not only the name and title as it is vsually called besides your own grant but the cōstitutiō also sheweth for it hath a pastor over the whole nation the Archbishop of Canterbury Metropolitan and Primate over all England your most reverend father in God who maketh consecrateth the Diocesian Bishops whereupon ariseth Diocesian Churches or Sees and they againe make your Parish Priests to the Archbishops and to his successours the inferiour Bishops haue sworne So help them God in Iesus Christ all due reverence and obedience This your book of consecration sheweth and we desire you to shew vs warrant for those things in the Scripture if you can or else shew vs where you haue learned them In your 8 Demand you say thus The name calling and office of these Bishops for either you must meane these Bishops or the like or else you speake nothing to the matter in hand Whether say you wee respect ordination of ministers or power of jurisdiction is the same for substance expressed in the New testament And this you say hath been and will be proved seeing it hath had a continuall succession from the Apostles time vnto this day c. If you were as redy to proove as you are to affirme things then were your valour something worth But you and the rest are so loth to be drawne to prooue yow ministry and ordination by the word of God that if you cannot make vs take your word for the lawfullnes therof then you will try by all means possible how you can get vs into some prison and keep vs there vntill you haue founde your proofe out of some other darke corner for by the light of Gods worde wee thinke you will never be able to proue the lawfullnes thereof These things that you say have indeed been often by others affirmed but never otherwise proved then by you at this present But if you good sir would now take the payns to proue what you haue saide by the word of God your paines would deserue thanks of many And withall let me intreat you sir I pray you because you say it hath had a continuall succession from the Apostles time vnto this daye to shewe me for my learning which of the Apostles was the Arch Apostle or Archbishop If you please so to call him ouer or before all the rest and from whom or by what authority he had that high place and Lordly office And also where and with whom he left that his Arch-Metropolitane authoritie to lord it over the rest as these do at this day as you say I professe vnfainedly that if I could see these things proved by the word of God I would soon through Gods mercy change my minde But in the meane time to let passe the rest of that frothie stuffe which might be raked together in these your 7 and 8 Demands I will come again to your 7 demand though I could from the 16.17.18 and 19. lines in your 8 Demand light you such a candle as I think you would be loath that any should see the light thereof but I will not blow at that cole now yet you against your will I am sure haue made a fayre beginning to kindle it where you say thus The Pope was not Antichrist before he had gotten the title of vniversall Bishop nor compleat vntill he had gotten into his bands both swords that is both Civill and Ecclesiasticall Dominion if I should now add but a little of your owne fuell to that coale these your words would discover a great part of the mistery of iniquity which growes in your ministry at this day But to let that passe nothing doubting but God in his good time by the brightnes of the Gospel wil cause the same to appear more and more dayly I will come to your 7 Demand where you tell vs of the Gospell soundly and substantially taught and professed and the sacraments so rightly administred and received in your Church as for proportion no country in the world you say nor Nationall Church whatsoever can affoord the like c The like vaine boast of all the grounds of Christian religion soundly held and professed c. I met with in your third Demand but neither there nor heare you speake any word of the practise Christian religion and of the kingly power and office of Christ governing your Church of these things you say nothing nothing how Christ ought to reigne as King in his Church by his owne Lawes and ordinances executed and administred in and by his owne offices and officers which he hath given unto and appointed in his Church forthat worke Ephe. 4.11.12.13 Rom. 12.6.7.8.9 Not a word of this I pray you Sir let not this candle be light howsoever you do you may make your people think that Christ will be a Prophet to teach them and a Priest to sacrifice for them though he be not a King to rule and reigne over them in and by his owne Lawes and officers they peradventure know not or dare not tell you that this is a denying of apart of the mediatorship of Christ therefore Sir as long as you can let them not know the kingly office of Christ nor what the Holy Ghost saith in Luk. 19.27 let them know no other government for the Church but your spitituall courts it wil serue their turne well enough untill the Lord shall moue their harts better to consider and discern the truth of his will reveiled in his word which in his good time he will do unto all those that earnestly desire and with upright harts seeke and labour to worship and serue him in spirit and in truth And now I will labour to shew the deceit of your vainglory in boasting of the word and sacraments which you say are so soundly taught and administred c. You would haue us and all men take it for granted that the nation of England is the true visible Church of Christ which you are not able to proue then you go on telling us of the sound and substantiall things in this your Church but we would first intreat you to shew us your Church constituted and builded according to the scripture if your Church be as you would make us beleue then shew it that we may see and discerne whether it be soundly and substantially built of choyse trees and of pretious living stones to the best of mans discerning hewed and squared and fastned together according to the heavenly patterne every stone living elect and pretious I say still in the best of mans discerning every stone hauing his beauty his burden and order all of them laboring to support one another to edifie one another to exhort to admonish and reproue one another that so they may be the habitation of God as these scriptures do shew Exo. 19.5.6 and chap. 25.8.9 40. 1. Chro. 29.2 Zach. 14.21 compared with Heb. 8.1.2.5.6 c. Chap. 9.11.14.1 Pet. 2.4.5.7.8.9 Act. 2.37.41.42 Rev. 1.5.6 Heb. 3.13 Chap. 10.24.15 Lev. 19.17
mighty reason a minore ad majus which words indeed I vnderstand not is this If say you our Lord Iesus his disciples and people did not separate from thire Sinagogues and assemblies that vvere in faith and maners more defectiue then ours are much lesse ought they to separate from our assembles vvherein all the grounds of Christian religion are soundly held and professed you might haue added and but fevv practise neither of preists nor people in vvhom couetousnes vvrath enuie and contention doe daily abound many thousands neither knowing nor regarding to knovv vvhat true faith meaneth and for their manners vvhich you vvould seeme so much to commend let the manners even of that Parish assembly vvherein your selfe did of late exercise your spirituall authority in vain as also the mānerly conditions and conversation of almost all in generall testifie hovv true this your bold affirmation of their manners is and vvithall let the Readers minde that although you boast of all the grounds of christian religion yet it is but held and professed not practised among you so that it may seeme you beleeue also that to hould and professe vvithout obedience is sufficient for the salvation of the professors but to the intent that this may be better discerned I doe intreat and desire all that are christianly minded to reade and consider of these fevv places of scripture Iam. 1.21.22.25.26 Tit. 1.16.2 Thes 1.7.8.9 Eze. 22.26 I vvill only poynt the places let the godly reade and iudge 4 Demand Novv to your fourth demand vvhich is Whether those great multituds of people spoken of Math. 14.13.14.15 c. Ioh. 6.5.10.11 can with any reason be denyed to be members of the visible church though yet wanting the pretended constitution of the Separatists and albeit many of them you say were drawne not by doctrine but by miracles report and with their desire to be fed c. 4 Answ To this your demand I ansvver directly yea they may vvith good reason grounded on the word of God speaking as you doe of the multitude be denyed to be members of any visible Church and this doth plainely apeare in the same 2 chapters namely Mat. 14. Ioh. 6. which may also be compared with other scriptures to proue the same There were none of them members of the visible Church of Christ but those that did visibly appeare to be Christs Disciples but the multitude that followed him for their bellies sake were not his Disciples as the very words of the text doe proue where a diffecence is put betweene the one and the other First looke Mat. 14.19 where it is said Hee caused the multitude to sit downe and when he had blessed broke he gaue it to the disciples the disciples to the multitude And whē they had all eaten were sufficed he caused his disciples to enter into a ship while he sent the multitude away Mat. 14.22.23 Mar. 4.4 If you say he taught them altogether it is true yet was it in parables and afterward he expounded all things to his disciples aparte Mar. 4.10.11.34.35.36 Mat. 13.10.11.13.14.15.36 And thus it doth plainly appear that the multitude were not his disciples and consequently not members of any visible Church of Christ for then he would not haue sent them away empty in their soules and full in their bodyes but he would haue expounded all things to them altogether for their edification and further comfort But the text doth plainly shevv the disciples to be vvithin and the multitude to be without Mar. 4.10.11.12 And whereas you further demand Whether those 3. thousand in the second of the acts that were converted at Peters Sermō were not true mēbers of a true visible Church before they had officers chosen among them c. I Ansvver yea they were this you say cannot bee refuted and it is true but what haue you gained by this what doth this helpe the multitude spoken of before If I should charge you here with deceitfull dealing by shuffling this place of the Acts with the other tvvo places of scripture therby to make your demand seem something and of some weight blinding therewith the eies of your readers I doubt you could hardly cleere your selfe with a good conscience but howsoever you would seeme to shuffle them together to serue your turne yet they are plainly distinguished thus as followeth This place of the Acts speaketh of three thousand godly penitent sinners pricked in their hearts for their sins and converted at that sermon the multitude spoken of in the other two scriptures were not such by your owne grant Againe these in the second of the Acts received the apostles doctrine gladly and forsaking that froward generation with whom they lived they ioyned them selues vnto the Church as appearath in the 37.40 and 41. verses Now who can deny these 3. thousand though still the multitude be denied to be members of the true visible Church when the text saith they were added to the Church although it should be granted that as yet they had no other officers chosen but the Apostles But then say you And why not our Church-assemblies in England much more grounded in the faith a true visible Church c. I ansvver no it vvill not follovv because howsoever some fevv of yovv may be more grounded in knovvledge of the truth then they vvere and thereby your sins and transgressions much more greater against God by knovving more and obaying lesse your parrish assemblies vvere not at the first gathred from others by the preaching of the vvord their hearts being touched vvith godly sorrovv for their sins neither do they yet appeare to be pricked in their hearts for their sins as those three thousand vvere Your parish assemblies do not gladly receiue the Apostles doctrine and continue therein vvith gladnes of heart to be directed and ordered thereby as they did but every man among you vvill doe vvhat his owne heart listeth euen according to the frowardnes and anger of his euill heart so that vvere it not for the lavves of the nation and the power of the magistrates restrayning them more then the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles the manifold mischiefs that would be done by one against another among you through the enuie and malice of your euill and wicked hearts is too manifest to be denyed and too shamefull to be defended I do hartely desire you Sir to examine your own heart well in this point minde well the exhortations that the Apostle giveth in Heb. 3.12 2. Cor. 13.5.6.7.8.9.11 1. Cor. 11.28.29.30.31 you see and know that your Parish-assemblies are so far from continuing in the Apostles doctrine that they neither konw therfore not receiue nor yet regard to know what the wholsome doctrine of the Apostles meaneth I speake not this of all in particular the Lord knoweth my heart is far from so thinking I know many that haue tender consciences and loving affections and do well regard the best rhings but I speake generally of the
conditions of the most with whom the better sort stand all in the communion and in one order or disorder rather being mingled together all in one brotherhood and that not by personall fayling but by the very constitution and lawes of your Church civill and ecclesiasticall cleane contrary to the revealed will of God in his Word Even you your self Sir that are a leader and professe your selfe to be a guide to the blinde you breake the law of God and defile his holy things you put no difference betweene the holy and prophane neither discerne between the vnclean and the cleane so the Lord is prophaned among you Eze. 22.26 Consider I pray you and compare together these few places of Scripture Mat. 18.1516.17 Rom. 16.17 1. Cor. 5.11.12.13 2 Thes 36.7 c. and then compare this order heere appointed by Christ and his apostles vnto the order of your Church and Parish-assemblies you shall see even by these 5. places of scripture how far you are from that holy order which Christ in his last will and testament hath given and appointed vnto his visible Church to walke in and to practise You compell all that are of your Parish howsoever vnworthie or vnable to pay their offrings and to receiue the communion especially at your holy time of Easter there is the table prepared bread and wine set come that will and welcom Esay 65.11.12 yea if they be dwelling in your Parish and will not pay their offrings and come to the communion daily they are by you presented into your spirituall Courts thither they are summoned if they appeare not obedienly paying their fees clearing the bookes c. they shall be by that Court excommunicated out of your Parish-assemblies and then before they may be admitted againe either to the fore named banquet or to your devine service as you call it their purses must pay deere enough for a blessing or absolution which they must receiue humbly kneeling on their knees before Mas Commissary or Mas Chancellors worship and if they die excōmunicate before they haue received this bounsing blessing they may not be brought into your holy ground to be buried there in christian buriall as you call it vnlesse their friends will first purchase absolution for them If the mould of this came not from Rome then I pray you Sir shew vs where you learned it for in the whole Bible we cannot finde any such spirituall order given or appointed by God vnto his Church 5 Demand Your 5. demand is Whether that in Constantines the first Christian Emperour tyme and ever since vnto M. Iohn Calvins dayes for the space of 13 hundered yeeres there was no Christian Churches in Asia Africke and Europe because they had the same outward constitution formall state Bishops Archbishops Metropolytans and Church government for substance substance of doctrine that our English Church hath and retaineth c. To tell you the truth I know not well how to answere this your demand yet not because it is so divinely grounded on the word of God but only because I want scoole learning and knowledge of auncient Authors writings as being not able to read and vnderstand them so that now you haue me at a non plus as wise men and fooles vse to say Yet this is one thing much to be lamented that a man of your place and learning should leaue the Scripture the true worde of the living God and thus inquire of the dead but according to the ould proverbe like will to like 5 Answer Thus much I say for answer to this your far-fetched demand I do beleeue and am fully perswaded by the word of God that in whatsoever Emperours or Kings time since the time of Christ in what Nation or Country soever whether in Asia Africk Europe or wheresoever any Church or Churches hath been is or shall be gathered or constituted in any other manner or by and with any other matter vnder or vnto any other worship ministry spirituall Governours or spirituall government then the same for substance in manner and matter which Christ and his Apostles haue appointed in the new testament they are not the true visible Churches of Christ I do not meane hereby an absolute true and perfect gathering or constituting but that all things both for the gathering and continuing of the true visible Church of Christ must be so far as can be discerned by men agreable to the word of God as God shall make men able to discerne and vnderstand the Scriptures And this is all that I can say for answer to this your demand only I will not loose the good advantage that I haue gained by the same which is this I see that you are not able to approue your Church by the word of God and therefore you are driven to make inquiry and to look about you to see if you can espie and find out any other Churches though never so far of whose constitution or gathering ministry and worship ecclesiasticall Governors and Ecclesiasticall government is for substance lyke vnto you hoping by them to iustifie your selues but how like it is that other Churches can afoord you any help or sauegard when as by the verdict of Gods word you stand cōdemned let the godly iudge Hee hath neede of a staffe that leaneth on a reed And yet even for this your poore proof it is affirmed by some who know those histories that it is a very boast without all truth that the Churches either in Constantines time or a long time after were gathered by compulsion of all tag and rag in the empyre as yours are of all in the kindome or that there were any such Arch Bishops or Lord Bishops with sole authority to rule and governe Besides let the Reader note how in your very Demand you do grauut the great difference betweene the Churches since Calvines time that is betweene all reformed Churches and your vnreformed Church of Enland 6 Demand Your sixt Demand is Whether the reformed Churches in the lower and higher Germany in France the Churches in Geneva c. that come neerer to our constitution and discipline you say then yours in England do be true visible Churches or no c. To this your Demand you haue added two branches depending vppon the former the which I will answer as you haue set them downe one afer another 6 Answer I answer yea they are true visible constituted Churches and haue a true and lawfull ministery set over them both which you in your Parish-assemblies want Then you further demand and say If they be such why then do not we adjoyn our selues to some of those but distaste them you say as much as wee do yours I thinke Sir it had been a poynt of wisedom first to haue heard our answer before you had thus hastily affirmed that we distast them as much as we do yours but Solomon hath answered you for your haste Pro. 29.20 And I will answer your Demand I haue in my