you Brethren in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ that yee withdraw your selves from every brother that walketh inordinately c. and vers 14. If any man obey not this our saying in this letter note him and have no company with him that he may be ashamed Clearly implying that to with-draw communion and to deny Christian fellowship unto Christians walking inordinately is both a means of Divine institution and otherwise proper and commodious in it self to reclaim and bring them to Repentance There is the same reason of Churches in this behalf which there is of persons Churches being nothing else but persons embodied Secondly suppose there were no such sufficient or satisfactory remedy for the inconvenience mentioned in the way of the Apologists as A.S. conceives to be in his which yet there is as hath in part already and will afterwards further appear yet Lawyers have a saying that a mischief is better then an inconvenience A man had better run the hazard of a greater loss then expose himself to a daily wasting and consuming of his estate A man had better be wet through and through with a soaking showre once a yeer then be exposed in his house to continuall droppings all the yeer long The Delinquencie of whole Churches such I mean as is matter of publique scandall or offence to their neighbour Churches is not an every dayes case no more in the way of Congregationall men of Presbyteriall Government you acknowledge the rarity of it in your Government and we affirm it in ours Now then much better it is to want a remedy against such an evill which possibly may not fall out within an age though it be greater when it doth fall then it is to expose our selves to continuall droppings I mean to those daily inconveniences which wee lately shewed to be Incident to the Classique Government Thirdly they that implead the Congregationall way for being defective as touching the matter in hand seem to suppose that God hath â—ut a sufficiency of power inâ—o the hands of men to remedy all defects errours and miscarriagâ—s of men whatsoever Elâ—â— why should it be made matter of so deep a charge and challenge against the way of tâ—e Apologistâ— that it affords not a sufficient and satisfactory remedy either to prevent or heal all possible miscarriages in all churches I would willingly know in case your Church transcendent your supreme Session of Presbyters should miscarry and in your Doctrinall determinations give us bay stubble and wood in stead of silver gold and precious stones a misprision you know wel-neer as incident to such Assemblies yea and to those that are more generall and oecumeniall then so as obstinacy in errour is to particular Congregations what remedy the poor Saints and Churches of God under you have or can expect against such a mischiefe or what remedy you now have in the way of your government for the recovering of your selves out of such a snare more then what the Congregationall way affordeth for the reclaiming of particular Churches Nay the truth is your Government in such a case is at a greater loss in respect of any probable or hopefull remedy against such an evill which yet is an evill of a most dangerous consequence then the other way of Government is for the reduction of particular Churches That hath the remedy of God as hath been shewed though not the remedy of men and yet that remedy of God which it hath in appliable by men and those known who they are viz. the Churches of Christ neer adjoyning but if your great Ecclesiastique body be tainted or infected though never so dangerously Corpora morbis majora patent Sen. God must have mercy on you and that in a way somewhat at least more then ordinary if ever you be healed For that Directive power in matters of Religion which had you left it in other mens hands might in this case through the blessing of God have healed you being now only in your own hath not only occasioned that evill disease that is upon you but also leaves you helpless and cureless by other men A. S. makes the greatest part of his arguments against that way of Government which hee opposeth of what iffs I mean of loose and impertinent suppositions and cases that are not like to fall out till ursa major and ursa minor meet unto which kind of arguments every whit as much as enough hath been answered already but he shall shew himself a soveraign Benefactour indeed to the Presbyterian cause if he can find out a remedy satisfactory and sufficient against that sore evill we speak of incident to his Government in the case mentioned which is a case both of a far worse consequence then the obstinacy of a particular Church in some error and I fear of a far more frequent occurrence then the world is willing to take notice of Fourthly let us ponder a little how sufficient and satisfactorie that remedie against the evill now in consideration is which the Classique politie under the protection of A. S. his pen so much glorieth in let us compare the two remedies of the two corriving polities together as A. S. hath done after this manner But the Presbyteriall Government saith he p. 39. is subject to none of these inconveniences For the collective or combined eldership having an Authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves thereunto Every man knoweth their set times of meeting wherein sundrie matters are dispatched and all things carried by pluralitie of voyces without any schisme or separation Not to be troublesome to the man about his Grammaticals wherein hi pen slips oftner then Priscian will tolerate in such a piece because in these he opposeth nothing but a mans conceit either of overmuch scholarship or overmuch care in him Here is a remedie indeed against some inconveniences but whether the inconveniences be not much better then the remedie adhuc sub Judice lis est But what are the inconveniences The first is that Churches being equall in authoritie one cannot binde another to give any account in case of offence given Well what is the remedie for this in Classique constitution The combined Eldership having an authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves c. What is another inconvenience In case other churches were offended in the proceedings of a particular church they could not judge in it for then they should be both judge and partie in one cause c. Well what is the remedie in Presbyterian politie The combined Eldership having an authoritative power all men and Churchches c. What is a third inconvenience That Congregationall Government giveth no more power or authoritie to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tinker yea to the Hangman over a thousand c. What is the Presbyterian remedie for this The combined Eldership having an Authoritative power c.
any man into pain or trouble with my self by imparting my fears But when Sheep bring forth Lions and Dâ—ves Serpents and calm Christian-like spirited discourses invective bitter and high rising raging Answers and Replies Difficile est prophetiam non scribere Who can but prophecie God of his mercy destroy the sign and make the prediction vain As for the Author of the black Observations and Annotations 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he hath his wages well paid inâ—o his bosome for his work in the precedent and subsequent of this Discourse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Anatomie of Independencie c. As for Levi the Anatomist who hath joyned himself with his brother Simeon the Annotator to massacre the innocent Narration though for the present hee hath taken sanctuary under the shadow of the Figure Anonymiâ—â— and for fear of the woâ—st I mean dishonour and disgrace for fear of authority in this case swimming with the Presbyterian stream hee could have none playes least in fight with his name yet I make no question but his day also is in coming wherein his false translation of streight actions into crook'd reports will be corrected and amended according to the originall and the mysterie of his intentions in that translation truly translated into the knowledge and understanding of all men This Anatomicall or cutting Discourse according to my A. S. his calculation wants nothing of a perfect libell but only that it hath the formality of an Imprimatur to cover that nakedness of it otherwise as well in the Privatives of it as Positives I mean as well in respect of the want of the Authors name as of the matter and content of it quantus quantus est sapit libellum eúmque famosum Suppose his Narrative of Independent infirmities and miscarriages would abide the touchstone yet was it a grand over-sight in a man pretending to so much knowledge and wisdome as hee seems to do in this piece not to consider whether the dung-hils of Princes as well as of Peasants do not afford rags to them that will rake in them whether the independent story though written by an adversary yeelds that proportion in weakness which the Presbyterian Commentaries if but unpartially penn'd would do in wickedness I am not afraid to refer it to the conscience of the Anatomist himself to judge and say under which of the two governments the throne of Satan is lift up the higher and whether thefts rapines murthers drunkenness blasphemies sorceries witchcrafts c. reign and are like to continue reigning more in the Independent then Classique territories But I trust the men upon whose faces that dirt is cast will wipe themselves clean in due time and wrest the dissecting knife out of the Anatomist's hand I hear a bird sing that the bird in their breasts sings a note of innocencie from those aspersions For the present I shall leave this Author to the reward of those that intend to do God service in persecuting his Saints There is another Advocate for the Presbyterian cause step'd forth lately upon the Stage who adventures his name upon the confidence it seems which he hath of his work 'T is intituled A Confutation of the Anabaptists by T. B. This man with a party of his discourse faces the Anabaptists whilest with the main body of it he falls in upon the quarters of the Independents in which respect though I cannot justifie him in his intentions yet as touching matter of execution I judge him innocent Animum nocentem calamum innocentem gerit Independencie if I mistake not very much will never fall by the edge of his sword But Reader when shall we see an end of these disputes in the world and when shall the names of Presbyterian Independent with all others of the like troublesome and jarring importance cease from amongst us I cannot prophesie unto thee the justness of the time when this great wonder shall be but some few signes of this time approaching if ever it shall approach I conceive I am able to inform thee First when men shall begin to grow to a clearness singleness honourableness and Christian like greatness in their ends making themselves and their own interests their foot-stool and the glory of God and the publike accommodation of the world their throne this is one great sign that that golden age we speak of is at the door The reason is because there is no hope scarce a possibility of a general accord amongst men in any degree conscientious but in the truth or mind of God revealed in the Scriptures No other band is like ever to gather them all or hold them longer fast together The reason of this is because in a great society or communion of men worshipping God aright I mean with uprightnesse of heart it is seldome or never found but that some of them fewer or more have the truth of God revealed to them some in one point and others in another and that with such assurance or evidence of understanding that no arguments or reasonings to the contrary whatsoever are able to remove them or alter their judgements therein So that except all the rest shall come over unto them and joyn with them in such particulars as these there is no possibility of a thorough union in judgement between them Now there is no way means or method more probable and hopefull to bring men to the knowledge of the truth or which is the same of the mind of God delivered in the Scriptures in all things then that simplicity or Christian nobleness of spirit which we spake of in their ends The reason is because the tenour frame and constituting principles of the Scriptures are cast moulded and ordered by him that is the great Author of them on purpose to comport and fall in with such ends as were mentioned viz. his own glory and the publike accommodation of men from every particular and on the contrary to oppose thwart and cross every man in all his personall and particular ends whatsoever which have not a perfect intire consistence with those other So that he that is inspired acted and led by those high and noble ends the magnifying of God and doing good to the community of men can have no occasion or tentation at any time upon him to bow strain force or wrest any Scripture because in their native and proper sense and tendencie they comply with him and as the Hebrew phrase is speak to his heart whereas on the contrary if men be ingaged in self-ends and aims which are incompliant with the glory of God and the general good of men as when they make these their foot-stool and their own honor or greatness their throne they have a strong tentation amounting to little less then a necessity upon them to deal violently with the Scriptures to bend and strain and force them out of their owne rectitude and streightness because otherwise they wil not countenance or comply with them in their crooked ends
of a Booke thus A touch on W. R. his booke called The grave Confutation c. A most grave and modest Confutation of the errors of the sect commonly called as W. R. sayth Brownists or Seperatists so his skill writes it for Separatists agreed upon long since by the joynt consent of sundry godly and learned Ministers of this Kingdome then standing out and suffering in the cause of Inconformitie and now published in a time of neede * VVhat now all or the greatest part of them come to our publik meetings and the Apol. disclaims Separation and Brownisme unlesse you would drive them to corners again c. against that pernitious evill Published by W. R. As if their sufferings were a seale of the just length of reformation how farre we must go and no further When as the most of them stood only upon the negative part What they would not have but onely a few declared positively of which some for a Congregationall presbytery or Church-way be it or be it not a pernitious evill as W. R. calls it God forbid that if wee have suffered for Christ in the behalfe of any piece of truth that therefore we should pride up our selves as having done so much or stint our selves from proceeding further in knowledge or affright our selves from suffering more if more truths bee to be contended for as the Apostle speakes or least of all through the sides of Brownisme or Separation to would the truth Saints of Jesus Christ just in the nick of such reproachings cast upon them that disclaime in words and practise all pernicious Brownisme c. It cannot bee forgotten that the choicest doctrines held in England have beene called pernitious heresie And therefore it is an high peremptorinesse in a generall title to call all those things pernitious evils some of which are truths We have and doe disclaim Separation and Brownisme properly so called But if the Pope or the Devill * Mar. 1.24 confesse Christ we will not therefore call that truth a pernitious evill I suppose all that W. R. book sets forth in heads and Chapters as to be confuted are some of those things hee means are pernitious evills As 1. That pag. 8. Many Parish-Churches are not rightly gathered 2. That p. 11. That they Communicate in a false and idolatrous worship as stinted prayers Homilies Catechismes 3. That p. 17. they want that Discipline and order which Christ in his Testament hath appointed for the gouernement of his Church 4. That p. 50. That it is objected against them that the ignorant and prophane multitude are admitted to all priviledges of the Câ—urches Are these we give but a tast pernitious evills Then you condemne Smeclymnuus for writing the Parliament and Assembly for removing and about to remove these exceptions And most presbyterian Ministers in London for forbearing togive Communious to such multitudes Mr. Calamy said that an imposed Lituâ—gie was idolatry And our worthy brethren of Scorland justly stood up against these enormiâ—ies No wonder therefore if W. R. booke abound with weakenesses and impertinencies in stead of Confutation of such things as these For I patronage not any false or unadvised speeches of Barrow or c. there used 3. A. S. Saying That the Apologists differ from the most reformed Churches in the world Some of which hee knowes are in Holland more in England most in New-England all publike Churches if hee speakes not falsly or ignorantly yet begging the Question whether the Churches named or the Classicall Presbyterian are most reformed To close our answer to this tell us no more of your multitudâ—s the Lord keepe us all from the broad way that leadeth to destruction though many there be therein One Phinees one Elijah left alone in the eye of the world two against thousands viz. Caleb and Josuah in the truth are more to be honored then swarmes of swarvers I judge none The time is at hand that ten men shall take hold of one Jew * Zech. 8.23 and so on one true christian Godly men may be hunted out of a Kingdom not of the truth meane while such a Kingdom may be without them but neere the more without judgments England was never quiet but worse worse since it hunted away almost a little Nation of Saints to New-England though W. R. joyning issue with A. S. will follow them with a blotting pen in print even to that Kingdome too Yea and take in his way many Churches in old England and some that are and lately were in Holland and then have at New-England none comes amisse that have gone an inch in reformation beyond W. R. his Non-Conformitie Like him who would strike all that were next him who e're they were that injured him And all this worke he cuts out for himselfe in his booke he calls a Narration of some Church courses in New-England ☜ O that all Readers that will not be wilfully blind would by the way observe how A. S. condemnes the Apologists as guiltie of dissenting from the Churches in New-England And W. R. condemnes them for agreeing with the Churches of New-England So that A. S. and W. R. doe not agree betweene themselves But you shall have an Answer to that booke of W. R. in a distinct treatise by it selfe ere long God permitting Meane while we goe forward with A. S. A. S. I am perswaded in my conscience that your opinion of Independency c. if it were admitted pardon my expression till I be better instructed could not but prove the roote of all sorts of Schisme and Heresie and consequently the utter overthrow of Christs universall militant Church M. S. If you speake cordially as supposing indeede that you may be better instructed it had beene best for you to have stayd for the Assemblies determination or to have conferred with some of them you write against before you had written and printed that desperate speech lest the inke seeme letters of blood to you at your dying pillow I warrant you if what one or many say onely would make an argument a multitude would say that a coactive classicall Presbyterie would be the root of couched Prelacy and Ecclesiasticall tyrannie But I will not be one of them to say so Probatum est in New-England that which you call Independency hath not procured but cured or purged out heresies schismes formalitie prophaneness more then some other Kingdoms that so hate and hit at mis-called Independeney A. S. You sue for a Toleration and consequently for a Separation M. S. So then where Papists are tolerated there they are Separatists too It 's but the Noun of multitude between but that the Independents in England might tolerate and the Presbyterians might be tolerated would they then be Separatists Who desires separation but rather union in the truth If any hold the truth and stumble though of weakness at some smaller matters as you count them it is your duty to suffer them and to bear with the weak
up Josh 22.11 Negatively the outward act either of speaking such evill opinions or doing such evill facts may be restrained and yet no violence done to the conscience to act contrary to it's inward dictates and perswasion being not yet convinced they are evill This being only a suspension and intermission of the outward man from acting towards others not a coaction or subversion of the inward acts of judgement and understanding in himself And so Jewes or c. may be permitted among Christians so as they do not manifest their errors and defiance against the fundamentall truths that so they may hear and believe and be converted or how else shall they be won to the truth and the promise of God fulfilled touching their call 2. The spreading and practising of opinions that apparently tend to Libertine-licencious ungodliness ought not quietly to be permitted They cannot be suffered but with sinne and reproof from Christ to the sufferers of them Rev. 2. v. 14. to v. 21. where two Churches viz. Pergamos and Thyatirâ— are charged with sinne and reproved by Christ for having among them and suffering Balaamiues Nicolaitans and Jezabellians to vent such opinions viz. 1. That under pretence of liberty and charity wives were to be common 2. Vnder pretence of avoiding scandals and perils it was lawfull for Christians to be present at the the sacred things Idolatries and joyiall banquettings of Pagans Vâ—de Port. in 2 Revel as things indifferent These in the Churches ought to have been excommunicated if refractory out of the Churches These not of any Church if they will not be convinced by conference with the Churches ought to be restrained from their evill practises by the Magistrate according to the examples of the pious Kings reforming abuses upon the ground of Moses penning of politiqâ—e laws to punish them that could not be accounted meet members of a Church for their lewd lives 3. For those opinions that are neither against fundamentals nor tend to licenciousness but stâ—ive to beat out truths thereby to creep closer to the rule to walk more evenly in the path both of Doctrine and Discipline and will in both by a strict bond amongst themselves walk as exactly as by any power Ecclesiastical without them set above them a their own wilâ— shall be in stead of others lawes I say such opinions are not to be restrained either from all divulging or practising that wee can finde by any Scripture We wave the question now Which is the only true form of Discipline and put the case in generall What opinions and practices that are conscienciously taken up ought to be left unrestrained To which our answer is that this sort here are they or else how shall there be a trying all things a trying of the spirits a discovery of new light and present truths prophesied to be revealed in their severall periods of times If any be contrary-minded we shall be glad to hear their grounds till they produce those and make them clear to the Churches wee ask our due a quiet permission to injoy that liberty which Christ hath bought and the Gospel brought and not to be jeered by any A. S. as here who tells the five Ministers that to live quietly without troubling the State they may have it appearingly unsought Let the world judge whether here be not a saucy jeer both in matter and form of speech I would A. S. had made use of that toleration and then he had not so intolerably troubled a Kingdome Or else if he had no stomack at first to be quiet if for some days he had but had somewhat appearingly allowed him to bite upon somewhat appearingly to quench his thirst he would have had a stomack rather to eat and drink then bite and jeere He is so passionate that hee doth not remember what he says in one page so as it may be reconciled to another Here he saith the Parliament is wise enough and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God you may perceive his meaning by reading his Interrogatory yet in his Annotation upon the inscript of the Apologie pag. 5. He supposeth that the Parliament should arrogate if it should take upon it any directive power in matters of Religion If he hath any Scholastick quillet to reconcile this within himself it is more then the common people and weak brethren he writes to know of M. S. Note that A. S. bath one Consideration more But were it not that it it did answer it self I should have been too weary of his former inconsiderate considerations to have staid here being eager to come to his book 1. He saith that they ayme at separation he meanes the five Ministers though they disclaime it in their Apologie unlesse to separate as our brethren the Scots did from Prelaticall coaction should tolerate some small pretended defects they are but pretended yet he saith not approved by those from whom they desire to separate 2. He saith the Church from which the five Ministers would separate testifies a great desire to reforme defects yet those defects saith he are but pretended to be in it 3. Hee thinkes that the five Ministers should doe better to stay in the Church to reforme abuses then by separation to let the Church perish in abuses Now he supposeth destroying abuses and would have the five Ministers stay to helpe reforme yet he is angry with their Apologie that doth but sigh forth an intimation of neede of reformation And so angry that he would as ye heard in his second consideration it s so long since that he hath forgotten it have the five Ministers quit the Assembly A. S. his Annotations upon the inscription of the Apologists Narration M.S. If I thought A.S. had any skill in Physick I would aske him whether by Annotations he meanes as the Physitians speake Annotationes incompressas becticarum febrium indicia violent annotations are sigâ—es of an hectick feaver in his vitall parts A. S. All Apologies suppose some accusation which here appeares none M. S. Not to meddle with your Engâ—ish which is scarse grammaticall you are intreated to speake true Doth not the Apologie begin and end with sad complaints Remember our answer to your fourth Consideration A. S. If intended for an Answer to that which hath been written against your opinions it comes very short weake and slender M. S. Why then would you fight with a fly The Mouse told the Elephant that he would never get honour in killing a silly Mouse Why did you bestow so much Oratorie and Logicke to clap it and fisticuffe it A. S. Neither is it a meere Apologeticall Narration but also a grievous accusation against all our Churches as destitute of the power of godlinesse M. S. This indeede is a false accusation as we have cleered it in our Answer to your fiâ—t Consideration A. S. The Apologie saith humbly submitted c. So humbly submitted to the honourable Houses of Parliament as if they submit not themselves to your
desires c. for any thing I can see yee seem no wayes minded to submit your selves to theirs M. S. I am sorry your eyes should be so dim or your selfe so to doat All indifferent men can see in the Apologie abundance of propensitie to submit to them according to truth farre more then there is in one A. S. to submit to five Ministers whose holinesse you admire and whose learning you extoll A. S. You being Divines ye should rather first have consulted with the Assembly of Divines your brethren then so ex abrupto gone to the Civill Magistrate that arrogates not to himselfe any directive power in matters of Religion this is more convenient to the spirit and power of godlinesse that the spirit of the Prophets in such matters should be subject to the Prophets then unto the spirit of the Civill Magistrate M. S. Marke how this fellow A. S. 1. supposeth it arrogancie in the Parliament to have any directive power in matters of Religion in case the Assembly which God forbid should mistake Surely by this bold expression he would not have the Parliament judge of the reasons of the Assembly in case of dissent Least of all doth A. S. consider that the Parliament are Members of many excellent Churches That they laid downe the Common Prayer book in their houses before some Presbyterians could see reason to doe so That the Parliament so looked on the Assembly chosen by them as not to take things meerely upon trust but see with their owne eyes 2. He dreamingly supposeth that either our Assembly is like the Assembly of Scotland for breadth and strength or else hee takes them for a Church and in the act of prophesying which last I wonder A. S. being a rank Presbyterian should in the least allow of and call the five Ministers to the rule thereof 3. A. S. supposeth that it is lesse convenient to the power of godliness for the wronged five Ministers to appeale to the Civill Magistrate in Parliament 4. A. S. supposeth that because the Parliament have chosen the Assembly that therefore some men in some cases at least should wave the Parliament and goe to the Assembly This is A. S. his fine intimation prompted to all scandalous and false teaching erroneous Ministers to take up and learne in their cases relating to Religion to wave the Parliament and to goe to the Assembly 5. A. S. supposeth that the Assembly would bee so unwise see what a silly fellow A. S. is as to goe beyond their Ordinance to judge one anther When as they will take upon them no such thing not so much as to cast out or take in one member without the Parliament much lesse will they judge persons that shall wrong the five Ministers that are not of the Assembly The rest of his Annotations on the Inscription are but meare paper blots and therefore I omit them A Preface to the READER by way of Introduction to the insuing part of the Discourse which respecteth the Book it self READER HAving diligently perused the Cacologeticall or rough commentaries of A. S. upon the smooth Apologeticall Narration of the five Ministers I finde the greatest difficulty that hee is like to encounter who by a sober Answer shall desire to make the world amends for that injury which that writing hath done it is this how to make his answer soft ' enough For the truth is that here is much more anger or passion then reason to turn away and the Wiseman informs us that it is A soft Answer that turneth away wrath Prov. 15.1 If A. S. could be but redeemed out of the hand of that great jealousie wherewith he burns over his present apprehensions in re Presbyterali though all the arguments and strength of discourse wherewith his judgement is supported therein were left intire to him he would be found in a sufficient posture himself to do himself the right of giving satisfaction unto the world for the wrong he hath done it in that discourse and to make his atonement with his own pen. Though in many cases Anger is able to do more then reason can undo yet in matter of argument or writing the little finger of a mans reason is commonly able to pull down what the loins of his passion hath in a tumultuary way and method built up Any man that shall but diligently observe the endless variety and multitude of keen expostulations imperious interrogations the importune peremptory and insulting charges criminations and aspersions the wrigglings wringings wrestings wranglings the strainings stretchings stingings stinglings the captious crooked and cross-grain'd Interpretations of things wherewith that piece is farced in an unreasonable proportion to the bulk of it cannot lightly but conclude that Indignation was the chief Oracle consulted with about the framing of it But because I would willingly decline all occasions of heat and recrimination as far as a sober and just vindication not so much of the persons as of the cause so evill-intreated therein will bear I shall chiefly confer with A. S. about his Reals and leave men of common civility to determine and judge of his personalls unless possibly somewhat in this kinde shall now and then occasionally fall in I make no question but that the Apologists will be well able to bear it that the cause which they maintain should have the preeminence of their persons in point of defence nor are they so scanted in the consciousness of their own worth and innocence but that they are very well able to be out and bear the want of so much of their reputation for a time as the Observations and Annotations of I know not who have unjustly taken from them especially in case they shall see it bestowed by their friends upon the accommodation of that honourable cause wherein they are ingaged and declared Since the former impression of this Discourse I perceive there is yet more anger and indignation broke forth into the world against that harmless gall-less and Dove-like Apologeticall Narration concerning which that may be truly said though in a different sense which Ausonius said of none of the worst Emperours in his Epitaph Marcus Antonius Auson de duodecim Caesaribus c. Hoc solo Patriae quòd genuit nocuit All the harm it hath done to the World or its Country only is this it hath begotten and that not in its own likeness children of sweet sober and temperate spirits Aelian lib. 1. cap. 29. but rough blustering Borean Observations and Annotations ghastly Anatomies with some such other Heterogeneall fiery impressions Aelian makes report of a strange prodigie once happening in a Grecian Island viz. That a Sheep brought forth a Lion This Lion brought forth with this remarkable and eminent contrariety to the course of nature presag'd as the same Author relateth tyrannie I had much rather be a benefactor to the world by the communication of my hopes to it when I have any that may befriend it then to draw
but condemn them He that intends to make hoops of a clean streight-bodied tree must in the working of it alter the comely shape and streightnesse of it wherein it grew and bend and crook and bow quite round all that he imployeth of it to such a purpose whereas he whose Art and intent is to make Javelins Lances Pikes or the like of such a tree hath no occasion to alter the native shape or figure of it in point of streightnesse because Nature it self had fitted it to his hand in this respect for such uses and purposes as these nay this man should do against himselfe if he should alter them In like manner they who seeke themselves in wayes and ends which contradict the lawfull peace and comforts of other men if withall they desire to have their proceedings countenanced and attested by the Scripture for just and good they must of necessity suborn them and make them speak what the holy Ghost never meant they should speak whereas those men who value not regard not themselves but in their order and due subordination and are willing to gird themselves and serve til God and men have first eaten and can be content with the reversions and broken meat of their table be they never so mean these men I say need not solicit or importune the Scriptures for their testimony or compliance with them in their way because their native inspiration from God leads them willingly yea rejoycingly yea triumphantly hereunto Such men should but prevaricate with themselves and their own ends if they should go about to make one haire of the head of the Scripture either black or white which the holy Ghost hath not made such to their hand Therefore whiles some men shall seeke to adorn their own names and reputations with the plunder and spoyls of other mens and lay the foundations of their owne greatnesse in the ruines of the lawfull comforts and peace of others there is no hope of a generall or through accommodation in matters of religion It is impossible that such men should comport with the truth in their way and consequently with those who embrace the truth Nor will any method of violence as either imprisoning fining crushing suppressing banishing cutting off by death or the like be able to advance that unity and accord which we al lust after though some in Gods way others in their own the very ghosts and shadows and memories of those that shal suffer in any of these kinds for conscience towards God will be as so many spirits of divisions dissentions and distractions amongst those that will chuse no other Arbitrators to comprimize their differences but the Sword and Blood Another signe of those Halcyon days approaching so much desired by us all wherin all gusts and winds storms of contrary doctrines opinions and Sects in religion shal be turned into a sweet calm of an universal unity and accord is this when Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers shall be no more turned into Councels Synods and secular Armes I mean when men shall be freely permitted without feare or danger of molestation to consult with the Apostles Prophets c. of what religion it were best for them to be without having their judgements emancipated forestalled and over-awed by the definitive and compulsory determinations and allowances of other men The reason hereof is because the writings of the Apostles Prophets Evangelists with the Ministery of faithfull Pastors and Teachers are sanctified and set apart by God for this very end and purpose namely the perfecting the Saints Ephes 4 13. c. till they all come into the unity of the Faith c. Therefore whilst Councels Synods c. shall intrude or step in as new Apostles Prophets and Evangelists of another order between those Apostles Prophets and Evangelists and those Pastors and Teachers which Christ hath given for the setling of an universall peace and unity throughout all the Churches of his Saints in due time to interrupt intercept them in their work and way so that they can never have the judgments consciences of men in their native ingenuity and freedome to work upon but still upon the disadvantage of Synodical impressions and forestallments partly with fear partly with favour partly with hope and conceit of the truth there is little hope of seeing the vision of joy and glory in the world I mean the Saints and Servants of Jesus Christ universally kissing and embracing one another in the armes of unity truth and peace It is in vain to wash in Abanah or Pharphar when onely the waters of Jordan are sanctified for the cure To commit adultery is not the way to increase though flesh and blood should determine for it They shall eate saith God and not have enough they shall commit adultery and not increase because they have left off to take heed unto the Lord that is because they had substituted their own wisdome and inventions in stead of his for bringing their desires and ends to passe Hos 4.10 Thirdly and lastly when the generality of men professing godliness and religion shall be content to furnish themselves with religion I mean with knowledge in religion by smaller parcels as the stock of their own judgements and understanding shall be able from time to time to accommodate thâ—m and shall make scruple of taking it up by whole sale from Synods Councels and Books only for ease and cheapness sake this also is as the putting forth of the Fig-tree which shewes the Summer of an universall accord amongst the Saints to be at hand The reason is because God hath promised and will perform accordingly that if men shall apply their heart to understanding and shall cry after knowledge and seek her as silver and search for her as for hid treasure they shall thâ—n understand the feare of the Lord and find the knowledge of God Prov. 2.2 3 4. But there is no promise made that they who to favour themselves and to gratifie the flesh and to save the labour of seeking and searching after knowledge shall take in the dictates and resolutions of men and call them knowledge and understanding without any more adoe shall either find the fear of the Lord or true knowledge of God Now till men shall generally find the fear of the Lord and the true knowledge of God which is not like to be out of that way which the promise of God mentioned hath sanctified thereunto there will be little hope of the generall meeting of men in the bond of peace as was formerly argued in another of these signes Fourthly and lastly when Christian States and men of soundest judgment greatest learning parts and abilities therein shal give free liberty to men look'd upon as opposite in judgment to the truth to publish and openly declare the grounds reasons of their judgments in each particular and not compell them either to keep them burning or glowing in their own breasts or else to propagate
and vent them privatly and amongst persons that have neither learning nor abilities in any kind to encounter or oppose them this is another hopefull signe that the dayes of a generall accommodation in matters of religion are comming upon the world The reason of this is plain because till truth reigne among the Saints Peace is not like to reigne the reason whereof hath been already given nor will Truth ever reigne like unto herself till all her enemies I mean errors and misprisions in matters of Religion be subdued and brought under her feet Nor is there any likelihood in a way of reason or ordinary providence that such enemies of the truth should ever be subbued til they come to look those sons of Truth in the face who are anointed by God with a spirit of wisdome and understanding for the confutation and utter abolishment of them Doubtlesse one main reason why errours and fond and foul opinions do still propagate prevail with so high an hand amongst us is because these Ministers and Teachers are suffered to have none other vent for them but only amongst people that are children in understanding and not furnished with strength of knowledge or parts of learning to withstand them The common proverb hath somwhat in it to this purpose Inter eaecos etiam luscus potest regnaâ—e A man with one eye will make a goodly King over those that are blind Reader the Preface hath done with thee and recommends thee to the Booke where it wisheth a happy greeting between thy judgment and the truth Chap. 1. Concerning the directive pâ—wer in mâ—tters Ecclesiasticall and which concern Religion whether how or in what sense it may be conceived to reside in the civill Magistrate Synods or other men Sect. 1. A. S. Pag. 5. hath this left-handed expression concerning the civill Magistrate That he arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of Religion The Reader must do hâ—m a courtesie in finding him out a very soft sense for the word arrogate otherwise he will be found in a misprision of a foul insinuation against the Civill Magistrate as viz. that he arrogates i. in the ordinary construction of the word proudly assumes to himself when he claims or exerciseth that executive coercive externall power in and about matters of Religion which yet A. S. himself in the very next page knowing on which side to butter his owne bread ascribes unto him For as he that should say of A. S. by way of commendation that he never corrupted a matron or woman in marriage should yet hereby reslect a shrewd suspition upon him that his innocency in this kind could not so well be avouched in respect of Virgins or others of that sex out of matrimoniall relation in like maner A. S. himself intending an honorable purgation or vindicatioÌ„ of the civil Magistrate in these words That he arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of Religion doth he not by the same rule of Antithetical relation or implication imply that he doth arrogate another power which stands in a Relative opposition to it which according to his own distribution is an executive coercitive external power in thout matters of religion but I marvel that the man should here so cleanly wipe the civil Magistrate of a di ective power in matters of Religion when as but a few pages before in his 8. Observ he had pleaded wisdome enough in the Parliament to know what is convenient for the Church of God If the Parliament be wise enough to know what is convenient for the Church I know no reason why that Directive power here spoken of should be derogated or taken from them especially by those who it is much to be feared are much straitned in respect of a spirit of that wisedome themselves Surely A. S. in saying that the Parliament is wise enough to know what is convenient for the Church hath sifted the Synod or Assembly with a sieve of vanity and broke the head of the necessity thereof so is guilty of a far higher misdemeanour against it then the Apologists are in any thing that they have done or said yea or then himself layeth to their charge which yet is his rod of scorpions to scourge them from place to place Turpe est Doctori cum culpa redarguit ipsum Sect. 2. But let us consider a little more narrowly whether A. S. hath quited himself like a Doctor of the Chaire in stripping the civill Magistrate of a Directive power in matters of Religion and putting on him in stead thereof the purple robe of an executive coercitive and externall power only pag. 6. 1. By such an umpirage and decision as this between the civill Magistrate and himself with his fellow Presbyters hath he not made the one Iudex and the other Carnifex the one must give the sentence the other must do the execution The Civil Magistrate is much beholding to the Presbyter for giving of him a consecrated sword to fight the Presbyterian battells and for perswading him to pull out his own eys upon this presumption that he shall see better with his I perceive Presbyterie is policy in the highest and seeks to put the Magistrate between it self and the envie and discontent of the people and yet nevertheless hopes to gain from the hand of the Magistrate such an interpretation of this practice as thereby to be esteemed the best and faithfullest friend it hath in all the world This cunning of the spirit we now speak of puts me in minde of the Ape that took the Spaniels foot to pull the Chess-nut out of the fire Surely the frame and constitution of Presbyterie is exactly calculated for the meridian of this present world but wâ—ether it will indifferently serve for that which is to come totus dubito I am in doubt all over And indeed A. S. himself is somwhat ingenuous in acknowledging that this government hath litle or no relation unto or compliance with the world which is to come professing p. 13. the externall peace of the Church to be the adaequate end thereof 2. I would gladly be informed whether A. S. thinks it reasonable Sect. 3. meet or Christian that the civill Magistrate should immediately hand over head without distinction without searching for his owne satisfaction into the equitablenesse and lawfulnesse of what a Presbyterie or Synod shall commend unto him for execution interesse himselfe in the execution of whatsoever shall be so recommended and presented unto him I presume A. S. will not arrogate unto himselfe nor to his Assembly an infallibilitie though in some places I find him very loath to abate this in the reckoning if it would be allowed and the truth is that the whole fabrique well-nigh of his discourse to make it rationall and any thing to purpose requires such a supposition for the bottom and foundation of it as this Yet pag. 8. he condescendeth so low as to number himselfe amongst those who
without the Church If it be replied No because that Church did implicitly consent in yeelding their Elders for members of that Presbytery We reply That if either your publick Law constrains that Church upon penalty Invitum dicitur quod quis vel per ignorantiam admittit Arist Eth. l. 3. c. 1. Kecker Praecog Syst Eth. against their light to suffer their Elders to fit in the Classicall Presbytery then that Church doth not freely consent or if that Church without constraint doth consent for want of light as it must be supposed if a Classis upon debate be found to be besides the word this ignorant act of that Church is an unwilling or involuntary act and so no free consent And so the Classis according to A. S. his distinction is like a Magistrate which is a Bishop without and about that Church But good A. S. we know it is an easie matter to distinguish the Magistrate into such an executive coercitive externall power as you speake of but we would fain see you demonstrate him into it and then A. S. and M. S. should be no more two but one S. We know not how to transform distinctions into demonstrations His second Distinction is of the Subject of this power the Magistrate whom he makes two-fold truly Christian and not truly Christian But 1. I would faine know by what Touchstone A. S. will try his gold in this case I mean judge of the truth of Christianitie in a Magistrate It appeares from page 50. of his discourse that he hath no mind to grant his truth of Christianity unto a Magistrate that is either Lutheran Anabaptist Socinian or Papist Any of these misprisions in Christianity are as sufficient in A. S. his judgement as in ours to keep the sword of that power we speake of out of the Magistrates hand And as for a Magistrate whose judgement shall be infected perfected reason and truth would say with Apologisme or the great hatred of his soule independencie I make no question but he in the Comique terme should bee exclusissimus from this capacitie or right above all the rest But let us goe on with the man in the termes of his own addresse to the Apologists Sect. 13. in the same place If he saith that by a Magistrate truly Christian he understand an orthodox Magistrate what if he had one or two errors would he yet permit him to be orthodox and truly Christian or not Till A. S. here specifies Seermones generales non movent his own shall make use of my reason to beleeve that by a Magistrate truly Christian A. S. onely mean a Magistrate who in his judgement is Presbyteriall and that this qualification of Presbyterialisme and truth of Christianitie in a Magistrate are against all contradictions and counter-poysings whatsoever termini aequipollentes in his Logique And if this be his meaning the king to be sure hath none of his power as yet in actu exercito and jure in re nor hath the Parliament at least for ought A. S. or the kingdom knoweth any whit more of it then the King And whatsoever it hath done hitherto by any executive coercive externall power about the Church or Church-affairs in which kinde it hath done very much depends as touching the validity and justifiableness of it upon this supposition that it Presbyterializeth Whence it followeth that he that cannot or doth not believe that the Parliament is of a Classique inclination cannot with the leave of A. S. his distinction judge them to have done lawfully or warrantably any thing that they have done hitherto about or for the Church The truth is that till A. S. will please to define what manner of Magistrate hee must be that shall pass the test of his distinction for truly Christian wee are constrained to suspend our bounty in conferring that executive coercive externall power about the Church upon any man Nor do I make much question but that wee shall have twenty Distinctions more before we shall obtain that Definition But of all the three distinctions here upon the stage Sect. 14. the best dancer is yet behind This Power or Authority saith he belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito jure in re it 's very long me thinks ere wee hear to whom it belongs to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato jure in rem only untill they become truly Christian 1. Though I have many times heard of the distinction in actu exercito in actu signato yet I never heard of any thing belonging to a person in actu exercito but that belonged to him and that per prius in actu signato Hee to whom the principle or power of acting doth not belong cannot stand ingaged for the exercise or acting of such a power 2. My soul longs for the Summer fruit of a good reason from A. S. Sect. 15. why any power about the Church and for the Church should not belong actually and in effect in actu exercito jure in re and with as many other proper unproper necessary unnecessary sober ridiculous expressions as he pleaseth as well to a Magistrate not yet truly Christian as to him that is such Hath not an Heathen or Heterodox Magistrate a lawfulness of power to do presently this day this hour to morrow and so forth toties quoties as much good to and for the Church or Churches of Christ within his jurisdiction or dominion as he could have if he were truly Christian Do acts of justice bounty grace towards the Churches of Christ any whit more defile a Magistrate how far from truly Christian soever then acts of the same nature performed unto his other subjects The Kings and those that were in authority in Pauls dayes were generally all the kings without exception far from being truly Christian and yet was it not lawfull for them to interpose with their Authority or Power that the Churches of Christ in their dominions might lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty If not then was that exhortation of his 1 Tim. 2.2 to be laid up in Lavender for some hundreds of yeers after it was given or else the benefit and blessing the obtaining whereof by prayer is made the ground of the exhortation must have been made over in the intentions of those that had so prayed unto their posterities after many generations A. S. may choose which of the two hee will believe for my part I shall not be his corrivall in either Yee have heard A. S. his Distinctions for a coercive power about the Church in a Civill Magistrate Demonstrationes autem ubi But where are his proofs Quas non invenio usquam esse puto nusquam What I finde not any where I believe to be no where I have searched Sect. 16. and that somewhat narrowly throughout the whole volume of his Discourse to finde something that with any indulgence of imagination might be
are our owne for the quenching of those flames of divisions and dissentions that are amongst us in matters of Religion we might in all likelihood see our desires in this behalfe many years sooner then by any other course we are like to do The word of God especially in the hand of an able Minister among other ends is given by God on purpose for the conviction and stopping of the mouths of gain-sayers Tit. 1.9 11. And therfore this will doe it when a thousand other meanes not having this anointing oyle upon them though never so plausible and promising in the eye of humane wisedome will rather open them yet wider then otherwise 2. It is the expresse order and command of God to Ministers of the Gospel upon whom chiefly it lies by way of office and duty Sect. 29. to instruct and convince gainsayers The servant of the Lord must not strive but be gentle unto all men apt to teach in meeknesse instructing those that oppose themselves if God peradventure wil give them repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth 2 Tim. 2 24.25 and men contrary-minded to the truth to performe these offices unto them with meeknesse and therefore not to threaten them with delivering them over to the Secular powers or to incite the civill Magistrate against them And if it bee not lawfull for the Minister to encourage or put on the civill Magistrate to use any externall violence or compulsion against such certainly it is not lawfull much lesse any point of duty for him to proceed in any such way against them And if such meeknesse be to be used towards those that are professed enemies to Christian Religion in the main of which the Scripture in the margine evidently speaketh much more is it to be shewed towards those who it may be are as cordially affected to this Religion as our selves onely dissenting from us in some apices or iota's of this Religion 3. Repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth being as we see a speciall gift of God and no man capable of it by his own industry or seeking it is very unreasonable that the want of it being in it selfe a judgement upon a man from God and withall no wayes prejudiciall or hurtfull unto others Sect. 30. at least not necessarily or unavoidably hurtfull unto any should expose him to further punishment and misery from men I conceive a reasonable man will think it very hard and unreasonable to punish a man for not doing of that which is onely proper and in the power of God to doe Externall compulsion in matters of Religion Sect. 31. is of a proper and direct tendencie to make men twofold more the children of sin and so of wrath then they were before or would be otherwise Now that which directly tends to increase sin and iniquity in a Land cannot bee lawful or from God Suppose the State-Religion and manner of worshipping God which the Magistrate practiseth and professeth be agreable to the truth yet if I having no such faith of either but judging in my soule and conscience that both State and Magistrate are polluted in both should make profession of either as the truth I should be a notorious hypocrite and dissembler before God and men wounding my conscience and condemning my selfe in what I allow in this case And yet such a profession as this is that which the compulsive power of the Magistrate seekes to extort from me In which case I must suffer because I will not sin to the ruine and destruction of my soule If it be objected That the intent of the Magistrates compulsion in this case is not to extort a profession from me against my judgement and conscience but to ingage me to rectifie and reforme my judgment according to the truth and so to make profession accordingly I answer First that I stand already ingaged by a farre greater band hereunto viz. my peace with God and the safety of my soule then suffering temporally from the Civill power Nor can it reasonably be here replied to me that many will doe more for feare of a present temporall punishment then of the future losse of their soules because they that will doe this will be ready enough to comply with the Magistrate in his Religion what ever it be without compulsion Secondly if the intent of the temporall compulsion bent against me be my engagement to rectifie my judgement according to the truth then to profess accordingly why is it discharged upon me before it be known whether I have not discharged such my engagements to the uttermost of my power and yet am not able to call that truth which the Magistrate would have me so to call Pro. 29.26 Many saith Solomon seek the face of the Ruler and who would not gladly second the Magistrate in his Religion if he had his judgement and conscience in his own hand or power 5. If the civill Magistrate hath an actuall coercive power to suppresse Schismes Heresies c. because he is truly Christian Sect. 32. which he had not before then truth of Christianity alters the property and tenour of Magistracie and that for the worse in respect of those that are in subjection to it yea and possibly in respect of the best of those that are in such subjection Before he was truly Christian he had saith A. S. and Presbyterians generally no power to punish fine imprison banish crush any of his Subjects for the exercise of their conscience towards God but by vertue of that great mercy vouchsafed unto him by God in giving him part and fellowshship with the Saints in Jesus Christ he is invested with a new power to persecute the Saints and to make them pay dearly for having consciences better it may be then his own at least better then to comply outwardly with what they cannot inwardly digest and approve If this be the case between a Christian and the Civill Magistrate under whom he lives he hath small incouragement to pray for the conversion of such a Magistrate to the truth in case he were for the present Heterodox or Pagan it being farre better for him to live under such a Magistracie which hath no power to mis-use him for his conscience sake then under that which hath yea and is made to beleeve that it ought to use it accordingly 6. That power is very dangerous for a Magistrate to own in the exercise whereof he may very easily and commonly doth run an hazard at least of fighting against God or of plucking up that which God hath planted or of pulling down that which God hath built up But is that power of suppressing Schismes Heresies c. which A. S. Cum multis aliis are very earnest to fasten upon him Ergo The Proposition I conceive is too much every mans sense and consent to be A. S. his dissent The Assumption I demonstrate by this reason Because those practices and opinions in Religion which the Magistrate is
whereas he addes in the close of this reason that the lesse the difference be the greater is the schisme and addes no more I marvell who he thinks will entertain such a saying the old Writ of Ipse dixit being out of date long agoe yet the saying somewhat confirms me in what I said before viz that the man knows not what belongs to a schism For doth he here by a schism understand anything that is sinful Then he makes the lesser difference from the truth to be a greater sin then a greater would be If his meaning be that the lesse materiall the ground or reason of any mans dissenting from a major part be the greater is his fault or sin in dissenting We answer that his Argument proceeds not onely a non concessis but also a non concedendis for to dissent from a major part though the grounds of a mans dissent be no matters of deep consequence yet if they be such wherein his judgement and conscience are not satisfied his dissent is no sin at all and consequently cannot be the greater sin Gnats must not be swallowed for any mans sake more then Camels His 5 reason answered To his fifth Reason we answer First that suppose God in the Old Testament granted no toleration of divers Religions or disciplines doth it follow from hence that you should grant none neither Dare you say in matters of knowledge authority and power Ero similis Altissimo you will be like the Highest Remember the fall of the son of the morning Will you set your threshold by Gods and compare with him for excellencie of knowledge or infallibilitie of discerning If you could assure us after the rate of a divine assurance that that Religion and Discipline which you would impose on us are in all points sound and justifiable in the sight of God we could much better beare the height of your indignation against a toleration of any discipline or opinions but your own Secondly though God granted no such toleration as you speak of in terminis yet he straightly prohibited all manner of violence oppression and hard measure among his people one towards another and in speciall manner charged it upon the consciences of the rich not to take any advantage of the povertie of their brethren to exact upon them enslave them and the like Though such Lawes as these in the letter of them respected onely civill transactions and dealings between men yet the equitie and spirit of them extends to spirituals also men being every whit as liable to violence oppression and hard measure from men for their conscience sake as in any other respects or upon any other grounds whatsoever Therefore in case there had been a minor party in that Nation that had been of a peculiar judgement by themselves about the sense and meaning of such or such a Law relating unto practice as Lawes generally doe in one kinde or other and so had dissented in this practice from the major part of their brethren in their Nation in case this major part had taken the advantage of their brethrens weaknesse and because they were fewer in number should have forc'd them against the light of their judgments to alter their practice or if they refused should have troden and trampled upon them or any wayes evill intreated them it had been as apparent a breach of the Laws we spake of as any oppression or violence in civill proceedings And the truth is that for men that are truly conscientious civill liberty as it is called i. freedome from illegall taxes impositions exactions imprisonments without libertie of conscience is an accommodation of little value yea without this such men are not capable of much ease or benefit by the other They are still in danger of being in trouble and molestation from the State for their conscience sake 3. Though God gave no such toleration as you speak of by a law yet he did actually tolerate for a long time together with much patience not onely a minor but a major part of the Jewish Nation in a manner the whole Nation and that not only in some opinions or practises which were disputably false or sinfull but even in such which were notoriously and unquestionably such 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Paul Act. 13.18 He suffered or tolerated their manners in the wildernesse fourtie yeares and afterwards in the land of Canaan many and many a yeare longer even till there was no remedy as the Scripture somewhere speaketh So then if you be willing to follow the practice and example of God an honour whereunto you seem to pretend in this Reason you must tolerate your brethren not onely in some opinions and practises which are dialectically and topically evill but even in those which are demonstratively such 4. And lastly whereas you adde that the New Testament requireth no lesse union among Christians then the old did amongst the Jewes we acknowledge the truth of what you say but the pertinencie of it to your purpose we yet desire Though the New Testament requires union amongst Christians and that very ardently and pressingly yet it doth not require him that is stronger to cudgell him that is weaker into the same opinion with him If you be of a better growth and stature in knowledge then we and comprehend such truths as wee doe not yet understand we are most willing as farre and as fast as meat and nourishment will doe it to grow up unto you onely we would not be rack'd or stretch'd to the same stature or proportion with you We shewed in our second Chapter what meanes the new Testament hath appointed and sanctified for the effecting of the unitie amongst the Saints which it requireth of them His 1. Reason answered For your sixt Reason so called wee can scarce see the face of a Reason in it You say that if your brethren do assent to your Doctrine and are resolved likewise to assent to your Discipline which shall be established by common consent they need no other toleration then the rest If your meaning be that in case they assent to your Doctrine and are resolved to assent to your Discipline viz. immediately and out of hand as soone as it comes from under the hammer and hath but the stamp of Presbyteriall Authoritie set upon it we are clearly of your mind and doe not conceive how or why they should need any other alteration then what others have Onely we somewhat marvell that you should so farre forget your selfe as to imply by this your expression that even your Presbyterian partie it selfe standeth in need of a toleration as well as ours Jam sumus ergo pares Truth I see is sometimes too quick and cunning for her adversaries But if your meaning be that a resolution in your Brethren the Apologists to assent to your Discipline viz. when and assoon as they can possibly satisfie themselves touching the lawfulnesse of it will exempt them from a necessitie of a Toleration