against Gods Truth I had thought M. Iewel that the doctrine whiche teacheth vs to obeye God more then menne were fulfilled rather by suffering the penaltie of mans lawe or wil being contrarie to Goddes Lawe and wil then by resisting man put in authoritie by God as S. Peter who wrote the foresaid wordes suffered scourging Act. 5. contumelies and emprisonment rather then he would obey the Magistrate commaunding him not to preache nor teache in the name of Iesus If the prince commaunde Heresie or Idolatrie the waie to obey both God and the Prince is to keepe thee from yelding to Heresie or committing of Idolatrie and for Goddes sake to susteine the pounishment what soeuer the Prince putteth vpon the breakers of his commaundement For it is two thinges and much different to obey the Prince in an vnlawful request and to take Armes against the Prince Round capped Ministers Both we God be praised for the Catholike faith and your Rounde capped Ministers for their Cappes and Hattes refuse to obey the Quenes Maiesties commaundement The Prīce not to be obeied by M. Iewels Diuinitie vvhen Gods cause is touched touching matters of conscience bicause we knowe right wel and they pretende to thinke also that by suche commaundement of the Prince Goddes glorie is touched In whiche case you saie M. Iewel the Prince is not to be obeyed Yet God be praised neither we nor they doo take Armes or attempte any force against our Prince as these Nobles of Scotland haue done We haue not so learned S. Peters lesson We haue not so learned to obeye God more then man But we doo rightly iudge and protest such demeanure to be an open disobediēce both to God and to man And yet saie you M. Iewel and that in your booke dedicated for a singular present vnto the Quenes most excellent Maiestie that these Nobles of Scotland had learned S. Peters lesson Tel vs in good sooth if the Catholike Nobilitie and Commons of England who take your heresies to be against Gods truthe as they are in deede shoulde deale with the Quenes Maiestie for matters of Religion whiche God forbid as the Nobles of Scotland haue dealte with their liege Soueraine would you defende their so doing by S. Peter and the prophete Dauid and saie that God is more to be obeyed then man I perceiue you are so selfe willed and so addicted to your faction that if you were a Papiste you would doo no lesse and be as ready to helpe suche a matter forwarde in England as Beza your good brother in Fraunce as the Gues here in the lowe Countries and as Knox in Scotland haue benne But we openly protest before God and the worlde that we condemne and defie al such attemptes I meane that any Subiecte or Subiectes what so euer of their owne priuate authoritie should take Armes against their Prince for matters of Religion This we doo teache to be plaine disobedience bothe to God and to the Prince This haue your Nobles of Scotland done more then once And therefore you haue done vntruely and lewdly I wil not saie traiterously to the preiudice of the Quenes Maiesties owne safetie in defending them and in calling their outragious attemptes suche obedience as S. Peter taught which was suche Treason and Rebellion as S. Paule condemneth Rom. 13. saying Let euery soule be subiecte to the higher powers c. The Doctours whom you allege make clearely against those Nobles Leo de passione Domini Serm. 10. whose rebellion you defende Leo saith To geue vnto Caesar that whiche is Caesars is not to rebel against Caesar but to helpe Caesar But your Nobles rebelled against their Prince Ergo they gaue not that to Caesar whiche was Caesars Againe the Christians of whom S. Ambrose speaketh Ambrosius lib. 5. Epist 33. said to the Emperour Rogamus Auguste non pugnamus we beseche thee Noble Emperour we fight not But your Nobles fought against their Prince they humbly besought not their Prince And yet ô extreme impudencie these places you allege to shewe the obedience of those Nobles After this as thoughe al the eares of Englande were stopped and their wittes bewitched you conclude in this wise Iewel pag. 17. To conclude the Queene of Scotland is stil in quiet possession of her estate Harding And what wil you sticke to saie or write M. Iewel whiche doo saie write and set out in printe suche a palpable and manifest falsehod Suche I saie as euen the very Tankerdbearers of London and al others of the basest sorte besides can witnesse against you What was not the Queene of Scotland of late imprisoned in her owne realme And had she not benne in prison long before your booke came forth And is a Prince cast in prison by his owne Subiectes stil in quiet possession of his estate What wil you make vs beleeue that the Reuerend Fathers the old and only true Bishoppes of our countrie are nowe stil in quiet possession of their Bishoprikes whom al England knoweth to haue susteined emprisonment these eight yeres and more for their constant profession Gods holy name be blessed of Gods Truthe Goe M. Iewel and tel this tale in the new founde Ilandes of India For not only al England but al Fraunce Spaine Germanie Italie yea as it maie be thought a good parte of Turkie it selfe can controlle you of this most infamous lye that the Queene of Scotland is stil in quiet possession of her estate God keepe you and your brethren in suche a quiet possession if ye wil teache the truthe no better then in this Princes daies ye haue taughte Yet you adde farther and saie of the Quene of Scotland Iewel Ibidem And shee is obeied of her subiectes as farre as is conuenient for godly people to obey their Prince Harding Lo a Quene being the right prince of a realme violently and besides al order of law by her subiectes thrust out of her roial estate is yet obeied of her subiectes so farre as is conuenient for godly people to obey their Prince Then by your doctrine M. Iewel it is conuenient for godly people violently to bereue their prince of princely estate if they like not his Religion and yet in so doing they obey Let vs suppose halfe a realme to be Catholiques whom ye cal Papistes halfe Protestantes Shal the Papistes depose their Protestant Prince shal the Protestant Subiectes depose their Papist Prince If ye teache not this what is that ye teache Are not you nowe one of them that teache Subiectes to take Armes against their Prince Thus muche and more whiche I omitte haue you said of the Quene of Scotland and yet how promised you that you woulde saie nothing Truely it had benne better for you and more for your honestie to haue said nothing in deede and to haue dissembled the whole matter as you haue done many other special matters and suche as be of greatest importance in my Confutation then thus to haue bewraied your traiterous
lyes and gloses and also an vnprofitable bestowing of good time Iewel They are gonne from Faith to infidelitie from Christe to Antichrists Harding Which they M. Iewel Did he speake of the Popeâ—… of Rome M. Ievvel odiously layeth that to the Bishops of Rome vvhiche vvas spoken generally by vvaie of coÌ„plaint of al euil ChristiaÌ„s You say touching the Church of Rome c. And yet now you bring forth that which was generally spoken and that by waie of complaint of al euil Christians and not namely of the Bisshops of Rome Againe how are they gonne from faith to infidelitie and from Christ to Antichrist Verely bicause they are gonne froÌ„ God to Epicure that is to say bicause many of them liue as if they had neither faith nor Christ nor God Last of al he saith not they are gonne as you falsifie his wordes but with a moderation would God they were not gonne He sheweth him selfe to feare lest they be gonne he taketh not vpon him boldly to affirme it as you doo Iewel And yet al other thinges failing they must holde onely by Succession and only bicause they sit in Moyses Chaire they must claime the possession of the vvhole This is the right and vertue of their Succession Harding Is it not reason if secular men hold their kingdomes landes goodes and rightes by Succession yea when al other rightes forces and vertues faile that Gods Ministers if they had nothing els leaft should hold stil their owne also by Succession It is wel knowen that the Bishops of Rome haue more then only Succession For they make good Decrees they geue answer to great consultations they cal General and Prouincial Councelles they execute the Canons of them and send forth Preachers as of late they haue done euen vnto the new found Indies beside many other godly and vertuous actes which they exercise for the saluation of their own soules and of the people But what if they had nothing but Succession Would you then haue men forsake their folde and Church Did Isaias so did Esdras so did Iudas Machabeus so did Zacharias so did S. Iohn Baptist so Can you deuise the Popes to be worse then Caiphas or the Pharisees Math. 23. And yet Christ willed them to be obeied albeit they had litle els beside Succession It is this Succession M. Iewel which shal lie in your and in your companions waie at the dredful day of accompte It shal not be demaunded of euery man why he studied not the Scriptures which most men haue not learned to reade But it shal be demaunded why they haue no faith nor charitie No faith by forsaking the open and knowen Succession no charitie by breaking vnitie Euery man seeth Succession ignorance can not be pretended and euery man shal be iudged by it concerning his Faith Iewel The vvordes of Tertullian M. Harding vvhich you haue here alleged vvere spoken of certaine your ancient fathers that had raised vp a nevv religion of them selues as you haue also done vvithout either vvorde of God or example of the Apostles and holy fathers Harding It is happy that at the length Here at length M. Ievvel beginneth to ansvver my vvordes but how consider you beginne to answere my wordes We shal now see how wel you touche Tertullians meaning You say his wordes were spoken of certaine my ancient Fathers That can not be so For none are in this behalfe my fathers but those who loue wel the Succession of Bishops But Tertullian spake of those De Prascription aduersus Haret that esteemed the Succession of Bishops as litle as you do And therefore they are your fathers of whom he speaketh that is to say they are Heretikes of whom he speaketh For in dede no heretike can abide Succession bicause they would faine iustle out the olde Succession to schuffle in their new Intrusion You say the men of whom Tertullian speaketh raised vp a new Religion of them selues and therein you say truth You adde as I also haue donne but therein you belye me for ye are not hable to laye any one point of doctrine to my charge wherein I follow not that old Succession which abhorreth al new Religion Let al the worlde iudge who raiseth vp a newe Religion you or I. You say the Heretiques of who Tertullian spake raised vp a new Religion without the Worde of God example of the Apostles or of holy Fathers If you meane without the true meaning of Gods worde you say truth and then you also are without Gods worde bicause you are without the Church whereunto Gods worde with the true interpretation thereof was geuen and we are not without it bicause we conteine our selues within the Churche But if you meane that these heretikes did not sounde the wordes of the Scriptures in their lippes as falsely and withal as fast as you doo then you say not truly For Tertullian in that booke doth shew that the Heretikes also appealed to the Scriptures Tertullian in Prascript aduersus haeret and he answered that to striue with heretiques vpon the scriptures was a thing of vncertaine victorie bicause one saith it is not holy Scripture an other saith it is holy Scripture one saith it is meant thus an other saith it is â—â—â—â—t otherwise But saith Tertullian the interpretation of the Scriptures belongeth to them It booteth not to striue vvith heretiques about the Scriptures who haue the true faith and he concludeth that they haue the true faith who haue the perpetual Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne daies Scripturas obtendunt hac sua audacia statim quosdam mouent The Heretiques pretende to bring Scriptures for them selues and with that their impudencie forthwith they shake some And afterward Ibidem Ergo non ad scripturas prouocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum certa Therefore we must not alwaies appeale vnto the Scriptures neither must we striue about them in which either no victorie at al or an vncertaine or verely not very certaine victorie is obteined Then sheweth he that heretikes of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures but onely the Catholiques Heretiques of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures TertulliaÌ„ Ibidem to whom the Apostles deliuered them and not them only but other thinges also viua voce by mouth and worde without writing Si hac ita sunt constat proinde omnem doctrinam quae cum illis Ecclesiis Apostolicis matricibus et originalibus fidei conspiret veritati deputandam reliquam verò omnem doctrinam de mendacio praeiudicandam quae sapiat contra veritatem Ecclesiarum Apostolorum Christi Dei. If this be so then is it euident that al such doctrine as agreeth with those that are the Apostolique Churches the mother Churches and the original Churches of the faith is to be taken for true and that al other
al to be folowed in your deedes For he that dissenteth from you Doctrine is either an Heretique or a Schismatique These wordes being wel and duely considered of I reporte me to thine indifferent iudgement discrete Reader what M. Iewel can seme to any wise man to haue wonne by Iohannes Sarisburiensis He accuseth the vices of the Romaine Clergie and of some Popes them selues We also accuse the same Their euil deedes be not to be folowed saith he We saie the same and praie God to amende them Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Church of Rome said the people in his time Were it true yet were they to be obeied touching doctrine and to be beleeued bicause they sate in the Chaire of Peter as Christ cōmaunded the Scribes and Pharisees of the Iewes to be obeied and thinges to be done and kepte whiche they said bicause they succeeded Moyses and sate in Moyses Chaire Howbeit what the people of Rome of Italie and of Germanie said of the Pope at that time it ought the lesse to be regarded bicause they spake vpon grudge conceiued against him the Romaines Platina in vita Hadriani ◠for that as Platina witnesseth he denied them their ernest request which was that they might liue freely vnder the gouernement of the Consulles and be exempted from their subiection to the Church the Italians and Germains for that they were muche vexed with warres by William the King of Sicilia and Frederike the firste Emperour from whiche vexation and troubles they saw they should haue benne deliuered if the Pope woulde haue benne content to suffer the Landes of the Churche to be inuaded and taken awaie by those Princes Euen so in these daies the Popes be the worse spoken of and finde the lesse good wil at many mennes handes in some partes of Christendome bicause they can not be induced to allow and confirme the possession of certaine ecclesiastical Landes which haue ben taken frō the Church by vnlawful meanes in such wise as they them selues would haue it allowed and confirmed To be short agree with vs M. Iewel vnto the doctrine which the Church of Rome teacheth where the Succession is certaine wherunto your owne doctor Ioannes Sarisburiensis leadeth you and we wil agree with you in reprouing the vices and faultes of that See the proufe of which for a great part of them for ought ye can shewe is vncertaine Would God ye would once consider how sclender and weake the Argumentes ye make against the catholique Faith are which alwaies ye deduce à moribus ad doctrinam that is from reproufe of manners to the reproufe of doctrine Iewel Pag. 132. This is M. Hardings holy succession though faith faile yet Succession must holde Harding Nay syr Succession doth holde that faith maye not faile For you haue not proued by any one example that faith did euer faile in the Churche of Rome In the Church I saye which consisteth of the Pope and of a college and an assemblie of graue Bishops and priestes professing them selues the faith and teaching it others In that open assemblie neuer was there false religiō decred or taught whereas so many heresies haue ben not fewer then a hundred and so many Archeheretikes of whom some haue ben in the other Patriarchal Sees but in Rome neuer was there an Archeheretike or any Pope who in Councel or Consistorie decreed or confirmed any heresie to be admitted To him that knoweth the ecclesiastical histories and conferreth the See of Rome with al other Churches it is such a miracle as therby God hath witnessed that Succession to be the Rocke of the faith In so much that the Bishops of the prouince of Tarracon in Spaine wrote thus vnto Pope Hilarius In Tom. 1. Concil epist 2. Ad fidem recurrimus Apostolico orè laudatam inde responsa quaerentes vnde nihil errore nihil praesumptione sed pontificali totum deliberatione praecipitur We resort vnto the faith praysed by the mouth of the Apostle seeking answers from thence whence nothing is commaunded by errour nothing by presumption but al by bishoply deliberation Iewel For vnto the succession God hath bound the holy Ghost Harding No but vnto the holy Ghost The holy Ghost causeth the Successiō to abide faithful God hath bound the Succession For he causeth the Succession to abide faithful bicause he causeth it to follow the inspiration of the holy Ghost that it may so be knowen for euer certainly true in the chiefe Apostles Chaire and in the fellowship abiding with him Christ saith he that heareth you Luc. 10. heareth me I am with you al dayes vntil the worldes ende Math. 28. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Luc. 22. and thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethern feede my sheepe Ioan. 21. feede my lambes I wil beseeche my father Ioan. 14. and he shal geue you an other conforter that he remaine with you for euer 16. the spirite of truth he shal teach you al thinges and al truth The Romaine faith is preached in the whole worlde Roma 1. Iewel For lacke of this Succession for that in our Sees in the Churches of England vve find not so many Idolatours Necromancers Heretikes Aduouterers Churcherobbers Periured persones Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as vve may easily finde in the Church of Rome therefore I trovve M. Harding saith vve haue no Succession vve are no Bishops vve haue no Church at al. Harding Your Church of England hath yet scant continued so many weekes as the Churche of Rome hath continued yeres But if it had passed ouer such times of persecution as Rome hath if it had ben so assaulted by al sortes of enemies as wel within as without as wel with prosperitie as aduersitie I trow your Church would haue had before this as many Idolatours Necromancers Heretiques Aduouterers and such others by you named as the Church of Rome hath had Bishops And certainely already it hath had mo sortes of Heretikes and that within these xx yeres then Rome hath had euen by your owne accompte euil men within these fiften hundred yeres Idolatrie annexed vnto Heresie For your beginning progresse and the whole profession of your life is nothing but heresie whereunto Idolatrie is euermore annexed For an heretike doth alwaies worship his owne conceit and phantasie for truth and whereas God is truth he worshippeth his phantasie for God which is Idolatrie If the pope committed any faulte by frailtie he defended it not as you mainteine in open pulpites the breache of laudable and godly vowes and the marriages of consecrated persons who haue absteined from marriage euer since the Apostles tyme whose marriages saith S. Hierome be not so much Aduouteries Aduersus Iouin li. 1. as Inceste But in the number of mo then two hundred Popes within fiften hundred yeres you haue falsely numbred sixe or seuen as Heretikes whereas you can not denie but there haue ben in the same
greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
Ye are like to whitted Sepulchres Matth. 23. Liers euil beastes slow bellies Tit. 1. God shal strike thee thou painted wal said S. Paule to Ananias Act. 23. O ye foolishe Galathians Galat. 3. False Apostles guileful workers 2. Cor. 11. The enemies of the Crosse of Christe whose bellye is their God Philip. 3. O ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in hartes and eares ye haue euer resisted the holy Ghost said S. Steuen vnto the Iewes Act. 7. As Iannes and Iambres withstode Moyses so these withstand the truth 2. Tim. 3. Hye minded proude blasphemous Ibidem Their worde creapeth forth like a canker 2. Tim. 2. Their tong is ful of deadly poison Iacob 3. These Dreamers defile the flesh despise rulers and speake euil of them that are in auctoritie Iudae As beastes whiche are without reason Woe be vnto them For they haue folowed the way of Cain and are vtterly geuen to the errour of Balaam for lucres sake and perish in the treason of Chore. Ibidem Why tempte ye me ye Ypocrites said Christe Matth. 22 Wo be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees Ypocrites Mat. 23 Wo be vnto you blinde guides Ibid. O ye fooles and blinde Ibid. Ypocrite first caste out the beame out of thine owne eye and then c. Matth. 7. It were not harde Christian Reader here to lay forth a greater heape of wordes gathered out of the Scriptures which M. Iewel reproueth in me as vncourteous and vnciuile and proceding altogether of choler But these few may suffice for shewe that if we consider wordes only and not the Circumstance of the sentence and the iuste cause why they were with such vehemencie vttered the holy Ghoste may seme also chargeable of vncourteous and vnciuile speache by whose prompting the Scriptures of God haue ben written If the matter of M. Iewels greuous accusation depende of wordes considered in them selfe onely the Scriptures haue wordes that being put a parte sownde more roughly then any yet by the written or by him noted And so farre is that pretensed fault in both Testamentes nolesse then in my bookes But if al be to be weighed by the sentences wherein suche woordes be placed and by the deserte of them in whose reproufe they be vttered as reason is it should then I appeale to al men of iudgement the dew circumstances and causes wel considered whether I haue at any time passed the bowndes of a zealous defender of the Catholique Religion whereof I make profession That the vse of sharpe speache is conuenient according to the desert of M. Iewel and of his felowes LEt the rehersal of my whole sentences with their circumstance in whiche the wordes be founde that doo so much offend be differred vntil anonne And here to turne thy tale vnto you M. Iewel and vnto your felowes lette it be lawful for me to come vnto the causes by whiche I was iustly moued so to write and to the very thinges them selfe for which ye deserue so to be written of The oddes betwixte M. Ievvel and them of his side and vs. and with such courtesie of wordes to be greeted Who be you M. Iewel and who be they of your side Who am I or rather who are we For of my selfe I am content no accompte be made but only as I apply myne endeuour to defende the Churche and the Catholique Faith by you impugned As for vs say the worst ye can of vs we are Catholiques By your owne confession your doctrine hath not benne in al Churches at al times taught and therefore ye haue tolde vs we knowe not what of your Church that it is inuisible secret vnknowen and lurketh in corners no man can tel where and therefore ye are not Catholique We remaine in that we haue receiued ye are departed from that ye receiued The doctrine for whiche ye make suche sturre is it not openly knowen to al from what men ye had it and how late ye learned it Where was this fifth Gospel so muche as whispered in any knowen corner of the worlde before that lewd Augustine Frier Martin Luther brake his vowe ranne out of his Cloister and yoked him selfe to his wanton Nonne Where was your Sacramentarie doctrine preached before Frier Huskin that new named him selfe Oecolampadius likewise brake his solemne promise to God forsooke his Religion and coupled him selfe to a young yoke fellowe Before their time who heard the sownde of your Gospel Where had ye any Dioces any Bishoppe any Church any Priest any Chappel any so much as a Parrish Clerke in the whole worlde Tel vs not as ye are woont of Wiklef Huss Ierome of Prague Berengarius Bertram and a few other which were but byles and botches in the Churche and be in no wise worthy the name of Churche Forgete not what you say in your Apologie that Luther and Zuinglius came first to the Gospel Remember ye cal that time the first appearing the spring and the first grasse as it were of your Gospel If it be so how be ye Catholique or how be ye of the Catholique Churche which is so called in respecte of the vniuersalitie of times Vincētius Lirinen places and personnes As for vs on the otherside we are hable to shew you the continuance of our faith and Doctrine by orderly successions of Bishops going vpward euen from those learned and holy Fathers whom for none other cause but only for the Catholique Faith of Christes Churche most vniustly ye kepe in Prison to S. Gregorie who sent godly Preachers to conuert the English people of our countrie vnto the Faith of Christe and from S. Gregorie further vpward vnto S. Peter and S. Paule that preached the Faith in Rome and consequently vnto Christe him selfe If we would speake vnto you in the person of the Catholique Church whereof we are a parte we might say vnto you those wordes of Tertullian spoken to Heretiques Mea est possessio olim possideo prior possideo Tertul. li. Praescript aduersus haereticos habeo origines firmas ab ipsis authoribus quorum fuit res Ego sum haeres Apostolorum The Scripture and the right sense of the Scripture is my possession I am in possession of olde I claime possession by former right The Churche continueth to the worldes ende vvithout al intermission Matt. 28 Iohan. 14 I haue the assured originals from the first authours by whom it was set forth It is I that am the Apostles heire The Churche M. Iewel as ye ought to knowe continueth from Christes Ascension vnto the ende of the worlde without intermission and without exception of any age or yeres Wil ye haue vs proue it What can we say if ye wil not beleeue Christe nor God him selfe I wil be with you saith Christe al daies vnto the ende of the worlde Againe I wil beseche my Father and he shal geue you an other conforter to remaine with you for euer the Spirite of truthe whiche the worlde can not receiue God saith to Christe in
yours as the Arians had the names of that of Ariminum and certaine other Councelles holden by the Arians Your heresies God be praised haue not yet prospered so much that ye might haue hundreds of Bishoppes to assemble and determine on your side as the Arians had Therefore againe your case is very vnlike and your example of S. Augustine and the Arian very vneuen When you haue Councelles on your fitlâ— that shal make for the proufe of your Doctrine and for condemnation of our Doctrine then maye this place of S. Augustine seeme to serue your purpose Last of al your accustomed legierdemaine in citing this place openeth your falshood For in the sentence immediatly going before the wordes by you alleged S. Augustine professeth plainely the authoritie of the Nicene Councel to haue ben sufficient for conuincing of the Arian heretike Thus he saith Hoc est illud Homusion Lib. 3. ca. 14. contra MaximinuÌ„ ArianuÌ„ quod in Concilio Niceno aduersus haereticos Arianos à Catholicis patribus veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum est This is that Doctrine concerning Homusion whiche in the Councel of Nice was confirmed against the Arian heretiques with the Authoritie of Truthe and with the Truthe of Authoritie S. Augugustine falsly alleged by M. Ievv vvordes of chiefe importaÌ„ce quite lefte out Sed nunc Streight after it foloweth Sed nunc nec ega c. But now at this present neither wil I laye against thee c. as before you alleged it These wordes Sed nunc But nowe whiche importe the doing of S. Augustine to haue ben but for that present time and occasion and doo shewe that he meant not generally to renounce the Nicene Councel those wordes I saie M. Iewel you quite leafte out alleging S. Augustines wordes in such sorte as if he had peremptorily and precisely protested that the Arian had ben no more bounde to the Authoritie of the Nicene Councel then he him selfe was bounde to the Councel of Ariminum Whereas both before he plainely protested that the Catholike Fathers of the Nicene Councel had determined against the Arian heretiques veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate By authoritie of Truth and by truthe of Authoritie and also in this later saying restrained him selfe only to the time present for cause beforâ— mencioned O how would that blessed Father be agreeued if now he were a liue and sawe his sayinges so peruersly wrested to a sense by him neuer meant nor intended and that drawen to mainetenance of heresie wherein he relented for better meanes to be had towardes the Confutation of heresie In what credite and estimation S. Augustine had General Councelles The 20. Chapt. Howbeit this blessed Father touching the credite and authoritie of lawful Councelles not only in this present place as it now appeareth but also in others of his workes hath written so circumspectly and warely that excepte heretiques were of very purpose and mere wilfulnesse sette to peruerte the truthe they coulde neuer haue piked out of his sayinges so muche as any colour of aduantage to the preiudice of Councelles Contrarywise to the aduauncement of their credite and estimation he writeth in sundry places Verely to the Donatistes being confuted and conuinced by a great Assemblie of the Aphrican Bishoppes August epist 152. Ad populuÌ„ factionis Donatiaâ—a he saith Nulla excusatio iam remansit Nimium dura nimium diabolica sunt hominum corda quae adhuc tantae manifestationi veritatis obsistunt There remaineth now no excuse The hartes of menne are too too harde and too too deuilish whiche doo yet withstande the truth so clearely opened vnto them How much better may we saie this vnto you and your companions M. Iewel whose heresies haue ben detected and learnedly confuted in the late General Councel of Trent vnto the whiche out of al Catholique Countries of Christendome Bishopes and the best learned menne were assembled Againe disputing against the errour of S. Cyprian touching the rebaptizing of such as heretiques had baptized in the ende he concludeth with the Authoritie of a General Councel and protesteth that he him selfe would not haue ben so bolde as in such sorte to confute that holy Fathers opinion excepte he had had the General Councel on his side These are his wordes August de Baptismo coÌ„tra Donatist li. 2. cap. 4. Nec nos ipsi tale aliquid auderemus asserere nisi vniuersae Ecclesiae concordissima authoritate firmati cui ipse sine dubio cederet si iam illo tempore quaestionis huius veritas eliquata declarata per plenarium ConciliuÌ„ solidaretur Neither should we be so bolde as to affirme so much but that we are assuredly vpholden with the authoritie of the most vniforme consent of the vniuersal Church To the which S. Cyprian him selfe would vndoubtedly haue yeelded if at that time the truth of this question being boulted out and made cleare had benne by a ful general Councel established In like manner he vrgeth the Pelagians saying August CoÌ„tra Iulianum .li. 3. cap. 1. Vestra verò apud competens Iudicium communiuÌ„ episcoporum causa modò finita est Nec amplius vobiscuÌ„ agenduÌ„ est quantuÌ„ ad ius examinis pertinet nisi vt prolataÌ„ de hac re sententiaÌ„ cuÌ„ pace sequamini Quòd si nolueritis a turbulenta vel seditiosa inquietudine cohibeamini Your matter is now ended by sufficient iudgemeÌ„t of Bishops from al partes Neither ought we now to haue further dealing with you as touching right of examination to be made but now it behoueth that yâ— folowe peacebly the verdite whiche hath 〈◊〉 pronounced of this matter And if ye wil not yet that ye be restrained from al troblesome and seditious disorder August Epist 118. ad Ianuarium Last of al speaking of General Councelles he saith Quorum est in Ecclesia saluberrima authoritas their Authoritie in the Churche is most holsome And bicause M. Iewel findeth him selfe agreeued witâ— the later Councelles and is offended with the newnesse of them and claimeth by former Councels and preteÌ„deth to folow the Apostles owne Traditions let vs see what S. Augustine of whom he would so faine borow helpe if it would be wil saie for him Whereas the Donatistes for their rebaptizing of such as the Catholiques had baptized alleged th' Apostles Tradition and neglected a late General CouÌ„cel assembled against their opinion holding vpon a more auncient Tradition euen such as came from the Apostles to them in this case S. Augustine saith thus Nec quisquam dicat August li. 4. cap. 7. de Baptis coÌ„tra Donatistas quod accepimus ab Apostolis hoc sequimur Quatò robustiuo nuÌ„c dicimus Quod ecclesiae coÌ„suetudo semper tenuit quod haec disputatio dissuadere noÌ„ potuit et quod plenariuÌ„ Concilium coÌ„firmauit hoc sequimur Neither let any man saie as the Donatistes said and as Protestantes now saie we folowe that which we haue
written if you had not changed the honest worde blame whiche I vsed The honeste vvorde blame by M. Ievvel charged into the filthy vvorde handle into the worde of vnhonest meaning handle whiche you would haue men beleeue that I vsed how should there haue risen of my wordes any opinion of il meaning Verely M. Iewel in your alteration of my wordes and placing in the steede of the worde blame the worde handle that seemed to you to serue better for your filthy purpose to disgrace myne honestie if you coulde there appeareth an euident argument both of false and also of malicious dealing Your very frendes must needes mislike with you if they haue any honestie for this your vnhonest handling You are neuer hable to auoide it cast vpon it what colours you can What woulde you sticke to speake of me were I dead that are not ashamed thus to belie me being a liue and occupied in shewing to the worlde with what impudent lyes ye blotte your papers Yet of al your foule shiftes this is one of the fowlest and such as in common persons is called you know what I am a shamed to speake it you are not a shamed to plaie the parte The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 1. Diuision 2. Pag. 90. VVe beleeue that the holy Ghost vvho is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not created not begotten but proceding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto man and vnspeakeable c. Confutation Cōfut fol. 41. b As we acknowledge this article to be true and Catholike so we demaunde of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most authoritie We are sure they haue not Therfore we doo them to vnderstand that if they heare vs not we aduertise the Readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truthe necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other Councelles be to be receiued besides the foure firste whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * Left out by M. Ievvel as that wherein this point touching the Proceding of the holy Ghoste hath benne defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Church when vpon a new doubte rising an olde Truthe is by later publications declared c. * Iewel Pag. 90. Consider M. Harding notvvithstanding ye euermore tel vs of Fathers Fathers yet hovv contrary oftentimes ye are in iudgement to the same Fathers You saie that the Godhed of the holy Ghoste can not be proued by expresse vvordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye say ye are right sure Harding That M. Iewel is not able to proue by Scripture certaine truthes whiche with the Catholiques he teacheth touching the holy Ghoste What folie is in frowardnesse The. 3. Chapt. it appeareth by M. Iewels trauaile to proue the Godhed of the holy Ghoste by Scriptures which I neuer denied nor euer gaue him such issue to proue But where he confesseth a Trinitie and that the holy Ghost is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie whiche holy Ghost also he confesseth to proceede from the Father and the Sonne though al these partes be true and Catholique yet I saie he is neuer hable to proue any of these pointes by any expresse wordes of the Scriptures Thinges beleeued and yet not expressely writen in Scripture Where can he finde this worde Trinitie in this signification in al Scripture Where hath he this worde Person in this signification in any place of the Scripture Where hath he in any expresse wordes of the Scripture that the holy Ghoste proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne Or where hath he in al the Scripture that the holy Ghost is rather the thirde Person in Trinitie then the seconde These are the pointes that M. Iewel is charged to proue by expresse wordes of Scripture and not that the Holy Ghoste is God The word Transubstantiatiō abhorred bicause it is not foūd in scripture expressely The worde Transubstantiation they abhorre bicause it is no where founde expressely in Scripture and yet they acknowledge the worde Trinitie and the worde Person both First Seconde and Thirde though these wordes be no where founde expressely in these significations in the whole bodie of the Scriptures So can these craftie Iuglers and false peruerters of Goddes truthe doo when they be disposed changing them selues into al manner colours like the beast Chameleon excepte the colour of good meaning and plaine dealing into whiche for any long time they can not change them selues Iewel Pag. 93. I trust Gentle Reader thou vvilt not looke I should ansvver al M. Hardinges ordinarie idle talke So should I loose good time vvithout cause and be ouer troublesome to thine eares O saith he what a world is it to see these Defenders They whiche haue not kepte the Vnitie of spirite in the bande of Charitie whiche S. Paule requireth but haue seuered them selues from the body of the Churche tel vs now forsooth they beleeue that there is one Churche of God O M. Harding if vve haue herein saide il then beare vvitnesse of the il If vvee haue saide vvel vvherefore make you this bitter outcries c. Harding The Protestantes claime by the great visible Churche and by the litle inuisible Churche as it serueth best their turne O M. Iewel if your saying and doctrine were one The. 4. Chapt. I would neuer reprehend you but when you say one thing openly an other thing priuily and haue diuers pointes of secrete Doctrine contrarie the one to the other when ye are driuen to the straightes as now claiming by an inuisible Churche no where appearing many hundred yeres together whiche to say the truthe is no Churche at al and now by your great visible Churche spred abrode in al kingdomes when ye haue made your packe what is this in effecte but in woordes for the time to sette foorth your beleefe of one Churche gloriously and when time wil not beare out this gaie glorious Confession of yours then as your manner is to runne to Corners to seeke some comforte of an vnknowen Inuisible Churche where both the Ministers the preachers the Sacramentes the people and their whole life are al together inuisible In the saying wherof what doo ye elles but vtterly denie that one Churche which ye ought to Confesse Iewel Pag. 93. VVe say See Reader hovv vvel this ghear is proued M. Harding fol. 25. a. that our Doctrine and the Order of our Churches is elder then yours by fiue hundred vvhole yeres and more If ye vvil not beleeue vs yet beleeue M. Harding he vvil tel you euen the same Marke vvel his vvordes These they be It standeth not with Christes promises made to the Churche that he should suffer his Churche to continew in darkenesse these thousand yeres past And
so it be imagined to be planted in stockes stones trees grasse rootes fire water earth aier and brute beastes If not in multitude of personnes why is it said dominabitur à mari ad mare Psal 71. à flumine vsque ad terminos orbis terrarum he shal beare rule from sea to sea and from the riuer to the vttermost coastes of the world If not in multitude of persons what meant God the Father to say vnto Christ his Sonne Psal 2. as Dauid prophecied Aske of me and I wil geue vnto thee the Nations for thine inheritance and the endes of the earth for thy possession If not in multitude of personnes Apologie why triumphe ye so in your Apologie bicause al the worlde doth nowe beginne as you saie to beholde the light of your Gospel mightily spred abroade If not in multitude of personnes why is it said to Abraham Gen. 22. in semine tuo benedicentur omnes gentes in thy seede al nations shal be blessed Why is it said to the Apostles Math. vlt. euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine patris filij Spiritus sancti Goo ye and teache ye al nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghoste Why sayd Christe to his Apostles Act. 1. Eritis mihi testes in Hierusalem in omni Iudaea Samaria vsque ad vltimum terrae Ye shal beare witnesse of me in Hierusalem and in al Iewrie and in Samaria and vnto the vttermost partes of the worlde Knowe you not M. Iewel This opinion of M. Ievvel tendeth to the heresie of the Donatistes that S. Augustine allegeth al these and many mo such places against the Donatistes And what meane you After al these Heresies of our wretched time shal we haue also a Donatiste of you Menne marueile much why you are so contrarie to your selfe and that you lacke the discretion to discerne what maketh with you and what maketh against you What discretion was that to bring in S. Augustines authoritie that saith the Churche is called Catholique bicause it is spred throughout the whole worlde to prooue that the Catholique Churche standeth not in multitude of personnes Can the Churche be spred abrode into euery parte of the worlde without multitude of personnes Pag. 94. Or wil ye the two personnes you talke of out of Fortalitium Fidei M. Ievvel saieth the Catholique Churche standeth in the vveight of Truth and as for personnes it may stand in tvvo should bodily replenish euery quarter of the worlde and contrarie to your selfe graunt that one body may be in diuerse places at one time Or wil you the Weight of Truthe wherein the Catholique Churche standeth as you saie to wander rounde aboute the worlde tanquam accidens sine subiecto Or meane you by your two personnes out of Fortalitium alleged to appointe the Churche to be onely not as the Donatistes did in Aprica alone excluding al the quarters of the worlde besides whiche is more tolerable but in some two personnes as for example your selfe perhappes and M. Grindal or Frier Whitehed or Frier Couerdal or some one or other of the Puritanes and that al the rest of the Realme are no members of your Catholique Churche Or meane you in the excluding of the multitude of personnes to leaue your selfe some refuge if it happen your number to decay to the inuisible Churche as ye were wont to doo being driuen into any narrowe streightes by drifte of reason where menne shal haue as muche comforte of preaching of the Sacramentes and of good examples as the hungrie man hath comforte in his great hunger if it be his fortune to finde a stone Consider wel of your folie M. Iewel in the allegation of S. Augustine and weigh with your iudgement how contrary he is to your doctrine Aug. li. de Genes ad literaÌ„ imperfect cap. 1. He saith that the Catholique Churche is vniuersally perfited and halteth in nothing Meaning thereby that the Churche can not erre ne can not be deceiued This speaketh he expressely of the Churche that is spred throughout the whole worlde that is to say of the visible Churche Your doctrine is that the visible Churche doth erre hath erred and may erre as wel in Doctrine as in manners Thus you see your lucke is very il in the allegation of Fathers in that you beare vs in hande they make with you when they make fully against you Ibidem The truthe say you be it in many or in fewe is euer Catholique And what if it were in none at al Were it not also Catholique If no then the substance of truthe as it is truthe muste needes depende vppon some person and to haue the same called Catholique Lirinensis and S. Augustine telleth you that it must be euery where euermore and of al sortes of menne be beleeued If yea then haue ye once found out a Catholike truthe and a Catholique Churche planted not onely in a fewe personnes but in no personnes at al. The case that Fortalitium Fidei setteth out by waie of supposition which you allege though vntruly as your custom is for his wordes are not duo homines but duo veri fideles hath taken place in Adam and Eue Also in Noe and his smal familie But take the worlde as it is now ful of people I aske you whether it be agreable with Scripture to saie that the Catholique Church consisteth onely and alone in any two personnes as for exemple in M. Iewel if you wil and Sir Iames Proctor your worthy Chauncellour or in any two others But how saie you wil not the Prophete Dauid be founde altogether contrarie and put you in minde of the verse Postula à me Psal 2. dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam possessionem tuam terminos terrae Aske of me saith the Prophete in the person of God the Father speaking of the dilatation of Châ—istes Churche and I wil geue thee the Gentiles for thine inheritance and thy possession the vttermost Coastes of the worlde Can you M. Iewel make that narrow and smal to serue your turne which the whole Scripture openly auoucheth to be great and large Whereas you defende Luthers dogge eloquence by the great zeale he had of Goddes glorie and of his holy Temple Luthers eloqueÌ„ce defended by M. Ievvel eadem Pag. 94. Matthaeus Iudex after that you haue once read ouer Matthaeus Iudex a Lutheran and seene how Luther raileth at Oecolampadius and Zuinglius your graund Captaines yea the patriarkes of your progenie and considered by what names he calleth them saying they are as euil as the Deuil him selfe it is likely you wil repente that you euer became his aduocate who so roughly handleth them that are the founders of your owne Synagog In the very nexte line before you allege my wordeâ— with the vehemencie of whiche you doo greatly dislike your selfe in
we maie not beleeue the Pope if he be of a contrarie iudgement to Scripture Why did not you first proue that the Pope hath determined against the Canonical Scriptures wherin the whole weight of the mater lieth But your lucke is alway to leaue that vnproued which you should chiefly prooue and to encomber the Reader most with matters impertinent and quite besides the issue S. Augustines place would haue serued better to conclude that menne ought not to beleeue Heretiques whiche are certainely deceiued if they maie not beleeue Catholiques when they be deceiued But then where were your credite become who are proued to be suche Wolues and Traitours as S. Bernard spake of in Goncilio Remensi whiche Councel you allege so often times Pag. 104. Iewel Pag. 107. S. Hierome saithe Dices super Petrum fundatur Ecclesia Hieron Aduersus Iouinian lib. 1. Licet idipsum in alio loco super omnes Apostolos fiat cuncti claues regni coelorum accipiant ex aequo super omnes Ecclesiae fortitudo solidetur Ye vvel saie The Churche is founded vpon Peter Notvvithstanding in an other place the same thing is donne vpon al the Apostles and al receiue the keies of the kingdome of heauen and the strengthe of the Churche is founded equally vpon them al. Harding M. Iewel allegeth this and other places to his owne confusion The. 22. Chapt. What il fortune hath M. Iewel euer to allege the Fathers to his owne shame That so he doth it appeareth by many other and by this very place of S. Hierome against Iouinian whiche he allegeth maimedly cutting of the halfe sentence For the other halfe sentence is this tamen propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt Capite constituto Schismatis tollatur occasio Yet emong the twelue there is one chosen out to thintent he being ordeined Head the occasion of Schisme be taken awaie Thus S. Hierome there If I had nipte of such a notable peece of a sentence M. Iewel would haue benne at me with the Chinecough c. It had serued S. Hieromes turne better reasoning against Iouinian the Heretique who affirmed the state of Virgins to be of no greater perfection then the state of married personnes as M. Iewel doth also at this daie which heresie S. Hierome confuted neuer to haue graunted that S. Peter who had ben a married man was ordeined to be the Head of the Churche if it had benne as M. Iewel would persuade But bicause the truth was that S. Peter was appointed Head emong the Apostles S. Hierome doth not denie it but sheweth the cause why he was preferred before S. Ihon the Euangelist This is M. Iewels plaine dealing What is falsehod if this be not falsehod Iewel Pag. 107. S. Chrysostome of Peter saith thus Crysost in Matth. hâ—mil 83. Duplex crimen erat tum quia repugnauit tum quia caeteris seipsum praeposuit Peter vvas in double faulte bothe for that â—e vvithstoode Christe and also fâ—r that he set him selfe before the reste Harding The common saying is the blinde eateth many a flie Euen so doth M. Iewel for lacke of dewe consideration deuoure many a soule errour S. Chrysostome hath not one iote in this place that maketh for M. Iewel He speaketh of that stoute confidence that Peter had of him selfe when he said Mat. 26. Tvvo faultes coÌ„mitted by S. Peter Zacha. 13 Although they al meaning the reste of the Apostles shal be offended by thee I wil not be offended by thee Neuerthelesse he offended twise saith S. Chrysostome First in that he withstoode Christe and considered not what was alleged out of Zacharie the Prophet before who said I wil smite the shepeheard and the sheepe shal be scattered Yet S. Peter were it for the great loue and the affection that he bare to his Maister or were he touched with some ambition and trusted to wade through of him selfe without farther helpe of special grace warranted the mater that he would neuer fal from Christe There is one of his faultes The other faulte is Quoniam praeposuit se illis bicause he prefered him selfe before the other Apostles What meaneth that M. Iewel saie you What so euer you would menne should thinke of it it maketh no mater The right meaning of the place is that Peter offended the second time bicause he thought him selfe more sure as touching standing to his Maister then al the reste of the Apostles What is this to the meaning that you would faine wring out of this place that Peter was not Head of the Apostles In the selfe same Homilie before S. Chrysostome calleth him verticem Apostolorum the very Head and chiefest of al the Apostles EtiaÌ„ ipsum ApostoloruÌ„ verticem negare permisit Christ suffered saith he the toppe or head him selfe of the Apostles to denie him Againe S. Chrysostome faithe in an other Homilie as is afore tolde that Peter had committed vnto him the charge Chrysost hom 55. in Matt. and gouernment of the whole worlde Thus you may see how al thinges go against the heare as they say with you M. Iewel thus alwaies to allege suche sayinges out of the Fathers as further not your cause but rather hinder it So shal al they doo that fight against the Truth Ievvel Pag 107. Augustin epist 86. S. Augustine maketh Peter Felovve and Equal vvith the other Apostles Inter seconcorditer vixerunt Petrus Condiscipuli eius Peter and his felovves liued agreably together Harding Peter felow Disciple with the rest and yet Head of al by S. Augustine The 23. Chapt. Peter and they that were Christes Disciples with him liued concorditer for that is S. Augustines worde in good concorde together I graunt what conclude you thereof So did Christe and the Apostles liue in concorde and agreably together and yet there was a difference betwen them pardy If you harpe vpon the terme Condiscipuli Ioan. 15. Matt. 28. whiche you interprete felowes Christe calleth his Apostles in one place his frendes and in an other place his brothers And yet euery wise man confesseth a difference and that Christe was their Head and that they were his Disciples and subiectes Euen so maie we iudge of this Felowship that was betwen Peter and the reste of the Apostles How be it in the selfe same Epistle of S. Augustine S. Peter is called Caput Apostolorum Coeli ianitor Ecclesiae fundamentum Augustin epist 86. The Head of the Apostles the porter of Heauen and the foundation of the Churche Which saying not being S. Augustines owne but an other mans yet his sileÌ„ce in not speaking against it in that place proueth that he doth wel allow it And that to be euen so the same S. Augustine in a Sermone whiche he made to the people vnto whom he spake alwaies without al obscuritie the plaine truth calleth S. Peter Head of the Churche saying Augustin de tempo Ser. 124. Head of the churche Totius corporis
Againe there a litle after They that returne from Schisme and Heresie if they were in holy Orders before they became schismatikes they do not receiue holy Orders againe but either they do minister that which they did minister if the profite of the Churche do so require or if they minister not yet do they beare the SacrameÌ„t of their holy Orders stil and therefore the handes are not laid vpon them among the laie sorte Hitherto S. Augustine What hath M. Iewel to saie vnto this If S. Augustine saie that an Heretique or a Schismatique doth not lose the Priestehoode that he had lawfully before he fel into Schisme or Heresie shal M. Iewel control him with his newe Diuinitie and saie vnto him no sir it is not so For if a Bishop be negligent and doo not his duetie I saie he loseth his Order or Bisshophoode and is no more a Bishoppe M. Iewels il lucke is that whereas he readeth many Fathers or some others for him and heapeth a number of their sayinges together to fil vp a great booke neuer a one can be found that when any mater commeth to trial maketh clearely for his side No marueil For truth can neuer be made to serue against truth Iewel Pag. 117. As for VVicklefe he expoundeth plainely his ovvne meaning c. Harding Hus mistaken for Wicklefe a Canon of the Councel of Valentia truly expounded The 38. Chapt. Article 22. The expositorie Article that you allege is one of Iohn Hus his Articles and not Wicklefes condemned in the fifteenth session of the Councel of CoÌ„stance Therefore it is false that Wicklefe euer expounded his meaning in that Article and much more is it false that he did it according to mine owne construction Hus mistakeÌ„ by M. Ievvel for VViklefe as you say Thus you reherse and translate Papa vel praelatus malus et praescitus est equiuocè pastor verè fur Latro. The Pope or any other wicked prelate in doubteful speache is a Pastour but in very deede he is a theese and Latro a robber Here with M. Iewel Latro is a murtherer This is Iohn Hus his article not Iohn Wicklefes This needed not to haue ben marked but that M. Iewel is so precise and so watcheful to prie for the leaste escapes that any of vs maketh How be it both were Heretiques both Hus and Wicklefe and therefore we maie beare the better with M. Iewel if he mistake the one for the other Hus for Wicklefe and thinke that Wiclefe had more zeale of the house of God more learning more knowledge then al the Bishops of that age for so he iudgeth yet if he spake or meant more then truth maie beare M. Iewel who dareth not plainely and flatly either to allowe or to condemne the man but with Iffes and Andes mindeth not to defende him Yet he doth the best he can to defende him by a Canon of the Councel of Valentia in Fraunce not truely vnderstanded but altogether misconstrued Whiche Canon if it were truely translated that is to saie otherwise then M. Iewel hath translated it it should appeare he were fully answered and confuted A canon of the Councel of Valentia in FraÌ„ce truly expounded that vvas corrupted by M Iâ—wâ—ls false translation Concil Valentin Cap. 4. ConcilioruÌ„ Tom. 1. pag. 414. The canon truely translated is thus Who so euer sub ordinatione at the time that order is geuen either of deaconship or of Priesthod or of Bishophod shal saie they are defiled with mortal sinne they are to be remoued from the foresaid not orders as M. Iewel falsely translateth but ordinations that is orderinges or geuing of Orders for so the worde signifieth the very acte of ordering not the Orders them selfe whereby is meant that they ought to be remoued and bid to departe without Orders if one I saie would thus translate the Canon as the praeposition sub importeth M. Iewel were put quite besides his purpose and Wiklef shoulde remaine vndefended and giltie of heresie as he was before M. Iewel tooke in hande to defende him Remember M. Iewel Ordination is the acte of geuing Order Order it selfe is the effecte of Ordination or ordering By this Councel of Valentia they that confessed them selues defiled with mortal sinne were remoued not ab ordinibus from Orders for they had not yet receiued them but ab ordinationibus from the geuing of Orders vnto whiche they came for Orders Vse truthe M. Iewel deceiue not your vnlearned Reader with false translations Wicklefe is charged with this Article in the Councel of CoÌ„stance A king is not a king and a Queene is not a Queene by VVicklef if they be in deadly sinne A king being in deadly sinne is a king by vviklef Huss and M. Ieâ—vel aequâ—uoce in doubteful speache only and by a vvorde of doubt meaning as a painted man is a man Nullus est Dominus ciuilis nullus est praelatus nullus est Episcopus dum est in peccato mortali None is a temporal Lord none is a prelate none is a Bishop so long as he is in deadly sinne Beholde Reader how M. Iewel in Wicklefes defence bringeth in Wicklefe expounding his owne meaning or rather Hus for Wicklefe The Pope saith Hus whom M. Iewel taketh for Wicklefe or any other wicked prelate in doubteful speache is a Pastour but in very deede he is a theefe and a murtherer What then saith Maister Wicklefe of a king or a queene that is in deadly sinne by the plaine expositioÌ„ of his owne meaning What answereth M. Iewel in this case for his frende Wicklefe Mary whereas Wicklefe saith If a king or a Queene be in deadly sinne then neither is he a king nor shee a Queene M Iewel coÌ„meth in with Hus and thus expoundeth the meaning of Wicklefe he is a King and she is a Queene but how In doubteful speache onely he meaneth in name onely In very deede both he and she are either of them a theefe and a murtherer For so he must saie of the Princes as he saith of the Prieste and Bishop that he is a King or she a Queene by a worde of double meaning as for example vnsauery salte is called salte or as the Prophetes of Baal are called Prophetes or as a painted manne is called a man or as S. Gregorie saith of the Priest by M. Iewels reporte let him or her be called a King or a Queene though in deed he be no Kinge and she no Queene but a theefe c. If a King or a Queene being in deadly sinne be no King nor Queene in deede as M. Iewel with Hus must saie and Wicklefe doth saie what honestie hath he donne Wicklefe in so making him to expound plainely his meaning to deliuer him from the obloquie of his Heresie and from the hatred of Princes when the exposition is as lewde and of as great force as the Heresie is it selfe that I laid bothe to Wicklefes charge and his at the firste Thoughe with your Rhetorique
that there is no succession in doctrine Now I saie ronne ouer al the Bisshops of Rome and you can saie of neuer a one this man coÌ„ming into his Predecessours See did oppugne his doctrine or preached with the Churche of Romes contentation against that which was in vse before So that in Rome al thinges are euen at this day concerning faith as S. Peter leafte them For euery man hath agreed in outward Decree senteÌ„ce and profession with al the predecessours and successours Iewel Pag. 132. S. Bernard saith Quid prodest si canonicè eligantur In concil Remen non canonicè viuant VVhat auaileth it if they be chosen in order and liue out of order Harding It auaileth nothing to the euil liuer but yet it auaileth muche to him that obeieth the good and true doctrine of the euil teacher Iewel So saith S. Augustine Ipsum characterem multi lupi Cont. Donatist lib. 6. 1. q. 3. vocantur caâ—es Character vvhat it signifieth in the Sacraments lupis imprimunt The outvvarde marke or right of a bisshop many geue to vvolues and be vvolues them selues Harding By Character is not meant an outward marke but rather an inwarde marke and print which through the receiuing of certaine Sacramentes is imprinted in the soules of them who receiue them of whiche sorte are Baptisme Confirmation and holy Orders And those sacramentes being once receiued caÌ„ not be repeated or be againe receiued of the same person For the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud although it be an outward signe yet it leaueth not any Character or suche inward print in the soule as may be no more repeated But letting that errour passe of the true interpretation of this worde Character I graunt that Heretikes may baptize heretikes euen without the Churche and the Baptisme shal stand although it be vnlawfully ministred What maketh that against the Suceession of Bishops It rather proueth that seing the Sacramentes may be ministred if not to saluation of them that are of discretion yet truly and really without the true Churche there must be an other rule taken to know the true Church by besides the administration of Sacramentes And that true and certaine rule is the perpetual Succession of the See Apostolike Iewel Pag. 132. Therefore the auncient father Irenaus geueth vs this good counsel Eis qui sunt in Ecclesia presbyteris obedire oportet Iren. lib. 4. ca. 43. qui successionem habent ab Apostolis qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum secundùm beneplacitum patris acceperunt It becommeth vs to obey those Priestes in the Churche vvhich haue their succession from the Apostles and together vvith the Succession of their bishoprikes according to the good vvil of God the Father haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truthe Harding Al this maketh against you M. Iewel For seing you can shew no such Priestes hauing their Succession from the Apostles and hauing receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth whom ye doo obeye it is certaine that ye haue not the gifte of the truthe among you On the other side seing we haue Priestes that is to say Bishoppes of Rome who are also Priestes which haue their SuccessioÌ„ from the chiefe and most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule and seing such Priestes and Bishops keeping stil the same faith and doctrine from man to man haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the truth according to the good wil of God the Father doubtelesse the vndoubted marke of the truth is with vs only and not with you at al who haue no Succession at al of any Priestes and much lesse of any suche Priestes that succede lineally from the Apostles them selues Iewel 132. S. Cyprian being likevvise charged for dissenting from his predecessours Lib. 2. epist 3. ansvvereth thus Si quis de antecessoribus meis c. If any of my predecessours haue not obserued and kepte the same that our Lorde hath taught vs both by his example and also by his coÌ„maundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doo the like can hope for no pardon being nowe admonished and instructed of our Lorde Harding Cough vp man it wil choke you Phy. vvhat a fowle corruption is this Lib. 2. epist 3. if you let it tarry within your throte Here is but halfe the bone there is yet in S. Cyprian no ful point it foloweth in the same sentence Vt calicem Dominicum vino mixtum secundùm quod Dominus obtulit offeramus We can hope for no pardon who are now admonished and instructed of our Lorde that we should offer our Lordes chalice mixed with wine accordingly as our Lorde offered the same Either M. Iewel tooke this saying of S. Cyprian vpon the Germaine credite as he found it noted in their bookes and then his false brethren deceiued him or els he wrote it out of S. Cyprian himselfe and then his studie and wil was to deceiue vs. He would ful gladly haue geuen vs an authoritie that we might forsake the example of our Predecessours but he was loth we should see the thing wherewith the authoritie was exemplified For if at any time he say al he is sure to speake against him selfe and no wonder because he speaketh against the truth and euerie good saying euermore agreeth with the trtuh First he corrupteth S. Cyprian in putting in meis for nostra my predecessours in stede of our predecessours For S. Cyprian speaketh not of his owne Succession but of what soeuer Priest or Bishoppe that liued before his time Againe S. Cyprian spake not of any such custome as had ben generally vsed of al Bishops for then it had ben of ful authoritie but of that which some one man vsed priuatly and without keeping the lawe of Succession And therefore S. Cyprian said Si quis if any man Thirdly the thing he spake of was that some were said to offer water alone in our Lordes supper and not wine withal Now saith he if any before our time haue vsed to offer water and not wine mingled with water wel he may be pardoned by our Lordes mercie but we that are admonished and instructed to offer our Lordes chalice mingled with wine that is to say consisting not of water alone but of water and wine mingled together we caÌ„ not be pardoned except we mingle water with wine and so do offer our Lordes Chalice as he him selfe did offer it Nowe applie this geare Christian Reader to our new brethrens deedes Do they offer our Lordes Chalice at al Or do they graunt that our Lord in his Supper offered it Do they mingle water with wine at the time of consecrating the mysteries If they do neither of both what folie yea what madnesse was it for M. Iewel to bring foorth these wordes of S. Cyprian thereby to accuse him selfe and his owne Communion as not obseruing that whiche our Lorde commaunded to be obâ—â—rued It is a worlde to see how these men applye the witnesses of
is that M. Ievvel perfourmeth in this mater of Priestes and Votaries marriages Now commeth me M. Iewel in and allegeth Doctours as thicke as haile olde and newe knowen and vnknowen allowed and disallowed Schoolemen and Summistes vea the very marginal Annotations vpon the Glose of Gratian are haled in to helpe at a pintche and yet al helpeth not Of his owne in manner he saith nothing but thus Origen saith Tertullian saith suche a one saith and suche an other saith and he saith and againe he saith c. Then he laith downe their Latine be it true be it false and putteth a translation vnto it suche as becommeth shifters to vse in a false matter and thus furnisheth out a great booke that the worlde may thinke he is a great Clerke Were al that he allegeth to the purpose then were it somewhat yet were it no great commendation to make bookes onely out of Notebookes already made and gathered to his handes First to declare his order keeping him selfe a luffe of M Iewels order in his treatie of this pointe and his tvvo principles and comming nothing neare the point wherein my Confutation consisteth he bringeth the holy Fathers into suspicion of not dealing vprightly and indifferently herein bearing the Reader in hande they haue swarued from truth either in the auauncing of Virginitie or els in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie To make proufe of this he allegeth no smal number of sentences out of certaine Fathers in whiche not being thoroughly examined they seeme to speake hardly of Marriage specially of the second Mariage For this point his Doctours be these Tertullian in Exhortatione ad Castitatem the author of the vnperfite worke vpon S. Matthew whom he calleth Chrysostom whereas it is wel knowen not to be his as that whiche conteineth sundry heinous heresies S. Hierome writing against Iouinian Heluidius and to Gerontia Athenagoras in Apologia pro Christianis Nazianzen in dictum Euangelij Cùm perfecisset Iesus c. Origen in Lucam Homilia 17. for which his cotation hath Homil. 19. Nexte he reckeneth vp so many menne as he hath read of that being Married were afterwardes made Bisshops Of whom he saith that they vsed Mariage them selues in their owne personnes which is more then he is liable to proue if by vse of Marriage he meane the carnal copulation M. Iewels tvvo Principles These two that is to say the Fathers disgracing of Matrimonie and their hauing of wiues them selues he calleth by the name of his two Principles whiche being laid he maketh his stoute vaunte that he is the better hable to consider the substance of my reasons for so he saith and there at length he addresseth him selfe to shape an Answere to the parte of my Confutation aboue sette out Now to say somewhat to his Principles before I come to his Answer were it true that certaine Fathers speaking of Matrimonie vsed immoderate and extraordinarie speaches for so he termeth them Againe that many of them had ben married before they came to be Bishops what perteineth that to the defence of the marriage of Votaries and Priestes whiche was the point presently treated of What wil he make this fonde and childish Argument Certaine Fathers spake ouer vehemētly concerning Matrimonie Item some of them were called to the dignitie of Bishops from the state of married menne Ergo Priestes Monkes Friers and Nonnes who haue vowed Chastitie may lawfully marrie wiues and take husbandes Truly either this is his reason or els hitherto he hath no reason at al. And of what smal substance this reason is the veriest Cobblers of al their Ministers if they can reade any English besides their communion booke may easily perceiue Touching the Fathers speaches in reproufe of Matrimonie one answer M. Iewel Ansvver to M. Ievvels doctours in manner may serue to refute al that you would inferre of their sayinges Onely I excepte Tertullian who being fallen into the fowle Heresie of Montanus in his booke intituled Exhortatio ad castitatem wrote otherwise of Marriage specially in that he condemned second marriage then the Catholique Church holdeth or the trueth beareth And S. Hierome witnesseth as Beatus Rhenanus noteth that booke to haue ben written against the Churche Now we thinke not our selues bounde to defende what so euer they say whom the Churche condemneth for Heretiques As for Origen likewise you knowe of how litle credite he is in regard of sundry great errours albeit touching the case of the second and third Mariage The Fathers cal immoderate luste an euil thing for vvhiche they be thought of some vnlearned to reproue marriage De peccato originali contra Pelag. Coelestiū lib. 2. c. 37 Lib 1. de Nuptiu et Concupiscent c. 22 speaking where of you allege him he may better be defended then Tertullian may As concerning the other Fathers by you alleged the thing for which they seeme sometimes to speake of Matrimonie not fauorably is the immoderate concupiscence or luste now after sinne by our first parentes committed which is of the holy Fathers reported to be malum asmuch to say an euil thing and to procede not of God but of sinne without which euil thing the thing that is good in Matrimonie that is to say generation can not be perfourmed This besides other Fathers S. Augustine calleth oftentimes malum an euil thing as carnalis concupiscentiae malum the euil of fleshly luste and malum libidinis the euil thing of carnal pleasure c. He saith that natural shamefastnesse sheweth it so to be by whiche it commeth to passe that although married personnes glorie in Children yet when they attend vpon the worke of begeting Children they choose them selues secrete places and wil al witnesses to be out of their waie thereby confessing the shamefastnesse it selfe of Nature And this muche our first Parentes confessed after they had sinned Gen. 3. by that they were ashamed and coouered their shamely partes with Figge tree leaues as the Scripture plainely declareth Neither proceedeth this euil thing of Marriage but of sinne August in Psal 70. and it is the paine of sinne In married personnes it is euil but no sinne malum poenae not malum culpae as the Scholastical Diuines cal it And this is the meaning of that saying of the authour that wrote the vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew Opere imperfecto in Matth. Hom. 1. sub finem whome you wil needes to be S. Chrysostome The saying is this Haec ipsa Coniunctio Maritalis malum est ante Deum Non dico Peccatum sed malum This very wedlocke Coniunction it selfe is an euil thing before God I saie not it is Sinne but I saie it is an euil thing In translating whiche woordes you doo very falsly demeane your selfe and beguyle your vnlearned Reader For in that place the authour meaneth not by Coniunctio Matrialis the Copulation of Matrimonie as you translate it as though he said VVhat is that vvhich is of the
or vnto the Latine If you sticke vnto the Latine worde Patres which signifieth Fathers or Ancestours you meane not I trow that Polycrates had seuen Fathers for that were to much by six you knowe One Father is ynough pardy for one man If he had seueÌ„ Ancestours what gather you therof that he was married bicause he had seuen Ancestours Where is your Logique becomme M. Iewel The truth is good Reader here is Ruffinus belied Ruffinus belied He traÌ„slateth not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Patres but Parentes whiche goeth further of in signification then the word Patres doth as the learned in the Ciuile Lawes doo knowe And this Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 properly signifieth kinnesmen them that be neare in bloud them that be of one familie and of the same kinred S. Hierom translateth it propinquos Hiero. in Catalogo in Polycrate and him foloweth Sophroniê° putting for S. Hieromes Latine word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifiing them that were nye in bloud Now Polycrates Bishop of Ephesus said in his epistle to Pope Victor that 7. Bishops in that See before him were of his house his familie his stocke his bloud or his kinred Let M. Iewel make the most of this place Thereof he can coÌ„clud nothing for any of the foure pointes before mencioned which he hath taken in hand to defende That S. Peter was a married man Ignat. ad Philadelp Origen falsified by M. Ievvel Origen in CommeÌ„t in epist ad Rom. c. 1. VVhether S. Paule had a vvife ot no by the opinion of S. Ambrose M. Ievvels foule contradictions Replie Article 17. Diuision 11. for which you allege S. Ignatius and Clemens Alexandrinus and Eusebius the reherser of his words it was neuer denied This haue you nowe tolde vs diuers times But where you say thus Origen saith that S. Paule and his wife were called to the Faith both at one time you deale with Origen as you do with the reste whom so euer you allege falsifying them more or lesse Origen saith not as you reporte him but thus Paulus sicut quidam tradunt cum vxore vocatus est S. Paule as some say was called with a wife that is to say hauing a wife before That he had a wife he affirmeth it not for certaintie but maketh it a matter of a Some say And there it foloweth immediatly aliis videtur sine vxore that others were of the opinion he was free and called to the Faith hauing no wife at al. But sir touching this point whether S. Paule had a wife or no by the opinion of S. Ambrose whome here you cal to witnesse whether is truer man Maister Iewel that wrote the Replie or Maister Iewel that wrote this pretensed Defence There he sayth thus The twelue Apostles Ambros in 2. Cor. 11. saith S. Ambrose only S. Iohn excepted were al married Here he saith otherwise S. Ambrose saith Omnes Apostoli excepto Iohanne Paulo vxores habuerunt Al the Apostles had wiues only Iohn and Paule excepted Here S. Paule hath no wife there S. Paule hath a wife If you were a true man there then are you falfe here If you be true here then were you false there Or he had a wife by S. Ambrose or he had not say which ye wil M. Iewel is contrarie to M. Iewel Againe by M. Iewel in his Defence pag. 184. S. Paule had a wife But by the same M. Iewel in the same booke page 512. the same S. Paule had no wife Faine would I know which of these M. Iewels were to be trusted Hieron contra Iouinian Lib. 1. In the 2. Keioinder fol. â—75 b. The place of S. Hierome against Iouinian saying that Priestes in his time had Matrimonies that is to say were taken from the state of maried personnes to be Priestes helpeth you nothing To the same I haue answered in my second Reionder as to sundry thinges els here by you againe rehersed Hitherto M. Iewel hath smal aduantage as thou seest Reader Remember the foure pointes I noted to thee before which is his parte to defende whiche not being defended he may of any man be chalenged to yeelde at leaste in this matter of the marriage of them that haue vowed perpetual chastitie Before he commeth to the point he saith litle of him selfe but bringeth in heapes of other mennes sayinges nothing perteining to the question as I iudge to make a shewe of learning to the ignorant Among which this is one pretended to be alleged out of Damasus for proufe that many Popes were Priestes sonnes Thus he saith Iewel Pope Damasus shevveth vs Distin 56 Osius A vaine and a fonde thing ascribed to Damasus as though he vvrote of thiÌ„ges done loÌ„g after his death that a greate number of Bishoppes of Rome vvere Priestes sonnes As Pope Syluerius Pope Deus dedit Pope Adrianus 2. Pope Iohn 15. Pope Felix 3. Pope Hosius Pope agapetus Pope Gelasius Pope Bonifacius Pope Iohn 10. Pope Theodorus And concludeth thus Complures etiam alij inueniuntur qui de Sacerdotibus nati Apostolicae Sedi praefuerunt many others beside there are founde that being Priestes Sonnes ruled the Apostolique See of Rome Harding What shal I say vnto this felow Who euer saw so impudent a man Doth Pope Damasus shew you al this M. Iewel Phy for shame man You a minister of Gods worde Nay a minister of vaine Fables a minister of open lyes What may we cal this in you foolish ignorance or shamelesse malice How could you be so ignorant or so witlesse as once to dreame that Damasus that learned Pope should thus write That you might seeme a ioily proctour for your brothers the married Apostates sacrilegious incestuous and abominable yoking for Marriage is too honorable a name for that filthinesse must Damasus needes be made a Prophete and such a Prophete as the worlde had neuer the like A Prophete I say for onlesse he had a strange gifte of Prophecie how was it possible that he should tel who should be the Fathers of menne borne so many yeres after his death Consider Reader I pray thee for it booteth not to tel it M. Iewel how this tale hangeth together Damasus was the .39 Pope Syluerius whom M. Iewel putteth in the first place was the .60 Pope Deus dedit was the .70 Pope Adrianus the seconde was the .109 Pope Iohn the .15 was the .143 Felix the thirde was the .50 Agapetus was the .59 Gelasius the .51 Bonifacius the first whereas there were diuers of that name whom he meaneth I know not was the .44 Ihon the tenth was the .126 Theodorus the first if he meane any other of that name he was farther of from Damasus was the .75 Pope Pope Hosius a Pope of M. Iewels making As for Pope Hosius he is a Pope of M. Iewels owne making Verely in al the Registres of Popes I find none so named A smal mater if M. Iewel who maketh so many Popes Priestes sonnes
husband of one wife that the same order contineweth stil in the Church thereto he saieth in his secoâ—d homilie de patientia Iob non ea ratione quod id nunc in Ecclesia obseruetur Oportet enim omni prâ—rsus castitate Sâ—cerdotem ornatum esse S. Paule sayeth he required this not in consideration that the same be nowe obserued in the Church For it behoueth a Bishop to be garnished with al manner a chastitie Iewel Here commeth M. Hardinge in a lofte vvith Io Triumphe as hauing beaten dovvne al the vvorld vnder his feete And as being already in sure possession of the victorie he crieth out Impudencies Loude his foule Faultes and pietie Fittens And ful terribly chargeth vs like a Conqueroure to render oure selues and to râ—cante for sonne This nevve courage is suddainly blovven vpon him for that he thâ—â—keth vve haue intruded vâ—on his office and as he saieth haâ—e corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers But it vvere a vvorthie matter to knovve vvherein Forsoothe vve saie by the reporte of Sozâ—menus and Gregorius Nazianzenus that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzen being bothe Married Bishoppes notvvithstanding theire Marriage vvere neuer the vvâ—rsâ— hable to doo theire Ecclesiastical offices but rather the better * The vvordes importe it not Here M. Harding of himselfe and freely confesseth these Holy Fathers vvâ—re neâ—â—r the vvorse hable to dâ—â— their offices For so muche th◠〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 importe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But that they vvere the better hable to doe theirâ— offices â—â—cause of theire VViues that he dâ—nieth vtterly and herein he saieâ—h me are corrupters and falsifiers of the Fathers And thus the vvhole difference that is betvvene M. Hardinge and vs touching this matter standeth onely in these tvvo poore vvordes Rather the better and â—euer the vâ—â—rse Novv gentle reader I beseche thee also Reader to vveigh my Ansvver that thou maiest be the better hable tâ— iâ—dge betvvene vs I beseeche the indifferently vveigh these vvâ—â—des Gregorie Nazianzene hereof that is of the helpe Vntruth for then he vvas not Bishop but an infidel Nazian in Epitaphiâ— patris that his Father 〈◊〉 being the Bishop of Nazianzum had by his vvife vvriteth thus Illa quae data est Adamo c. Eua that vvvas geuen to Adam for a helper for asmuch as it vvas nâ—â— good for man to be alone in steede of a helper became his enemie It follovveth Meo autem Patri Mater mea data illi à Deo non tantum adiutrix facta est id enim minus esset miruÌ„ sed etiaÌ„ dux princeps verbo factoque inducens illuÌ„ ad res optimas Et aliis quidem rebus quamuis optimum esset subditam esse viro propter iura coniugii tamen in pietate non verebatur seipsam illi magistram exhibere My mother being geuen to my father of God became not onely his helper for that had ben no great vvonder but also vvas his leader and Captaine She vvas his Maistresse before he knevv vvhat the faith of Christ vvas yet they serue you to no purpose False He vvas not then Bishop of Nazianzum nor yet a Christian bothe by vvord and by deede trayning him vnto the best And albeit in other thinges it vvere beste for her to be subiecte vnto her husbande for the right of marriage yet in religion and Godlinesse she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse These vvordes M. Hardinge be plaine and cleare and vvithout fitton Gregorie Nazianzen sayeth that his ovvne â—â—â—ther vvas vnto his father the Bishop of Nazianzum a helper and a directour both by vvorde and deede to leade him to the best and that in al other thinges being his inferiour yet in â—eligion and Godlinesse she vvas his * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVhat a do vvould this fellovv make if he had me at a Vantage in deede that thus fareth vvithout cause as by the ansvver it shal better appeare Maistresse And yet mâ—st al these vvordes so open so plaine so cleare be drovvned vvith your simple distinction of Rather the better and neuer the vvorse Maie vve not novve allovve you vvith fauour to take al these that ye cal sitions lyes corruptions and falsifienges home againe vnto your selfe If you â—â—â—â—r crâ—â—le thâ—se tâ—â—â—ges before is 〈…〉 must remembre al truth must not be measured by your reading â–ª Harding To beginne with these last wordes as I require not al truth to be measured by my râ—â—ding M. Iâ—wâ—l so neither is it to be measured by your writing Whether I euer readde these thinges before or no it skilleth not Certaine it is where you readde al that ye haue here alleged out of S. Gregorie Nazianzene you readde also that whereby your false and vnreasonable assertion is confuted teaching that his Father being Bishop of NazianzuÌ„ learned the doctrine of Godlines of his wife Hauing read and seene the truth of this point in that very place and here conceeling it that you might not seeme confuted yea and so boldely auouching the contrarie how make you not al menne that know this witnesses of your falshode and impudencie M. Ievvels gay eloquence minister-like As for your vaine and light tauntes of my comming in a lofte with Io Triumphe of my terrible charging of you like a Conquerour of the new courage suddainly blowen vpon me and such other prety eloquence fitter for a Minister then for a sober man I can easily contemne No wise man that readeth my wordes for which ye ruffle so with me wil iudge you had iuste cause with suche sporte to delight your selfe Neither said I if you marke my wordes wel that you had corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers for that you said vpon reporte of Sozomenus and S. Gregorie Nazianzene that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzene were for their marriage neuer the worse hable to serue God but rather the better which neuerthelesse is false but for that you speake it generally of a Bishop as though Bishops should doâ— that apperteineth to their charge the better if they married wiues For truth whereof I referre me to the place SpiridioÌ„ and Gregorie Nazianzenes father Those two holy Fathers were menne endewed with a singular and special grace and the example of so few is not to be drawen to be made a rule in general as I said in my Confutation Yet the most that is said of them is that they serued God neuer the worse by reason of their Marriage Againe M. Ievvel defeÌ„deth after his manner but fevv partes of the Apologie whereas I answered to euery parte of your Apologie in this place you defende but one thing by me confuted Neither to say the truth doo you defende the same but say what you were hable to shew some colour of a Defence This argueth that the other thinges you brought are fully confuted For elles why did you not defende them And this muche is the Reader here to be warned of by the waie That whereas most
Ievvel 230. You saye yee exhort the people to receiue their maker VVhat Scripture vvhat father vvhat doctour euer taught you thus to saye It is the bread of our lord In Iohan. Tract 59. as S. Augustine saith it is not our Lord. It is a creature corruptible it is not the maker of heauen and earth Harding Iohan. 6. That vve receiue our maker in the B. Sacrament Good wordes M. Iewel I praie you Christ saith he that eateth me shal also liue for me Was he that spake these wordes the maker of heauen and earth or no If he were accursed be he that demeth him so to be If he be our maker and God when we exhort men to receiue him in the blessed Sacrament why maie we not exhort them to receiue their maker And the body of Christ hath no other person to rest in or to be susteined of beside him only who being the Son of God is maker of heaueÌ„ and earth You know that our forefathers were taught to cal it their maker euen as S. Augustine confesseth that his people called the Sacramente of the Aulter vitam life The blessed Sacrament our Lord and maker by verdit of S. Augustine Augustin in Iohan. Tract 59. 1. Cor. 11. You make as though S. Augustine denied the Sacrament to be our Lord which he neuer doth but rather saith Illi manducabaÌ„t panem dominum they did eate the bread their Lord but Iudas did eate Panem Domini the bread of our Lord against our Lord Illi vitam ille poenam They did eate life he did eate paine For he that eateth vnworthily saith the Apostle eateth damnation to himselfe If the Apostles at the supper of Christ did eate only the Sacrament for the scripture speaketh of none other thing eaten and yet they did eate the bread which is our Lorde as S. Augustine saith Certainely the heauenly bread of the SacrameÌ„t is our Lord. But Iudas is said to haue eaten the bread of our Lord against our Lord bicause he did eate the Sacrament vnworthily and so he did not eate our Lord as he is bread that is to say as he feedeth but as he is a iudge and as he condemneth the vnworthy eater to euerlasting paine For otherwise S. Augustine saith Augustin Epist 162. Iudas did care his maker that Iudas did eate his maker Sinit accipere venditorem suum quod norunt fideles pretium nostrum He suffereth him that sold him to receiue our price which the faithful knowe Our maker was our price through his humaine nature In illo Sacramento Christus est saith S. Ambrose quia corpus est Christi Christ is in that Sacrament Ambros de ijs qui initiant cap. 9. bicause it is the body of Christ Wherfore you see how litle cause ye haue to be so muche offended with me for saying when we exhort the people to receiue the blessed Sacrament that then we exhorte them to receiue their maker Of Transubstantiation and M. Iewels falsehod in that matter The 8. Chapter THe Real Presence is the grounde of this doctrine For seing Christ said Math. 26. take eate this is my body these being propre and not figuratiue wordes as it hath benne shewed before it followeth thereof that the body of Christe whiche is not made of nothing is at the lest wise made really present by vertue of the Consecration the substance of bread and wine conuerted and changed into it Ambros De Sacrament li. 4. cap. 4. Chrysost De Eucharistia in Encenijs For which cause S. Ambrose saith Vbi accesserit consecratio de pane fit caro Christi When consecration is come thereunto from of bread is made the body of Christe Likewise S. Chrysostom saith Num vides panem c. Seest thou bread Seest thou wine God forbid Thinke not so Like as if waxe be putte into the fire it is made like vnto it neither remaineth ought of the substance of waxe euen so here thinke the Mysteries to be consumed away with the presence of that body a. Sermone 5. de Pascha Eusebius Emissenus b. in catechetica Oratione Gregorius Nyssenus c. in Leuit cap. 22. Hesychius d in Iohan 6. Theophylante e. de orthodoxa fide li. 4. cap. 14. Theophylact in ca. Math. â—6 Damascen and al the other Fathers teache the same doctrine as it hath benne ofte tolde in other places Iewel 239. VVhat one vvorde speaketh Theophylact either of your TransubstaÌ„tiatiation or of your Real Presence or of your corporal and fleshly eating Harding Can there be any greater impudencie in the earth then to save that Theophylact speaketh not one word of these pointes Beside al that I haue alredy brought out of Theophylact in my Confutation how plaine is he where he writeth thus vpon S. Matthew Ineffabili operatione traÌ„siformatur etiam si nobis videatur panis quoniaÌ„ infirmi sumus et abhorremus crudas carnes comedere maximè hominis carnem Et ideo panis quidem apparet sed re vera caro est It is transfourmed by an vnspeakeable operation although it seeme bread to vs bicause we are weaklinges and do abhorre to eate rawe fleshe specially the flesh of man And therfore it appeareth to be bread but in deede it is flesh Can these woordes be eluded or shifted by your phrases and figuratiue speaches It seemeth bread but in deede it is flesh saith he what is then become of the bread It is transfourmed or made ouer into another thing Into what other thing but into the flesh of Christ And why remaineth the fourme of Breade whereas in deede it is made fleshe Bicause saith he we abhorre to eate rawe flesh and specially mannes flesh And yet speaketh not Theophylact one word of Transubstantiation or of the Real Presence of Christes flesh Many other places in him are as plaine as this but he that hath such a face as to denie this one wil not be moued if we bring forth neuer so many Hauing thus abused Theophylact perhappes he wil seme for antiquities sake to beare more reuerence towards S. Ambrose whom here he now taketh in hand Iewel Pag. 246. S. Ambrose saith of the bread and vvine Sunt quae erant in aliud mutantur They remaine the same that they vvere and are chaunged into an other thing S Ambrose saith not so Phie vvhat falsifiyng is this The natural creatures of the bread and wine in the supper of our Lord saith S. Ambrose remaine stil in substaÌ„ce as they were before yet are they changed into an other thing that is to say they are made the Sacrament of the bodie and bloude of Christ vvhich before they vvere not Harding Many other places M. Iewel make me doubte left you haue your conscience marked with the signe of Antichrist that is to say lest although you see and knowe your self to lie and to falsify the holy Fathers yet you wil not yeld vnto the truth in any point
alleged For pride is no substance nor creature at al. Man only in his vnderstanding considereth it as somewhat whereas it is only a defecte and failing from humilitie For God neuer made vice Pride is a vice and therefore 〈…〉 But what shal a man saie to this fellow When the name of Substance seemeth to make for him then it standeth properly as the Philosophers vse the worde which is in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but when it seemeth to make against him then it standeth for grace faith wordes and Sacramentes which in some writers are named Substance as the diuines somtimes vse the terme whereto the Greeke terme Hypostasis answereth as S. Paule vseth it Heb. 11. How the Church is resolued in doubtful cases The truth is that seing wordes for the more parte are doubteful ambiguous and subiect to cauilles Christ hath not planted his Church in such sorte vpon wordes that his faithful members should thereby be diuided into many sectes For as he considering our infirmitie lefte vnto vs his holy wil conceiued in such wordes as menne vse in their common speache he lefte also with those wordes a high Pastor Iohan. 21. Luc. 22. by whom we should be fed for whose faith he prayed and his prayer is heard To which chiefe Pastor he gaue power and commaundement to strengthen and cōfirme his brethren So that it is in dede litle worth to hange of syllables and letters but it behoueth vs alwaies to seeke for the meaning of the worde And bicause we should neuer agree among our selues vpon wordes Math. 18. he bound vs to heare the Church the chiefe and ordinarie mouth whereof S. Peter was whiles he liued and after him the Bishops of Rome his Successours haue euer had the same place He then that wil be sure to know how euery worde that belongeth to matter of the faith must be taken in this or in that place of holy Scripture or of holy writers must be ruled by the mouth of his chiefe Pastor Act. 20. Now that Pastor calling to him out of al the worlde the chiefe and best learned Bishoppes ordeined by the holy Ghoste Gouernours of particular flockes hauing seene and heard al that might be said too and fro in the middest of foure hundred threescore and ten Bishoppes and of moe then a thousand learned Diuines besides the assistance of the holy Ghoste called for mature deliberation had and diligent examination of the Scriptures and holy Fathers made founde and by al their consente determined Concil Lateranen ca. 1. that the substance of bread and wine in the Sacrament of the Aulter is by the power of Gods worde changed into the substance of Christes Body and Bloud After whiche determination we know how Gelasius and how Theodoritus must of necessitie be vnderstanded if at the lest we wil heare the Churche as vnder paine of damnation we are bound to doo This answer may suffice al the cauilles that are moued and tossed by M. Iewel touching nature substance subsistence or any like worde Al wordes are ambiguous as S. Augustine confesseth In lib. de Dialecti The highest iudge in the highest courte of Christendome hath geuen sentence He that obeieth hath humilitie and seeth his grounde He that being loth to seeme deceiued wrangleth as M. Iewel doth is proude vaine contentious and disobedient which custome Heretikes haue and euer haue had but as S. Paule saith 1. Cor. 11. the Church of God hath it not Iewel Pag. 262. 263. To leaue these vnfruitful gheasses vve saie that the cuppe of blessing vvhich Christ calleth the Cuppe of the nevv Testament notvvithstanding it vvere made in a Mysterie the Sacrament of Christes Bloude yet in nature and substance vvas very vvine stil and as Christe him selfe calleth it the very fruite and generation of the grape as it vvas before The vvordes of the Euangelist S. Mathevv are very plaine Harding Would God I could so clearely shew to the Reader as the weight of this matter requireth how lewdly you playe as wel with the Gospel as with me It is not I M. Iewel that am incōstant in saying now these wordes were spoken before consecration and now after and perhaps at both times whereat you ieast and scoffe it is not I that changed my minde But whereas one of the Euangelistes telleth the matter one waye and the other an other waye and whereas sometimes they tel thinges out of order as your selfe can not but graunt my answer must needes be such as by al meanes to saue the truthe of the Gospel that howsoeuer these wordes were spoken which be obscure yet the plaine truth should not be hindred by them You sticke to the plaine wordes of S. Matthew as you saie And why sir I praye you may not I as wel claime that S. Lukes wordes are as plaine Luc. 22. I then haue myne eye to bothe and so make a distinction shewing how bothe together may be defended You litle esteming S. Luke talke to vs onely of S. Matthew whereby you declare that you beleue none other Euangeliste ne none other word of God beside your owne fansie Likewise you dissemble how diuersly the Fathers haue expounded the fruite of the Vine and vtter many wordes about a most knowen truth The fruit of the vine which no man denieth wherein as you deserue smal praise of learning so you lose amonge the wise the commendation of discretion For answer to al which I saie that it is a certaine case and cleere out of question that there was wine in Christes chalice whereof the Sacramēt should be made and yet forsoothe you would nedes proue it in many Pages together Againe I say that as there was wine in the chalice whereof the Sacrament should be made so after it was made there was no more the substance of wine And that I wil proue so plainely That after cōsecration there vvas no more the substance of vvine in Christes cup. Luc. 22. that you shal neuer be hable to answer to it Christe him selfe said if at the leste you admitte S. Lukes Gospel This Cuppe is the newe Testament in my Bloude whiche cuppe is shedde or shal be shedde for you The Cuppe shal be shedde for vs saith Christe that is to saye the liquour conteined in the Cuppe shal be shedde for vs. But natural or artificial wine was not shed for vs but onely Christes owne Bloude was shed for vs Ergo onely Christes owne Bloude is in that Cuppe and the substance of wine is not there at al. The wordes are plaine that which is in the Cup or chalice shal be shed for vs that was onely Christes Bloude Therefore onely Christes Bloude is in the Cuppe or Chalice But Christes Bloude is no wine excepte wee cal it wine in suche respecte as Christe him selfe is called the Vine and the grape Therefore no material wine of the common grape is in the Cuppe of Christes Supper Chrysost in 1. Cor. 10. With
that whiche is taken out of the Preface that is set before the booke by reason and order should be placed before that whiche is taken out of the eighteenth leafe of the same booke By this he hath now deserued to heare that tolde him your Deuilish wickednesse which was not tolde him before For wherein can a man shewe him selfe more wicked and more Deuilish then in deuising false slaunders against his brother whereof the Deuil called in Greeke Diabolus hath his name and of S. Iohn is called the Accuser of our Brethren Apoc. 12. In the third place he chargeth me with these three wordes Your Deuilish villanie Confut. fol. 256. b. These be not my wordes let my booke be trial What so euer there I say I speake it vpō right good occasion as the Reader vewing the place and conferring it with the wordes of the Apologie shal iudge Wheras M. Iewel or who soeuer pēned the Apologie cōpareth the Catholike Clergie with wicked Ieroboam and the worship wherewith the Church serueth God with the worship of Ieroboams Idolatrous Calues and saith that the Catholikes haue made the Lawe of God of none effecte through their owne traditions vttering such otherstuffe sauering altogether of deuilish spite against the Churche hereupon moued with iust zele there thus I say Neither be these thinges ye speake so muche deuilish villanie of our owne tradditions but for the more parte either of the Apostles of Christe or of most holy and auncient Fathers Iudge good Reader how truly this man chargeth me The fourth note is this Your railing vvordes of Satans prompting Reioinder 67. a. I said not your railing wordes but you vtter railing wordes of Satans prompting And the same I say againe For onlesse the Deuil had prompted you you could not haue spoken such deuilish blasphemie against the blessed and dredful Sacrifice as there you doo And how agreable those wordes are to the wordes that Satan vttered against the fame in his Disputation with Luther it shal appeare to him that readeth the same disputation truly set forth in my Preface to the Reader before my last Reioindre Fol. 34. b. The place who list to see hath thus That you are the ennemie of this blessed Sacrifice euen here you confesse it for your selfe and for your felowes where you vtter railing wordes of Satans prompting calling that against which you professe your hatred errours abuses and sacriledge mainteined to the open derogation of the Sacrifice and the Crosse of Christe An other note of vncourteous wordes imputed vnto me by M. Iewel is this You are ioined to Satan Satan your Scholemaster Reioind 12. b. Neither be these my wordes thus laid together In deede bicause Satan brought Luther in hatred of the Masse by his night disputation that he had with him and M. Iewel alloweth Satans opinion and doctrine touching that point and commendeth the Frier for beleuing it I say there by way of question thus Who seeth not that considereth the place howe frendly these three Doctours ioyne together in league against the Masse Doctor Iewel Doctor Luther and Doctor Satan The former wordes noted by M. Iewel I say not Touching the other wordes imputed vnto me Satan your Scholemaster neither be they mine vttered in suche order Thus there I say and here I reuoke not Here M. Iewel defendeth bothe Luther the chiefe Huisher of the Schoole of this newe founde Gospel and Satan him selfe the head Scholemaister Now in this place how soeuer my woordes seme to M. Iewel vnciuile his Defence of Satan in that case semeth to me vngodly and if I said Satanical I trow I should not greatly offende The sixt Note is this Ye are moued by the instinct of Satan Confuta 43. b. 255. a. This is vtterly false specially as concerning the place of the first cotation For there the instinct of Satan is not attributed vnto M. Iewel nor to this newe Clergie of England but onely vnto Frier Luther And vpon how good and iust occasion let it be iudged by the circumstance of the place There I saye that within these fifty yeres this Gospel of theirs was hidden only in Luthers breaste powred in by the instinct of Satan thennemy of mankinde finding the Friers harte wholly inflamed with couetise ambition disdaine against Iohn Tetzet and the order of the Dominicans rancour and malice against the Pope and Albert Archebishop of Mentz for that he was remoued from the preferment of his Pardon preaching whereby he found him selfe wel cherished and was mainteined in wealth and pleasure Neither in the other place fol. 255. a. say I ye are moued by the instinct of Satan I say otherwise And the thing in deede whereof there I speake whiche here I auouche againe they haue done by the instinct of Satan So wil al the godly iudge I doubt not who with the circumstance of the place shal weigh my woordes there which be these Confut. 255. a. Lastly concerning Praier what hath benne ordeined by our holy Forefathers of al ages directed with the spirite of God for the maintenance and encrease of it to Goddes honour al that in fewe yeares by the instincte of Satan to promote his kingdome ye haue vtterly abolished and by wicked violence brought the people from Deuotion to a carelesse Idlenesse from speaking to God with hartes and lippes to a spiritual Dumnesse from Praiers to Chapters from holy thinking to vnprofitable harkening What can you reasonably answere M. Iewel By what instinct haue the deuisers of your Gospel brought the people so farre from deuotion and feruour in praying but by the instinct of Satan If you say the people be as deuoute now and geuen to praier as in olde time before your Gospel was heard the very stoanes wil gainesay you and control you And if you doubt whence this instinct cometh sith the Scripture calleth the Holyghost Spiritum precum the Spirite of Praiers Zach. 12. from whom the contrarie instincte proceedeth you can not be ignorant The 7. Note of bitter woordes wherewith he chargeth me is this Your Father the Deuil Confutat 2. a. If I had said so it had ben bitterly spoken I cōfesse But al bitter speaches are not to be discommended as neither al bitter medicines For then we should discommend the holy Fathers the Prophetes the Apostles Iohn the Baptist and Christ him selfe who as it is before declared oftentimes spake bitterly It is to be considered what he deserueth to heare who is bitterly spoken vnto Now true it is in the place that M. Iewel hath here coted I speake not of him nor of his fellowes that laid their heades together to the setting together of the peeces of the Apologie but of al Heretiques in general who haue the Deuil to their Father in deede For if the Deuil be author of Diuision The Deuil Father of al Heretiques Iohan. 8. and the Father of lying as the Scripture calleth him al Heresies being Lyes and al Heretiques being Lyers how farre
swarued I from the truth when I called the Deuil the Father of Heretiques But who seeth not howe here M. Iewel bewraieth him selfe and sheweth his gilty conscience For why should he be offended with any suche saying onlesse he thought him selfe therein touched So Iudas bewraied the gilte of his owne treason saying Nunquid ego sum Rabbi Matth 25 Is it I Master But what meane you M. Iewel May not a man speake of Heretiques as it beseemeth them to be spoken of but you must take peper in the nose Can we not speake ought of Heretiques but your parte must be therein If you wil needes haue it so take it so and God amend you If the reader list to conferre the place thus there I say Confut. 2. a. But what meane al Heretikes may we iudge by coueting so much to be sene that whiche they are not Forsooth they meane none other thing then their Father the Deuil meaneth when he goeth about to begyle man For then what doth he Vseth he not this policie to change his owggly hewe and put him selfe in goodly shape of an Angel of light 2. Cor. 11. For he is not vnwitting that if he shewed him selfe in his owne forme suche as he is euery one would flie from him and none lightly would be deceiued by him Heretikes doo the like Although they hate the Church neuer so deadly yet to haue the more opportunitie to hurt it pretend them selues to be of the Church Lo M. Iewel speaking of Heretiques in general and indefinitely I said their Father the Deuil not your Father the Deuil By this your vndue complaint you bewray your selfe as the Ratte doth oftentimes by his owne noise and euen so you seeme to acknowledge the Deuil for your Father and to enfeaffe your selfe of the estimation and opinion of an Heretique with whiche by me you were not charged The more you ought to beare with me if I happe to stumble vppon your right title hereafter With like reason good Reader I could easily discharge my selfe of the reste of the vehement and sharpe speaches obiected by M. Iewel but I accompte not the matter worth whereon to bestow so much labour This for that may suffice Now it may please thee to peruse that here foloweth and to consider whether M. Iewel be innocent him selfe in the pointes whereof he taketh occasion so immoderatly to reprooue his Aduersarie M. Iewel countercharged with the like sharpenesse and discourtesie of wordes as he reproueth in his Aduersarie The 3. Chapter BVT Sir tel me I pray you what is your iudgement touching these and the like vncourteous wordes and speaches as you cal them with whiche for the more part you vntruly burthen me Thinke you that in no case such manner of vtterance is lawful to be vsed If you thinke so you are deceiued M. Iewel The example of Christ Iohn Baptist the Prophetes the Apostles the ancient holy Fathers shew it to be lawful who as it is before rehersed in certaine cases vsed it so often Verely I doubt not but in this case I meane when a Catholike hath to conuince an Heretike it is most lawful yea not only lawful but also most expedient for causes aboue touched Neither in this case to vse such order of speache is to be accompted Discourtesie and Inciuilitie as your vnnecessarie Ciuilitie interpreteth but right zele and iuste seueritie That spirite of God which aduiseth vs by the mouth of the wise man Prou. 26. to answere a Foole according to his foolishnesse admonisheth vs no lesse in the treatie of Goddes causes with Heretiques to vse suche verdure of Language as may best represse the sawcinesse and pride of their stomakes Neuerthelesse if you thought such sharpe language to be vtterly vnlawful as a thing that may not stand with true modestie and ciuilitie how happed it that so often times you forgote your selfe It is no courteous dealing M. Iewel to reproue that in others that you so cōmonly do your selfe Touching bitter lāguage wherof so bitterly you complaine it may please you at your good leisure to cal to remembrance whose wordes among infinite others these are with what spirite what charitie what modestie they haue benne by you vttered Whiche wordes as for a great parte they haue the outwarde shew of no lesse heate and vehemencie then you note in mine so to any man of right iudgement they seeme to be of a farre more spite and malice A few principal flowers of M. Iewelles modest quiet and charitable speache vttered against the Catholikes taken as they came to sight out of his pretensed Defence founde partely in the Apologie partely in the texte of the said Defence some few also in the Margent FRantike Anabaptistes and Heretiques as ye be Defence 389. Ye Scribes ye Pharisees ye Hypocrites 625. Of the howse of God ye haue made a Caue of Theeues Defence Pag. 2. 304. Of the Churche you haue made a Caue of Theeues 48. The Temple now a daies is a denne of Theeues 706. The Churche they haue made a denne of Theeues 739. You haue blended Goddes wine with puddle water 66. You haue turned the beautie of Sion into the confusion of Babylon 2. Ye haue turned Goddes Temple into the Synagog of Sathan 328. They are without either shame of man or feare of God In the Preface to the Christian Reader They wilfully withstand the truth They be geuen ouer to mainteine lies In the Preface to the Christian Reader They are the children of vntruth They are the Children that wil not heare the law of God Your hote raging sprite 2. Leaue this Hypocrisie 377. The Iewes your ancient Fathers 632. Your Fathers the Phariseis 2. Your forefathers the Phariseis 31 Your fathers cried out what shal we do c. Ioan. 12. 327. S. Hierome said of your fathers non tam indigneutur c. In Sophon c. 3. 328. Ye confesse Scribes and Phariseis to be your fathers 625. Your fathers cried out against Christe Nos legem habemus 484. Christe was called a Samaritane by your auncient Fathers 631. This is very the leauen of the Scribes and Phariseis 66. For malice they depraue our sayinges 23. Your Idolatrous and blasphemous fondnesse 290. They batter vs with lies 23. In spite of the Popes 33. The Popes blinde preiudices 40. The Pope his Cardinalles his Bishoppes sleape and do nothing In the Preface to the Reader The Popes flattering Parasites 160. One of the Popes soothing Pages and Clawbackes 329. The Church of Rome is the very harlot of Babylon and rowe of Deuilles 453. The Canonistes be the Popes Parasites 722. The Tyrannie of the Bishoppes of Rome 457. The Popes Barbarous Persianlike Pride Ibidem The Church of Rome is nothing elles but a mother of falshod and schoole of Pride 609. Idolatrie is in the Churche of Rome 628. 629. The Pope vseth neither Gods worde nor discipline 550. The Churche of Rome hath most shamefully and wickedly erred 565. The Pope speaketh