Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	father_n	spirit_n	worship_v	16,413	5	10.3152	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A12472	The doctrine of praier in generall for all men, that is, vniuersally for all mankind: Proued 1. By the true sence of the words if the Apostle 1. Tim 2. 2. By the reasons, why all men in that since should be praid for. 3. By the doctrine establishing such praier. 4. By the practises of churches, concerning that kind of praier. 5. By the obiections, ansuered. Against the position of those that say and preach, that all men are not to be praid for. By I. Smith, minister of Gods word at Reading.	Smith, John, minister at Reading.; Smith, John, 1563-1616.	1595 (1595)	STC 22797; ESTC S102599	80,671	127

it were so many tyrants oppressors and euen sworne enemies of Christ and of the professors of his holie name The Apostle therefore euen meeteth with this scruple bidding them also to pray for them For surely the wickednesse of men can not cause or worke any thing but that neuerthelesse the ordinance of the Lord is to bee loued and praied for And kings and magistrates are ordained of God For euerie power is of God yea euen the wicked Rulers and gouernors are giuen for the sinnes of the people and his iudgements hanging ouer their heades Now in that he saith For kings and for al that are in authoritie might be good matter found and arguments drawne for the defence of the cause and Praier as wee haue set downe For I doe not thinke that verier Reprobates haue liued since the ascention of the Lord then haue beene some contained in this clause where it is said Kings and all that are in authoritie whome the Church from time to time hath praied for And yet as most wicked rebels and apostataes haue fallen away or haue quite renounced or neuer receiued or more cruelly persecuted or more feare●ully beene blinded from the waies of the truth and the light of the Lord which liueth and lasteth for euer But because the matter hereof is comprehended in this That praier is to be made for All mankind vniuersally and that such like arguments are comprehended therein Therefore I surcease vpon such occasions and goe forward to my prefixed article and point which is to shew the Reasons why praier should bee made for all men in generall beginning with the Apostle Saint Paule in the third verse aboue who giueth this reason For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour who will that All men shall be saued and come to the acknowledging of the truth This reason conteineth two thinges The one that this kind of praier for mankind and for all men is pleasing to God the other thing is a consequent thereof shewing that it is his will that all men should be saued and come to the knowledge of the truth And therefore such a praier is pleasing vnto God and agreeable vnto his will The first part For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour A good God is not pleased but with good things he is pleased with this praier this praier therfore is a good worke a good thing Early in the morning will I direct my praier vnto thee and will looke vp for thou art the God that hast no pleasure in wickednes neither shall any euill dwell with thee truely hee is kind and louing vnto Israell euen vnto such as are of a cleane heart Bee thankfull vnto him therefore and speake good of his name for the Lord is gracious his mercie is euerlasting and his truth indureth from generation to generation It is also acceptable that is wel pleasing yea it pleaseth him better then a bullocke that hath hornes and hoofes Thinkest thou that I wil eat buls flesh and drink the blood of goates Offer vnto God thankesgiuing Who so offereth me thanks and praise he honoreth me Thou delightest not in burnt offerings the sacrifice to God is a troubled spirit The Lord said vnto Salomon ask what thou wilt that I may giue it thee Salomon said giue thy seruant an vnderstanding heart c. And this pleased the Lord well That he had desired this thing For it was to discerne righteously between brother and brother for the setting vp of iustice and iudgement and for the preseruation of his people So intreat God for his people yea and for all mankind count it not a charitie in praier more then God requireth say not it is a superfluous and foolish charitie to doe it For it is the Lords commandment and such kind of praier is good pleasing and acceptable in his sight and he shall heare it and it shall returne into my owne bosome And this much for the first clause or part The consequent of the reason is a describing of the will of God to be applied vnto thy praier wherby thou shalt know that thou seruest him For hee that calleth vpon him according to his will serueth him And the words be these Who will that All men shall be saued and come to the acknowledging of his truth Some take these words and make them absolute of themselues and apply vnto them sundrie significations according as they may bee taken in diuinitie or according as in some sence and in some respect this way or that way they may be interpreted but that is not much pertinent to this matter For the words are respectiue and are the cheife clause and weight of the reason giuen by the holy ghost establishing that praier For the exhortation concerning this rule of praier consisteth of three parts A proposition the end and effect and a reason The proposition Let praier be made for all men The end and effect That we may lead a quiet life in all godlines c. The reason Thou wilt say Why so and wherfore the holy ghost informeth thee For that is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour And he confirmeth that by his will who will haue all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the truth as if he should say Therefore is it good and acceptable in his sight because he would haue no man cast away but be saued because he would haue no man ignorant of him but all to come to the knowledge of his truth he will not the death of a sinner but rather that he should conuert and liue We need not be afraid to vnderstand the Apostles words I doubt not but the Apostle knew what he wrote for he had a good teacher Let vs therefore take them according to the mind of the teacher And since his mercie stretcheth vnto All men let vs hope and pray that we may be of that number that may receiue and enioy such his mercies laid vp in store for them that loue him But least I may seeme to speake some vnnecessarie thing let me shew by other places of scripture my further meaning and whether the reason of any doctrine or scripture be so necessarie or no or whether I haue spoken cleane from the purpose First then we read in S. Mathew While thoughts did arise in the heart of Ioseph it was said vnto him of the Angell Feare not to take to thee Mary thy wife the reason wherewithal he is confirmed is for that which is conceiued in her is of the holie ghost Againe thou shalt call his name Iesus The reason For he shal saue his people from their sins againe He that abideth in me and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit The reason For without me can ye doe nothing Againe the true worshippers shal worship the father in spirit and truth The reason For the father requireth euen

such to worship him Again Ye know not of what spirit ye are The reason For the son of man is not come to destroy mens liues but to saue them c. Againe But there are some of you that beleeue not The reason For Iesus knew from the beginning which they were that beleeued not and who should betray him Wee see in these few as in many how notablie the spirit of the Lord doth suggest a reason proper to the thing that is handled for the further instruction comfort and edifying of his children As if he should say in plaine words search the scriptures For in them ye think to haue eternall life and they are they that testifie of me A reason most notably encouraging the seruants of the Lord to seeke for eternall life and to seeke to know Christ in the scriptures So here in hand at this time Pray for all men For it is acceptable to God who wil haue all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the truth A reason setting forth the pleasure of God that before him such a praier is accepted that he will the same too that they pray that is All men to be saued and to know the truth Then wee see euen from the instruction of the spirit of the Lord That these words yeeld a reason p●oper vnto the proposition which they confirme And therefore haue therein their owne proper sence which what it is I wil by the grace of God search forth after the mind of the best writers Neither will I goe to the right hand or to the left but will declare the truth herein And howsoeuer men haue iudged of me herein I esteeme not the cause is Gods Who will haue all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the truth In speaking concerning the will of God S. Augustine hath a good saying for vs to consider Ne● iniquè aliquid facit nèc nisi volens quicquam facit omnia quaecunque vult facit That is neither doth God any thing vniustly neither doth he any thing but of his good will and all things whatsoeuer he will that he doth And againe Omnipotentis voluntas dei semper inuicta est quae mala esse nunquam potest The wil of the almightie God is alwaies inuincible which neuer can bee amisse or euill To which purpose Caluin noteth vpon this place After that saith he the Apostle had taught that that thing was profitable which he commanded now he setteth downe a more forcible argument that is that it is pleasing vnto God Nam vbi constat de eius voluntate instar omnium rationum nobis esse debet That is For where the matter is knowne to be the certaine will of God that ought to be vnto vs in stead of all other reasons whatsoeuer Quia autem dei voluntas regula est ad quam exigenda sunt officianostra omnia Because indeed The will of God is a rule by which all our duties and doings are to be squared and tried God therefore doth nothing vniustly he doth what he will That his will is alwaies iust and true It is the rule of our actions It is in stead of all other reasons vnto vs that may be giuen Thus much being spoken of the constant will of God we will goe forward and come more neare vnto the matter First therefore Chrysostome vpon these wordes of Timothie thus writeth Hoc enim bonum acceptum est inquit coram saluatore nostro Deo Quid illud est orare prò omnibus hoc suscepit deus hoc iubet Qui omnes homines vult saluos fieri ad agnitionem veritatis venire Imitare Deum tuum Si omnes ille vult saluos fieri merito prò omnibus oportet orare Si omnes ipse saluos fieri cupit illius tu concorda voluntati c. For this is good and acceptable saith hee before our Sauiour God What is that To pray for all men This God warranteth This God commandeth who will haue all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the truth Imitate thou thy God If hee will All men to bee saued of right wee must pray for all men If he desire all men to be saued vnto his will also be thou conformable Thus he saith Imitate thy God desire as he desieth If he will haue all men to be saued pray thou for it This holy father seeketh not out anie strange sense anie other way He biddeth thee doe as God willeth Saint Ambrose thus writeth Si Deus vtique qui omnipotens dicitur omnes homines saluos vult fieri cur non impletur eius voluntas Sed in omni loq●utione sensus est Conditio latet vnde dicit Petrus Apostolus omnis scriptura indiget interpretatione vult enim Deus omnes saluos fieri sed si accedant ad eum Non enim sic vult vt nolentes saluentur sed vult illos saluari si ipsi velint Nam vtique qui legem omnibus dedit nullum excepit à salute Nunquid non Medicus idcircò proponit in publico vt omnes se ostendat velle saluare si tamen ab aegris requiratur c. If surely God who is called omnipotent will haue all men to be saued why is not his will fulfilled But in euerie speech there is his owne proper sense The condition lieth hid Wherevpon saith the Apostle Saint Peter Euerie Scripture hath need of his interpretation For God will haue all men to be saued but so that they draw neare vnto him For he so wil not That ill-willing and refusers be saued but will them to be saued if they themselues bee willing For sure hee that gaue a law for all hath excepted no man frō health and saluation Doth not the Phisition therefore make shew in publique place as that hee sheweth hee will heale all commers yet so as if he be sought for of the diseased c. This holy father respecteth the outward ministerie and the voice of the Gospell he derogateth nothing from the will of God God hath giuen health for all if they will come he is a Phisition for all if they will seeke him Saint Augustine hereof thus writeth Praeceperat enim Apostolus vt oraretur prò singulis hominibus specialiter addiderat prò regibus ijs qui in sublimitate sunt qui putari poterant fastu superbia seculari à fidei Christianae humilitate abhorrêre Proindè dicens Hoc enim bonum est coram saluatore nostro deo id est vt etiam prò talibus oretur statim vt desperationem tolleret addidit Qui omnes homines vuls saluos fieri in agnitionem veritatis venire Hoc quippe Deus bonum iudicauit vt orationibus humilium dignaretur salutem praestare sublimium For the Apostle had commanded that praier should bee made for euerie man and especially he added for Kings and such as

whom we pray both publikely and priuately as our sauiour taught vs in that praier which w●e call the Lords praier Giue vs this day our daily bread Forgiue vs our trespasses Lead vs not into tempta●ion But deliuer vs from euill So we see to pray for our selues for the subiects for oth●rs are large tearmes shut out no body But for so much as wee now speake of the Lords praier it shall not be amisse somewhat to say therof and to see what good doctrine to our purpose may bee gathered therefrom First therefore concerning that praier S. Ciprian saith thus Quae enim potest esse magis spiritualis oratio quam quae à Christo nobis data est à quo nobis spiritus sanctus missus est Quae vera magis apud patrem praecatio quam quae à filio qui est veritas de eius ore prolata est For what more spiritual praier may there be thē that which is giuen to vs of Christ from whom also the holy ghost is sent vnto vs What more true praier in the fathers presence then that which is from the sonne which is the truth and was spoken by him or came forth of his mouth S. Augustine writing to Vitalis thus saith Orationem dominicam nosti nec dubito te deo dicere pater noster qui es in coelis lege ●xpositerem eius beatissimum Ciprianum quemadmodum exposuerit quod ibi dicitur fiat voluntas tua sicut in coelo in terra diligenter attende obedienter intellige profecto docebit te ●rare prò infidelibus inimicis ecclesiae secundum praeceptum domini dicentis orate pro inimicis vestris hoc orate vt fiat voluntas dei sicut in eis qui iam fideles sunt portant imaginē calestis hominis propterea caeli nomine digni sunt ita in eis qui per infidelitatem non nisi imaginem terreni hominis portant ob hoc terra merito nuncupantur The Lords praie● thou knowst And I doubt not but thou saiest it to God Our father which art in heauen c. Read blessed Cyprian the expositer thereof and how he hath expounded those words where it is said Thy wil be done in earth as it is in heauen c. Diligently attend and obediently vnderstand Surely he will teach thee to pray for the infidell enemies of the Church according to the commandement of the Lord saying Pray for your enemies And this thing pray that the will of God may be done as in them which now are faithfull and beare the image of the heauenly man and for that cause are thought worthie of the name of heauen So likewise in them which through infidelitie beare none other but the image of the earthly man and for this cause are worthily called earth And it followeth Vt ipsis etiam poscamus fidem quam fideles habent That we may require of God such faith for them as the faithfull haue As if he should say Thy will bee done in these infidell enemies of the Church That in such sort as the faithful do they may come home to the faith and praise thy name He calleth them earth which phrase also the scripture fauoureth As For he commeth for he commeth to iudge the earth Thou art earth Hearken O earth Sing praises thou earth meaning herein mankind dwelling on earth That being estranged from God and bearing the image of the earthly man they might be conuerted and know the Lord. And vpon this petition master Caluin saith thus Inbemur ergo optare Sicùt in coelo nihil geritur nisi ex d●i nutu placedeque Angeli ad omnem rectitudinem compositi sunt Sic terram omni contumacia prauitate extincta eiusmodi imperio subigi We are therefore commaunded to desire As in heauen nothing is done but at the Lords commandement and that the Angels of God in readie sort are set to his direction and gouernment So likewise that the earth all stubbornnesse and wickedn●sse extinguished may in like gouernement and empire bee brought vnder and be subiected vnto him So should we be zealous on the Lordes behalfe That wee must pray That all may know him that all may obey him And Chrisostome noteth herevpon Et ru●sus communem omnium curam vnumquemque orantium suscipere praecepit Nòn enim aixit Fiat in me vel in nobis voluntas tua sed prorsùs vbique terrarum Vt scilicèt eradicetur error veritas inseratur atque vndique vitijs explosis virtus reuertatur Inque illius cultu nihil prorsus terra distet à coelo And againe he hath commaunded euerie one that praieth to take in hand a care common to all For he said not Let thy will be done in me or in vs but altogither euerie where on earth That surely errour may bee rooted out and the truth may be graffed in and on all sides vices being put to flight vertue may returne And that in worship belonging to God The earth may nothing at all differ from heauen So that for the glorie of God hee that praieth must put on a care common to all And againe master Caluin Sed hic iubemur alio modo precari vt siat eius voluntas nempè vt placidè ac sinè repugnantia illi obtemperent omnes creaturae Quod ex comparatione meliùs liquet Nam sicùti Angelos c. But here wee are commaunded to pray in another sort That his will may bee done that is that in readie so●t and without resistance all creatures may obey him which thing better appeareth by a comparison For as he hath his Angels readie at all his commaundements wherevpon they are called his ministers alway readie in his obedience and seruice So desire we that the willes of all men may be fashioned into such a consent of Gods iustice that of their owne accord they yeeld themselues whither so euer he calleth them And sure this is a godly praier when we submit our selues to the will of God and like the things that please him But this praier containeth yet some thing further that is that God all stubbornnesse of man which ceaseth not to rebell against him being abolished and driuen away That I say God would make them tractable and humble That they wil and desire nothing but that may please him and be to his liking Lastly Saint Cyprian hath thus againe Antè omnia pacis doctor atque vnanimitatis magister singulatìm noluit priuatìm prccem fieri vt quis cum precatur pròse tantum precetur Nòn dicimus pater meus qui in coelis es nec panem meum da mihi hodiè nec dimitti sibi tantum vnusquisque delicta postulat aùt vt in tentationem non inducatur atque à malo liberetur prò se solo rogat publica est nobis communis oratio vt quando oramus non prò vno sed pro populo toto

authoritie that wee may lead a quiet life in all godlinesse and honestie Hitherto haue we spoken concerning the praiers of the Church Namely of the Lords praier and of the rule of the Apostle set vp vsed and followed and that they comprehend in them the hearty desires of the Church and Gods children for the propagation of the Gospell the conuersion of mankind That all nations may vnderstand and see the saluation of our God Now then these things being so and that the praier of the sonne of God was of such account as to bee repeated in the Church and the rule of the Apostle obserued alike with all fidelitie how dare some amongst vs say That the Lords praier is not to be said or not to be repeated The Lord saith Pray thus The Apostles did as he commaunded The Church of God customably praieth it and we in these latter daies come and disdaine the same On the other side Saint Paules rule to pray for all men A rule of publique praier in the Church of God from the Apostles And we in these latter dayes say All men are not to be praied for Thus wee fleete and are carried about with euerie blast of doctrine not searching the causes or foundations thereof Now therefore say After these examples thus shewed and practised by the Fathers how should the Church of England haue set downe her publique praiers Truely to answere vnto God learnedly for example vnto others faithfully for the edifying of simple ones How I say should they religiously haue set them downe for those purposes if they had not followed the example of Christ of the Apostles and of the Fathers walking in their steppes And therefore I do verily thinke that the holy and reuerend Fathers so setting them downe as in our common praier booke appeareth sawe farre more into the state of the primatiue Church and so successiuely in the church of God then many a one that reprehendeth or findeth fault in these dayes We end the ministration of the Sacrament of the holy Supper of our Lord and the Sacrament of holy Baptisme with the Lords praier Haue not the Fathers receiued it by practise Saith not Saint Augustine as it is before speaking of the Sacrament Quam totam petitionem ferè omnis ecclesia dominica oratione concludit All which petition the whole Church almost concludeth with the Lords praier And haue not they discharged themselues like good men in following the patterne of the ancient Church and of the Church of God Againe we pray in the Let●nie That it would please thee to haue mercie vpon All men Also we pray Haue mercie vpon All Iewes Turkes Infidels and heretikes c. Doth not the Lord so commaund to pray for our enemies to pray for them that persecute vs Saith not Saint Paul Pray for all men Shall not this bee a rule for Gods Church as long as we liue Nescie●tes quis ad numerum praedestinatorum quis ad sortem reproborum pertineat sic affici debemus charitatis affectu vt velimus omnes saluari ideo omnibus fraternae correptionis debemus affectum imp●ndere sub spe diuini auxilij We not knowing who b●longeth to the number of the predestinate and who belongeth to the lot of the reprobate should so be touched with the affection of loue as that wee would A●l men should bee saued and therefore we must bestow the affection of brotherly reproouing vpon all vnder hope of the heauenlie and diuine helpe of God And if we be to bestow the affection of brotherly reprouing or chasticement then our praier also and what so euer may further the good and amendment of our neighbours and brethren Also ●fter the reading of the Gospel we read thus For the whole state of Christs Church c. Almightie and euerliuing God which by thy holy Apostle hast taught vs to make praiers and supplications and to giue thanks for Al men c. Is not this after the rule of the Apostle and according to the example of S. Augustine in the place aboue cited how then are these things so much misliked that some when they minister the Sacraments or doe preach leaue out the Lords praier as vnworthy to stand there or too childi●h to be said Othersome by no meanes will pray for All men When Saul pursued Dauid and that Dauid now had pleaded his innocencie that Saul could not denie the same Then Da●id said After whom dost thou pursue After a dead dog and after a flee the Lord therefore be iudge and iudge betwixt thee and mee and see and plead my cause c. So it seemeth to me that this rule of the Apostle speak●th against them The Lord plead my cause betwixt you and me th●t haue brought in errors disquieted the church and abused the people infond opinions After the time of the fathers aboue mentioned the praiers of the church began to be corrupt and as I read Pontificiorum historiae narrant inuocationem sanctorum additam insertam esse litaniae à Gregorio Magno circà annum dom 600. The histories of the Popes doe shew that inuocation of the saints added and inserted to the Letanie by Gregorie the great about the yeare sixe hund●ed T●erfore let vs looke into the practise of the reform●tion of our daies and let v● see how much vnlike vnto the church of England in this point they are or whether they agree in one or no. First therefore there is a booke whose title is thus The forme of praiers and ministration of the sacramen●s c. Vsed in the English church at Geneua approued and ●eceiued by the church of Scotland c. Print●d at Edenbur●h 1565. In that booke there is a praier named For the whole state of Christs church and therein we read thus Furthermo●e for as much as by the holy Apostle wee bee taught to make our praiers and supplications for All men we pray not on●ly for our selues here present but beseech thee ●lso to reduce all such as be yet ignorant from the miserabl● captiuitie of blindnes and error to the pure vnderstanding of thy heauenly truth That we all with one consent and vnitie of minds may worship thee our only God and sauiour The very same words ye read in the Geneua English with this title Approued by the famous and godly learned man M. Iohn Caluin Printed at Geneua 1556. The very same words ye read in a booke of the form of Common Praiers administration of the sacraments agreeable to Gods word and the vse of reformed churches Printed at Midleburgh 1587. Secondly the church of Scotland in a praier called Another manner of praier after the sermon yee ●ead thus Moreouer we make our praiers vnto thee O Lord most mercifull father for Al men in generall that as thou wilt be knowne to be the sauiour of all the world by the redemption purchased by thine only son Iesus Christ euen so that such as haue

ben hitherto holden captiue in darknes and ignorance for lacke of the knowledge of thy gospell may through the preaching thereof and the cleare light of thy holy spirit bee brought into the right way of saluation These words the booke of reformed churches of Midleburgh aboue specified somewhat changeth saying Moreouer we make our praiers vnto thee O Lord God most mercifull father for All men that as thou wouldst haue all sorts of men saued and come to the knowledge of the truth so it may please thee that such as haue ben hetherto holden captiue in darkenes and ignorance for lacke of the knowledge of thy gospell may through the preaching thereof c. As aboue so haue we here the example of other reformed churches also all which we see keepe the Apostles rule pray for All men for al such as be yet ignorant for all men in generall for such as are captiue in darkenes and ignorance And sometime end the same their praiers with the Lords praier also So doe we behold praier for all men and euen the very Apostles rule in the church of God continued from time to time and thus much for the practise of the church The fift part The Obiections against it answered NOw we come to the fift and last place which is concerning the obiectiōs against this ancient publike charitable and religious praier of the church for vniuersall mankind which whosoeuer backbiteh or speaketh against he backbiteth and speaketh against the word of God and against the ancient order of praier of Gods church as sufficiently hath ben declared The first Obiection WE ought not to pray for all because All shall not bee saued The Answere We haue no such rule in scripture that saith wee ought not to pray for all but we haue a rule of S. Pauls that saith Pray for al men But a rule that saith Pray not for all men I find none such Him therefore that flatly inferreth a contradictiō against the scriptures of God the church of God ought to suspect For Christ wee know and Paule wee know but who is this That hee should set downe a rule against the Lord his God We may say vnto him as Moises said sometime to the presumptuous Ye take too much vpon you ye sons of Leui. Secondly the proposition here inferred hath his foundation in calling and in the outward seruice due vnto God in praier in his congregation vpon earth the conclusion or reason is drawen from the purpose of God in election and applied ioined therunto which ought not to be For from outward calling to secret election we may not reason Thirdly the Apostle preuenting all such cauelling teacheth vs to reason far better saieng Pray for all men For God will haue all men to bee saued The second Obiection IN mankind there are reprobates and we ought not to pray for reprobates The Answere The Lord in his C●mmission saith not Goe preach to elect and ●●probate bu● P●each the Gospell to ●uery creature he doth not ●●stinguish th●m to our hands but looketh for increase Againe We pray for the saluation of All whom w● know to be created to the image of God and vnto whom t●ere is the same nature with vs on the other side we leane the d●struction of those to Gods iudgem●nt whom h●e himselfe knoweth to be reprobat●s Lastly we say as maister Caluin saith Hunc illum s●ngulos optare debemus saluos esse atque ita complecti totum humanum genus quià nen dum distinguere licet electos à reprobis Wee ought to wish this man and the other man and so euery man to be saued and so comprehend All mankind For as yet we may not distinguish or seperate the elect from the reprobate The third Obiection OVr sauiour Christ saith I pray not for the world c. He would not pray for the wicked ones in the world Wee should do so to c. The Answere This praier of the Lord was particular vnto himselfe as the great shepheard of our soules and therefore not to be drawne into example of vs whereof is inough spoken before Againe as one noteth vpon the words Chr●stus vt deus homo nouit distinctè plenè qui quot essent saluandi qui etiam quot essent damnādi c. Christ as God and man both distinctly and fully knoweth who and how many should be saued who also and how manie should be damned Wee prostrate before his maiestie dare not speake or presume any such thing But let vs see how Christ hath praied and how he teacheth ●o pray for in the same Chapter he saieth I pray not for these alone but for them also which shall beleeue in me through their worde He praied not only for them which were pr●sent as in the ninth verse but also for them which were to come and should beleeue in him Also according to the prophesie long before of him he prayed for the transgressours So as we read in the Gospell hee fulfilled it saying Father forgiue them for they know not what they doe Vpon which words a learned Father saith Oblitus suorum malorum prò suis crucifixoribus id est prò nobis orat qui nostris peccatis illum crucifiximus Ignosce illis qui à nesciunt quid faciunt Hee forgetting his owne iniuries prayed for his Tormentors or crucifiers That is for vs who with our sinnes haue crucified him saying Father forgiue them for they know not what they doe And in this we are to follow the Lord in the other to know the Lord and in both to honour him The fourth Obiection IF it be lawfull to pray for the saluation of Reprobates Then is it lawfull to pray for Iudas and Saul and Esau of whom the Scriptures doe testifie That they bee reiected of the Lord. Iudas is called the lost child of perdition and a diuel Iohn 6. Esau is said to find no place to repentance Though he sought the blessing with teares Heb. 12. And of Saul the Lord himselfe in expresse words said that he had reiected him 2. Sam. 7. The Answere Let vs suppose that Esau Saul and Iudas were aliue and so first let vs speake of them Secondly of the Reprobates Of Esau first For yer the children were borne and when they had done neither good nor euill c. It was said vnto her The elder shall serue the yonger Now after this voice of the Lord concerning the children Let vs see whether the Church cast him off also as reiected of the Lord and vnworthie of his house vnworthie of their praier vnworthie of their companie First it is said And the boies grew Then it is said And Isaac loued Esau Then it is said Make me sauory meat that my soule may blesse thee or I die Surely master Caluin giueth this iudgement Consortes externa vocationis peraequè fuisse Esau Iacob vndè patet arcano dei consilio