them selues also for auoiding superstition maie surceasse and be put awaie where the thing signified is perfourmed and sufficiently beleeued And so is Baptisme like to be quite abolished with other Signes and Ceremonies For Caluine their new Apostle of Geneua teacheth that if we were mindeful yenough of Christes Death al the Sacramentes were superfluous Caluin in â— Cor. 11. I praie God in this point I be not a true Prophete Defence 150. M. Iewel laboureth al that he can in the Defence to discharge Caluin of this perilous Doctrine wherewith I burden him in my Confutation But when he hath said al he hath lost his labour bicause he coÌ„meth not to the point and dissembleth that Caluine euer said it And so he maie beginne that matter again He shal do wel to make Caluin in Antidoto to agree with Caluin in his coÌ„mentaries vpon S. Paules Epistles where he teacheth expressely that in case of sufficient remembrance of Christes Death al the Sacramentes be superfluous Whiche I gather not out of Caluines wordes by a fonde collection as M. Iewel beareth the Reader in hande but I shew it to be Caluines owne saying and for trial I directe the Reader vnto the place Concerning the Godhed of the holy Ghoste I moued no Quarel at al. The Godhed of the holy Ghoste Pag. 90. Confutat 41. b. The proceeding of the holy Ghoste Yet in the Defence of the Apologie he beareth menne in hande that I denie the holy Ghoste may be proued to be God by expresse Scripture For these be his wordes You saie M. Harding that the Godhed of the holy Ghost can not be proued by expresse wordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye saie ye are right sure This is as false as true it is that the holy Ghoste is God Reade my wordes who wil he shal finde me true and M Iewel false Mary as touching the Article of the holy Ghoste whereas the Authours of the Apologie saie it procedeth from both the Father and the Sonne whiche is most true Some thinges are to be belieued for which vve haue no expresse Scripture in consideration of this pointe of this pointe only I saie whiche is parte of the whole Article and not of the Godhed I saie in my Confutation that they haue no expresse Scripture for it nor any of the first foure Generall Councelles and that therefore we are bound of necessitie to beleeue somewhat whiche is not expressely mencioned in the Scriptures and that an other Councel where that Article was confirmed is to be receiued beside the foure first whiche only be allowed in England by Parlament Bicause he was lothe so manifest Vntruthe vttered against me should be espied he nipte awaie my wordes not suffering my whole tale to be tolde out in whiche I doo plainely signifie my denial to perteine only to the Article of the holy Ghostes proceeding and not to the Article of his Godhed For after these wordes of the Apologie Defence pag. â—0 we beleeue that the holy Ghoste who is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not create not begotten but proceeding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto menne and vnspeakeable c. In my Confutation I saie thus As we acknowledge this Article to be true CoÌ„futatioÌ„ fol. 41. b. and Catholique so we demaund of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most auctoritie Other Conucels to be allovved of necessitie besides the 4. First We are sure they haue not Therefore we doo them to vnderstand and if they heare vs not we aduertise the readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truth necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other CouÌ„celles be to be receiued besides the foure first whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * This much betvvene the tvvo starres M. Ievv nipt avvaie from the rest as that wherein this pointe touching the proceeding of the holy Ghost hath bene defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Churche when vpon a newe doubte rising an olde Truth is by later Publications declared Likewise those Councelles in whiche the doctrine hath ben defined by the Churche concerning the Two Willes and Operations of Christe whiche who so euer beleeueth not or at least refuseth to beleeue is not to be takeÌ„ for a Christian man If these Councelles be denied al these things shal come in doubt againe and if these be receiued then why should not al the reste that be vniuersal Councelles be also receiued which the Church hath allowed * Thus I saie there Iudge now good Reader whether I denie in that place that the holy Ghostes Godhed maie be proued by expresse wordes of Scripture wherewith he chargeth me in the Defence and whether this be a seeking of Quarelles against him for that he mainteineth the Proceeding and the Godhed of the holy Ghoste as he chargeth me in his Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie Likewise it is an immoderate lye where he saith I seeke Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the Faith of the holy and Glorious Trinitie Pitie it were I should be suffred to tread on Gods earth if I quarelled with any man for that he mainteineth that holy Quarel I professe my selfe bounde to mainteine that Faith with al my witte and learning and to be ready therein to spende my bloude to the last droppe Neither can I seeme to pike Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the General and Catholique professioÌ„ of the Common Creede for so should I proue my selfe an ennemie to the Faith As thus to doo it were a hainous crime so to burden me therewith in a publique Write in a printed Booke set forth for euery man to reade in a solemne Epistle Dedicatorie to a Prince and to suche a Prince the slaunder is hainous wicked and impudent Howbeit As I allow and approue the Confession of their beleefe touching the Trinitie confessing it to conteine true and Catholique doctrine so I seeme better to like of the olde accustomed manner of vtterance of the beleefe And in deede emong Christian menne when this high point of our Faith concerning the blessed Trinitie is by a publique Confession to be taught it is not yenough to vtter some parte of our beleefe whiche is true but also it behoueth vs to vtter the whole truthe and to vse suche fourme of wordes as hathe benne vsed and allowed by the Churche from the beginning What I meane and how reasonably herein I haue spoken by these my wordes vnto the indifferent Reader it shal appeare Confut. 39. b. But what fault finde ye in this confession of our Faith saith this defender Sir the first parte of your Confession wherein you vtter your Beleefe touching the Trinitie conteineth true and Catholique
with any suche care how said the Apostle before vnius vxoris virum that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife Some vnderstand such a one to be signified by these wordes that shal be made a Bishop after his wiues death Albeit he that hath a wife may be as one not hauing And this much he graunted them very wel in consideration of the time 1. Cor. 7. and nature of the thing as the case then stoode And a man may take that thing honestly and lawfully if he wil. For as richesse doo hardly bring a man into the kingdom of Heauen yet often times many riche men haue there entred in so also doth marriage Thus farre goeth the greke in S. Chrysostom and no further touching this matter For immediatly follow not the wordes that M. Iewel buildeth his proufe vpon but other wordes coÌ„cerning an other thing as euery learned man may see in the â—…nted Greeke booke in the 20. leafe the seconde pag. tâ—â— 20. line You might haue sene this in the Greeke M. Iewel or your Greeke Frende for you aswel as you saw that other place of S. Chrysostome by me truly alleged and traÌ„slated where he expoundeth these wordes of S. Paul Tit. 1. ho. 2 The husbande of one wife Which place you wring and wrâ—st very violently to serue your purpose and yet it wil not be M. Ievv in his defence pa. 175. vseth false traÌ„slation and the learned may easily perceiue your false iuggling in it There you wil nedes haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signifie the wife that is gonne from her husband by diuorce and therefore you turne it Vxori quae decessit à se whereas you should haue followed the allowed translation that is in vse which hath Defunctae vxori the wife deceassed or departed this life So I haue turned the place in my Confutation according to the Greeke and as the common Latine translation hath Consider therefore how impudently you reproue me without cause First in the margent of your booke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pag. 164. ouer against this testimonie of S. Chrysostom truly translated by me out of the Greeke worde for worde For whereas be â—â—epeth no beneuolâ—nce towarde his wife deceased how can he be a good gouernour You haue set this odious note of reproufe directing it by your sterre vnto the worde deceassed * Vntruthe For M. Harding fowly mistaketh S. Chrysostomes meaning And there again immediatly * Vntruth standing in false exposition Not being content with this in your teâ—te page 174. lin 3. you say further Those wordes M. Harding in his translation hath purposely falsified I haue not purposely falsified them M. Iewel for they be not myâ—â— but they be the wordâ—â— of the common trâ—â—slation and the same iâ— according to the Greeke For thâ— verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth not to departe away by diuorce as you haue violently turned it but simply to departe or goe awaye and sometimes as in this very place to departe out of this life You might haue learned so much of the common Greeke Lexicon VVhat secoÌ„d marriage not forbiddeÌ„ by the lavves Now that S. Chrysostome is so to be vnderstanded S. Chrysostome him selfe clearely sheweth in wordes of the same sentence there For whereas he speaketh of that second marriage which he confesseth not to be forbidden by the lawes what other second marriage meaneth he but that when as a man marrieth againe after the deceasse of his first wife For I trow you wil not say that the lawes after Christes comming among Christian men permitted a man to marrie againe his wife being aliue and so to haue two wiues at once specially in the case which your translation importeth that is when the wife is not put away for Aduoutrie of her parte but departeth from the husband which she may not do but for aduoutrie of his parte It is not likely S. Paule would debarre a man from comming vnto the dignitie of a Bishop that had two wiues at once For such a one excepte he repented and had put awaye from him one of them was not admitted to be made a Christian man What trow ye that he required not a farrâ— moâ—â— pâ—rfection in him that was to be made a Bishop Thus you see good reason why Ambrosâ—â—s-Câ—â—ildâ—leâ—sis that learned man traÌ„slated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for that is S. Chrysostoms word and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as you haue noted in your bookes margent by this worde Defunctae and why I turned it the wife disceassed You may now of your courtesie take backe againe your bitter reproches of fowle mistaking of false exposition of purposed falsifying to your selfe For these special qualities be proued to be yours they be not myne For two other testimonies in proufe of Priestes Marriage M. Iewel craueth helpe at Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa Thus he saith Iewel Erasmus saith The Priestes of the Greeke Church this daie not vvithstanding their Orders marrie vviues The like vvriteth Cornelius Agrippa against the Iouanians Harding Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa Erasmus and Cornel Agrippa be menne of smal credite God wote in this cause which in their time they fâ—uoâ—red as much as you do now It is coÌ„monly reported you know for a vaine shifte of a theefe to say Aske my fellow whether I be a theefe or no. Herein we are moued with the authoritie of these two smatterers of your Gospel in their daies but newly brocâ—ed no more then if we heard Frier Luther Monke Hâ—pâ—r Peter Martyr the regulare Chanon of S. Augustines order and suche other married Apostates to speake a good worde in fauour of their vnlawful yokinges How be it the truth is both Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa belye the Greeke Churche herein as the Doctours of the Sorboâ—e in Paris haue in their Censures againste Erasmus truely declared For by the lawe it was neuer nor yet is to this day lawful in the Greeke Churche for Priestes to marrie wiues after that they haue taken the holy Order of Priesthoodâ— Ieâ—â—l Likevvise Cardinal Caietâ—nâ— saith Nec ratione nec authoritatâ— probari potest Caietan in Quod libet quod absolute loquendo Sacerdos peccet coÌ„traheÌ„do matrimonius â–ª It can not be proued neither by reason nor by aâ—thâ—ritie speaking absolutely that a Priest offendeth God 〈◊〉 marrying a vvife Harding Cardinal Caietane hath his errours for which he hath ben reproued and confuted We are not bound to mainteine what so euer he saith How be it this saying of his seemeth to haue no great errour VVhere of is it that the Marriage of Priestes in the vvest Church is vnlavvful Statute of the Churche and Vovvannexed so it be vnderstanded as he meant There be two thinges that make the marriage of Priestes in the most Church vnlawful the Sâ—… of the Church and the Vow annexed The Statute and coÌ„stitution of the Church bindeth clerkes receiuing holy Orders neuer to marrie As touching
Ye are like to whitted Sepulchres Matth. 23. Liers euil beastes slow bellies Tit. 1. God shal strike thee thou painted wal said S. Paule to Ananias Act. 23. O ye foolishe Galathians Galat. 3. False Apostles guileful workers 2. Cor. 11. The enemies of the Crosse of Christe whose bellye is their God Philip. 3. O ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in hartes and eares ye haue euer resisted the holy Ghost said S. Steuen vnto the Iewes Act. 7. As Iannes and Iambres withstode Moyses so these withstand the truth 2. Tim. 3. Hye minded proude blasphemous Ibidem Their worde creapeth forth like a canker 2. Tim. 2. Their tong is ful of deadly poison Iacob 3. These Dreamers defile the flesh despise rulers and speake euil of them that are in auctoritie Iudae As beastes whiche are without reason Woe be vnto them For they haue folowed the way of Cain and are vtterly geuen to the errour of Balaam for lucres sake and perish in the treason of Chore. Ibidem Why tempte ye me ye Ypocrites said Christe Matth. 22 Wo be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees Ypocrites Mat. 23 Wo be vnto you blinde guides Ibid. O ye fooles and blinde Ibid. Ypocrite first caste out the beame out of thine owne eye and then c. Matth. 7. It were not harde Christian Reader here to lay forth a greater heape of wordes gathered out of the Scriptures which M. Iewel reproueth in me as vncourteous and vnciuile and proceding altogether of choler But these few may suffice for shewe that if we consider wordes only and not the Circumstance of the sentence and the iuste cause why they were with such vehemencie vttered the holy Ghoste may seme also chargeable of vncourteous and vnciuile speache by whose prompting the Scriptures of God haue ben written If the matter of M. Iewels greuous accusation depende of wordes considered in them selfe onely the Scriptures haue wordes that being put a parte sownde more roughly then any yet by the written or by him noted And so farre is that pretensed fault in both Testamentes nolesse then in my bookes But if al be to be weighed by the sentences wherein suche woordes be placed and by the deserte of them in whose reproufe they be vttered as reason is it should then I appeale to al men of iudgement the dew circumstances and causes wel considered whether I haue at any time passed the bowndes of a zealous defender of the Catholique Religion whereof I make profession That the vse of sharpe speache is conuenient according to the desert of M. Iewel and of his felowes LEt the rehersal of my whole sentences with their circumstance in whiche the wordes be founde that doo so much offend be differred vntil anonne And here to turne thy tale vnto you M. Iewel and vnto your felowes lette it be lawful for me to come vnto the causes by whiche I was iustly moued so to write and to the very thinges them selfe for which ye deserue so to be written of The oddes betwixte M. Ievvel and them of his side and vs. and with such courtesie of wordes to be greeted Who be you M. Iewel and who be they of your side Who am I or rather who are we For of my selfe I am content no accompte be made but only as I apply myne endeuour to defende the Churche and the Catholique Faith by you impugned As for vs say the worst ye can of vs we are Catholiques By your owne confession your doctrine hath not benne in al Churches at al times taught and therefore ye haue tolde vs we knowe not what of your Church that it is inuisible secret vnknowen and lurketh in corners no man can tel where and therefore ye are not Catholique We remaine in that we haue receiued ye are departed from that ye receiued The doctrine for whiche ye make suche sturre is it not openly knowen to al from what men ye had it and how late ye learned it Where was this fifth Gospel so muche as whispered in any knowen corner of the worlde before that lewd Augustine Frier Martin Luther brake his vowe ranne out of his Cloister and yoked him selfe to his wanton Nonne Where was your Sacramentarie doctrine preached before Frier Huskin that new named him selfe Oecolampadius likewise brake his solemne promise to God forsooke his Religion and coupled him selfe to a young yoke fellowe Before their time who heard the sownde of your Gospel Where had ye any Dioces any Bishoppe any Church any Priest any Chappel any so much as a Parrish Clerke in the whole worlde Tel vs not as ye are woont of Wiklef Huss Ierome of Prague Berengarius Bertram and a few other which were but byles and botches in the Churche and be in no wise worthy the name of Churche Forgete not what you say in your Apologie that Luther and Zuinglius came first to the Gospel Remember ye cal that time the first appearing the spring and the first grasse as it were of your Gospel If it be so how be ye Catholique or how be ye of the Catholique Churche which is so called in respecte of the vniuersalitie of times Vincētius Lirinen places and personnes As for vs on the otherside we are hable to shew you the continuance of our faith and Doctrine by orderly successions of Bishops going vpward euen from those learned and holy Fathers whom for none other cause but only for the Catholique Faith of Christes Churche most vniustly ye kepe in Prison to S. Gregorie who sent godly Preachers to conuert the English people of our countrie vnto the Faith of Christe and from S. Gregorie further vpward vnto S. Peter and S. Paule that preached the Faith in Rome and consequently vnto Christe him selfe If we would speake vnto you in the person of the Catholique Church whereof we are a parte we might say vnto you those wordes of Tertullian spoken to Heretiques Mea est possessio olim possideo prior possideo Tertul. li. Praescript aduersus haereticos habeo origines firmas ab ipsis authoribus quorum fuit res Ego sum haeres Apostolorum The Scripture and the right sense of the Scripture is my possession I am in possession of olde I claime possession by former right The Churche continueth to the worldes ende vvithout al intermission Matt. 28 Iohan. 14 I haue the assured originals from the first authours by whom it was set forth It is I that am the Apostles heire The Churche M. Iewel as ye ought to knowe continueth from Christes Ascension vnto the ende of the worlde without intermission and without exception of any age or yeres Wil ye haue vs proue it What can we say if ye wil not beleeue Christe nor God him selfe I wil be with you saith Christe al daies vnto the ende of the worlde Againe I wil beseche my Father and he shal geue you an other conforter to remaine with you for euer the Spirite of truthe whiche the worlde can not receiue God saith to Christe in
Esaie Esai 5â— This is my couenaunt with them my spirite whiche is in thee and my wordes that I haue put in thy mowth shal not departe from thy mowth and from the mowth of thy seede and from the mowth of thy seedes seede from this time for euer Lo here ye heare bothe the wordes of God and the Spirite of truthe by whom the wordes may be rightly vnderstanded promised to remaine with the Church for euer Thus we are wel assured that the Churche hath neuer failed nor wanted Goddes worde goddes Spirite and Goddes truthe But ye my Maisters of the new learning do say that the Churche failed and was destitute of Goddes worde and of his spirite of Truthe for the space of nyne hundred yeres and more vntil Martin Luther came and restored the lost Gospel By vertue of whiche Gospel neuer preached before ye claime the right of the Church and so would dispossesse vs wherein of necessitie ye must graunt one of these two either that Christe the Sonne of God promised more then he perfourmed whiche were heinous blasphemie or that your Churche hath continued til this day and shal continue to the worldes ende If to eschew the reproche of so wicked a blasphemie ye graunt the continuance of your Churche ye must tel vs where it was before Luther began to preache that ye cal the Gospel Name the place where was it Or was it somewhere without a place Dic quibus in terris eris mihi magnus Apollo If it were at al where were your Bishops What were their names or were they men without names Bring forth your Originals your Registers your Rolles of Bishops that folowed one after an other by lawful succession For this were a sure way for proufe of your right Tertull. In prascript Optatus August muche commended and vsed of the best learned Fathers Your Actes and Monumentes where be they Haue ye none of greater antiquitie then those late of Foxes making If ye had a continual succession how came Luther and Zuinglius first to the Gospel how was al the light quite out before how were al the fonteines of the water of life vtterly dryed vp before his time for so ye write in your Apologie This this can not stand together M. Iewel by no meanes as al the world may see So then it is we kepe our ancient Possession ye heaue and shooue to remoue vs from it We be of the howseholde ye are strangers We are the heires of the Apostles ye are forrainers We are the lawful Children of the Churche ye are Bastardes to be shorte and plaine whereas we are Catholiques what foloweth but that ye be Heretiques The case standing thus what great offence haue I committed if where I defende the common cause of the Churche being moued with dew zeale and iuste griefe of mynde to see your vngodly dealinges I forgete sometimes the flattering Titles wherewith ye woulde your proceedinges to be magnified and vse wordes more agreable to your desertes O ye saie I vse vncourteous and vnciuile speache Why sir if ye skreake like Frogges must we saie ye sing like Nightingalles If ye crowe like proude Cockes must we saie ye mourne like simple Dooues If ye byte vs like Mastiâ—â—s must we say ye licke vs like gentle Spaniâ—h If ye consume vs and deuoure vs like rauening Wolues must we say ye profite vs like good Sheepe Must we tel the worlde that your Serpentes be Fisshes your Snakes be Lamproies your Scorpions be Creauises briefly that your deadly Poison is holesom Triacle What were this but to please men and to deceiue Goddes people But let vs go from Metaphores and come to the plaine mater If your Doctrine be false as by most sufficient waies we haue proued it to be shal we be vnciuile excepte we sooth it If your deedes be vngodly as the worlde seeth and rueth shal we be vncourteous excepte we iustifie them If ye say Nay for Yea and Yea for Nay in Goddes causes shal we be blamed as men vnciuil and vncourteous except we vpholde your Yea and your Nay We can be content to lacke the praise of suche sinneful Ciuilitie of suche wicked Courtesie If any priuely pike money out of our purses steale our goodes robbe by the high waye kil men and attempte traison to their Princes person standeth it with good manner to cal them Pikepurses Theeues Robbers Murderers Traitours and whereas you and your felowes teache and stubbornly mainteine a false doctrine concerning the real presence that here I speake of no other pointes by the Churche and by Luther him selfe the first founder of your owne Gospel condemned for Heresie must it needes be an vncourteous parte to cal you Heretiques To touche some of your rawest Gaulles for making proffer to whiche ye wince and kicke so muche euery where â—nd specially where ye laye forth al my sharpe wordes with suche diligence gathered together out of my bookes into one heape before your Preface to the Reader For so muche as it is geuen forth by Luthers owne confession that by the conference and disputation which the Deuil had with him he was persuaded to defie the Masse and become enemie to the blessed Sacrifice of the Churche and your selfe M. Iewel haue geuen your verdite in fauour of Luther and Satan Sathans doctrine Sathan their Schoole Maister In the Replie art 1. Diuision 2. allowing Satans Doctrine in that point and Luthers conformitie imbracing the same also for your owne parte as you haue openly witnessed in your Replie what offence was it to say for whiche you shewe your selfe greeued that ye ioined with Satan and concerning the spite ye beare at the Masse to cal Satan your Schoolemaister That I called this new founded Churche of the Protestantes a Babylonical tower not without iuste cause It angreth you that I cal this new Church of yours for so a Gods name we must name it Your Babylonical Tower And this is for a heinous worde scored vp among the rest in your said Rolle you tel the Quene of it also in your Epistle to her Maiestie but how iustly ye be offended therewith let it be considered by that I shal here briefly declare Dissensions among the Protestantes Who knoweth not that is any thing acquainted with the affaires of oure age into how many Sectes they haue diuided them selues that forsooke the Catholique Churche sithence Luther beganne to leade vs a newe daunce in Religion what controuersies debates and strifes about the weightiest pointes of our Faith haue benne stirred vp and moste earnestly mainteined among them Who hath not heard of the brawling and skolding betwene Luther and Zuinglius and the vpholders of either side about the Doctrine of the Euchariste Neither hath the matter benne handled with any better quiet betwene the Osiandrines and the Stancarians touching the Iustification of man the one Secte attributing it vnto Christes Diuine nature the other vnto his humaine nature onely Againe what sturre hath benne made about
my Confutation with these wordes It was not the Pope that armed Henrie the sonne against Henrie the fourth For it had ben absurde in reason and nature to make Henrie the seconde sonne to Henrie the fourth There needed not so great a Tragedie to be made for reproufe hereof Touching the pretensed leauing out of the worde Quodammodo out of S. Augustines saying Iudge reader of M. Iewels truthe by the truth in this pointe thus he aggrauateth the matter That in alleging of Liberatus I leafte out this worde quodammodo it was onely an errour For why I should of purpose doo it there was no cause specially that worde bearing in that place * Ye as si◠in that place the vvorde beareth great vveight and could not be leafte out but vvith foule corruption no greater weight But M. Harding alleging these wordes of S. Augustine Christus quodammodo ferebatur in manibus suis not of errour but as it maie be thought of set purpose leafte out Quodammodo as knowing that in that one worde rested the meaning of the whole How iustly M. Iewel excuseth him selfe and accuseth me for leauing out this worde Quodammodo To this I aunswere M. Ievvel in the Replie pag. 287. That you for your parte haue falsified Liberatus Maister Iewell you can not choose but Confesse That ye didde it by onely errour and ouersight and not of set purpose he that knoweth you as we knowe that be now acquainted with your humour can neuer beleeue it And whereas ye saie Liberatus cap. 13. that the worde quodammodo beareth smal weight in that place of Liberatus the Circumstance of the place and the storie of the time must needes conuince you See the Returne Fol. 155. a. in sequent Which thing hath benne already tolde you largely plainely and truly by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes whiche you dissemble as if you went inuisible and were not espied for an Author of suche fowle Vntruthes Ye shal neuer be hable to scoure suche spottes out of your cote M. Ievvel most impudently belieth bothe S. Augustine and me touching this vvorde Quodammodo Wel yet ye thought to excuse this your falsehed by obiecting the like vnto me But Sir what if whiles ye go about to excuse your selfe you shewe your selfe worthy to be accused bothe of me and of S. Augustine too If S. Augustines wordes be as I alleged them then who hath belied me who hath belied S. Augustine Go to S. Augustine good reader and thou shalt finde the wordes truly by me alleged and quodammodo not by any falshed leafte out at al for in that place from whence I tooke his testimonie the worde is not nor in any parte of that Sermon which I quoted See the first Concion vpon the. 33. August in Psal 33. Concione 1. sub finē psalme There he saith thus Et ferebatur in manibus suis Hoc verò fratres quomodo posset fieri in homine quis intelligat Quis enim portatur in manibus suis Manibus aliorum potest portari homo manibus suis nemo portatur Quomodo intelligatur in ipso Dauid secundùm literam non inuenimus in Christo autē inuenimus Ferebatur enim Christus in manibus suis quando commendans ipsum corpus suum Math. 26. ait Hoc est corpus meum Ferebat enim illud corpus in manibus suis c. And he was carried in his handes This brethern how it might be done in man who can vnderstande For who is borne in his owne handes With the handes of others a man may be borne with his owne handes no man is borne Christe at his supper vvas carried and borne in his ovvn handes How it maie be vnderstanded in Dauid him selfe according to the letter we finde it not but in Christe we finde it For Christe was carried in his owne handes at what time commending his owne body it selfe vnto his disciples he said This is my body For he bore that body in his owne handes c. This testimonie M. Iewel doth directly ouerthrow your doctrine of the Sacramentaries A cleare testimonie for the Real presence and teacheth vs Christes body to be really and in deede present in the most blessed Sacrament For if that substance which is in the Sacrament after consecration were but a signe a token or a figure of Christes body as they of your secte and you doo teache what cause is there why S. Augustine should make so great so straunge and so wonderful a thing of it For if it were but the figure of Christes body that he helde in his hande when he said this is my bodie what wonder was it Dauid of whom there he speaketh could haue done that yea what is that man that can not beare the figure of his bodie in his handes But S. Augustine saith that Christe did beare his owne body in his handes when at the Supper he commended it vnto his disciples sayng this is my bodie Which thing neither Dauid nor any man could euer doo And here consider Reader how S. Augustine speaketh as if it were of purpose to take awaie al occasion of cauil from suche heretiques as should denie the real presence whiche M. Iewel doth The bodie that Christ commended and gaue vnto his disciples was saith S. Augustin ipsum corpus suum his owne bodie it selfe with which vehemēcie of expresse speache he excludeth al such Tropes Figures Significations Remembrances and Energies as do derogate from the real presence And that bodie illud corpus saith he Christ did beare in his handes Which was miraculous and aboue the power of Dauid or any other man Thus we see clearely that where S. Augustine speaketh of the truth and real presence of Christes bodie borne of Christ in his owne handes he speaketh plainely and precisely without this worde Quodammodo But in an other Sermon where he speaketh not specially of his bodie being verily borne in his handes but how and after what manner it was borne in his handes there to signifie the secretnes of the Diuine Mysterie he vseth this word Quodammodo August in Psalm 33. Concio 2. For hauing demaunded this question Quomodo ferebatur Christus in manibus suis How was Christ borne in his owne handes touching the manner thus he answereth Quia quum commendaret ipsum corpus suum sanguinem suum accepit in manus suas quod norunt fideles ipse se portabat quodammodo cum diceret hoc est corpus meum For when he commended and gaue vnto his disciples his owne bodie it selfe and his owne bloude he tooke into his handes that which the Faithful do know and he him selfe did beare him selfe after a certaine manner when he said this is my bodie In which saying the worde quodammodo asmuche to saie after a certaine manner doth not withdrawe our minde from beleefe of the true presence of the bodie borne in Christes handes but from conceiuing a carnal cōmon
written if you had not changed the honest worde blame whiche I vsed The honeste vvorde blame by M. Ievvel charged into the filthy vvorde handle into the worde of vnhonest meaning handle whiche you would haue men beleeue that I vsed how should there haue risen of my wordes any opinion of il meaning Verely M. Iewel in your alteration of my wordes and placing in the steede of the worde blame the worde handle that seemed to you to serue better for your filthy purpose to disgrace myne honestie if you coulde there appeareth an euident argument both of false and also of malicious dealing Your very frendes must needes mislike with you if they haue any honestie for this your vnhonest handling You are neuer hable to auoide it cast vpon it what colours you can What woulde you sticke to speake of me were I dead that are not ashamed thus to belie me being a liue and occupied in shewing to the worlde with what impudent lyes ye blotte your papers Yet of al your foule shiftes this is one of the fowlest and such as in common persons is called you know what I am a shamed to speake it you are not a shamed to plaie the parte The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 1. Diuision 2. Pag. 90. VVe beleeue that the holy Ghost vvho is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not created not begotten but proceding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto man and vnspeakeable c. Confutation Cōfut fol. 41. b As we acknowledge this article to be true and Catholike so we demaunde of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most authoritie We are sure they haue not Therfore we doo them to vnderstand that if they heare vs not we aduertise the Readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truthe necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other Councelles be to be receiued besides the foure firste whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * Left out by M. Ievvel as that wherein this point touching the Proceding of the holy Ghoste hath benne defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Church when vpon a new doubte rising an olde Truthe is by later publications declared c. * Iewel Pag. 90. Consider M. Harding notvvithstanding ye euermore tel vs of Fathers Fathers yet hovv contrary oftentimes ye are in iudgement to the same Fathers You saie that the Godhed of the holy Ghoste can not be proued by expresse vvordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye say ye are right sure Harding That M. Iewel is not able to proue by Scripture certaine truthes whiche with the Catholiques he teacheth touching the holy Ghoste What folie is in frowardnesse The. 3. Chapt. it appeareth by M. Iewels trauaile to proue the Godhed of the holy Ghoste by Scriptures which I neuer denied nor euer gaue him such issue to proue But where he confesseth a Trinitie and that the holy Ghost is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie whiche holy Ghost also he confesseth to proceede from the Father and the Sonne though al these partes be true and Catholique yet I saie he is neuer hable to proue any of these pointes by any expresse wordes of the Scriptures Thinges beleeued and yet not expressely writen in Scripture Where can he finde this worde Trinitie in this signification in al Scripture Where hath he this worde Person in this signification in any place of the Scripture Where hath he in any expresse wordes of the Scripture that the holy Ghoste proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne Or where hath he in al the Scripture that the holy Ghost is rather the thirde Person in Trinitie then the seconde These are the pointes that M. Iewel is charged to proue by expresse wordes of Scripture and not that the Holy Ghoste is God The word Transubstantiatiō abhorred bicause it is not foūd in scripture expressely The worde Transubstantiation they abhorre bicause it is no where founde expressely in Scripture and yet they acknowledge the worde Trinitie and the worde Person both First Seconde and Thirde though these wordes be no where founde expressely in these significations in the whole bodie of the Scriptures So can these craftie Iuglers and false peruerters of Goddes truthe doo when they be disposed changing them selues into al manner colours like the beast Chameleon excepte the colour of good meaning and plaine dealing into whiche for any long time they can not change them selues Iewel Pag. 93. I trust Gentle Reader thou vvilt not looke I should ansvver al M. Hardinges ordinarie idle talke So should I loose good time vvithout cause and be ouer troublesome to thine eares O saith he what a world is it to see these Defenders They whiche haue not kepte the Vnitie of spirite in the bande of Charitie whiche S. Paule requireth but haue seuered them selues from the body of the Churche tel vs now forsooth they beleeue that there is one Churche of God O M. Harding if vve haue herein saide il then beare vvitnesse of the il If vvee haue saide vvel vvherefore make you this bitter outcries c. Harding The Protestantes claime by the great visible Churche and by the litle inuisible Churche as it serueth best their turne O M. Iewel if your saying and doctrine were one The. 4. Chapt. I would neuer reprehend you but when you say one thing openly an other thing priuily and haue diuers pointes of secrete Doctrine contrarie the one to the other when ye are driuen to the straightes as now claiming by an inuisible Churche no where appearing many hundred yeres together whiche to say the truthe is no Churche at al and now by your great visible Churche spred abrode in al kingdomes when ye haue made your packe what is this in effecte but in woordes for the time to sette foorth your beleefe of one Churche gloriously and when time wil not beare out this gaie glorious Confession of yours then as your manner is to runne to Corners to seeke some comforte of an vnknowen Inuisible Churche where both the Ministers the preachers the Sacramentes the people and their whole life are al together inuisible In the saying wherof what doo ye elles but vtterly denie that one Churche which ye ought to Confesse Iewel Pag. 93. VVe say See Reader hovv vvel this ghear is proued M. Harding fol. 25. a. that our Doctrine and the Order of our Churches is elder then yours by fiue hundred vvhole yeres and more If ye vvil not beleeue vs yet beleeue M. Harding he vvil tel you euen the same Marke vvel his vvordes These they be It standeth not with Christes promises made to the Churche that he should suffer his Churche to continew in darkenesse these thousand yeres past And
debet esse iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his ovvne cause Harding The Pope maie be iudge in the cause of the Churche Though Leos Authoritie be not greate in his ovvne cause The .29 Chapt. yet in the cause of the Churche being so auncient so holy so learned a Father by your owne graunt it must be very great The wordes you bring are of your owne forging Wherefore as ye haue hitherto benne a forger of Doctours Scriptures the Canon lawe and Gloses so now you are become a forger of the Ciuile lawe With what wordes the lawe is written here anonne you shal see But be it true that Vlpian said for so you should haue said The Emperour alleged for Vlpian and not the Emperour as your skil in the lawe vnskilfully telleth vs no man maie minister lawe vnto himselfe Yet neither he not the Emperour euer forbad but that a man maie truely reporte of his owne matters Now Pope Leo that holy man and great learned Clerke in the place by me alleged doth not minister lawe vnto him selfe in his owne cause but for the better gouernement of the Churche and that peace and good order maie the better be kepte in the Churche reporteth a difference or diuersitie of power to be emong Bishoppes with likenesse of Order and honour as S. Hierome in his epistle to Euagrius coÌ„fesseth them to be of one merite and of one Priestehood In declaring whereof he speaketh of the right that the Bishoppes of the See Apostolique S. Peters successours ought to haue in the gouernment of the vniuersal Church through out the whole worlde This M. Iewel was not his owne priuate cause but the cause of the whole Churche in whiche he might geue iudgement But M. Iewel guilfully seemeth to put the case as though there had ben many Catholiques that called Pope Leo to lawe for vsurping the authoritie not dewe vnto him and as thoughe he had ben defendant against them al yea as thoughe he had stepte vp into his iudgement seate and there sitting as a Iudge in his owne mater had pronunced sentence for him selfe Whiche thing he did not nor euer was there any catholique man that laid any suche kinde of vsurpation to his charge he neuer stoode as defendant nor sate as Iudge in his owne cause but discretely and truely as occasion serued signified vnto the worlde his lawful authoritie and his â—uccessours as Kinges vse to doo in their titles of honour and stiles If M. Iewel wil calle his double wiued lawier vnto him and with him peruse the lawe that beginneth Qui Iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet â— Qui iu risdiccioni ff de iurisdict omn. iudic neque vxori vel liberis suis c. whiche is the true lawe that he should haue alleged and wil consider that Princes Kinges and Emperours vse to doo in their owne causes by very order of lawe and if he wil therewith searche out the right meaning of the lawe L. in priuatis ff de inoffic testamen In priuatis iudicus pater filium vel filius patrem iudicem habere potest he shal finde both that he hath fondely vainely and rashly alleged a lawe that he vnderstoode not nor made any thing to his purpose but onely to fil vp paper with wordes and also that it is one thing to saie Nemo debet sibi ius dicere as he falsely allegeth the Lawe and that it is a farre other thing to saie Qui iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet neque vxori vel liberis suis neque libertis vel caeteris quos secum habet For so is the lawe vttered by Vlpianus As for your marginal note out of the Decrees you shew how barrein and poore your mater is that for defence of it you are faine to runne for helpe to notes put in the margent of the Glose a very poore shifte God wote To your marginal note I answere The Pope as there the Glosse saith if there be a mater in lawe betwen him and an other man about a temporal thing ought not him selfe to be iudge in that case and to take the thing into his owne possession before it be tried whose it is but to choose Vmpeeres to sitte vpon it Now marke what followeth good Reader 16. q. 6. Consuetudo tamen si vult esse Iudex in causa Ecclesiae potest esse yet if he list to be a iudge in a mater concerning the Churche he maie be Certainely no one thing more concerneth the wealth tranquillitie and good order of the Churche then that whiche Leo intreateth of in the epistle 84. to Anastasius the Bishop of Thessalonica whiche in my Confutation to good purpose I alleged Iewel Pag. 111. Concil Aphricanum cap. 105. Superbum seculi typhuÌ„ It is vvel knovven that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this vniuersal authoritie these many hundred yeres Pope Innocentius vvas therefore reproued of pride and vvorldely lordelinesse by the vvhole Councel of Aphrica Harding The Aphrican Councel vntruly reported by M. Iewel The 30. Chapt. The Pope hath not sought for that whiche our Lorde gaue vnto S. Peter no more then S. Peter sought for it at Christes graunt The fame he maie iustely claime for so muche as it perteineth to the feeding and gouernement of Christes flocke and to the strengthning of the faithful as being the Successour of S. Peter That you saie of Innocentius is vtterly false He was not so reproued of pride and worldely Lordelinesse as more like a proud worldely Lordeling then an humble plaine handler of Goddes Truthe you saie Neither be those wordes superbum seculi typhum which you laie forth in your Margent to be founde in any Epistle of the Aphrican Councel to Innocentius nor be they spoken or written at al against Innocentius as you beare vs in hande Neither was Innocentius then a liue when the Aphrican Councel was holden but departed this life long before I graunt there is extant an epistle of the Aphrican Councel to the learned Pope Coelestinus in whiche Epistle Innocentius that blessed man is not once touched Neither was the charitie of that whole Councel so smal as to speake so il of a holy Bishop so long before departed The manner of those Fathers was to praie for suche specially for the Bishoppes of Rome deceassed rehearsing their names in their Masses and in no wise to reporte so il of them How be it in that whole epistle Pope Innocentius is not so muche as once named nor spoken of There we finde these three wordes fumosum typhum seculi that is to saie the smoky pride of the worlde or the vaine stoutenesse of the temporaltie but in a farre other sense and to an other purpose then M. Iewel pretendeth Whether he rightly vnderstode the place or no I haue good cause to doubte It seemeth that the Bishop of Rome in the cause of Appiarius whom
proufe is nedelesse the thing is manifest * Harding Here treating of Succession as thou seest Reader I haue among other things brought forth TertulliaÌ„ demauÌ„ding of the Heretikes the Original of their Churches Tertul. lib. de praescription and the Register of their Bishops succeding one an an other from the beginning til his tyme. Againe I haue alleged S. Augustine naming 38. Popes of Rome in order August Epist 165 and thereof coÌ„cluded that bicause neuer a one of them was a Donatist the Donatists were al Heretikes Whereupon I also concluded that seing among al the Popes from S. Peter til this daie none was of M. Iewels opinion he and his felowes the Zuinglians and Caluinistes must by the rule S. of Augustine be taken for Heretiques For the true Churche is where the true ordinarie and manifest Succession is from the Apostles til these our dayes This only I require of thee gentle reader that thou woldest vouchesafe to reade this matter through and not to iudge before al be heard For in deede following M. Iewelles confuse order of writing I could not dispose my thinges in such Methode and Order as the weight of the matter requireth Bicause the matter is of importance I intend to leaue out no parte of M. Iewelles woordes whereby he maie seeme to impugne the Catholique doctrine And by the treatie of this one poynte it will appeare what huge bookes we should write if we should directe a ful answer to euerie parte of his idle talke in the pretensed Defence conteined Thus then he beginneth Iewel Pag. 127. Here hath M. Harding taken some paines more then ordinarie He thought if he could by any coloure make the vvorld beleeue vve haue neither Bisshoppes nor Priestes nor Deacons this daie in the Church of England he might the more easily claime the vvhole right vnto himselfe And in deede if it vvere certaine that the religion and truth of God passeth euermore orderly by Succession and none othervvise then vvere Succession vvhereof he hath tolde vs so long a tale a verie good substantial Argument of the Truth Harding Irenaeus saith it is a certaine Rule to knowe the Truth by For hauing reckened twelue Popes who in order succeded after S. Peter to wit Linus Anacletus Clemens Euaristus Alexander Sixtus Telesphorus Hyginus Pius Aniceâ—â— Soter and Eleutherius who then was the twelfth Bishop from the Apostles Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 3. immediatly he saith thus Hac ordinatione successione ea quae est ab Apostolis in Ecclesia Traditio veritatis praeconiatio peruenit vsque ad nos Et est pleâ—issima haec â—stensio vnim eandem viuificatricem fidem esse quae in Ecclesia ab Apostolis vsque nunc sit coÌ„seruata troditain veritate By this order and Succession the Tradition and preaching of the truth whiche is in the Churche from the Apostles time came euen to our daies And this is a most ful declaration that the faith whiche is kept in the Churche and deliuered in truth from the Apostles time euen til this present hower is the one selfe same faith which is the causer of life and of saluation He saith it is a most ful declaration of the true and liuely faith And you wil confesse I trow that where that faith is there is the true Churche of God Such a Succession of Bishoppes in diuers countries we haue and can shew it from the Apostles time til this daie As the rew and order of Popes in al Chronicles doth shew to the eie and witnesseth to the vnderstanding But such a Succession M. Iewel and his fellowes haue not therefore by his owne confession we haue a good substantial Argument of the Truth Iewel Pag. 127. But Christe saith In cathedra Moysi sederunt Scribae Pharisaei by order of succession the scribes Math. 22. and Pharisees sitte in Moyses chaier Harding Wel handled M. Iewel You bring these wordes as though Christe had spoken them in the reproche of Succession Whereas Christ in that place made an ArgumeÌ„t for Succession in this wise Super cathedram Moysi sederunt Scriba Pharisaei Math. 23. omnia ergo quaecunque dixerint vobis seruate facite Vpon the chaier of Moyses the Scribes and Pharisees haue sitten Therefore kepe ye and do ye what so euer they saie vnto you or commaund you to kepe Could you not see that Ergo M. Iewel whiche is to saie Therefore Could you not perceiue that Christ made a plaine argument why and why only the Scribes and Pharisees should be obeied The matter goeth as if in moe wordes it had ben thus said The Scribes and Pharisees be naughtie men their workes are not to be folowed they â—ie heauy and importable burdens laying them on mens shoulders Math. 23. but they themselues wil not so much as once mâ—â—â— them with their finger They do al their workes for a shew Thus Christ him selfe doth paint them forth al whiche notwithstanding for onely Successions sake bicause by order of Succession they sit in Moyses chaier which my father and I haue planted in respecte thereof doo ye and kepe what so euer they commaund you to doo and kepe Mark the vvord of keeping Marke that he bindeth the people to obeie the very Scribes for Successions sake and to obeye them in keeping and obseruing the former lawes and rites To keepe I saye Beware of that Bishop who not succeding but vsurping the Chaier of good men as M. Iewel doth hauing iustled him selfe into the Chaier of good S. Osmund and others mo in the Churche of Sarisburie doth yet commaund the people not to keepe thinges but to cast them away These nevv Bisshoppes vvil not the people to kepe their faith but to chaÌ„ge their faith There is no Bishop of this newe Religion that commaundeth the people to keepe their olde faith and law but alwaies he biddeth them to change it But Christe bad the people to doo that whiche the Pharisees commaunded them to keepe and not to folow their deedes The Pharisees killed Christe but by keeping their lawes and Orders they should neuer haue come thereto If euer place of holy Scripture made for any truth in the Gospel this place which M. Iewel bringeth against Succession maketh for it and so for it that it can neuer be auoided What Doctor euer wrote vpon the holy Scriptures who might not now be brought for a witnesse of this my assertion S. Augustine saith that Christe made the people secure concerning euil Rulers Ne propter illos doctrinae salutaris Cathedra descreretur August Epist 166. in qua coguntur etiam mali bona dicere Neque enim suae sunt quae dicunt sed Dei qui in cathedra Vnitatis doctrinam posuit veritatis Lest for their sakes the chaier of holesom Doctrine should be forsaken in the whiche yea wicked men are forced to saie that whiche is good For the thinges whiche they saie are not their owne but Gods who in
doctrine is to be adiudged to come of lying as that which sauoureth against the truth of the Churches of the Apostles of Christ and of God Our doctrine proued to be true by the Successiō of the Apostolique Churche Now concerning our Churches it is euident that we agree with the original and mother Churches which were planted by the Apostles For we agree in faith with the Churche of Rome which was planted by the most blessed Apostles S. Peter and S. Paule and alwaies kepte her Succession til this present daie and therefore our doctrine is true But you agree in faith with no Churche at al now extant in the worlde which came from the Apostles and therefore your doctrine by the rule of Tertullian is false and lying Whiles he then disputed with Heretikes as we doo now with you he said either these Heretikes confesse that they beganne since the Apostles time and they are false teachers or if any of them dare intrude them selues into the Apostles age Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum then let them bring forth the beginninges or shew the original euidences of their Churches let them vnfold the order of their Bishops so ronning along from the beginning by Succession that he who is the first Bishop had for his founder and predecessour one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men who continued til the ende with the Apostles in the same faith Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae census suos deferunt For by this way the Apostolike churches do shew forth along their publike registers At length hauing brought forth the examples of the Churche of Smyrna and of the Churche of Rome and of other like Churches he concludeth thus confidenly Consingant tale aliquid Haeretic◠let the Heretiques feine some suche matter He bad them feme For he wel knewe in truth they coulde shew no suche Succession I haue then shewed that Tertullian spake not of Heretikes who lacked the pretense of Gods worde M. Ievvels Doctrine is proued by Tertulliā erroneus for lacke of Succession proued but of them who had no Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne age And one such Succession of Bishoppes in any one Church of al the worlde seing M. Iewel can not bring forth it remaineth that he is an Heretike and that his Doctrine is erroneus false and heretical Iewel Tertullian saith not vnto vs but vnto you and suche as you be let them shevv forth the Originals of their Churches Harding Is that al he saith M. Iewel Why went you not forth to the next wordes The Scrolles or rolles of Bishops names Let them vnfold the order of their Bishoppes He calleth it vnfolding bicause the Bishoppes names were vsed to be kept and written in order in long Rolles the whiche Rolles must be vnfolded when they are to be read He meant not therefore such Originals M. Iewel as you imagine to wit particular examples of this or that facte but he meant the Original copies or instrumentes and euidences of founding and planting of their Churche who it was that preached the Faith first vnto them and who was their first Bishop who the second who the third and so forth vntil the present time Iewel Euen so vve say vnto you shevv vs the Originals of your doctrine Harding You say not euen right so as Tertullian said For he called not for the Originals of Doctrine but of Churches Originals of Churches For by the Churches the Doctrine is knowen to be good or euil to be allowable or reproueable Iewel Shevv vs any one of the Apostles of Christe or of the learned Catholike Doctours of the Churche that euer said your priuate Masse Shevv one at the lest either Greeke or Latine Harding It was not that which Tertullian required He demaunded only for the Originals of Churches and for the order and Succession of Bishops But for that you durst not cal knowing that we could shew how S. Augustine conuerted vs being sent into England from S. Gregorie the Pope whiche Pope S. Gregorie succeded S. Peter in his Chaier Thus we can shew the Originals of our Churches bringing them from the Catholike Bishops whiche are yet aliue M. Ievvslyly diuerteth from the present matter to an other mater impertinent touching priuate Masse vpward vntil S. Peter But you are fallen away from the matter of Succession which only Tertullian presseth and are now come to demaunde of a particular facte whether any Apostle or olde Father euer said priuat Masse or no. I say al of them might haue said priuate Masse and that I proue by Tertullians reason and rule bicause the vse of saying priuate Masse came to vs time out of minde by Succession without any change or innouation noted therin by any storie or Chronicle And yet was ther neuer any strange or new thing receiued and vsed in the Churche but that great trouble came thereof as now there doth of your changing of Religion the whiche trouble of Churches and common Weales is at no time omitted in the stories of that age wherein it falleth But now seing the vse of saying priuat Masse came so peaseably to vs from hand to hand and no first author thereof can be shewed it is out of al controuersie that it was euer accompted a Godly and a lawful thing But what neede I now to repeate that I haue already written in that argument Answer that parte of my booke better to the purpose then yet ye haue donne whiche treateth of that point where many plaine euidences be brought forth of Sole Receiuing Sole Receiuing in the Primitiue Churche In my ansvvere Art 1. and likevvise in my first Reioindre Aug. Epi. 165. whiche Sole Receiuing is the onely thing for whiche you reproue priuate Masse as you cal it It is cleare that S. Chrysostom and certaine others said Masse and yet had no man to receiue with them as I haue other where declared I thinke not good now to fal into that Disputation againe and therefore here I wil cal you home to the present Argument of Succession Iewel Pag. 128. 129. S. Augustine saith of so many Bishops of Rome there could not one be found that had benne a Donatiste Euen so in like sorte say vve to you of al the same Bishops of Rome there can not be one found that euer agreed vvith M. Harding in saying Masse Or if there vvere any such shevv his name vvith other Circumstances vvhen and vvhere and vvho vvere vvitnesses of the doing Shevv vs your Originals M. Harding Confesse the Truth deceiue vs no longer It is a nevv deuise ye haue it only of your selues and not by Succession from the Apostles Harding You pretend to reason like S. Augustine as though he had reasoned vpon a particular facte and not vpon the Doctrine Euen so in like sorte say you and it is not euen so nor in like sorte S. Augustine concluded that the Donatistes were Heretikes S. Augustines
am ioyned in communion to the Chaire of Peter vpon that Rocke I knowe the Churche is builte Iewel Pope Adrian the fourth vvas vvoont to saye vve succede not Peter in feeding but Romulus in killing Harding Were it true you would haue named your authour Now your saying semeth to procede out of your owne Forge But what if it were true that Pope Adrian said so by waye of complaint This proueth that as some of his predecessours were euil men so alwaies God gaue his grace to some other Popes to disallowe their faultes and yet to continewe their Faith Doctrine and Succession Iewel Pag. 132. And to leane Dame Ioan the vvoman Pope vvith many others mee of like vertue and holinesse as hauing no pleasure in this rehersal Harding There was no such woman Pope and yet God knoweth you take stil great pleasure in the rehersal of a vaine dreame as you doo of many other false tales dreamed first by Martinus Polonus Iewel For as much as M. Harding began this matter vvith Sarisburie to ende it vvith the same Ioannes Sarisburiensis saith In Polya cratico in Romana Ecclesia sedent Scribae Pharisaei In the Church of Rome by Succession sitte the Scribes and Pharisees Harding The matter that I began here to treate of was not of Sarisburie but of your SuccessioÌ„ in Sarisburie for which notwithstanding the huge stuffe you bring you shewe your selfe to haue nothing to saie Touching Ioannes Sarisburiensis if it were so that Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Churche of Rome yet you should be damned for departing from them 3. Reg. 12. euen as Ieroboam was for departing from the Chaire of Moyses You are bound to communicate in Doctrine with the chiefe Chaier what soeuer they be that sit in it For Christe bad vs kepe that Matt. 23. which they commaunde Now as the Scribes and Pharisees sitting in the Chaire of Moyses did exactly kepe his Succession and witnessed the continuance of that Temple whereunto al the Iewes were bound So the Popes of Rome sitting in S. Peters Chaire do exactly mainteine his Succession and witnesse that to be the true Rocke and Churche whereunto al we are bound to be obedient as sheepe to the chiefe Pastour But sith you are desirous to end this matter begonne as you saye of Sarisburie with Sarisburie whereby you meane the auctoritie of Ioannes Saresburiensis therewith I am right wel contente For your parte that is to say against the Churche of Rome whose faith we professe whatsoeuer be the manners of some great persons in that Churche you allege Iohn of Sarisburie saying that Scribes and Pharisees sitte in the Churche of Rome True it is these wordes be in Iohn of Sarisburie in deede As for the Addition by Succession it is your owne it is not his But you must vnderstand they be not his owne wordes as spoken by him selfe but reported by him as wordes of the common people For being required of Pope Adrian the fourth who was an Englishman in familiar talke whereto for his learning and wisdome he was admitted to declare freely what was commoÌ„ly said abroade of the Pope and of the Churche of Rome among other thinges bruted abroade by waye of complaint specially against the Briberie and coueteousnes of great personages of that Churche he rehersed those wordes out of the Gospel Matt. 23. At the ende of his tale thus he concluded Iohannes Sarisburiensis in Polycratico de curialium nugis lib. 6. cap. â—4 signifiing whose tale he tolde Haec inquam Pater loquitur populus quandoquidem vis vt illius tibi sententias proferam These thinges Father the people speaketh for asmuch as you wil haue me to vtter vnto you what they saie Thus M. Iewel by testimonie of your Ihon of Sarisburie you proue nothing against our Doctrine of Succession but onely put vs in mynd what the common people in those dayes said of the gouernours of the Church If you would with as good sinceritie haue alleged on the other side what good he in the same booke and Chapter reporteth of them as with malice you reherse the euil you should haue laid forth a very good tale for them For immediatly after the wordes before rehersed thus it foloweth there Et tu inquit quid sentis And what is your opinion quod the Pope Thereto answereth Iohn of Sarisburie Angustiae inquam sunt vndique Vereor enim ne mendacij vel adulationis cortraham notam si solus populo contradixero Sin autem reatum vereor Maiestatis ne tanquam qui os in coelum posuerim crucem videar meruisse I am driuen quod he to straightes on euery side For I feare me I shal be noted for a Lyer or a flatterer if I alone be in my tale contrarie to the people Elles if I should saie as they saie I feare the gilte of treason least I seme to haue deserued the pounishment of death being as it were one that haue set my mouth vp against heauen This Preface semeth to conteine the wordes of one that intendeth to vtter the truth plainly and discretely And although there in deede he touche the Popes and the Romaine Clergies faultes freely yet on the other side he confesseth him selfe moued in coÌ„science to speake muche also in the praise of many These be his wordes Vnum tamen audacter conscientia teste profiteor Ibidem quia nusquà m honestiores Clericos vidi quà m in Ecclesia Romana aut qui magis auaritiam detestentur Albeit some be faulty yet one thing my conscience bearing me witnesse I dare be bolde to saie that no where I haue sene Clerkes of more honestie then in the Churche of Rome or that doo more deteste coueteousnes Of such good and vertuous Clerkes there he reckeneth vp some by name At length speaking of the number of the good in general he saith Plurium tanta modestia tanta grauitas est vt Fabriciâ— non inueniantur inferiores quem agnita salutis via modis omnibus antecedunt The modestie and grauitie of the more parte of them is so great that they are founde nothing inferior to Fabricius the noble Romaine of famous memorie for his vertue whom in respecte of that they acknowlege the waie of Saluation which he knew not being an Infidel by al meanes they passe and excelle Then folow these wordes immediatly which are most to our purpose and most worthy of consideration Quia verò instas vrges praecipis cùm certum sit quòd Spiritui sancto mentiri non licet fateor quia quod praecipis faciendum est si non sitis omnes operibus imitandi Nam qui a doctrina vestra dissentit aut haereticus aut schismaticus est For asmuche as you are instant vpon me and wil haue no nay and commaunde me to saie what I thinke sith it is certaine that I maie not lye vnto the holy Ghoste I graunte that what you commaunde vs to doo we must doo although ye be not
to marrie a wife or no here I dispute not I confesse the Single state of the Clergie not to be Iuris Diuini expressely but Iuris Ecclesiastici positiui And to say that the Pope may in no case at al dispense with a Priest of the West Churche or with a religious person to marrie it is against the Diuines against the Canonistes and against the authoritie Raymeriâ— made kiÌ„g of AragoÌ„ of a MoÌ„ke and married by dispensation See the historie of Franciscus Tarapha which the Churche of Rome hath in some cases vsed de facto as they speake as it is knoweÌ„ by the example of Raymeris the king of Aragon in Spaine with whom about the yere of our Lorde 1160. the Pope dispensed yea he compelled him as we reade to geue ouer the Profession of his Religion and to marrie whiche is more then to dispense with a secular Priest for sauing of Christian bloud and for the necessary disposition of that kingdom The like example happened in the kingdome of Pole Casimirus the onely that remained a liue of the kinges bloud Munster Cosmographiae lib. 3. in Schlesia lib. 4. in Polonia Mart. Cromerus being a Moonke and a Deacon by sute of the Nobles of that realme Dispensation of the Pope obteined was taken out of his monasterie of the Order of Cisterce made Kinge of Pole and married But suche a singular case maketh no common rule Againe where a thing is not done but by special dispensation the dispensation it selfe argueth the same of it selfe that is to say considered without dispensation to be vnlawful Therefore my Assertion that no man may marrie after holy Orders receiued and that such Marriage was neuer accompted lawful in the Catholique Churche standeth true as before Iewel Athanasius saith Athanas ad Dracontium Multi quoque ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierunt Monachi contrà Parentes liberorum facti sunt Many of the Bisshoppes he saith not al but many haue not married By vvhiche vvoordes he geueth vs to vnderstande that some haue married contrarievvise Monkes haue becomme fathers of Children Harding This testimonie is bodged with your forged Parentheses Whereby you signifie that of it selfe and without addition of your owne wordes it helpeth you litle Al standeth vpon trial of the translation If you could haue alleged S. Athanasius owne wordes as he wrote in Greeke a right answere might soone be made The translatour litle thinking of their sleightes that be Proctours for the Marriages of Votaries had rather hauing respect to the finenesse of the Latine so to turne it then otherwise If the place were thus latined Multi ex Episcopis matrimonia non inierant or non habuerunt Monachi contrà parentes liberoruÌ„ extiterunt whereby is signified that many Bishops had neuer contracted Marriages and that some Monkes had ben fathers of children if the place had thus benne turned as I suppose the Greeke hath it would haue serued you to no purpose For I graunt you that some bishops haue had wiues but before they were made Bishops as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes father and Gregorie of Nyssa S. Basils brother and that some Monkes were fathers of children whiche they begote in lawful wedlocke before they entred into that profession and order of life Albeit if we allowed you this translation for good and true according to the Greeke yet of these woordes you can not conclude that by iudgement of S. Athanasius the Marriages of bishops are accompted lawful by the circuÌ„stance of the place in that Epistle to Dracontius S. Athanasius may seeme to speake those wordes in dispraise of certaine Bishops and Monkes and not at al in their commendation and so you ought not to allege it for an allowed example But hereof we shal be more assured if they of Basile wil sette foorth that Fathers workes in Greeke Iewel Pag. 176. Cassiodorus vvriteth thus Cassio li. 6. cap. 14 In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they say Eupsychius the Bishop of Caesaria died in Martyrdom hauing married a vvise a litle before being as yet in manner a nevv married man Harding A man would thinke if this wil not serue the turne that nothing wil serue A blessed man Eupsychius bishop of Caesaria a holy Martyr married to a wise but a litle before his Martyrdome The writer of the Storie Cassiodorus a noble man and graue Senator of Rome a man of good credite What can a man desire more But phy vpoÌ„ such shamelesse falsifiers O lamentable state A falshod in excusable and in tollerable of M. Ievv where the people of God be coÌ„pelled to heare such false Prophetes What wil he feare to speake in pulpite where he is sure no man shal control him that is not ashamed thus to write in bookes openly published vnto the world which he knewe should not escape the examination of his Aduersaries The truth is good Reader Neither Cassiodorus wrote thus nor Eupsychius was euer Bishop of Caesaria nor of any other place nor so much as a Priest Deacon or Subdeacon The writer of the Storie which we haue of this blessed Martyr Eupsychius is Sozomenus the Greeke Who with the Ecclesiastical Storie of Socrates and Theodoritus was translated into Latine by one Epiphanius Scholasticus out of whiche three Cassiodorus gathered the AbridgemeÌ„t that we haue vnder the name of the Tripartite historie Histor Tripartit lib. 6. c. 14 The place truly reported hath these wordes In illo tempore ferunt vitam finisse Martyrio Basilium Ecclesiae Ancyranae Presbyterum Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae ducta nuper vxore cùm adhuc quasi Sponsus esse videretur They say that at that time Basiliê° a Priest of the Church of Ancyra ended his life in Martyrdom Also Eupsychius the Caesarian of Cappadocia hauing married a wife a litle before and when as yet he seemed to be but a new married man Here is no mencion made that Eupsychius was the bishop of Caesaria The storie as we haue it in Latine of Epiphanius turning calleth him only Eupsychium Caesariensem Cappadociae that is to say Eupsychius a maÌ„ of Caesaria that is in Cappadocia whiche is added to signifie of whiche Caesaria he was for that there was an other famous Citie of that name in Palestina an other likewise in Mauritania and others moe in other countries Sozomenus him selfe who is the authour of the Storie addeth a worde more signifying of what estate and condition he was whereby the opinion of his being the Bishoppe of Caesaria is quite taken awaye For thus he reporteth of him in the Greeke Sozomen lib. 5. c. 11 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. EupsychiuÌ„ Caesariensem Cappadociae PatriciuÌ„ asmuch to say Eupsychius of Caesaria in Cappadocia a nobleman or one of the Lordes of the Citie Thus is Eupsychius whom M. Iewel hath made a Bishop as much as
alleged For pride is no substance nor creature at al. Man only in his vnderstanding considereth it as somewhat whereas it is only a defecte and failing from humilitie For God neuer made vice Pride is a vice and therefore 〈…〉 But what shal a man saie to this fellow When the name of Substance seemeth to make for him then it standeth properly as the Philosophers vse the worde which is in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but when it seemeth to make against him then it standeth for grace faith wordes and Sacramentes which in some writers are named Substance as the diuines somtimes vse the terme whereto the Greeke terme Hypostasis answereth as S. Paule vseth it Heb. 11. How the Church is resolued in doubtful cases The truth is that seing wordes for the more parte are doubteful ambiguous and subiect to cauilles Christ hath not planted his Church in such sorte vpon wordes that his faithful members should thereby be diuided into many sectes For as he considering our infirmitie lefte vnto vs his holy wil conceiued in such wordes as menne vse in their common speache he lefte also with those wordes a high Pastor Iohan. 21. Luc. 22. by whom we should be fed for whose faith he prayed and his prayer is heard To which chiefe Pastor he gaue power and commaundement to strengthen and cōfirme his brethren So that it is in dede litle worth to hange of syllables and letters but it behoueth vs alwaies to seeke for the meaning of the worde And bicause we should neuer agree among our selues vpon wordes Math. 18. he bound vs to heare the Church the chiefe and ordinarie mouth whereof S. Peter was whiles he liued and after him the Bishops of Rome his Successours haue euer had the same place He then that wil be sure to know how euery worde that belongeth to matter of the faith must be taken in this or in that place of holy Scripture or of holy writers must be ruled by the mouth of his chiefe Pastor Act. 20. Now that Pastor calling to him out of al the worlde the chiefe and best learned Bishoppes ordeined by the holy Ghoste Gouernours of particular flockes hauing seene and heard al that might be said too and fro in the middest of foure hundred threescore and ten Bishoppes and of moe then a thousand learned Diuines besides the assistance of the holy Ghoste called for mature deliberation had and diligent examination of the Scriptures and holy Fathers made founde and by al their consente determined Concil Lateranen ca. 1. that the substance of bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Aulter is by the power of Gods worde changed into the substance of Christes Body and Bloud After whiche determination we know how Gelasius and how Theodoritus must of necessitie be vnderstanded if at the lest we wil heare the Churche as vnder paine of damnation we are bound to doo This answer may suffice al the cauilles that are moued and tossed by M. Iewel touching nature substance subsistence or any like worde Al wordes are ambiguous as S. Augustine confesseth In lib. de Dialecti The highest iudge in the highest courte of Christendome hath geuen sentence He that obeieth hath humilitie and seeth his grounde He that being loth to seeme deceiued wrangleth as M. Iewel doth is proude vaine contentious and disobedient which custome Heretikes haue and euer haue had but as S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 11. the Church of God hath it not Iewel Pag. 262. 263. To leaue these vnfruitful gheasses vve saie that the cuppe of blessing vvhich Christ calleth the Cuppe of the nevv Testament notvvithstanding it vvere made in a Mysterie the Sacrament of Christes Bloude yet in nature and substance vvas very vvine stil and as Christe him selfe calleth it the very fruite and generation of the grape as it vvas before The vvordes of the Euangelist S. Mathevv are very plaine Harding Would God I could so clearely shew to the Reader as the weight of this matter requireth how lewdly you playe as wel with the Gospel as with me It is not I M. Iewel that am incōstant in saying now these wordes were spoken before consecration and now after and perhaps at both times whereat you ieast and scoffe it is not I that changed my minde But whereas one of the Euangelistes telleth the matter one waye and the other an other waye and whereas sometimes they tel thinges out of order as your selfe can not but graunt my answer must needes be such as by al meanes to saue the truthe of the Gospel that howsoeuer these wordes were spoken which be obscure yet the plaine truth should not be hindred by them You sticke to the plaine wordes of S. Matthew as you saie And why sir I praye you may not I as wel claime that S. Lukes wordes are as plaine Luc. 22. I then haue myne eye to bothe and so make a distinction shewing how bothe together may be defended You litle esteming S. Luke talke to vs onely of S. Matthew whereby you declare that you beleue none other Euangeliste ne none other word of God beside your owne fansie Likewise you dissemble how diuersly the Fathers haue expounded the fruite of the Vine and vtter many wordes about a most knowen truth The fruit of the vine which no man denieth wherein as you deserue smal praise of learning so you lose amonge the wise the commendation of discretion For answer to al which I saie that it is a certaine case and cleere out of question that there was wine in Christes chalice whereof the Sacramēt should be made and yet forsoothe you would nedes proue it in many Pages together Againe I say that as there was wine in the chalice whereof the Sacrament should be made so after it was made there was no more the substance of wine And that I wil proue so plainely That after cōsecration there vvas no more the substance of vvine in Christes cup. Luc. 22. that you shal neuer be hable to answer to it Christe him selfe said if at the leste you admitte S. Lukes Gospel This Cuppe is the newe Testament in my Bloude whiche cuppe is shedde or shal be shedde for you The Cuppe shal be shedde for vs saith Christe that is to saye the liquour conteined in the Cuppe shal be shedde for vs. But natural or artificial wine was not shed for vs but onely Christes owne Bloude was shed for vs Ergo onely Christes owne Bloude is in that Cuppe and the substance of wine is not there at al. The wordes are plaine that which is in the Cup or chalice shal be shed for vs that was onely Christes Bloude Therefore onely Christes Bloude is in the Cuppe or Chalice But Christes Bloude is no wine excepte wee cal it wine in suche respecte as Christe him selfe is called the Vine and the grape Therefore no material wine of the common grape is in the Cuppe of Christes Supper Chrysost in 1. Cor. 10. With
certaine mo the like be those which I haue let passe as being partely vnnecessarie and vnprofitable partely vnmeete good houres to be bestowed about them By the handeling of these the weightier pointes it wil sufficiently appeare to al menne with what stuffe he filleth his great Bookes what smal credite he deserueth how litle pith there is to be found in his multitude of wordes how litle there is that serueth aptly to the purpose among the great heapes of testimonies that he laieth together Surely his Defence being wel examined by any man that hath skil and can iudge of these points it must needes be thought that when he saw he had not the plaine truth of his side yet with multitude of allegations he would make a shew of learning to the ignorant and trouble the answerer with confusion Euen so many Barbarous Princes as we reade in stories when they lacked a conuenient number of good and tried Souldiers haue gonne about to fraie their enemies with multitude of people who haue learned by their great ouerthrowes that oftentimes victorie is not obteined by multitude of menne In deede the Truth needeth not so many sayinges piked out of Schoolemenne of Summistes of Gloses vpon Gratian and other partes of the Canon Lawe and out of so many Canonistes of al sortes For trial of a mater to be prooued true in questions touching our beleefe one saying of the Scripture is sufficient if the expresse Scripture faile vs twoo or three Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers not being contrarie to the reste maie suffice But suche a confuse and vnorderly number of sayinges specially of suche as be not of great estimation as this man commonly allegeth of the same not one making cleerely for this purpose in moste matters what doth it els but breede a suspicion among the wise that the matter is not true for proufe whereof they be alleged But by this meane he thought to winne credit at least with the people For the people that can not iudge of these matters thinketh him best learned that hath most woordes It is knowen that when they beholde two reasoning together of any thing whereof they haue no skil commonly they commend the mainteiner of the worse cause in case he be fuller of wordes be they neuer so litle to the purpose and say in his praise that he answered the other partie to euery Quare M. Iewel vnderstanding this and making his most accompte of the people and of them that be vnlearned to whom he leaneth and by multitude of whom he and they of his side mind to stand for touching the learned they see they can winne none bestoweth great paines and charges to set out great bookes that at least in the opinion of the vnlearned and of them that haue not leisure to examine the points how substantially they are treated he maie seeme to haue done iolily and to haue acquited him selfe like a great Clerke In very deede if a man haue care howe muche he maie saie rather then how truly and feare not to vtter vntruthes he hath this aduantage ouer his aduersarie defending the truth with a conscience not to swarue from the censure of the Church that he may alwaies finde abundance of matter to vtter For as it hath of olde ben said Mendacium est multiplex veritas simplex Lying is manifolde Truth is simple Lying hath many plaites and foldinges Truth is without plaite or wrinckle Therefore it is no marueile if the Treaties of the one be narrowe and shorte of the other wide and long As for me if I prooue M. Iewel an vntrue man in so many pointes as I haue treated of I haue donne that whereby his credite must be broken His credite being broken what remaineth but that in this kinde of trade he go for a Banckroute If he be a Banckrout worthily is he to be begiled that trusteth him Some wil say perhaps it is not likely I should with so smal a booke discredit him that hath written so much But it maie please this man to remember that to saie the truth it is not M. Iewel that hath written muche He hath taken muche out of other mens bookes of his owne he hath in maÌ„ner nothing certainely very litle So that peruse his Booke who wil he shal finde that he is but a seely Translatour of other mens wordes a heaper together of al Writers sayings and that most commonly to more ostentation of tale then to the making vp of good weight So that if thinges be brought to an exact trial he shal be found no disputer no reasoner no discourser no Writer but only a gatherer together of other mennes Sentences How be it it is not the hugenesse of a booke that argueth the sufficiencie of proufes Truth is content to be set foorth with few wordes Neither yet doo I reproue him for that he allegeth what he findeth in other Writers For therby we bring credite to doubteful matters But for that alleging so much he allegeth so litle to the purpose yea in manner nothing and boldly wil I auouche it vtterly nothing for due proufe of any his new and strange doctrines being contrarie to that of ancient time hath benne beleeued in the Catholique Churche This shal seeme more probable if it be confirmed by some plaine and true examples Lette vs then examine M. Iewelles common demeanour in an example or twoo To discusse many the breuitie of a Preface wil not permitte O that he were in place to choose the example him selfe out of his whole Booke to his best aduantage that so it might euidently appeare with what weake tooles he fighteth against the truth ExaÌ„ples vvhereby it is shewed hovve vvith void and impertineÌ„t stuffe M. Ievvel filleth his great Booke Defence Pag. 163. Heb. 13. Confut. 73 b. Marke hovv M. Ievv alvvaies keepeth him selfe from coÌ„ming vnto the point in controuersie Whereas in the Apologie much is said in the commeÌ„dation of Matrimonie which no Catholique man euer discommended as that it is Holy and honorable in al sortes and states of personnes in the Apostles in the Ministers of the Church and in Bisshops and that it is an honest and lawful thing as S. Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in Matrimonie to take vpon him therewith the dignitie of a Bisshop to this I saie in my Confutation that albeit Matrimonie be holy and honorable in al and an vndefiled â—eâ— as S. Paule saith yet that it is not lawful for such personnes to marrie who haue deliberately vowed Chastitie or haue taken holy Orders This there I prooue by good and sufficient authoritie as it maie be seene in my said Confutation Now what is M. Iewels part here to proue for maintenaÌ„ce of his doctrine but that a man notwithstaÌ„ding his Vow or receiuing of holy Orders maie lawfully marrie This is the very point of the controuersie and thereto onely should he haue directed his talke If he go about any thing els it is beside the purpose But consider
others whiche he thought best to conceele and dissemble One thing good Reader it behoueth thee much to be warned of in case thou desire to stande an vpright vmpeere betwen M. Iewel and me Vpon what places so euer thou shalt happen to light in which he shal seeme to haue any good aduantage against me or against the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche passe not them ouer lightly weigh wel both our groundes examine both our allegations truste not to ought that is laid forth by either of vs presently but resort to the Bookes whence euery thing is taken Doing so thou shalt most certainely perceiue whether of vs both vseth more truth Doubtlesse in such places thou shalt seldō it were much so saie neuer find him to allege the wordes whereby he pretēdeth any colour of aduantage without some false sleight or other If thou desire to vnderstand this by some examples consider I praie thee what great a doo he maketh about the name of Vniuersal Bishop Vniuersal Bishop As he handleth that matter if a man wil beleeue him al thinges seeme to be plaine on his side Defence 120. The Coūcel of Carthage saith he decreed by expresse wordes that the Bishop of Rome should not be called the Vniuersal Bishop And behold Reader the confidēce that he hath in this cause which he sheweth with these wordes speaking vnto me This you saie is forged and falsified and is no part of that Conucel For indifferēt trial both of the truth ād of the falshed herein I besech you behold the very wordes of the Councel euen as they are alleged by your owne Doctour Gratian. These they are Prima Sedi◠Episcopus c. Let not the Bishoppe of any of the first Sees be called the Prince of Priestes Dist 99. Primae or the highest Priest or by any like name but onely the Bishoppe of the first See But let not the Bishoppe of Rome him selfe be called the Vniuersal Bishoppe c. Now M. Harding compare our wordes and the Councelles wordes together We saie none otherwise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome him selfe ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop Herein we doo neither adde nor minis he but reporte the wordes plainely as we finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and would haue tried this matter as you saie by your learning ye might wel haue reserued these vnciuile reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpō this Defender Here is muche a doo as thou feest Reader and al standeth vpon falshed as I said at the first in my Confutation We striue not for the name of Vniuersal Bishop neither hath the Pope Challenged that title Yet these menne haue neuer donne with Vniuersal Bishop The whole matter is soone answered These wordes vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Concil Carthag 3 Cap. 26. The Bishop of Rome ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop these wordes I saie be not the wordes of the thirde Councel of Carthage nor in the Greeke nor in the Latine but the wordes of Gratian and they stande for the Summe of that parte of the distinction whiche there foloweth And thereof M. Iewel was not ignorant as it appeareth by his owne wordes in the same place Howbeit were it true that Gratian had ignorantly added them to the Councel as wordes of the Coūcel what learned man trusteth Gratian a man not greatly trusted in respect of sundrie his allegations when it is easy to see the Original For this I referre the Reader to the 39. Chapter of the third Booke of this Treatie fol. 184. b. Perusing that I haue answered to this point there thou shalt fully vnderstand how falsly M. Iewel hath dealte therein and how litle cause he had so to triumphe For neither hath the Councel any suche woordes at al nor speaketh it there so much as one worde of the Bishop of Rome nor hath Gratian put those wordes as a testimonie of the Councel but as the Summe of that parte of the 99. Distinction which immediatly foloweth As wel might M. Iewel haue said that those other wordes there placed vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis had ben the wordes of that Councel He that knoweth Gratians manner of writing can not but either laugh at M. Iewelles ignorance or maruaile at his impudencie To proue that it is lawful for a man to marrie a wife being in holy Orders The example of Eupsychius he allegeth the example of one Eupsychius who was a Laie Gentleman of Caesaria the chiefe Citie in Cappadocia and in a time of persecution suffred Martyrdom soone after that he had benne married Now most falsly he corrupteth the reporter of the Storie and maketh this Eupsychius a Bishop that it might appeare to the ignorant that one had married a wife after he had benne made a Bishop which would haue serued our married Superintendentes purpose gaily For yet after so many yeres searche they can not bring vs forth so much as one cleare example of the ancient Churche that euer there was any Bishop or Priest married after that degree and holy Order taken With such vncleane conueiance their vncleane treacherie is defended Defence 176. Cassio li. 6. cap. 14. His wordes be these Cassiodorus writeth thus In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they saie Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria died in Martyrdome hauing married a wife a litle before being yet in manner a newe married man Beholde Reader the falshod of this man First contrarie to his custome elswhere he leaueth the Greeke fonteine where this Storie was First written and goeth to the riuer of the olde translation in many places not most exactly answering the Greeke And why did he so Forsooth bicause if he had alleged Sozomenus the Greeke writer his falshod had benne fowly bewraied For he nameth this Eupsychius expressely Eupsychius a laie-man by M. Iewels forgerie made a Bishop to proue the Mariages of Priestes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as much to saie Eupsychius one of the Lordes or one of the Nobilitie of the Citie of Caesaria in Cappadocia Then bicause the Tripartite Storie of Cassiodorus setting foorth hath not so expressely that he was a nobleman of Caesaria M. Iewel was so bolde as to falsifie the place and to putte in of his owne this woorde Episcopum to helpe his matter and so corrupting his authour maketh him to cal him Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria Thus he taketh vpon him to make him a Bishoppe who was a Laie man as wel a Bishoppe as he him selfe is that it might appeare to the vnlearned that a Bisshoppe married a wife after he was Bisshoppe Fol. 302. 318. See what I haue said hereto in this Treatie where I answer his false stuffe touching
great learning vertue and grauitie that al that I haue sent ouer are but toyes and trifles by like bicause I printe not my Bookes in Folio as he dooth that shee is ful of wisedome and I ful of follie There he promiseth in great sooth that he wil not tel me how lewdly I haue demeaned my selfe towardes her And what is that Nay he wil not tel it me ye may beleue him bicause it wil sound to my great shame Yet out it must the man is taken with suche a lust And bicause he was lothe it should come to the knowlege of many thus forthwith he telleth it me in a printed booke I beseeche you saith he ful courteouslie cal your wordes againe to minde if you can without blusshing Handle foisted in by M Ievvel for Blame So roughlie to handle so softe a Creature where he hath changed my honest worde Blame into his owne worde Handle of filthie imagination This Phrase of speache your very frends haue muche misliked and as it is in dede so in plaine wordes they cal it Ruffianrie c. The whole matter thus he concludeth with like truth as he beganne But this fault as I haue said I wil dissemble To al this what shal I saie good Reader God be thanked that M. Iewel who is so desirous to tel that of me whereof I should be ashamed hath nothing to tel but a Lie forged by his owne filthie imagination whereof he must needes be ashamed if he haue any sparke of honest nature in him So roughlie to handle so softe a creature be not my woordes If it be Ruffianrie so to speake as he saieth that in deede it is then is this Superintendent of Sarisburie become a Ruffian For he speaketh so I spake it not Thus roughly to blame so soft◠a creature whether it might not in that place be honestly spoken I reporte me to al that be honest Bicause he knew him selfe he had made this apparent aduantage against me by his false forgerie foisting in the worde Handle in place of the word Blame of purpose that his impudent falshed might not be espied he least out of his Booke xxvij lines of my Confutation where the wordes be with which I reproue the Lady for her false Translation if it were hers and not an others set forth in her name But my very frendes haue muche misliked this Phrase of speache saith M. Iewel I maruell how they could mislike it before it was euer written In deede bothe my frendes and his frendes too mislike this Phrase as he hath forged it very much I doubte not And as for his frendes I dare saie they are ashamed of him and wish he had not discredited his ministerly Diuinitie with suche Ruffianly humanitie or rather inhumanitie For a ful answer hereto see in this Treatie Lib. 3. cap. 2. Fol. 120. As for the Lady that translated the Apologie into English in whose quarrel this vnhonest and vncleane lewdnesse hath by this Champion ben practized I wish her no woorse but that shee tel M. Iewel when shee meeteth with him nexte that though shee were desirours bothe of Praise and also of reuenge yet shee had rather remaine vnpraised and vnrevenged then of suche a false handler to be praised and with such open lying to be revenged Thus Reader by Viewe of these fewe places noted out of the whole heape thou maist conceiue with what manner stuffe M. Iewel hath filled vp that huge Booke Suche as these are after the same rate the more parte of the reste is Wherefore al menne maie see how good cause they haue to hier their Promotours and Waiters to lie in waite for our Bookes at the Portes and Creekes and with great extremitie to pounish al menne who are founde to haue them For by that meane they hope to winne a long time before their guile and falshode be made open to al the worlde Seeing then among al that huge heape so litle can be founde whereby he maie seeme to go directly to the pointes that be in Controuersie and presently treated of seeing where he geueth out certaine shadowes as it were of proufes if the same be duely examined they be tried corrupted and falsified by one vntrue meane or other and seeing the confutation of al that is to be confuted must be made by repeating and laying forth againe the testimonies truly whiche he allegeth falsly by shewing where he clippeth of the Doctours wordes where he addeth wordes of his owne where he leaueth out the beginning or the ende of Sentences where he vseth false translation where he conceeleth and dissembleth the Circumstance of the places and foloweth the bare sounde of wordes without farther view of the Writers intent where he maketh false exchange of wordes as he is now taken in the manner changing Blame a worde of chaste meaning into Handle a worde of vnchaste imagination seing I saie this is the meane and waie whereby the Confutation of the pretensed Defence must be wrought I leaue vnto the iudgement of those who can iudge of these thinges what a long and tedious worke it would be and how litle profite would redounde thereof if I should refute his whole Booke This being wel considered specially whereas also a long time is required to the finishing of suche a worke great charges are to be emploied in printing and menne at these daies soone waxe wearie and feele lothsomnes in reading long Treaties I thought I should doo more cōueniently if I confuted the chiefe pointes of Doctrine then if I bestowed my labour about the confutation of the whole whiche for the most parte consisteth of light and vaine trifles not worth the reading And to saie the truthe what credite is he worthy to beare in the reste that in the chiefe pointes is proued to haue dealte so vntruly If I truly charge M. Iewel with thertie fortie fiftie yea with a hundred great and notorious Lies and sufficiently confute the same shal I not seeme to haue proued him a Lier and a false dealer in these causes excepted I confute him in a thousand eleuen or twelue hundred mo If the case be so then is the aduantage in the multitude of Lies and he is farthest from being confuted who maketh most Lies and specially he that maketh so many as the defender of the truth shal not haue leisure to trie them Lies It is wel knowen how muche easier it is to write Lies then to confute Lies A Lie is vttered in a worde or two the poison of an hainous Heresie is spet forth in a line or two Nor this nor that perhappes can wel and sufficiently be confuted so as it be made plaine vnto the vnlearned in foure or fiue leaues Least I should seeme to saie nothing in his commendation and not to acknowlege his worthiest qualities I graunt he is furnished with Rhetorie with humaine letters with Eloquence with a mearie wit and that he hath a readie grace in skoffing yea that he is hable to
greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
Vicare of Christe aboue Lordes and kinges of this worlde and to see Princes and Emperours promise and sweare obedience vnto him Confut. fol. 178. b Harding That all Kinges and Emperours receiue their whole power at the Popes hande I neuer said it ne wrote it nor that they ought to sweare obedience and Fealtie vnto him These wordes are not to be founde neither in the places whiche you haue coted nor in the whole Confutation els where What and how great obedience Christian Princes owe vnto the Churche and vnto Christes Vicare the chiefe Gouernour of the same this is no place at large to discusse The wordes that you allege I acknowledge to be myne If that whiche there foloweth be ioyned withal the whole circumstance of my discourse declaring what is my meaning considered nothing shal seeme said beside truthe or reason After the wordes before rehersed immediatly thus it foloweth But they Confut 178. b. It is no absurditie the shepherd to be in auctoritie ouer the vvhole flocke Distinct 96. C. duâ— sunt that are the faithful subiectes of the Church of God thinke it no absurditie that the shepherd be set not only aboue the Lambes and Ewes of the Churche but also aboue the Wethers and Rammes them selues It is a very great folie for them to finde faulte with the Superioritie of the Bishop of Rome who can neuer proue that he is not the Vicare of Christe If he were not his Vicare yet being a Bishop he is aboue any temporal Prince concerning his priestly office Lo M. Iewel by these and other my wordes in that place you might haue seene had you not bent your witte maliciously to stirre her Maiestie to hatred against vs what are the thinges and causes in whiche I reporte the Princes and highest estates of the world to stoupe vnto Christes Vicare and to promise him obedience As for Homage and Fealtie suche as Vassalles rendre vnto their temporal Princes in regard of temporal Dominion whereof by sownd of your speache you seeme to meane I spake not one word Is this the charitie of your Gospel M. Iewel by such vntrue meanes to incense the Prince against vs Item there Iewel VVhereas Pope Zacharias by the consent or the conspiracie of the Nobles of France deposed Chilpericus the true natural and liege Prince of that Realme and placed Pipinus in his roume Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes Confesse that this was a diuine power in the Pope for otherwise he could neuer haue donne it Thus muche he esteemeth the dishonours and ouerthrovves of Gods anointed Confut. Fol. 182. a. Harding Nay rather Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes confesse that M. Iewel belieth him and bothe vntruly reporteth his wordes and falsifieth that Storie For truly to speake it was not Pope Zacharie that deposed Childerike Let it be weighed what I saie touching this matter answering to the obiection which the Apologie maketh against the Popes in general These be my wordes Confut. Fol. 181. b. King Childerike of Fraunce deposed and Pipine aduaunced to the croune If the Pope Zacharias deposed Childerike for so I finde him more commonly named the king of Fraunce only vpon his owne pleasure or displeasure as ye saie and placed Pipine for him can ye tel that storie and not see what a strength of auctoritie is in that See which is hable with a worde to place and displace the mightiest king in Europe With a worde I saie for I am sure you can shewe vs of no armie that he sent to execute that his wil. Is that the power of a man trowe ye to appointe Kingdomes Can the Deuil him selfe at his pleasure set vp and depose Kinges No surely And muche lesse can any member of his doo the same Remember ye what Christe said when the Iewes obiected that he did cast out Deuilles Math. 12. in the name of the prince of Deuilles Beware ye sinne not against the holy Ghoste who confesse that the Pope hath pulled downe and set vp Kinges Which thing vndoubtedly he could not doo profitably and peaceably but by the great power of God And yet did that line of Pipine The prosperitie of the line of Pipine and Charles surmounted al other VVhat did Pope zacharias in the deposing of king Childerike and Charles the great whiche the Pope did set vp florish aboue any other stocke that ye can name sence the inclination of the Romaine Empire Whiche in that transposed state of so great a Kingdome maketh no obscure Argument of heauenly approbation and diuine prouidence Neither did the Pope Zacharias depose Childerike bicause he fansied him not as ye sclaunder but only consented to loose his subiectes from bonde of othe made to him at the general and most earnest request and sute of al the Nobilitie and communaltie of the whole realme of Fraunce VVhat manner a maÌ„ Childerike vvas finding him very vnprofitable and vnmeete for the kingdome as one who being of no witte and therefore commonly named Stupidus as muche to saie a dolt was altogethâ—â— besides like a Sardanapalus geuen wholly to belly chere and to filthy loue of women Therefore in your owne wordes ye confesse a diuine power in the Pope as by whom God directeth the willes of faithful princes on the earth The more such examples ye bring the worse ye make your cause I would hier you to ease me of the labour of prouing such a notable facte You that find so great fault with Pope Zacharias for coÌ„senting after a sort to the depositioÌ„ of Childerike a beastly man an vnprofitable and vnworthy King of Fraunce why do ye allow cherish and coÌ„mend so much Christofer Goodman and Iohn Knoxe with their felowes and helpers that were together at Geneua for writing intising and doing what in their power did lye to depose the noble and lawful Quenes of England and Scotland and with the Blastes of their traiterous Trompettes to remoue them from the right of their Crownes and roial estates Saith not Goodman that Wiat did his duetie in taking Armes against Queene Marie and that al such were Traitours as deceiued him and tooke not his parte If al be rightly constrewed the Quenes Maiestie of England now being I suppose hath no great cause GoodmaÌ„s bookes named the first and secoÌ„d blaste against the monstrous regimeÌ„t of vvomen Item an other hovv to obey or disobey VVith other the like fierbraÌ„des of knoxe aÌ„d Gilbie GoodmaÌ„ in the Treatie hovv to obeie or disobeie pag. 204. either to commende them for such seditious Blastes or to like wel of you and your companions for geuing eare winde and fauour to the blowing of the same If Goodman had ben Pope of Rome as Knoxe they saie taketh vpon him to be Pope of Scotland ô Lorde what Counterblastes would ye and your good fellow Trompeters eâ— this haue blowen vp against him Long er this tâ—e whole world should haue rong of it and the Pulpites whiche ye vse as your
custome of falsifying al that he taketh in hande euen here also he playeth that parte as kindely as any where elles For although some suche wordes or the like be in deede founde in my writinges against him yet they beare not suche an owgly and lothsom visard as he putteth on them As for example whereas sometimes for good cause I can not finde in my harte to cal these mennes rash Innouation of the auncient religion their wicked abrogation of certaine Sacramentes their vile prophanation of the reste their horrible contempte of the body and bloude of Christe in the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter whereas I say I can not finde in my harte to cal these thinges Godly procedinges restoring of the Gospel the sincere Worde the right Ministration of the Lordes Supper as they would al men to cal them but contrarywise Deuilish spite wickednes and villanie to cause the mater to seme more odious he reporteth my wordes thus your Deuilish spite your Deuilish wickednes your Deuilish villanie c as thoughe I had spoken them to him and to his felowes specially whereas for the more part suche wordes are spoken not in the second but in the third person of the Heretikes of our time indefinitely and in general Whiche neuerthelesse if I had spoken vnto him and them directly it had ben no greeuous sinne their desert considered For therein had I folowed the counsel whiche S. Antonie that blessed man gaue vnto his Scholers a litle before he departed this life To whom he said thus as S. Athanasius who wrote his life reporteth Athanas in vita Antonij Haereticorum venena vitate meumque erga eos odium sectamini Scitis quòd nullus mihi pacificus sermo cum eis fuerit Auoide the poisons of Heretiques and folow the hatred that I haue borne them Ye know that I had neuer any peaseable talke with them How so euer it be it had benne M. Iewels parte to haue vsed more truth in his writing But why did he not set forth my whole sayinges where suche wordes be placed What reason is it a man to burthen his Aduersarie with certaine wordes only and with silence to dissemble his entiere sentences By what laudable example hath he done thus Whiche of the olde Fathers euer did so If no man euer did it before these daies then so farre as the Catholique Church hath not erred in Faith and hath no neede now to receiue a new Gospel of Luther Zuinglius or Caluine by this practise he sheweth him selfe aswel a folower of the inuentours of new malice as a mainteiner of new Heresies Brentius the first author of this new deuise of laying the Aduersaries sharpe wordes together in one heape practized by M. Iewel This deuise of laying together in a heape al the sharpe wordes with whiche one feeleth him selfe prickte culled out of the aduersaries wriâ—â—nges is very strange and new and before this age whiche bringeth forth many rare nouelties was neuer vsed of any learned man In our time it is begonne and for ought I know first practized by Brentius who in the beginning of his booke against Bullinger entituled Recognitio propheticae Apostolicae doctrinae c written in defence of his newe doctrine of Vbiquitie laieth together in a heape al the wordes that Bullinger had vttered in his booke against him whiche might seeme sharpe rough and vngentle so softely must these menne now be handled after that they haue spent al their intemperate railing vpon the Pope the Papistes the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter the daily Sacrifice the other Sacramentes and the godly Ceremonies of holy Churche Wherefore M. Iewel is not like to haue the glorie of this new deuise he must be content to yeelde it vnto Iohn Brentius whose ape and folower he is in this as in many other pointes worthy of smal praise Now if Bullinger the grande Captaine of the Sacramentaries of which secte M. Iewel is a professed mainteiner thought it not vnseemely for the grauitie of his Ministership to be so plaine with Brentius as to put him in minde sometimes of his deserued titles by saying he was Rixator Spiritus inflatus CaluÌ„niator c. a Branler In RespoÌ„sione BreÌ„tij ad primam partem Bullingeri pag. 8. 9. a pufte Sprite a spiteful speaker a skoffer a mocker a Hickescorner a peruerter a lyer vncleane impudeÌ„t a babler a brabler a craker a thrower of Christ out of his heauenly seate madde light childish a iangler a reuiler a sclaunderous person an Eutychian a Sophiste a railer woorse then Swenckefeldius him selfe Againe if he thought it not discommendable in him selfe being the chiefe Superintendent of Zurich to cal BreÌ„tius booke writen in defence of that new heresie Brentianas nebulas figmenta c. The mistes and deuises of Brentius Head vaine and peeuish â—oies knauish folies a doctrine dissoluing the hope of the faithfulles assured saluation in heauen a madnesse a phantasie Sophistrie crafty fetches most false deuises a feeble write Sophismes guiles a booke of Riddles a fabulous monstre a Sophistical Egypte stincking trifles prodigious Vbiquitie frantique wordes c If Bullinger I saie one of your noblest Worthies thought it not vnseemely for his degree and state to vse suche bitter eloquence and order of speach in reprouing Brentius and was neuer and it is like should neuer haue benne reproued for it among them of your owne Sacramentarie Secte M. Iewel why are you so heauy a Maister to me whom you esteeme muche lesse then Henrie Bullinger the Successour of your great Patriarke Zuinglius in the Chaier of your doctrine at Zurich as to blame that in me whiche you could not finde in your harte to disallow in Bullinger Wel how so euer in please you fauorably to iudge of your owne great Maisters and laye lode of reproches vpon me yet this muche you maie cal to your consideration Wordes considered alone without composition sounde good or euil according to their signification and al manner of wordes may be vsed without blame Of the sentences and whole sayinges onely where the circumstance may be considered and weighed faire or fowle speache is conceiued Now if thou wilt take the paines Reader to turne to the places of my bookes whence M. Iewel hath piked out those wordes for vse of whiche he reproueth me as a man of vncourteous vtterance thou shalt right wel perceiue in case heresie haue not vtterly bewitched thyne vnderstanding and bereued thee of al iudgement the verdure of my speache to be suche as may seme conuenient for a vessel of the holy Ghoste to taste of It may please M. Iewel to consider that by degree of Schoole and by lawful calling otherwise I stand in the place of teachers And therefore though at this present the Pulpite be denyed me yet I find not my selfe wholly so discharged of the office of teaching Now hauing no other conuenient meane to teache but by writing what ought I at this tyme to write
Iohn is said to haue erred was onely touching the soules of the iuste and perfit who were fully purged before their departure hence in quibus nihil erat purgabile cuÌ„ de hoc seculo decesserunt as it is shewed in Pope Benedictus Decretale before mencioned or were purged elswhere Defence pag. 617. after the separation from their bodies So that by this Purgatorie is not taken awaie at al as your skoffing tale that liketh you so wel pretendeth it to be Neither were the Heretiques that of S. Augustine are called Arabici the first Authours of this errour as you saie but the Armenians and Grecians if we maie beleeue Guido M. Iew. Vntruly attributeth that to Pope Iohn 22. whiche was written of Iohn 23. Now touching that you haue alleged out of the Councel of Constance in Appendite as you cal it I maruel with what face ye bring it in And what a great falshed is it to put in your booke the name of Pope Iohn the. 22. for Iohn the. 23. who was not borne within a hundred yeres after Iohn the. 22. The name of this Iohn the 23. was before he tooke vpon him to be Pope Balthazar de Cossa as there ye haue it declared Neither was it certaine that he helde that detestable opinion touching the Death of the body and Soule together it was but brought into the Councel of Constance in a bille of complainte conteining many other heinous Articles against him whiche were not proued It was a matter of Diffamation it was not of probation as by the bill it selfe it is expressed For there ye finde these wordes In Appendice Concilij Constantien The said Iohn the. 23. was of these thinges diffamed greuously before the clergie and the people Therefore it is thus said there of his Acousers Denunciant dicunt ponunt si necesse erit probare intendunt c. They denounce saie and put and if it shal be necessarie they intende to proue They that accuse and intende to proue if neede be haue not yet proued And God forbid al thinges shoulde be taken as true whereof some be accused How so euer it be Iohn the. 23. is not Iohn the. 22. no more then Iohn Iewel is Iohn Capon Neither was that three and twentith Iohn a true Pope lawfully elect but an vsurper as two others were with him at the same time whiche were deposed al three at the Councel of Constance and a newe Pope chosen So by this place ye haue prooued no heresie against Pope Iohn the. 22. nor against any true Pope at al but onely haue shewed your selfe a shamelesse shifter and one that hath a more malicious minde to hurte the authoritie of the Pope then matter of iuste accusation against him M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 6. Diuis 1. The Canonistes say the Pope can doe asmuche The. 7. Vntruth as Christe himselfe can doe To this I said it is false and sclaunderous M. Iewel replieth These wordes be most manifest and out of al question Extrà de translatione Episcopi Quanto Hostien Excepto peccato Papa potest quicquid Deus ipse potest Excepte sinne the Pope can doo asmuche as God him selfe can doo This is a most manifest and out of al question to vse this mannes owne wordes a foule corruption Certainely Hostiensis saith not so But bicause the Pope is the Vicare of Christe in earth and God ratifieth what so euer he doth in binding or loosing so it be donne duely and rightly Claue non errante as the Canonistes speake hauing reckened certaine thinges wherein the Popâ— hath authoritie as vnder God and as Christes high officer he concludeth with these wordes Breuiter exceptâ— peccatâ— Ibidem quasi omnia de iure potest vt Deus Briefly excepte sinne he hath power as a man would say in al thinges of right as God Thus saith Hostiensis and not as M. Iewel belieth him And this saying being rightly vnderstanded is a true saying What soeuer the Pope doth or God doth by the Pope that is aboue the power and authoritie of man the same is he said to doo not as man but vt Deus as God bicause he doth it as being the Vicare of Christe as bearing the steede of God And therfore it is said by the learned Canonistes wherewith also M. Iewel beside learning Cap. Romana 1. respon de Appell 6. HostieÌ„sis fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv or reason findeth fault that the Consistorie of God and the Pope is one Consistorie as a Bishops and his Chancellours CoÌ„sistorie is one and the same CoÌ„sistorie Now let vs consider the impudencie of this false Minister First he auoucheth his shamelesse lye boldly as though where truth faileth for shew of proufe the matter might be stowted out The wordes saith he be most manifest and out of al questioÌ„ Excepto peccato Papa potest quicquid Deus ipse potest That is to say the Pope can do as much as Christ him self can do But what if these wordes be not most manifest Is it not then a most manifest impudencie so to affirme of them What if they be not out of al doubte Is it not then out of al doubte that this Minister is a Minister of lyes Certainely the wordes of Hostiensis be those very precise wordes which here I haue alleged and no other See then good Reader this mannes truthe whereof he so muche craketh First Hovv many vntrue partes M. Ievvel plaieth at once he corrupteth the sentence by leauing out sundry the Doctours wordes and telleth his tale for him in such wise as he may finde occasion to carpe him For he hath nipte away first this worde Breuiter which admonisheth the redaer to haue recourse to that goeth before then this worde Quasi which being added by good discretion mitigateth and qualifieth the saying that otherwise perhaps might seeme ouer vehement then againe those other wordes of necessarie importance otÌ„a de iure and vt Next he corrupteth the sentence by putting too of his owne those wordes besides Papa for which I greatly blame him not quicquid and Ipse and that by way of emphasie that the whole might seme the more absurd Besides al this he inuerteth the whole sentence and maketh of Hostiensis true and reasonable saying a blasphemous and â—onde saying of his owne whereof that great learned man did neuer so muche as dreame And who woulde thincke that any man hauing his right witte woulde speake so vainely and so farre biyonde al sufferance of Christian eares that the Pope can doo as muche as God him selfe can doo And yet must al this be faced out and M. Iewel must haue leaue to saie it is most manifeste it is out of al question Who euer saw one litle poore sentence so nipte so hackte so hewed and mangled so turned and caste in a new molde And bicause it liked him wel that is to saie bicause it should mislike al good menne he hath made great stoare of
reason stand in doubt so it be without pertinacie as that for these be his examples Thobie had a dog or that Aaron had a bearde or that the Arke of the Testament had a couering of Goates heare Further there he procedeth and sheweth the same by the example of a Canoniste exercised in the determinations of holy Churche and an other man hauing thereof no skil nor knowledge likewise of a man skilled in Logique Philosophie and other humaine science and an other man vtterly ignorant and vnlearned The vvhole and true sentence of Gerson vvhiche M. Ievv falsifieth To come vnto the wordes which you haue fowly falsified thus he concludeth Denique sequitur ex his omnibus quòd iudicium conclusiones fidei licet auctoritatinè spectâ—nt ad Praelatos Doctores spectare tamen potest ad alios quà m Theologos deliberatio sicut cognitio super ijs quae fidem respiciunt ita etiam vt ad laicos hoc posset extendi plus aliquando quà m ad multos clericorum Finally of al these foresaid thinges it foloweth that although the Iudgement and Conclusions of faithe belong vnto the Prelates and Doctours by waie of auctoritie yet deliberation or consultation maie belong vnto others beside the Diuines as also examination and trial of those thinges that concerne the faith yea and that so as this thing might be extended vnto laie menne and more vnto them sometimes then to many of the Clerkes Now Reader if thou marke wel and consider Gerson speaketh not at al of geuing sentence definitiue in Councel thou maist see how M. Iewel deceiueth thee Gerson in this place speaketh not at al of the auctoritie of geuing sentence Definitiue in general Councels whereof our controuersie is Beholde therefore with what conscience this man handleth these matters First he falsifieth Gerson making him to speake expressely of Sentence Definitiue to be geuen in a Councel This priuilege of geuing Sentence in Councel saith he c. Then he vttereth Gersons wordes otherwise then Gerson doth Againe Gerson there speaketh of three thinges Of Iudgement to be geuen and Conclusions to be made of the Faith by waie of Auctoritie in general Of Deliberation and Cognition touching matters perteining to the Faith The first he saith belongeth vnto the Prelates and Doctours or Professours of Diuinitie only the seconde and the thirde not onely vnto the Diuines but also vnto others and saith he sometime that is in some cases it may be extended vnto laie personnes And this we holde wel withal For euen at this present we wish that the discrete and wise men of the Laitie would better deliberate of pointes of the Catholique faith then hitherto some haue done and that they would examine and trie your allegations and ours together by conference of the Bookes whence they be taken out that they maie be hable to iudge whether parte vseth more truth and vpright dealing If they would thus doo as perhappes some few of a great number doo they should soone see iust cause to condemne you and vtterly to geue you ouer Iewel Pag. 48. The. 14. Chapt. Verely M. Harding vve neuer said Luther and Zuinglius vvere the first publisshers of the Gospel Harding Proued by their owne wordes that Luther was the first publissher of the Gospel A great Vntruthe M Ievv denieth here tâ—at he saith othervvheres In this your Defence touching Luther you saie no lesse Pag. 17. thus Doctor Luther beganne to publishe the Gospel of Christe If he that beginneth to publish be the first publisher then you said that Luther was the first publisher If there be any difference betwen these two termes then haue you wel defended your selfe If there be none as al that vnderstand English maie easily see there is none then you haue proued your selfe giltie of a great vntruthe In the Apologie preteÌ„ded to be traÌ„slated by the Lady A. B But I must rather put you in remembrance of your owne wordes vttered in the Apologie Who called the first sedicious and heretical preaching of Martin Luther and Hulderike Zuinglius Herbam Euangelij the first spring of the Gospel or the very first appearing of the Gospel as your Ladie Interpreter termeth it Againe who saith that forty yeres agone and vpwarde that is at the first setting forth of Luther and Zuinglius the truth was vnknoweÌ„ and vnhard of and that they first came to the knowledge and preaching of the Gospel Be not these the wordes of your owne Apologie Be they not set forth in diuers bokes of diuers printes And wil ye now tel the worlde and beare vs also in hand who be wel acquainted with your false dealinges that ye neuer said so What can any man vnderstande by the first spring or first appearing of the Gospel but the beginning of the Gospel If the Gospel beganne with Luther and Zuinglius how was it before If before their time the Gospel was vnknowen and vnhearde of for so the Apologie saith then where was there any truth at al If it were not knowen nor hearde of at al where was it in al the earth Or imagine ye that it maie lie hid in some secrete place without and beside the harte minde and spirite of man And if as you saie Luther and Zuinglius came first to the preaching of the Gospel how were they not the first preachers of the Gospel If they were the first preachers how were they not also the first publishers of the Gospel Thus you saie and vnsaie Yea and Nay is one with you And a Gods name al must be defended be it yea be it nay be it true be it false But thus it is cleare that your worde is not the Gospel And God be praised that we haue driuen you to eate your owne worde Iewel Pag. 48. Of Abailard and Almarike and certaine other your strange names he meaneth Apostoliques Peterbrusians VValdenses Albigenses and Imagebreakers vve haue no skil They are none of ours Harding That these Heretiques be of M. Iewelles side The 15. Chapt. I am glad M. Iewel to heare you so absolutely to renouÌ„ce these wicked heretiques at lest in wordes Would God ye would as freely forsake their Heresies in your doinges Alphonsus de Castro lib 9. Bernard Lutzeburg Almarik the heretique First as touching Petrus Abailardus he denied the free wil of man Doo not your great Maisters Wiclef Luther Zuinglius Peter Martyr and Caluine the same If these be yours how is not Abailard also yours Almarik the Frenchman taught of Images of Aulters of Inuocation of Saintes and of Transubstantiation as you doo condemning the Church of Idololatrie in al these pointes as you doo Of this Almarik then haue you no skil Is he not thus farre yours What are you become an other man Bernardus Serm. 66. super Cantica VValdeÌ„ses AEneas Slyuius Bohem. Histor cap. 35. then menne take you to be The Apostolikes denied Purgatorie as you doo The Waldenses in many pointes agree iumpe
yours as the Arians had the names of that of Ariminum and certaine other Councelles holden by the Arians Your heresies God be praised haue not yet prospered so much that ye might haue hundreds of Bishoppes to assemble and determine on your side as the Arians had Therefore againe your case is very vnlike and your example of S. Augustine and the Arian very vneuen When you haue Councelles on your fitlâ— that shal make for the proufe of your Doctrine and for condemnation of our Doctrine then maye this place of S. Augustine seeme to serue your purpose Last of al your accustomed legierdemaine in citing this place openeth your falshood For in the sentence immediatly going before the wordes by you alleged S. Augustine professeth plainely the authoritie of the Nicene Councel to haue ben sufficient for conuincing of the Arian heretike Thus he saith Hoc est illud Homusion Lib. 3. ca. 14. contra MaximinuÌ„ ArianuÌ„ quod in Concilio Niceno aduersus haereticos Arianos à Catholicis patribus veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum est This is that Doctrine concerning Homusion whiche in the Councel of Nice was confirmed against the Arian heretiques with the Authoritie of Truthe and with the Truthe of Authoritie S. Augugustine falsly alleged by M. Ievv vvordes of chiefe importaÌ„ce quite lefte out Sed nunc Streight after it foloweth Sed nunc nec ega c. But now at this present neither wil I laye against thee c. as before you alleged it These wordes Sed nunc But nowe whiche importe the doing of S. Augustine to haue ben but for that present time and occasion and doo shewe that he meant not generally to renounce the Nicene Councel those wordes I saie M. Iewel you quite leafte out alleging S. Augustines wordes in such sorte as if he had peremptorily and precisely protested that the Arian had ben no more bounde to the Authoritie of the Nicene Councel then he him selfe was bounde to the Councel of Ariminum Whereas both before he plainely protested that the Catholike Fathers of the Nicene Councel had determined against the Arian heretiques veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate By authoritie of Truth and by truthe of Authoritie and also in this later saying restrained him selfe only to the time present for cause beforâ— mencioned O how would that blessed Father be agreeued if now he were a liue and sawe his sayinges so peruersly wrested to a sense by him neuer meant nor intended and that drawen to mainetenance of heresie wherein he relented for better meanes to be had towardes the Confutation of heresie In what credite and estimation S. Augustine had General Councelles The 20. Chapt. Howbeit this blessed Father touching the credite and authoritie of lawful Councelles not only in this present place as it now appeareth but also in others of his workes hath written so circumspectly and warely that excepte heretiques were of very purpose and mere wilfulnesse sette to peruerte the truthe they coulde neuer haue piked out of his sayinges so muche as any colour of aduantage to the preiudice of Councelles Contrarywise to the aduauncement of their credite and estimation he writeth in sundry places Verely to the Donatistes being confuted and conuinced by a great Assemblie of the Aphrican Bishoppes August epist 152. Ad populuÌ„ factionis Donatiaâ—a he saith Nulla excusatio iam remansit Nimium dura nimium diabolica sunt hominum corda quae adhuc tantae manifestationi veritatis obsistunt There remaineth now no excuse The hartes of menne are too too harde and too too deuilish whiche doo yet withstande the truth so clearely opened vnto them How much better may we saie this vnto you and your companions M. Iewel whose heresies haue ben detected and learnedly confuted in the late General Councel of Trent vnto the whiche out of al Catholique Countries of Christendome Bishopes and the best learned menne were assembled Againe disputing against the errour of S. Cyprian touching the rebaptizing of such as heretiques had baptized in the ende he concludeth with the Authoritie of a General Councel and protesteth that he him selfe would not haue ben so bolde as in such sorte to confute that holy Fathers opinion excepte he had had the General Councel on his side These are his wordes August de Baptismo coÌ„tra Donatist li. 2. cap. 4. Nec nos ipsi tale aliquid auderemus asserere nisi vniuersae Ecclesiae concordissima authoritate firmati cui ipse sine dubio cederet si iam illo tempore quaestionis huius veritas eliquata declarata per plenarium ConciliuÌ„ solidaretur Neither should we be so bolde as to affirme so much but that we are assuredly vpholden with the authoritie of the most vniforme consent of the vniuersal Church To the which S. Cyprian him selfe would vndoubtedly haue yeelded if at that time the truth of this question being boulted out and made cleare had benne by a ful general Councel established In like manner he vrgeth the Pelagians saying August CoÌ„tra Iulianum .li. 3. cap. 1. Vestra verò apud competens Iudicium communiuÌ„ episcoporum causa modò finita est Nec amplius vobiscuÌ„ agenduÌ„ est quantuÌ„ ad ius examinis pertinet nisi vt prolataÌ„ de hac re sententiaÌ„ cuÌ„ pace sequamini Quòd si nolueritis a turbulenta vel seditiosa inquietudine cohibeamini Your matter is now ended by sufficient iudgemeÌ„t of Bishops from al partes Neither ought we now to haue further dealing with you as touching right of examination to be made but now it behoueth that yâ— folowe peacebly the verdite whiche hath 〈◊〉 pronounced of this matter And if ye wil not yet that ye be restrained from al troblesome and seditious disorder August Epist 118. ad Ianuarium Last of al speaking of General Councelles he saith Quorum est in Ecclesia saluberrima authoritas their Authoritie in the Churche is most holsome And bicause M. Iewel findeth him selfe agreeued witâ— the later Councelles and is offended with the newnesse of them and claimeth by former Councels and preteÌ„deth to folow the Apostles owne Traditions let vs see what S. Augustine of whom he would so faine borow helpe if it would be wil saie for him Whereas the Donatistes for their rebaptizing of such as the Catholiques had baptized alleged th' Apostles Tradition and neglected a late General CouÌ„cel assembled against their opinion holding vpon a more auncient Tradition euen such as came from the Apostles to them in this case S. Augustine saith thus Nec quisquam dicat August li. 4. cap. 7. de Baptis coÌ„tra Donatistas quod accepimus ab Apostolis hoc sequimur Quatò robustiuo nuÌ„c dicimus Quod ecclesiae coÌ„suetudo semper tenuit quod haec disputatio dissuadere noÌ„ potuit et quod plenariuÌ„ Concilium coÌ„firmauit hoc sequimur Neither let any man saie as the Donatistes said and as Protestantes now saie we folowe that which we haue
receiued of the Apostles Howe muche more stronger is that we saie now we folowe that which the Custome of the Church hath euermore holden whiche al this reasoning to and fro hath not ben able to plucke out of mens hartes and last of al which a ful General Councel hath confirmed So highly esteemed S. Augustine those things August li. 2. de Baptisme cap. 9. which M. Iewel of al other maketh lest accompt of And againe he saieth Concilia posteriora prioribus apud posterâ—s praepâ—nuntur Later CouÌ„cels preferred before the former for what cause The posteritie preferreth the Later Councelles before the Former Not as though the later should be contrarie to the former but bicause in the later CouÌ„cels the Church is alwaies better instructed through the contradictions of heretikes by occasion whereof matters are more exactely searched discussed and more clearely opened Like as the flint stoanes being knokte harde together fier flieth out and corne the more ye fifte it the purer it is tried so truthe by our aduersaries Contradictions is beaten out and doubteful pointes by long discussion and search are made plaine and cleare Therefore againe he saith Ibidem .li. 2. cap. 3. Ipsa plenaria Concilia saepe priora posterioribus emendantur cúm aliquo experimento rerum aperitur quod clausum erat cognoscitur quod latebat The very former general Councells are oftentimes corrected by the later Councells when as by some trial of maâ—â—er that thing is opened whiche before was close shut vp and that is knowen whiche before laie hid Yeâ— and this is the chiefe and best fruite The benefit and fruite of heresies August in Psal 54. super versum Diuisi sunt prae ira c. that heresies bring vnto the Churche as the same S. Augustine otherwhere declareth where he saith The matter of the blessed Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil the Arianâ— barked against it The Sacrament of Penaunce was neuer throughly handled vntil the Nouatians beganne to withstande it Neither the cause of Baptisme was wel discussed vntil the rebaptizing Donatistes arose and troubled the Churche Thus M. Iewel if you geue eare vnto S. Augustine whose example you seeme to claime by you shal learne of him not to refuse and renounce the authoritie of General Councels but to obey them and to yeeld dew reuerence vnto them yea though they be later and as you cal them new Truth draue M. Iewel to iustifie al our Doctrine wherein he dissenteth from vs. The 21. Chap. This oddes therefore remaineth betwen you and vs that our doctrine yea euery pointe thereof in cotrouersie now is by your owne confession approued by the later General Councelles and so we defende no doctrine of our owne nor mainteine any prophane Nouelties of our owne deuise but we folowe Saluberrimam authoritatem the most holesome and sounde authoritie as S. Augustine termeth it of General Councels that is to saie we folowe the voice of the whole bodie of Christes Churche most truely represented in Councelles the voice of Christes spouse yea the voice of Christe him selfe speaking to vs by his Churche and so speaking that he willeth him whiche heareth not the Churche to be accompted for a Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publicane Contrariewise your Doctrine M. Iewel is not only not authorized in General Councelles but also is clearely condemned by the same as for example that one maie serue in steede of many the General Councel of Laterane condemneth your Sacramentarie heresie Yet we thanke not you but the truthe that you haue this muche confessed for vs. And as S. Augustine said of the Donatistes so we saie most truely of you Vt illa omnia vel loquendo vel legendo pro causa nostra promerent atque propalarent Aug. contra Donatist post collat ca. 34. veritas eos torsit non charitas inuitauit That the Donatistes shoulde vtter and bring forthe either by talke or by allegation out of a booke al those thinges for behoofe of our matter the truth forced them it was not any charitie that inuited them The truthe I saie M. Iewel not any loue you beare to our cause forced you to confesse that there is none of our errours so you terme sundry weightie pointes of the Catholike Faith that by some of the late Councelles hath not benne confirmed We take that you geue vs right gladly in asmuch as it declareth you to be conuinced by witnesse of your owne mouthe For if the pointes of Faith and Religion wherein ye dissent from vs be approued and confirmed by authoritie of the Churche in General Councelles who seeth not what a good staffe we haue to leane vnto And who is that Christian man whiche wil not humbly beleue the same The Thirde Booke conteineth a Detection of certaine Lies Cauilles Sclaunders c. vttered by M. Iewel in the second parte of his pretensed Defence Iewel Pag. 88. VVhere ye fantasie that the Bodie of Christe in the Sacramente hath in it selfe neither Fourme nor Proportion nor Limitation of place nor Distinction of partes S. Augustine telleth you Spatia locorum tolle c. Take awaie from Bodies Limitation of place and the Bodies wil be no where Augu. ad DardanuÌ„ epist 57. And bicause they be nowhere they wil be nothing Take awaie from Bodies the qualities of Bodies there wil be no place for them to be in and therefore the same Bodies muste needes be no Bodies at al. Hereof vve maie conclude that the Bodie of Christe vvhich you haue imagined to be contiened grosly and carnally in the Sacrament for as much as by your ovvne confession it hath neither Qualitie nor Quantitie nor Fourme nor place nor proportiâ—â— of Bodie therefore by S. Augustines doctrine it is no Bodie Harding Answer to the Obiection made out of S. Augustine to Dardanus against the real presence of Christes Bodie in the Blessed Sacrament The. 1. Chapt. THE great confidence you haue in S. Augustines two sayinges in his 57. Epistle to Dardanus may much better serue your turne to skirmish with Brentius a Master of youres Brentius the autor of the heresie of the Vbi quetaries and a graund Captaine emong the Lutherans who spareth not by publique write to teache the world that Christes Humanitie is euerie where as his Diuinitie is then against the Catholique doctrine of Christes Bodily presence in the Blessed Sacrament wherein no suche errour is allowed that Christes humanitie should be euery where with his Godhead but it is auouched that Christe by his omnipotent power doth make his Bodie present in as many places as the Blessed Sacrament is duely Natural qualities suspeÌ„ded from Bodies by Goddes special povver Exod. 3. Daniel 3. Exod. 14. and rightly consecrated You are not ignorant M. Iewel but that you know that God by his special power hath suspended from diuers sortes of Bodies sundrie natural Qualities as he did suspende the action of burning from the Fire as wel in the
so it be imagined to be planted in stockes stones trees grasse rootes fire water earth aier and brute beastes If not in multitude of personnes why is it said dominabitur à mari ad mare Psal 71. à flumine vsque ad terminos orbis terrarum he shal beare rule from sea to sea and from the riuer to the vttermost coastes of the world If not in multitude of persons what meant God the Father to say vnto Christ his Sonne Psal 2. as Dauid prophecied Aske of me and I wil geue vnto thee the Nations for thine inheritance and the endes of the earth for thy possession If not in multitude of personnes Apologie why triumphe ye so in your Apologie bicause al the worlde doth nowe beginne as you saie to beholde the light of your Gospel mightily spred abroade If not in multitude of personnes why is it said to Abraham Gen. 22. in semine tuo benedicentur omnes gentes in thy seede al nations shal be blessed Why is it said to the Apostles Math. vlt. euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine patris filij Spiritus sancti Goo ye and teache ye al nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghoste Why sayd Christe to his Apostles Act. 1. Eritis mihi testes in Hierusalem in omni Iudaea Samaria vsque ad vltimum terrae Ye shal beare witnesse of me in Hierusalem and in al Iewrie and in Samaria and vnto the vttermost partes of the worlde Knowe you not M. Iewel This opinion of M. Ievvel tendeth to the heresie of the Donatistes that S. Augustine allegeth al these and many mo such places against the Donatistes And what meane you After al these Heresies of our wretched time shal we haue also a Donatiste of you Menne marueile much why you are so contrarie to your selfe and that you lacke the discretion to discerne what maketh with you and what maketh against you What discretion was that to bring in S. Augustines authoritie that saith the Churche is called Catholique bicause it is spred throughout the whole worlde to prooue that the Catholique Churche standeth not in multitude of personnes Can the Churche be spred abrode into euery parte of the worlde without multitude of personnes Pag. 94. Or wil ye the two personnes you talke of out of Fortalitium Fidei M. Ievvel saieth the Catholique Churche standeth in the vveight of Truth and as for personnes it may stand in tvvo should bodily replenish euery quarter of the worlde and contrarie to your selfe graunt that one body may be in diuerse places at one time Or wil you the Weight of Truthe wherein the Catholique Churche standeth as you saie to wander rounde aboute the worlde tanquam accidens sine subiecto Or meane you by your two personnes out of Fortalitium alleged to appointe the Churche to be onely not as the Donatistes did in Aprica alone excluding al the quarters of the worlde besides whiche is more tolerable but in some two personnes as for example your selfe perhappes and M. Grindal or Frier Whitehed or Frier Couerdal or some one or other of the Puritanes and that al the rest of the Realme are no members of your Catholique Churche Or meane you in the excluding of the multitude of personnes to leaue your selfe some refuge if it happen your number to decay to the inuisible Churche as ye were wont to doo being driuen into any narrowe streightes by drifte of reason where menne shal haue as muche comforte of preaching of the Sacramentes and of good examples as the hungrie man hath comforte in his great hunger if it be his fortune to finde a stone Consider wel of your folie M. Iewel in the allegation of S. Augustine and weigh with your iudgement how contrary he is to your doctrine Aug. li. de Genes ad literaÌ„ imperfect cap. 1. He saith that the Catholique Churche is vniuersally perfited and halteth in nothing Meaning thereby that the Churche can not erre ne can not be deceiued This speaketh he expressely of the Churche that is spred throughout the whole worlde that is to say of the visible Churche Your doctrine is that the visible Churche doth erre hath erred and may erre as wel in Doctrine as in manners Thus you see your lucke is very il in the allegation of Fathers in that you beare vs in hande they make with you when they make fully against you Ibidem The truthe say you be it in many or in fewe is euer Catholique And what if it were in none at al Were it not also Catholique If no then the substance of truthe as it is truthe muste needes depende vppon some person and to haue the same called Catholique Lirinensis and S. Augustine telleth you that it must be euery where euermore and of al sortes of menne be beleeued If yea then haue ye once found out a Catholike truthe and a Catholique Churche planted not onely in a fewe personnes but in no personnes at al. The case that Fortalitium Fidei setteth out by waie of supposition which you allege though vntruly as your custom is for his wordes are not duo homines but duo veri fideles hath taken place in Adam and Eue Also in Noe and his smal familie But take the worlde as it is now ful of people I aske you whether it be agreable with Scripture to saie that the Catholique Church consisteth onely and alone in any two personnes as for exemple in M. Iewel if you wil and Sir Iames Proctor your worthy Chauncellour or in any two others But how saie you wil not the Prophete Dauid be founde altogether contrarie and put you in minde of the verse Postula à me Psal 2. dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam possessionem tuam terminos terrae Aske of me saith the Prophete in the person of God the Father speaking of the dilatation of Châ—istes Churche and I wil geue thee the Gentiles for thine inheritance and thy possession the vttermost Coastes of the worlde Can you M. Iewel make that narrow and smal to serue your turne which the whole Scripture openly auoucheth to be great and large Whereas you defende Luthers dogge eloquence by the great zeale he had of Goddes glorie and of his holy Temple Luthers eloqueÌ„ce defended by M. Ievvel eadem Pag. 94. Matthaeus Iudex after that you haue once read ouer Matthaeus Iudex a Lutheran and seene how Luther raileth at Oecolampadius and Zuinglius your graund Captaines yea the patriarkes of your progenie and considered by what names he calleth them saying they are as euil as the Deuil him selfe it is likely you wil repente that you euer became his aduocate who so roughly handleth them that are the founders of your owne Synagog In the very nexte line before you allege my wordeâ— with the vehemencie of whiche you doo greatly dislike your selfe in
the reprehension of my vehement speache doo fal into the selfe same Vehemencie Whose wordes are these M. Iewel M. Ievv blameth my vehemencie of speache him selfe being also no lesse vehement Pag. 94. Beholde your owne wordes so many so vaine so bitter so firie so furious al together in one place Are not these your owne wordes Are not these as vehemeÌ„t as you could deuise Wil you finde faulte with me for that you vse your selfe If vehement speache be to be vsed when the matter requireth why blame you me If not why doo you so often vse it Whether you and Luther doo vse it iustly for the zeale of Goddes glorie aske that of them that wrote the Confession of the Churche of Zurich Your owne frendes the Ministers of that congregation doo set forth Luther for his outragious and filthy railing against them in his colours and speake of him as of a very vile felow and paie him home againe with as good as he brought Reade the booke and ye shal finde it to be true Howbeit I could sende you to many other bookes of your brethren fraught with muche more vile stuffe of railing then that litle booke conteineth with al whiche you are better acquainted then I am The Confutation of the Apologie The seconde parte the 2. Chapter Confut fo 44. b Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe aâ— other waie bicause Christe is head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie Menne be called heades in as muche as they be in steede of Christ and vnder Christ after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians for if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it 2. Cor. 2. for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe And in an other place 2. Cor. 5. We are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in few 〈◊〉 vvhat sense Christe is named the Head of the Churche and in vvhat sense the Pope is so named according to inwarde influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is the head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christ and in steede of Christ is head of the same Iewel Pag. 94. To the matter ye saie that touching the influence of grace Christe onely is the head of the Churche but touching direction and gouernemeÌ„t the Pope only as the head Al this is but your ovvne tale M. Harding ye speake it onely of your selfe other authoritie of Scripture or Doctour you bringe vs none Harding Dogge eloquence proued no vnwoonted terme and how the Pope is Head of the Churche To the mater ye saie And truly wel said of you The .7 Chapt For hitherto you haue not directed your talke to the mater but to the person of your Aduersarie with whom you shew your selfe greuously offended for calling the Currish and snarling vtterance of Luther Dogge eloquence And whereas you would faine draw the same to the preiudice of my modestie I trust you that are so great a Rhetorician and so wel seene in poetes Fables wil iudge so muche the better of me for so muche as Quintilian that modeste and graue Oratour and Ouide also no Poete Satyrical thought suche phrase of speache not vnmeete for the countenance of modestie and humanitie that they bare in the worlde For if you remember Canina Eloquentia QuintiliaÌ„ lib. 12. c. 9 Ouid. in Ibin is Quintilians worde calle it dogge eloquence dogged eloqueÌ„ce or dogges eloquence or how soeuer otherwise it please you to terme it And Ouid saith Latrâ—◠〈◊〉 in toro verba canina foro If for the vse of this auncient terme I seeme to passe the boundes of modestie specially attributing it vnto Luther whose heretical and Deuilish vtterance is coÌ„monly in deede farre worse then the barking of any Dogge or the hissing of any Serpent what wil you saie of the Scolding of your hote brother M. Calfhil But now that after muche idle and impertinent talke you are come to the mater what saie you that is worth the hearing M. Iewels foule falsifying of my vvordes Thus you saie Ye saie that touching the influence of Grace Christe onely is the Head of the Churche I graunt I say so in deede Go ye forth and make no lye but touching direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Yea sir Where saie I so You should haue caused your printer to haue falsified that senteÌ„ce of mine that at your owne pleasure the simplest of your owne poore Fauourers who take al for the Gospel that you saie or write might not in your owne booke espie your shamelesse lying For euen there notwithstanding your coÌ„mon falsifyinges other where 's and also there they maie finde my saying otherwise reported It is an euident argument that myne owne wordes were to true for you to confute sith that you thought it necessarie least you should seme ouercome to alter and change them for other wordes of your own which being false to the vnlearned reader I might seeme to speake fondly and besides al truth For how is it likely I should saie that touching Direction and gouernement the Pope only is the Head Your fetche was to bring your vnlearned fauourers by whom you are magnified to beleeue that from the Direction and gouernement of the Church I excluded Christe and the holy Ghoste the spirite of truth Which God forbid I should doo Now the true wordes of my Confutation in this place are these Defence Pag. 92. whiche the Reader maie see also in the booke of your Defence although very much mangled and falsified of set purpose to thintent the force of truth by me opened should not be seene as by view of my booke it maie clearely appeare Where thus I saie For Head and Spouse alone he is of his kingdom in one respecte not alone in an other respect * Confut. fol. 44. a. left out by M. Ie. For a cleare declaration whereof it is to be vnderstanded that being of a Head maie be considered after two waies The being of a Head considered tvvo vvaies either according to the inward influence so as the vertue and power of mouing and of sense is deriued from the head vnto the other members or according to outward gouernment right so as a man is directed in his outward actes according to the sight and other senses AccordiÌ„g to it ward influence of grace Christe onely is Head of the Churche In respect of outvvard gouernement the name of Head is attributed to others beside Christe which haue their roote in the head Now the inwarde influence of grace is not of any other but of Christe only Bicause Christes manhood onely hath power to iustifie for that the same only is ioyned personally to the Godhead * According to this inward influence of Grace Christ properly and only is Head of his mystical body the Church But as touching
al the Christian worlde specially for condemning of the Pope bicause his supreme Authoritie can not beare with sundry your errours and Heresies as against any man in the worlde besides The force of your argument is this Wee maie not beleeue Paule him selfe if he speake any thing of his owne Head thereby to condemne Priestes for their liuing Ergo Peter hath no more authoritie ne no more power to rule then the other Apostles O M. Iewel cal in these argumentes for shame of the worlde why suffered you them to escape your penne That S. Paule said somevvhat of his ovvn 1. Cor. 7. But how saie you Sir Shal you not finde where S. Paule spake of his owne some thing Haue you forgotten who said Nā caeteris ego dico non Dominus For to the reste I saie not our Lorde and yet you must beleeue him if you denie not the Scripture Againe saith he not some thing of worldly reason as you haue translated humanum Rom. 6. where he writeth to the Romaines Humanum dico propter infirmitatem carnis vestrae I speake as one that foloweth the trade of mannes reason for the infirmities sake of your fleshe I trust you wil be intreated to beleeue him Thus how discretely you bring in the Fathers to speake for you I neede not to declare Your owne bad stuffe sheweth it at large The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuis 5. pag. 108. And as Hierome saithe Al Bishoppes vvhere so euer they be be they at Rome Ad Euagrium De Simplicitate praelator be they at Eugubium be they at Constantinople be they at Rhegium be al of like preeminence and of like priesthood And as S. Cyprian saithe There is but one Bishoprike and a peece thereof is perfitely and vvholy holden of euery particular Bishop Confutation My lady the Interpreter not without the wil and aduise of this Defender hath altered the sense of the latine as the author of the Latine hathe altered the wordes of S. Hierome For neither speaketh S. Hierome of Bishoppes in the plural number neither saith the Latine Apologie that the Bishoppes be al of like preeminence whiche this translation hath but of the same merite and of the same Priesthood c. Iewel Pag. 109. Here to dissemble these childish Cauillations of the altering of Numbers the Singulare into the Plural and of the changing of this vvorde Merite into this vvorde Preeminence vvhiche great faulte if it vvere any by M. Harlinges ovvne Confession proceeded only from the Interpreter and not from the Authour c. Harding Dissemble hardely M. Iewel what ye liste so that with al ye confesse the truth that you are not hable honestly to discharge your selfe of that whiche you passe ouer by dissimulation Suche dissembling shiftes serue your turne not seldome as the which you cā sooner vse then against the truth shape a reasonable answere But leauing aside your dissimulation Tel me I praie you where finde you that euer I confessed that the faulte of chaunging this worde Merite into this worde This vvorde Merite changed by M Ievvel into this vvorde Preeminence Preeminence proceded only from your good lady the Interpreter and not from the Authour Haue not I in plaine wordes tolde you the contrarie Haue I not laid the fault as much vpon the Authour that allowed the Interpretation as your good Maistresse M. C. saith in her epistle as vpon the Lady Interpreter How then can you deliuer the Authour from al blame by myne owne Confession Looke better M. Iewel vpon the booke againe where if you shal finde no suche Confession of myne but the plaine contrarie remember who is not ashamed openly to auouche Vntruthe But it wil not be otherwise you haue by long practise gotten a ful perfite habite thereof Iewel Pag. 109. VVhat S. Hierome meant hereby Erasmus a man of great learning and iudgement expoundeth thus Hieronymus aequare videtur omnes Episcopos inter se c. Harding Erasmus answered Difference founde betwen Deacon and Priest in Order and betwen Bisshop and Bisshop in power of gouernment And is Erasmus in deede a man of suche learning and iudgement The .28 Chapt. as you say If he be howe happeth it that you condemne those articles of religion which he confesseth true He agnised the real presence of Christes body and bloud in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter whiche you denie Erasmus against the false Gospellers Aduersus Pseudeuāgelicos fratres inferioris Germaniae Howe happeth it if he be a man of great learning that he wrote so earnest an epistle against the false Gospellers so he calleth them of your side of which number you are How happeth it that he wrote that vehemēt and long Epistle to the Brothers of the Inferiour Germanie cōmonly called the Lowe countrie to beware of al such heresies whiche you and your felowes do now professe If Erasmus be not such a one as you say why do you allege his autoritie whose iudgemēt in sundry articles ye contemne But what hath Erasmus to helpe you in this matter Truely when al is searched nothing at al. Yet by the waie it is to be marked that you would binde vs with Erasmus authoritie a man of our time whom your selfe in diuers Articles as in the approbation of the Masse of the real presence free wil and of such other do greatly dislike yet you wil not sticke to denie vtterly not only the autorities of the Fathers within these last nine hundred yeres but also of them sometimes that wrote within the first six hundred yeres For so do you deale afterward with that holy and great learned Father S. Leo whom you labour to discredit being pressed with the witnesse he geueth of the prerogatiue of the See Apostolike of Rome as though his desire were Pag. 111. as your false surmise is to enioie as great honour as he could for his owne time Haue you no better meane to auoide that Fathers authoritie M. Iewel but by charging him with ambition Where Erasmus saith Erasmus in Antidoto post Scholia in epist Hieronym ad Euagriū that S. Hierome seemeth to put in equal matche al Bishoppes together as if they were al equally the Apostles Successours that parte of his saying you could wel remember but where he saith within fiue lines folowing that the Metropolitane hath a certaine dignitie and Iurisdiction aboue other Bishops whiche taketh awaie the equalitie that you dreamed of your eyes without being called on that parte of the sentence were very loth to see Take the one with the other M. Iewel then is the equalitie of Bishoppes in regiment quite gonne though they remaine equal in the order of Priesthood and in that that the highest Archebisshop in the worlde yea the Pope him selfe is no more a Prieste nor Bishop then is the poore Bishop of Eugubium or who so euer is the lowest Bishop in the worlde though his authoritie to rule and to gouerne be more ample and large then
shal succede him that is your accursed addition but he saith non parcentes gregi which you haue left out Those rauening Wolues shal not spare the flocke but shal diuide the faith and scatter the flocke as you haue doone For where one Faith was you haue made two and where charitie was you haue set debate Now whereas S. Paule farther saith men speaking peruerse things shal spring out of them selues he saith not Act. 20. they shal spring by Succession That is your foule corruption of the holy texte He addeth also other wordes immediatly whiche you haue leaft out as vtterly betraying your foule Heresies It foloweth in the selfe same clause and sentence vt abducant discipulos post se There shal spring out of your selues men speaking peruerse thinges Act. 20. to leade away scholars after them Vt abducant to lead away Whence shal they lead them from the Apostles and from their Successours and from the flocke wherein they liued before Whither shal they lead them Post se after them selues That is to saie they shal not keepe the former Succession of Doctrine and order teaching as their Fathers haue donne but they shal departe from that Succession and shal leade and cari◅ others awaie with them and become peruerse Teachers in suche sorte that they shal haue Disciples of their owne who shal beare their name as Luther hath the Lutherans Zuinglius hath the Zuinglians Caluine hath the Caluinistes after him who goe away from their forefathers Doctrine and them selues set vp a new beleefe comming in Christes name and pretending his Gospel but yet not teaching his truth bicause thei leaue the Succession where only his truth was and is taught For it onely doth by open practise shewe and witnesse the true meaning of his worde vvho be the leaders avvay of the Flock 3. Reg. 12. This this M. Iewel is the Succession that we claime by Tu abducis you leade awaye the flocke from their auncient Pastours and shepeherds we tarie stil behinde in the old Succession of Peters Chaier Ieroboam went out from Moyses Chaier and caried ten tribes after him so did Arius and so did Luther so did Caluine so doo you The Prophetes taried behind with Moyses Chaier in so muche that good Simeon Anna Zacharias Elizabeth and our Ladie the Blessed Virgin Marie chose rather to dwel in Gods Church with the vnclean scribes and Pharisees then to goe out ofter the Samaritans and to seeke a cleaner Congregation either in the mount Garizim or in Egipte in the Scismatical Temple of Onias Euen so doo we abyde stil in the olde Church neither are we greatly moued with your mockes and scoffes when ye cal it the Mumpsimus Churche Yea we abide contented with the olde translation of the Bible with the olde Portuises and Masse bookes yea perhappes also emong some Scribes and Pharisees But yet there by Goddes grace we wil looke for our Lords glorious comming who commended our forefathers to the special charge of Peter Ioan. 21. and therein vs to his Successours We are within the Fold ye without we are Sheepe ye are Goates we keepe in al that we can ye drawe away and pul out al that ye can we sprang not out of you but ye out of vs. If S. Paule had spoken of his Successours in that place he would not haue said Vt abducant to leade away scholars For when some be leadde away some others tarie behind Now the Successour if he abide not behinde he is no Successour Nestorius a skatterer of the flock but a leader away In so muche that Nestorius being Bishop of Constantinople yet when he taught otherwise of Christes Person then his Predecessours had donne he was then no Successour of Alexander Paulus and S. Chrysostome because he disalowed those his Predecessours but he was a scatterer of the flocke and a leader away of Scholars after him selfe and not after his Predecessours Thinke you that any true beleeuing man taketh you M. Iewel for one of the Successours of S. Augustine our Apostle M. Ievv no Successour of our Apostle S. Augustine who conuerted our English nation from Idolotrie to Christe Are you his Successour Why you lead men away from him and persuade in this your booke that he was not our true Apostle nor any true teacher of Gods worde but a cruel and blouddy man 1. Ioan. 2. and proud aboue measure Away Woolfe and deuoure thy Goates abroade thou camest from vs but thou wert not of vs for if thou hadst benne of vs thou hadst remained stil with vs. I exhorte al Christian menne to returne vnto the Succession of Peter and of al other faithful menne who abide in the same faith with him Iewel S. Hierome saith they be not alvvayes the children of holy men that by Succession haue the places of holy men Dist 40. Non est Harding Double holines There is a double holinesse one of life an other of state or office Concerning life it is true that many times euil men succede in the place of good And so meant your Author M. Ievv falsifieth S. Hierome Dist 40. Nō est facile as his owne wordes whiche in the same sentence you haue leafte out doo witnesse For thus he saith Non Sanctorum filij sunt qui tenent loca sanctorum sed qui exercent opera eorum They are not the children of the Saintes who holde the places of the Saintes but those who practise the workes of the Saintes In this sentence you haue leaste out the ende and haue caste in of your owne the worde alwayes and these two wordes by Succession And when al is done the sentence is not S. Hieromes but Gratians owne added to the former woordes of S. Hierome Howbeit they are somewhat altered Hierom. epist ad Heliodorū For thus saith S. Hierome Non est facile stare loco Pauli tenere gradum Petri iam cum Christo regnantium It is not an easy thing to stande in the place of Paule and to holde the Degree of Peter now raigning with Christe of whiche ye can take no aduantage against Succession whereof we treat Holinesse of degree and office Ioan 1. But concerning holinesse of Degree state and office there is the same holinesse in the Successour which was in the Predecessour For it is Christe that baptizeth and that in like ministeries worketh by the euil man as wel as by the good so long as the Succession is not broken of and forsaken For if that be once done he that maketh the breache is not properly a Successour in truthe but a beginner of errour As for example Who wil say that Cranmer was the Successour of S. Thomas Cranmer no Sucessour of S. Thomas the blessed Martyr or of Bishop Warrham in the Chaier of Cantorburie I trowe he him selfe would not say it if he were a liue seing he succeded not in their Faith and Doctrine Iewel Pag. 127. Not vvithstanding the
ad Antichristum velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent VVould God they vvere not al gonne by consent together from religion to superstition from saith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist These fevv vvordes considering either the speaker or the place vvhere they vvere spoken may seme sufficient Harding If you had considered either the speaker or the place so as you ought to haue donne you might haue benne ashamed to haue alleged the woordes of a Catholike Prelate for your purpose For what soeuer he meant by them you may be wel assured he meant not to say that the Catholique Churche was gonne from faith to infidelitie or from Christe to Antichrist Otherwise he him selfe would not haue stil continued in that Catholique Churche which had seemed to him to haue lacked faith Cornelius episcopus Bitōtinus and Christe But nowe the man is knowen in al Italie and is aliue to this daye who stil continueth in dayly preaching and in exhorting al men to flie from your heresies to the Catholike faith and to keepe them in the Churche so that his deedes do wel shewe what he meant by his wordes The whiche rule S. Augustine would haue kepte in the vnderstanding of what so euer Writers A lesson hovv to vnderstande mennes vvordes in matter of Religion Contra epist Parmen li. 3. cap. 4. and specially touching religion And who so euer doth not so vnderstand mennes wordes by their deedes vpon his blindnesse he cryeth out in this sorte Incredibilis est coecita hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tanta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorum factorúmque patesceret vsque adeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt commemorent sanctae Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis prophetarum quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarum It is an incredible blindnesse of menne and verely I knowe not howe it might be beleeued that there is suche frowardnesse in menne onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so fast closed that they allege the testimonies of holy scripture and do not consider by the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded And straight after where S. Augustine saith those wordes he sheweth by example what he meant Hieremie had written Hier. 2. what hath Chaffe to doo with the Wheate The Donatistes thereupon reasoned that the Catholikes were Chaffe and them selues Wheate but saith S. Augustine by waie of exposition there did Hieremie that said the Iewes were Chaffe forsake their Church and fellowship No verely How so euer then Hieremie the prophete meant we ought to vnderstand his wordes according to his deedes And seing as concerning his deedes he liued in one Temple and faith with them whom he called Chaffe we may be wel assured that by the name of Chaffe he meant not that the Iewes had not true Faith and Religion but only that they had not true Charitie and Obedience Euen so if M. Iewel would consider that the Bishop of Bitonto goeth not from Italie to Geneua nor to Germanie nor to England but both abideth stil in his Bisshoprike and hath so much preached against these present Heresies of Luther Zuinglius and Caluin that now three whole Volumes of his eloquent Italian Sermons are extant in print if he would haue considered this he might haue benne ashamed with such a great brauarie and so ofte to haue alleged a Catholike mannes woordes against Rome the mother Churche of al Catholikes S. Augustine calleth it an incredible blindnesse so to doo and suche as no man would beleeue except he saw it vsed But by whom Verely by Heretikes who hauing no truth for them doo stil make vaine bragges and shewes of woordes when the very deedes of them whose woordes they bring are against them Which thing I stand the longer vppon bicause M. Iewel hath vsed this practise aboue a thowsand times in his pretensed Defence M. Ievvel euery vvhere allegeth their vvordes for him vvhom by their deedes he vvel knoweth to be against him Aboue a thousand tymes I say he hathe alleged the woordes of Schoolemen Gloses Summistes and Canonistes for his purpose whereas he wel knoweth they beleeued al suche as he is to be detestable Heretiques and for suche condemned them Yet must they be brought in and that so often so seriouslie and with suche Preambles as though he woulde beare the worlde in hande they were cleare of his side Neither did Cornelius the Bisshoppe of Bitonto speake of the Bisshoppes of Rome specially as M. Iewel would beare the Readers in hande Bitōtinus in oratione habita in Concil Tridentino but generally of the Christians saying that they haue wandered like sheepe in hilles and feeldes and that the chiefe of them are turned from authoritie vnto Lordlynes from right vnto wronge and would God saith he they were not vtterly as it were with one consent bowed from Religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist Neither doth he say they are al gonne as M. Iewel englisheth the woordes Hovv M. Ievvel falsifieth his allegation The woorde al is not there Againe he saith not they are gonne by consent altogether but velut prorsus vnanimes as it were vtterly of one minde The worde velut as it were doth temper his woordes but M. Iewel hath leafte out velut and hath put in this worde al lest if the sentence of that Bishop should be thus tempered it should not seeme greuous inough His meaning was to complaine as euery good man dayly doth vppon the vices of menne who liue as if they had neither Faithe nor Religion And that woulde haue appeared most plaine if M. Iewel had not cutte of the later woordes of Cornelius vncourteously stopping him from telling out his whole tale For in the very same sentence it foloweth A Christo ad Antichristum quin à Deo ad Epicurum vel ad Pythagoram velut prorsus vnanimes declinassent Would God they had not as it were vtterly with one consent gonne a side from Christe to Antichriste yea rather from God to Epicure or to Pythagoras These last woordes whiche made al plaine were omitted by M. Iewel as his custome is and the authours tale is falsified and his woordes abused For any man woulde soone iudge that they goe not to Epicure or Pythagoras to the ende to mainteine the doctrine and opinions that those Philosophers helde Pardonne me good Reader if herein I seeme to long For at this tyme I doo but as it were geue thee a shewe what and howe muche might be said in euery other Article of the Booke if I thought it labour worthe to discusse them particularly For I assure thee in my conscience there is not any thing in this pretensed Defence whiche might not be wel and easily answered were not that it seemeth to me a thing both superfluous so to answere suche heapes of
lyes and gloses and also an vnprofitable bestowing of good time Iewel They are gonne from Faith to infidelitie from Christe to Antichrists Harding Which they M. Iewel Did he speake of the Popeâ—… of Rome M. Ievvel odiously layeth that to the Bishops of Rome vvhiche vvas spoken generally by vvaie of coÌ„plaint of al euil ChristiaÌ„s You say touching the Church of Rome c. And yet now you bring forth that which was generally spoken and that by waie of complaint of al euil Christians and not namely of the Bisshops of Rome Againe how are they gonne from faith to infidelitie and from Christ to Antichrist Verely bicause they are gonne froÌ„ God to Epicure that is to say bicause many of them liue as if they had neither faith nor Christ nor God Last of al he saith not they are gonne as you falsifie his wordes but with a moderation would God they were not gonne He sheweth him selfe to feare lest they be gonne he taketh not vpon him boldly to affirme it as you doo Iewel And yet al other thinges failing they must holde onely by Succession and only bicause they sit in Moyses Chaire they must claime the possession of the vvhole This is the right and vertue of their Succession Harding Is it not reason if secular men hold their kingdomes landes goodes and rightes by Succession yea when al other rightes forces and vertues faile that Gods Ministers if they had nothing els leaft should hold stil their owne also by Succession It is wel knowen that the Bishops of Rome haue more then only Succession For they make good Decrees they geue answer to great consultations they cal General and Prouincial Councelles they execute the Canons of them and send forth Preachers as of late they haue done euen vnto the new found Indies beside many other godly and vertuous actes which they exercise for the saluation of their own soules and of the people But what if they had nothing but Succession Would you then haue men forsake their folde and Church Did Isaias so did Esdras so did Iudas Machabeus so did Zacharias so did S. Iohn Baptist so Can you deuise the Popes to be worse then Caiphas or the Pharisees Math. 23. And yet Christ willed them to be obeied albeit they had litle els beside Succession It is this Succession M. Iewel which shal lie in your and in your companions waie at the dredful day of accompte It shal not be demaunded of euery man why he studied not the Scriptures which most men haue not learned to reade But it shal be demaunded why they haue no faith nor charitie No faith by forsaking the open and knowen Succession no charitie by breaking vnitie Euery man seeth Succession ignorance can not be pretended and euery man shal be iudged by it concerning his Faith Iewel The vvordes of Tertullian M. Harding vvhich you haue here alleged vvere spoken of certaine your ancient fathers that had raised vp a nevv religion of them selues as you haue also done vvithout either vvorde of God or example of the Apostles and holy fathers Harding It is happy that at the length Here at length M. Ievvel beginneth to ansvver my vvordes but how consider you beginne to answere my wordes We shal now see how wel you touche Tertullians meaning You say his wordes were spoken of certaine my ancient Fathers That can not be so For none are in this behalfe my fathers but those who loue wel the Succession of Bishops But Tertullian spake of those De Prascription aduersus Haret that esteemed the Succession of Bishops as litle as you do And therefore they are your fathers of whom he speaketh that is to say they are Heretikes of whom he speaketh For in dede no heretike can abide Succession bicause they would faine iustle out the olde Succession to schuffle in their new Intrusion You say the men of whom Tertullian speaketh raised vp a new Religion of them selues and therein you say truth You adde as I also haue donne but therein you belye me for ye are not hable to laye any one point of doctrine to my charge wherein I follow not that old Succession which abhorreth al new Religion Let al the worlde iudge who raiseth vp a newe Religion you or I. You say the Heretiques of who Tertullian spake raised vp a new Religion without the Worde of God example of the Apostles or of holy Fathers If you meane without the true meaning of Gods worde you say truth and then you also are without Gods worde bicause you are without the Church whereunto Gods worde with the true interpretation thereof was geuen and we are not without it bicause we conteine our selues within the Churche But if you meane that these heretikes did not sounde the wordes of the Scriptures in their lippes as falsely and withal as fast as you doo then you say not truly For Tertullian in that booke doth shew that the Heretikes also appealed to the Scriptures Tertullian in Prascript aduersus haeret and he answered that to striue with heretiques vpon the scriptures was a thing of vncertaine victorie bicause one saith it is not holy Scripture an other saith it is holy Scripture one saith it is meant thus an other saith it is â—â—â—â—t otherwise But saith Tertullian the interpretation of the Scriptures belongeth to them It booteth not to striue vvith heretiques about the Scriptures who haue the true faith and he concludeth that they haue the true faith who haue the perpetual Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne daies Scripturas obtendunt hac sua audacia statim quosdam mouent The Heretiques pretende to bring Scriptures for them selues and with that their impudencie forthwith they shake some And afterward Ibidem Ergo non ad scripturas prouocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum certa Therefore we must not alwaies appeale vnto the Scriptures neither must we striue about them in which either no victorie at al or an vncertaine or verely not very certaine victorie is obteined Then sheweth he that heretikes of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures but onely the Catholiques Heretiques of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures TertulliaÌ„ Ibidem to whom the Apostles deliuered them and not them only but other thinges also viua voce by mouth and worde without writing Si hac ita sunt constat proinde omnem doctrinam quae cum illis Ecclesiis Apostolicis matricibus et originalibus fidei conspiret veritati deputandam reliquam verò omnem doctrinam de mendacio praeiudicandam quae sapiat contra veritatem Ecclesiarum Apostolorum Christi Dei. If this be so then is it euident that al such doctrine as agreeth with those that are the Apostolique Churches the mother Churches and the original Churches of the faith is to be taken for true and that al other
euer allege against the truth without some corruptioÌ„ In S. Paules words you leaft out a smal word in appearance but yet great of strength The worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 enim M. Ievv corrupteth S. Paule which in english doth signifie for This word for geueth great light to S. Paules meaning For wheÌ„ he had said that the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles was coÌ„mitted vnto him euen as the preaching of the Gospel to the Iewes was coÌ„mitted vnto S. Peter least any man should thinke that he meant of a special commission purposely reserued to him alone by God he declareth how that commission might be proued Qui enim operatus est Petro For he that hath wrought in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circuncision that is to saie of the Iewes hath wrought in me also emong the gentiles That same enim for doth make the place plaine They knew that God had no lesse committed the Gentiles to Paule then the Iewes to Peter How knew they it For he wrought now as mightily with Paule emong the Gentiles as he had wrought before with Peter emong the Iewes So that S. Chrysostome wel noteth Chrysost in 2. ca. ad Galat. non dixit postquà m audissent sed cognouissent hoc est ex ipsis didicissent factis He said not after they had heard but after they had knowen that is to say after they had learned by the deedes them selues Marke M. Iewel marke the deedes them selues It was now the commission of the deedes whereby God declared him selfe to haue wrought in them both But that not withstanding S. Peter did might and ought to preache vnto the Gentiles and to plant and dispose their Churches no lesse then S. Paule And S. Paule might likewise plante dispose and order the Iewes Churches For their right was one concerning the Apostolike authoritie Iewel VVhere you say that according to the ecclesiastical Canons euer from the Apostles time Bishops haue euermore ben consecrated by three other bishops vvith the confirmation of the bishop of Rome Harding I said M. Ievv falsifieth my saying with the consent of the Metropolitane which you haue here pared awaie and Confirmation of the Bishop of Rome I added also thus Vnitie hath euer benne kepte whiche you also haue vntruly leaft out Iewel Pag. 129. As if vvithout him no man might be allovved to be a Bishop yee should not so vnaduisely report so manifest Vntruth For I besech you vvhere be these Ecclesiastical Canons VVho deuised them VVho made them VVho gaue the Pope that singular priuilege that no Bishop should be admitted in al the vvorlde but onely by him Harding Among the Canons of the Apostles this is the first Episcopus à duobus aut tribus Episcopis ordinetur Let a Bishop be ordered or made Bishop by two or three Bishoppes These Canons are allowed by the sixth General Councel Yet can you aske where be these Ecclesiastical Canons who deuised them who made them By a Decre of Hilarius no Bishop can be coÌ„secrated without the Metropolitanes consent What Consecration could M. Iewel and his felowes haue who hath neither Metropolitan at al nor lawful Bishop to Consecrate them Howbeit touching this I nede to saie litle for in the very nexte side of the leafe M. Iewel confuteth him selfe Where as one that had quite forgoten him selfe he saith thus Our Bishoppes are made in Fourme and Order as they haue benne euer by free election of the Chapter by the Consecration of the Archebishop and other three Bishoppes If this be the Fourme and Order of making Bishops that hath benne euer to be Consecrated by tharchebishop and three other Bishops why were you so hote against me in calling for th'Ecclesiastical CanoÌ„s which you bind your selfe now to shew or elles you must confesse that you haue made this new order that hath not ben euer Anacletus In epist Decret The Popes autoritie of coÌ„fiming Bishops is of Christ Ioan. 21. But now concerning the Popes authoritie to confirme Bishops to omit for this present the olde Canon of Pope Anacletus which is afterward alleged and to shew the first author of this mater Christe who made Peter the chiefe Pastour of al and who gaue commission to him louing him more then the other Apostles did to feede accordingly as he loued that is to feede more then the oâ—her Apostles did Christe who inspired Peter to goe to Rome and there to settle the Apostolike See and Chaire of his Bishoply Primacie Christe who inspired Peter to make S. Clement and the other Bishoppes of Rome his Successours gaue the Bishop of Rome Peters Successour this Priuiledge that no Bishop ought to be a Bishop without his consent For what reason can suffer that any man shal gouuerne any part of those sheepe whiche are al committed to the Bishop of Rome without the Bishop of Romes consent which consent is a Confirmation sufficient to any Bishop for the due gouernmeÌ„t of his flocke Now this consent of the Bishop of Rome was many wayes knowen For when soeuer he coÌ„sented to the general order of the catholik Church to wit that he should be a Bishop whosoeuer were laufully chosen by the Clergie Optatâ—us lib. 2. Communicatorie letters then his coÌ„sent was geuen generally And when after the election made coÌ„municatorie letters thereof came to Rome as to be head place of the Christian CoÌ„munion then was the said Bishop specially coÌ„firmed and so coÌ„firmed that the Pope could not choose but coÌ„firme him except he could make any iust exceptioÌ„ against him For as no man ought to gouuerne in the Church without the Popes confirmatioÌ„ when it may coÌ„modiously be had without impediment euen so the Pope must nedes confirme those who are lawfully chosen except he wil vpon good ground change the gouuernmeÌ„t of the Dioces to a more profitable order as many times it hath ben don This mater would require a large Treatise But it is in part handled already in my first booke set forth against the Articles of your ChaleÌ„ge M. Iew. wher you might haue sene what I alleged why the Pope should confirme Bishops so that now this thing should not haue ben so strange vnto you Ievvel Pag. 129. I remember your Canonistes haue said Felin D. constitut ca. Canonum statuta col 6. ver fallit M. Ievvel speaketh as if he had ben a Canonist many yeres agoe the Pope may make a Bishop only by his vvorde vvithout any farther Consecration Harding Do you remember it M. Iewel It was clearkly spoken forsooth and in such sort as if you had ben an olde studeÌ„t of the CanoÌ„ law many a winter past and that now whiles you had ben occupied in higher maters yet some of these former meditations had come againe to your minde and worthily For it was a thing much to be mused vpon of him that occupieth a Bishops place what Felinus or Panormitan said coÌ„cerning the Pope The truth is M. Iewel you either had this
Counters the Kinges Beanch and other prisons in London be hable to kepe men fast But if you speake of your owne Church surely you had Apostates and renegate priestes in it Aduersus LuciferiaÌ„ or you had no Church at al as out of S. Hierome I shewed before who saith no Priest no Church And verely no trew Church euer was there without an External and publike Sacrifice which it might offer to God to acknowlege that he is the beginning and ende of al grace and goodnes But where no external Priesthod is as you now beleue ther is none there is no external Sacrifice and coÌ„sequeÌ„tly no true Church And seing renegate priestes can not make a true Church nor their Sacrifice can be acceptable vnto God yea rather seing they are of the mind and belefe that it is not lawful to honour God with the external Sacrifice of Christes owne body and bloud leaft to vs for that intent it doth stil follow that although ye haue true Priestes which runne from vs yet haue ye neither true Sacrifice by them nor true Church Ievvel Pag. 131. Tâ—rtullian saith Nonne laici sacerdotes sumus scriptum est c. And vve being laye men are vve not priestes it is written In exhortatione ad CastitateÌ„ Christ hath made vs both a kingdome and priestes vnto God his father The authoritie of the Church and the honour by the assemblie or Councel of Order sanctified of God hath made a difference betwen the laye and the clergie whereas there is no assemblie of ecclesiastical Order the priest being there alone vvithout the companie of other priestes doth both minister the oblatioÌ„ and also baptize Yea and be there but three together and though they be laye men yet is there a Church For euery man liueth of his owne faith Harding Wonder not M. Iewel as you confesse that once you did at your misfortune and euil lucke in that by vs a thowsand faultes are sooner fownd in your bookes then you could wel without blushing if any shame were in you note two hundred in myne For who so euer writeth against the truth can not possibly bring one word which for maintenance of an vntruth may be altogether truly applied after the writers minde out of whome the same is alleged onlesse that writer were him selfe an Heretike or in that behalfe by better iudgement noted of some errour Therefore it is easier to find many thowsand Lyes in your bookes then any fewe in myne And as that hath ben shewed in many other examples heretofore so shal it now appeare most euidently in this which you bring out of Tertullian TertulliaÌ„ in exhort ad castitatem MoÌ„tanus and Tertullian coÌ„demned the secoÌ„d Mariages First the booke and worke that you allege is one of those which Tertullian wrote against the Churche after that he became an Heretike and was one of the disciples of Montanus For as Montanus did condemne the second Mariages so did his scholar Tertullian Who hauing corruptly interpreted many places of S. Paule commeth at the length to proue his heresie by conferring the olde Testament with the new Ecce in veteri lege c. Beholde saith he in the olde lawe I finde the licence of mariyng ofte to be inhibited It is enacted in the booke of Leuiticus Sacerdotes mei non plus nubent my Priestes shal not marrye any more But the fulnes of the law as in other pointes so in this was reserued to Christe alone VVhereupon it was more fully and more streightly prescribed that those ought bo be of one matrimonie who are chosen in the Priestly ordâ—r In so much that I my selfe remember certaine menne for hauing had two wiues to haue ben remoued from their place of Priesthod An obiection of TertulliaÌ„ against him selfe But thou wilt say Then is it lawful for other menne to marrie twise for so much as exception is made against them to wit against Priestes to whom it is not lauful to haue ben twise maried Hitherto Tertullian hath gon about by the example of the Priestes of the olde and new Testament to shew that Laye men also may not marrye but once For in the newe Testament S. Paule would haue them only chosen to Priesthod Tit. 1. The husband of one vvife who are or haue benne the husbandes of one wife that is to saye haue neither had two wiues at once nor haue married a widowe nor haue had two wiues one after an other For al this doth the Apostle meane and the auncient Fathers do so witnesse Now Tertullian saw euidently that there was a difference betwen Priestes and laye menne whereupon he made the former obiection to him selfe that the second mariages which only do staye a man from being Priest are absolutely lawful for him who wil be no Priest but wil remaine stil in the degree and state of laye men To the which obiection being to strong for Tertullian it behoued him so to answere as yet his heresie against the second mariages might be mainteined So that nowe M. Iewel bringeth forth his heretical answer made vnto a Catholikes argument Thus then Tertullian goeth forwarde Vani erimus si putauerimus quòd Sacerdotibus noÌ„ liceat laicis licere nonne laici Sacerdotes sumus We shal be deceiued or we shal be vaine men if we shal thinke that to be lawful for Laye menne whiche is not lawful for Priestes We that are Laye men are we not Priestes also And so he goeth forward with that which M. Iewel did allege for his purpose Double priesthod For wheras there is a double Priesthod one publike and external which is onely coÌ„mon to those that receiue power to consecrate Christes Body and Bloud at the Altare the other priuate and internal which is indifferently common to the Priestes and to laye men whereby they al receiue power in Baptisme to offer spiritual Sacrifices vnto God 1. Pet. 2. as S. Peter saith Tertullian would haue the argument to be good that as none are made publike and external Priestes whiche haue had two wiues so none who are internal priestes might haue two wiues But Tertullian is deceiued in his heretical argument as wel as M. Iewel is in alleging an heretical authoritie Whereupon S. Hierome saith Montanus TertulliaÌ„ enemie â—o sâ—coÌ„d mariages qui Nouati schisma sectaÌ„tur putant secunda matrimonia ab Ecclesiae communione prohibenda cùm Apostolus de Episcopis Praesbyteris hoc praecipiens vtique in caeteris relaxârit non quòd hortetur ad secunda matrimonia sed quòd necessitati carnis indulgeat Montanus and those who followe the schisme of Nouatus thinke that the second Mariages ought to be forbidden from the Communion of the Church whereas the Apostle geuing that commaundement vnto Bishoppes and priestes hath doubteles released it in other men Not that he exhorteth them to secoÌ„d mariages but bicuase he yeeldeth to the necessitie of the flesh So that S. Hierome reproueth
yet haue benne more plaine if you M. Iewel had not practized your olde false sleight in cutting of my wordes For when I had asked whether D. Capon Shaxton Campegius or Audley or any other bishops of Sarisburie taught your doctrine I answered thereunto it is most certaine they did not How be it I staied not there but went forward to remoue that your obiection of Capon and Shaxton whiche I forsawe you would make And thereunto I said thus How so euer those two first named Capon M. Ievvel left out al these wordes bicause thei ansvvered him fully and Shaxton onely in some parte of their life taught amisse how afterward they repented abhorred your heresies and died Catholikes it is wel knowen Now beside these whome els can you name Al these wordes of myne you leafte out M. Iewel as if I had neuer printed them You leafte them out not onely by not answering them but also you did not suffer them to be printed in your booke emong myne owne wordes leaste you should haue benne answered before you had replied as most times you are as it should appeare if it would please the Reader but to vew and peruse my woordes ouer againe and diligently to conferre them with yours Which I wish him to doo not only for trial of this point but also al others whereof so euer both we haue treated And he shal say you were answered before you made the Replie confuted before you made your pretensed Defence But what conscience haue you that liue at least mainteine the life of your estimation among them of your Secte by lying by dissembling by cutting of by adding vnto by mangling your Doctours briefly by deceiuing the reader one waie or other You were ashamed to haue no predecessour at al in the See of Sarisburie and to be like Nouatian or Donatus and such other the like Heretikes And therefore you name two Predecessours both which protested at their death that you and al your felowes are Heretikes and repented that euer they communicated with you so farre as they did Thus you come of your selfe as the Deuil doth and shal come in his chief member Antichrist And you come not holding by lineal Succession nor by lawful Sending as Christ came being sent of his father and being borne of the seede of Dauid and of Abraham But you are without Predecessours and I am sure if God for our great sinnes forsake not our Coūtrie you shal not long haue Successours Iewel For the rest of the bishops that vvere before them vvhat faith they held and vvhat they either liked or misliked by their vvritinges or sermons it doth not greatly appeare Harding What neede wordes when dedes speake It is euident they kepte that which they receiued of S. Augustine our Apostle and that which was before and afterward beleeued in al Christendome Thei said Masse they adoured Christes body in the blessed Sacrament who doubteth of it They asked their cōfirmation of the bishop of Rome and acknowledged him to be the Apostle S. Peters Successour Therefore they were not your Predecessours in faith and doctrine you may be assured M. Iewel Iewel I trust they held the foundatiō and liued and died in the faith of Christ Harding Now now M. Iewel you haue bewraid M. Ievvel be wraith him selfe what you teach in corners now that lurking heresie is cropen out whereof I spake in my Preface to you before my laste Reiondre touching the Sacrifice of the Masse There I shewed that the Catholike Church must be beleeued in al pointes of Religion and that they were Heretiques who persuaded them selues that it was inough to beleeue certaine Articles of the faith and to let the rest alone not regarding whether this or that be true But what cal you the Foundation of the true faith You knowe that al your Predecessours acknowleged the Popes Supremacie said Masse and beleeued the doctrine of the seuen Sacramentes and taught so Otherwise they had ben noted for Heretikes of others who liued together with them as you are of them who liue with you Seing then you know they did so what can you meane by the foundation but onely the beleefe of the Trinitie and of Christes birth death and Ascension As though it were inough to beleue those thinges what so euer become of the reste Math. 12. Math. 18. Luc. 10. But Christ saith he that is not with me is against me He that heareth not the Church let him be to thee as a heathē and a publicane He that heareth you heareth me he that despiseth you despiseth me and him that hath sent me And S. Paule saith 1. Tim. 3. Iacob 2. Agust epistol 29. ad Hieron The Church is the piller and sure stay of truth And S. Iames he that faileth in one is made giltie of all that is as S. Augustine expoundeth it he that faileth or sinneth against Charitie is giltie of al other faultes Nowe charitie is broken if vnitie be broken and vnitie is broken if the bishops beleeue not euery Article of the faith expressely which the Churche teacheth to be expresly beleeued Therefore either your predecessours were with you or against you There is no midle or meane With you they were not bicause they taught seuen Sacramentes and the Popes supremacie and the Sacrifice of the Masse c. Therefore they were against you And then ye are the first of that faith and doctrine whiche now ye teache You therefore came of your selfe and are without Predecessours Iewel 131. If they had liued in these dayes and seene that you see they vvould not haue ben partakers of yours vvilfulnesse Harding These are the wordes of an Antichrist who seeking to make him selfe equal with Christ doth vse such Phrases by his wicked members as Christe did vse concerning his owne person In deede Christ and only Christ might say such wordes bicause he only shewed such miraculous workes that were hable to haue turned Sidō and Tyrus Ioan. 2. 10. or any other hard harted people But what haue we seene in these dayes M. Iewel which would haue ben hable to haue made al your Predecessours to haue yelded vnto your new faith Haue ye spoken with al tonges as the Apostles did Nay ye haue cōfoūded and dispersed them as it was done at the building vp of the toure of Babylō For whereas in holy matters and specially in the Church Seruice we seemed to be deliuered from the curse of the Diuisiō of tongues bicause many nations of diuers lāguages were vnited and knit together in one Latine or Greeke Church Seruice you go about to set the worlde againe as farre a part by diuers vulgare tongues as euer it was before Christes cōming Haue ye built vs new Churches or schooles or hospitalles or colleges Nay ye haue pulled downe the olde and defaced them to the vttermost of your power Haue ye made peace in the earth and reconciled al dissensions Ye haue rather diuided the subiecte
or vnto the Latine If you sticke vnto the Latine worde Patres which signifieth Fathers or Ancestours you meane not I trow that Polycrates had seuen Fathers for that were to much by six you knowe One Father is ynough pardy for one man If he had seueÌ„ Ancestours what gather you therof that he was married bicause he had seuen Ancestours Where is your Logique becomme M. Iewel The truth is good Reader here is Ruffinus belied Ruffinus belied He traÌ„slateth not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Patres but Parentes whiche goeth further of in signification then the word Patres doth as the learned in the Ciuile Lawes doo knowe And this Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 properly signifieth kinnesmen them that be neare in bloud them that be of one familie and of the same kinred S. Hierom translateth it propinquos Hiero. in Catalogo in Polycrate and him foloweth Sophroniê° putting for S. Hieromes Latine word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifiing them that were nye in bloud Now Polycrates Bishop of Ephesus said in his epistle to Pope Victor that 7. Bishops in that See before him were of his house his familie his stocke his bloud