vs. Thus much I thought it good to say to your letters before my de parture hence not for y â— I knewe precisely they wer yours but only because they bare your name If ye thinke I haue bene sum what long specially youre answeres being so short ye shall remember that a little poison requireth oft times a great deale of Triale Here once agayne I conclude as before puttyng you in remembraunce that thys longe I haue desyred you to brynge forth sum sufficiente authoritye for proufe of youre partye and yet hetherto can obtein nothing Which thinge I muste nedes nowe pronounce symplye and playnlye because it is true wythout if or and ye do Conscientia imbecillitatis because as ye knowe there is nothynge to be brought All these thynges considered if I might be so bolde with you I would say frend ly to you as S. Augustin saith to S. Hierome Arripe seueritatem Christianam cane palinodiam 18. Maye 1560. Iohn Sarum The copie of a Sermon pronounced by the Byshop of Salisburie at Paules Crosse the second Sondaye before Ester in the yere of our Lord. 1560. whervpon D. Cole first sought occasion to encounter shortly set forthe as nere as the authour could call it to remembraunce without any alteration or addition TERTVLLIANVS Praeiudicatum est aduersus omnes haereses id esse verum quodcunque primum id esse adulterum quodcunque posterius ¶ This is a preiudice against all heresles that that thinge is true what soeuer was first that is corrupt whatsoeuer came after Concilium Nicenum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mores antiqui obtineant THE COPIE OF a Sermon pronounced by the Bisshop of Salisbury at Paules Crosse the. ii Sondaye before Ester in the yeare of our Lord God 1560. Wherupon D Cole first sought occasioÌ„ to encouÌ„ter shortly set forth as nere as the authoure could call it to remembraunce without any alteration or addicioÌ„ 1. Cor. ii Ego accepi a domino quod et tradidi uobis quoniam Dominus Iesê° in qua nocte tradebatur accepit panem c. I haue receyued
teache the people that y â— masse ex opere operato That is euen for that it is sayd done is able to remoue any parte of our synne Or y t then any chrystian man ealied the sacrameÌ„t hys Lord and God Or that the people was theÌ„ taught to beleue that the bodye of Christ remayneth in the sacrament as long as the accidents of the bread remayne there wythout cortuption Or that a mouse or any other worme or best may eate the body of Christ for so sum of our aduersaries haue sayd and taught Or that when Christ said Hoc est corpus meum Thys word Hoc pointeth not the bread but Indiuiduum vagum as sum of them say Or that the accidens or formes or shewes or breade and wyne be the sacrameÌ„ts of Christs body and bloâ—…de not rather the very bread and wyne it self Or y â— the sacrament is a sygne or token of the body of Christ y â— lyeth hiddeÌ„ vnderneath it Or that ignorauÌ„ce is the mother and cause of true denotion and obedience These be the highest misteries and greatest keyes of theyr religion without them theyr doctrine can neuer be mainteyned and stande vp ryght If any one of al our aduersaries be able to auouche any one of all these articles by any such sufficieÌ„t authority of scriptures doctours or Councelles as I haue required as I sayd before so say I now agayn I am content to yelde vnto him and to subscribe But I am well assured they shall neuer be able truly to alleadge one sentence And because I knowe it therfore I speake it lest ye happelye shoulde be deceyned All this notwithstandynge ye hau ehearde men in tymes paste alledge vnto you councelles doctours antiquities successions and long continuaunce of tyme to the contrarye And an easye mater it was so to do speciallye before them that lacke eyther leysure or iudgement to examine theyr proufes On a tyme Mithridates the kynge of Pontus layed syege to Cizicum a towne ioyned in frendship to the Citye of Rome Whych thynge the Romanes hearynge made out a gentleman of theyrs named Lucullus to rayse y â— siege After y t Lucullus was within the sight of y t towne shewed himself with his company vpon the syde of an hill thence to geue courage to the Citizens within that were hesseged Mithridates to cast thâ—… into despaire and to cause theÌ„ the rather to yelde to hym made if to be noysed and bare them in hand that al that new company of souldiers was his sent for purposely by him against the Citye All that notwythstandynge the Citizens within kepte the walles and yelded not Lucullus came on raised the siege wanquished Mithridates and slew hys men Euen so good people is there now a siege layde to your walles an armie of doctours and councelles shewe them selues vpon an hill The aduersary y t would haue you yelde beareth you in hand that they are their souldiers stande on theyr syde But kepe your hold the doctours and olde catholike fathers in the pointes that I haue spoken of are yours ye shall se the siege raised ye shall se your aduersaries discomfeited put to flight The Pelagians were able to alleadge S. Augustin as for them felf yet when the mater came to profe he was against them Heluidius was able to alleadge Tertullian as making for him selfe but in trial he was against him Eutyches alleadged Iulius Romanus for him selfe yet in dede was Iulius most againste hym The same Eutiches alleadged for him self Athanasius Cyprian but in conclusion they stode both against him Nestorius alleadged the counsel of Nice yet was the same councell found against him Euen so they that haue auaunted them selues of doctoures and Councelles and continuaunce of tyme in any of these pointes whâ—… they shal be called to tryal to shew theyr profes they shall open theyr handes fynd nothing I speake not this of arrogaÌ„cy thou Lord knowest it best that knowest all thynges But for as much as it is Goddes cause and the truth of God I shoulde do God greate iniurye if I shoulde concele it But to returne againe to our mater There be sum that say y â— no masse is priuate or to be taken as y â— action of one priuate man For they say y â— priest that saith masse here doth communicate with an other priest that saith Masse sum other where where so euer it be the distance beyng neuer so great Thys commissioÌ„ semeth very large For so may the priest that saith masse in Englande or Scotland communicate with the priest that is in Calicute or in the farther moste part of India And by thys meanes should there be no excommunication at all for the partie excoÌ„municate might say he wold communicat with the prâ—…est whether he would or no. But Saint Paul gloseth not y â— matter on this sort but saith Alter alterum expectate That is tary ye one for an other And again he saith when ye cum together ye cannot eate y â— Lordes supper for euery one of you taketh his own supper aforehand Sum others say the prieste maye communicate for the people and that is as meritorious vnto them as if they had communicate them selfe But what commission hath the prieste so to do or from whoÌ„ or what certeyne knowledg hath he that his receyuinge of the communion shal be auailable for the people for if it be so what neded it then Christ to say Accipite bibite ex hoc omnes â–ª Or if we may receyue the sacrament of Christes body one for an other why maye not we aswell be baptised one for an other Why may we not aswel confesse our faultes before the coÌ„gregation and receyue absolucion on for an other Whi may we not heare the Gospell and beleue one for an other O that these folies so weake and so vain without shew or shadowe of any truth shoulde euer synke into a Christian heart or take place in Goddes religion S. Paule saith Qui manducat bibit indignè iudicium sibi maÌ„ducat bibit Who so eateth or drinketh vnworthely eateth driÌ„keth iudgement not vnto others sayth S. Paul but to him selfe Againe S. Paul saith who so beleueth in him y â— iustifieth the wicked not the faith of any other man but hys own faith is rekened to him vnto iustice S. Chrisostom saith It is the heresie of the Martionites to thinke that any one man maye receyue the sacrament for an other therfore he maketh light of such disorder of the sacramentes calleth them Sacramenta vicaria Origene saith Ille est sacerdos propitiatio hostia Est enim Agnus Dei qui tollit peccata mundi â–ª Quae propitiatio ad vnumquemque venit per viaÌ„ fidei He is our priest saith Origene he is our attonement he is our sacrifice For he is y â— lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world Whiche attonement saith he coÌ„meth vnto vs â—…ot by the